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State of the Union

Interview With Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ); Interview With Former U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan; Interview With Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 12, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Phase one. After two years of war and suffering the world waits for a historic handover. What's the state of the hostages and war-torn Gaza? Could President Trump change history?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is beyond Gaza. This is peace in the Middle East.

BASH: Former National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan is ahead.

And out for revenge. The president's retribution campaign nets a second political foe, as attorneys work through the weekend on another.

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: His only goal is political retribution at any cost.

BASH: Will that backfire in court? House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan is next.

And deep cuts, thousands of federal workers fired, as Trump turns the screws on the shutdown. Who will pay?

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): They control all three parts of the government. Why don't they work with us?

BASH: Senator Mark Kelly is here live, and our panel breaks it all down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is hopeful.

We expect to see a Red Cross caravan in Gaza start to move within hours, as Hamas begins to surrender the 48 remaining hostages back to Israel after two years of brutal captivity. And, in Gaza City, Palestinians were returning home alongside hundreds of aid trucks, as the cease-fire deal arranged by President Trump moves forward.

This afternoon, the president will head to the Middle East to celebrate the deal. And what he is promising will be lasting peace, even as major sticking points remain.

At home, the president is taking a different tack, making what he called the Democratic-oriented firings in the federal government, cracking down on blue cities and urging the Justice Department to pursue his political enemies.

Overnight, a source told CNN that federal prosecutors met Saturday to finalize the details of a potential indictment against Trump's former National Security Adviser and now political foe John Bolton after charges against New York's attorney general this week and the arraignment of former FBI Director James Comey.

Here with me now to talk about all of this and more is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Jim Jordan.

Thank you so much for being here, sir.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Good to be with you, Dana.

BASH: So, three weeks ago, President Trump named three people in that TRUTH Social post to Attorney General Pam Bondi that he wanted prosecuted. Two of them have now been indicted.

You're not only the Judiciary chair. You also lead a subcommittee on weaponization of federal government. So will you be looking into this?

JORDAN: Well, look, I think that this -- this Justice Department is applying the facts to the law.

I mean, if John Bolton -- a federal judge thought there was probable cause when they searched John Bolton's house -- you had mentioned him -- that he mishandled classified information and applied the facts and the law, we will see if they prosecute there.

We know, with Letitia James, for example, that you can't stay at your secondary residence and then in fact make it an investment property. It looks like she did that. They're applying the facts to the law and there's that investigation.

And, of course, we know with Jim Comey that he specifically hired this individual, Daniel Richman, to leak information. He laundered information through Richman, leaked that information out there. The Comey memos, for goodness sake, went through Mr. Richman. And then Comey, when he testifies, says something different. So that's why he's being prosecuted.

So this is our Justice Department under the leadership of the attorney general applying the facts to the law, like you are supposed to, not the weaponization of government like we saw under Biden, like we saw under Merrick Garland, like we saw with Chris Wray. So this is, I think, a completely different situation.

BASH: OK, so let's just unpack some of that, if I may, Mr. Chairman.

You were talking about the facts and some of the issues that went before the grand jury and allowed for the indictments in the case of James and Comey. But the question is beyond what's happening in the courtrooms or in the Justice Department. It's what's happening between the president of the United States and the Justice Department and these U.S. attorneys.

And just kind of look at a big picture, the president pushed out the U.S. attorney overseeing the Comey and James cases. The president himself appointed this U.S. attorney, and that person was a Trump supporter.

[09:05:08]

JORDAN: Which he has the right to do.

BASH: Right, he has the right to do. But the president did so because he thought that this man was not pursuing these cases against his political enemies.

So my question is, given the fact that the president has been so public about his desire for the prosecution of these people who he says are his political enemies, how is that just following the law inside the Justice Department? Isn't this the political weaponization that you talk about?

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: The -- no, you got to go to the facts of the case. The president has the prerogative to say what he wants, and he will do that. No one's ever doubted that the president will say what's on his mind and, frankly, do what he told the American voters he was going to do.

So that's one thing. But this is about applying the facts to the law. And that's exactly what's taking place in this Justice Department. You cannot argue with the fact Jim Comey said one thing to -- under oath in front of the United States Congress. That's what he's being charged for, false statements to the Congress, 18-USC-1001.

