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Smerconish

WSJ: Biden Need To Learn From Dems' Disaster In '68; Will Trump And Biden Ever Debate?; Survey: 75 Percent Of Americans Say Mental Health Not Treated Same As Physical; Former Trump Aide Hope Hicks Testifies In Hush Money Case; Why Did South Dakota Governor Noem Write About Killing Her Dog? Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 04, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

OPAL LEE, KNOW AS "GRANDMOTHER OF JUNETEENTH": And if we could just get the young people to understand that we've got so much that we could share with some -- so they don't have to go through the same things with -- I'm just a happy camper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: You'll see more of my conversation with Ms. Opal Lee, an special we're putting together for Juneteenth on CNN.

Among other honorees Clarence B. Jones, who helped draft Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech. Michelle Yeoh also, the first Asian- American to win the Academy Award for Best Actress.

Thank you so much for joining me today. "SMERCONISH" is up next.

[09:00:36]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Is it 1968 the sequel? I'm Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia.

This week in a deja vu of the Vietnam era, police officers in riot gear across the country were called in to disperse anti-war protesters from college campuses. When they cleared out Columbia University's Hamilton Hall, it was on the 56th anniversary of police arrests ending a student takeover about the Vietnam conflict in the exact same building. And this August, even more deja vu, the Democratic National Convention will take place in Chicago, the same city which hosted the 1968 DNC which was famously disrupted by both chaotic radical anti-war protests and the violent response of the police. A bit of history, in 1968 included LBJ deciding not to seek reelection because of Vietnam, four days later, the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. race riots, then the assassination of Democratic front runner Robert F. Kennedy. The Republican challenger, Richard Nixon, who had lost to JFK in 1960, was promising to end the Vietnam War and restore law and order at home.

As my next guest recently recounted in the Wall Street Journal, in August of '68, when Hubert Humphrey was about to take the podium to accept the Democratic nomination, the television networks abruptly cut away the footage of National Guardsmen in armored jeeps, firing tear gas and swinging their billy clubs at Vietnam War protesters in Grant Park across town. The video lasted 17 minutes and eternity, both for the 89 million Americans watching the broadcast and for Humphreys candidacy. The Democratic Convention was a catastrophe for Humphrey and for a nation that it left more polarized than ever. The only beneficiary politically speaking was Republican candidate Richard Nixon.

And even though history has sided with the Vietnam protesters at the time the unrest boomerang. As David Brooks recounts in the "New York Times," "In 1966, Ronald Reagan vowed to clean up the mess at Berkeley and was elected governor of California. In 1968, Richard Nixon celebrated the "forgotten Americans, the nonshouters, the nondemonstrators," and was elected to the presidency. Far from leading to a new progressive era, the uprisings of the era were followed by what was arguably the most conservative period in American history." And the title of David Brooks piece, "Why the Protests Help Trump?"

Meghan McCain warned in a tweet, the DNC convention this summer going to be a blanking s show. And today happens to be the 54th anniversary of the Kent State massacre, that fateful day in 1970 when the National Guard shot and killed four students on that Ohio campus during an anti-Vietnam War protest. This week, Bernie Sanders told CNN Christiane Amanpour the following.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDSERS (I-VT): This may be Biden's Vietnam, Lyndon Johnson, in many respects, was a very, very good president domestically, brought forth some major pieces of legislation. He chose not to run in '68 because of opposition to his views on Vietnam. And I worry very much that President Biden is putting himself in a position where he has alienated not just young people, but a lot of the Democratic base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Is Bernie right? I want to know what you think. Go to my website at smerconish.com. Vote on today's poll question, do you agree with Bernie Sanders that the campus protests over Israel may be Biden's Vietnam?

James Traub joins me now. He wrote that Wall Street Journal piece, "Biden Needs to Learn from the Democratic Disaster of '68." He's also the author of several books, including most recently "True Believer, Hubert Humphrey's Quest for a more just American." Thank you so much for being here.

