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Smerconish

Sources: Hostage Release Could Happen Overnight Sunday Into Monday; Hamas Releasing 48 Hostages, Israel Freeing 2,000 Palestinian Prisoners; Gaza Ceasefire Holding, Israeli Forces Pulling Back. U.S. Enters 11th Day Of Government Shutdown; Government Shutdown Shows No Sign Of Ending Soon. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 11, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:30]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: A rare moment of quiet in the Middle East, a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas now in its second day. I'm Michael Smerconish from the Philly burbs. Today, thousands of Palestinians are returning to the north of Gaza, walking through rubble and ruins to find what's left of their homes. Israeli troops have pulled back under the terms of the deal, though some forces remain inside Gaza to enforce Hamas's disarmament. And as aid trucks line up by the hundreds, Hamas' affiliated security forces are back on the streets of Gaza City reasserting control as fragile peace talks take hold.

The agreement calls for the release of 48 Israeli hostages many believe dead in exchange for nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners. One source telling CNN the release could begin as soon as overnight Sunday into Monday. President Trump says he'll be in the region to monitor all of it.

Let's bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond. He's in Tel Aviv's Hostage Square.

Jeremy, nice to see you. What do we know about the hostage release?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect that those hostages could be released as early as this weekend with the absolute drop deadline for Hamas to release those hostages being Monday at noon because that is the end of that 72 hour countdown since Israeli troops completed their partial withdrawal in Gaza for Hamas to actually release those hostages. But indeed a source familiar with the matter is telling us that it appears that the hostages could be released overnight Sunday into Monday, which would of course allow for President Trump when he arrives in the region on Monday to perhaps meet some of those hostages. Something that I think we should be prepared to see on Monday.

SMERCONISH: I referenced the Palestinians who are returning home. They are returning home to complete devastation. What happens then? DIAMOND: Yes, that's absolutely right. And over the course of the last 24 hours, we've been watching as tens of thousands of Palestinians have begun to trek back towards Gaza City and northern Gaza using the very same coastal road where just weeks earlier they were going in the other direction, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were being forced to flee Gaza City amid this advancing -- this Israeli offensive in Gaza City. But many of them on the road were hopeful about what they might return to. But once they arrived in many of These neighborhoods that had been devastated by the recent Israeli offensive in Gaza City, so many of them arrived to find nothing but ruin left in that area.

And it really is just a reminder of the very long road ahead, not only to make sure that this cease fire that President Trump was able to strike here will actually endure and lead to a total end of this war in Gaza, but also the years that is -- are going to be required to rebuild the Gaza Strip altogether.

SMERCONISH: I know how complicated a visit this will be for President Trump, is it possible that he steps foot in Gaza? What do we know of what exactly he's going to do?

DIAMOND: As of now, we have no indication that the president is going to be going to Gaza. I think if he were just, you know, putting my previous White House correspondent hat back on, it wouldn't be something that they would announce in advance. So we'll certainly be prepared for that possibility. Right now we expect the president to spend some time here in Tel Aviv, perhaps where he will meet some hostage families or maybe even some of those recently released hostages themselves. And then we also expect him to deliver an address at the Knesset, Israel's parliament.

After that, he'll head to Egypt where he's going to have an official signing ceremony for this cease fire agreement that helped broker, as well as a broader summit to talk about Gaza's future, which interestingly will not only involve other Arab countries in the region, but also a host of European countries. Clearly an effort by this White House to continue to build on the momentum of the cease fire agreement to build an enduring peace not only in Gaza, but perhaps across the region. Michael.

And Jeremy, finally for now, what's known of the Palestinian prisoners who are being released?

DIAMOND: Well, we understand that there will be 250 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences in Israeli prisons who will be released in addition to 1,700 Palestinians who were detained in the Gaza Strip. Now, of those 250 Palestinian prisoners, many of them are indeed responsible for terrorist attacks, planning them or attempting to carry them out in Israel against Israeli troops, but also against Israeli civilians. Of the Palestinians detained in Gaza, many of them have been held without trial, without charges, and they include individuals such as doctors from local hospitals. But in fact, we've been told now that two prominent doctors, including Dr. Hussam Abu Safiyah, the director of a hospital in Gaza, are not expected to be released as part of this according to a source inside of Hamas. That will, of course be a disappointment for many in Gaza who have been hoping that he would be released in exchange for this.

