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State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA); Interview With Rep. Suhas Subramanyam (D-VA); Interview With Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT); Interview With U.S. National Security Adviser Mike Waltz. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired March 02, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:12]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): War of words. A shouting match in the Oval Office...

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You don't have the cards.

BASH: ... scrambles the global order.

TRUMP: Make a deal or we're out.

BASH: As Ukraine's president walks out empty-handed, who came out on top, President Trump or Putin? House Speaker Mike Johnson is here, plus the man who told Zelenskyy to leave., National Security Adviser Mike Waltz.

And joint address. President Trump heads to Congress to make his case.

TRUMP: We have a mandate.

BASH: As Speaker Johnson muscles through a key vote, do Democrats have a plan? Senator Chris Murphy is here.

Plus, right-hand man? Donald Trump lets the cameras roll and key players jockey for their chance in the spotlight.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: We are actually tech support.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You should be thanking the president.

BASH: Who's winning Trump's apprentice 2.0? Our panel of experts is here to break it all down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is still picking our jaws up off the floor. We are watching the fallout after a remarkable Oval Office meeting

this past week. The fallout is absolutely continuing. And we saw the shouting match between the president of the United States, the vice president of the United States, and also the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

And it left Zelenskyy's war-torn country in limbo, at an impasse with its most powerful ally, the United States while global friends and foes race to adjust to the new reality under President Trump, a transactional America first foreign policy that may cast aside longstanding alliances.

In two days, President Trump will address a joint session of Congress six weeks into his norm-shattering second term.

Here with me now is the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.

Thank you so much for being here, sir.

You said that what we witnessed in the Oval Office was an American president putting America first. What does America first mean to you? Does it mean that America's role in the world is no longer to support democracies when threatened with tyranny?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): No, America first is everything that that phrase implies.

I have always considered myself a Reagan Republican. I believe in the idea that he used to articulate well that, after World War II, America had a very certain responsibility. We're the last great superpower on the planet. It's very important that we maintain that status.

But we cannot maintain that status unless we maintain our own strength. And we achieve peace through strength. That was also a Reagan doctrine. So, what President Trump is doing is restoring that principle. He is a strong hand returned to the White House in a very perilous time on the world stage.

We have to bring about an end to this war in Ukraine. Putin is the aggressor. It is an unjust war. We have been crystal clear about that. But now is the time to bring it to an end. And what President Trump was trying to do in the Oval Office when Zelenskyy acted so inappropriately, in my view, was to offer them an agreement that would be a win-win-win across the board.

The mineral rights agreement is a fantastic solution to bring about an end to this conflict. And I would have hoped that President Zelenskyy would have understood that and showed some gratitude.

BASH: I want you to listen to what your fellow Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said. She had some pretty harsh words for the strategy and what she witnessed in the Oval Office.

She said -- quote -- "I know foreign policy is not for the faint of heart, but, right now, I'm sick to my stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies and embracing Putin, a threat to democracy and U.S. values around the world."

I want you to respond to that. And, also, you just said very clearly that Vladimir Putin and Russia, they are the aggressors. We have not heard that from President Trump recently.

JOHNSON: Well, I think he's been very clear on that. And I think Senator Murkowski's view on this is plainly wrong.

The person who walked away from the table yesterday was President Zelenskyy. I mean, I -- look, I have been involved in a lot of bilateral meetings like this with heads of state and dignitaries. There's a certain protocol to these events.

But for him to act as he did was rather shocking to everyone. I mean, President Zelenskyy, instead of showing gratitude, he interrupted and berated his hosts at a very perilous time for his country. He should have been anxious, I think, to enter into this agreement.

Think of it. The mental rights agreement would be a win-win for both countries. It would give us an economic interest there, and everyone around the world knows that America will always defend our interest and our people. It would have -- we would have created an economic partnership with Ukraine at a time when it needs to be reemerging.

[09:05:09]

BASH: Yes.

JOHNSON: And that would have been a great thing. And I don't understand why President Zelenskyy would not accept that gratefully.

And I think it's a big mistake, and I hope he changes his mind, because we have got to bring an end to this conflict.