You cannot argue that he did that, particularly when you know the facts from the inspector general with this individual Daniel Richman, who Comey specifically hired to launder information to folks like you in the press.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Do you believe that the Justice Department is acting independently from the president?

JORDAN: I think the Justice Department is applying the facts to the case, applying the facts to the law and... BASH: But are they doing it under pressure from the president? Are they trying to find ways to indict people who the president said publicly in that post he wants to be prosecuted?

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: I think that -- Dana, I think they're doing their job. I think they are doing their job.

I mean, I know the kind of information they're giving to Congress, information we did not get under the previous FBI director or from the previous attorney general, information we had -- we had looked at this issue where the FBI and the Richman field office did this memorandum on Catholics saying, if you're a pro-life Catholic, you're somehow an extremist.

We got like a handful of documents from Chris Wray, even though we asked for everything. We have got hundreds of documents now. So, I think...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: But should be doing their job under pressure from the president?

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: They are doing their job.

BASH: So, you're saying you're comfortable with that?

JORDAN: They are doing their job.

BASH: But you're comfortable with them doing this?

JORDAN: I'm comfortable with applying the facts to the law.

I'm fine looking at each individual case, enforcing the law and applying the facts to that. And that's what I think is going on in all the -- in the three examples that you raised.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Forgive me. I will ask one more application to that.

JORDAN: Sure.

BASH: Applying the facts, applying the law, fine. How about applying pressure from the White House? You're comfortable with that, given the fact that you were very upset about what you called weaponization, so much that you have a whole new subcommittee on it?

JORDAN: The president is speaking his mind. And I think that's entirely appropriate.

What I know this Justice Department is doing is the good work that they're supposed to do, looking at the law, looking at the facts, looking at each individual case, and moving forward, I think, in an appropriate fashion.

BASH: Well, let's talk about these cases.

JORDAN: And you can't argue with -- I mean, Jim Comey -- by the way, Jim Comey is where it all -- so you talk about weaponization, that's where it all started nine years ago.

Jim Comey is the guy who took the dossier paid for by the other party's campaign, Clinton campaign...

BASH: But that's not what he's being prosecuted for.

JORDAN: ... used that -- I understand that, but I'm just saying this is -- you want to talk about weaponization, it's -- Jim Comey's where it started. That is totally where it started.

BASH: Are you worried...

JORDAN: He took the dossier, went to the secret court to get a warrant to spy on the other party's campaign.

BASH: So this is retribution then.

JORDAN: And we know -- then they changed the intelligence community assessment after the first person -- no, no, no.

BASH: So you're saying this is retribution against him.

JORDAN: This is about looking at the facts, looking at the law, looking -- no, I'm just saying, Jim Comey, this is -- you mentioned weaponization. I'm saying that's where it all started.

BASH: Well, let's...

JORDAN: What I'm saying is happening here is, they're looking at the facts and they're applying the law to each individual case.

BASH: Sir, let me ask about those cases. Are you worried, as an attorney and somebody who understands how these cases work, that what the president's comments are doing is actually undermining the cases when they actually come before a judge and jury?

JORDAN: I mean, we will see how that all shakes -- I'm not worried about that. Again, they're going to prosecute the case. Mr. Comey's presumed innocent.

That's the great -- one of the great things about our system. And they will present the evidence in the court, and we will see what happens as they move forward. But I am comfortable with them moving forward. I am comfortable with the indictment, because I think, when you look at the facts and this...

BASH: And you're comfortable with the president's role as well?

JORDAN: This is warranted.

BASH: Just to button that, you're comfortable with the president's role?

JORDAN: Yes, I'm very comfortable -- I'm very comfortable with this president.

You talk about we're celebrating today what's happening in the Middle East, what he's done for these families. They're getting hostages.

BASH: No, no, no, I'm -- of course. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about in this issue.

JORDAN: I'm so comfortable with the president -- I'm comfortable with the president and how he's handled his entire responsibilities...

BASH: OK.

JORDAN: ... with this issue, with foreign policy, with the border, with tax policy. You name it.