[09:05:19]

But more broadly, I think it's important to note that this is the kind of price that many Israelis are prepared and knew that they would have to pay to release in particular those Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences. And from speaking with many Israelis, it's a price they're happy to pay given the fact that it will secure the release of those 48 hostages who've been held in Gaza for more than two years. Michael.

SMERCONISH: Jeremy Diamond, live in Tel Aviv, thank you so much.

Let's break all of this down now with New York Times foreign affairs columnist Thomas L. Friedman, three time Pulitzer Prize winner, author of the bestselling book "From Beirut to Jerusalem."

Tom, nice to see you again. This line that you wrote recently sums it all up. This really is the last train to somewhere decent and the next one and all those ever after will be non-stops to the gates of hell. Amplify that, please.

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, you know, Michael, we see in this region now Palestinians able to develop an army through Hamas with all kinds of weapons. We see drones, you know, all over the place now coming from Iran. I could only imagine what the next wars will be like. Neither side can afford them. Neither side can afford to take years off from development in the world.

That's for starters. For secondly, this war has basically shown that to me that there is simply no alternative but some kind of two state peace arrangement, separation between Israelis and Palestinians. And I know it's destroyed trust on both sides like never before. But I do believe when the war is over, when the -- when the dust settles, that people on both sides will say to themselves, because this was so incredibly awful, the worst, most devastating war between Israelis and Palestinians ever, that we have got to find a way out of it. I hope that I believe it.

SMERCONISH: So on that issue, I find the 20 point plan to be a remarkable document in a good way. I -- I've compared it to the Constitution insofar as it's very deliberate and yet, as you well know, it's very unspecific, it's very vague in certain areas. Speaking for example, of the aspiration of the Palestinian people for their own homeland. What's your thoughts specifically on that issue? The lack of anything concrete in that document pertaining to what you just referenced, a two state solution.

FRIEDMAN: Well, Michael, I think when they drew up this document, the administration and I think wisely realized two things. One is in order to get the front end, the prisoner release, the ceasefire and the hostage release, they could not weight to nail down everything in the back end. So, and I think they were wise to do that, get it going, because that creates its own weather, it creates its own new dynamic. I think that was smart. At the same time, look, the stronger party here was Israel.

It was the one occupying Gaza. It was the one keeping the war going. And therefore, the document had to tilt towards satisfying the political needs of president -- Prime Minister Netanyahu, which it did by keeping all these questions of a two state solution and the future negotiations with Palestinians slightly vague. Now, we're going to nail those down. But the President, I think, has a lot of leverage here.

Leverage because no one wants to go back to war. Leverage because he's assembled a coalition of Arab allies and Muslim allies from Turkey to Saudi Arabia to the UAE and Egypt that really are interested in a deal and could put a lot of pressure on Hamas. So, you know, this is, to me, the best chance we have going forward. It's going to be super hard. Everyone knows that.

But I do think there is a framework here not only to solve this moment, Michael, but what they're doing -- they're basically saying this conflict can no longer be solved at the level of the two parties. There is no trust between them whatsoever anymore. All the years of trust have been stripped. So the only way we're going to solve this is if the west bank and Gaza are ultimately ruled by some coalition of Palestinian, Arab and international forces working together. That's the only way we will remotely get anywhere toward a true separation between Israelis and Palestinians.

So I think the model they've settled on is actually quite creative and smart and has a lot of potential.

[09:10:05]

SMERCONISH: Was President Trump uniquely qualified to broker this deal insofar as he knows the Arab partners, he does business with some of the Arab partners. And with regard to Prime Minister Netanyahu, as Tom Friedman wrote, Netanyahu played into Trump's hands by putting himself entirely in Trump's hands. Your thoughts?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. Well, Netanyahu basically told the world to get lost. He told the Democratic Party to get lost. He told Biden to get lost. He told even moderate Republicans to get lost.

