Return to Transcripts main page

State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Interview With Special Envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired February 23, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:41]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): New world order. President Trump flips the script on America's friends and foes at a moment of truth for Ukraine.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very good talks with Putin, not such good talks with Ukraine.

TAPPER: Has he already picked a side?

TRUMP: We better be close to a deal.

TAPPER: Trump sent my next guest to meet with Vladimir Putin and to negotiate with both Russia and in the Middle East. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff is next.

And feeling blue. Democrats try to launch a new resistance.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It's an all-hands-on-deck effort.

TAPPER: But Democratic voters are not feeling the spark. What more can the party do to take on Trump and ignite their base?

House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me.

Plus: backlash. As constituents sound off...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tyranny is rising in the White House.

TAPPER: ... Trump urges Elon Musk to up the ante, while his administration purges more watchdogs. Will he overstep? Our panel of experts is here to discuss.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, D.C., where the state of our union is reeling. What a month.

Just a few weeks into his second term president, Donald Trump has rapidly and fundamentally changed America, just this weekend, a purge of top leaders at the Pentagon raising questions about whether independent voices might still be valued there. And, overnight, federal workers more on edge after Elon Musk ordered

them all to justify their employment in an e-mail or be fired. Now, this morning, Trump's changes on the global stage, with the future of Ukraine and European alliances in the balance.

Overnight, Russia attacked Ukraine with a record number of drones. This is just before the three-year anniversary of the bloody war that Putin launched. But as Trump sends more signals he's losing patience with Ukraine and President Zelenskyy, his administration in a proposed U.N. resolution is refraining from condemning or even acknowledging Russia as the aggressor in this conflict or expressing belief in Ukraine's territorial integrity.

President Trump has elevated his longtime close personal friend Steve Witkoff to the center of some of his biggest global challenges. Witkoff has been a central negotiator with Russia. He met directly with Vladimir Putin. And just before Trump took office, Witkoff negotiated the Israel-Hamas cease-fire and is currently working on phase two.

U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff joins us now.

Thank you so much for joining us. I don't know. Do I call you Mr. Ambassador, Special Envoy? I'm not sure what to call you, but I will call you Ambassador Witkoff.

Let me ask you. Hamas freed six hostages yesterday, and they turned over the body of Shiri Bibas. That's the Israeli mother who was kidnapped with her two children on October 7 and killed in custody by Hamas, according to the Israeli government.

Israel is right now delaying the release of 620 Palestinian prisoners -- quote -- "until the release of the next hostages has been assured and without the humiliating ceremonies" -- unquote -- Hamas has been staging.

What does this all mean for phase two of the cease-fire? Do you expect phase two to go forward?

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: We do expect it, Jake, to go forward. We have to get an extension of phase one. And so I will be going into the region this week, probably Wednesday, to negotiate that.

And we're hopeful that we have the proper time to finish off -- to begin phase two and finish it off and get more hostages released and move the discussion forward.

TAPPER: You met with Ron Dermer, the former ambassador from Israel to the United States and a close confidant of Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Do you believe that Netanyahu wants to move forward with the cease- fire? Or does he want to resume the war to try to eliminate Hamas?

WITKOFF: I believe the prime minister is well-motivated. He wants to see hostages released. That's for sure. He also wants to protect the state of Israel.

And so he's got a red line. And he said what the red line is. And that is that Hamas cannot be involved in a governing body when this thing is resolved. And so I think he's trying to square the circle on both of those things.

But we have talked extensively, Ron and I, the prime minister, and everybody is focused on bringing people home alive.

[09:05:02]

TAPPER: So is the red line Hamas can't be part of any governance of Gaza, or is the red line Hamas can't exist?

WITKOFF: I would say, at this point, for sure, for sure, they can't be any part of governance in Gaza.

And as to existing, I'd leave that detail to the prime minister.

TAPPER: Let's turn to Ukraine.