BASH: Well, it sounds like he still does want that deal. And what he was trying to say -- and I'm not going to argue with you about the way that he said it. Certainly, there was yelling on both sides, as anybody who watched it could see.

But his concern was the security risk that Ukraine is under. And he doesn't feel confident that anybody should trust Vladimir Putin.

Do you think that President Trump should be trusting Vladimir Putin?

JOHNSON: President Trump said very clearly, trust but verify.

I mean, he is trying to be the change agent to breaker -- to broker a peace and an end to this conflict. And you have to have both parties at the table to do that. You have to negotiate with both parties. And there has to be a willingness on both sides to bring it to an end.

BASH: Yes. I just...

JOHNSON: Look, President Trump has shown he will not tolerate someone not fulfilling their end of a deal. And I think that this deal, the time has come. I think it's in the interest of America, of Ukraine, Russia, all of our European allies and everyone. So I'm very hopeful, as the president has said, that President Zelenskyy will come back to the table and recognize that peace is the solution here.

BASH: Less than a year ago, you risked your speakership to support more aid to Ukraine. You were pretty emotional, saying that history judges us for what we do.

Now do you think the United States should halt military assistance to Ukraine?

JOHNSON: Well, remember, as I said then and have said consistently until today, the entire point of providing the aid was to allow Ukraine to sustain itself and position them for peace negotiations.

The whole idea behind it was to hold the line to eliminate the deaths of women and children and innocent people in their country until President Trump could return to the Oval Office. I was convinced that that was going to happen and that he would be the one that was powerful enough, strong enough on the world stage to bring both parties to the table.

That is exactly the moment that we are in now. The plan worked, but now Zelenskyy has to follow through. And the fact that he acted as he did, I think, was a great disappointment. I hope it's not the end of it.

BASH: Last question on this, and then I want to turn to what's going on, on the Hill.

What is your view of Vladimir Putin?

JOHNSON: I think Vladimir Putin is an old-school communist, a former KGB agent, and he's not to be trusted, and he is dangerous.

The way I view this is that China, Russia, Iran and North Korea are engaged in a new axis, axis powers, and they are not on America's side. Let's be crystal clear about that. You have to walk circumspectly in these perilous times on the world stage.

But America is back. America is strong again.

BASH: Yes.

JOHNSON: And that is good for us and for freedom-loving people around the world.

BASH: Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about your plans for what you and the president call one big, beautiful bill. You had a big win this week in the House. You narrowly passed a key vote for that sweeping budget plan to do a lot of things, including extend tax cuts, slash federal spending, at least give the parameters to do that.

When you met with the president and the Senate majority leader, John Thune, this week, did you get a sense from the Senate leader that he is going to continue with the plan that you propose? Because there's, as you know, some pushback in the Senate.

JOHNSON: Well, there was a little initial pushback just on the strategy, but I will say this very clearly. There is no daylight between the House Republicans and the Senate Republicans. We all have exactly the same idea and mission.

And that is to deliver the America first agenda. The one big, beautiful bill is the vehicle to do that. And as Leader Thune has said, and Senator Lindsey Graham, Senator Ted Cruz, and others who were initially in favor of a different strategy, of a two-bill strategy, they acknowledged the importance of the House leading on this, I think.

And I believe we're ultimately going to combine forces and get the one big, beautiful bill done.

BASH: Yes.

JOHNSON: I think the effort is to get it done -- the idea is to get it done by the end of April and get it to the president's desk for signature, because that will provide much-needed relief to the American people, economic relief, stability for business owners and people who have to make decisions going forward.

And in that same bill, Dana, we will do all sorts of things, make sure the border is secure. We will get American energy dominance going again. We will reduce red tape and cut down the bureaucracy in this country that the American people want us to do, and, again, move one step forward even further in restoring peace through strength.

So it's a critical piece of legislation.

BASH: You met this past week with Elon Musk for several hours, I believe, on the White House complex.

Did you talk to him about, when you pass the bill to keep the government running, at least you hope it will -- you will do so, that you will include cuts in that that mirror what he is trying to do, big cuts, in some cases almost eliminating agencies?

[09:10:15]

JOHNSON: Yes. We're going to need a few more weeks, maybe a month or more, to qualify and quantify and then codify what Elon Musk and the DOGE effort is all about, and that is eliminating fraud, waste and abuse in the government.

