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ISIS Claims Responsibility For Attack At Concert Venue Near Moscow; Princess Catherine Reveals Cancer Diagnosis; Will Billions From Truth Social Deal Help Money Crunch?; "New York Times," Car Technology Can Report Your Driving Habits To Insurers; Gallup: Young Americans Are Far Less Happy. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 23, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:16]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this Saturday morning, I'm Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia. Russian authorities have suspects in custody for a terror attack near Moscow that killed more than 100 people with ISIS claiming responsibility. And Catherine, Princess of Wales, getting international messages of support after revealing her cancer diagnosis.

First, Russia says nearly a dozen people have been detained in connection with Friday night's terror attack and a popular concert hall that killed at least 115 people. A warning the video we're about to show is disturbing. Witnesses captured our men in camouflage opening fire with automatic weapons at the Crocus City Hall concert venue west of Moscow which seats 6,000. As people ran screaming or hit from gunshots, the attackers then threw an incendiary device, which ignited a fire which is still burning. Russian authorities say four of those detained were directly involved in the attack.

ISIS has claimed responsibility but Russia is alleging involvement by Ukraine. Ukraine in turn is blaming the attack on Russian special services. The attack came just days after President Putin's landslide reelection to another six year term. And days after the U.S. Embassy in Russia had warned Americans to avoid large gatherings, citing reports that extremists were planning attacks. In a video statement released today, Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed deep condolences following the Moscow shooting, calling it barbaric and a terror attack.

For the very latest I'm joined by CNN Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen reporting live from Berlin.

Fred, have Russian officials provided any evidence to back up these claims against Ukraine?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they put all this down to their investigative authorities. I was actually just watching that address by Vladimir Putin where he offered his condolences. But they also said that the initial indications are that there might be some sort of link to Ukraine, and that possibly those perpetrators were trying to get away to Ukraine. So this is now being pushed by the highest levels in the Russian state by Vladimir Putin.

The other information the Russians are putting out, they put down to their investigative committee, they say they apprehended these men as they were trying to escape to Ukraine or towards the Ukrainian border. They say they all this happened in a place called Bryansk, a region called Bryansk, which is very close to the Ukrainian border. The Russians are saying that they apprehended 11 people, including the four shooters who actually went into that concert venue hall and shot the place up but then also seven other people who allegedly were supporting the terrorists so they said.

Now, they said that these people allegedly had what they call relevant contacts in Ukraine. So we do see the Russians apparently trying to push that narrative that there is some sort of link to Ukraine. But you're absolutely right to point out that the Ukrainians on several levels now, we've been looking very closely at this, are saying that they have absolutely nothing to do with it, Michael.

SMERCONISH: Fred, the U.S. and Russia are at odds, obviously on Ukraine, some say fighting a proxy war. But are they nevertheless, the U.S. and Russia, united against ISIS?

PLEITGEN: Well, yes, it's a really interesting question. It's actually something that I've been looking at over the past couple of years, especially when it came to, for instance, the war in Syria where of course, you had the U.S. on one side supporting some of the Syrian opposition groups and the Russians supporting Bashar al-Assad. But nevertheless, both of them were actually fighting against ISIS. In fact, that was once on the ground in a place called Deir ez-Zor, which is way in the Syrian dessert where the U.S. was bombing ISIS there and the Russians were supporting some of Assad's ground forces. So, in certain areas where it was made operational sense, they were on the same side as far as that's concerned.

But of course, on a political level, you did in various occasions have both the U.S. and Russia blame each other for allegedly not fighting hard enough against ISIS.

Now, the ISIS group that we're possibly talking about here is one called ISIS-K or ISIS Khorasan, which is actually normally situated in the Afghanistan area. We do know, of course, that inside Russia, there are a lot of people from Central Asia, a Muslim population, some of whom had become radicalized in the past couple of decades, really, since the Chechen War. So whether or not this has anything to do with that is very difficult to say. We have that claim of responsibility right now. We have the U.S. saying they have no doubt or they have no reason to doubt that claim of responsibility, but so far, the Russians not even mentioning ISIS at all.

