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Smerconish
Free Speech Under Fire; George Floyd Killing Sparks National Conversation On Race; Looters Attack Groceries In Impoverished Neighborhoods; If And When There's A COVID-19 Vaccine, Will You Get It? Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 06, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Free speech under fire. I'm Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia. America is having trouble speaking just when we most need to have a national conversation and what's proving difficult is establishing new boundaries that don't completely shut down dialogue. In Sacramento, the NBA Kings play-by-play TV announcer was fired from his radio job and resigned from his TV role. Grant Napear caused a firestorm when responding to a tweet from NBA player DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins asked, "What's your take on Black Lives Matter?" Napear then replied, "All lives matter. Every single one," exclamation point.
Many cried foul including Chris Webber who said, "DeMarcus we know and have known who Grant is. The team knows as well. I've told them many times. They've seen it. They know who he is." There is a history here. Five years ago, Napear defended then L.A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling when he made racist comments. Napear said Sterling couldn't be racist because he'd hired Doc Rivers and Elgin Baylor. This time, Napear apologized.
Then there was Drew Brees. The New Orleans Saints quarterback initially said that kneeling during the National Anthem disrespects the flag, referencing Colin Kaepernick's sideline protests from 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW BREES, NFL QUARTERBACK, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America. When the National Anthem is played and when I look at the flag of the United States, I envision my two grandfathers who fought for this country during World War II, one in the Army and one in the Marine Corps, both risking their lives to protect our country and to try to make our country and this world a better place. So every time I stand with my hand over my heart looking at that flag and singing the National Anthem, that's what I think about and in many cases, it brings me to tears thinking about all that has been sacrificed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: Again, the response was immediate. Many athletes took issue, including LeBron James and Richard Sherman. Saints safety Malcolm Jenkins responded with a pair of Instagram videos, one of which he later deleted. Jenkins said this, quote, "We're done asking Drew and people who share your sentiments, who express those and push them throughout the world, the airwaves are the problem and it's unfortunate because I considered you a friend, I looked up to you, you're somebody who I had a great deal of respect for, but sometimes you should shut the F up."
Brees apologized via Instagram writing in part, "I take full responsibility and accountability. I recognize that I should do less talking and more listening and when the black community is talking about their pain, we all need to listen. For that, I'm very sorry and I ask your forgiveness.
Enter Ellen DeGeneres. She tweeted and deleted. What did she regret? Apparently saying this, quote, "Like so many of you, I am angry and I am sad people of color in this country have faced injustice for far too long. For things to change, things must change. We must commit ourselves to this change with conviction and love." Some objected to her use of people of color as a word choice. Others thought that she was milquetoast. Ellen then issued a tearful apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW": I know I'm not going to say the right thing. I know that there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be in disagreement with what I say, but I have a platform and I have a voice and I have always stood for equality. I have always wanted to be the voice for people who felt like they didn't have a voice because I know what that feels like and maybe you don't agree with how it's coming out, but you have to understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: Here in Philadelphia, Inga Saffron is the Pulitzer Prize winning architectural critic for "The Philadelphia Inquirer." She wrote a thoughtful essay which included this, "You can be appalled and heartbroken by our country's deadly racism and yet still quake at what the damage to downtown portends for Philadelphia. Racism is built on strong foundations. The momentary satisfaction of destroying a few buildings does nothing to remove those structures. All it does is weaken our city."
Unfortunately, her thoughtful analysis was initially accompanied by a headline which she did not write which said this, "Buildings Matter, Too." The newspaper issued an apology saying, "While no such comparison was intended, intent is ultimately irrelevant. An editor's attempt to capture a colonist's nuanced argument in a few words went horribly wrong and the resulting hurt and anger are plain."
"The New York Times" drew fire for publishing an essay from a sitting U.S. senator. Republican Tom Cotton wrote in support of the government using troops to quell rioting, saying in part, "Some elites have excused this orgy of violence in the spirit of radical chic, calling it an understandable response to the wrongful death of George Floyd. Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful law-abiding protestors, a majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn't be confused with bands of miscreants."
[09:05:01]
Protest of "The Times" having published Senator Cotton's thoughts came from both outside and inside "The New York Times." A number of employees expressed their disapproval of the piece. More than 800 staff signed a letter protesting its publication. One tweet came from "The New York Times" magazine writer Nikole Hannah-Jones saying, "I'll probably get in trouble for this, but to not say something would be immoral. As a black woman, as a journalist, as an American, I am deeply ashamed that we ran this."
Taking note from the sidelines, veteran journalist, multi Emmy Award winning broadcaster Jeff Greenfield weighed in. He said, "About Senator Cotton's op-ed in 'The New York Times,' if you don't want an op-ed page that prints views you strongly disagree with, you don't really want an op-ed page, you want a 'my-ed' page." For sharing his thoughts, Greenfield then became the brunt of enmity, including from "New York Times" opinion columnist Jamelle Bouie who replied saying this, "'Free and open discourse' carries an implicit 'within the accepted bounds of democratic society.'"
Now "The New York Times" has said it won't run Senator Cotton's essay in tomorrow's print edition as planned. By the way, I want to know what you think. Go to my website this hour at Smerconish.com. Answer this week's survey question. Should they be running it in Sunday's print edition?
Now here are my thoughts. If we choose to disengage, we'll fall into a trap established by those parties more interested in division than unity. Maybe we can learn thing or two from a viral video.
