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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump: "Real Starvation In Gaza"; Netanyahu Claims "There Is No Starvation In Gaza"; Trump Gives Putin 10 Or 12 Days To Reach Ceasefire Deal; U.S.-E.U. Trade Deal Backlash; U.S. And E.U. Agree To New Trade Framework; Genocide Scholar May Leave Columbia University; Victorious Lionesses Come Home. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 28, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump contradicts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu insisting, quote, "There is real starvation in Gaza."
France, and Germany hid out at the trade deal between the U.S. and E.U. German Chancellor Merz says it will do considerable damage. And England's
Lionesses are welcomed home after their Euro victory over Spain.
We begin once again in Gaza. President Donald Trump, who just a few days ago, called on Israel to, quote, "finish the job in Gaza" appears to be
publicly breaking with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over his characterization of the humanitarian crisis there. The president
acknowledging pictures like this one, it seems, and the growing international condemnation over the treatment of Palestinians.
He's promising the U.S. will establish food centers to address the hunger crisis. Not clear how he's going to do that crisis killing more people each
day. This weekend, the Israeli Prime Minister flat out denied there's any starvation in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Israel is presented as though we are applying a campaign of starvation in Gaza. What a bold face lie.
There is no policy of starvation in Gaza and there is no starvation in Gaza.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Some of those kids are -- that's real starvation stuff. I see it. And you can't fake that. So, we're going to be
even more involved.
SCIUTTO: Just today, Gaza's Health Ministry reported 14 more people had starved to death in just the last 24 hours, that comes as two major Israeli
human rights groups are joining accusations that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Israel has repeatedly denied, even criticized that claim
with the IDF saying 20 aid packages have now been airdropped into Gaza in the last several hours. That method in the past has proven both expensive
and dangerous.
Nic Robertson has this report from Jerusalem. A warning once again, some of the images you're going to see here are truly disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Baby Zeinab cradled in her father's loving arms, fought for life as long as she
could. Her tiny emaciated body a now silent witness to Gaza's new horror, malnutrition.
Once a happy, healthy baby, dead at five months old. She passed away as her mother carried her to the hospital for a checkup.
This is her photo before she got sick, she says, and this is the medical referral. My daughter suffered greatly from her illness, malnutrition, and
a lack of milk due to the closure of the crossings.
A little over a week ago, CNN saw Zeinab in hospital alive.
ROBERTSON: How old is she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's now five months. Five months old.
ROBERTSON: And how -- what is her weight?
ROBERTSON (voice-over): British doctor, Nick Maynard, was helping treat Zeinab. He was on one of his many life-saving missions to Gaza, and was
recording a video diary for CNN.
DR. NICK MAYNARD, PEDIATRICIAN: There've been four newborn babies in the last couple of weeks who died as a direct result of malnutrition. Their
mothers with two malnourished to produce milk. There are inadequate amounts of formula feed.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Zeinab's wizened skin and boned body was clinging to life, and there was hope. After CNN's report, Zeinab was offered a
medical evacuation abroad. Her father clutching her dead body, tells us her referral was ready and we were waiting for the crossing to open. But she
found peace and rose to the heavens. We did everything we could.
[18:05:00]
According to her doctors, she had no underlying medical conditions, cases like hers, increasingly common, he says.
DR. AHMAD AL-FARRA, ZEINAB'S PHYSICIAN: It came to the hospital as a body because of severe, severe starvation and unavailability of the special
formula for milk that it is suitable for her. This is one of the examples for not allowing and for closing borders against milk and against a special
formula of milk for children.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): More than 120 dead in Gaza from malnutrition, he says. Two-thirds of them are children because they're more vulnerable.
Israeli officials say they abide by international law, allow aid into Gaza and blame Hamas for the shortages.
Baby Zeinab never knew any of that or about a ceasefire or negotiations over meters of land or numbers of hostages and prisoners to be exchanged.
She came into the world innocent. And left it the same way her parents, lives heavier carrying the loss than what might have been.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Yet one more child victim of this war. Steve Sosebee is co-founder and executive director of HEAL Palestine, a non-profit, non-religious group
offering help to Palestinian children and their families. The organization is now opening a new clinic in Gaza. Steve, thanks so much for joining.
Steve, can you hear me OK?