So the conventional wisdom is that Humphrey lost because he wouldn't break with Johnson on the war. And you say that's wrong. How come?

JAMES TRAUB, HISTORIAN & BIOGRAPHER: Because the big issue in '68, it turned out was not Vietnam, it was law and order. And as you mentioned in your introduction, Richard Nixon campaigned on law and order. And so, one of the amazing things that comes out of that '68 convention is that after those 89 million people saw the Chicago Police swinging their billy clubs and cracking heads, and they saw the horror of that moment, a poll found that two thirds of respondents supported the tactics of the Chicago Police.

[09:05:06]

So, even though there were many Americans who shared a lot of a criticism of the Vietnam War, many turned against it by that time, their anger at this freewheeling carnivalesque disruptive protest was more politically salient. So my point in the piece and my point in the book is that Humphrey lost in '68 not because he was abandoned by the left, but because he was abandoned by traditional blue collar Democratic voters who went either for Nixon or for George Wallace.

SMERCONISH: You say he wouldn't, he, Humphrey, wouldn't come down on the kids in the street. So what's the lesson then for President Biden?

TRAUB: Well, it's such a narrow path to tread. Because what I also say in the piece, is that Humphrey couldn't really afford to completely alienate those kids. At one level, he had a sense of identification with them, because he thought of himself as a reformer, but also that was so much the source of the energy and the idealism in the party. And so Biden faces a similar problem.

The kids who are demonstrating today are a tiny fraction of the Democratic Party. They're even a small fraction of young people, most young people are well, more conservative than they are. But he already seen as a kind of stodgy and solid candidate, he doesn't want to completely cut his ties to that more youthful and progressive wing of the party, even though I argue that the political danger, the electoral danger, is those people offending the much larger group of voters to Biden's right.

And so the narrow path is to find a way to modify that group, ideally, by some statement -- some action, I'm sorry, in regard to Israel that will show that he shares some of their concerns. And to do that in a way that does not identify him with the demonstrations.

SMERCONISH: You said in the piece, and I thought it was appropriate, that the fireworks are on the left and the votes are on the right. As I'm watching these events unfold, I keep asking myself, how does it play in Pennsylvania, among working class voters and Wisconsin, and in Michigan. You get the final word. What are your thoughts?

TRAUB: Yes, this part is an exact repeat of 1968. Because that's exactly the question that Humphrey and the people around him had to ask themselves. And the answer clearly is it played into -- for them, the issue had played into is not Vietnam, but again, law and order, control, orderliness, and maybe even a certain kind of set of behavioral values. How does one behave properly? And so, in that regard, demonstrations, if they occur at that level in in this year in 2024, are really a very serious threat to Biden's hopes for reelection.

SMERCONISH: James Traub, that was excellent. I look forward to reading your book. And I thank you.

TRAUB: Thank you. The pleasure.

SMERCONISH: What are your thoughts? Hit me up on social media. I'll read some responses throughout the course of the program.

From the world of X, although the Israel-Hamas war isn't America's war, like the Vietnam war was, if these college uprisings are not controlled soon, Biden could be badly affected in November.

Garth, obviously the term has come to a close, right, kids are taking finals now, classes ended, commencements have begun, so presumably they'll soon be leaving campus. But will Chicago become a magnet later in the summer? That's I think the lurking question.

Hey, I want to know what you think. Go to my website at smerconish.com. Answer today's poll question, do you agree with Bernie Sanders that the campus protests over Israel, maybe Biden's Vietnam?

Still to come, Hope Hicks was one of the first people to join Donald Trump's 2016 campaign. He nicknamed her Hopey. And she eventually rose to White House Communications Director. Friday, Hicks was on the witness stand telling the jury what she knew about the Access Hollywood tape and hush money payments before breaking down in tears. Elie Honig is here to discuss.