He genuinely believes they may be able to find as much as $1 trillion. And that is going to make a big difference, obviously, in the budgeting for the federal government and the appropriations process going forward. I think most of that will be for the...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Does he show you what he's doing?

JOHNSON: Yes, he has. He's shown me many of the examples of the outrageous abuses.

And I'm telling you, Dana, when the American people understand what has been happening with our taxpayer dollars that Congress has been unable to discern even with our best oversight efforts -- Elon has been able to crack the code. He's inside the belly of the beast of the bureaucracy.

And the algorithms are crawling through the data constantly. And what they're finding is incredible.

BASH: And you are confident that things like 800 employees at NOAA and the agency that is responsible for making sure that hurricanes at least are not as devastating because people know about it ahead of time in states like yours of Louisiana, you're confident that those cuts will not end up hurting the American people, they don't go beyond the waste, fraud and abuse that is understandable that you want to eliminate?

JOHNSON: Yes.

What you're going to see is a very careful attention paid to ensuring that the essential programs of the federal government, the things that make sense to American taxpayers and that follow common sense, will be sustained and supported and funded, but that the fraud, waste and abuse will not.

Elon himself has acknowledged, there's no playbook for what's happening right now. This has never been done before. And that's kind of the point. It's why it's so exciting. He understands that some mistakes will be made along the way, but they will be immediately corrected.

And you have seen that, for example, with USAID. There were enormous abuses there that enraged the American people, but at the secretary of state under Marco Rubio's leadership, they're going through literally with a line by line -- on the line items of USAID and they're giving waivers for the programs that do need to be continued, for example, the things that confront Chinese aggression around the world.

Those are the kinds of efforts you're going to see in every agency of the federal government. And that is a great thing for American taxpayers and for the future of our country.

BASH: As we learn more about this, beyond what we're hearing from the federal employees who are getting fired, I would love for you to come back and talk more about it as we get more transparency, which we -- I do hope that we get along with you.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for being here.

JOHNSON: Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.

BASH: My next guest asked President Zelenskyy to leave the White House on Friday, but what does the president want from Ukraine's leader now? National Security Adviser Mike Waltz is next.

And then: Should Democrats skip Trump's big speech? Senator Chris Murphy is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:29]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Ukrainian President Zelenskyy and European leaders are scrambling to revive talks on Ukraine's future.

Here with me now for the latest is the White House national security adviser, Mike Waltz.

Thank you so much for being here, sir.

I want to ask for your view on what the Ukrainian president said after that Oval Office meeting. He repeatedly went online. He thanked the U.S. and President Trump for the help that the U.S. is giving, saying it is crucial to have the president's support, that no one wants peace more than we do.

Is that enough for President Trump to get things back on track?

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, the president took calls from Prime Minister Starmer yesterday. He's also taken a call from Prime Minister Meloni of Italy.

Zelenskyy -- President Zelenskyy is with those European leaders now. Those European leaders are talking to him directly about getting to the negotiation table. What does he need to see to actually negotiate with us and negotiate with the Russians, go to confidence-building measures, go to a cease-fire, and bring this horrific war to an end?

And what was so, I think, stunning to all of us in the Oval Office was that it was not clear Zelenskyy was going to go to negotiations at all, that he would ever be able to negotiate with Putin, and whether he shared our goal of ending this war.

So, what I made clear, as Secretary Rubio and I said, look, this cannot proceed, was that this was a huge missed opportunity for him and for his country. He could have left the White House on Friday on the heels of an engagement with President Macron of France, with President -- with Prime Minister Starmer of the United Kingdom, where they were talking about European boots on the ground, security guarantees for Ukraine, a positive movement towards ending this war, and being -- having Ukraine and the United States being bound together for a generation economically.

But what we made clear was, that could not proceed, at least for now. And President Trump said in his announcement on X, when President Zelenskyy is ready to truly engage for peace, he's welcome back any time.

BASH: So what does the president need? What does President Trump need? Does he need a public apology? Does he want a phone call? Can you be specific in how to make that happen? [09:20:00]

WALTZ: Well, it wasn't clear to us that Zelenskyy was ready to negotiate in good faith towards an end to this war.