The White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, told reporters yesterday that President Trump feels -- quote -- "very strongly that Russia is willing to make a deal" -- unquote -- and that he's -- quote -- "very confident we can get it done this week" -- unquote.

Is that true? Are you that close to a deal with Russia and Ukraine to end the war completely?

WITKOFF: Well, I would say, Jake, just first, generally, that you're seeing a lot of movement in Ukraine, in the Middle East, and I think it's in large part because people are responsive to President Trump. So -- and that's fundamental.

It's -- I think it's guiding almost all negotiations out there in these sectors. So it's a big -- it's a big data point.

Second data point is the way Marc Fogel came out. President Putin -- and I commend him for it -- was -- there was -- it was a little bit squirrelly on that day that Marc came out. Certain things needed to be done and President Putin was very, very flexible in his thinking, released him, and I think it was a huge signal to President Trump that he wants to get a deal done.

Our conversations in Saudi Arabia with the secretary of state and with the national security adviser were, in my view, positive, constructive, and clearly momentum-building. So I would say that I'm optimistic and positive, just as the president is, that we can get something done rather quickly.

TAPPER: I think everybody watching can understand the need for diplomacy and especially President Trump wanting to reset the relationship with Russia.

But what do you say to the millions of Americans and people around the world who are concerned that the United States right now doesn't seem to understand who actually launched this war against Ukraine and is actually trying to side up -- sidle up to the bad guys, Putin and the Russians, while screwing over the good guys, Zelenskyy and Ukraine?

I think that is a fear that a lot of Americans have.

WITKOFF: Well, look, I have heard that kind of talk. I don't necessarily agree with it.

But let me say this. I will make a few comments. The first is that the war, irrespective of whose story it, needs to end. Too many people's lives have been expunged as a result of it. And it just doesn't make sense to the president. He wants to be the peacemaking president, peace through his strength.

And I don't blame him. I actually concur right down the line with his thought process around this. That's one.

Two, that the war didn't need to happen. It was provoked. It doesn't necessarily mean it was provoked by the Russians. There were all kinds of conversations back then about Ukraine joining NATO. The president has spoken about this. That didn't need to happen. It basically became a threat to the Russians.

And so we have to deal with that fact. And those are real facts on the ground here. But, be that as it may, the Russians have indicated that they are responsive to an end to this. There were very, very what I will call cogent and substantive negotiations framed in something that's called the Istanbul Protocol Agreement.

We came very, very close to signing something. And I think we will be using that framework as a guidepost to get a peace deal done between Ukraine and Russia. And I think that will be an amazing day.

And the fact is, the president understands how to get deals done. Deals only work, Jake, when they're good for all the parties. And that's the pathway that we're on here.

TAPPER: Of course, just to remind your viewers, Russia seized Ukrainian territory in 2014 with Crimea. They have been going into the Donbass region and seizing land in Eastern Ukraine long before they attacked three years ago, when they did the full-frontal assault.

You just suggested Russia was provoked. Trump is publicly attacking Zelenskyy as a dictator. He blamed him for starting the war in the first place, called for new elections in Ukraine, took NATO membership for Ukraine off the table. He said it's unlikely Ukraine will be able to get back its territory seized by Russia.

Russian state TV suggests that President Trump is getting all of this straight from his conversations with President Putin. Take a listen.

[09:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When Trump is answering questions about the press conference, I think it is not a coincidence that many of the narratives that are being voiced largely materialized after their conversation.

The phrases he is saying are so deep and so correct. They are in total alignment with the way we see things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you think it's good that the Russians think that the Trump administration is in total alignment with the way Putin sees things?

WITKOFF: I think we have had, Jake, by my estimation, almost a million-and-a-half deaths here.

And, finally, we have a leader -- that is President Trump -- who is determined to end the carnage. And so the only way you are going to end the carnage is if you have a relationship with the leaders of both countries that are involved.

