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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

Emory University Shooting; Trump Confirms He'll Meet Putin Soon; Putin And Witkoff Discussed Ceasefire Deal Involving Russian Control Of Donetsk And Luhansk; Backlash Over Israel's Gaza City Takeover Plan; Israeli Security Cabinet Approves Plan To Control Gaza City; Texas Redistricting Fight; Letitia James Under Investigation. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 08, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching

"The Brief."

Just ahead this hour, a shooting reported at Emory University's main campus in Atlanta. President Trump confirms he will meet with Vladimir Putin,

quote, "very shortly" as his deadline for Russia to end its war with Ukraine is set to expire today. And Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu defends his

plan to seize Gaza City amid growing international condemnation.

We do have this devastating breaking news this hour. Emory University reporting an active shooter near its main campus in Atlanta, Georgia. The

university tells people, as they often do in situations like this, run, hide, fight, as well as to avoid the Emory Point area. I should note that

the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are also nearby the site. These are live pictures we're showing you right now. And we'll stay on top

of that story as we get more updates.

Well, President Trump said today, he will soon meet with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, pledging to announce the location of that meeting shortly

and offering the first details about a ceasefire proposal. Trump said that there would be a swapping of territory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You are looking at territory that's been fought over for three and a half years with. You know, a lot of Russians

have died. A lot of Ukrainians have died. So, we're looking at that, but we're actually looking to get some back and some swapping. It's

complicated. It's actually nothing easy. It's very complicated. But we're going to get some back. We're going to get some switched. There'll be some

swapping of territories to the betterment of both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: To be clear, it's all Ukrainian sovereign territory before Russian invasions in 2014 and 2022. Trump made no mention of Ukrainian President

Volodymyr Zelenskyy's participation in such a meeting. Also, no mention of the deadline he himself set for today for the Kremlin to reach a peace deal

or face additional sanctions. In Russia state media outlet TASS says a meeting between the two leaders is expected at the end of next week.

The source tells CNN that Putin discussed a ceasefire deal with U.S. Special envoy Steve Witkoff during his visit to Moscow earlier in the week.

This deal involving Russia taking over control of all of Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the east. Russia currently occupies only parts of

those territories, all of which we should again note was taken by force of arms.

Kristen Holmes is live at the White House. And, Kristen, first, it sounds like the president believes there will be a meeting. Is that locked up and

do we know when is most likely?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Most likely is at the end of next week. I was told due to security and logistics it could slide

to the week after. But again, they are aiming for the end of next week and they do believe that it's going to happen.

And one of the things that you heard President Trump say, in addition to all of what you mentioned was that he believes that Russian President

Vladimir Putin wants peace. The reason why that's notable is that, yes, it's something he has said before but he hasn't said it in quite some time.

Actually, to the contrary, we've heard him release, express exasperation and frustration when it comes to the Russian president who he thought that

he would have better control of when he came into office. At one point he even has admitted that it was a lot harder and this whole situation's been

a lot harder than he ever envisioned it being.

In terms of that deal and this potential for Ukraine seeding territory, one thing to note is that Ukraine has said in the past that that was not

something that they would be amenable to. So, whether or not they have shifted is something we're keeping an eye on. The other part of this is

that we are told by sources that the U.S. wants some ally buy-in, some European ally buy-in on any deal before President Trump sits down with

Putin.

Now, whether or not he could actually get that, that remains to be seen, but it's something that they're hoping for here. So, right now -- and I

want to be very clear, everything could fall apart at any moment, but right now, where it stands is after a lot of negotiation, they believe there will

be a meeting. They will be -- they believe it will be at the end of next week, possibly the beginning of the week before. And they believe that they

will have some sort of deal to come to the table with.

[18:05:00]

Now, the other part of this that is unclear, President Trump is talking about a meeting with just Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has not

mentioned, at this point, a sit-down meeting with Zelenskyy or Zelenskyy and Putin. He did not talk about that today, specifically if Zelenskyy

would be there. So, that's one thing we're trying to figure out.

