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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Signs Order Renaming Pentagon To Department Of War; 22,000 Jobs Added In August; Hundreds Taken Into ICE Custody After Hyundai Raid; Hamas Releases New Propaganda Video; Trump's Two-Week Deadline For Putin Runs Out; Putin Says Western Troops Legitimate Targets If In Ukraine; U.S. Sending 10 F-35 Fighter Jets To Puerto Rico. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 05, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, U.S. jobs growth stalls in August. The latest numbers show jobs disappeared in June for the first time since the pandemic.
Hundreds of South Korean workers at a U.S. Hyundai plant are taken into custody by immigration officers. And the Savannah Bananas bring trick
plays, flaming bats, stilts, and much more to the baseball diamond.
First, President Trump signed an executive order a short time ago to rebrand the Pentagon, the Department of Defense, as the Department of War.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think it's a much more appropriate name, especially in light of where the world is right now. We have the strongest
military in the world. We have the greatest equipment in the world. We have the greatest manufacturers of equipment by far, there's nobody to even
compete, and you see that with this and so many other things. The Patriots are the best. Every element of the military, we make the best by far.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Trump has directed Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to move toward permanently renaming the Defense Department. You can see the Pentagon
website has already updated the name. Department name changes, however, required congressional approval in the past.
Earlier today, in other news, a disappointing jobs report. The U.S. economy added just 22,000 jobs last month far below forecast revisions show the
labor market actually lost 13,000 jobs in June. That is the first net loss on a monthly basis since 2020.
Joining me now is Larry Sabato. He's the director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. So, first, let's begin with these job
numbers, because they are consequential. It's not the first negative economic indicator we have seen. The Trump administration is blaming
everybody but itself here. Are you beginning to see fishers in Trump's support because of this, or are some of his voters blaming the Trump
administration for the potential of a slowing economy?
LARRY SABATO, CENTER FOR POLITICS DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Yes, they are, Jim. It's very interesting, and this has really occurred over the
last month and a half, if you look at the polling pattern. Essentially, some of his own supporters are saying, you promised us by now the economy
would be roaring. And in fact, jobs have either leveled off or they've declined.
And people don't follow these statistical reports, but they recognize what's happening in their life and in their family's life, and their
friend's life, their community's life. So, yes, it's -- this is cognitive dissonance. What they were told by Trump is not in fact developing.
And you're so right, what does Trump always do? He blames everybody but himself. But sooner or later, a president, a sitting president, has to
assume responsibility for the economy. And if he doesn't, it's still assigned to him by the population.
SCIUTTO: So, in the midst of this, we have a day where you have another signing ceremony at the White House. And we should be clear, as I noted it,
it's not clear that the president has a legal authority to simply change the name of the Defense Department, given the Defense Department was
created by an act of Congress back in 1949. But assuming he does or doesn't, do you see this as a deliberate distraction? I mean, is there
branding behind this that works politically for Trump?
SABATO: It is so odd, Jim, and you know, you've listened to this for a long time from Donald Trump and others. He was not going to involve us in
foreign wars. We were going to put America first and all the rest of it. And that's what his core MAGA group wants. They don't want us involved in
Ukraine or the Middle East or pretty much anywhere else. And that has caused problems with allies.
But at the same time, Trump wants to appear aggressive. And so, it is certainly true that the Department of War is more aggressive than the
Department of Defense. So, it's verbal. It is it is performance. It is imagery. I don't know how long it's going to last, and I would predict
flatly to you. In the next administration, even if it's a Republican administration, we're going to go back to Department of Defense, and I
doubt that Congress ever formally changes the name.
[18:05:00]
SCIUTTO: That's a fair point. Before we go, I just want to ask you, because it has not been clear in fact, actually it has been fairly clear that
Republicans across the board, at least sitting lawmakers, will not challenge this president. And if they do, they basically risk the end of
their political careers. Are the Epstein files different? Is this one where you see, particularly given interest among Trump's own base, that they
continue to apply pressure to the president?