I was -- I went over to Russia. I had a meeting with President Putin. It was a long meeting, positive, constructive. Lots of good things got discussed, in large part because the president enjoyed a positive relationship with President Putin from his first term in office.

And that then evolved into a positive conversation with the president on a telephone call from the White House. And then there was a positive conversation with President Zelenskyy. So I think you have got to have these relationships. You have got to have communication. That is the only way you get deals done.

TAPPER: So, President Trump wants President Zelenskyy to give the United States sweeping access to Ukraine's rare earth mineral deposits as repayment for all the aid the U.S. has given Ukraine.

Zelenskyy rejected the original proposal. He suggests that Ukraine needs to get more assurances from the United States of future support and security guarantees. Where do these negotiations stand?

WITKOFF: Well, Jake, let me say this with regard to the mineral rights agreement.

The president came into office and, lo and behold, what did he find out? That we are the majority share of the aid to Ukraine, so we're funding it, and we were funding it with no arrangement to pay it back. Alternatively, the Europeans, who were most affected by this war, were funding the minority share, and they had agreements to pay it back.

So, as is typical of the president -- he's very, very sensible. He said to himself, that makes no sense to me. Why would the American public, taxpayers here, be funding the majority share, not get anything back, the Europeans funding the minority share, they get everything back?

So this agreement is much about repayment for all that we have done on behalf of the Ukrainian people. And that's the way the president sees it. I expect to see a deal signed this week. You saw President Zelenskyy waver in his commitment towards that a week ago. The president sent a message to him. He's not wavering anymore.

I think there's a reason he's not wavering. It's because he realizes that we have done so much and that that agreement belongs being signed. And I think you will see it signed this week.

TAPPER: President Trump has been putting a lot of pressure on Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, as you just noted, and laying out the concessions Ukraine will have to make to end of the war.

What concessions will Russia have to make?

WITKOFF: Well, I think, in any peace deal, each side is going to make concessions, whether it's territorial concessions, whether it's economic concessions. I think there's a whole array of things that happen in a deal.

And you will see concessions from both sides. And that's the president's -- that's what he does best. He brings people together. He gets them to understand that the pathway to peace is concessions and consensus-building. And I think you're going to see a very successful result here.

We have been struggling with this conflict for 3.5 years. No different than Gaza, the president has basically said to himself, we need something more purposeful. What we have been doing in the past has not worked. Now it's time to get something to work. And if we get something to work, then we're going to have a lot less life -- we're going to have life saved and both peoples in both countries are going to live in a better way.

TAPPER: The biggest difference, as I see it, between the two conflicts are that there's also this question of the European alliance when it comes to the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

The front-runner to be the next chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, warned European leaders that they must -- quote -- "prepare for the possibility that Donald Trump will no longer uphold NATO's mutual defense commitment unconditionally." That's part of the NATO Pact, an attack on one is an attack on all.

You're a close adviser to President Trump, a close friend of his. If Russia attacked a NATO ally, would President Trump honor the United States' commitment under Article 5 to defend allies in NATO?

[09:15:11]

WITKOFF: I -- I think the president has -- has never said anything of the sort.

I think what he said is, is that NATO exists, that the U.S. has always supported NATO, that we've supported it by funding more money than the European countries have in the past, and yet he continues or Americans continue to be criticized for not standing up.

I just -- I just don't understand the rationale behind that. We've done more than most. TAPPER: So, Friedrich Merz is just wrong?

WITKOFF: Yes, I just think it's unfair, actually.

TAPPER: All right, Ambassador Witkoff, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. It's very nice to meet you. Congratulations on getting Mr. Fogel out of Russia. It's a great thing to have him back home.

WITKOFF: Thank you, Jake. Thank you so much.

TAPPER: Democrats may have a chance to block President Trump in Congress. Are they going to take it? House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me next.

And Trump urges Elon Musk to be more aggressive. As Republican lawmakers face some anger back home, do they agree?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:41]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE DEXTER (D-OR): I don't swear in public very well, but we have to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Trump.