The other part of this is that President Trump, when talking about this yesterday, actually disputed reports that Putin would have to sit down with

Zelenskyy before President Trump sat down with Putin. That would've been reported that White -- the White House was pushing for that. He said that

that's not true. So, that kind of leaves the Zelenskyy-Ukraine portion of this, particularly if you consider the fact, again, that Ukraine has pushed

back on this idea that it would ever seed territory to Russia, in limbo and in question. So, that's really what we're trying to get to the bottom of

here, is where do they fall in this ongoing conversation?

SCIUTTO: And of course, it's crucial given that Ukraine is the aggrieved party here, right, as the one who has been the victim of the Russian

invasion. Kristin Holmes, thanks so much, at the White House.

We did just get news into CNN that President Trump has announced the meeting between himself and the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, will

take place next Friday in Alaska. Our Nick Paton Walsh is live in Kyiv. And, Nick, I wonder how Ukrainians are receiving the outlines of a meeting

that that does not involve their leader, given Ukraine, of course, is the country under attack here.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this takes us back, Jim, doesn't it, to a few months ago where it was

essentially the Americans and the Russians in the Gulf talking about the kind of peace deal that would suit Moscow ultimately without the Ukrainians

at the table. We seem to be there again.

And the bones -- one of the first permutations of what a deal might look described to me by European official and to my colleague, Kylie Atwood, as

well, seems to revolve around the idea that Ukraine would get out of the remaining parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions that it currently

retains control of. That's two towns that are nearly encircled by Russia through its summer offensive, and also two other, Sloviansk and Kramatorsk,

which are very much still in Ukrainian hands.

Look, that is going to be politically toxic to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Yes, in the past they said they don't want to give up territory

that they fought for. Obviously, things change repeatedly. And so, it's unclear quite how much buy-in they'd be able to get domestically for a

concession like that. I'm sure Zelenskyy, as Trump suggested during that lengthy press conference, will be able to put it through the Parliament and

other elements that he needs here to have that kind of thing approved if it's necessary.

Many Ukrainians want the war to come to an end. But, Jim, you have to be cognizant of how many times we've been down this road before where we see

Russia get concessions or come up with a deal that it likes, regroup, and invade again. And so, that isn't necessarily in the mind of many Ukrainians

here an end to the conflict.

Is Ukraine going to be involved in later discussions or simply have a deal that it may be pressured into presented to it? That's the ultimate question

here for the days ahead. The meeting occurring on American territory in Alaska, very close to Russia, clearly a moved to expedite matters here as

well, but essentially, to some degree, a visit to the United States for a bilateral meeting for the Kremlin. So, almost another win for Moscow out of

this too.

Look, they seem to be managing to turn the narrative here quite fast, from a deadline today in which secondary sanctions was supposed to really damage

Russia's ability to raise money from India and China by selling its oil and gas to pay for this war. Trump suggested that Indian pressure may have been

somehow involved in getting them to where they were. We know that Putin spoke to China's Xi Jinping, and one of the readouts was a suggestion that

China was pleased U.S.-Russian relations are improving.

So, maybe those sanctions have actually had some kind of external pressure on Russia. But you have to also be cognizant of the fact that right now

their forces are moving forward, taking strategic gains on the eastern frontline. A few weeks might be enough, frankly, for a lot of the places

that currently under discussion to already be in Russian military hands.

And so, clearly, Russia buying time here, getting some time. Yes. Friday is pretty soon. Alaska is definitely possibly a win in Putin's eyes as well,

being invited to the United States, more international rehabilitation there after over three years and essentially in political exile.

So, look, a lot moving exceptionally quickly here. What is not happening at this point is a clear role for Ukraine in defining the piece that it will

eventually be asked to sign upon or any sense really of where the trust levels are, whether people actually expect the Kremlin to adhere to a

permanent ceasefire, if indeed we see one.

[18:10:00]

Remember they were asked to sign onto that back in May, threatened with sanctions. The sanctions never came. The ceasefire never came. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And Russia has never abided by previous agreements to stop the fighting there as well, as you well know. Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv,

thanks so much.

Now, to growing outrage against Israel's handling of Gaza. The nation's government announcing plans to reoccupy Gaza under the plan Israel would

take control of Gaza's City. The deadline for civilians to evacuate Gaza City, an Israeli source says October 7th. Of course, the two-year

anniversary of Hamas' attack on Israel.