And when he did, he was only left with Trump as his supporter. I think Trump is, as I wrote, uniquely able to do this for two reasons. One, he does have very strong relations with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE, whatever. One reason he has strong relations with them and Netanyahu is that Trump really doesn't care about their human rights records, their Democratic, you know, aspirations. He deals with them as a business deal.

The only questions he asks basically, are you with me, you know, and will you support where we're going? And if you are, you're great, you're wonderful. And it could be even Hamas, even -- put out an overture to Iran. So Trump's kind of willingness basically to not check anyone's, you know, Democratic credentials and his willingness to really put Bibi's arm behind his back, having supported him other ways, I think was what the chemistry that brought this together. SMERCONISH: And I appreciate the way in which you're willing to give the president his props. I think justly earned in this circumstance, you call balls and strikes. That's why I love having you here. And at the same time, you lament that he's not calling for an American, American deal. In other words, why not bring some of this same sense that he exhibits overseas to home, where right now the government is shut down?

A final thought from Tom Friedman.

FRIEDMAN: Yes. You know, we've had Camp David Peace Treaties, Michael, in the Middle East. Right now we need an American, American peace treaty also forged at Camp David. I'd love to see the president call the Democratic leaders up, Republican leaders, take them all up to Camp David, put the arm on each of them the way he has in the Middle East, use the leverage of Wall street and workers across America and tell them, boys and girls, we are not coming down from Camp David until we have an agreement. And it's time we stopped burying the hatchet in each other's backs and started putting it into the ground.

SMERCONISH: Thomas L. Friedman from the New York Times, we appreciate you. Thank you for coming back.

I want to know what everybody who's watching thinks. Go to my website at Smerconish.com, answer todays poll question, very simple, will the Gaza deal lead to peace between Palestinians and Israelis? Social media reaction. You can hit me up on social media, find me on all the usual platforms, including X and YouTube.

Sadly, there will never be longstanding peace. Any ceasefire ultimately becomes a reload.

I hope you're wrong. You probably hope that you're wrong. I love the way that Tom Friedman characterized this as being, you know, the last time the train is leaving the station. But perhaps a unique opportunity because finally now President Trump, giving him credit, has been able to get all the necessary parties not only at the table, but to make some concessions that heretofore have not been possible.

Up ahead, the government shutdown is set to enter a third week. Which side blinks first? We're soon to find out. And who might the dealmaker be? I'm looking forward to asking former Senator Joe Manchin.

I wish he were still in that room. Plus a commentary from me on why the left seems to be having a meltdown over the new editor of the chief of CBS News. Don't forget to sign up for my newsletter at smerconish.com when you're voting on the poll question. You'll get the work of prize winning illustrators including Scott Stantis.

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[09:18:18]

SMERCONISH: It's a media bombshell. Bari Weiss is the new editor in chief of CBS News, causing celebration in some circles and consternation in others. Those noisemakers, they're largely on the right. You'd think that someone who self identifies as center left and is a member of the LGBTQ plus community might be greeted with open arms by Democrats, but the opposite is true. New York Times columnist Jamelle Bouie posting on Bluesky, quote, it's "a heartwarming story of how being an unethical and talentless hack is no barrier to success when you are willing to endlessly flatter the wretched views of rich dipshits."

He's not alone in his alarm. Just take a look at some of these headlines and word is that CBS News employees are not exactly rolling out the welcome wagon. One allegedly said this feels like some sort of doomsday. Another told the Guardian, "A throwing up emoji is not enough of a reflection of the feelings in here."

So who is Bari Weiss and why is she causing such strong reactions? Forty-one years old, she's worked at the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. She was known as someone who was willing to take on the left for becoming too strident, too extreme. In 2020, during widespread rioting, the New York Times printed an editorial by Senator Tom Cotton. You might remember this.