SMERCONISH: And finally, did Russia ignore the warning that the U.S. provided or just not publicly acknowledged that warning?

PLEITGEN: You know, I think it's even more than that. I'm not sure if they didn't even ignore it just that. Vladimir Putin even came out and said that that was propaganda and that was the U.S. was trying to blackmail Russia by putting that warning out there. [09:05:01]

It was on March 7 that the U.S. Embassy in Moscow said, look, there are -- is a serious terror threat and there could be possible attacks, specifically mentioning concert venues. And then three days before the attack happened, Vladimir Putin came out in an address to his own intelligence services, through the FSB, came out and said that he believed that the U.S. was putting this out there for political reasons and then three days later, you had that attack take place.

One of the things that we do need to point out is that at venues like this, and I've been at a lot of such venues inside Russia, and shopping malls and concert venues, you do have pretty tight security, but certainly not security that would be able to hold up against gunman armed with high powered rifles and explosives. So it certainly seemed as though, in this case, there was security. You can see on some of the videos, actually, the perpetrators breaching the security barriers there, but obviously nothing that could have held up people who were acting in a professional way. And that's certainly what the Russians say. They believe that all this was planned professionally, that the weapons were planted professionally, and that obviously the attackers when they went through that venue, were extremely ruthless, Michael.

SMERCONISH: Frederik Pleitgen, thank you for that report.

Turning our attention now to the developing story about Princess Kate's cancer diagnosis. The senior royal family member revealed in a video message Friday that she started the early stages of chemotherapy describing her diagnosis as a huge shock. Kate temporarily stepped away from her public life after undergoing abdominal surgery back in January. Joining me now is CNN's Richard Quest. He is live at Buckingham Palace.

Richard, could she have been forced into this disclosure by those reports that someone may have hacked into her hospital records?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We don't know, but I don't think so. And the reason is that the hospital has not made clear whether the records were indeed accessed. All they've said is that three employees of the hospital are now being investigated and questioned about it, which of course, as in the U.S. is strictly against the law to access -- improperly access hospital records.

If, Michael, and it's a very good point, if it was the potential, that somewhere in the world, not in the U.K., that those medical records were about to be released, that will be a very big deal indeed. But so far, the suggestion is that there's -- the date and the timing of the announcement had more to do with the school holidays, that William and Kate did not want their children to be at school with everybody gossiping about their mother's health. And so they waited until the school holidays, which took place, began on Friday, and now they have a couple of weeks over Easter. Will we see them over this period, highly unlikely, possibly once maybe at a church service, but there's going to be no major events, or which we will see or likely to see the Princess of Wales as she goes through her chemotherapy treatments. SMERCONISH: My hunch is that in the United States, in a similar circumstance, we'd be clamoring for additional details notwithstanding the privacy considerations. What's the expectation among the Brits of further disclosure?

QUEST: Let's just go straight to the hypocrisy about which you speak. Absolutely, where everybody and their brother is saying, of course, give her space, give her the privacy, give her this, give her that room, et cetera, and then we all want to know all the details, which is exactly why Kensington Palace has made it clear there will be no running commentary. For instance, they now -- we now know it was major abdominal surgery, but we don't know what led up to it. We don't know what sort of cancer. We don't know what stage it is at.

Yes, everybody wants to know that, and myself included. The level of hypocrisy of saying, well, yes, we previously -- medical privacy, oh, by the way, would you mind just telling me this? And I'm afraid that's the way it's going to be. It's the reality of public life.

SMERCONISH: How do you read Harry and Meghan's response?

QUEST: Interesting, very interesting. I like the phrase healing, health and healing, very short. The room -- you know, the gossip in the room is that Harry wants to come back and that this is an opportunity for Harry to come back and help because the Royals are down on numbers at the moment. As you probably know, working Royals no longer got the king full throttle. You've no longer got Kate at full throttle.