All right. We're going to get those audio problems fixed and we'll bring Steve back momentarily.
President Donald Trump is shortening his deadline for Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine. One of several deadlines Trump has posited. Speaking in
Scotland earlier, Trump said the Russian president now has 10 to 12 days to reach a ceasefire before the U.S. will hit Moscow with harsher economic
penalties, Trump told reporters the peace process had been much more difficult than he expected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, I was tough on Putin because I was the one that closed up Nord Stream and Biden came along and opened it up. I was very tough on Putin in
one way. But we got along very well. And I never -- you know, I never really thought this would happen. I thought we'd be able to negotiate
something. And maybe that'll still happen, but it's very late down the process. So, I'm disappointed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Remember, he said a week deadline many weeks ago, changed that to 50 days. Now, he says 10 to 12 days. Ukraine's President Zelenskyy hailed
Trump's, quote, "determination" after he announced that shortened timeline.
The news has -- also have renewed fears that Russia could come even more aggressively against Ukraine. Nick Paton Walsh reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there has been obviously a positive Ukrainian reaction to the news of a
significantly shortened deadline from U.S. President Donald Trump suggesting again Zelenskyy's chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, this is about
peace through strength and have Vladimir Putin essentially respect power.
But I don't think there's much positivity that suddenly in the next 10 days we'll see an urgent peace deal signed and agreed to by the Kremlin. Bear in
mind that, at the moment, Ukraine is experiencing significant issues along its eastern frontline with three key towns at risk of some kind of
encirclement by Russian forces.
Russia's progress incremental, yes, but beginning in this intense offensive to show some kind of strategic gain. The shortened deadline will certainly
remove concerns that this 50-day deadline had originally given the Putin administration most of the summer to pursue their offensive. But it doesn't
immediately cause change in Russia's military maneuvers. And indeed, the 10 days ahead could cause Russia to advance significantly in other areas.
And you have to also bear in mind too exactly what Trump is indeed threatening here. The secondary sanctions or tariffs won't necessarily be
directed towards Russia, they're directed towards Russia's primary customers of energy, China and India. Now, China is utterly dependent on
Russian oil and gas and a key ally of Moscow. India is an American ally that's also dependent on Russian gas. And indeed, through complex
mechanisms, has been allowed to keep buying Russian oil and gas to essentially keep the global oil price lower.
[18:10:00]
In the event of sanctions or tariffs against these two key customers, that's going to cause havoc across the global energy market, probably cause
American gas prices to rise to some degree. So, Trump is threatening something that would have an extraordinary impact on the global economy for
sure. And in indeed potentially mean that he's doing things that his predecessor, President Joe Biden, felt were perhaps a little too severe.
This may cause Beijing to reach out and pressure Moscow. But they have suggested in talks with E.U. diplomats that they ultimately think they
can't afford to see Russia lose this war because that would mean the U.S.'s primary focus shifts entirely towards China. So, I'm sure there are many in
Ukraine here who hear sirens like you can hear now every night that will welcome the renewed urgency that indeed Trump's new deadline sets to
finding peace here or addressing Ukraine's issues on the frontline. But I don't think many people here believe it's going to suddenly change their
course in the war.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Back now to our top story. The worsening humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Steve Sosebee, co-founder and executive director of HEAL Palestine
joins me now. Steve, you got me OK?
STEVE SOSEBEE, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEAL PALESTINE: I do, Jim. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Great. Well, you've helped evacuate dozens of wounded children from Gaza. I wonder if you could describe the scale of the crisis you're
seeing there. It stood out to me that you and your team have described the largest population of child amputees in modern history as one of the
measures of just how far and wide the suffering is there.
SOSEBEE: Yes. I think the suffering is complete beyond any measurable -- you know, any way that we could properly measure how children are
suffering, it's beyond the scope of anything that modern language can describe. We have thousands and thousands of children who are amputees. We
have children who are -- thousands of children who are orphans, who have suffered this psychological trauma. Every child in Gaza is traumatized
psychologically from witnessing and experiencing the effects of genocide all around them.
They're displaced. They haven't been in school for two years. Imagine children are starting the third year of this genocide without going to
school and how -- what's the long-term impact that that's going to have on their lives?
