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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Netanyahu Threatens To Occupy Part Of Gaza; Trump Doesn't Know If He Should Uphold Constitution; Staff Shortage Causes Delays At Newark Airport; CNN Gets Rare Access Of Disputed Territory of Kashmir; Trump Threatens Film Tariffs; Jury Selection In Sean Diddy Combs Trial; Reopening of Alcatraz Prison? Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 05, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you are watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu threatens to occupy part of Gaza saying it is, quote, "time to make the final moves."
CNN gets rare access to the hilltops of disputed territory of Kashmir as tensions mount between India and Pakistan. And rap mogul Sean Diddy Combs
tells the judge he's a little nervous as jury selection begins in his sex trafficking trial.
First, though, Israel security cabinet has decided to expand military operations in Gaza. As one minister says, the plan is to, quote, "conquer"
the territory. Its military is planning to mobilize tens of thousands of reservists now. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says this new offensive
will be intensive and Israel plans to relocate the population to the south.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): One thing will be clear, there will be no in and out. We'll call it reserves to come
whole territory. We are not going to enter and then exit the area only to carry out raid afterwards. That's not the plan. The intention is the
opposite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It sounds like an occupation. Israeli officials tell CNN the cabinet also voted to establish a new framework for aid delivery emitted
ongoing Israeli blockade. They say the expansion of the fighting will be gradual to give a chance for a renewed ceasefire and hostage release deal
to take place before U.S. President Donald Trump visits the region this month.
Last week, Prime Minister Netanyahu's wife was overheard on a microphone saying, fewer than 24 hostages remain alive in Gaza.
Mosha Lavi brother-in-law of Israeli hostage Omri Miran. Thanks so much for joining, Mosha.
MOSHA LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE OMRI MIRAN: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: First, let me ask you just how you and your family are doing to see the war in Gaza expand once again and a deal, it seems, pushed off once
again.
LAVI: Yes, it's a difficult moment for many families of hostages, including ours. Only a few weeks ago, we received a proof of life from Omri. Hamas
released a psychological warfare video featuring him. We didn't focus on the words he was forced to say, but on the fact that he is alive. We didn't
focus on the fact that he looks unwell, but on the fact that he is alive.
And now, I feel like the rest of my family members, that the operation, the expansion of the operation, may risk his life and may bring us farther away
from bringing him home to my sister, Lishay, and two baby nieces, one in Alma.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Growing up without their father now. Given the public support in Israel for bringing all the hostages home, it's been there since the
beginning. Why do you believe this government and this prime minister are expanding the war rather than focusing their efforts on another hostage
ceasefire deal?
LAVI: I'm not sure and I'm not sure they have the mandate to ignore. All the polls, the public polls that have been published, almost all of them,
since May 24, that are indicating the public prioritize the return of the hostages above any other objectives that they may have in this war against
a vicious, brutal, genocidal enemy, Hamas.
But despite the fact that this -- what this group is, the public wants to seize the hostage's home, which means that we'll have to come to the table
and agree on a deal. I lobby and advocate a lot here in the U.S. with the administration and Congress, and the sense I get from the Trump
administration is that they also want to see a deal that ends the war and bring home the hostages.
So, what I see now is that there is a disparity between the policy of the Trump administration, of his special invoice, Steve Witkoff, and the policy
that Israeli government agreed on over the past few days. We are -- the hostages are no longer the key priority it seems for the government.
[18:05:00]
SCIUTTO: Do you believe that President Trump, Steve Witkoff should be applying more explicit pressure on Netanyahu to make a deal? Because of
course, the perception was that the last president, Joe Biden, was not willing to apply that pressure, but that Donald Trump would?
LAVI: I think we reached the deal in January, thanks to the pressure applied by President Trump on all the stakeholders. On one end, Israel, and
on the other hand the sponsors of Hamas, countries like Qatar, Turkey, Iran. And he applied that pressure brilliantly in several ways.
We need that pressure back. We need the administration explain to its ally and partner, Israel, that the host are the key priority of both the public
and the administration. And we need them to make clear to Hamas sponsors that Hamas cannot stay in power in Gaza, both for the benefit of Garza and
for the benefit of the future of the region.