For us, kind of talking about the details and demands of security guarantees before, as President Trump said, look, I don't know that we can get both sides to the table at this point, and you can't kind of trash the other side, going -- litigating through the history of this conflict, if we're going to bring both sides to the table.

And so -- and, further, coming to the Oval Office, with the body language, the shaking of head, the kind of -- the arms crossed, we just -- we found it incredibly disrespectful. We were ready to sign that deal.

I want to address directly that this was some type of ambush. It is absolutely false. We had negotiated the minerals deal in the weeks prior. It was difficult, but we -- it was done and finalized and ready to be signed in the East Room.

BASH: So since you have been talking about his body language and his approach, I do want to ask about your view of Volodymyr Zelenskyy, because right after the Ukraine war happened, after Russia invaded Ukraine, to be more specific, you were on CNN, and you called Zelenskyy a 21st century Churchill because of how he was leading the fight against Russian tyranny.

And, yesterday, you called him -- or at least you compared him to an ex-girlfriend who wants to argue everything that you said nine years ago, rather than moving forward. Is that really how you see it now? And do you see at all the perspective that he was trying to put out there, which is that he does not trust Vladimir Putin, and he feels that he needs some kind of security guarantee?

WALTZ: Well, Dana, I would also point out, if we want to do a history lesson Churchill, that he stood and fought for his people.

President Zelenskyy stood and fought for Ukraine. But Churchill was also voted out of office in 1945. He was a man for a moment, but he did not then transition England into the next phase. And it's unclear whether President Zelenskyy, particularly after what we saw Friday, is ready to transition to Ukraine to an end to this war and to negotiate and have to compromise.

BASH: Yes.

WALTZ: And what President Trump said right there that day in the Oval Office is, both sides are going to compromise here. He's made that clear to both Vladimir Putin and Zelenskyy, but it did not appear to us that Zelenskyy was ready to go to peace.

BASH: Yes.

WALTZ: So when he makes that clear to us publicly and privately, that's what -- I mean, that's -- the president is trying to end this war. He campaigned on it.

BASH: Yes.

WALTZ: He was elected on it. And that's going to take tough diplomacy. Who would criticize us?

(CROSSTALK)

WALTZ: But you have members of Democrats that are criticizing us for dealing with the Russians, the same Democrats that had no problem dealing with the murderous Iranian regime in an Iran deal that was horrific and used the Russians as intermediaries.

BASH: Can I just follow up on...

WALTZ: I think you have got one of those senators coming on your show.

So it's -- so I'm finding the kind of hypocritical pearl-clutching in Washington, D.C., to be, well, a bit ridiculous.

BASH: Can I just follow up on what you said about Winston Churchill? Because it is interesting. He was definitely a man for the moment during World War II.

Are you suggesting that President Trump wants Zelenskyy to resign?

WALTZ: We need a leader that can deal with us, eventually deal with the Russians, and end this war.

And if it becomes apparent that President Zelenskyy's either personal motivations or political motivations are divergent from ending the fighting in his country, then I think we have a real issue on our hands.

But, look, Dana, let's ask ourselves, what is this war going to look like a year from now? The patience of the American people to keep giving billions and billions and billions with no end in sight is not unlimited. And we also made that clear to President Zelenskyy at the end of that meeting.

BASH: So you're saying he might be...

WALTZ: So, is time on his side? Is time on the American people's side?

What I'm saying is, this war needs to end, and that's going to take concessions on territory. That's going to take Russian concessions on security guarantees. That's going to take all sides coming to the table. And we are working very hard to drive those negotiations forward.

We had our engagement in Riyadh with the Russians. We are working to have an engagement, we thought, a deal with the Ukrainians, and then we will bring all sides together. That -- only President Trump can do that. BASH: You just mentioned a specific...

WALTZ: And I find it incredulous he's being criticized for that.

BASH: You just mentioned a specific concession potentially that you would like Vladimir Putin to make. Can you elaborate on that? Because we haven't heard any specifics before.

[09:25:07]

WALTZ: Well, we can't get any specifics from the Ukrainians, but this will clearly be some type of territorial concession for security guarantees going forward.