Many Israeli hostage families are criticizing the plan, urging Israeli leaders to reach a ceasefire and hostage exchange deal with Hamas.

Netanyahu's plan drawing condemnation as well from the U.N. and China, Canada, France, the U.K., among others. Matthew Chance has this report from

Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Gaza City in the hours after Israel's controversial decision to escalate

its war.

It's a fierce airstrike, the voice says.

People scatter and panic. With a newly approved Israeli plan to occupy Gaza City and destroy Hamas there, many desperate Palestinians already on the

brink, are bracing for worse to come.

We're going from bad to worse, says this man. We're all praying for a ceasefire and that this Israeli decision to invade won't ever be

implemented.

But from the air, you can see how brutally determined Israel has been so far on this aid flight. We flew over multiple damaged landmarks in Gaza

City, including the Yarmouk Sports Stadium, now a shelter visited by a CNN freelancer for thousands have displaced Palestinians.

Under the first phase of Israel's plan, they'd be displaced again, along with up to a million others to areas where Israel says it would provide

humanitarian assistance.

But many Israelis themselves exhausted by a costly war are also highly skeptical of their government's occupation plan. Concerned that military

escalation in Gaza could endanger hostages still being held there will lead to more Israeli soldiers being killed.

AMI DROR, ISRAELI PROTESTER: We are here demanding the end of the war, the immediate return of the hostages and the atrocities in Gaza. This war is a

political war. The only person that benefits from this war is Benjamin Netanyahu.

CHANCE (voice-over): It is the Israeli prime minister's far-right allies pushing hardest for a stronger military hand. Without their support, his

fragile governing coalition could fall. Fueling criticism, Israel's latest plan to escalate in Gaza maybe a political, not a necessary war.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Recapping the news we had just a short time ago, President Trump has now announced that he will meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin

in Alaska next Friday. Joining me now CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel Cedric Leighton.

First your response to the news of a Trump-Putin summit on American soil. It appears that the Russian president gets two things here. One, he gets

yet another delay in Trump's promised additional sanctions on Russia that are supposed to happen today. And two, he gets a meeting with the U.S.

president on American soil, which typically, as you well know, those meetings are reserved later in negotiations when something has been

achieved. Would you call this a win for the Russian president?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST AND U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, this is interesting, Jim. I -- you know, I think you can see

it in two different ways. One of them is exactly as you described, and as Nick Paton Walsh mentioned in his reporting, that is that, you know, this

is recognition of the -- by the United States de facto recognition of Putin and Putin's stature as a leader that is worthy of world leader treatment.

[18:15:00]

The other side of that though is this, he's coming to America. And that means that, in essence, he is coming to Trump. Trump is not going to him.

He is going to Trump. So, that, you know, could be seen as a somewhat of a win or at least a way of neutralizing any feelings that the Russians have

that they may be gaining the upper hand in this. But it's certainly a very interesting development and, you know, as opposed to having it in the

Middle East, this seems to be an area where the U.S. can actually control the narrative to some extent.

SCIUTTO: Good point. He does have to travel. He has to do the travel himself. The -- although, Alaska's fairly close, but it, you know, he's got

to fly all the way from Moscow across the length of Russian territory.

All right. Let's return to the situation in Israel. The IDF chief himself has warned that this expansion of Israeli military operations in Gaza and

reoccupation of large parts of Gaza could endanger hostages, stretch the Israeli military, and worsen the humanitarian crisis. So, what exactly

positively does Israel intend to achieve here?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So, this is a really interesting question for the Israeli political leadership at this point, Jim. What they want to achieve

politically is one of the war aims, which is the ultimate destruction of Hamas.

Now, one could argue that they've already achieved, to a large extent, the destruction of Hamas but it is not the total destruction, and that's what

they're seeking to achieve by doing this. From the IDF standpoint, the Israeli Defense Force standpoint, they are looking at this and saying, we

have done what we can do from a military standpoint. We have taken out everybody from Yahya Sinwar on down, the former leader of Hamas in Gaza.

And each one of those elements that was eliminated really shows that the Israelis, from a military perspective, have done a very methodical and

brutal job of, in essence, decimating Hamas' ranks and Hamas' leadership structure. But Hamas still survives.