And so, we need that pressure applied and we need that now. This is a key moment in this war. If it's going to be expanded again, if we're going to
get into this situation that we were back in May 24 where the operation was expanded in Southern Gaza, then I'm afraid that we might lose the ability
to bring them home, the 59 hostages. Those who are alive, the 24, believed to be alive, to reunite with their families and those who were murdered to
be buried.
SCIUTTO: You referenced this possibility that only 24 hostages remain alive. There was that moment, that open mic moment with the prime
minister's wife. Do you believe the Israeli government has been completely honest with you and other hostage families about what they know about the
status of those hostages still held there?
LAVI: I want to believe that they are honest with us. It's part of their duty as elected government in a democratic nation to be transparent with
us, with the wider public. I understand as well that there is the fog of war, which means that there might be indications that some hostages have
lost their lives. But at the moment, that's the number we know. That's the number we operate on.
And it doesn't matter, even if there is one living hostage right now, or 24 or 59, every life matters. And that life needs to be saved and there is an
opportunity to save it if we stick to the plan that was laid out in early January when the compensation in January 20th began its tenure, and even
earlier before that, that we have a deal, we have a phase one, and then we have a phase two that we're going to negotiate. We have not negotiated
that.
And instead, we are hearing radical elements of the Israeli governments stating things like the ones you shared before, expanding the operations in
order to take territory and never leave it. And on the other hand, we are hearing Hamas are refusing to surrender, to understand that they can't be
part of the government in Gaza in the future, and that they have to dismantle the military operations. It's a difficult moment for us and for
Gaza as well who are suffering as a consequence.
SCIUTTO: No question. Mosha Lavi, we do wish the best to you and your family and hope that you get some good news.
LAVI: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump was recently asked whether he must hold the constitutional right to due process. He was questioned on NBC's "Meet the
Press" about his sweeping immigration crackdown, his response, raise some eyebrows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC "MEET THE PRESS" ANCHOR: Don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?
TRUMP: I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the
Supreme Court said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We should note the president swore an oath, as all presidents do to serve, protect, and defend the U.S. Constitution at his inauguration in
January. Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein joins me now. And, Ron, nice to have you.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey Jim.
SCIUTTO: It's not the first time that President Trump has said things that has raised genuine concerns. I wonder if you could place this comment in a
ranking, as it were, of concerning statements. should you and I and the people watching this program take those words seriously as perhaps a
warning that he won't follow the Constitution if he doesn't see the need to?
[18:10:00]
BROWNSTEIN: Well, first of all, it was a characteristic Trump formulation, right, where he leaves the door open to doing something truly outrageous by
refusing to rule it out, and then feigning ignorance along the way, saying, well, I don't know, you know, what the lawyers say.
So, far, the line he has not been willing to cross is explicitly violating a directive from the Supreme Court, as he said again in that answer, he
will follow what the Supreme Court said. Well, you know, for all of his dancing around, the Supreme Court has already ruled on this. You know, in
their early April ruling, they did not definitively answer the question of whether he could use the Alien Enemies Act at all to deport undocumented
immigrants. But the majority did say that if he -- even if he can use it, he must provide them a hearing.
So, the court is already on record as saying that he does, in fact, under the Constitution, have to provide everyone a hearing. Now, whether that's a
court date, you know, or something less is another question. But I think, you know, he is spreading ambiguity where there is none.
And by the way, J. D. Vance and Stephen Miller have been even more explicit in arguing that undocumented immigrants do not deserve or -- and are not
required to receive due process. So, if they mean that they -- if they intend to abide by Supreme Court decisions, as he says, they are heading
for a collision.
SCIUTTO: I wonder if -- I mean, it comes down to question of the letter to the spirit of the law, I suppose to some degree. But as a practical matter
has he already defied the courts, right? I mean, in that you've had court orders that told him, for instance, turn a plane back and they said, ah,
the plane's out of U.S. airspace. You know, he has claimed he doesn't have the power to pressure or demand that as El Salvador return, for instance,
Abrego Garcia, which I imagine a U.S. president does have that power to do so and yet, he still remains in El Salvador. I just wonder, have we already
seen that line crossed?