He argued that it might be a good idea to send in the military to quell riots, a fairly popular idea with the public. This was considered so controversial, even harmful, by workers at the Times that they revolted. Weiss tweeted that this was an ideological battle between free speech advocates and young social justice warriors. Her colleagues den not accept this explanation and argued that people like Weiss were basically trolling liberal readers and putting out pieces that harmed the New York Times legitimacy. The fallout was so great that Editor James Bennet, who published the piece, resigned.

[09:20:07]

And a month later Bari Weiss resigned feeling bullied by her colleagues and not protected by the paper. She also accused the Times of being biased. Then she started a popular substack newsletter, eventually called the Free Press, also the name of her media company. She's become one of the most successful of a new crop of media platforms, in part because of her willingness to be a critic of the legacy media, as she calls it, which she has just joined. And this year, newly formed merger Paramount Skydance, run by David Ellison, son of billionaire Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison, purchased the Free Press for $150 million and put Weiss in charge of CBS News.

At present, there are rumors that David Ellison might purchase Warner Brothers Discovery, the parent company of CNN. Day one on the job, Bari Weiss distributed a list of 10 core principles that should guide the news division. Here are the first three. One. Journalism that reports on the world as it actually is.

Two, journalism that is fair, fearless and factual. Three, journalism that respects our audience enough to tell the truth plainly wherever it leads. Nothing controversial that I see in any of that.

Perhaps a better insight into what's to come at CBS can be found in Weiss's words eight months ago, before there was any indication that she'd be tapped to invigorate the Tiffany network. Last February, Weiss traveled to London, where she addressed arc, or the alliance for Responsible Citizenship, whose leadership includes Niall Ferguson, Douglas Murray, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Weiss delivered a speech that she titled against the Vandals, and this was Bari Weiss's explanation of what happened politically, worldwide and in the U.S. over the last decade. It was both an autopsy of the left and a cautionary tale for the right. She believes the left failed to police its ranks, enabling outsized influence from its extreme elements.

Here's her explanation of the last decade, quote, "A few years ago, nearly every millennial in nearly every influential seat in America decided that police departments descended from slave patrols. So were told we had to abolish the police. We had to abolish prisons. They said the existence of America was a crime that we had to do, land acknowledgments before every meeting and declare our gender in email signatures. They said that degrowth and socialism were the only way to go and that too many kids would kill the planet.

They said that Marx, who none of these people actually bothered reading, must be revered and that our founders, whom they had no interest in outside of a Broadway show, must be reviled there were riots, they tore down statues. What didn't get renamed got transformed entirely from within. Eventually people got tired of this insanity. Normal people, the people who decide elections, have their limits."

Bottom line, Bari Weiss believes the left lost because the far left destroyed the center left. And you can guess who doesn't want to hear that, the perpetrators on the far left. But they aren't the only ones who should be nervous about the ascent of Bari Weiss. So too those on the far right for whom her London speech was a warning. As she put it, "This group says that we're in a war here at home.

And that because it's war, because the stakes are life and death, the normal rules of the game must be suspended. They say those who don't go along are squishes or traitors or were secret leftists all along. Or they accused them of being conservative or Republican in name only, which is a version of false consciousness Marxists were so fond of telling people they suffer from. They say that it's not enough to return to normal, that returning to normal isn't an option, instead, it's time to give the other side a taste of their own medicine. They say they were treated cruelly and so cruelty is the necessary response.

They say the thing that we are trying to conserve has already been destroyed and perhaps never even existed at all. They say that reform is a loser strategy and that the whole thing needs to be burned down. Like the far left, they have no use for history but judge people living and dead in the ideological light of presentism or simply reimagine them from scratch."

So, who are the real vandal as referenced in Bari Weiss' speech title? It was a reference to those on the left who've torn down statues of Winston Churchill and those on the right who've improperly invoked his name, claiming he's the villain of World War II. In short, speaking in London to a friendly audience long before being tapped to lead a legacy outlet, she was erudite, independently thinking, an equal opportunity offender, or as she told CBS employees in her opening memo, item number six, "Journalism that holds both American political parties to equal scrutiny."

[09:25:07]

Her arrival at CBS could not come at a better time. The data suggests there's a market for this type of independent journalism that Weiss is promoting. According to Gallup, in its most recent party identification survey, 43 percent of Americans regard themselves as Independent, compared to 28 percent who say they are Republicans and 28 percent who ID as Democratic.