(MUSIC)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We will win! We will win! We will win!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Democrats trying to find the best way to counter President Trump, as they faced some tough headlines this week, for example -- quote -- "Democratic Party Leaders Are Asleep at the Wheel," and a new Quinnipiac poll showing only 21 percent of voters approve of Democrats in Congress. That's an all-time low in that poll.

Joining us now is House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries.

Leader Jeffries is so good to see you. I don't know if you could hear, but -- or could see, rather, but the instrumental portion of the bump- in was an interpretive dance protest outside the Kennedy Center.

I have to ask you. President -- I'm sorry -- Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro from your neighboring Commonwealth of Pennsylvania told "The New York Times" about congressional Democrats -- quote -- "They are failing to address the real concerns that people have. They're failing to do what is their fundamental responsibility constitutionally, to be a check."

That's a pretty harsh assessment of Democrats' first month in the second Trump administration. What's your response? JEFFRIES: I have no idea what the governor was talking about, so

you're going to have to ask him for clarification.

Here's what I know. Here's what the facts are. Donald Trump's poll numbers aren't going up. They are coming down, particularly as it relates to his management of the economy. That's a direct result of the fact that House Democrats and Senate Democrats have made clear that we are working to drive down the high cost of living.

We believe we have to make America more affordable. We believe that we should be relentlessly focused on improving the quality of life of everyday Americans. Donald Trump is a chaos agent who promised to lower costs, lower the high cost of living in the United States of America, and he's doing the exact opposite because he's not focused on it.

He's unleashing chaos on the American people. We are not losing in court. We are actually winning in court. The Trump administration is losing. We are partnering on at least 79 different lawsuits that have been brought related to about 35 different illegal or unconstitutional executive orders.

And the Trump administration continues to lose in court after court after court. And that effort will, of course, be on.

But House Republicans, they have been on the run. They are feeling the pressure of the fact that their policies are deeply unpopular with the American people. And we have seen that play out this past week all across the country. And Democrats are going to continue to make clear that we will stand against the effort to end Medicaid as we know it, stand against the effort to detonate Social Security or Medicare, certainly stand against the effort to undermine veterans' benefits or nutritional assistance to children and families.

TAPPER: Yes.

So it may be -- it's certainly true that President Trump's poll numbers are not in a great place, although they're higher than they ever were in his first term. But congressional Republicans' polling is about 40 percent. Congressional Democrats' polling is about 20 percent.

So that's an issue for you. And then you mentioned policies here. On Tuesday, House Republicans are set to hold a vote to overhaul the tax code. They're going to cut spending on Medicaid and food assistance.

Now, just in terms of the numbers, you and the Democrats only need three House Republicans to jump ship and join you and block any of those measures. If what President Trump and the congressional Republicans are proposing is so extreme, have you been able to convince any of those three Republicans who are in Kamala Harris districts to join you?

JEFFRIES: Well, that process is certainly ongoing.

And as we saw play out all across the country, House Republicans are now being held accountable for the extreme positions connected to this reckless Republican budget. And, understand, this budget is a betrayal of working-class Americans, of middle-class Americans, and of everyday Americans.

They want to jam $4.5 trillion worth of tax cuts down the throats of the American people to benefit their billionaire donors and wealthy corporations. And at the same time, they want to stick everyday Americans with the bill by ending Medicaid as we know it, undermining veterans' benefits and doing the type of things that Americans not support.

[09:25:10]

And so we only need three House Republicans. There are 215 Democrats in the House. We only need three to stand up on behalf of their constituents. And that is going to be an ongoing effort over the next few days to identify those individuals.

TAPPER: Well, it's not tough to identify them. I mean, there's Fitzpatrick in Pennsylvania. Kamala Harris won his district. And Don Bacon in Omaha, Kamala Harris won his district.

I mean, but I have not seen anything to suggest that Democrats have succeeded in winning over any of these Republicans.