You've got the Queen who's in her 70s, anyway. And you've got William distracted as well. And this idea that somehow Harry and Meghan are going to come back from California, it's a ride to the rescue. No, I mean, could it be true? Well, it could is the important bit, possibly.

Is it too highly unlikely? They've made their bed in California. And that seems to be. Harry will be back in Britain for the Invictus Games. That could be the possibility of the rapprochement but not likely. William is still very firmly, if not against his brother, he certainly firmly in wanting to keep at arm's length.

[09:10:14]

SMERCONISH: Richard Quest, thank you. We wish Godspeed to Kate. Appreciate your report.

Up ahead, on Monday, Donald Trump owes a $464 million bond for his civil fraud judgment. And yet Friday, thanks to the deal making Truth Social public, Trump's share of the company will potentially net him $3 billion on paper at least. So how will that impact his financial situation? This is all the inspiration for today's poll question at smerconish.com. I want to know what you think. Go to my website and answer this, which is more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, love of money or love of Trump?

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[09:15:24]

SMERCONISH: Is Donald Trump headed for a windfall just when it appears as if his prized properties might be seized? By now, you know, the Trump faces a Monday deadline to post a $464 million bond as he appeals the New York civil fraud verdict. His lawyers have said raising the cash is a, quote, "practical impossibility," where no bonding company will accept real estate as collateral which is the source of most of his wealth. They're awaiting the decision of an appeals court which Trump has asked to waive the bond requirement.

Meanwhile, the New York Attorney General Letitia James has entered a judgment against Trump in Westchester County, New York, a possible precursor to seizing a Trump golf course located there. Judgment has already been entered in New York City home to his penthouse at Trump Tower and office building at 40 Wall Street. James has her eye on the latter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEU GENERAL: We are prepared to make sure that the judgment is paid to New Yorkers. And yes, I look at 40 Wall Street each and every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: According to "The Washington Post," Trump has ruled out one path of lesser resistance, personal bankruptcy. The thinking is that it could damage his brand, notwithstanding that six times he's gone that route for his businesses. As the "Post" has noted, "On the campaign trail, Trump in years past explained away those corporate bankruptcies, saying he used a tool many savvy investors have employed and noting that he never had to file personally."

Politically speaking, Trump might actually welcome the optics of the New York attorney general seizing his real estate, given that he's already sold a persecution narrative, at least to Republicans who are giving him their nomination. And now might they also provide him financial relief in an unconventional way? Trump stands to receive a $3 billion windfall by driving up the value of his Truth Social media platform. That's because the Shell Company taking Truth Social public, digital world acquisition has become Wall Street's latest meme stock. Remember what happened to AMC and GameStop during the pandemic, due to social media buzz small investors bought up the struggling stocks sending their value skyrocketing. That's exactly what is happening with Truth Social.

Since Trump launched Truth Social in 2022 after being kicked off Twitter and Facebook, the alternative social media platform has lost millions of dollars and led to insider trading convictions. The company's leaders past and present had been trading accusations of deception and impropriety across four lawsuits in three states. But despite all that, in the lead up to Friday's vote, the speculators market wildly drove up the value of digital world acquisition. This week, the stock rose 18 percent to nearly $43. Then Friday after the deal was approved dropped nearly 14 percent. After hours trading bumped it back up to 38 and change. Where the merger agreement calls for Trump to own roughly 79 million shares, his interest, at least as of now, a cool 3 billion. I want to know what you think. Go to smerconish.com, vote on this week's poll question, which is more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, love of money or love of Trump?

Joining me now is Erik Hirsch, co-CEO of Hamilton Lane, with over 900 billion of assets under management and supervision. Hamilton Lane is one of the leading private markets investment firms in the world.

Erik, what is digital world Acquisition Corp. And what is it doing with Trump Media?