Isn't it about time somebody tried to sell sneakers to independence? So to Bari Weiss, good night and good luck.

Let's see what you're saying via social media. You can find me on X, you can follow my YouTube channel. Subscribe to my YouTube channel, as a matter of fact.

Betatesting, any move that is done to reposition journalism along the Weiss 10 point memo is a welcome change. I think CBS already has great talent, so let's see if this is more of a slight shift than a sea change.

I agree. The 10 points, pull them, access them. There's nothing controversial about them. But I think far more telling is the speech that I referenced that you can also find that she delivered in London, presumably long before she had any idea that she might end up running CBS News.

I want to remind you, go to my website at smerconish.com, answer today's poll question very simply, will the Gaza deal lead to peace between Palestinians and Israelis? We certainly hope so.

Still to come, the government shutdown shows no sign of ending. Is there someone who might be able to break the gridlock? I'll ask former Senator Joe Manchin. And be sure to sign up for my smerconish.com daily newsletter for which Steve Breen created this illustration.

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[09:31:15]

SMERCONISH: Here's some of your social media reaction to today's program thus far.

Agree with Friedman's support for awarding POTUS the Nobel Peace Prize if his 21-point Gaza war peace plan actually lasts, but not sure how to justify it in the context of someone who flouted democracy and human rights at home following January 6, 2021 and now ongoing ICE raids.

Darrel C., I'll tell you this. Yesterday, the poll question at Smerconish.com, you know, I love my poll questions. And so, I asked the audience and I discussed on radio. I knew by the time that we posted it that President Trump did not receive this year's Nobel Peace Prize. And really, he couldn't, given the timing and the deadline for the nominations. Theoretically, he could have, but not for Gaza and the peace agreement.

So, I asked the audience yesterday if the peace lasts, if this agreement holds a year from now, should President Trump receive a Nobel Peace Prize? More than 35,000 people voted, not scientific, but interesting nonetheless, and in round numbers, 75 percent said, no, which I thought was more reflective of Trump derangement syndrome than anything else.

I've looked at what Alfred Nobel's will actually says and character is not expressly stated. It speaks of establishing fraternity among nations. So, if he's able to do something that no one else was prepared -- able to do, prepared and able to do, if a year from now the peace has held, then he ought to be the recipient of a Nobel Peace Prize.

That, to me, is a no brainer. And hopefully, he'll provide the same level of engagement and lean on Putin and bring about some resolution with Ukraine.

More social media reaction. What do we have? From the world of, show it to me, X.

You cannot be a man of peace when you are blowing up boats off the coast of South America and turning your own country streets into a -- country's streets --

I get it. I mean, this is the criticism of people who aren't willing to look at this chapter solo and instead more broad based and taking into account the, quote, unquote, "threat to democracy" -- I'll tell you something I think. I paid close attention to the live announcement of the Nobel Peace Prize and the opposition leader in Venezuela being the recipient. And I thought that the wording of it, the way in which they were bestowing it, was to also send a message to Trump because of the wording pertaining to democracy. Just my two cents.

One more. What do we got? Real quick, real quick. Here we go.

The body of work speaks for itself. People may find him off putting but he obviously is effective at negotiating peace and he is, at a minimum, deserving of consideration, right, for getting the --

I agree with that. I mean, I agree. Hopefully -- I love the part of Tom Friedman's recent piece where he says, if peace holds, of course, Trump is worthy. I'm paraphrasing. But why can't he bring those talents to home at a time when the government is shut down?

Speaking of which, still to come, 11 days into the government shutdown, both Republicans and Democrats showing no sign of compromise. What's it going to take to make a breakthrough? I have the perfect person to ask. Former senator from the great state of West Virginia, Joe Manchin, joins me in just a moment.