JEFFRIES: Jake, you're talking about three different individuals. We're talking about 25 to 30 different individuals who are in the toughest districts all across the country.

And as you have seen, for instance, Representative David Valadao from California made clear he's very uncomfortable with these Medicaid cuts. We have seen other Republicans speak about the challenges that they have. Representative Malliotakis right here in New York City has made clear she's very uncomfortable with these Medicaid cuts that are being proposed, because they are harmful.

They will close hospitals in rural America, in urban America. They will shut down nursing homes. They will hurt children, people with disabilities, and seniors.

TAPPER: Speaking of shutdowns, the government is hurtling towards a possible federal government shutdown now less than three weeks away.

There are likely going to be enough Republican no-votes, no, they don't want to keep the government open, to shut down the government. Usually, the far right Freedom Caucus and the like always vote no on funding the government.

So, unless Democrats provide Speaker Johnson the votes to bail them out, the government will shut down. What is the strategy? Are House Democrats going to vote to keep the government open? Or are you just going to let the Republicans be in charge of all of it?

JEFFRIES: Well, first of all, we will cross that bridge when we get to it, because, as we have been discussing, we have to stop this reckless Republican budget from going forward. And that's going to be on the floor on Tuesday.

Now, there are ongoing discussions being led by Rosa DeLauro, top Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, to see if an enlightened agreement can be reached in advance of March 14. And we will see what takes place.

What we do know is that the Republicans have the House, the Senate and the presidency. It is their responsibility to fund the government.

TAPPER: Mayor Adams of your home state of New York -- home city of New York is under intense scrutiny this week. There's this alleged quid pro quo with the Trump administration. The Trump administration has moved to drop the federal corruption charges against Adams.

And this is supposedly done in exchange for cooperation from Mayor Adams when it comes to enforcing procedures against undocumented immigrants. This alleged quid pro quo has been so stark, so upsetting to so many people, eight federal prosecutors in the Trump administration and four city deputies in the Adams administration have resigned over this.

I know you have expressed concern about what's going on, but just a yes or no, do you have confidence in Mayor Adams to lead New York City?

JEFFRIES: Eric Adams has the responsibility to decisively convince the people of New York City that he's solely focused on their interests and not doing the bidding of Donald Trump and his administration.

TAPPER: You are one of the two leaders of the Democratic Party. Is it not important for Democrats, while criticizing Donald Trump for various allegations of corruption, to be able to call it out in their own party?

JEFFRIES: As I indicated, that Eric Adams has the responsibility to make it clear to the people of New York that he's got their interests top of mind, and solely their interests.

Now, with respect to the criminal justice side of this situation, there is an ongoing federal court case. The judge has appropriately appointed someone to argue against the Department of Justice's efforts to dismiss the charges, and we will see what happens in the context of that case. It will be premature for me to say anything about the charges that may or may not go away until then.

TAPPER: Before we go, Donald Trump made repeated comments this week about possibly serving a third term, calling himself a king in a social media post.

Do you take that seriously or do you think he's just trolling people, trying to get them upset?

JEFFRIES: Donald Trump is intentionally unleashing extremism and outrageous things on the American people to try to disorient everyday Americans. Donald Trump is not a king. We will never bend the knee, not now, not

ever. And we will continue to point out that he's focused on the wrong things. He's not focused on improving the quality of life of everyday Americans or driving down the high cost of living.

[09:30:03]

Democrats are committed to making life better for every single American in every single community in every corner of this great country.

TAPPER: Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries from the great state of New York, thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. Thanks for coming in.

JEFFRIES: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Is President Trump replacing top military leaders with yes- men?

My panel weighs in on that and much more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: This is the chain saw for bureaucracy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There will be no one to take a pumper truck out to do the glamorous job of pumping out a 1,000-gallon toilet?

[09:35:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't know if they're going to have the staff to run the campgrounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

After Elon Musk put down his chain saw, he picked up his phone and posted -- quote -- "Consistent with President Trump's instructions, all federal employees will shortly receive an e-mail requesting to understand what they got done last week. Failure to respond will be taken as a resignation" -- unquote.