ERIK HIRSCH, CO-CEO, HAMILTON LANE: Good morning, Michael. It is referred to as a SPAC, a word that most people have probably not heard but are hearing a lot. And a SPAC is a Special Purpose Acquisition Corporation. It is designed to do exactly what it's doing. Its purpose is to acquire something. And the thing that it is about to acquire is Trump Media.

SMERCONISH: I looked at the filing, at least the cover page for the SEC. Catherine (ph), could we put it up on the screen? I don't know if Erik you're able to see this, but the SEC filing shows an address. And then we actually looked at the location that's referenced 3109 Grand Avenue Miami. In what I'm showing the audience it says 3111 Grand Avenue but you can see there's a UPS Store.

In other words, I would expect but I'm naive to these matters. You correct me. I would expect that I would see like a gleaming office tower behind these this effort. What do you make of it?

HIRSCH: So the business is actually Trump Media. The shell entity is the SPAC. And so, not surprising that there isn't a big gleaming office tower for the SPAC, it's looking to acquire something. And again, that real business that it's acquiring is Trump Media.

[09:20:03]

SMERCONISH: Who is fueling this?

HIRSCH: Well, I think, Michael, you've got sort of two sides of this. There are people and you can look on all sorts of the chat boards, because as you noted, this is become a meme stock. So something that is getting a huge amount of investor frenzy. And so there, you sort of see on the chalkboards, people who are true believers that Trump Media and its various components today, primarily Truth Social, is going to become a dominant media platform. And so they believe they're getting in early, and this is going to continue to run.

The other side seems to just be joining the frenzy and trying to make a quick buck.

SMERCONISH: I thought that Truth Social and I'm registered on it, I don't use it, I thought it was kind of a bust. I mean, what does this say about the value, the real value of Trump's media property? HIRSCH: Well, let's put it in comparison. So Reddit, a very popular online communication tool also went public last week, Reddit has a market cap of about $7 billion. That's on revenue of about $800 million. Trump Media today is boasting revenue of about $3 million. And yet, this merger would actually show a value slightly north of $6 billion.

SMERCONISH: So what's the answer to my poll question today? In your opinion, is this about people who have a love of Trump? And are essentially writing him a check through an indirect means? Or do they have a love of money, and they're just looking to cash in on all this?

HIRSCH: I think I'd like to see choice C, which is both. I think you have some people that are simply believers, that they want this property to become what they are touting it to be, which is a global dominant media platform. And there are others who just enjoy the frenzy and who are trading around it making a quick profit.

SMERCONISH: What does it mean, Erik, for his personal net worth, can he access this cash or as cash and if so when?

HIRSCH: Well, Michael, there's an interesting wrinkle here, you talked about the $3 billion. And that's accurate. That's what happens upon the merger if that's what his portion would be worth. But if you actually read the documents, there's another twist here, which is, if the stock trades above $17.50 for 20 consecutive trading days, Trump gets another 40 million shares. So based on Friday's close, the stake is actually worth about $4.7 billion.

Now, those shares are locked up for at least six months. But as you noted, Trump will control two thirds of the company and therefore will control the board, it is possible that he could pass a regulation change that allows his lockup to be shorter. Now selling that much stock into the market is going to be very difficult to not have negative consequences on the stock price.

SMERCONISH: So, you saw the clip that we showed of Letitia James eying 40 Wall Street, the New York attorney general. If I'm her, maybe I'm delighted by this, because maybe I get to seize whatever gain he might appreciate from a Truth Social IPO. Your thoughts?

HIRSCH: Well, Michael, when we look at someone's net worth, we count all of their assets, we count their real estate, we count their portfolio, we count their interest in public or private businesses. And so this is going to be an asset for President Trump.

SMERCONISH: OK, final thought. It didn't end well for GameStop. Right? I mean, is this do you think headed in the same direction?