And make sure you're voting on that poll question at Smerconish.com. Will the Gaza deal lead to peace between Palestinians and Israelis? While you're there, sign up for the newsletter. It's free, it's worthy, and you get the work of illustrators like Rob Rogers. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:58]

SMERCONISH: It's a game of chicken between Republicans and Democrats, each side slinging blame for the government shutdown now in its 11th day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We sent over a totally clean measure that they had already voted for before. In fact, that Chuck Schumer gave impassioned speeches as recently as March of this year. The same instrument, the same one that he said was the right thing to do and that it must be done so Americans don't feel harm. He said that earlier this year.

So, we sent him the same instrument, assuming, hoping, of course, believing that they would do what has always been done here and pass a clean CR. And they didn't. So, I don't have anything to negotiate. There's nothing more for me to do.

I literally don't have a card that I can take off the deck, because we did it all in good faith. They're the ones politicizing this. They're trying to play a game. We're not engaging in a game.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: So, now we're in a government shutdown. And you may be asking yourself, how the hell did we get here? Donald Trump and the Republican Party are hell-bent on taking health care away from 60 million people, closing community clinics, rural hospitals, nursing homes, all so they can keep giving tax breaks to their billionaire friends.

[09:40:05]

It's a disgrace. So, Democrats have three words for this. No (EXPLETIVE DELETED) way. It's literally life or death, we will not let Republicans blow up our health care system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: And if there was any beacon of hope that the shutdown might end soon, it dimmed yesterday. Speaker Mike Johnson announced the House is canceling next week's session altogether. Saying lawmakers won't return until the Senate turns the lights back on.

Let's bring in somebody accustomed to this gridlock and how to -- how to defeat it, former West Virginia senator Joe Manchin, author of a brand-new book, "Dead Center: In Defense of Common Sense." Actually, senator, let's go there first because in reading the book, page 120, 121, there's a discussion of Almost Heaven. What a great boat name especially for you. And you say, I've had some incredible evenings on that boat. Evenings that reminded me of what politics should be.

And then you discussed the rules for the boat. What were the rules when you were pulling together a gathering? JOE MANCHIN (I), FORMER WEST VIRGINIA SENATOR: Well, the rules were if you brought three Democrats down, you had to bring three Republicans. So, when anybody wanted to come to dinner and I would invite I say, just find a housemate with you, find someone across the aisle, and let's get together.

So, we'd come down and we'd have a nice dinner with some -- with some refreshments. And we'd be talking and a lot of it wouldn't be about business And then it would go about business, how we get along, but we got to know each other better.

And at the end of it -- the end, every evening, the end, Michael, what we did, we would get in a circle on top of the boat there, and we would all hug each other in a big circle and have Lee Greenwood, proud to be an American. And that was how we ended up --

SMERCONISH: It's much easier -- it's much easier to demonize someone when you don't know them. And I've long said from a distance --

MANCHIN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: -- that what's most lacking in Washington today is nobody's breaking bread, nobody's having a cocktail. Gone are the days that you relocate your family and everybody across the aisle get to know one another.

So, now you're gone. Who can we count on to recreate the spirit of Almost Heaven?

MANCHIN: Well, Almost Heaven is still there. It's still down at the wharf, and they're welcome to come down. I told them I'm going to keep it there. It'll be a gathering place and we want to use it more, I think, and invite people down again like we did.

You got Chris Coons. My dear friend Chris is coming on with you, I think, on this show. Chris is a good man. There's a lot of good people there that want to do the right thing.

You're right. It's easy to say no when you don't know someone. It's hard to say no to your friends. When you build relationships, you're looking to get to yes. And that's the bottom line that we're trying to find out now.

You never shut the government down. All you're doing is admitting, Michael, that you can't do your job. And here's what my Republican friends need to understand. You have the trifecta.

The president is a Republican. The House is Republican majority, and the Senate is a majority. That means you have the mantle. You have the leadership responsibility.

Leadership is not easy. You've got to bring people together. Now, I heard Mike Johnson saying, Speaker Johnson saying, we've done our job. Back in March, they voted to extend it through a CR.

What happened in the seven months? How many negotiations? How many people have been sitting down? How many Democrats and Republicans have been trying to find this pathway forward?