But most importantly is the health system has been completely destroyed. So, children who are born with birth defects, kids who acquire any kind of
disease or have any kind of injury that comes up, they're not getting adequate medical care as well. In addition to the thousands and thousands,
over 30,000 children are severely injured as a result of the bombings that have gone on since October of 2023.
So, it's a complete destruction of the health system, of the education system, of civil society, and aid organizations are not having access to go
in and provide any kind of support at this time, and being able to help alleviate the suffering of these innocent children.
SCIUTTO: You heard the Israeli prime minister say there is no starvation in Gaza, which even President Trump is now contradicting. Have you seen
evidence of malnutrition and/or starvation among the children you're treating?
SOSEBEE: Of course. Of course. We have a group of children coming out on Wednesday. 11 injured children with their family members. And our team on
the ground in Gaza have all have expressed to us that all of them are suffering from malnutrition. We are talking about children who've had their
legs amputated, kids who are suffering from severe burns, and we have a team in Jordan waiting for them, of nutritionists and pediatricians, who
are going to help receive them and hopefully, provide them the treatment that they deserve and need, considering they're coming out without any kind
of proper nutrition or care over the past several months.
Let's keep in mind that over one-third of the children in Gaza are surviving on less than one meal a day. So, the children that are most
vulnerable are these kids who are being injured, who are living displaced, in tents, who are not getting access to medical care, they're coming here,
they're going to be coming out of Gaza with severe malnutrition, and that's in addition to the horrific injuries that they've suffered as a result of
the bombing campaigns against the civilian population of Gaza.
SOSEBEE: As you know, Israeli officials blame Hamas solely for the lack of food or sufficient food and other humanitarian aid in Gaza. And they and
others sometimes blame the U.N. and they say the U.N. is sitting on a whole host of aid on the border, not currently going into Gaza. What's your
response? What have you and your team witnessed on the ground in terms of why there's just not food, not enough food to go around?
SOSEBEE: Well, that's a great question. Prior to March of this year, we had several food kitchens on the ground in Gaza, and we were feeding thousands
of people every single day in Gaza through our partnerships and food coming in through the borders. Since March, we've had to close our kitchens, and
that's not a result of the regime in Gaza, it's not a result of the United Nations, it's a result of the inability of our organization being granted
permission to bring aid into Gaza by the Israeli government.
[18:15:00]
So, we -- it's quite clear that were the borders to be open and organizations like ours allowed to continue our mission of providing
humanitarian aid on the ground that we could feed tens of thousands of people tomorrow. Unfortunately, we're not permitted to get aid in at this
time, and therefore, the impact is that children are going without food, people are starving, and the long-term consequences of children who are
suffering from malnutrition is irreversible. And that's the impact that's going to have a long-lasting impact that's going to be the legacy of --
this horrific genocide is going to be the long-term impact of the malnutrition that's taking place in Gaza today.
SCIUTTO: I spoke to a doctor on Friday, Travis Moline, who's currently in Gaza, and he said that following the points of the day when food is
distributed at this very limited number of food sites in Gaza run by this new foundation, Israeli-U.S. partnership, that at his hospital he sees
waves, dozens of people coming in injured, sometimes shot or worse. Have you and your teams witnessed similar results, injuries, et cetera,
following those aid distribution points?
SOSEBEE: They have. They've seen this firsthand. Our teams in our -- we have a a field hospital in Mawasi and Khan Younis, which receives injured
patients that are coming in as a result of being sniped and injured, trying to get food through these distribution centers. And our team on the ground
is experiencing firsthand the impact of these atrocities.
Over 1,000 people have been killed trying to get aid at these so-called distribution centers. American soldiers, American mercenaries, who are
employed by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation have said themselves that they've witnessed the killing of innocent people who are just trying to
feed themselves and feed their families. Imagine you're starving. You don't have food. Your children are hungry. Half the population of Gaza are
children, and you're a father and you want to feed your kids, and you go to these aid sites and suddenly, people are shooting at you, tank shells, and
snipers.
And this is documented. There's no question that it's happening. And the world is watching. And we need to do -- put an end to it. This is an
unimaginable atrocity that's on our -- that's our responsibility that we have to put an end to. And it's organizations like ours, which are ready
tomorrow to provide aid, provide food, recontinue our distribution of humanitarian aid, but we're prevented from doing so. And that has to stop.