HIRSCH: Well, you showed the charts. I mean, if you take a look at AMC, which you put up there, peaked at about $200 a share and today trades around $4 a share. Ultimately, the market starts to look for reality. And reality is, what our earnings and what our profits and what's happening with growth in businesses. And so at some point, the market tends to be always right.

And it's hard to beat the market. And the market is going to want to see reality.

SMERCONISH: Erik Hirsch, thank you. Appreciate your expertise.

What are your thoughts? Hit me up on social media? I'll read some responses throughout the course of the program. From the world of X. Are you sure it's not from the world of Truth Social, Catherine?

Easy answer. Love of Trump every time Trump is attacked, people love him more people that didn't like him before now love him because of this and they're going to vote for him as well. I have to say in response to this, and this individual calls it the Biden boomerang effect. You heard me make reference and I spoken of it in much more detail on radio, that I think the best thing politically for Donald Trump, crazy as it sounds, would be Letitia James seizing his real estate, because I think not only would that infuriate the MAGA base, but I also believe that there would be some who don't like him who would say, wait a minute, it's gone a bit too far. Of course I could be wrong, I've been wrong plenty of times in the past.

I want to remind you, go to smerconish.com. Answer today's poll question, which is more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, is it love of money or is it love of Trump?

[09:25:00]

Up ahead, is your car spying on you? Several automakers now include a feature that wirelessly sends data about how a car is being driven that can be obtained by insurance companies to determine their rates. But many consumers don't even know they're being tracked. I'll talk to the reporter who broke the story.

Plus, for the first time that a 12-year history of Gallup's Worldwide Happiness Report, America didn't make the top 20 happiest countries, and it's due in large part to the unhappiness of Americans under 30. They ranked 62nd in the world in their age group. So what's going on with that?

Please sign up for my free daily newsletter at smerconish.com for which Jack Ohman, the Pulitzer Prize winner sketched this cartoon this week.

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[09:30:27]

SMERCONISH: Is your car spying on you and upping the cost of your insurance? It turns out that's a growing problem. Thanks to today's internet equipped vehicles, it can occur without the driver's knowledge or permission. That's the finding of a recent "New York Times" piece by my next guest under the heading, "Automakers Are Sharing Consumers' Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies."

So, how is this happening? Well, in recent years, automakers including GM, Honda, Kia, Hyundai, have started offering optional features in their Connected Car apps that rate people's driving. If drivers enable these features on GM, it's called OnStar Smart Driver, many don't realize the car companies then give information about their driving to data brokers.

One such broker is LexisNexis, which has a Risk Solutions division serving the auto insurance industry and has traditionally kept tabs on car accidents and tickets. On the surface, it sounds sensible that an insurer would want to know a driver's record and people who are safe drivers want credit for their habits. But as the "Times" reports, "The existence of these partnerships is nearly invisible to drivers, whose consent is obtained in fine print and murky privacy policies that few read."

One Corvette driver was surprised his data was collected during a track day while testing out the Corvette's limits on a professional race track. A Cadillac driver in Palm Beach County, Florida, Romeo Chicco, was denied auto insurance by seven companies because his LexisNexis report detailed speeding, hard braking, and accelerating. He ended up having to pay double his old premium. Chicco says that although he had downloaded the My Cadillac app, he had not signed up for OnStar or Smart Driver. He's now suing GM and LexisNexis Risk Solutions, accusing them of violations of privacy and consumer protection laws.

LexisNexis Risk Solutions declined to comment. But on Friday, GM released the following statement -- quote -- "As of March 20th, OnStar Smart Driver customer data is no longer being shared with LexisNexis or Verisk. Customer trust is a priority for us, and we are actively evaluating our privacy processes and policies."

Joining me now is Kashmir Hill, Business Features writer for "The New York Times" and author of the book, "Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup's Quest to End Privacy as We Know It." Kashmir, exactly what type of information is being tracked?