BROWNSTEIN: I think we've seen a cross with lower courts. I think that he has not -- at least as I read it, and I think many, you know, legal experts
I talked to, he has not explicitly defied the Supreme Court. They did stop the buses that were transporting more people to the prison in El Salvador
when the Supreme Court ruled at 1:00 in the morning, and the Supreme Court's initial directive on Abrego Garcia was, you know, kind of fuzzy and
mushy, facilitate, but not effectuate.
So, you know, it is -- I think, you know, the Supreme Court, pretty clearly, is going to have to be firm and unequivocal and kind of
unambiguous in its directives to him. But I'm not sure -- and he has said often that -- he does not intend to cross the Supreme Court.
So, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. I think they recognize what a momentous step that would be. It may be inevitable given his behavior with
lower courts and given how many cases are moving toward the Supreme Court, but I don't think we're there yet.
SCIUTTO: Final question, has this broken through to the American public as a voting issue? Of course, we're a bit of ways away from a national
election fall next year, but what does the polling show? Are voters saying, wait a second, looks to me like he's not following the letter of the law?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes and no. I mean, clearly, it has broken through that Trump is behaving differently than previous presidents. Washington Post,
ABC, Ipsos poll, I think it was roughly three quarters said he is not following the rule of law. New York Times, Siena, roughly three and five
said he is exceeding his power as president.
What we saw in 2024 though, Jim, was that there were a lot of people who held those kind of doubts about Trump and voted for him anyway so long as
they thought he was going to improve their economic situation. And that's really the vulnerability for him.
I mean, to the extent those voters do not see improvement in their economic situation, and the polls suggest most of them don't, I think these other
doubts about Trump come back to the surface. The other factor worth mentioning real quickly, those kinds of concerns about him, you know, kind
of abrogating the rule of law are deepest among college educated voters, and they are a bigger share of the electorate in the midterm than the
presidential year.
So, in that sense, this could be an immediate voting issue problem for Republicans in '26, even if the economy overshadows it again in 2028.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's a good point about the makeup of the midterm versus presidential term elections. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, air traffic controllers at one of the New York areas biggest airports, one of the busiest in this country, were left traumatized after
equipment failures cut off communications with planes two weeks ago, passenger aircraft.
Now, five controllers are out on paid leave, and customers at Newark Liberty International Airport are dealing with another week of disastrous
delays. CNN's Pete Muntean is here with the latest. Is this a safety issue at that airport?
[18:15:00]
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The big thing here that the FAA is pleading is that this is not a safety issue right now because they're
essentially slowing these flights. Although this appears to have been a safety issue, at least in the short-term that precipitated all of this.
Let's just back up for a second, because the FAA is now essentially confirming our own reporting that there was an incident last Monday, an
equipment outage, where air traffic controllers in the key radar facility that overseas flights approaching and departing from Newark were
essentially blind. They didn't have radio or radar ability for an undisclosed period of time. At least five controllers, a source tells me,
took what's called trauma leave, something they're legally allowed to do, meaning they are now on leave for 45 days.
We know that the FAA was trying to get to the bottom of these equipment issues that precipitated all of these staffing shortages last Monday. But I
want you to listen now to what senator --
SCIUTTO: Just quickly.
MUNTEAN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: If they didn't have radar, does that mean they didn't know where the planes were? They had to look out the window?
MUNTEAN: They didn't know where -- and there are no windows in this facility. This is a radar facility, which called a TRACON, meaning that you
were essentially in a dark room with a radar scope. And so, if you don't have a radar scope and no ability to see where the airplanes are and talk
to them, then you're pretty well hosed. You can't do your job, period.
So, I just want to play you this soundbite now from Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer. He said that the Department of Transportation Office of Inspector
General has to do an immediate investigation, a probe into this, essentially taking the ability away from the FAA to investigate its own
incident. And I want you to listen to this really interesting soundbite here where he details essentially what went wrong that precipitated these
equipment issues in the first place. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK SCHUMER, U.S. SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The technology is old and must be updated. It was one of the things that happened at Newark is a copper
wire burnt. Why are we using copper wire in 2025? Have they heard of fiber?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: So, there have been so many equipment issues FAA wide for years. In fact, there was the downfall of the NOTAM system, which caused the first
nationwide ground stop back in January of 2023, since 0/11.
So, there have been really big equipment problems at the FAA for a long time. These are systemic issues. And Schumer essentially pointed out that
this move of this facility responsible for Newark flights that happened last July from Long Island to Philadelphia, which in hopes of shoring up
staffing shortages, actually made problems worse.