And that's also in spite of the fact that about well over 90 percent of the structures, the building structures in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged

beyond repair. So, basically, what we're looking at here is an attempt to - - by the Israelis to go in and exercise near total control over a portion of Gaza, Gaza City specifically. And that control, that exercise of control

in that area is meant to give them power, force the civilians out and, in essence, break the back of what remains of Hamas.

I don't think it'll be successful in that part, and I think it really risks breaking the Israeli army because of the strain that it -- the Israeli army

is already dealing with right now.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Drawing on -- continuing to draw on many thousands of reservists. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much for joining.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jim.

SCIUTTO: You are watching "The Brief." And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: An update now on the active shooter situation at Emory University, just outside it, this in Atlanta. The university says the shooter was at a

convenience store near its main campus buildings. We are showing some live pictures right now there. The continued police presence there.

Joining me now, retired NYPD Captain John Monaghan. John, good to have you on. This is all too familiar a situation. You and I have talked about

shootings like this before. What we know right now are multiple injuries. We're still awaiting details, confirmation that the shooter has been

neutralized or taken into custody. What will be the first steps that law enforcement will be taking right now as they attempt to bring the situation

under control?

JOHN MONAGHAN, RETIRED NEW YORK POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, I'm happy to see that EMS is on scene. And you know, the industry learns. It is learning. It used

to be in a hot zone while it's still active before the threat is neutralized, no one goes in except armed officers. We have work -- most

active shooter protocols have been adjusted will escort EMS into the scene while it's still hot to treat and extricate seriously injured people. I

believe they did that here if it's not fully neutralized.

You know, these protocols, they begin -- you've got one or two cops who are the initial responders. And either they get into a shootout or they come

under fire, it's up to them to communicate what's happening. Then the protocols go into play. That takes time.

I saw one picture you showed there of a radio car, it had a lot of bullet holes in it. So, this was a very, very aggressive shooter. It should be

interesting to see, you know, what the injuries are. But to get the wounded out, top one (ph).

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MONAGHAN: One A. One is to stop the shooter. But like you say, if he's done, let's get the injured out and treated. Lock down the rest of the

place. (INAUDIBLE) was he alone? Did he have a cohort? Are we truly safe here? Yes.

SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting you note that because there have been, sadly, so many shootings like this, law enforcement responses have changed.

They've evolved over time. One of which, right, is to confront as quickly as possible, but also, what you note there is to try to get the injured out

because we've had shootings before where people have bled out, right, you know, as they've waited to secure the area. So, it does show, does it not,

that law enforcement is learning, even as these shootings remain, well, just all too common in this country.

MONAGHAN: All too common. It's frightening. It really is. It is. But as you say, we are learning and evolving. A lot of communication. You know, Emory

University, it's a large university and most -- like most major universities, they don't just have a security force yet, it's a police

department. So, they're well-trained, well-equipped and resourced, I'm sure. And they probably have their own active shooter protocol.

It should be interesting though that it wasn't exactly on campus, it was just the Atlanta PD that initially responded to this, or was it the Emory

PD? It should be interesting. But I -- you know what, you don't just have protocols. If you do it right, you practice it. And you practice it with

adjoining jurisdiction. So, you're all working hand in glove for a borderline situation like this. And I'm sure they have.

SCIUTTO: John Monaghan, thanks so much for joining.

MONAGHAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the latest, just announced a few moments ago, Donald Trump says he will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin next Friday in Alaska.

The president's announcement comes after Trump said earlier in the White House that any potential peace deal would involve the swapping of territory

between Russia and Ukraine. We should note, the territory we're talking about was all Ukrainian sovereign territory before Russia's invasion in

2014 and again in 2022.

Joining me now is Halyna Yanchenko. She's a member of the Ukrainian Parliament and the head of the Investment Task Force for the defense

industry. So, good to have you back. Thanks so much for joining.

HALYNA YANCHENKO, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Hi, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, we're learning now that this meeting will take place, it'll be Trump and Putin. There is no mention at this point of Volodymyr Zelenskyy's

participation. Do you trust that President Trump will protect Ukraine's interests in this meeting?

[18:25:00]

YANCHENKO: Well, I know two things for sure. A, there is no other country than Ukraine that wants to end this war, but unfortunately, we can't do it

ourselves because Russia would not stop. And second thing that I know for sure is that Donald Trump has enough power to actually stop this war, by

stopping Putin.