My panel is here with me.

And we should note that tweet came after Trump told Elon Musk to be more aggressive.

What's your take on that? SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I don't --

I'm not against being more aggressive. I think you actually could learn a thing or two from Clinton going back to the '90s.

We have a Republican-controlled House, Republican-controlled Senate. Maybe you bring them in on this and pass legislation to appropriate funds to help expedite some of those early retirees. And then I also think, strategically, you give Republicans in the House the opportunity to go back to their districts and say, look, we're saving you money. We're doing a great job.

We have a very slim majority. I would like to see that majority increase. So I'm thinking about the long term versus the short term.

TAPPER: There's also this inner fight, because there are agencies that, in response to Elon Musk's tweet, are sending out notes saying, you don't have to do that, including Kash Patel, the new head of the -- director of the FBI.

"The FBI, through the office of the director, is in charge of all of our review processes and will conduct reviews in accordance with FBI procedures. When and if further information is required, we will coordinate the responses. For now, please pause any responses."

I mean, that is some cognitive dissonance within the Trump administration.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. And I think that, especially someone like the FBI, where they're dealing with counterintelligence information every day, that -- the Department of Justice had a similar note that went out to certain employees, especially in the Criminal Division and the National Security Division, because they're dealing with grand jury information.

If you disclose grand jury information, that could end you up -- put you in jail.

TAPPER: Like, you would put like a -- here's what I'm doing. I'm going into this in this counterintelligence about the terrorist Abu, whatever, yes.

HINOJOSA: Exactly.

And there are thousands of investigations at the Department of Justice. Most of them, this table and the American public don't know about because they have to get kept secret in order to protect the investigation. And so, yes, we should not be sending counterintelligence information, national security information, grand jury information to Elon Musk and the White House.

And the 25-year-old that is sifting through this information has no reason to know any of this investigative information.

KRISTIN DAVISON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, you call it discord between the White House and the agencies, but I'd prefer to call it creative tension. And so, a year from now, we're not going to remember the e-mail that

Kash sent to Elon or to his staff. What we are going to remember is the tone that changed. This is what Americans voted for. This is something that has been long overdue in government. Americans are tired of doing the same thing over and over again to get waste and bureaucracy and basically things running at a lackluster pace.

And so what they will remember is the fact that President Trump, with the help of Elon Musk, was able to change the tone, the pace and the efficiency of government.

TAPPER: What do you think?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, for like the first couple of weeks, they will, until these cuts really start hammering home.

Here's the problem, and I have always been for smaller government. I mean, but the difference is you have to do it, like, smartly. What you don't do is say, every probationary employee is fired because that's easy to do, because I can do that myself.

What you're doing is, you're basically destroying the whole next generation of government workers. It's like what you had after 9/11, where there was a whole kind of missing generation of pilots after that because people weren't going to pilot training from 2001 to 2010.

You're going to have that in the government. And the government is all of a sudden going to find that it has an age problem. And then, when people -- Social Security checks -- or, as a veteran, they're firing people at the VA hot line, the suicide prevention hot line, which, by the way, three years ago or so, we plussed up because too many veterans were killing themselves.

Now, all of a sudden, we're cutting that because we want to save a few dollars. I'm all for it. This is the wrong way of doing it. And Elon Musk smiling and giggling on the stage of CPAC with a chain saw, that is going to come back in every commercial against every Republican candidate about, yes, you didn't get your Social Security check on time or you know veterans that have taken their own life. This guy was laughing about it on the stage with a chain saw.

And that's going to be...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: You disagree?

DAVISON: Well, I mean, you could say we got to cut smartly. Then why haven't we done it for the last 30 years?

We Republicans control -- I mean, when you were in Congress, why...