There's one more important point here. The FAA says that there is not really a fix in the near-term. that air traffic controllers, you simply
can't drag and drop them. They have location specific training. And so, this may persist for weeks. So, we're not out of the woods just yet.
SCIUTTO: Goodness. And it sounds like, you know, you need a big technological upgrade or a number of systems that's been subject debate for
a long time. I know. Pete Muntean, thanks so much.
MUNTEAN: Anytime, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, the U.N. Security Council met on Monday to discuss the very real threat of military confrontation between India and Pakistan. U.S.
Secretary -- U.N. Secretary General Antonio Gutierres urged both countries to, quote, "step back" from the brink and practice restraint.
But fears remained that India's planning retaliation for the deadly terror attack in India-administered Kashmir last month, which killed 26 people.
Tensions on both sides are building. Pakistan carried out a second missile test at three days on Monday. India said it ordered several states to
conduct security drills.
CNN's Nic Robertson is in Pakistan administered Kashmir to give us a rare look inside that disputed territory.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): High in the Himalayas, Pakistan's army is taking us deep into disputed Kashmir
toward the line of control, the de facto border with India and one of the most militarized conflicts in the world. Tensions between the two nuclear
armed neighbors rising since a terror attack killed 26 civilians, mostly Indian almost two weeks ago.
Militaries is on both sides readying for possible escalation as India blamed Pakistan and Pakistan denied responsibility. It's a war of words.
Civilians on both sides of these rugged mountains fear, not for the first time, will be victims of events way beyond their sway. Control of the
towering peaks unresolve for 75 years.
ROBERTSON: Just driving through the mountains here, it's easy to understand why Kashmir is still a disputed area, so hard to fight a decisive war in
this rugged terrain.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The other thing you see here is poverty, meager villages clinging to the hillside. People here say the spiking tensions,
making it harder to eke a living, as we're about to find out.
[18:20:00]
On foot now, the village we're heading to a few hundred feet from the line of control.
ROBERTSON: And just look over there, you can see how close the frontlines are. That's the last Pakistani position there. The Indian army positioned a
few hundred meters away and those trees, that's the line of control.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): When we arrive, most villagers clustered around one house, some hiding in the dark inside. Children peeking from unglazed
windows.
This villager telling us they live in fear now. Elderly, children, and women are incredibly scared, he says. We want to take our livestock out to
pasture, but the Indians are right there in front of us and we're very concerned.
Their fears may be well-founded. This 17-year-old says Indian troops killed his father, Malik (ph) Farooq. He had gone to the line of control to chase
our cattle, he says. The Indian shot him and accused him of being a terrorist. He is not. He's a good man.
The day after the massacre in Indian administered Kashmir, the Indian government announced it had foiled a terror plot, killing two Pakistanis.
Malik's (ph) brother denies the allegations too, says, he was just a herder like me. Believes India wants their land before breaking down in tears.
ROBERTSON: It's OK. It's OK. It's OK.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): India's done a great cruelty to us, he says. If they want me to leave, put a bullet in my head. That's the only way I'll
go.
With no end in sight on both sides of the border, civilians, as ever, the losers in this decades old conflict.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Sajiwa (ph), on the line of control in Pakistan administered Kashmir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: With this enduring conflict showing no signs of resolution, there is no shortage of grievances. Accusations levied from both sides of the
border officials in India long accused Pakistan backing armed groups and separatist forces inside the Indian administered portion of Kashmir.
Pakistan says that that was true in the past, but is not happening now. With the killings of those 26 civilians still fresh in the minds of many
across the border calls for revenge from the Indian public, it is no surprise that global powers, including the U.S. and China have stepped into
urge restraint in a tense standoff.
President Trump says Hollywood is dying. How he believes he can save it, and how the movie industry itself is responding to his plan. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." A rough start to the week on Wall Street with the S&P 500 breaking its nine-session winning streak. Investors
still waiting for the U.S. to strike its first trade deals since President Trump paused some of his tariffs. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says he
thinks some will be announced soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I think we're very close to some deals, as President Trump said last night on Air Force One, maybe as early
as this week. I am highly confident that we have 18 important trading partners will put China to the side. The 17 other partners, many of them
have approached us with the very good trade proposals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We should note that's not the first time this administration said there could be a trade deal this week. As trade speculation continues,
investors are eyeing an historic drop in the value of U.S. dollar versus the Taiwanese dollar. Officials in Taiwan deny speculation they're allowing
their currency to strengthen, to rebalance trade with the U.S.