SABATO: I think they will. I think the cracks have already appeared, pretty substantial cracks that have kind of broadened out. And frankly, let me add
the Robert F. Kennedy hearing as well. First time I've seen three senior Republican senators speak out against a presidential cabinet appointee, and
a very well-known one. So, you know it. It's about time and it's probably going to continue and accelerate because many of them are on the ballot a
year from now.
SCIUTTO: Midterms are coming fast. They always do. Larry Sabato, thanks so much.
SABATO: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, hundreds of workers now detained after a massive immigration rate at a sprawling Hyundai plant in the State of Georgia. Masked and armed
federal agents were seen given orders to shut down work there before apprehending 475 of them, most of them South Korean nationals. Officials
say some of them tried to flee, but were caught at a sewage pond on the site. Homeland Security Investigations says it is the largest raid in the
agency's history. Dozens of workers were also detained at a nutrition bar factory in Upstate New York on Thursday. Gustavo Valdes has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're Homeland Security, we have a search warrant for the whole site. We need construction to cease immediately.
GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nearly 500 people rounded up at this Georgia manufacturing plant Thursday in the largest single site
operation in history of Homeland Security Investigations.
STEVEN SCHRANK, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, HSI ATLANTA: 475 were illegally present in the United States or in violation of their presence in the
United States working unlawfully.
VALDES (voice-over): The majority of those detainees were Korea nationals, according to Homeland Security. DHS officials say the multi-agency raid was
a result of a month-long investigation into labor practices at the sprawling 2,900-acre Hyundai Metaplant site.
SCHRANK: This was not a immigration operation where agents went into the premises, rounded up folks, and put them on buses. This has been a multi-
month criminal investigation.
VALDES (voice-over): Hyundai says it is cooperating with law enforcement and it is committed to abiding by all labor and immigration regulations.
Several people attempted to flee during the raid, according to the Department of Justice. Some run into a nearby sewage pond and were fished
out of the water and taken into custody. DHS says there was no substantial use of force and no injuries as a result of the operation.
SCHRANK: Each individual was questioned on their status. Those that were found to be illegally present were then detained and turned over to ICE
enforcement and removal operations custody.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: So, what does it look and feel like to be a target of one of this immigration raids? The circumstances follow a pattern. Armed agents often
wearing masks and bearing no insignia and presenting no IDs approach people demanding proof of legal residency. If the target fails to do so, they're
taken away, sometimes by force.
This past weekend, someone I happen to know experienced the same. He, who he won't identify for his safety, was parked outside the house of a client
for a small business when these officers approached him from behind and demanded his documents. He says the officers claimed this was a traffic
stop, saying his van's blinkers were out, which he insists they were not. He says they did not ask for his vehicle registration or insurance card.
The officers did not identify themselves or their agency, their vehicle, despite those blinking lights you see there, was not marked either. And as
you see in the video, one of those agents pulled up a mask when he saw that he was being recorded. The officers took his license, checked it in their
vehicle before returning it and letting him go.
To this day however, he still does not know who they were or why they targeted him. He is a Latino and a legal resident of this country. We
reached out to ICE yesterday on the incident and the videos, but are still awaiting a comment or response. CNN that ICE has made between 1,000 and
2,000 arrests a day, short of a White House gold of 3,000 arrests a day.
[18:10:00]
Well, Harvard political scientist Steven Levitsky, says in an interview quote, "I cannot think of a democratic country with a reliable rule of law
where security forces mask themselves. It just doesn't happen."
A CNN analysis previously found that ICE uses different tactics to arrest immigrants in red and blue states. 59 percent of arrests in states that
voted for President Trump took place in prisons and jails. 70 percent of arrests in states that voted against him happened inside the community.
This, according to data from an ICE report. That partisan gap existed before President Trump's second term began, but it has widened since last
year.