KASHMIR HILL, AUTHOR, "YOUR FACE BELONGS TO US": Yes. So, in these cases, they were tracking every trip -- the trip that a person took in their car, including when the trip started and ended, how many miles they drove, and how many times they hard braked, hard accelerated, or sped, went more than 80 miles per hour.

SMERCONISH: So, there's nothing new about associating the level of risk with one's premium. It seems to me based on your reporting that the issue here is really one of consent.

HILL: Absolutely. Look, if we think that all drivers should have this data collected and be charged accordingly, that's a whole different conversation. In this case, it was happening secretly.

I heard that story of Romeo Chicco from so many drivers. They had no idea this data was being collected and they had no idea it was going to affect their insurance. And their insurance went up, you know, 20 percent, 50 percent doubling in some cases.

SMERCONISH: You know, I discussed this on radio and I did hear from a number of callers who said that they'd signed up with USAA and had seen a reduction in premium and they welcomed it. Like, hey, I'm a safe driver and if they want to track me with my permission, I'm cool with that. How often have you heard anecdotally of rates actually tumbling?

HILL: I have not had anybody come to me and say that this secret monitoring led to their insurance rates being decreased.

SMERCONISH: So, what happens if it doesn't stop with just the insurance company? It occurs to me that the automobile manufacturers have the technology, what they get out of it is revenue, I assume, from selling your data with your permission, we hope, onto the insurance broker. But who's to say that it's not just an insurance company? I've got to believe there's a hypothetical of this going in all different directions that we might not welcome.

HILL: Yes. I mean, I think this story could be the tip of the iceberg. What is happening right now is that cars are becoming smartphones on wheels. You know, they are massive data collectors. They have hundreds of sensors and cameras in the car and they're collecting a lot of data about drivers and how they're driving.

[09:35:05]

And I think that automakers have realized that they can do what Silicon Valley has done, what Google and Facebook has done, you know, find a way to monetize this data. And so, there are likely other ways they're doing it. And this is just one of the programs where were seeing that they have sold it to data brokers who then sold it to the insurance industry.

SMERCONISH: Kashmir, I referenced your reporting about GM. Explain to me the change in their handling of this data.

HILL: So, GM announced this week that they are no longer going to be sharing data for smart drivers with LexisNexis Risk Solutions or another date of broker they're selling to called Verisk. They said that customer trust is a priority for them and that they're reevaluating their privacy policies and procedures here.

SMERCONISH: My hunch is that people are watching us all across the country right now and they're saying to themselves, hey, I wonder if I'm being tracked. So, what can someone watching who's concern due to figure out if that's the case?

HILL: Yes. I mean, in the case of GM, according to one internal corporate document I saw there were 8 million cars that were enrolled in this program. And so, if you're wondering, hey, you know, is this happening to me? Is data from my car being tracked?

One, look at your -- look at your car app. If you have one, if you have a Connected Car app, see if you're enrolled in one of these driver score or driver feedback programs. You can go to your automaker. You can request a privacy report. And you can actually go to LexisNexis Risk Solutions and request your consumer disclosure report and find out whether you're driving details are in there.

SMERCONISH: What an eye-opener. Thank you for the report. Kashmir Hill, we appreciate it.

HILL: Thanks for having me on.

SMERCONISH: Via social media. From the world of X. What do we have, Catherine?

What really sticks out to me is the absurdity department -- it got taken off my screen.

Credit -- what was wrong with the other one? Inquiring minds want to know.

Credit card companies and lenders get to see your spending patterns, debt obligations, and credit worthiness. Why shouldn't an insurance company get to see more details on the kind of drivers they're considering insuring?

Well, Fionn McCool, I think you're right. I mean, if you're a skydiver, you ought to be paying more for your life insurance than somebody who doesn't skydive. I get it. There's nothing new associating risk with premium. To me, based on Kashmir's reporting and my conversation with her, it's all about consent.

And look, I'm an attorney. I'm as bad as everybody else. You arrive on a flight, you pick up the rental car, they put something in front of you. You just sign it. You're tired. You want to keep moving.