And will there ever be a Biden-Trump debate this cycle? The candidates are telling the press they're willing, but what are they telling the Commission on Presidential Debates? I'm about to ask co-chair Frank Fahrenkopf. Please be sure to sign up for my daily newsletter at smerconish.com. You'll find exclusive content from award winning cartoonists like this from Steve Breen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:14:09]

SMERCONISH: Will Trump and Biden actually debate? Last week Biden told Howard Stern that he'd be happy to debate Trump again. The former President responded on "Truth Social" saying, quote, "Crooked Joe Biden just announced that he's willing to debate. Everyone knows he really doesn't mean it. But in case he does, I say anywhere, anytime, anyplace."

Last November, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced for televised events across four college campuses, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Utah. Trump's campaign managers did openly criticize the commission for scheduling its first televised debate on September 16, after, quote, "Millions of Americans will have already cast their ballots."

Joining me now is Frank Fahrenkopf, the co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for coming back. Let's deal with that last point first, millions of Americans will not have voted by the time of your first debate. Explain.

[09:15:02]

FRANK FAHRENKOPF, CO-CHAIR, THE COMMISSION ON PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Well what we know at this point in time is that there's going to be two states where prior to September 16, if you've went through quite a little rigmarole, and that's typically states to get a ballot and vote before that. The other 48 states will not have any early voting before the 16th of September.

So, that's -- now, to be fair to the criticism that came from them is they were looking back at what happened when we had the coronavirus four years ago where state after state changed their law to have early voting, mail and voting, paper ballots, et cetera. That has all been changed in almost every single state. So that's why it's not the same as it was.

And in fact, Michael, this date, September 16, will be the earliest date in the 64 year history of presidential debates.

SMERCONISH: OK, I guess it's good news that they're now talking at each other about debates, but most importantly, what are they telling the Commission on Presidential Debates, you who run it and have done so since 1988?

FAHRENKOPF: Well, other than the criticism that we just heard from the Trump campaign with regard to trying to move, you know, the baits earlier, in which we think we've answered as best we can answer it, we've had no contact with either campaign, which is not unusual, Michael.

We normally don't have contact with Republican and Democrat and other people who may be able to be on, for example, the Green Party will probably qualify, and Jill Stein will be their nominee, we don't talk to them until after their nominating conventions, and we know that they are the nominees, then we have content. We haven't had any, you know, other contact other than the letters that we received from the Trump campaign.

SMERCONISH: OK, so you're just going about your business. And I guess in that regard, I should ask, because you have four college campuses, that will be the location of the debates, does anything that is transpiring right now alter your plans in any way?

FAHRENKOPF: Not in any way. We're going forward. We're working with those universities. The Secret Service has also cleared those universities from the security standpoint, and we're just going forward. We'll wait to see the nominating conventions, what may or may not happen, and then we'll go forward.

About September 6, when is the last date that any state will be determining who's going to qualify for their ballot, will then know who meets the requirement of being on enough ballots to conceivably get 270 electoral votes. And at that time, I'm sure that we'll have more context.

SMERCONISH: We talked about the first debate, the last debate is scheduled for October 9. I'm mindful of the fact that in 1980, when Ronald Reagan was debating Jimmy Carter, he encouraged Americans to vote for him, quote, next week. Wow, have things changed. And obviously, you had to do that because of all the early voting that takes place.

FAHRENKOPF: That's correct, that a lot of the laws have changed. That was a week before when, you know, when he was Governor Reagan, wasn't it at that time, made that statement, but the laws have changed in most states since then. And this is the almost three weeks really between the first debate and the last debate, which is a bit unusual, which is unusual.

SMERCONISH: OK. I hope it happens. Everybody hopes that it happens.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We appreciate it.

FAHRENKOPF: No problem, Michael. Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Social media reaction on the subject of the debates from the world of X. Oh, because nothing says fair and inclusive debate like leaving RFK out that really screams democracy in action.

Well, hang on. I mean, I know the rules. The rules are that if RFK Jr. or anybody else can get on enough ballots so that they conceivably have a path to 270. And if they're at 15 percent in five national polls, they make the debate stage. I think the issue for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is not so much the 15 percent as the ballot access.