Also, today, shares of Berkshire Hathaway fell more than 5 percent after Warren Buffett announced this weekend that he's stepping down as CEO after
decades. Shareholders were surprised by the decision which ends Buffett's six decade run as the firm's leader. He will, however, stay on as chairman.
The Oracle of Omaha.
President Donald Trump is now threatening a 100 percent tariff on all movies made outside of the U.S. The White House later clarified no final
decision had been made. Yet, here's what President Trump himself had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have the nice sign and everything's good, but they don't do very much. A lot of it's been taken to other countries and big proportion,
and I'm actually going to meet with some because, you know, there's some advantages, I guess. And I'm not looking to hurt the industry. I want to
help the industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This announcement has put the industry into a tailspin. It's raising a number of questions, particularly for films set abroad as well as
movies which we're about to enter production. Brent Lang is the executive editor of The Variety, and he joins me now. Thanks so much, Brent. Good to
have you.
BRENT LANG, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, VARIETY: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, first, President Trump says Hollywood is dying and a lot of the businesses going overseas. Is that true?
LANG: Well, dying, I think is a little bit hyperbolic, but it is definitely threatened and you could even make a case for the fact that it is
endangered. And he is also accurate in his assumption -- and his contention that a lot of jobs are going overseas and they're going overseas because
they're being lured by tax incentives and various subsidies that make it easier and cheaper to shoot over abroad as opposed to domestically.
SCIUTTO: But those -- I mean, you hear about those in this country too. I mean, states give and cities give incentives to get films to be shot there.
Is this just a matter of who's offering the biggest incentive?
LANG: Absolutely. There's a real race to kind of outmatch other production hubs and to offer ever more generous incentives. And then, there's also
lower labor costs and certain areas like Hungary or the Czech Republic that have seen a big boost in production.
SCIUTTO: So, do tariffs -- I know you're not an economist, but does the industry believe that tariffs solve this problem?
LANG: No, the industry definitely does not believe that tariffs solved this problem. They're frankly very confused about what these tariffs exactly --
how they would be applied, at what point in a production would they be applied, how expansive they would be? Would they be to movie -- just apply
to movies? Would they also apply to television shows? Would they apply to streaming films? It's one of these social media missives that sort of
raises more questions than it answers. So, there's enormous uncertainty right now in Hollywood about just what exactly the president meant.
SCIUTTO: I wonder if the concern is -- in Hollywood is similar to the concern we've heard in other industries, whether it be the auto industry or
the iPhone industry, that by imposing the tariff, because you have a kind of global manufacturing process, if you want to call it, even for the film
industry, that it's going to actually raise costs for U.S. film production companies that just make it harder for them to make money.
[18:30:00]
LANG: Well, I think that's their argument, right? That if you did impose these tariffs, you would actually be cutting off a lot of business and
you'd really be disrupting this whole ecosystem that exists to get these movies produced and that -- and in return, you would actually have fewer
films being made, which would mean even fewer jobs than you currently have.
So, I think that their idea would be that you would have a federal incentive, which is something we don't have, as opposed to just a state-by-
state incentive. It doesn't appear that the president is interested in that kind of carrot. It seems like he prefers to use a stick here.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Because that incentive, a federal incentive, I imagine would be a budget line item, right? I mean, that would be spending money, right,
to lure these films.
LANG: Completely.
SCIUTTO: Brent Lang, executive editor at Variety, thanks so much for joining.
LANG: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: And this breaking news just into CNN. The Trump administration says it is cutting off all new federal research grants to Harvard
University. The move marks the administration's latest effort to demand political policy changes from the elite university and a major clash over
academic freedom. A Trump official says this will not specifically target research grant funding and will not impact federal Pell grants or student
loan funding at this time.
A White House official says it is estimated to impact more than a billion dollars a year in funding to Harvard. The Trump administration has already
frozen $2.2 billion in multi-year funding to the university. The battle continues.