I mean, that has been discussed in previous rounds of negotiations.

BASH: A security guarantee from the U.S.?

WALTZ: And we think that is a broader framework.

BASH: Who guarantees that security?

WALTZ: Well, right now, in under -- so, some first principles. This needs to be a permanent end, not a temporary end. This needs to be European-led security guarantees going forward.

Part of that is Europe's contribution to its own defense, so it has the capability to do so. We have had both the United Kingdom and France talking about their troops on the ground going forward. And then let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. What type of support we provide or not is to be negotiated.

But one thing is clear. We do not see Ukraine being a member of NATO, because that would automatically drag U.S. troops in.

BASH: Right. Well...

WALTZ: But, Dana look, we need to get all sides to the table. And we're very frustrated that we did not see that from the Ukrainians after we had negotiated a minerals deal that would bind us together, grow their economy and change the nature of our aid, so that the American taxpayer could recoup it.

BASH: What are your conversations...

WALTZ: That was all done and ready to be signed on Friday.

BASH: What are your conversations like right now with the Russians, in terms of reopening conversations and perhaps diplomatic normalization, embassies and so forth?

WALTZ: Well, Secretary Rubio's team at a working level have met with the Russians about broadening our embassy operations.

They were virtually shut down on all sides. We don't -- I mean, it's just a practical matter and common sense, if we're going to drive these negotiations forward, our embassies have to be operable. Those conversations are happening.

And we're also having conversations about how they will end and what they need to see to end this war. There will obviously be differences on all sides. And the United States through shuttle diplomacy and the leadership of President Trump will drive forward to bridge those gaps.

Our point is, talking about the fine details of security guarantees is like talking about the details of a warranty before you know if you're going to buy the thing. We're driving both sides of the negotiating table and yet people are trying to put the cart before the horse.

BASH: And last question. There are reports that the Trump administration, you are talking about pausing offensive cyber- operations against Russia. Is that true?

WALTZ: That has not been part of our discussions. There will be all kinds of carrots and sticks to get this war to an end.

BASH: All right, National Security Adviser Mike Waltz, thank you so much for your time this morning. Appreciate it.

WALTZ: OK. Thanks, Dana.

BASH: And Democratic Senator Chris Murphy has been one of the party's most outspoken critics of President Trump. He will be here to respond next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:47]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

My next guest is trying to light a fire under the Democratic Party as they look to counter President Trump.

Here with me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.

Thank you so much for being here.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Sure.

BASH: What's your reaction to what you just heard from the president's national security adviser? Do you think there's hope of salvaging this relationship with Ukraine?

MURPHY: So, it is absolutely shameful what is happening right now.

The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin. Every single day, you hear from the national security adviser, from the president of the United States, from his entire national security team Kremlin talking points.

The last week, the White House has been pretending as if Ukraine started this war. That's essentially saying that Poland invaded Germany at the beginning of World War II. There are still facts in this world.

And the fact is this. Vladimir Putin is a brutal dictator. Russia started this war. And the entire pretext for that meeting yesterday was an attempt to rewrite history in order to sign a deal with Putin that hands Putin Ukraine.

That is disastrous for U.S. national security. That means that China will be on the march. Putin may not stop. America may be at war with a nuclear power. And for what? For what? It appears as if America is trying to align itself with dictators, that Donald Trump wants us to have our closest relationships with despots all around the world, because that makes it easier for him to transition America into a kleptocratic oligarchy, where Elon Musk and Donald Trump rule and steal from the American people.

If we were allied with democracies, that would be harder. But if the United States' closest partner is Russia, then it makes it a lot easier for Donald Trump, Elon, and their billionaire pals to steal from the American people, to steal our data, to steal our Medicare, to steal our Medicaid in order to enrich themselves.

BASH: There was a lot there.

Let me just go back to the notion of trying to end the war. Is there a way to do that without negotiating with Vladimir Putin?

MURPHY: Listen, I have no problem with a diplomatic solution.

[09:35:00]

What Zelenskyy asked, I thought very understandably, in the White House was a simple question. How are you going to trust Vladimir Putin, when he has sat down at the negotiating table multiple times before and never honored the agreement?