BASH: I want to ask you about a flood of videos that we're all seeing on social media showing immigration officers across the U.S. using pretty aggressive tactics.

[09:10:05]

There was one from Friday showing agents pinning a Chicago TV station employee to the ground. She was later released without charges. Another shows ICE agents shooting an unarmed pastor in the head with pepper balls. There were countless more showing agents tackling people, pulling them from cars, shoving journalists, detaining U.S. citizens, questioning their citizenship.

Do you have any concerns as you see all this about how ICE and other immigration agencies are conducting themselves?

JORDAN: Look, I don't know the specifics of those examples you gave.

What I do know is, these ICE agents are under tremendous pressure. Many times -- you talk about some people have raised a concern about them wearing masks and different things, many times, the Antifa people who are protesting against them in these in Chicago, in these ICE-free zones, according to the mayor of Chicago.

I think they're functioning and working under extreme pressure. I think they're doing a good job, by and large. I don't know the specifics of the examples you just cited.

BASH: Are you going to look into it?

JORDAN: But this -- this -- well, I -- we're going to look into all -- the whole situation where you have these mayors who are pressuring back against them in sanctuary cities...

BASH: No, are you going to look into the way that ICE is conducting itself?

JORDAN: ... ICE-free zones, where they're being harassed by Antifa protesters who are wearing masks and doing all kinds of things, where they're, I think, threatening the national federal facilities.

BASH: So you will only look into that side and not to make sure that federal law enforcement, federal ICE officials...

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: I'm not familiar with the three -- I think you gave three examples, Dana.

BASH: Well, those were just some.

JORDAN: Well, I'm not familiar with those three, but we will...

BASH: There are lots of them.

JORDAN: OK. Well, we will -- well, we will -- will -- we're -- we're -- we're the Judiciary Committee. We have oversight over immigration policy. We will look into all this.

But I think the ICE agents are doing the lord's work. They're doing what the president promised the American people he was going to do when he ran for the job and was elected in a big way. So I think they're doing their duty.

What's interesting is the pushback they're getting in these sanctuary jurisdictions and these ICE-free zones, where many times they're coming to -- they have sent a detainer to the facility and they will release the person to the streets, the bad guy to the streets and won't work with ICE at all.

BASH: Mr. Chairman...

JORDAN: That's a big problem, something we are definitely concerned about.

BASH: Mr. Chairman, we're almost out of time.

I do want to ask you about the Trump administration started to lay off about 4,000 federal workers on Friday night. Your fellow Republican Lisa Murkowski said that this is something that will -- quote -- "hurt hardworking Americans who have dedicated their lives to public service and jeopardize agency missions once we finally reopen the government."

JORDAN: Yes.

BASH: Why is the president firing people who have no say in this shutdown?

JORDAN: Dana, the easiest way to remedy this is for Chuck Schumer to open up the government. We should just be clear that the real debate here is the one Chuck Schumer is having with himself.

BASH: Yes, but this is a decision by the administration.

JORDAN: Six months ago, he voted for it. And now he won't. This would be so simple. You wouldn't even have to deal with this question if Chuck Schumer would just do what he did six months ago.

But, instead, he's hanging around waiting for Saturday. I'd be interested if Chuck Schumer is actually going to show up at this No Kings, anti-Trump, crazy left-wing rally that's going to happen in D.C.

BASH: So...

JORDAN: I think they're waiting for that, because he's driven by the hard left that now controls the party.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: You're comfortable with using the firing of federal workers as a tactic to try to induce the Democrats?

JORDAN: Well, the administration -- we have got a $37 trillion debt and we have got Chuck Schumer who won't open the government. What are they supposed to do?

So, that's the tough situation right now. Thank goodness the president's stepping up and saying, we're going to help our troops. Chuck Schumer says every day gets better for them, thinking totally politically. Well, it's not getting better for the men and women who wear the uniform. And President Trump understands that.

It would be nice if Chuck Schumer and the Democrats understood that and vote for what they voted for just six months ago, for goodness' sake.

BASH: The House Judiciary chair, Jim Jordan, thank you so much for being here this morning. I appreciate it.

JORDAN: You bet, Dana. Thank you.