Emmanuel Acho is a former NFLer who this week published a nine-minute video titled, "How to Have an Uncomfortable Conversation With a Black Man." It's been viewed more than 6.5 million times. The video is simple in its presentation. It's just Acho looking straight into a camera, addressing from a black man's perspective such thorny issues as white privilege, systemic racism, white-on-black crime versus black-on-black crime and why can an African-American say the N-word when a white person never can? Here's a clip of what he had to say on that subject.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL ACHO, FORMER NFL PLAYER & SPORTS ANALYST: The N-word is synonymous with oppression, execution and subordination. Black people took something that was meant and originally used as evil and we turned it -- turned it into a term of endearment. So white people, I submit that you can't, shouldn't and nor should you ever have a desire to say that word whether quoting a rap song, a movie or anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: On my radio program this week, Acho told me why he made the video in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACHO: There is a clear racial divide. Let me stand in this gap and try to connect my white brothers and sisters, Michael, to my black brothers and sisters and it's obvious. It is so obvious, Michael, that my white brothers and sisters across America are ready to help. They just don't know how and so I wanted to give them a crash course on how.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: That's the lesson. Yes, this national conversation is long overdue, but beyond the talking, we need to listen, not shut out, even if it's sometimes uncomfortable. You don't need me to tell you emotions are raw, people are very upset, more raw, more upset than I've seen in my adult lifetime. People want to talk about it. That's good. Sometimes they choose the wrong words, words that strike others as horribly insensitive. In that raw moment, the backlash is instantaneous and it can be harsh. The harshness stills further dialog and we're all poorer for it.
Let's keep on talking. When the speaker airs, the listener should correct nicely. When the correction comes, the reply should be thoughtful. We not only need that form of constructive dialogue, we must have it. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Only through reasoned national discourse born from love, not hate, patience, not anger, can we achieve equal justice under law.
Joining me now to discuss, NBA legend, "Turner Sports" analyst Sir Charles Barkley. Charles, are we ready as a nation to have the kind of conversation that's necessary?
CHARLES BARKLEY, NBA HALL OF FAMER, TURNER SPORTS ANALYST: Well, we've been ready for a long time, Michael. You know, it's interesting listening to your message. You can't make everybody happy. No matter what you say, there are some people out there who are angry, evil, mean.
They're never going to listen and that's the one thing -- one of the reasons I never, never use social media. Everybody tries to play God, judge and jury. I'm never going to use social media for that aspect because it doesn't matter what you say. Some people just -- they just -- they got bad lives, so they're always going to be negative.
[09:10:02]
But we wanted to have this conversation for a long time, we need to have this conversation and I'm all in to anything you want to talk about.
SMERCONISH: So first start with your reaction to the killing of George Floyd, the resulting protests and the response by President Trump.
BARKLEY: Well, that was the first time -- first of all, it's stressful, stressful being black. You think about what we have been through just in the last three months. You saw the young man in Atlanta, Georgia who was shot who was out jogging. I mean, if you can't go out jogging without getting shot, that's just
sad. Secondly, you saw the young lady in New York screaming at the young black man because he told her to put our dog on a leash. She says no, I'm going to tell the police a black man is harassing me. That was her safety net.
And then you see Mr. Floyd. I think that was -- the reason everybody's so upset, we've heard about these incidents before, but this was the first time I think in my lifetime I've actually seen a personal die right before my eyes and you see this cop got his foot on his neck and he has his hands in his pocket like he's just sitting there chilling out and I think that, to me, was the most painful aspect, to hear this man begging for his life, telling people he can't breathe.
You got people standing there saying, telling him, hey, dude, he's telling you he can't breathe and I think just to see somebody die, to me, that was -- man, that was just so sad.
SMERCONISH: It also has to make you wonder, you reference the Ahmaud Arbery case in Georgia and of course the George Floyd case, where would we be, Charles, without the video? Because my hunch is without that video, it would have been the police officer in the Georgia case, the former cop's word, that would be accepted and none of us would be any the wiser.
BARKLEY: Well, I think that's what really frustrate black people all around. When you see stuff on videotape, that's the only proof you have and if you can't get justice when you have a videotape, you're never going to get justice. I mean, think about that. If you see what your eyes see on a videotape and there's no recourse judicially, you're going to say what do I have to do to be seen and heard? And that's the problem we all have with this situation.
SMERCONISH: The president said yesterday that the greatest thing for race relations is economic recovery. Is he right?
BARKLEY: Well, he's about 100 years behind, yes. First of all, you know, when people talk about black and white, it's really just about economics. You got all the poor, black people. They're in the worst neighborhoods, they're in the worst schools, so they're already behind the, quote-unquote, "eight ball" growing up.
So, you know, we got a lot of crime in our neighborhoods, some of it is obviously self imposed, but you have to realize if you put all these black people in bad neighborhoods and don't give them a quality education, they're never -- there's going to be some exceptions, athletically, entertainment wise, but the majority of them are not going to make it out of the hood.
SMERCONISH: Charles, Roger Goodell, I think I've got footage of this and I want to show it to you and everybody else. Roger Goodell representing the NFL yesterday took some ownership of the mishandling of Colin Kaepernick. Roll it if we've got it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROGER GOODELL, COMMISSIONER OF THE NFL: Around the country are emblematic of the centuries of silence, inequality and oppression of black players, coaches, fans and staff. We are listening. I am listening and I will be reaching out to players who have raised their voices and others on how we can improve and go forward for a better and more United NFL family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: What do you make of that reaction, Charles?