He says he's going to get on all of them and has made now in California. So, that's where I think the rubber will meet the road. And look, I say the more the merrier. If they have a legitimate shot then they ought to be on that stage.

Up ahead. This is Mental Health Awareness Month, shouldn't that be every month, right? A new Gallup survey finds that 22 percent of Americans say their mental health is so poor, it's interfering with everyday activities like going to work. Part of this can be traced to a severe shortage of psychiatrists specializing in children. So how do we fix that?

And Hope Hicks breaks down in tears at Trump's trial. Depending on where you get your news, you may think you know why. Former federal prosecutor Elie Honig will be here.

And I remind you please go to my website at smerconish.com, do you agree with Bernie Sanders when he says that campus protests over Israel may be Biden's Vietnam?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:24:34]

SMERCONISH: May is Mental Health Awareness Month, yet many Americans feel they're not getting the help they need. A new West Health-Gallup survey finds that three out of four people believe their mental health issues are not identified and treated the same way as physical symptoms.

It also shows that 51 percent of Americans say they experienced depression, anxiety or other mental health related issues in the past year. The U.S. Census Bureau and healthcare experts found a severe shortage of child psychiatrists in the nation's 25 largest cities.

[09:25:03]

For example, in Indianapolis there are more than 100,000 at risk children with only one mental health professional per 2,857. In Houston, which has 130,000 at risk children, there are only one psychiatrist for every 2,000 kids.

Joining me now is Dr. Tami Benton, psychiatrist-in-chief at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, and president of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

Dr. Benton, thank you for being here. Why are there so few providers per patient?

DR. TAMI BENTON, PSYCHIATRIST-IN-CHIEF, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Yes, that's a challenge that we've struggled with for many years. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that the rates of mental illnesses among children and other emotional challenges are increasing at a fairly rapid rate. And it definitely outpaces the rate at which we can train more child and adolescent psychiatrists.

In addition to that, there are several issues related to the length of training so that the average length of training is medical school residency for three years and two years of fellowship. And then most young people coming out of medical school nowadays have about $300,000 in debt. And so it's really challenging for a multitude of reasons.

SMERCONISH: You say that there's an increase, an uptick in the number of cases that require treatment, you've had a three decade distinguished career, what has change in the population during the last three decades?

BENTON: I think the environment has changed considerably. And what we're starting to -- I think there's a couple of issues. One is that I think that these problems have been around for a while, and many times they were undetected. With increased awareness and our ability to identify these issues, we've actually uncovered things that young people have been struggling with for a while. So we probably all remember that youngster that seemed to be annoying everybody in class, we didn't realize that a lot of times those youngsters were struggling with ADHD or anxiety and other things.

So I think there's increased awareness. But there's also increased social and environmental stressors that contribute to what we're seeing today.

SMERCONISH: OK. So, what do we need? Where do we go to find the, I like to use the word mingling that is lacking. I know, you favor the belonging that seems to be absent in so many lives.

BENTON: So I think there are many opportunities for us. And I think the pandemic, though it brought many challenges and problems that we're facing today, there are also opportunities. So, a few of the things that happened during the pandemic as families were together, there were more opportunities for families to spend time together. The other issues that are plaguing us really have to do with creating sense -- a sense of community in places where young people are, schools, their communities, recreational activities, all of those things. Family spending time together in the outdoor environment, all of those things are really important to supporting mental health, and preventing emotional challenges.

Some of the things that are happening though, as we understand there are lots of things happening in the world that young people are exposed to, through media through social media, there's a lot of stressors in school environments with many kids being bullied and marginalized and not necessarily being able to find those communities.

But those are the things that maintain and support mental health. And the goal would be how do we create an environment for young people to thrive, and for resilient families to be OK. And were there many approaches were taken to doing that. Some of them is better education about mental health.