Still ahead, a superstar rapper's fall from grace. The trial of Sean Diddy Combs is now underway in New York. We're going to discuss the serious and
sorted charges against him next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today. Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing to move Gaza's population after a security cabinet voted to expand the war there. He says Israel intends to hold onto
territory it captures. An Israeli source, says the escalation will happen after President Trump visits the region next week if no hostage deal is
reached.
Fresh off his Labor Party's win in the national election, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has spoken with U.S. President Donald Trump.
Albanese says the two spoke about tariffs and the AUKUS Defense Pact between the U.S., Australia, and the U.K. The Labor win is a stunning
comeback against Australia's conservative coalition, which had been ahead in the polls as recently as February.
President Trump is met with an American ballerina freed from a Russian prison. Ksenia Karelina was released last month as part of a prisoner
exchange. She's a dual U.S. and Russian citizen who was serving 12 years for treason. A Russian court found her guilty for, what, donating about $50
to a charity that supports Ukraine.
Well, jury selection is underway now in the trial of Sean Diddy Combs in New York City. The music mogul has been charged with five federal criminal
counts, including racketeering, sex trafficking, and prostitution. Combs, who has pleaded not guilty to all charges against him, appeared in court
for the start of the proceedings. He said he was feeling, quote, "a little nervous" as the trial kicked off. He could face life in prison if he's
convicted.
CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson is here. Joey, good to have you. Quite a trial. Very basic question. You've been in court a lot yourself. How solid
is the federal case against him?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it depends who you ask, right? If you ask prosecutors, Jim, good to be with you, their indication is is that
they've got him. Why? Because they believe that they have the necessary witnesses to come forward to talk about the lack of consent, to talk about
the coercion, to talk about what he did, to manipulate them to do what he wanted them to do, and that is to use his criminal enterprise essentially
for his own sexual pleasure pleasures and gratifications.
And he did it with drugs. He did it with guns. And he did it in the way that he needed to in order to get them to comply, right? Dole out money to
them when it was appropriate. Take away when it's not. Well, the defense says not so fast. This is not having anything to do with coercion. This has
to do with consent. These, the defense will say, are longtime girlfriends of his. Everything that was done was consensual in nature. And while he may
have lived a morally flawed life, right, the defense will argue that's not criminal.
It's not criminal to have parties where you might indulge your sexual pleasures as long as there's no prostitution, transporting them across
state lines or really exploitation with respect to engaging in sexual drug trafficking -- or excuse me, sexual trafficking or using your organization
as a racketeering organization to engage in bribery and all those other things.
So, it's not surprising, Jim, that there will be a battle of the narrative. Defense will try to wither away on credibility and other things and
basically tell the jury, stay away from shiny object. Because he lived this way, the defense will say, does not make him a criminal. It's what the jury
believes is to that which will determine whether he's guilty or lack thereof.
SCIUTTO: Joey, can you help me understand how courts define consent? And I imagine how juries are told to make this decision, because I imagine you
can give consent, but then the question becomes was it real consent? Was it -- was the power structure such that it wasn't genuine, right? Was there so
much money, power, threats involved, et cetera? How do courts handle that question?
JACKSON: Yes, I think that's critical here, and it's critical because that's the essence of the defense case. Consent is, was there a willing --
a willingness? Was there a voluntary action? Was it done on your own volition, or were you otherwise coerced or there were other things that
were done in order to get you to comply, to get you under control, to get you to do what I wanted you to do? And so, that'll be the issue, right?
On the one hand, whether there was simply voluntariness, and this was just sort of a freaky lifestyle that he lived and everybody was on board with
it, and everyone knew what he wanted and they did it not because he was this lord of an organization, the defense will argue, but because they
wanted to do it, and now they're flipping a strip and changing their tune.
And so, the narrative of that is going to have a lot to do, Jim, with carrying the day. If the jury believes that he was using, right, his vast
empire, his wealth, and all the rest of it, right, in terms of you doling out money to those who complied and not when it suited his interest, he has
a problem. If they believe that everyone were longtime girlfriends of his, and this is the lifestyle they led, then it's a different story.
[18:40:00]
And so, it's a struggle between those two and the balance between those two, which will really capture the day in terms of a jury verdict
ultimately.
SCIUTTO: Joey Jackson, thanks so much for helping us understand.