BARKLEY: Well, listen, when you run a $20 billion business, you have an opportunity to go back in these communities and make a difference. You know, listen, I'm not going to bash Roger Goodell, but, you know, Michael, two weeks ago, they were bribing teams to hire black coaches. I mean -- I mean, come on, let's be realistic. Two weeks ago, they were going to give you draft pick, which is basically bribing you to hire black coaches.
So the NFL has a long way to go. You know, same thing with college football. The lack of black coaches, but the NFL is -- the fact that they have to bribe teams to hire black people, that's a joke and that's really sad.
SMERCONISH: I respect your independent thinking. I love that I never know what I'm getting from Charles Barkley other than your take, not tethered to talking points. Talk to me about President Trump in the past week in the aftermath of George Floyd's killing.
BARKLEY: Well, you know, I guess I'm not going to bash the president. I'm not a fan of the president, but I'm not going to bash him because this thing started way before him, way before him.
[09:15:05]
To act like these three years he's been in office, he's responsible for everything, I think that's disingenuous. I will say this though. He's the President of the United States. He's supposed to look out for everybody, not black, not white, not Hispanic, not rich, not poor, not Jewish. He supposed to -- he's the President of the United States and I think you can fairly say he's done an awful job of trying to represent all parties, even going back to Charlottesville, Virginia.
But I think he's lost the fact that he's not -- he represents everybody in the United States and the truth of the matter is he doesn't try to build people together, he doesn't try to build an alliance and he's awful when it comes to the pandemic and when we talk about racism, he has not said anything amazing that make you think, OK, he was willing to listen. He has done nothing like that.
The first thing he should have said was I just saw a man get killed on national television. That cannot happen. That's all he had to say. No, instead he said no, if these guys out here looting and protesting, I'm going to bring in the military. He didn't say you know what, we cannot have a man killed by the cops on national television. I represent everybody in the United States and that's why I think he dropped the ball.
SMERCONISH: Charles, you know, we claim you as a Philly guy. I came into the studio this morning and I drove around the city hall apron. You know the lay of the land in Philadelphia and National Guardsmen are already in place because today will be a big day of protest not only in Philly, but all across the country. What is it you would say to those coming out to protest wherever they might be, big city, small town, today?
BARKLEY: Well, listen, I'm for protests. I'm never going to be for rioting and looting. I've always been against that, but march in peace, talk to each other. And the thing is, Michael, I think you have to really be careful when you're protesting because if it gets out of hand, one thing that scared me just watching TV the last few days about this pandemic that's still going on and when they are spraying tear gas into these crowds, obviously everybody's taking their masks off and coughing and coughing and coughing. So I think, listen, let's make sure all these protests are peaceful because the last thing we need is a big repeat of this coronavirus.
SMERCONISH: Just to circle back to where I began, I hope dialogue like this continues. What most concerns me beyond justice for George Floyd is that if people are shut down and are unwilling or afraid to have candid conversation, we'll never advance. Your final thought?
BARKLEY: Yes. Listen, you cannot worry what every fool on the internet says about you. Like I say, I never use social media, I never read social media. You know, you talked about Ellen DeGeneres, people complaining about something, you talk about the op-ed pieces. Listen, you cannot make everybody happy, but you know what you can do? You can do your part to be part of the solution. The only person you can control is you. That's the only person you can control.
SMERCONISH: Sir Charles, thank you as always.
BARKLEY: Hey, thank you for having me. Be safe.
SMERCONISH: I'll see you soon. What are your thoughts? Tweet me @Smerconish or go to my Facebook page. I'll read some responses during the course of the program. What do we have, Catherine? From Twitter, "You misunderstand free speech, Smerconish. It goes both ways. People are free to speak, employers and the public are free to reject statements. That is free speech as well."
Well, of course. Tania, I'm not asking you to accept the words, in this instance of Tom Cotton. My question is not do you agree with Senator Cotton. The question is is that a viewpoint that should at least be given an airing for consideration? It's a two-way street.
I totally agree with you, but the instances -- not all of them. The instances that I offered at the outset of the program are -- I mean, Ellen DeGeneres has to offer a tearful apology because what she said was milquetoast? I mean, come on. That's ridiculous. How willing do you think Ellen DeGeneres will be in the next instance to participate in conversation? And hers is a voice you want at the table. That's my premise. Remember, I want to know what you think. Go to my website at Smerconish.com. Answer this week's survey question. I just use this as an example, the Cotton example. Should "The Times" be running a United States senator's opinion in the Sunday print edition? They're not going to do it. Should they have?
Still to come, during the peak of unrest after the killing of George Floyd, this pickup truck rammed its way into a ShopRite in an impoverished community here in Philadelphia.
[09:20:01]
Returning its residents to life in a so-called "food desert," I visited the store to find out what happened.
And interestingly, woke up yesterday, I did, on the other side of America, literally. That's the name of Meek Mill's new hit song about racial inequality. I think you'll be interested in how the song ends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEEK MILL, RAPPER, CRIMINAL REFORM ADVOCATE: The first step, I would say, I grew up in America in a ruthless neighborhood where we were not protected by police. We grew up in ruthless environments, we grew up around murder. You see murder. You see seven people die a week, I think you would probably carry a gun yourself. Would you?