You know, better education for providers and for communities. And so, we're looking for ways to integrate mental health into settings where children and families are every day, for example, schools, it's an excellent opportunity to reach more kids in the environment that's not stigmatizing. We're also starting to integrate more behavioral health providers in primary care practices. So when families go to receive their medical services, they're able to receive their mental health services as well.

And we're looking at other community partnerships. We're partnering with churches, recreational centers, athletic programs. But the challenge is the one you identified at the very beginning, there just are not enough clinicians to care for all the young people in need.

SMERCONISH: I'm so glad that you're here as the month kicks off. You heard -- I heard you use the word stigma, job one is to get beyond the stigma and have this kind of dialogue.

Thank you so much, Dr. Benton, we appreciate you.

BENTON: Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for what you do to educate us all about mental health.

SMERCONISH: No, that's nice. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Let's check on some social media comments and see what everybody is thinking as they're watching. It's the screen time and the lack of social interactions among our children.

[09:30:03]

It certainly is among other factors. It's the lack of socialization. It's the lack of mingling. It's not having enough community experience. It's being two sequestered, self-sorting, to put it in political terms. It's all of that.

Jonathan Haidt was here recently talking about his new book. I recommend Jean Twenge. I recommend Robert Putnam, "Bowling Alone." I recommend Bill Bishop in "The Big Sort."

I put all of these together to understand the narrative of how we've separated from one another and need to find ways of having common experience. That's how I'll verbalize it.

Still to come, this week, a bitterly divided Congress found at least one issue both sides can agree on. A bipartisan dog lovers caucus launched in direct response to the shocking tale of South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, what she wrote in her new memoir about killing her misbehaving dog.

I know, you know, the story. But here's the question, why in the hell did she tell the story? I think I have an answer.

Plus, what brought Trump's former White House aide, Hope Hicks, to tears as she took the stand this week? Elie Honig is here to discuss yesterday's testimony.

Don't forget to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Do you agree with Bernie Sanders that the campus protests over Israel may be Biden's Vietnam?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:47]

SMERCONISH: Hope Hicks once one of Trump's most trusted aides testified for nearly three hours on Friday. Here's what I found fascinating and disappointing, and posted on X. Quote, "Just watched two totally different interpretations of why Hope Hicks was brought to tears in testimony on competing networks. What a great illustration of why there should be cameras in court so that we can see for ourselves."

Joining me now is CNN's senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig. Elie, I've read the transcript, but I can't see the body language. Yesterday is the argument as to why we ought to be able to see it for ourselves.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST/FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Oh, I hundred percent agree. I'm with you now, Michael.

I probably wouldn't have been with you five years ago when I was a prosecutor, but now I think we have to have cameras in the courtroom, and you can see why in the coverage of this. There's this sort of effort to tie Hope Hicks' crying to some specific motive, some specific thing that she testified about. I don't buy that. I've seen plenty of people take the stand in a courtroom.

Testifying is scary. It's emotional. She's sitting there in front of a person who is she respected and admired, who she sort of grew up under, became a professional under. It's a dramatic moment. And if you look at the actual moment in the transcript where it says, she starts crying, there's nothing much going on. She's not being berated by either side. She --

SMERCONISH: I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it right now.

HONIG: Yes, please.

SMERCONISH: I want to go -- let me go to the transcript. So first, the very end of her direct examination, put it up on the screen, quote -- "And I think Mr. Trump's opinion was it was better to be dealing with it now, and that it would have been bad to have that story come out before the election."

Thank you. No further questions. Prosecution feels good, right, Elie? On that point, they thought they have Hope Hicks connecting the payment in the mind of Donald Trump, maybe to the election. Quick reaction on that.

HONIG: Sure. Sure. It's a strong piece of evidence for the prosecution. I do respectfully dissent from the, this is it, nail in the coffin, devastating game over moment.

SMERCONISH: Totally.

HONIG: It helps them on a piece of the case, but there's much more to her testimony and much more to this case than that.

SMERCONISH: OK. Why did she cry? Put it up on the screen. And I think you said this morning -- this is on cross-examination.