BASH: And the Trump administration is firing federal workers, dialing up the pressure, as you just heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Democrats in Congress refuse to fund the federal government. And because of this, many of our operations are impacted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Senator Mark Kelly will be here to respond next.

And then: Why was President Trump able to do what President Biden couldn't? Well, President Biden's National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan will be here coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:19:03]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Almost two years after they were taken, we are watching for any sign that Hamas has begun to release hostages. Meanwhile, here at home, the U.S. government is still at a standstill, though yesterday President Trump said he had identified funds to pay U.S. troops their salary this week.

Here with me now is Democratic Senator from Arizona Mark Kelly.

Thank you so much for being here. It's nice to see you in person.

I want to start with the Middle East. The remaining hostages, we could see them coming back hopefully within the next 24 hours to Israel. Aid trucks are already headed into Gaza. How much credit does President Trump deserve for this deal?

KELLY: I think he should get a lot of credit. I mean, this was his deal. He worked this out. He sent Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner over to negotiate this, and it's -- so far, it's gone well.

Hopefully, the hostages get released here. It might not be within 24 hours, but certainly I think by Monday. And that's progress. And now we're going to have to see what happens next.

[09:20:08]

My hope is the Saudis, the Emiratis, they step up and they do what they said they would do, which is invest in rebuilding Gaza, which 90 percent of the homes have been destroyed. It is such a tragic situation. It's good to see these 600 aid trucks.

That should have been happening over the last two years, you know, feed people who just are starving and struggling.

BASH: You mentioned looking forward. And I should mention that you visited the region several times during this conflict.

There are multiple sticking points in the 20 point-plan, particularly when we get to, like, point six and the whole question of whether or not Hamas will lay down its arms. How realistic is that?

KELLY: Well, I think it's possible.

I am concerned that they may change their minds here. They're in a challenging spot. The Iranians, their benefactor, is not what it was even just months ago. So, I think they see the writing on the wall here that things have turned not in their direction, which is a good thing.

I think that allows us to get this deal. So this is the right time with the right deal. But you're right. There's 20 or 21 points in this plan, and a lot of things have to happen to get to a lasting peace. BASH: Let's turn to the shutdown of the federal government. Friday

night, the White House fired around 4,000 federal workers, including more than 1,000 workers at the Treasury Department, dozens at the CDC, including, apparently, the agency's entire Washington office.

President Trump said that the workers targeted would be -- quote -- "Democrat-oriented" and that this was the Democrats' fault for causing the shutdown in the first place.

KELLY: Well, first of all, to comment on what the president said, there aren't Democrat workers or agencies and Republican agencies. That's ridiculous. I mean, it really is.

He again is trying to politicize the federal government in a way, and he's picking winners and losers. These are people with families, and they have mortgages and they have to pay rent. They have to put food on the table. We have never seen a president do anything like this before.

The vice president just said, we have to lay off federal workers, lay them off, I mean, not just furloughed because of this government shutdown. That's not true. They do not have to do this. They do not have to punish people that shouldn't find themselves in this position.

And the reason they're here, though, is because this administration is about to drive our health care system for 23 million people over a cliff. When these subsidies go away, and they will -- if we do not do something by December 31, this is -- people's health care prices are going to triple.

BASH: Right.

Well, let me ask you about that, because you're talking about December 31. And today is October 12.

KELLY: Yes.

BASH: And so why not follow the model that we have seen Democrats follow pretty much throughout modern history, which is keep the government open and deal with these things as part of a negotiation?

I mean, you and your fellow Democrats have been voting no on bills to keep the government open.

KELLY: Dana, here's why.

So, for months, we have been trying to negotiate with the White House and Republicans in the House and the Senate on health care. This is about the cost of people's health care. What did Speaker Johnson do? He has sent his members -- his Republican members, they're gone. They have been gone for four weeks now. They have only worked 14 days since July 25, I think.

BASH: Well, because they passed a bill to keep the government open. You all haven't.

KELLY: They should be here negotiating.

I can have conversations -- well, I can't this weekend because John Thune gave everybody a four-day weekend. While the government is shut down, he gives people a long weekend. I'm here in Washington and will talk to anybody about this.