SMERCONISH: Yes, I probably would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:25:00]
SMERCONISH: Meek Mill just dropped what is the first protest song responding to the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd and there's an interesting twist to it which I'll explain. Meek's new song is "The Other Side of America." It paints a vivid picture of street life and addresses racial inequality and police brutality. He draws on his childhood and time spent in prison in 2017. Believe it or not, yours truly has a cameo. I didn't even know about it in advance. The song starts with an audio clip of Donald Trump's famous appeal to black voters, the "What have you got to lose?"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What do you have to lose? You're living in poverty, your schools are no good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: And it ends with this exchange that I had with Meek Mill on this program back in December of 2018.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MILL: If you grew up in my neighborhood, you see seven people die a week, I think you would probably carry a gun yourself. Would you?
SMERCONISH: Yes, I probably would. Yes.
MILL: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: So here's the back story as to how I ended up in the song and getting me, I guess, into "Rolling Stone" magazine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILL: The first step, I would say, I grew up in America in a ruthless neighborhood where we were not protected by police. We grew up in ruthless environments, we grew up around murder. You see murder. You see seven people die a week, I think you would probably carry a gun yourself. Would you?
SMERCONISH: Yes, I probably would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SMERCONISH: Of course there was nothing scripted when he was my guest. I certainly hadn't expected that he would turn the tables and ask me a question. What prompted it was me asking him to respond to a critic who said that he was not the ideal spokesman for criminal justice reform and as you heard, he painted a picture of his environment, which he does at length in this autobiographical new song.
While answering my question, he asked me if I'd carry a gun in the same situation and what immediately flashed through my mind was that I had done exactly that in suburbia. So there was no way that I could truthfully say that if instead I lived in the city, I would not have done so, which I guess is why that reply now ends the hot new song.
Up ahead, when they release a COVID vaccine, will you get it? Surprising results from a new survey. Also surprising was the way the results were described by the two news organizations who commissioned the poll.
And this truck rammed its way into the ShopRite here in Philadelphia. Looters trashed what had been a model store for urban working class neighborhoods.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please explain to me how this represents getting justice for George Floyd. Somebody explain to me how this represents getting justice for me getting beat up at 18. Somebody explain to me how this represents injustice for the inequality in the corporate world, for the inequality in our housing system, for the inequality in our community. Somebody explain this to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:32:15]
SMERCONISH: This is live footage from London where protests over the killing of George Floyd have literally jumped the pond. As I mentioned to Charles Barkley earlier in the program, today expected to be a major day of protests here in Philadelphia and, indeed, around the United States, but this is something that you're seeing or we're just seeing in the United Kingdom.
In the wake of the George Floyd killing countless stores around the country were ransacked and were looted. Here in Philadelphia among the victims were two of a chain of ShopRite stores that had been opened to help impoverished neighborhoods, one of which looters rammed open by driving a pickup truck through the barricaded doors.
During the 2008 presidential race, Barack Obama visited one of these stores was so impressed with how they helped the community that the owner Jeff Brown ended up being a policy adviser to Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" campaign fighting childhood obesity and was her guest at Obama's first State of the Union address in 2010. Brown is CEO and chairman of Brown's Super Stores. Six of his 12 markets are in former food deserts that lacked access to fresh produce.
He employs 2,500 people, mostly from local communities. Six hundred of them are formerly incarcerated. The urban stores' employees are 95 percent African-American. I visited Jeff Brown in his Fox Street branch as he supervised cleaning up after the aftermath.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF BROWN, FOUNDER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BROWN'S SUPER STORES, INCORPORATED: This store was broken into and looted and we really didn't get the police support we needed. Then the second night came around. We were trying to clean the store up and get it back open. And we had a much larger force of looters.
We had 12 or 15 workers --
SMERCONISH: OK.
BROWN: -- trying to get the store back in shape. And there were over 20 looters.
SMERCONISH: So they were outnumbered.
BROWN: They were outnumbered. And my guys are working people, not violent people. And they were really crazed, violent people here attacking the store. My people are inside scared to death.
SMERCONISH: Scared to death. I wouldn't blame them.
BROWN: And, you known, in the background, they have these almost little bombs that are going off constantly. And so when you're in the store you keep on hearing, boom, boom, boom! SMERCONISH: Are they throwing them for distraction?
BROWN: No. They're using them to bust into ATMs.
SMERCONISH: Oh, my -- they came equipped.
BROWN: It is extraordinarily intimidating. You feel like you're in a war zone. So now they're trying to use their truck to bust the second set of doors.
SMERCONISH: And do they succeed?
BROWN: They get in. Yes. They succeed enough to get in.
SMERCONISH: Was there one ring leader from what you can see or was it just a completely organic, unplanned assault?
BROWN: You know, the first night it seemed like there was a ring leader and a purpose to destroy the store.
[09:35:01]
And the second night it was just looters. They were here to steal.
My team had to go to the roof for their safety and repeated calls to police, no one came to their rescue. And they ultimately called the fire department to get a ladder, to get them off the roof.
I really didn't think this would happen to us because of our almost loving relationship with the members of this community. We have video of the looters and we don't recognize them and we don't think it was our customers.
SMERCONISH: I'm looking at what looks like a credit union or what is left of a credit union and some ATM machines that clearly were broken into. What can you tell me about this?
BROWN: This neighborhood was a food desert. And this was not only a food desert but they don't have banks. Often they don't have proper health care. And so when we built this store we designed it for this community to help the people that are suffering here.
One of the things we put in was a credit union that would allow them to have an account with no money. Because they won't need to go to a check cashing store then. And what the looters did is they attacked this tool that help people.
They destroyed all their machines. And as you could see, they were after money but they went way beyond money. They destroyed our ability to help people.