What Trump is suggesting is that there is going to be a cease-fire that will require Ukraine to withdraw from the front, which then allows Putin to just march straight into Ukraine.

So, all Zelenskyy asked yesterday was, how do you know that diplomacy will work? And because he had the audacity to ask that simple question, he was ushered out of the White House, contracts were canceled to support Ukraine's electricity grid, and, apparently, the United States is going to do Putin's bidding and hand him Ukraine potentially without a negotiation now.

BASH: I want -- you were part of a bipartisan group of senators who met with President Zelenskyy right before that Oval Office -- one of the other senators there was Senator Lindsey Graham.

I want you to listen to what he said right after the Oval Office meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I have never been more proud of the president. I was very proud of J.D. Vance standing up for our country. We want to be helpful. What I saw in the Oval Office was disrespectful, and I don't know if we can ever do business with Zelenskyy again.

He either needs to resign and send somebody over that we can do business with or he needs to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: A couple things. One is he -- I want you to react to that, but also Senator Graham said that he was trying to help Zelenskyy before he went to the Oval Office, coaching him what to say, what not to say.

Were you part of those conversations?

MURPHY: Well, I can't speak to every conversation that Senator Graham had.

But, yes, I met with President Zelenskyy that morning, and President Zelenskyy was ready to sign that minerals agreement, no matter how insufficient it was, but had an obligation to have a conversation with the president of the United States about the disaster that would be wrought for Ukraine if they signed an agreement that didn't have Zelenskyy at the table and trusted Vladimir Putin.

Vladimir Putin is not to be trusted. And so Zelenskyy had an obligation to raise that issue. And Vance seized on that moment to start a litany of Russia-baked talking points about how weak the Ukrainian army was, about how corrupt the nation is.

The back half of that meeting ended up just being the Kremlin literally driving the message of the White House. It is a sad day in America when we are getting closer and closer to Russia, a brutal dictatorship, and we are getting further and further away from democratic allies. Nobody in America wants that.

People in America want that war to end, but they don't want it to end by handing the entirety of Ukraine to Russia and elevating, elevating the power of a dictator in the Kremlin.

BASH: Secretary of State Marco Rubio was there. He didn't participate in the conversation, but he was with the national security adviser when they asked Zelenskyy to leave the White House after that blow-up.

And he has been very supportive of what happened in that meeting. You voted to approve his nomination to be secretary of state. You still think you made the right choice?

MURPHY: No, it was a mistake. It was a mistake.

I think a lot of us thought that Marco Rubio was going to stand up to Donald Trump on an issue like this, that, when Donald Trump decided to align America with dictatorships, again, in order to make it easier for him to steal from the American people, to turn America into an illiberal democracy in which, just like Russia, the oligarchs, the economically powerful people in America rule, and the rest of us just feed the powerful, I thought, when Donald Trump decided to do that, when Donald Trump would come to him and say, help me move America closer to Russia and to Russian values, Marco Rubio would stand up to him.

Marco Rubio has not, and that's been a great disappointment to many of his former colleagues in the Senate.

BASH: You have been trying to lead your party, lead your colleagues in being aggressive in pushing back, as we have heard a lot this morning, against Donald Trump.

You're skipping his joint address to Congress on Tuesday. You believe other Democrats, House and Senate Democrats, should do the same, and why?

MURPHY: Oh, I think every Democrat needs to make up their own mind.

I think that State of the Union speech is going to be a farce. I think it's going to be a MAGA pep rally, not a serious talk to the nation. I think Donald Trump is going to spew a series of lies about his alignment with Russia, about what he's trying to do to allow Elon Musk to essentially monetize the American government to enrich Musk and his billionaire crowd. And I'm just not going to be a part of that.

[09:40:11]

Listen, the case I'm making to Democrats is that we have to fight every single day, every single day. Republicans flood the zone. Democrats have to flood the zone. They flood the zone with lies. We flood the zone with truth.

We are going to stop this billionaire takeover of government. We are going to stop their destruction of democracy, which they have to do, because what they are attempting to do, gut Medicaid in order to feed another set of tax cuts to Elon Musk and his billionaire friends, it's unpopular.