We need negotiation. The president has previously said, I think it was before he ran for president the first time, that government shutdowns are on the president and all you need to do is get everybody in the room and have a serious conversation.

And they're refusing to do that. They are holding people's health care hostage. When these subsidies, if they in fact go away, people are then -- they're one injury or illness away from bankruptcy.

BASH: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said this week -- quote -- "Every day gets better for Democrats' the longer the shutdown goes on. You just heard Jim Jordan refer to this comment as proof that in his mind and a lot of Republicans' minds that this is Democrats playing politics on the shutdown.

KELLY: Well, for me, this is not political. This is about real people.

[09:25:02]

I was on the phone with a woman from Phoenix last week.

BASH: But how is every day getting better, as Chuck Schumer said?

KELLY: I don't think this is better for anybody.

I mean, this isn't better for government workers. This isn't better for us. This isn't better for the Republicans. It's not about that. It's protecting people from crazy increases in the cost of their health care. There are people in Alaska that have gotten letters that say their premiums are going from $600 a month to $4,000 a month.

I was just mentioning this woman in Phoenix. Her name is Cricket. She pays $350 a month. She had a had an injury, a head injury, recently. Her bill was $10,000, but, because she had the ACA, she only had to pay $1,000. If she didn't have that, she told me she would have lost her home.

It's about people like her. And there -- in Arizona, 109,000 people could lose their health care because of this. And, across the country, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that that number will quickly be up to two million people and by 2035 over three million people.

BASH: Do you feel any pressure to vote yes and just get this government open and deal with all of that after the government is open?

I understand you said, beforehand, Republicans wouldn't negotiate.

KELLY: Dana...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: But now they claim they will.

KELLY: Dana, this is -- well, I want to see them in the room. If they say they will negotiate, get in the room with us.

BASH: OK.

KELLY: This is -- these are not easy decisions, but we can work this out together. The administration seems to want the same thing. They want the government open. The president said he wants to solve this health care issue. If we all agree upon that, let's just do it at the same time.

BASH: Senator, thank you so much for being here.

KELLY: Thank you.

BASH: Appreciate it.

And President Trump wants peace in the Middle East. Is that in sight now for the first time in generations?

Former Biden National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:10]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

President Trump is about to head to the Middle East to celebrate the first phase of his cease-fire deal. Will he be able to achieve something that eluded so many of his predecessors?

Well, here with me now is former National Security Adviser to President Biden Jake Sullivan.

Thank you so much for being here.

You were national security adviser on October 7, 2023, when Hamas brutally attacked Israel. You were in Israel 11 days later. You repeatedly met with hostage families over the last two years. Just first, how are you feeling as you watch this moment?

JAKE SULLIVAN, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, first of all, I'm still holding my breath, because I want to see those hostage families reunited with the hostages who have just been going through hell for almost two years.

And, of course, the Palestinian people have also been going through hell for the past two years. So it's a good thing that a cease-fire is in place, that the hostages will be coming out, that a surge of aid will be going in. And before we get to the geopolitics and the diplomacy and what comes

next, I think, just on a very human level, we should all take a moment to say thanks for -- to have gratitude for this moment and hope that everything that unfolds from here is positive.

But I'm feeling very good this morning, although I won't feel totally comfortable until we actually see this thing fully implemented.

BASH: Yes, which is understandable.

President Biden wasn't able to get a deal like this done. President Trump was. Why do you -- as someone who was in the room for all of it during President Biden's administration, why do you think that is?

SULLIVAN: Well, a year ago, things looked a heck of a lot different on the ground than they look today, Dana.

A year ago, Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, the author of the worst massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, he was still alive and operating in Gaza. A year ago, Hezbollah was still attacking Israel. A year ago, Iran was launching ballistic missiles at Israel.

We got a cease-fire that ended the Hezbollah attacks. We defeated the Iranian missile attacks and Israel took out Sinwar towards the end of last year. And within weeks of that, all of those things happening, there was a cease-fire in place.

When President Biden left office, there was not just a cease-fire in place and hostages coming out, but there was actually a road map to get to exactly the point we are today.