SCIUTTO: Steve Sosebee, we appreciate the work you and your team are doing there. Thanks for joining.
SOSEBEE: Thank you. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, European politicians criticize a new trade framework with Washington. We're going to hear from a former U.S. trade
representative on the winners and losers from this deal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." The framework for trade just announced between the E.U. and U.S. is getting low marks from some top
European leaders. The French prime minister called the agreement, quote, "a submission" and calls today a dark day for Europe. Germany's chancellor
fears the deal will cause considerable damage for his country's economy. European stocks and the European currency fell on concerns over how the
deal will impact European growth.
Little enthusiasm on Wall Street too with the major averages finishing Monday's session mixed. As has been the case for a lot of the partial U.S.
trade agreements recently, much about this deal remains unclear. Most European imports the U.S. will face a 15 percent tariff rate, lower than
the 30 percent rate President Trump had threatened, but far above tariff levels just last year. Those 15 percent tariffs will apply to E.U. auto
imports lower than the current levels, but the tariff rate on E.U. wines and spirits has not yet been set. And while the E.U. has agreed to invest
some $600 billion in the U.S. economy, as part of the deal, officials admit they cannot enforce those commitments.
In other trade news, the U.S. and China also began a new round of negotiations in Stockholm today. The South China Morning Post reports both
sides are expected to extend their current tariff true for another 90 days.
President Trump had this to say about the tariff rates set to kick in August 1st on August 1st for those countries still without trade deals with
the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said you were going to set essentially a tariff for the rest of the world. What --
TRUMP: For the world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What percent will that tariff be?
TRUMP: I would say it'll be somewhere in the 15 to 20 percent range.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, maybe 15 or 20 or --
TRUMP: No, I said, you know, I sort of know. I just want to be nice. I would say in the range of 15 to 20 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Those are the latest numbers. Former U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk joins me now. Good to have you on. Thanks for joining.
RON KIRK, FORMER U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, here we have another case of the U.S., in effect, bullying some of its closest allies into a trade deal that favors the U.S., right,
15 percent tariffs on Europe -- E.U. imports to the U.S., none on U.S. exports to Europe. Is this a fair deal? And how do you expect this will
affect the trading relationship between the E.U. and the U.S.?
KIRK: Jim, this is just another example of this president's preference for theater and drama rather than on sound, economic, and strategic policy. I
mean, arguably it's good for the U.S. unless you happen to be in the auto industry. That depends on steel tariffs that are still going to be set at
50 percent, or if you're an auto dealer who's now going to have to pay 15 percent more for vehicles than they did last year.
Because even though the administration loves to say, oh, this is a win for us, which this president in particular is just obsessed with being able to
say he won. What we don't have is long-term certainty of what the trading relationship will look like. And in this case, this is the longest economic
strategic partnership the U.S. has, even though we don't have a free trade agreement, we trade more freely with the countries and the European Union
than any other trading block. And for the most part, that's been duty free.
So, it's hard to see how it's going to be a win when it's going to be American families and American businesses that are paying that 15 percent.
Because we say it every time, and thank you for highlighting it, these tariffs are borne by American business and consumers.
SCIUTTO: The -- there are, we should note, no enforcement mechanism mechanisms for the purchases that the E.U. has committed to. And I wonder,
you've been in the middle of trade negotiations before. I mean, will E.U. countries actually buy Boeing jets over Airbus jets based on these
commitments? Will they buy U.S.-made cars over E.U.-made cars? I mean, that are better suited to their markets.
KIRK: Well, I think, Jim, what do you have when one -- we won't know. And thank you for highlighting the fact.
[18:25:00]
This is, yet again, another example the administration announces something. Once we see the terms of the agreement, what form it'll take, we'll know
more. My sense a lot of these purchases are going to be in natural gas, as many of the member states of the European Union try to wean themselves away
from dependence on natural gas from Russia. So, a lot of this would've happened organically. But as fierce as the competition has been between
Boeing and Airbus, I don't think you're going to see a lot of E.U. flag carriers buying, buying Boeing jets.
SCIUTTO: The agreement still needs approval from E.U. member nations, and yet, you have the leaders of two of those nations with two of the biggest
economies in the E.U., Germany and France, saying, this deal is no good for us. I mean, do you see this deal actually coming to be?