In this case, the consent needs to be like, really obvious. Hey, we're going to track all this information and determine your premium as a result. And if they're doing that, then I'm cool with it. By the way, I think that's going to be tomorrow's poll question.

I want to remind you to go to my Web site right now for today's poll question. Which is more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, is it love of money, or love of Trump?

Up ahead, what's the happiest country on Earth? For 12 years, Gallup has conducted a global poll to determine the answer. America fell out of the top 20 list, largely because of younger Americans. They're much less happy than their elders. I'm going to ask the CEO of Gallup why that's the case.

Remember if you subscribe to my free and daily newsletter at Smerconish.com you're going to get exclusive editorial cartoons from the legends. Check out what Rob Rogers drew for us this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:07]

SMERCONISH: Don't worry, be happy, they say. But in Gallup's annual World Happiness Report, the U.S. did not rank among the 20 world's happiest countries for the first time since Gallup started this report 12 years.

For those 60 years and older, Denmark, Finland, Norway, the place to be. If you're under 30 Lithuania, Israel, Serbia have the highest happiness levels for the demographic. But the U.S. fell eight spots, becoming the 23rd happiest country overall. The reason, young people are struggling.

Recent studies show Americans under 30 have much less faith in political leadership and economic opportunities. Teen depression skyrocketing amid the smartphone era. And loneliness levels across generation Z and millennials are rising all of which may explain the stark happiness divide among older Americans and its younger ones.

Had Gallup surveyed only America's oldest age group, the United States would be listed as the 10th happiest country in the world. But if you only ask the young America would fall all the way down to 62nd place.

Joining me now to discuss is the CEO of Gallup, Jon Clifton. Jon, you ask the happiness question by telling subjects to imagine their life as a ladder, explain.

JON CLIFTON, CEO, GALLUP: Well, first let's start with how we do this. So, we go into over 140 countries. In a third of them, we call them on the phone. And the other two-thirds we actually go into their homes and do face-to-face interviewing. This is so that we can reach people who may not necessarily have access to phone or even to the internet. And so, that's how we're collecting this information.

And to your point, the one question that we do ask them is rate your life on a scale of zero to 10, where zero is the worst imaginable life, and 10 is the best imaginable life. Where do you stand today? And as you showed, Finland. Finns rate their lives the best in the entire world.

SMERCONISH: Why do the Nordic countries generally seemed to do so well, not only this year, but in the years you've been doing this?

[09:45:05]

CLIFTON: Well, we found that there are six drivers that ultimately lead to why people rate their lives very high. And the single biggest driver is money. And so, if you look at the statistical relationship between GDP per capita among all countries, you can see that the top 20 are oftentimes the richest. And the bottom 20 are the ones who are struggling the most in the world.

SMERCONISH: OK. But the U.S. does well from a wealth perspective and yet we don't rank. So, why do the Nordic companies seem to have it all figured out?

CLIFTON: You're right, so it's not everything. Money isn't everything. And one of the key differentiators is our social connections. And we can see that this is oftentimes true in smaller countries, but you can also see it right now in the United States.

There is a group within America who is experiencing far more loneliness than they ever have before. In fact, they're almost twice as likely to experience loneliness as the oldest generation. So, there are these additional human elements that people consider when they're thinking about how is their life going overall.

SMERCONISH: You're reminding me now of a book that I read last year called "The Good Life." I'm sure you know the work, Waldinger and Schulz. It's that Harvard generational study. And, you know, they looked at not only several hundred Harvard grads, inner city Boston board boys, but then their descendants, an amazing retention rate of the cooperation level of those in the pool.

Bottom line, relationships. If you have relationships in your 50s you're probably going to live into your 80s and you're going to be happy when you get there. That's pretty much what you're saying you found.