Now, what happened a couple of months into the Trump administration is that Israel walked away from that deal, and then the fighting went on for months and months. So, I'm glad we are where we are today, but things have changed quite dramatically since Joe Biden was in office at the beginning of this year.

BASH: You mentioned a road map. The Trump administration is touting a 20-point plan to achieve peace in Gaza. How different is this plan than the one that you discussed and that the secretary of state said he left in the drawer when they left?

SULLIVAN: In concept, it's pretty similar. Hamas cannot remain in power. We need to see the rebuilding of Gaza funded by the international community, including the Gulf states.

We need an interim governance structure. We need strong support from the Arab countries. We need some kind of security force to keep the peace in Gaza. And we need a pathway to a two-state solution. All of those elements have been with us for quite some time now.

I think one of the things that's changed, obviously, is all the circumstances I have just described, and the other is that the Arab states are stepping up, I think, in a considerable way, and it's a good thing to see that happen, and I hope that they follow through. BASH: This plan calls for Hamas disarmament. That's kind of the sixth

step. You have been at the negotiating table, not with Hamas, per se, but with people in and around who are speaking for Hamas.

[09:35:05]

How hard is that going to be when we get to that point where you have to tell Hamas, OK, it's time to lay down your weapons?

SULLIVAN: Well, it's tough on two levels. It's tough on a political level to get a formal agreement from Hamas, yes, we will totally disarm.

And even if you were able to get that, it's really hard on a practical level. There are a lot of guys with guns in Gaza who call themselves Hamas or call themselves something else. And getting every one of those guys to give up their guns, I think, will be obviously quite challenging.

But I think that Israel can ensure its own security with support from the rest of the world, even if you haven't gotten every last gun out of Gaza. So I think we have to be practical about the steps ahead. And there will be difficult days here, Dana. Don't get me wrong. I mean, this could at some point founder on many of the same challenges and steps that it's foundered on over the course of decades past.

The most important thing is to get this first step done, get the hostages out, get the aid in, keep a cease-fire in place, and then have the time and space to try to work through these incredibly challenging issues, which have no easy resolution. And, if they did, it would have been resolved long ago.

BASH: Just going back to Prime Minister Netanyahu, you mentioned that the -- that the battlefield, so to speak, is much different now than it was a year ago. And that is true.

A lot of what you listed was a lot of what the Israelis got criticism for, for being aggressive in going into Gaza, for being aggressive elsewhere, including inside Iran. Do you think that some of the criticism perhaps is less warranted now? Or do you think that just the reality, in all candor, that President Trump is a different interlocutor with Netanyahu than President Biden or even some of their predecessors were, that President Trump just has a different kind of relationship with Netanyahu?

SULLIVAN: Look, what I think is that conflicts unfold through time and circumstance.

As I said before, there was a cease-fire in place in January. That cease-fire was a first phase. It was several weeks, with the determination that both sides would agree to, essentially what's been agreed to today. So we could have had this in March. But that didn't happen.

In April and May and June, July, August, September, it didn't happen. So the question is why? And it's because Israel felt for some reason it had to continue. President Trump felt for some reason it could continue.

And it's only now, after all that time, that we have gotten to a deal. That's after months and months under the Trump administration. So I think this is about context and timing. And I'm glad we are where we are. And the question is, why -- or could this have ended sooner? That's a question, of course, I have to grapple with.

I think it's also a question that the Trump administration has to grapple with, because, of course, they have been in charge for quite some time now.

BASH: Mark Kelly, the senator from Arizona, was just here. He said President Trump deserves credit. I'm not hearing you say that. I mean, I won't ask you or maybe I will ask you if you think he deserves a Nobel Prize, but do you think he deserves credit here?

SULLIVAN: Of course he does.

And I give credit to President Trump. I give credit to Witkoff and Kushner and Rubio. These are hard jobs. The president of the United States is the hardest job in the world. And these other jobs, including the job I occupied, are tremendously difficult.

And to get to something like today takes a village, and it takes determination and really hard work. And so I, without question, offer credit for that. Now the question is, can we make sure this sticks as we go forward?

And I hope and will support every effort to make sure that that happens, including the critical point, Dana, that ultimately there will be no long-term solution to this situation if there is not a credible pathway to a Palestinian state. And I hope the administration will stick by that.