KIRK: Well, it's going to be troublesome for Germany in particular because of the number of German automobiles that are sold into United States. And
not to be flippant, France is always a challenge because of their concerns about agriculture and other issues. But the reality is the E.U., like many
countries, are realizing they're dealing with a somewhat unpredictable negotiate or own the other side and just trying to walk back from what
would least be -- at least be a worst-case scenario.
And then finally, we don't know what the terms of this deal are going to be. I mean, this administration has now -- this is the third iteration
since liberation day, oh, we're going to levy terrorists. We're not going to back down. And I don't think anybody's going to be surprised if come
Friday we don't see an extension of the agreement with China, as well as giving more time to those other countries that haven't yet reached an
agreement.
But it's not a -- I don't think it's a good deal for either country, but the reality, they're dealing with the leader who is obsessed with trying to
change the world order on economics and do it through tariffs, and they're trying to make the best of a bad deal.
SCIUTTO: Ron Kirk, former U.S. trade representative, appreciate you joining.
KIRK: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Chinese technology can be useful and is often inexpensive, but that's not a smart reason to rely on it unless we know the risk we face.
I'm quoting a recent New York Times editorial about the future of TikTok, the Chinese-own social media app facing an uncertain future here in the
U.S.
With President Trump delaying deadlines repeatedly to sell that app or face a ban. Glenn Gerstell argues there's no single way to guarantee the
security of user data. But he suggests new privacy legislation and a cybersecurity rating system for apps just like the ones in consumer
reports. Glenn Gerstell was general counsel to the NSA under Presidents Obama and Trump, and he joins me now. Good to have you on.
GLENN GERSTELL, FORMER NSA GENERAL COUNSEL 2015-2020 AND CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, this was, as I remember it, an urgent national security threat. So, much so that a large bipartisan majority in Congress passed a
ban, you have to do it now. Trump has delayed it multiple times, and I don't hear a whimper of opposition from the Hill. What happened?
GERSTELL: So, this is pretty amazing. In terms of national security situations, we're off the map, in uncharted territory. We had a situation
where just 16 months ago, as you said, a bipartisan majority, overwhelming majority, 84 percent of members of the House, you can't even get 84 percent
of them to agree on anything, right?
SCIUTTO: Sure.
GERSTELL: Agreed that this was such an urgent national security problem that they were going to give the app, TikTok, 270 days to get -- changed
out of Chinese hands or else it would be banned in the United States. It was already banned on federal government phones and many state government
phones. So, this was a pretty urgent problem. So urgent, they didn't even hold a hearing on the question of what remedies and alternatives were.
And here we are 16 months later. We have an outlawed app that is used by one out of every two or three Americans. It's banned on federal government
phones and state government phones, but seems to be used by lots of state governments and municipal governments. It's banned elsewhere in the --
around the world. And from Congress' point of view, you don't hear much, just nothing to see here, keep moving.
SCIUTTO: The Intelligence Communities' assessment of TikTok hasn't changed. You say in your piece that what changed might very well have been Trump's
own calculation of his own interests. For one, he thought TikTok helped him win the election.
GERSTELL: So, he's got 15 million followers on TikTok and he said outright I, you know, think that they played a role in my election, and he said, I'm
going to save TikTok. That was his quote. And he asked Vice President Vance to try to help find a deal.
[18:30:00]
So, he's, instead of enforcing a national security law that's on the books, he just said, I'm just not going to -- I'm unilaterally not going to
enforce. I'm going to direct my attorney general not to enforce it, and we'll see if we can come up with a deal.
SCIUTTO: Why aren't we hearing from voices inside the intelligence agencies, law enforcement, et cetera, saying, this is a national security
threat, we have to do something about this?
GERSTELL: So, we've heard a little bit from the chairman of the China Select Committee in the House, John Moolenaar, who's -- although he hasn't
directly criticized President Trump, member of his own party, he said, I'm really concerned we need to do something about it. You've heard some
others. But the Intelligence Community, their role is not to comment on policy. They've already given their classified advice about the nature of
this risk. You may agree with it or disagree with it, or think it's overhyped, but whatever it is, it's a law that's on the books and it's
supposed to be enforced.