Will he use this power to actually stop the war or not? This is another question. But I hope he is smart enough, he's powerful enough and we trust

in U.S. So, we really hope that Trump -- President Trump would -- will actually act in the interest of the global security and the security of

U.S. as well.

SCIUTTO: President Trump is already mentioning the swapping of territory, which would involve, it seems, Ukraine giving up some of its territory that

was taken by force, by Russia, would that be acceptable in your view? How would the Ukrainian people respond to that?

YANCHENKO: That will be definitely bad news for Ukrainian society, but it's also important to actually negotiate some other details. For example, will

Russia pay for the damages that they cost to Ukraine? Over three and a half years of full-scale invasion, and I don't even mention the 11 years of the

war, of an aggressive war, unprovoked war that Russia has started.

They have destroyed hundreds of hospitals, kindergartens, schools, railway stations, basically residential buildings, and in some cases, even cities,

like the whole cities are destroyed. People who became refugees, they don't have their homes anymore. So, they don't have cities to be back. Who will

pay for the damages? That's the big question. Will Russia pay or should it be Western countries that have actually to help Ukraine to recover? I

believe that it'll be much more fair if Russia pays, and that is why we should also negotiate about some kind of this type of negotiation and they

should be a part of the deal, in my opinion.

Once again, that will be an only option to make sure that Russia will not attack Ukraine or any other neighbors again.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

YANCHENKO: Over the past 30 years, Russia has been attacking numerously various independent countries, not only Ukraine, but they started with

Moldova in 1990, then Chechnya, then Georgia, then Ukraine. Now, while they do continue this full-scale invasion in Ukraine, they actually even talk

about some invasions in Baltic countries or some other NATO countries. It they are not stopped, and if they are not punished, they will simply

continue.

SCIUTTO: What guarantees does Ukraine need in any potential peace deal from Russia to believe that Russia will not attack again? Because I don't have

to tell you, Russia has violated multiple previous agreements, broken its own promises not to attack again. So, how to enforce any such promise?

YANCHENKO: You are absolutely right. So, we are not waiting for any guarantees from Russia, because Russia has never kept their word. They have

they have broken their promises and negotiations numerous times. That is why the source of guarantees should actually come from the countries which

can enforce these guarantees, and we are talking about U.S., first of all, but also some other European countries and Great Britain, et cetera.

What we are expecting is, A, Russia should pay so they understand the consequences of such an aggressive activities or aggressive behavior, and

they understand that violation of international legislation, violation of international borders will have some consequences. This is first thing.

Second thing, we will be sure that the war is over when we understand that Russia can't attack again. And that's why, once again, western countries

should actually enforce it and should communicate and sign some kind of agreements that if Russia attacks again, then they will also probably

participate in defeating this this aggression.

SCIUTTO: Last time we spoke, you said that you believe that if the U.S. imposed secondary sanctions on particularly those countries that import

Russian oil, that the war would be over this year. Today was supposed to be the deadline for those sanctions, and I suppose that deadline's going to

pass again. Is -- does that concern you? Is that a missed opportunity to apply pressure?

[18:30:00]

YANCHENKO: I still believe that secondary sanctions is probably the most powerful tool that President Trump has in his hand, because we should be

absolutely clear about the fact that Putin will continue the war as far as he has the main resources he needs. We are talking about human resources,

military resources, and financial resources.

He is more or less OK with human resources. He has 140 million people in Russia. They are not protesting. They're simply, you know, mess, not the

society. He's more or less OK with military resources, especially given the cooperation he has with Iran, North Korea, and let's be honest, with China.

But what he really concern -- is concerned about is financial resources.

And I will give you some simple numbers, not just, you know, like play around. Over the past year, Russia has spent $150 billion for the war they

have in Ukraine. Only India and China has purchased oil from Russia worth $115 billion.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

YANCHENKO: So, basically, we are talking about, you know, India and China basically funding this war just by purchasing oil. I'm not even talking

about gas and I'm not even talking about other countries that purchase Russian oil and gas. And that's why I believe the secondary sanctions will

be extremely useful, because they will cut Putin from the financial resources and will simply basically kill the opportunity to continue this

aggressive activity.