(CROSSTALK)

KINZINGER: So, you would rather do it dumbly. Let's cut dumbly. (CROSSTALK)

DAVISON: No, I think Elon Musk is a disrupter. It's what he does. He's not part of government. It's to break glass and change. He's already said we're going to make...

(CROSSTALK)

KINZINGER: But there's a legal way to do it, and there's an Elon way.

Elon is -- I mean, they have been stopped at every end by the courts, by the way. And then, when they haven't, they're sitting here laying off probate -- if you think laying off all the probationary employees, including people that have moved up and now were in a different spot, is a smart way to go about government, great.

I mean, it's fine. I'm not upset about that. I'm just telling you, in a year or two, we're going to pay the price for that. And the reaction is going to be doubling.

(CROSSTALK)

[09:40:02]

SINGLETON: I mean, Adam, I think it's kind of too early to say, right?

I mean, look at Kash Patel's statement. Let us do our own analysis and assessment.

KINZINGER: I agree.

SINGLETON: And then we will bring you guys in to figure out line by line who we cut, where we cut.

And I at least want to give Elon a little more time to kind of figure this out. It's only been a couple of weeks. I get your point about blanket firing. I run a business. I certainly wouldn't just fire people without knowing who I should fire and why.

But I think, over time, they're going to figure that out.

HINOJOSA: Well......

TAPPER: So -- go ahead.

HINOJOSA: Well, it's one thing to make cuts here and there. And I completely agree that our government can be more efficient. And I think we can all agree on this panel.

But when you are cutting national security officials, when you are cutting people from law enforcement agencies, that makes us less safe. We're in a heightened threat environment. Elon Musk doesn't have time. If he is cutting people in these critical positions, God forbid that we have a terror attack, because we don't have the proper law enforcement officials in place trying to prevent that terror attack. TAPPER: I want to get your view, because you're an Air Force veteran.

Continuing his purge, President Trump fired the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General C.Q. Brown, who's an Air Force general, as well as several other top officials. This comes after Hegseth, Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, has repeatedly accused General Brown of promoting DEI and -- diversity, equity, and inclusion in the military.

And Hegseth has even questioned whether he got promoted, General Brown, just because of his race. But just as a counterpoint, here's a recruitment ad from the Air Force that General Brown made a few years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. C.Q. BROWN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: When I'm flying, I put my helmet on, my visor down, my mask up. You don't know who I am, whether I'm African-American, Asian American, Hispanic, white, male or female. You just know I'm an American airman kicking your butt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I don't know a huge amount about General Brown, other than he's an Air Force veteran and has a distinguished record, but that doesn't seem to be a DEI message.

KINZINGER: Now, here's what people miss in the DEI conversation.

I fully agree nobody should be promoted above somebody else because of their race, right? Everybody should be treated the same as an American. The difference is, like, that commercial, to me, is not saying, hey, if you're white, don't come be an Air Force pilot because you're not going to get the job.

It's saying, hey, if you're an African-American kid and you have grown up in a tough environment and you don't think you're capable of going and flying for the Air Force, guess what? You can.

I have a buddy that runs a program called Tuskegee NEXT, takes young African-American kids out of the inner city, teaches them to fly airplanes. And if you're a pilot now, you're making $250,000, $300,000 a year. He has revolutionized these kids' lives.

So, like, that is a good thing to tell people that may not see themselves in the cockpit of an Air Force jet, you actually can fly. By the way, you will be held to the same standards as Adam Kinzinger.

The president has a right to fire whoever he wants in the Pentagon. I'm not going to argue with that, because he is the commander in chief, but that sends a very chilling message and one that concerns me and should concern a lot of Americans.

TAPPER: We just got this in. President Trump has called for new elections in Ukraine. A moment ago, President Zelenskyy was asked if he was willing to leave office in exchange for peace. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Yes. I will start with the latter. If you really need me to leave for the sake of peace, I'm ready to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So there he is saying that he'd be willing to resign for the sake of peace.