We're going to stop that billionaire takeover, that destruction of our democracy only by fighting them every single day. A lot of Democrats think maybe you should fight every third day, you should reserve your power and jump out of the bushes at the right moment. I just think that we have to be on the offensive 24/7.

BASH: Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thank you so much.

MURPHY: Thank you.

BASH: Nice to see you in person.

And President Trump did cede the stage this week to two top advisers. Is one of them his heir apparent?

My panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: President Trump has put together, I think, the best Cabinet ever. The president is the commander in chief. I do what the president asks.

VANCE: Have you said "Thank you" once this entire meeting?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: A lot of times.

VANCE: No, in this entire meeting, have you said "thank you"? Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back. My panel is here.

And one of the things I want to put on the table here is whether what we saw between Elon Musk and the J.D. Vance sort of behavior and the theater, if you will, that went into a lot of the substance that really matters is it kind of apprentice 2.0.

Congressman, thank you so much for being here. I will start with you.

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): Yes, right now, I represent a district with a lot of federal workers, for instance, and a lot of people who touch foreign policy.

And I have learned a couple of things. One, we're losing a lot of really critical, important people. There's a brain drain in our federal work force. And a lot of people that are being cut are actually people who are very critical to a lot of these government services that people really rely on. So it's going to hurt every American.

And the second thing I keep hearing is that people are having to take loyalty tests, essentially. And, really, this is just -- this is not about cutting waste, fraud, and abuse at this point. This is about who's loyal to the president, revenge on political enemies, and control over the federal government.

And so this is bad for all Americans, not just federal workers in my district.

BASH: Erin?

ERIN MAGUIRE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think that what you're seeing with Elon Musk at DOGE right now is that the largest, fastest growing employer under the Biden administration was the government, and that is going to be reined back in under President Trump.

He made very clear that the government was not going to continue to keep growing. And that means that waste, fraud and abuse are going to be cut out. And for Trump to have Elon up there, Elon can be the foil in this. Democrats are mindlessly chasing Elon Musk around D.C. over to USAID, over to whatever department they want to stand in front of, and try to make noise, instead of focusing on what's most important to the American people.

Democrats don't have a strategy right now. So they're chasing Elon. And for the vice president right there, he was always very much about there needed to be limits to what we were doing with Ukraine, so, again, him being the foil there, setting the stage for Trump to be able to say, yes, actually that's right, you should be more appreciative about what we have been able to do to help you maintain your sovereignty and fight off the Russians.

So both of these can be great foils for Trump to stand there and cut the deal and make the government smaller.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, but there is no deal when it comes to Ukraine.

And, actually the only...

MAGUIRE: Democrats did a good job with that.

HINOJOSA: Well, the only person who benefited from the outburst on Friday was Vladimir Putin. It did not benefit Ukraine. It did not benefit America.

And I know that the White House likes to take a victory lap on that, but it only benefited Vladimir Putin. There is a CNN poll that just came out this morning that talks about how 52 percent of Americans disapprove of the job that Trump is doing right now.

You look closer at the poll, yes, you have Republicans approving by overwhelming amount. You have Democrats disapproving. But the real number is the 59 percent of independents who don't approve of what he is doing right now.

And so things like cutting the government, ensuring that federal government workers like veterans are unemployed, all of those things are taking a toll on Donald Trump. And as we head into the State of the Union, that's not good news for Donald Trump.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Donald Trump is doing an amazing job so far on the things that he ran on, immigration.

The border is -- just his taking office, the border is effectively shut down. The attitude changed from the federal government effectively closed the border. Look at the people coming across now. Look at the encounters today versus what was going on with Biden. I think, on March 4, you're going to hear them talk a lot about the success on immigration.

As it relates to Ukraine, look, Zelenskyy made a huge mistake on Friday. All he had to do is show up and sign this deal and he just couldn't do it. And, sometimes, these guys, when they put on the military uniform, they have trouble taking it off. He needs to take off the military garb, put on the garb of diplomacy

and understand that he's got an honest new broker on the field who can actually help him in this war, maintain his sovereignty, maintain prosperity for the Ukrainians.