JACKSON: Absolutely. Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We're going now to Rio de Janeiro where two people have been arrested on suspicion of planting a bomb -- or planning a bomb attack at a
Lady Gaga concert. Police said the alleged plotters wanted to target specifically LGBTQ people.
The singer is a longtime ally for the community. Luckily, the concert did go off as planned. More than two people attended it. It was free. Gaga's
first show in Brazil in more than a decade. Joining me now is Julia Vargas Jones. Julia, I just wonder how close this came to a much sadder story.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's a great question. What we do know is that the people involved in this had claimed
outrageous things online. One of them was that Lady Gaga had a Satanist religious inclination, and that because of that, they should respond in the
same way, carrying out the Satanist ritual on a live stream at the same time as the show was ongoing in Copacabana.
Now, this is separate, I want to make clear, from this plot to carry out the attacks with the improvised explosives and Molotov cocktails that
police say that they foil. So, we have two separate threats going on at the same time, and that authority say was the work of an extremist group that
was spreading hate speech, and especially against the LGBTQ+ community, which was, you know, descended en mass in Copacabana this weekend.
They had communicated on Discord, a popular forum and messaging app, mostly used by gamers. And these extremist groups have become more and more common
in Brazil. You know, these servers have been associated with real-life incidents, especially among teens, which have to do with these challenges
online of harming themselves or others. That's really scary.
And I spoke to a Brazilian researcher and educator who has been studying and tracking these groups online to get a sense of how is it that they
work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RENATO LEVIN-BORGES, ONLINE HATE GROUPS RESEARCHER: First of all, they recruit young people with means and humor. Normally human -- normally with
humor that dehumanize minorities. After that, they start to put them inside private servers, normally underscored that you have to receive a private
invitation. After that, they start to make challenges, to climb the hierarchy inside this group. That's how they start to radicalize and create
this kind of violent challenge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, you can imagine, Jim, that police took this very seriously. You know, Brazil has been on this ongoing battle with social media platforms to
get them to take these kinds of threats seriously. But they also decided to not notify Lady Gaga's team. They said they only learned about it the next
day from media reports.
But I will say that did not stop Lady Gaga from claiming this as a huge success. She posted on social media, thanking her fans profusely saying how
grateful she was to have shared this historical moment with her Brazilian fans.
SCIUTTO: Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much. Well, President Trump wants to make the famous Alcatraz prison great again. Harboring the worst of the
worst, this off the coast of San Francisco. We're going to be live from there about just how serious this idea is right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: President Donald Trump says he wants to start putting criminals back in that prison there, Alcatraz. He said this weekend he is directing
officials to rebuild and enlarge the prison. It is, of course, one of the most notorious jails in the world. So famous they made a lot of great
movies about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has ever escaped from Alcaraz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And no one ever will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That was one of the great ones. Alcatraz sits on an island right off the coast of San Francisco. It was a high security prison, used mostly
for inmates who did not follow the rules at other prisons. It closed in the 1960s, in a sense, become a tourist attraction. More than 1 million people
visit every year. Here's how President Trump explains his move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It represents something very strong, very powerful in terms of law and order. We need law and order in this country. And so, we're going to
look at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Veronica Miracle, well, she's inside Alcatraz, thankfully not sentenced there, and she joins me now. I wonder, is this a serious
proposal?
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a very good question, Jim. I think that's what a lot of people who are not only visiting this
island are asking, but also a lot of the people who work here.
I have spoken to a lot of the park employees who are not allowed to say anything on the record, but there's been certainly a lot of thoughts. Let
me just start by showing you where I am. We're in the oldest cell block in Alcatraz. This was last used in the 1930s. All of this is original to when
it was built. And we can't move the camera around too much because our cell service is not great. But inside these cells, there's broken toilets, some
broken sinks, even if they were usable, they're not connected to any utilities. There's no running water on this island.
Every day they have to bring water in and ship things out. So, just to run it in order to, you know, service the thousands of tourists that come every
day, it is kind of a logistical nightmare I'm told. We spoke to a couple of tourists on the boat over here and got their thoughts. Here's what they had
to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON BROWN, ALCATRAZ VISITOR: I mean, I like Trump, but still at the same time it's like it's kind of crazy. A historic place and a park, and I don't
really agree with that.