SCIUTTO: What is the solution short of either Congress waking up to its legislative duty or the president not delaying this anymore? What needs to
be done?
GERSTELL: So, presumably a deal will be struck. It's hard to envision a situation, although I wouldn't put it past us, for the president just to
constantly giving 75 days rolling forward for the next several years. That really doesn't make any sense. It hurts our national security. It makes
people wonder what is a national security statute? It's a bad precedent for the -- for any president to just simply say, we're not going to be
enforcing laws. So, I assume that some deal will be cooked up.
Whether it actually meets the technical requirements of the statute remains to be seen. The president could simply say, I deem it to be satisfied and
will be stuck with that situation perhaps, or in fact, China may agree, President Xi may agree to give up the algorithm. It may, in fact, be passed
on to friendly hands and that would be a good solution.
The alternative was something that President Biden worked on for two years, which was a negotiated compromise settlement with TikTok, in which they'd
say, OK, we'll keep the app owned by China, but we'll make the operations all centralized in the United States with an American board of governors or
directors to oversee it, with audits oversight. The data would be kept in Oracle's computers in the United States and not be able to be siphoned off
to Beijing.
Whether we have a deal that comes up, it is as good as the deal that was on the table two years ago or is better, will remains to be seen.
SCIUTTO: Is the battle, to some degree, already lost? I mean, as you say, nearly one in two Americans is using this every day, which means that
TikTok already owns their data, right?
GERSTELL: Exactly. And this is -- if you believe TikTok's numbers, this is a app that is used by millions of Americans to support their businesses,
their local businesses. As I mentioned earlier, some state municipal governments. So, this app is well entrenched into American social media and
our day-to-day commercial and business lives. And in fact, it sort of shows a broader point, which is that we often wait until too late to recognize
the nature of some technological problem, and then we have to fix it or just shrug our shoulders and say, well, we're just going to have to live
with it.
SCIUTTO: Wow. Well, as you say, it's not a great precedent to set when it comes to national security legislation. Glenn Gerstell, thanks so much for
joining.
GERSTELL: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: A genocide scholar at Columbia University says she may leave over the school's new definition of antisemitism. Professor Marianne Hirsch says
she will not be able to teach under those rules. She joins me after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today.
The Israeli military says 28 packages have been airdropped into Gaza over the past several hours. Jordan and the United Arab Emirates carried out
those airdrops over the weekend amid growing international outrage over widening starvation in Gaza. Two leading Israeli human rights groups have
joined accusations that Israel is now committing genocide there. Israel denies it. Another 14 people have died of starvation in the past 24 hours,
according to Gaza's Health Ministry.
A ceasefire between Thailand and Cambodia appears to be holding this hour. The two sides agreed to an immediate and unconditional ceasefire during
talks in Malaysia on Monday after days of border clashes. At least 38 people were killed along the disputed border between the two nations,
causing many people to flee.
High temperatures and strong winds are fueling a new outbreak of wildfires across Southern Europe. In Athens, Greece emergency teams battle the blaze,
which broke out in your university campus there. You can see the smoke rising. The fourth largest city in Turkey is also under threat from
wildfires. More than 1,700 people near Bursa refers to evacuate their homes. One firefighter has died.
The powerful sister of North Korean dictator, Kim Jong Un, is slamming South Korea and rejecting recent peace overtures. Kim Yo Jong says North
Korea has no interest in talks with Seoul no matter what diplomatic proposal is offered, that according to state media. CNN's Will Ripley takes
a closer look at exactly what instigated those comments and why it matters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korean leader Kim Jong Un commands the spotlight. His sister, Kim Yo Jong
on the far right usually stands on the sideline, until she doesn't. This week in North Korean state media, she called South Korea the enemy,
slamming their new president, Lee Jae Myung, rejecting any chance for dialogue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She exuded confidence. She exuded arrogance even.
RIPLEY (voice-over): She's a major architect of her older brother's carefully choreographed image, like this recent meeting with Russia's
foreign minister on one of Kim's yachts. She was also by his side when Kim met President Donald Trump.
JOSEPH YUN, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR NORTH KOREA POLICY: His sister, who is always around him, kind of acts as his chief of staff.