I think you said this morning that you focused on real estate, hospitality, the entertainment, that was your portfolio? Yes. She begins to weep.

It was nostalgia. At this moment, she's not crying because she's sinking Donald Trump. She's presumably crying because she's remembering the good old days before everything hit the fan.

HONIG: That's exactly how I see it, Michael. And it's also -- she's not crying on the other side because Donald Trump's lawyers have got -- have extracted some concession from her, browbeating her like you would see in the movies and the witness just breaks down. She's going back to a time in her life 10 plus -- almost 10 years ago now, when she was 20 something, and Donald Trump started employing her. And she sort of came up through the ranks. I mean, you can understand how it's emotional.

I just wanted to stress -- again, I'm going to use our friend and colleague, Anderson Cooper here as an example. Now, Anderson has interviewed presidents, kings. He has been in warzones. He had to testify in a fairly low-level trial last year or so. And he has said -- he said publicly, he said privately, he was terrified.

It was emotional. It was scary. It was a routine court case, but getting up on that stand can really evoke emotions.

And I just think it's a mistake to say, Hope Hicks cried because she knew she just ended Donald Trump's career, because she knew she just sunk him. Or she cried because she had just collapsed on cross- examine. It was neither of those things in my view. SMERCONISH: Transcript number three. Again, just three things that I read and I circled. Here we go. This is now the defense. There's reference to Melania Trump. That's the first highlight. Now go to the end. And Hope Hicks says, so I think he was just concerned about what her perception of this would be, meaning the hush money payment.

This is what the defense wants, which is to say Donald Trump paid that money to protect his family, Barron, his wife, et cetera. It's not because of the campaign. So, to my reading, each side got out of Hope Hicks, something that they wanted.

HONIG: That's exactly right, Michael. She was very clear on one of his big motivations, of course, was the campaign. I think that's quite clear from the evidence in the record as a whole, but she also said he was also thinking about his family.

Now, I have to say this is a situation where there's something for either side, but it's a net win for prosecutors because it's OK for prosecutors if there's mixed motives, as long as one of the substantial motivating factors was the campaign, and was politics, they're OK on that element.

[09:40:15]

But I also want to make clear, Michael, the crux of the crime here is the accounting. It's the financing of the payments. And to that end, Hope Hicks doesn't know anything and shouldn't have known any. So, I think on balance she was a good witness for the prosecution, but she absolutely was not some sort of game ender nail in the coffin.

SMERCONISH: And I want to -- I want to end where I began which is to say, Hope Hicks is example -- exhibit A for why there ought to be cameras in the courtroom. Because yesterday, watching the coverage and flipping around, on one hand, I was told there was just this Perry Mason moment where Hope Hicks realized she sunk Donald Trump. And then on a different network, I'm watching, and they're like celebrating because Hope Hicks completely blew up the prosecution case and neither of those is true.

Thank you, Elie. Appreciate you as always.

HONIG: Thanks, Michael. All right.

SMERCONISH: Checking in -- checking in on your social media comments. What do we have? From the world of X.

In a case like this, cameras in the courtroom would completely change the trial, with Trump's attorney following instructions as to how to maximize the media exposure for the benefit of his campaign. No thank you.

No, Jon in Florida, perhaps you're poisoned by the O.J. case and the way in which the lawyers then ran the whole show. That's not the typical way in which cases are tried. And we ought to be looking at Hope Hicks for ourselves. And we ought to be looking at Donald Trump for ourselves. Obviously, not the jurors because -- remember this you have a right to go stand in line and sit in that courtroom or sit in the Supreme Court of the United States. And if you've got a right to do that, or your local borough council, or your school board meeting than a camera ought to also have a right to be there in your stead.

Do not forget. I want to know what you think. Go to my Web site at Smerconish.com, answer today's poll question. Do you agree with Bernie Sanders when he says the campus protests over Israel may be Biden's Vietnam?