SCIUTTO: It's an important point. Many have made the point that those purchases finance the war. Halyna Yanchenko, thanks so much. And as always,

given your Kyiv, I wish you safety.

YANCHENKO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, the battle heats up over redistricting in the State of Texas. Democrats who have left the state missed the deadline to return.

We're going to speak to one lawmaker just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

SCIUTTO: In Texas, the House has adjourned without a quorum after the deadline for Democrats to return of the state capitol passed earlier in the

day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There being 95 members presence, a quorum is not present.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Dozens of Democratic lawmakers left the state this week in order to block Republican efforts to redraw the congressional map, giving them

five more seats. Hugely unusual to do so in the middle of a decade. At least 12 Democrats must be present to meet quorum requirements. Five were

there today. The State House speaker suspended direct deposit paychecks for absentee Democratic lawmakers in attempt to pressure them to return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUSTIN BURROWS, TEXAS STATE HOUSE SPEAKER: Any member absent for the purpose of breaking quorum will no longer have their paycheck or per diem

deposited electronically. While the Constitution forbids us from withholding pay, it does not dictate how we issue the pay. Those checks

must now be picked up in person on capital grounds effective immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us now live from Chicago, Illinois, one of those Texas State House Democrats who's left the state, James Talarico. Thanks so much

for taking the time.

STATE REP. JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, you need 12 to stay away to avoid quorum. Five were present today. Are you confident that Democrats will remain together on this and

prevent the House from reaching quorum to have this vote?

TALARICO: I am. My colleagues and I have committed to staying out of the capitol for the rest of this special session, which lasts another week.

Because this rigged map is an attempt to steal the upcoming midterm elections, it's an attempt to rob Texans and Americans of their ability to

hold their politicians accountable, particularly the most powerful politician in the country, Donald Trump.

He knows he's going to lose in the upcoming election because his policies have been unpopular, like kicking millions of people off their healthcare

to fund tax breaks for billionaires. And so. he's trying to shield himself from the voters. He's trying to shield himself from accountability, and

nothing could be more un-American, and it's why my colleagues and I took this dramatic step of leaving the state, breaking quorum, and stopping this

corrupt process.

SCIUTTO: OK. So, as we just reported, they're going to try to keep you from getting paid, but the -- we're also now hearing that the attorney general

is going to see court rulings to declare your seats vacant. What would that mean for the fight and how would that affect your attempt to keep this vote

from happening?

TALARICO: Well, it's very consistent, because with these rigged maps, they're trying to rob people of their ability to elect the leaders of their

choice. And now, Ken Paxton and Greg Abbott are literally trying to remove the people's representatives from office. I mean, this is a page out of an

authoritarian playbook we've seen in other countries. I don't think we ever thought we would see it here in America.

Breaking quorum is protected in our state's constitution. It is a tool that the minority can use to check the abuses of the majority. And this is an

abuse of power, trying to redistrict in the middle of the decade at the direct request of the most powerful man in the country because he doesn't

want to face consequences for his actions. That is corruption, plain and simple.

And so, my colleagues and I are doing the job we were elected to do. We were elected to fight for our constituents and their voices, and those

voices are going to be silenced if these maps pass. The other thing I'll add is that we have about 150 years of history in this country of

legislators breaking quorum. We're here in Illinois, in the land of Lincoln, which is appropriate because Abraham Lincoln broke quorum as a

state senator back in 1840 by jumping out of a window at the Illinois State Capitol. So, this is nothing new. It is a tool in our toolbox and we're

going to use it to fight for the people of Texas.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, let's say you get to the end of the special session without reaching quorum successfully, what happens then? Because the

deadline for redrawing the maps, as I understand it, is December. Are you confident that Democrats can stay together to prevent quorum, prevent a

vote until then?

[18:40:00]

TALARICO: Well, we're taking this one special session at a time. As I mentioned, we are committed to ending this corrupt special session and

killing these maps. And if Governor Abbott does choose to call another special session, we'll evaluate our options.