CHRIS WILLS, ALCATRAZ VISITOR: No, they're taking away a piece of history from the City of San Francisco. And plus, it's going to cost taxpayers
money to be able to fund the prison in general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIRACLE: So, what's really incredible, Jim, is that this place, this National Historic Park, actually makes about $60 million a year in revenue
for the Park Service because there's so many visitors. They get about 300 to 400 tourists per hour, about 5,000 per day. So, this is a money maker in
order to even think about renovating it, actually, I've been told that there's no way you could renovate this. It would have to be a complete tear
down.
And so, you'd have to spend taxpayer dollars to rebuild it essentially from the ground up. Figure out a way to connect utilities here. There's just a
lot of different moving parts that I'm told off the record would make this very difficult.
And then, on top of all of that, in terms of housing, at its peak, this place housed about 300 inmates. And so, that's not a lot of people you
know, for the logistics that go into housing it. So, it just wouldn't be very economical, is what I'm told. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on 60 years since the last inmate there as well. Veronica Miracle on Alcatraz, thanks so much. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: 133 Catholic Cardinals will soon elect a new pope. The Vatican says all of them have now arrived in Rome. They've been traveling from all
over the world since the passing of Pope Francis. The secretive and momentous task of choosing a new head of the Catholic Church will begin
behind the closed doors of the legendary Sistine Chapel on Wednesday.
As Catholic cardinals gather at the Vatican to elect a new pope, the succession of another world religious leader could have major geopolitical
and societal impact. CNN's Steven Jiang took a rare trip to Tibet and spoke with monks and officials there about the selection of the next Dalai Lama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): More than 2 million visitors, mostly from within China, flocked to the Potala Palace in 2024,
paying up to $27 for a ticket to tour the most famous landmark in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa.
JIANG: For centuries, this imposing and sprawling structure behind me was the winter residence for the Dalai Lamas until 1959. That was the year when
the 14th Dalai Lama had to flee Tibet after a failed uprising against Beijing.
JIANG (voice-over): In a book published in early 2025, the almost 90- year- old spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism said his successor, his reincarnation, must be born, quote, "in the free world," meaning outside
China, to carry out the traditional mission in the Himalayan region, a region so tightly controlled by Beijing that the only way for foreign
reporters to visit is through government-organized media tours.
CNN was on one such rare trip in March 2025 and asked the monks and officials in Tibet about the remarks by the Dalai Lama, someone Beijing has
labeled an anti-China separatist.
GONGGA ZHAXI, POTALA PALACE ADMINISTRATION OFFICE (through translator): The central government has clear regulations on this matter. The reincarnation
of each Dalai Lama must be approved by the central government. The search must take place within China.
JIANG (voice-over): Not surprisingly, Tibetans in exile rejecting this notion, with a spokesman for the Tibetan government in exile saying, quote,
"his holiness is the only legitimate soul who can decide upon where his holiness should be born in his next life. Nobody else, even the Chinese
government," unquote.
But Beijing has done almost exactly that. In 1995, the government forcibly disappeared a six-year-old boy when he was recognized by the exiled Dalai
Lama as the new Panchen Lama, the second highest ranking figure in Tibetan Buddhism. China instead installed its own choice, a different Tibetan boy
to the position, a decision still denounced by critics three decades later.
During CNN's most recent trip, a senior monk at Tibet's most sacred temple insisted he wasn't worried about the prospect of competing Dalai Lamas
chosen by different authorities.
[18:55:00]
LA BA, JOKHANG TEMPLE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE (through translator): That the reincarnation should be recognized by the central government has been
settled for many years.
JIANG (voice-over): Not everyone shares this sentiment. With some analysts fearing a scenario of dueling Dalai Lamas could shake the foundation of
Tibetan religion and society, potentially unleashing fresh anger or even unrest in a land known as the roof of the world.
Steven Jiang, CNN, Lhasa, Tibet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: It's an important story to watch. Well, happening this hour, celebrities are descending on New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art for the
Met Gala. This year's theme, super fine tailoring black style. Formula 1 driver Lewis Hamilton and actor Colman Domingo are co-chairs of the gala,
they were among the first to arrive.
The annual event raises funds for the museum's costume institute. The exhibit there is currently featuring black designers exclusively and
exploring black style from the time of the Atlantic diaspora to today.
And thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