Health care is broken in America. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare didn't fix it. What it did, it allowed people with preexisting conditions, people on the low end of the social ladder, if you will, working poor -- people that have incomes of 35 -- $45,000 to finally have insurance without having to use the emergency room.

This is what it did. And then somebody had to pay for it. The people that are paying for it now got relief by the way of the COVID. When COVID came in, they expanded it. Democrats expanded it to 400 percent. Republicans want to take it back.

It's hard to take things back. Maybe you can do it over a little bit of time. There's a couple of bills floating around but to me they've got -- they have got the strategy right now if they'll just get people in the room. If you want to wait one more year, if you want to cut it down to 200 percent, do some things but you're going to have to fix -- the underlying problem is American health care system is broken. Everyone is not receiving it the same way. And if you can't pay, you can't get --

SMERCONISH: But senator -- senator, a quick response to that. To me, it violates the time and place rule. First of all, something else I appreciated in your book. I appreciate when a public servant like Joe Manchin says, I got it wrong.

And relative to Obamacare, there's a whole discussion in this book where you say, I got it wrong. And let me tell you why I got it wrong.

I want to preserve the Affordable Care Act. I think that in the abstract, it's a framework that works.

MANCHIN: Sure.

SMERCONISH: And my quarrel -- actually, am I right that you never voted for a government shutdown? I mean, if you were still there, you wouldn't be on board for shutting down the government.

[09:45:03]

You'd be saying, let's -- let's deal with the Affordable Care Act outside of this framework, or am I wrong?

MANCHIN: No, you're absolutely correct. I've never voted for it. And I started early enough trying to get enough people understanding, what do you prove by it?

Our friend Ted Cruz, on the Republican side, shut it down in 2013. Ask Ted how well that worked for him. Ask anybody on the Republican side when they were basically the ones that shut it down.

Now, they're saying the Democrats aren't dealing in good faith. The Democrats want to deal in good faith, and that's find -- find a compromise. Don't say, it's my way or the highway. That never works. You know, they know that too. And no one wants undocumented people that came to this country and have not come in the right way for immigration to have all the aspects of our health care system or our geopolitical process that we try to treat everyone equally until you become a citizen.

I understand that, and they should say, we're not doing that. But there are some things that led to the belief that they were pretty open-minded about things like that, and that's harming the Democrats.

SMERCONISH: From 2020 -- from 2021 to 2023, like, you were the man. You held all the power because you were an independent and they all had to come to you.

And what I've been saying on my radio program and here on CNN and anywhere anybody who'll listen to me is, I wish there were a handful of Joe Manchins. All it would take is three to five Joe Manchins, and then everybody would have to come to you to deal. And we could water down the extremists at both ends of the spectrum. How do we get there?

MANCHIN: Well, first of all, I've always had a -- my north star was always, if I can't go home to my little hometown of Farmington, West Virginia, and explain it to the people that raised me, the people that loved me and nurtured me and took care of me, if I couldn't explain it to them, I couldn't vote for it.

And you have to have that strength within you that when you're sitting in the Oval Office and the president of the United States asks you to do something and you don't agree, you've got to say it in the most respectful way that you possibly can. I'm so sorry. That doesn't make sense.

This is a representative form of government that we have, a democracy which is still an experiment. And the people that I'm representing will not accept that. That doesn't make sense to them or me either.

So, that's how I've done. And I've been able to be truthful up -- always up front with people. And they always come to me and they say, I know, Joe. If it doesn't make sense, you're not going to vote for it.

And I say, you're absolutely correct. Does this make sense to you? Are you doing it because of political pressure? Come on.

And the bottom line -- here's what we need to do.

SMERCONISH: I know but I --

MANCHIN: You and I agree on --

SMERCONISH: Go ahead.

MANCHIN: You and I agree seriously on some --

SMERCONISH: Well, I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated. Look, I'm trying to -- I'm trying to give voice to the 43 percent who regard themselves as independent. And I believe that you, I wish you'd have done it sooner, but I believe that you were the real deal as an independent.

I have respect for Angus King but, you know, he caucuses where he caucuses. And Bernie's not an independent, even though he calls himself as such. He runs for president as a -- as a Democrat.