And I will say by shining a national spotlight on this issue and frankly an international spotlight, we as Texas Democrats have pressured blue states

to retaliate. And Governor Newsom just announced that they would be having election in California to do just that. I hope it doesn't come to that

because I want redistricting to be done at the beginning of a decade like it's supposed to, but if one side attempts to cheat, then the other side

should respond. I hope we don't get to that point, but if we do, we will even the playing field, and that'll be because of our actions in Texas.

SCIUTTO: James Talarico, member of the Texas legislature, thanks so much for joining.

TALARICO: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the Trump administration appears to be targeting the president's perceived political enemies via the Department of Justice.

Sources say that New York Attorney General Letitia James is now the subject of a Justice Department criminal investigation. All of that and much more

coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Sources tell CNN the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into New York Attorney General Letitia James. James won a

civil fraud case against the Trump organization two years ago, successfully arguing that the firm overstated the value of its properties and its net

worth. She has also gone after the National Rifle Association for misuse of its own funds. James' attorney says, the investigation, quote, "Has to be

the most blatant and desperate example of this administration's carrying out the president's political retribution campaign." CNN has asked the

White House to comment on reports of the probe.

Joining me now, Josh Gerstein, senior legal affairs reporter at Politico. Josh, thanks so much for joining.

JOSH GERSTEIN, SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER, POLITICO: Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, you look at these two cases, the civil fraud case argued successfully that he inflated his net worth and then the case against the

NRA jury determined that the longtime CEO misspent the organization's funds. What's criminal, from the Justice Department's perspective, about

prosecuting those two cases?

[18:45:00]

GERSTEIN: Well, I mean, there's been no decision yet that anything's definitely criminal, but it sounds like they're investigating these as

several potential civil rights violations. I think the idea would be that Attorney General James here was trying to interfere in the political system

in both cases targeting the NRA because of political disagreement with the NRA and then targeting Trump because of her opposition to his presidential

candidacy or presidential term. And that they're going to -- they may try to put together a case that attempts to argue that these undertakings were

so political that they amount to violations of the rights of the NRA and Trump to participate in the political system.

SCIUTTO: I mean, there's some fairly blatant irony there, is there not, in that the Trump administration claimed for years, right, that Democrats were

weaponizing the Justice Department for political reasons against political opponents. And here you have, and by the way, this is one of many cases

where you have potential investigations of Democratic lawmakers, other opponents of the administration or even those who just investigate the

administration regardless of what their party affiliations were. Does the administration have any answer for at least the appearance of this being

political retribution?

GERSTEIN: Well, they're not commenting on that on the record, but there's some other things that make it even more suspicious, Jim. I mean, one thing

is these investigations are being handled by U.S. attorney up in Northern New York, in Albany, who is someone, like a few other U.S. attorneys around

the country, who was appointed on an interim basis for a few months, could not get confirmation from the Senate and the agreement of the senators in

that state to continue to serve as a prosecutor and then was appointed in an end run, and a very unusual end run by the Trump administration to stay

on in his post. So, he is very much someone who has been subject to, you know, veto or control by the White House of whether he's going to continue

on in his position.

And this also comes out on the same day that we learned that an official in Washington, who also used to be a U.S. attorney in Washington, has

apparently launched some kind of investigation into James personally over her conduct related to obtaining a mortgage in the Washington area. So,

it's really a trio, a trifecta of efforts that the Justice Department is mounting towards Letitia James, who the president has made quite clear he

regards as a political enemy.

SCIUTTO: Is there any successful precedent for the DOJ going after a state attorney general?

GERSTEIN: I mean, I'm sure there have been cases where they've gone after someone for alleged corruption, but I'm not really aware, you know, in

terms of a quid pro quo or taking bribes, something along those lines. You hear about those kinds of cases sometimes involving prosecutors or judges.

I've never heard of a case exactly like this one, you know, that's conspiracy against civil rights.

I mean, there's another layer of irony here, which is this is the kind of charge that was brought by the Justice Department against President Trump

himself in connection with his response to the 2020 presidential election results and his loss there, that he conspired to undermine the choice of

the American people in that election. I guess people can decide from themselves whether they think these situations are really comparable, but

that is sort of the dig, if you will, in legal -- in the legal approach here that the Trump administration is taking at James simply by, you know,

having word come out about these investigations.