BASH: Jake Sullivan, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

SULLIVAN: Thank you.

BASH: And President Trump is set to head overseas to a warm welcome in the Middle East. He's taking a really different approach here at home. Why is that?

My panel breaks it down next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:51]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: President of the United States Donald J. Trump that made this peace possible.

(CHEERING)

WITKOFF: To Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu... (BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

That was cheers for President Trump, jeers for Prime Minister Netanyahu.

My panel is back with me now.

Scott, I'm going to start with you. You have been wearing that pin for two years and four days.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

It's a great moment. It's the most historic moment for the Trump presidency. I was in Israel this summer and met with some of the hostage families and the mother of one Alon Ohel. And when you meet with these people, you realize just how broken their lives have been and how they have been running around the world trying to maintain visibility for the hostages.

And they're going to finally get their family back. I worry about the hostages. I worry about what condition they're going to be in. I think, in the case of Alon, I think there's a belief that maybe he's blind in one eye and he's been injured. But I don't know what's going to happen after this.

[09:45:04]

Internal politics in Israel, maintaining the peace and finding a way to deradicalize a lot of radical people in the Gaza, but it's going to be a great, great moment for the world when these hostages finally come out. And, honestly, if not but for Donald Trump, I don't think it would be happening.

And I'm very proud of our president, because it shows what an engaged and pragmatic leader of the United States can do on the world stage.

NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: The human toll of this has been devastating and has rallied people around the world in a way we haven't seen before.

JENNINGS: Yes.

HAQ: Israeli hostages, Palestinian victims, 60,000-plus, 20,000 children.

And the idea that the United States' power up until now, up until Trump, had not been really put on the line to put an end to this -- there were negotiations and discussions, but the challenging of Bibi Netanyahu's agenda had to come -- came from within Israel and had been.

They have been consistently saying they want hostages released, end the war in Gaza. You have in the United States a massive sea change about how people feel, when 60 percent of American Jews do not think Israel has been handling this war the right way.

And so for the United States to really just step in and say to Netanyahu directly, this is on you, you need to make some different choices, is very different than I think how we have seen the previous administration behave. And that is what creates change, American power being used to save lives.

BASH: Well, yes, President Trump definitely had -- has a lot more sway over Bibi Netanyahu than perhaps Joe Biden did.

But you also have to have lots of other factors, including the Arab world being ready to step in and step up. And that also is happening.

REBECCAH HEINRICHS, THE HUDSON INSTITUTE: Well, sure.

And President Trump has sway over Bibi Netanyahu because he backs Bibi Netanyahu. The two of the men are so close and trust each other so much. And so it's too bad to hear boos for those from those Israelis who want the hostages to come home, because I really think Bibi Netanyahu was key in this. And you couldn't -- you needed to have him at this time and place to have this close relationship with President Trump.

President Trump also was very supportive of Israel doing what was necessary to get to this point, going after Iran in a significant military campaign after their key facilities, eliminating Hezbollah, going after Hamas.

President Trump did not restrain Israel. So you had to get to this point where you allow the Israelis to do what was necessary. And then you come in and work with the Gulf partners to make deals with them and then put pressure on Hamas, so that we can get to...

(CROSSTALK)

HAQ: The challenge is that Israel did overstep with -- in this belief that they had free rein.

Going into sovereign territory of Qatar twice, not once, but twice, without warning the United States, which ultimately undermined negotiations of last year, I mean, resulted in the show of Trump putting Netanyahu on the phone and apologizing.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Well, but by all -- by a lot of accounts, it was that attack inside Qatar and the fact that it didn't go the way Israel thought it was going to go that gave President Trump and his administration an opening in order to make that happen.

(CROSSTALK)

HAQ: ... Netanyahu in this.

BASH: But I do want to kind of bring it back to the United States, as we talk about what's happening overseas and kind of the split screen.

And Maureen Dowd highlighted a -- just that, the split screen. She said: "You can't get" - and this is about the Nobel Prize -- A"You can't get a medal for promoting democracy when you tried to overthrow the democracy you were running. Trump seems oblivious to the paradox of enforcing peace abroad and disrupting it badly at home, of soothing violence overseas and inflaming it here."