RIPLEY (voice-over): And Kim's enforcer. When South Korean activists sent anti-Kim leaflets north by balloon last year, she publicly defended flying
trash filled balloons South, triggering cell phone alerts for millions. She also ordered the dramatic demolition of this border office, shared with the
South.
Believed to be in her late 30, Kim Yo Jong has been rising in power for years, promoted to the pilot bureau, the senior body of North Korea's
Communist party. She represented her brother at the 2018 Winter Olympics in South Korea.
[18:40:00]
Being a part of North Korea's legendary Pechu bloodline is not always a path to power and prestige. Kim had his own uncle executed by firing squad
for treason and other charges. North Korea denies Kim ordered the brazen assassination of his half-brother at a Malaysian airport with a Cold War
nerve agent.
Kim's sister is most known for her fiery rhetoric and fierce loyalty to her brother. One of the only people North Korea's most powerful person can
trust.
Will Ripley. CNN. Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: You're watching "The Brief," and we'll be right back.
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SCIUTTO: A genocide scholar at Columbia University says she may now leave the school over its new definition of what constitutes antisemitism.
Professor Marianne Hirsch fears she will be sanctioned simply for teaching the book "Eichman in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." The
author, Hannah Arendt, criticized the founding of Israel. Professor Hirsch says that even mentioning a Arendt could break Columbia's new rules, which
has cast some criticisms of Israel as hate speech.
Professor Marianne Hirsch joins me now. Thanks so much for taking the time.
MARIANNE HIRSCH, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Thanks for inviting me.
SCIUTTO: You and other Jewish faculty have called for a clear line between criticism of Israel or Israeli policies and antisemitism. I wonder what you
think the impact is of blurring that line, that distinction.
HIRSCH: Well, I don't want to deny that there's antisemitism. It's an age- old millennial problem. And I -- but I think it's extremely important to define it clearly and to educate people on what it actually is, rather than
blurring or obfuscating this definition.
Blurring the line means that you cannot criticize a state, Israel or any state, because that then becomes hatred of a group. And it means that if
the implication is that all Jews are identified or that their identity is completely equal to the State of Israel.
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Now, there are many, many ways of being Jewish. There are Jews in the diaspora in just about every country in the world and that loyalty or
conflation with Israel applies to some, but not all. So, I think that one can be anti-Israeli, anti-Israeli actions as one could be critical of the
United States without it being hate speech against a specific group, Jews.
SCIUTTO: You've compared this new policing in effect of speech critical of Israel to your own family's experience under the dictatorship in Romania.
Can you explain why this has echoes of that for you?
HIRSCH: Well, I grew up under an authoritarian regime as a child in Romania in the 1950s, which was extremely repressive. There were certain things --
you had to be loyal to the party. There are things you couldn't say out in public without possibly being informed on by your neighbors and exposed and
fired from your job. I mean, my parents were constantly worried about that. There were things I knew as a young child I couldn't say in public,
criticism of the regime or pointing out some of the lies that were told on the radio or in the newspapers about the -- you know, about the regime and
its priorities. So, it was a very, very repressive place to grow up.
It was also deeply, deeply antisemitic. So, I experienced anti-Jewish hatred or hatred of me and my family as a Jew on the street playing with
other kids, where they would just throw out, you know, you are going to burn in hell because you don't -- you have not taken Jesus Christ into your
heart. Even though religion was actually disallowed under communism, it survived. And this was religious, really religious antisemitism, but also
just animus and prejudice and discrimination against a group, Jews.
So, I know what it is. And I know how to tell what it is, and it's really about being anti-Jewish. But it's really the repression, the silencing, and
the fear that produces echoes in me now. Where we will be, you know, on Columbia's campus monitored, where there is not only does policy, the
International Holocaust Alliance -- Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism, which conflates Jewishness with Israel, which disallows
comparing what Israel does with Nazism and which disallows having double standards to Israel and other nations.
But there's also training, to train students to tell what antisemitism is, and then there's a training according to those rules. And then, there's a
zero-tolerance policy. So, it will be very hard to interpret some of the things that we teach openly.
SCIUTTO: Let me -- we've seen Columbia leadership make a series of concessions to the Trump administration on this and other issues. Do you
see it as caving, Columbia's caving to political pressure?
HIRSCH: Absolutely. I think that, you know, there's some in the Columbia administration that are saying that we've always already wanted to make
some of these changes, but I do not think that these changes are warranted.