SCIUTTO: Yes, yes. Claiming that any investigation was political because, well, some of them happened during election year. Josh Gerstein, Politico,

thanks so much for joining.

GERSTEIN: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a look back at the extraordinary life of the former NASA astronaut Jim Lovell. The commander of the ill faded Apollo 13 mission

to the moon and a man who very much embodied courage.

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[18:50:00]

SCIUTTO: We do have an update now on the shooting at Emory University. Atlanta Police are reporting that the shooter is dead. We should also note

one law enforcement officer has been injured. The shooting took place at a convenience store near Emory University's main campus buildings. This in

Atlanta. We'll continue to monitor that for any developments.

Well, the legendary astronaut who survived one of the most harrowing missions in space flight history has now passed away. NASA says that Apollo

13 Commander Jim Lovell passed away on Thursday at the age of 97.

Back in 1970, Lovell and two other astronauts were hoping to carry out the third U.S. moon landing, but an oxygen tank exploded on their spacecraft

two days into the mission. Here's how Hollywood portrayed that moment decades later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Houston. Say again, please.

TOM HANKS, ACTOR: Houston, we have a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Actor Tom Hanks played Lovell in the film "Apollo 13." The crew forced to abort that mission. Lovell's steady hand helped bring them safely

back to Earth. NASA posted this on social media, Lovell's life and work inspired millions. His courage under pressure helped forge our path to the

moon and beyond. A journey that continues to this day.

Joining me now is Keith Cowing. He is the editor at NASAWatch.com. Keith, good to have you back on. As I understand it, Houston, we have a problem,

was actually a bit of the change -- a change in the wording of what he said from space in that moment. But regardless, the leadership in a moment of

crisis tens of thousands of miles away from Earth, really, there's nothing that compares to it in NASA history is there?

KEITH COWING, EDTIRO, NASAWATCH.COM: Now, he -- you know, you hear the phrase, the right stuff, and I've met a lot of astronauts. This is the

coolest cat of the right stuff. The nicest man you ever wanted meet. Never said no when NASA would call him up to do something. Just, you know, I

can't think of another superlative that I could use. I mean, he was just a wonderful person up till the end.

SCIUTTO: You know, there's another famous line from Gene Kranz, who was the flight director at the time, he said, I have never lost an American in

space. Sure as hell aren't going to lose one now. This crew is coming home. You got to believe it.

I just wonder, how important was it for NASA to make good on that promise in the moment? It was a team effort, right? You know, certainly, the

leadership of Jim Lovell, but you had all those folks down on the ground who were figuring out ways to help get them home and they, against the

odds, succeeded.

COWING: Yes. Remember the time this was, you know, I'll be 70 in October and I was one of those little boys watching all this. This was only 25

years after World War II, and I remember my parents' reaction to this was sort of, you know, you do your job, you know, you -- that's what you're

there to do. Today, I don't know. We'd be different about all of it.

But this was not really that much of a surprise that it went like this and people reacted, people were -- had gone through Apollo 1 and some of the

Russians losses. So, you know, this was -- these guys were doing something in everybody's mind in service of our country. So, we kind of lost that

these days. But back then it was real.

SCIUTTO: And I mean, we've lost it to some degree in that NASA's role is smaller than it used to be because of the growth of private space companies

such as SpaceX, which has been good in many ways. But I wonder, will NASA ever capture the attention like it did all those years ago, particularly in

a moment like this with Jim Lovell leading that crew back?

[18:55:00]

COWING: Well, again, NASA and I are almost exactly the same age. And you know, you get on, you get creaky, you think back to things as they were and

all that. But that said, I think NASA's -- and probably this was in the movie too, NASA's finest days are ahead. I think the agency could become --

or renew its leadership. And it -- again, a lot of people say, let's make NASA great again.

NASA has two spacecraft in interstellar space. They -- we've gone to every planet. I mean, it's like, we're doing this. It's just how do you get the

mojo back? And I don't know if that's happening now. All these people being laid off. But I don't think the agency is beyond that ability. You just got

to get the right mix of all that together.

SCIUTTO: And of course, there are plans in the works to put men and women, perhaps back on the moon.

COWING: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Keith Cowing, thanks so much for joining.

COWING: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Have a great weekend. I'll be

right back with "OutFront" next. please do stay with CNN.

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