Up ahead, who could have ever predicted this political thread on Twitter, post a picture with your dog that doesn't involve shooting them and throwing them in a gravel pit? Yes. That's how several Democratic governors responded to Kristi Noem's shocking story in her new memoir about her killing her allegedly untrainable dog.

Look, you know the story. The question is why would she have been the one to tell it? I got a theory and you'll hear that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:47:13]

SMERCONISH: So, check that out. Jack Ohman drew that for the Smerconish.com daily newsletter. Kind of sums up the talker of the week as in like, how could she have? Isn't that what we're all saying? How could she have?

We can all agree on this. The Kristi Noem dog story is a shocking and horrible tale of human cruelty. Here's what I want to know. Why was she the one to tell it? Why did she put it in her memoir?

By now, you know, the bizarre anecdote first broken by "The Guardian." In her book, "No Going Back," Noem writes that her 14-month-old hunting dog, Cricket, got loose, killed her neighbors' chickens and quote -- "whipped around to bite me." So, she took it to a gravel pit and shot it. And then also killed a misbehaving goat. Don't leave that out.

The immediate outrage fueled countless viral memes, late night punchlines. In the book she justifies the story as illustrating her ability in politics and life to make the difficult, messy, and ugly decision if it needs to be done. Here's how she explained it to Sean Hannity on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): This was a working dog, and it was not a puppy. It was a dog that was extremely dangerous.

It had come to us from a family who had found her way too aggressive. We were her second chance. And she was -- the day she was put down was a day that she massacred livestock that were part of our neighbors.' She attacked me. And it was a hard decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: So, she must have known it was political kryptonite. So, why did she tell the story to begin with?

And joining me now is Reynold Nesiba, the Democratic Senate minority leader of the great state of South Dakota.

Senator, thank you so much for being here. Had you heard this story before?

REYNOLD NESIBA (D), MINORITY LEADER, SOUTH DAKOTA STATE SENATE: I had, Michael, and this is a rumor that has been around for years about her acting in anger to put down a dog. And I think there's at least three reasons why she did this. And maybe we can talk about that.

SMERCONISH: So -- I'd love to hear your three. I always suspected before I knew of your confirmation that she wanted to get out ahead of it. Like she was going to tell it on her terms because sooner or later, if she really is vetted, they're going to find out about the dog. But go ahead and give me your three.

NESIBA: Again, I think, that's the first one. The inoculation argument was -- is the first one. And that one hasn't gone well.

But the second one is that for the last several years, Governor Noem has worked really hard to lift her profile. And I think in that way, it has. I mean, she might be the worst governor that you've ever heard of, but you have heard of her. And again, in Trump world, I think that that's really important.

And the third thing, I think, it keeps the national media from taking a closer look at her record in South Dakota. I mean, she's not very good at being governor. I mean, she isn't even able to persuade her own super majority Republican House and Senate to eliminate the sales tax on food.

[09:50:06]

I mean, here in South Dakota, we pay a sales tax if you buy baby formula or you buy, you know, baby food.

SMERCONISH: So, former President Trump's favorite pejorative is to speak of someone, like a dog. That senator from South Dakota, he joked like a dog, this like a dog, cheating like a dog. He's not a dog guy, right?

I'm curious if she maybe thought, hey, with Trump, it's going to be just fine. I'm not going to lose any points with him

NESIBA: Again, I think that this story was aimed at an audience of one, and I think she likely got his attention. We'll see. Unlike the rest of the world, I think, that Donald Trump is likely to still find her appealing.

SMERCONISH: So, how does this play at home? I know how this plays, you know, in the northeast, where I am, on the Acela Corridor dog people were like horrified. I'm sure she would say, well, you're a bunch of snowflakes and you don't know what goes on in rural America. So how does it play in South Dakota? NESIBA: Yes, when I talk to folks here, Republicans mostly don't want to talk about it at all. But this isn't the first time that she has done outrageous things or things that her own caucus disagrees with.