And I'm just trying to make the point here that if there were just a handful of men and women in the Senate who truly were Manchin-like, the country would be in a hell of a lot better position. Unfortunately, I've just eaten up all of your time. I thought the book was --

MANCHIN: Michael, let me say this real --

SMERCONISH: Go ahead. Take the final 30 seconds. Go ahead, say it.

MANCHIN: Let me say real quick on this -- not have a representative form of government when we independents can't even participate in -- we have to have open primaries. So, we have a body of people that are willing to run and have a chance of winning. We've got to change the primary process. They're locking us out and we've got to change that.

SMERCONISH: Yes. Well, you may or may not know that I'm the lead plaintiff in trying to get that done right here in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, because we are one of those closed primary states. All right. We'll continue this conversation, I hope.

MANCHIN: Right behind you.

SMERCONISH: Thank you. Thank you.

MANCHIN: Right behind you.

SMERCONISH: Thank you. OK. The book is called "Dead Center" and it's terrific. Checking in on your social media comments. What do we have?

If it is not apparent already, Trump controls his party. Trump hates ACA. This is Trump's shot at killing it. Damn the cost to Americans. I remind people that Trump bankrupted five companies. Left the creditors -- taxpayers --

Look, I said it last week and I don't feel like repeating the monologue. I'm for the Affordable Care Act. The idea -- here I go. Here I go. Now, I am repeating it.

You know, what's the idea? It's not socialism. The idea is everybody needs to have insurance. You're going to hoist your Gadsden flag because you don't want to have health insurance? Then don't ask me to pay for you when you show up at the ER, OK? That's my view.

Everybody get in the pool. And if we're all in the pool, then we can insure people with preexisting conditions. By the way, young invincibles, you have to get in the pool, too. And then we all go to an amazon like exchange, and we buy our health insurance from private insurers. I've just explained it better than any of the public servants have who voted for it over the last, you know, 15 or 20 years. [09:50:01]

I don't know why I get worked up over this. I really don't. You still have time to vote on today's poll question at Smerconish.com. Have you voted yet? Have you voted that? Bringing it down, bringing down the temperature. Will the Gaza deal lead to peace between Palestinians and Israelis? I pray that it will.

Subscribe to my newsletter while you're there. It's free, it's worthy, and you get the work of editorial cartoonists like Jack Ohman.

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SMERCONISH: OK. There are the results so far of today's poll question -- you're bumming me out. A bunch of Debbie Downers. Will the Gaza deal lead to peace between Palestinians and Israelis? Thirty-two thousand have voted so far, 86 percent saying no.

I'm in the 14 percent. My glass is half full. My glass -- and it's not just because I'm praying and wishing for it.

[09:55:00]

I really believe there's a shot this time and I hope I'm right. And I'll bet all of you hope that I'm right, even the 86 percent who voted otherwise. I'm sure we all are in this and saying, we hope it sticks.

More social media reaction. What do we have?

Nothing against the deal that President Trump made but history states there will never be lasting peace in that region. There will always be another extremist jihadist organization waiting in the wings to disrupt the stability.

Well, I've worried over the course of the last two years, in particular, but the last -- since 9/11 and before then, the more that it perpetuates, then it becomes ingrained and kids grow up hating the other side, and it just becomes part of their DNA. But maybe this can break it. Maybe this can break it.

More social media reaction. Follow me on X. Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

There will be peace between Israel and the Palestinians when they both admit they've done atrocious things to each other and the path of mutual destruction has benefited no one.

Or, Ed, or when, you know, the Arab world sits on Hamas and an American president keeps an Israeli prime minister in line the way Trump has been doing recently. Real quick, one more. I'm going to get to it. Hurry. Here we go.

Stop the political BS. Senate and House need to stay at the Capitol until they compromise -- amen. Like get on Manchin's boat. Fire up Almost Heaven. Put them on the boat and let's work this out like adults. It's so embarrassing. We look like a banana republic with our country shut down. Enough. Hey, if you missed any of today's program, you can always listen anywhere you get your podcasts. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next week.

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