I also think that Columbia has conceded that there's rampant antisemitism, for example, on our campus when we know -- and you know, it's pretty
obvious that these accusation of rampant antisemitism and Columbia's inability to curb it are really a form of obfuscating and silencing student
protest against the brutal war that touches them very personally as injustice that they're witnessing on their phones and on their screens day
after day, after day.
So, I think this is very deliberate. And yes, I think Columbia, unfortunately, has capitulated to demands that are very unreasonable and
that have a severe impact on academic freedom on -- you know, they say that they've preserved hiring, teaching admissions, but if you read the
agreement closely, you see that there have been a lot of concessions on those points and that there will be a monitor, an independent monitor who
will examine Columbia's compliance. And that opens itself up to many disputes and how those disputes will be adjudicated is really a big
unknown.
So, I think as faculty we're worried. But I do want to make one thing clear, I am officially retired from Columbia. However, I've been teaching
one course per year, and some of the courses I teach touch on Jewish studies, on genocide, and on the Holocaust.
[18:50:00]
But I -- you know, I'm not planning to leave Columbia. I've already retired, but I have canceled a course last year and a course for this year
because of this discomfort.
SCIUTTO: Understood. Well, Professor Marianne Hirsch, I hope that you are able to retain your voice, and we appreciate you joining.
HIRSCH: Thanks so much.
SCIUTTO: Still to come on "The Brief," England's Lionesses are back home and ready to celebrate after yet another stunning European championship.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Wow. Fans of the Lionesses celebrating after England's win in the European Championship with the trophy coming home once again. The team
successfully defended their title with a victory over World Champion Spain on Sunday, winning on a penalty shootout.
Joining me now discussing CNN Sports Analysts and columnist for USA Today Christine Brennan. Always good to talk to you. This was a real nail biter.
Anyone that ends in penalties is and also come from behind story.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Oh, it is, Jim. You know, this is, you know, the pinnacle, at least right now, between World Cups and Olympic
Games. And, you know, for England to do it twice in a row, a country that invented soccer a million years ago, well before you and I were around, but
then told women for 50 years, you know, you can't play, you cannot come on the FA grounds. Basically, from 1921 to their early 1970s.
So, you invent the game and then you say half of your population, no, you can't play. Well. England then got way behind. The U.S. obviously Title IX.
We saw the U.S. Women's World Cup in 1999. They're winning that in the Rose Bowl, 90,000, 40 million watching on TV. We saw Norway, we saw China. Other
countries pick up the ball. Well, England's back. And that dark history of not letting women play the game for all those years, for those decades,
that's long, long in the rear-view mirror.
This is a glorious time for the sport worldwide. Absolutely spectacular time in Europe and a great time for the Lionesses. And when you've got the
king -- or the prince in Charlotte, the princess there, you know, you know, it's an important match. You know people care. It's cultural. It's not just
sports. It's the entire nation caring about its female soccer players the way they've cared for decades, lived and died, with their male soccer
players.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, tell us about the standouts on the team and their coach, Serena Wegman.
BRENNAN: Well, she's one of the greats of all time. I mean, she's been around. She's won so many other things. You see her on the sidelines and,
you know, hey, that's a winning team. You know, that's the team that is going to be able to pull it off. So, she's one of the greats. And we're
seeing these top women coaches, coaching women, which is another key factor.
[18:55:00]
You know, over the years, men were the coaches of women's teams. And now, women are rising to the top. And we've seen that in the U.S. as well. And
you know, Chloe Kelly with the penalty, you know, that's it. That's as exciting as it gets. And interesting, Jim, I was reading that that winning
penalty by Kelly, to give England that second straight Euro -- Women's Euro championship was actually faster, clocked as a faster kick than what any
male had in the Premier League this year.
And I must -- I'm hoping that's correct information. Point being these women are playing a great brand of soccer and football, as it's known
around the world. For years, they were denigrated, right? For years, people laughed at the women's game. Well, no more. And those kinds of statistics
are so important in telling the story of female athletes now in 2025.
SCIUTTO: Goodness, velocity on the kick. That'll shut up some of the, well, it's not so good, you know, not as good as the boys. Christine Brennan,
always good to have you on.
BRENNAN: Jim, thank you very much.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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