The first night actually they were after destruction. And they destroyed registers and our self-checkouts. The second night they came looking for cash, when they broke in again. And they destroyed all our self-checkouts. This is probably $300,000 in equipment here.
SMERCONISH: Was there cash in there?
BROWN: No. Because we knew that they were going to come so we took the cash out. They went after our safe. They worked for many hours trying to break into the safe and couldn't. But they destroyed it. And they destroyed all of the security equipment, cameras, computers.
SMERCONISH: I see you have a pharmacy as well. Was the pharmacy hit?
BROWN: Yes. So this store not only has a pharmacy but it has a health clinic because there isn't good access to health care in this area. And this health clinic is designed to serve the most needy patients. They have a sliding scale and they'll serve patients that are sick for $20.00. They smashed up the health clinic.
And this pharmacy was hit and they -- it took them time to break through the pharmacy because as you could see it is pretty well protected. And of course they were after narcotics.
SMERCONISH: Do you think that this was what they were most after?
BROWN: What they stole -- yes. This was one. Liquor because this store is wine and beer. Anything valuable. Diapers. Big detergents.
SMERCONISH: Not food.
BROWN: They weren't interested in $1.00 or $2.00 items. They came here to steal stuff to resell it. And some of the stores you see them like across the street trying to sell the stuff. And the police are rounding them up.
SMERCONISH: Tell me what caused you to get into this business.
BROWN: Well, I am a fourth generation grocer and my family has --
SMERCONISH: In the DNA?
BROWN: It's in our DNA and it is in Philadelphia and our family has served the poor for all four of those generations.
SMERCONISH: And so a store like this employs how many people?
BROWN: This store about 300 people, almost all from the neighborhood, and this store in particular, and the other store that was damaged, has been a very open employer, hiring a lot of formerly incarcerated people that don't want to go back to jail and we teach them the grocery business.
SMERCONISH: It's really a main street. It's not a supermarket, right? It is a health clinic, it's a pharmacy, it's a bank, it's a supermarket, all under one roof.
BROWN: We're absolutely committed to this community. And we don't blame the people that live here. I must have five or 10,000 messages from my customers in tears and heartbroken for what happened for two reasons. One, a lot of them have recited our 32 years of this work of how it made a difference in their lives and they can't live without it. And the second, they can't believe a person that has supported them for all this time would be attacked like this.
SMERCONISH: It looks relatively clean now as compared to the footage that I've seen from the news and from your cameras. So I imagine you've done a heck of a lot of cleanup already.
BROWN: Yes. Because what we're most focused on is not letting the victims of this community -- we're victims but my customers are victims and we didn't want them to suffer longer than they had to.
SMERCONISH: So these are the doors that I just saw the pickup truck back right through?
BROWN: That is correct. Yes. They drove right through this set of doors. You can see we repaired them. And then to the next set of doors.
SMERCONISH: Does it cause you any second thoughts about wanting to do business here?
BROWN: You know, the disappointment is that the police were just in over their heads and they couldn't protect us. I mean, I have the assumption that they'll be there when we need them. And it's unsettling that they weren't.
But I don't blame the people in this neighborhood. I think they were victimized like I am. And I'm compelled to be there for them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SMERCONISH: While the store was closed Brown donated food that would have spoiled to help feed the hungry. The good news is the Fox Street store opened Friday.
[09:40:01]
Brown's Parkside ShopRite will reopen on Monday.
Let's check in on your tweets and Facebook comments. From Facebook there is this.
"Michael, if the folks who live in those neighborhoods cared about that store they would not have looted it."
Kelly, you have a little bit of a trigger finger there. Maybe you fired off that Facebook comment before you heard the whole package. He doesn't blame the folks from that community. The folks from that community are the tens of thousands who responded via social media to him saying, hey, we're on your side in this. And it's a tragedy.
I want to remind you to answer the survey question at Smerconish.com. The "New York Times," there is this controversial essay that Senator Tom Cotton submitted to the "Times." They already ran it electronically. It caused huge blowback both outside and inside the "New York Times." Now they say they're not going to put it in the Sunday print edition. Should they? That is my question.
Still to come, when and if a COVID vaccine is approved, will you or won't you be lining up for yours? I know where I stand but I've been surprised at the mixed responses across the nation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:16]
SMERCONISH: Question, if and when there is a COVID-19 vaccine, will you get it? To me it is a no brainer. It is a hell yes answer. That is my initial reaction.
After what feels like months of political squabbling over hydroxychloroquine and face masks, a more traditional way to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 virus may be on the horizon. This week Dr. Anthony Fauci shared that -- quote -- "By the beginning of 2021, we hope to have a couple hundred million doses of" a coronavirus vaccine.
I was surprised to see the results of an ABC News/Washington Post survey which sampled American attitudes on the issue. Let's just say that the coverage was presented as glass half empty glass half full. Again, keep in mind that "ABC News" and "The Washington Post" were partners in the survey.
So how did they cover it? Well, the headline at "The Washington Post" was this, 7 in 10 Americans would be likely to get a coronavirus vaccine, poll finds. The one over at "ABC News"? Twenty-seven percent unlikely to be vaccinated against the coronavirus. Republicans, conservatives especially.
The publications' lead-ins aside I was shocked to see that nearly a quarter of Americans in the midst of a pandemic are uninterested in getting the vaccine. So who makes up the coalition of the unwilling? Well, Republican women, for one. A mix of groups expressed less interest in getting vaccinated, 46 percent of Republican women, 45 percent of very conservative Americans, 40 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of evangelical Christians.