I mean, she took us off of the COVID emergency here in South Dakota early and it cost South Dakota families over $100 million in enhanced SNAP benefits. She refuses to use a little bit of state general fund money to allow us to have Summer EBT to feed hungry kids. So, in some ways this is, you know, part of a pattern of she lacks empathy.

SMERCONISH: OK. Can we stand up for the goat? I mean, the goat apparently had it coming because the goat got Noem's kids clothes dirty, and her shot wounded the goat. She had to go back and get a second shotgun shell and then take down the goat. I don't hear anybody speaking up for the goat. You get the final word.

NESIBA: Yes, I have no idea why she would include that story about the goat in there as well. But maybe she does -- she likes to clean up messes. Again, I think she's trying to keep you all from -- the national media, generally, from looking at her record in South Dakota. I think, there's all sorts of stories there that are worth --

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: All right. We can -- we can walk and -- we can walk and -- we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Hopefully, we will do both. Senator Nesiba, thank you so much for being here.

NESIBA: Thank you, Michael. Honor, to be here. Have a great Saturday.

SMERCONISH: You too. Let's check in on your social media comments. From the world -- I mean, it sounds like the beginning of a joke except it's not funny. Like, have you heard about the South Dakota governor, the dog and the goat?

Governor Noem would have been well-served to listen to the words of Harry Truman, who famously said, if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog, not kill a dog, says Joe Cleary.

Yes, it's just wacky but -- my first instinct was to say, you only tell this story if people at home know the story and it's coming out. Now, I got to read that book and see what other damage control is contained in it.

Still to come, more of your best and worst social media comments. And don't forget on today -- to vote on today's poll question. Do you agree with Bernie Sanders that the campus protests over Israel may be Biden's Vietnam?

Remember if you subscribe to my daily newsletter, you not only get great exclusive content, you'll get to see cartoonists like Rob Rogers at their finest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:04] SMERCONISH: Well, that's cool. That's a live shot. They look like they're having fun. University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, the Wolverine class of 2024. Good for them, good for them. Yes, it is the season. It is the season.

So, here's the poll result from today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Do you agree with Bernie Sanders? Oh, pretty close. Do you agree with Bernie Sanders that the campus protests over Israel might be Biden's Vietnam? Fifty-five percent say, no, that's not going to happen, 28,801 votes cast. If you've not yet voted, go and vote. We'll leave it up for the remainder of the day.

More social media reaction now from today's program. What do we have?

Yes, answer to the poll question, been saying this for weeks. Netanyahu will be POTUS' downfall.

Millennial -- 'millennials rule,' I don't know. I was making a comment earlier today that I think that Netanyahu, politically speaking, was on the ropes, and that the campus unrest here in the states is actually reviving him. And that was the whole point of the conversation that I had at the outset of the program, reflecting on what transpired in '68. Hubert Humphrey loses the election to Richard Nixon because there's this rallying by so-called, you know, law enforcement types who abandon Humphrey if they were Democrats and they go for Richard Nixon.

And what you saw this week was President Biden speaking and, I think, trying to thread that needle of being against authoritarianism and respecting free speech rights. They're trying to, you know, placate the base, the youthful base of the Democratic Party. But also saying that destruction on college campuses wouldn't be tolerated, and trying to appease those working-class voters that he needs in Pennsylvania, Michigan, or Wisconsin. It's complicated.

Here's more social media reaction. Vietnam protesters were justified. These people are anti-American nuts not knowing the facts.

[10:00:00]

I'm not going to embrace that. I respect their right for peaceful demonstrations. I really do. I think when they become occupiers of a campus, and I said this here last Saturday, and they intrude on the university to get the university's business done, like that live footage we just showed from Ann Arbor. You know, at a moment that you've crossed the threshold and you don't allow classes to take place and finals to exist, and your -- your other students and faculty members to do what they're there to do, which is get an education, then I think you've -- you've gone too far.

All right. Keep voting on today's poll question. Thank you for watching. I'll see you next week.