SINGLETON: Hey, look, I think that the idea of having never-ending wars is something that the most Americans, vast majority of Americans are just not comfortable with.

However, I'm just cautioned to cede too much ground to Russia. I mean, Russia and China have been strengthening their relationship for about a decade now. That certainly is in the U.S. interests, particularly as China increases its military spend to modernize its military.

We're seeing their actions in South China Sea. We're seeing their actions across Africa. We're seeing them across South America. So that should really worry the administration. I do applaud the president for trying to find a resolution to this. I just think the resolution cannot give an upper hand to Vladimir Putin.

KINZINGER: Jake, can I just say real quick, Ukraine is winning this war. Ukraine has killed four times as many people as they have lost. Russia has lost twice as many people as the U.S. lost in World War II. And to defend, as a defending country, all you have to do is keep defending.

TAPPER: All right, the Trump administration is systematically removing independent inspectors general from the White House. Why? That's next.

And our thanks to our panel.

Thanks so much for being here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:21]

TAPPER: As part of President Trump's purge of top military leaders Friday night, he also moved to replace judge advocates general, or JAGs, at the Army, the Navy and the Air Force.

JAGs are the military's top lawyers. They administer the Military Code of Justice and, perhaps most relevantly, as Biden's former Secretary of the Air Force Fred (sic) Kendall noted -- quote -- "These are the generals who have the independent legal authority to tell any military commander that an order from the president or the secretary of defense is unlawful and cannot be obeyed" -- unquote.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth refers to JAGs in his book as jagoffs, saying that JAGs put their own priorities -- quote -- "in front of having the backs of those who are making the tough calls on the front line" -- unquote.

During his first term in 2019, President Trump, at the urging of Hegseth from his perch at FOX and others, Trump pardoned several service members facing high-profile war crimes allegations, against the advice of the top leaders of the Pentagon.

But it does not seem enough for President Trump and his team to be able to overrule those in his administration who might enforce guardrails or provide oversight. They don't even seem to want them there to begin with, because Trump's push to squash oversight did not begin with the firing of the JAGs.

Among his very first acts as president was to fire 18 inspectors general. These are the independent government watchdogs who provide oversight of Cabinet agencies.

Why would Trump want to get rid of all of them, 18? He hasn't explained, as he's legally required to do. What would those inspectors general have to say about the ethics and the legality of the mass firings going on? We don't know. They were fired first, including those, according to a "New York Times" analysis, at 11 federal agencies with more than 32 continuing investigations, pending complaints or enforcement actions into companies owned by Elon Musk.

[09:50:30]

So what is the response to that from the head of the Office on Governmental Ethics, which monitors financial conflicts of interest across the government? Well, we don't know because Trump fired him earlier this month.

You starting to sense a theme here? Independence in the Trump administration does not seem to be valued. In fact, it seems to be denigrated.

On Tuesday, Trump signed a far-reaching executive order expanding the White House powers over supposedly independent agencies, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Federal Election Commission. These are areas that Congress intended to not be under direct presidential control.

Given the compliant nature of the legislative branch and thus the so- called Oversight Committees -- and, yes, Senator Grassley, I remember when you cared about inspectors general -- one has to ask, what is the endgame here when it comes to this Trump effort to remove watchdogs, to prevent them from doing their jobs?

What does he not want you, the American people, what does he want you to not know about what's going on in your government?

Political cartoonists take on this week's news. Some of our favorites after the quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:28]

TAPPER: Sunday funnies now, political cartoons we saw this week.

This one is called "The Ukraine Peace Plan" by Michael Ramirez for "The Washington Post," President Trump and Putin carving up Ukraine like a piece of meat.

Here's a cartoon by Adam Zyglis, who has the lawmakers on Capitol Hill sticking their heads in sand as democracy crumbles.

Another by Drew Sheneman for "Tribune." He's drawn Democrats telling the MAGA monster -- quote -- "You shall not pass. I mean, I'm not going to stop you, but someone else might."

Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.