First-hand experience with COVID-19 and its devastating medical and economic impacts appears to be a significant driver of vaccine favorability. Americans living in hard hit areas are especially likely to say they'd get the vaccine, 81 percent of people in U.S. counties with the most COVID-19 cases say so. Compared with 61 percent of those in counties with the fewest cases, 78 percent among northeasterners and urban residents versus 65 percent in the south and 63 percent in rural areas.
This week I solicited telephone calls on my SiriusXM radio program from people who have no intention of getting a COVID-19 vaccine. The results were not what I expected. The callers were not anti-vaxxers, they were not conspiracy theorists. Some were in health care. Many worried about both the efficacy and safety of something generated in such a rushed environment at warp speed as the president says. There are only two ways out of this pandemic. Herd immunity or a vaccine. And where attaining herd immunity seems a long way off and a vaccine seems we hope more in the short term, the latter will not solve our problem if nearly one-quarter won't get it. Because that one-quarter will pose a risk to the elderly and those with pre- existing conditions who are most vulnerable.
As we begin the process of reopening, public health officials must anticipate the concern of many. What good is it if a quarter won't get it?
We check in on your tweets and Facebook comments. This comes I think from Facebook. What do we have?
"Too rushed, waiting at this point for more information. Want to know what I'm getting into before I take it. Can't trust the administration to do the right vetting."
Well, Cyndi is typical of people I heard from. Not ascribing to some all vaccines are bad mentality or Area 51 conspiracy theories but people who say, I'm not sure. I'm going to need to be convinced that the efficacy and safety of it have been tested.
Still to come, your best and worst tweets and Facebook comments and we'll give you the final results on the survey question, that controversial Tom Cotton essay that ran electronically in the "New York Times." Should it have been put in Sunday's print edition? Go vote.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:53:43]
SMERCONISH: Time to see how you responded to the survey question at Smerconish.com.
"Should the New York Times run Sen. Tom Cotton's op-ed in Sunday's print edition?"
Survey says -- 65 percent -- wow. I must say I'm surprised with the outcome. I'm in the 65 percent. The two thirds of nearly -- well, 12,500.
Listen, I have to say, I'm not one of these who on the right is, oh, look at that liberal "New York Times" blah, blah, blah. I love the "Times." I probably read, on a daily basis, two dozen newspapers, not cover to cover but there's one that I touch and it's the "Times."
Every day there's something in the "Times" that speaks to me that I would not see in any other publication. And I am sympathetic to the mindset of those who work at the "Times" who say, Cotton could imperil black lives with what he's advocating. But it's not hate speech and they theirselves I think a disservice by saying that his viewpoint is not welcome here.
As Jeff Greenfield said, it's an op-ed page. And I want to go there and I want to read alternative points of view. Because as I said at the outset of the program in my opening commentary, we can't shut down.
[09:55:00]
When people say things that we deem to be offensive, we can't go into shutdown mode because those voices then will remain, better that they stay engaged in our conversation and we try and convince them that they are wrong.
One more, Catherine. What do we have? One more? I didn't even look at one yet.
Why aren't you wearing your mask and just wearing it around your neck at the grocery store, when you and the grocery store owners aren't standing 6 feet apart?
Alex, we had our masks, we wore our masks at different parts of the interview. We tried to maintain a distance. I think we did a pretty decent job doing so but we had the conversation. Because frankly when we were recording, we weren't being able to be heard. That's the honest answer.
Up next our "Sesame Street" friends are back on CNN to talk to kids about racism, the nationwide protests, and embracing diversity. Parents submit questions at CNN.com/sesamestreet "Coming Together: Standing Up to Racism." A CNN/Sesame Street town hall this morning at 10:00.
Thank you so much for watching. I'll see you in a week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:32:15]
SMERCONISH: This is live footage from London where protests over the killing of George Floyd have literally jumped the pond. As I mentioned to Charles Barkley earlier in the program, today expected to be a major day of protests here in Philadelphia and, indeed, around the United States, but this is something that you're seeing or we're just seeing in the United Kingdom.
In the wake of the George Floyd killing countless stores around the country were ransacked and were looted. Here in Philadelphia among the victims were two of a chain of ShopRite stores that had been opened to help impoverished neighborhoods, one of which looters rammed open by driving a pickup truck through the barricaded doors.
During the 2008 presidential race, Barack Obama visited one of these stores was so impressed with how they helped the community that the owner Jeff Brown ended up being a policy adviser to Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" campaign fighting childhood obesity and was her guest at Obama's first State of the Union address in 2010. Brown is CEO and chairman of Brown's Super Stores. Six of his 12 markets are in former food deserts that lacked access to fresh produce. He employs 2,500 people, mostly from local communities. Six hundred of them are formerly incarcerated. The urban stores' employees are 95 percent African-American. I visited Jeff Brown in his Fox Street branch as he supervised cleaning up after the aftermath.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF BROWN, FOUNDER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BROWN'S SUPER STORES, INCORPORATED: This store was broken into and looted and we really didn't get the police support we needed. Then the second night came around. We were trying to clean the store up and get it back open. And we had a much larger force of looters.
We had 12 or 15 workers --
SMERCONISH: OK.
BROWN: -- trying to get the store back in shape. And there were over 20 looters.
SMERCONISH: So they were outnumbered.
BROWN: They were outnumbered. And my guys are working people, not violent people. And they were really crazed, violent people here attacking the store. My people are inside scared to death.