And regarding -- and regarding Elon and the bureaucracy, if I just may respond to something you said about the bureaucracy, there seems to be, when Republicans are president, that this idea that the bureaucracy and the government should not be responsive to the political leadership of the executive branch. That is totally false.

It has nothing to do with a loyalty test, but it does have to do with whether or not the unelected bureaucracy is responsive to the political oversight of the government. Democrats right now do not seem to believe that the president should be able to be the president.

SUBRAMANYAM: You should come to my town halls. You should come and talk to some of these federal workers. Many of them are veterans, in fact.

[09:50:03]

But many of them are very competent. What we're doing is, we're prioritizing loyalty over competence.

JENNINGS: I don't doubt it.

SUBRAMANYAM: That's bad for our country right now.

JENNINGS: But I prioritize the political leadership. Elections have consequences, and they need to understand that.

SUBRAMANYAM: But critical programs are being cut off. Contractors are having their contracts canceled for things that really will hurt the American people if we end up doing this. It's already starting, right?

MAGUIRE: But, right now, these are just fearmongering talking points at this point from Democrats.

SUBRAMANYAM: No, that's really happening.

MAGUIRE: No, I understand that people are losing their jobs, and I am sympathetic to that.

But all Democrats, you have yet to actually point to something concrete that has been cut, an employee that has been cut, a service that has been cut that has caused...

(CROSSTALK)

SUBRAMANYAM: We have people who are in charge of tax fraud losing their jobs. We've been talking about waste, fraud, and abuse, right?

(CROSSTALK)

MAGUIRE: Because, what, Democrats wanted to add 84,000 more IRS agents? That is bloated bureaucracy that's failing the people.

That is not a critical -- tax fraud is not a critical need for the country.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Let the congressman respond.

(CROSSTALK)

SUBRAMANYAM: Yes, but that money is going to come back. That's how we get more federal revenue, right?

The IRS is in charge of trying to make sure that we have less tax fraud, less tax waste, right? And to allow the cuts to the IRS means we're going to lose money. I mean, this is not allowing taxpayers to get their money back. We're losing money as a country.

HINOJOSA: And going back to loyalty, I think it's a very fair point, because you claim that Trump is not asking for loyalty within the federal government.

He absolutely is. I was at the Department of Justice. They're telling essentially attorneys, career prosecutors, if you are not loyal to Trump, then you should get out of here. He fired the January 6 prosecutors. He's trying to fire FBI agents, 5,000 FBI agents who worked on January 6 cases.

If you fire 5,000 FBI agents, we will have a terrorist attack, unfortunately.

JENNINGS: We have elections for a reason in this country. We vest all executive authority in a president of the United States, not in an unelected bureaucracy, not in independent agencies, but in a president.

The president's agenda matters. When a Republican is president, the bureaucracy resists. It has to stop.

HINOJOSA: That sounds more like a king. It does not sound like a president of the United States.

JENNINGS: Sounds like our Constitution to me.

HINOJOSA: It sounds -- well, they're not upholding the Constitution.

SUBRAMANYAM: Yes, it's not our Constitution to impede on the spending power of Congress, for instance, and take away agencies that we authorized. So this is not constitutional at all.

MAGUIRE: Oh, but then Democrats want to sit here and complain about that, but had no issue whatsoever when Joe Biden defied the Supreme Court and continued to unilaterally pardon student loan debt. That money...

(CROSSTALK) MAGUIRE: ... monopoly then.

BASH: Ten seconds, Congressman.

SUBRAMANYAM: You know, right now, I have talked to the federal workers. This is going to do lasting damage to our country if we let these cuts go through.

And so I'm going to continue to fight...

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: There's two parties, Dana. One wants bigger government. One wants smaller government. I think I will take it to the midterms.

BASH: All right, everybody, thank you so much for being here.

And up next: We all want a laugh. We probably all need a laugh. This week's best political cartoons after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:41]

BASH: Now some political cartoons we saw this week.

Here's one from Matt Davies showing foreign aid and the price of eggs in the United States. R.J. Matson shows the executive branch sawing off the other two branches. And check this one out. Going back, way back into the archives, we found this cartoon from Dr. Seuss in 1941 on what America first means and what it meant back then.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.