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is the challenge of the Trump presidency for so many people.

And, for the record, Joe Biden also was a big supporter of Bibi Netanyahu. It got him in a lot of trouble with Democratic constituencies. He declared himself a Zionist when he went to Israel. He talked about he and Bibi being close friends. So it got him in a fair amount of hot water among the Democratic constituency.

I will say, at the same time, the problem that we see is, on one side is Donald Trump solving or doing a great job in bringing people together around the world around some of these peace issues, while at the same time dividing people at home.

And I think for those of us who don't -- I don't root for Donald Trump's failure. I root for Donald Trump's fairness. He's the most powerful political president of my lifetime. Imagine what would happen if he decided to use that power to bring Americans together to solve some of our major problems, like health care, which the Democrats are standing up for in this fight over the budget and over the government being open.

Imagine if he did that. Imagine if he brought our allies together around the world, instead of fighting people with tariffs against Canada and the E.U. He's disrupting people on one hand and then solving problems on the other, which makes it very hard for a bunch of people to rally around him.

JENNINGS: It's not disrupting. He's the president of the United States. He was elected last November to execute on a policy agenda on which he ran.

And so he's doing that. And we will have another election next November, and then we will have another one after that. And that people who get elected...

[09:50:04]

HAQ: Will Trump be running in this next election?

JENNINGS: And the people who get elected will execute their policy agenda.

When I see Maureen's words, essentially, what she's arguing is, is that because I don't like some of the things Donald Trump has done or been involved with over time, the rest of what he's able to accomplish is illegitimate.

And I think this is one of the problems on the left is that they have never really...

BASH: Well, I think she just was talking about a Nobel Peace Prize.

JENNINGS: Well, so the president of the United States goes in and solves the most complicated crisis in the world...

SIMMONS: Didn't solve.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: ... ends a war...

(LAUGHTER)

HAQ: Not solved.

JENNINGS: ... brings home hostages. As you yourself said, this has captivated the world.

And if not but for his engagement and his interpersonal abilities here, I mean, who else would you give it to? And, to me, it's only because she's decided that everything about Trump is illegitimate and therefore it's -- this is for the American people.

It wouldn't be just for him. It would be the American people.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: The American people, though, also don't want to see pastors being -- they don't want to see pastors being pepper-sprayed in their faces while they're standing outside praying.

That is a very bad image for someone who declares himself a peacemaker.

HEINRICHS: OK, but we're talking right now, again, on getting these hostages out of Gaza, which is something that I look back, and I just think you have a genocidal group, which is Hamas, who is exploiting the situation and maximizing suffering in Gaza.

How do you even negotiate with them? It took President Trump and his unconventional approach to getting the Arab states really to pressure Hamas. And until that happened, we couldn't get here.

JENNINGS: Yes. Yes.

HEINRICHS: So, his relationship with Qatar, his relationship with the Egyptians and his close relationship with Bibi.

It is incredible. It's monumental. We should stop as a country and take the moment to recognize that President Trump actually achieved what nobody else could do.

SIMMONS: Imagine if he used that power to bring us together at home.

(CROSSTALK) HAQ: We're overselling...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: No, well, you all said, let's hope with the -- peace in the Middle East. From your lips to God's ears, as they say.

The loss of an absolute legend. As we mourn the loss of Diane Keaton, will relive some of her best moments on screen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE KEATON, ACTRESS: Oh, well. La da dee da. La da dee da, la, la.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:53]

BASH: A moment now to mourn the loss of a real one of a kind, the actress Diane Keaton, who died yesterday at age 79.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK NICHOLSON, ACTOR: What's your play about?

DIANE KEATON, ACTRESS: About. Well, I'm not exactly sure which is -- it's a bit of a problem, but so far it's about a divorced woman, a writer. She's this high-strung, overamped, controlling know-it-all neurotic who's incredibly cute and lovable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And, of course, her iconic dance in "The First Wives Club."

When she turned 77, Keaton posted on Instagram: "Happy birthday to the love of my life, me."

Well, we all felt that way about you.

May her memory be a blessing.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us. Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.