SMERCONISH: Scared to death. I wouldn't blame them.
BROWN: And, you known, in the background, they have these almost little bombs that are going off constantly. And so when you're in the store you keep on hearing, boom, boom, boom!
SMERCONISH: Are they throwing them for distraction?
BROWN: No. They're using them to bust into ATMs.
SMERCONISH: Oh, my -- they came equipped.
BROWN: It is extraordinarily intimidating. You feel like you're in a war zone. So now they're trying to use their truck to bust the second set of doors.
SMERCONISH: And do they succeed?
BROWN: They get in. Yes. They succeed enough to get in.
SMERCONISH: Was there one ring leader from what you can see or was it just a completely organic, unplanned assault?
BROWN: You know, the first night it seemed like there was a ring leader and a purpose to destroy the store.
[09:35:01]
And the second night it was just looters. They were here to steal. My team had to go to the roof for their safety and repeated calls to police, no one came to their rescue. And they ultimately called the fire department to get a ladder, to get them off the roof.
I really didn't think this would happen to us because of our almost loving relationship with the members of this community. We have video of the looters and we don't recognize them and we don't think it was our customers.
SMERCONISH: I'm looking at what looks like a credit union or what is left of a credit union and some ATM machines that clearly were broken into. What can you tell me about this?
BROWN: This neighborhood was a food desert. And this was not only a food desert but they don't have banks. Often they don't have proper health care. And so when we built this store we designed it for this community to help the people that are suffering here.
One of the things we put in was a credit union that would allow them to have an account with no money. Because they won't need to go to a check cashing store then. And what the looters did is they attacked this tool that help people.
They destroyed all their machines. And as you could see, they were after money but they went way beyond money. They destroyed our ability to help people.
The first night actually they were after destruction. And they destroyed registers and our self-checkouts. The second night they came looking for cash, when they broke in again. And they destroyed all our self-checkouts. This is probably $300,000 in equipment here.
SMERCONISH: Was there cash in there?
BROWN: No. Because we knew that they were going to come so we took the cash out. They went after our safe. They worked for many hours trying to break into the safe and couldn't. But they destroyed it. And they destroyed all of the security equipment, cameras, computers.
SMERCONISH: I see you have a pharmacy as well. Was the pharmacy hit?
BROWN: Yes. So this store not only has a pharmacy but it has a health clinic because there isn't good access to health care in this area. And this health clinic is designed to serve the most needy patients. They have a sliding scale and they'll serve patients that are sick for $20.00. They smashed up the health clinic.
And this pharmacy was hit and they -- it took them time to break through the pharmacy because as you could see it is pretty well protected. And of course they were after narcotics.
SMERCONISH: Do you think that this was what they were most after?
BROWN: What they stole -- yes. This was one. Liquor because this store is wine and beer. Anything valuable. Diapers. Big detergents.
SMERCONISH: Not food.
BROWN: They weren't interested in $1.00 or $2.00 items. They came here to steal stuff to resell it. And some of the stores you see them like across the street trying to sell the stuff. And the police are rounding them up.
SMERCONISH: Tell me what caused you to get into this business.
BROWN: Well, I am a fourth generation grocer and my family has --
SMERCONISH: In the DNA?
BROWN: It's in our DNA and it is in Philadelphia and our family has served the poor for all four of those generations.
SMERCONISH: And so a store like this employs how many people?
BROWN: This store about 300 people, almost all from the neighborhood, and this store in particular, and the other store that was damaged, has been a very open employer, hiring a lot of formerly incarcerated people that don't want to go back to jail and we teach them the grocery business.
SMERCONISH: It's really a main street. It's not a supermarket, right? It is a health clinic, it's a pharmacy, it's a bank, it's a supermarket, all under one roof.
BROWN: We're absolutely committed to this community. And we don't blame the people that live here. I must have five or 10,000 messages from my customers in tears and heartbroken for what happened for two reasons.
One, a lot of them have recited our 32 years of this work of how it made a difference in their lives and they can't live without it. And the second, they can't believe a person that has supported them for all this time would be attacked like this.
SMERCONISH: It looks relatively clean now as compared to the footage that I've seen from the news and from your cameras. So I imagine you've done a heck of a lot of cleanup already.
BROWN: Yes. Because what we're most focused on is not letting the victims of this community -- we're victims but my customers are victims and we didn't want them to suffer longer than they had to.
SMERCONISH: So these are the doors that I just saw the pickup truck back right through?
BROWN: That is correct. Yes. They drove right through this set of doors. You can see we repaired them. And then to the next set of doors.
SMERCONISH: Does it cause you any second thoughts about wanting to do business here?
BROWN: You know, the disappointment is that the police were just in over their heads and they couldn't protect us. I mean, I have the assumption that they'll be there when we need them. And it's unsettling that they weren't.
But I don't blame the people in this neighborhood. I think they were victimized like I am. And I'm compelled to be there for them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SMERCONISH: While the store was closed Brown donated food that would have spoiled to help feed the hungry. The good news is the Fox Street store opened Friday.
[09:40:01]
Brown's Parkside ShopRite will reopen on Monday.
Let's check in on your tweets and Facebook comments. From Facebook there is this.
"Michael, if the folks who live in those neighborhoods cared about that store they would not have looted it."
Kelly, you have a little bit of a trigger finger there. Maybe you fired off that Facebook comment before you heard the whole package. He doesn't blame the folks from that community. The folks from that community are the tens of thousands who responded via social media to him saying, hey, we're on your side in this. And it's a tragedy.