CLIFTON: Well, and it has an even higher correlation with a separate measure that we have, which is, do you experience a lot of enjoyment? Other indicators like -- actually we asked Americans, are you happy? And those items on social well-being, if you well or whether or not you have friends or whether or not you don't have the absence of loneliness that is where you see the biggest impact show up.

SMERCONISH: Lest anybody be watching this without having read the study as I've done, and you certainly have done, wealth doesn't buy happiness. That's not the message that we want to send. Go make friends, go out. And the word I'm using now, mingle with people if you want to be happy. You get the final word.

CLIFTON: Well look, money does not buy happiness, but it is really hard to be happy without it. In the last piece is that there are a lot of people that are blaming social media on many of the societal ills that exist today. But there may be a broader question on is, it social media or is it technology?

Because many of the young people who feel disconnected from the world, they're also young men who are playing a lot of video games. And there are a lot of people who are feeling disconnected from the mission and purpose of the organization because they're spending a lot more time on Zoom than they are with their colleagues in person.

SMERCONISH: Jon Clifton, thanks. It's a fascinating report. Hopefully, we get our numbers up next year.

CLIFTON: Thank you for having me, Michael.

SMERCONISH: Checking in on social media. From the world of X. What do we have?

Everyone sees happiness differently. Social pressures are molding that vision. Social media is molding our passions. So that more than anything is defining happiness. And yes, it is tougher to attain.

I see it all so simply, Jerry Skinner. I see it based on all the books that I'm familiar with, Waldinger and Schulz, "The Good Life." Putnam, "Bowling Alone." Bishop, "The Big Sort." Twenge, "iGen." And I've already read Jonathan Haidt's book which drops on Tuesday. I'm familiar with the work of Lenore Skenazy.

I put them all together. They're saying the same thing. Too much time on technology, not enough time intermingling with one another. We got to push away from our screens, technology is a good thing, and have common experience and for goodness sake's, make sure that our kids are doing likewise. That's my mingle project if you've heard me discuss it on radio. Getting people to realize the value of when we spend our lives together, person-to-person.

Still to come, more of your best and worst social media comments. And don't forget to vote. I can't wait to see how this turns out. Today's poll question at Smerconish.com, which is more, it's a binary choice, more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, love of money, or love of Trump?

And while you're there voting, sign-up for the free and worthy daily newsletter. You're going to get exclusive content. Come on, look at that. Steve Breen drew that for us this week. Does it not sum things up?

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[09:54:16]

SMERCONISH: All right. Gang, there it is the results so far, interesting, 24,000 and change. Which is more fueling the Truth Social IPO frenzy, 53 percent say, love of Trump. If nothing else, it shows a level of passion that we've never seen before, right? It's just incredible.

Social media reaction to this. What do we have, Catherine?

Love of Trump. They just found a backdoor way to finance his legal fees and judgments. Apparently, it wasn't enough to buy the grifters crap merchandise.

Jane, can you imagine if we were like writing a screenplay. And we're writing a screenplay, we say to Hollywood, all right, and we've got this former president and he's then four times indicted, and he nevertheless secures his party's nomination. Really? How is he able to do that if he's indicted?

[09:55:00]

Oh, it gets better. When he's about to have assets seized by a state attorney general for something independent of those four indictments then he launches an IPO for a social media product that people really don't use and yet it nets him, earns him $3 billion. I think Hollywood would say to us, it's too fantastical. Who's ever going to buy that that could happen?

More social media reaction. What else came in while I've been on air?

I think Truth Social IPO is nothing more than a pump and dump scam. Buyer beware.

I think, Original Bob, maybe people have already made money on it. I really don't understand the vagaries of the market but, you know, like he who last is holding the bag, is going to be key, right? Here's another one. What else came in? Real quick.

If young people put the phone down, they would be happier. Social media and cable news is killing America.

I agree that social media is. Cable news, I don't think is with the same level of culpability. Change the channel, mix up your media diet. That's what you need to do.

I will see you next week. Thanks for watching.

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