I want to remind you to answer the survey question at Smerconish.com. The "New York Times," there is this controversial essay that Senator Tom Cotton submitted to the "Times." They already ran it electronically. It caused huge blowback both outside and inside the "New York Times." Now they say they're not going to put it in the Sunday print edition. Should they? That is my question.
Still to come, when and if a COVID vaccine is approved, will you or won't you be lining up for yours? I know where I stand but I've been surprised at the mixed responses across the nation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:16]
SMERCONISH: Question, if and when there is a COVID-19 vaccine, will you get it? To me it is a no brainer. It is a hell yes answer. That is my initial reaction.
After what feels like months of political squabbling over hydroxychloroquine and face masks, a more traditional way to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 virus may be on the horizon. This week Dr. Anthony Fauci shared that -- quote -- "By the beginning of 2021, we hope to have a couple hundred million doses of" a coronavirus vaccine.
I was surprised to see the results of an ABC News/Washington Post survey which sampled American attitudes on the issue. Let's just say that the coverage was presented as glass half empty glass half full. Again, keep in mind that "ABC News" and "The Washington Post" were partners in the survey.
So how did they cover it? Well, the headline at "The Washington Post" was this, 7 in 10 Americans would be likely to get a coronavirus vaccine, poll finds. The one over at "ABC News"? Twenty-seven percent unlikely to be vaccinated against the coronavirus. Republicans, conservatives especially.
The publications' lead-ins aside I was shocked to see that nearly a quarter of Americans in the midst of a pandemic are uninterested in getting the vaccine. So who makes up the coalition of the unwilling? Well, Republican women, for one. A mix of groups expressed less interest in getting vaccinated, 46 percent of Republican women, 45 percent of very conservative Americans, 40 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of evangelical Christians.
First-hand experience with COVID-19 and its devastating medical and economic impacts appears to be a significant driver of vaccine favorability. Americans living in hard hit areas are especially likely to say they'd get the vaccine, 81 percent of people in U.S. counties with the most COVID-19 cases say so. Compared with 61 percent of those in counties with the fewest cases, 78 percent among northeasterners and urban residents versus 65 percent in the south and 63 percent in rural areas.
This week I solicited telephone calls on my SiriusXM radio program from people who have no intention of getting a COVID-19 vaccine. The results were not what I expected. The callers were not anti-vaxxers, they were not conspiracy theorists. Some were in health care. Many worried about both the efficacy and safety of something generated in such a rushed environment at warp speed as the president says.
There are only two ways out of this pandemic. Herd immunity or a vaccine. And where attaining herd immunity seems a long way off and a vaccine seems we hope more in the short term, the latter will not solve our problem if nearly one-quarter won't get it. Because that one-quarter will pose a risk to the elderly and those with pre- existing conditions who are most vulnerable.
As we begin the process of reopening, public health officials must anticipate the concern of many. What good is it if a quarter won't get it?
We check in on your tweets and Facebook comments. This comes I think from Facebook. What do we have?
"Too rushed, waiting at this point for more information. Want to know what I'm getting into before I take it. Can't trust the administration to do the right vetting."
Well, Cyndi is typical of people I heard from. Not ascribing to some all vaccines are bad mentality or Area 51 conspiracy theories but people who say, I'm not sure. I'm going to need to be convinced that the efficacy and safety of it have been tested.
Still to come, your best and worst tweets and Facebook comments and we'll give you the final results on the survey question, that controversial Tom Cotton essay that ran electronically in the "New York Times." Should it have been put in Sunday's print edition? Go vote.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:53:43]
SMERCONISH: Time to see how you responded to the survey question at Smerconish.com.
"Should the New York Times run Sen. Tom Cotton's op-ed in Sunday's print edition?"
Survey says -- 65 percent -- wow. I must say I'm surprised with the outcome. I'm in the 65 percent. The two thirds of nearly -- well, 12,500.
Listen, I have to say, I'm not one of these who on the right is, oh, look at that liberal "New York Times" blah, blah, blah. I love the "Times." I probably read, on a daily basis, two dozen newspapers, not cover to cover but there's one that I touch and it's the "Times."
Every day there's something in the "Times" that speaks to me that I would not see in any other publication. And I am sympathetic to the mindset of those who work at the "Times" who say, Cotton could imperil black lives with what he's advocating. But it's not hate speech and they theirselves I think a disservice by saying that his viewpoint is not welcome here.
As Jeff Greenfield said, it's an op-ed page. And I want to go there and I want to read alternative points of view. Because as I said at the outset of the program in my opening commentary, we can't shut down.
[09:55:00]
When people say things that we deem to be offensive, we can't go into shutdown mode because those voices then will remain, better that they stay engaged in our conversation and we try and convince them that they are wrong.
One more, Catherine. What do we have? One more? I didn't even look at one yet.
Why aren't you wearing your mask and just wearing it around your neck at the grocery store, when you and the grocery store owners aren't standing 6 feet apart?
Alex, we had our masks, we wore our masks at different parts of the interview. We tried to maintain a distance. I think we did a pretty decent job doing so but we had the conversation. Because frankly when we were recording, we weren't being able to be heard. That's the honest answer.
Up next our "Sesame Street" friends are back on CNN to talk to kids about racism, the nationwide protests, and embracing diversity. Parents submit questions at CNN.com/sesamestreet "Coming Together: Standing Up to Racism." A CNN/Sesame Street town hall this morning at 10:00.
Thank you so much for watching. I'll see you in a week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