Joining me now to discuss is former assistant director at U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, otherwise known as ICE, Scott Shuchart. Scott,
thanks so much for joining.
SCOTT SHUCHART, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, ICE: Oh, thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, first on this raid today. Is illegal immigration among South Korean workers and nationals in this country, is that a significant
phenomenon?
SHUCHART: Well, not unlawful entry. I take it the issue here is whether people were working without having a work authorization visa. You can't
come in as a tourist and then take a job. And so, from what I've seen, there's some element of that, at least being alleged. But HSI has been
pretty tightlipped about what the real charges are here.
SCIUTTO: Now, we know that there's an enormous amount of pressure on ICE to meet what even immigration officials have said at times are difficult
goals, perhaps even unrealistic daily and monthly arrest goals. Do you see an operation such as this as a way to pump up those numbers, as it were?
SHUCHART: It's such a shame that you can't assume good faith, right? You don't know whether ICE is acting in the best interest of, you know, real
law enforcement needs or whether it's in pursuit of a kind of political goal like that.
SCIUTTO: Masking. As you saw there, I have a friend who experienced this. But that he's far from alone. This is typical. Masked, no ID, no
identification of the agency, unmarked car, a refusal to identify themselves or their agency when they do these arrests. The ICE director,
Tom Homan, says this is necessary because otherwise those officers might be doxed, as it's known, their IDs exposed and they might be targeted as in
some way. But it strikes me, I've encountered law enforcement officials working in difficult environments across the country, including in the U.S.
border, and they identify themselves. So, is this necessary?
SHUCHART: Oh, it's funny. During the Biden administration when I served some affiliates of the president put up a whole website, included my
picture and a lot of personal information of people who worked in the administration claiming that we should be punished in some way for serving
our country the way that we did. So, making it personal is something that's been going on for a few years.
Look, things have changed. There's obviously got to be some kind of a tradeoff between everybody in the world having a camera or a drone or
whatever. And so, I'm not willing to say there's no circumstance in which it would be appropriate for officers to be able to have some level of
anonymity, but the political science you put up is right. This is not a sign of a healthy democracy, that it appears that the armed forces most
loyal to the president are trying to hide themselves in shame while they carry out his top priority.
SCIUTTO: That's alarming. Is that not just about hiding? Is it about intimidation in your view?
SHUCHART: I don't know, which is the chicken, and I don't know which is the egg, but that does seem to be the upshot.
SCIUTTO: Tell us where this is all going, because if the administration is having trouble meeting its own targets here because -- and this is
apparently -- well, the suspicion is one of the reasons that they're going after somewhat easier targets, right?
SHUCHART: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Is that what we're seeing, that they're not necessarily finding the hardcore criminals that they initially said that they were going after?
SHUCHART: Right. Well, that's part of the reason you see the disparity that you put up between the red and the blue states. States that allow ICE
greater access to their jails and prisons have an ability to fill sort of ICE's pipeline with people coming out of the criminal justice system.
States that are more anxious about allowing ICE that kind of access, if ICE has the capacity to do some arrests, they're going to go out and do it in
the community.
SCIUTTO: Your -- before your role in the Biden administration as political appointee for ICE, you have a background in civil rights law.
SHUCHART: Yes.
SCIUTTO: What happens to these folks after they're picked up? And do -- should they feel confident that they have due process, because, as you
know, there've been quite prominent cases that is -- that have raised questions about whether they have any due process after they're taken and
even before some are sent out of the country?
SHUCHART: Yes. Congress has created a completely impossible immigration system. This started in 1996 with some Newt Gingrich led reforms. There is
no way for a government to effectively administer the immigration system that Congress has created. Democratic administrations have struggled under
it. The Bush administration struggled under it. The Trump administration has decided to hell with it.
And so, they are just reading the immigration law to say, which it does not say, that essentially everyone can be put into something called expedited
removal, where there are protections, but very few. An ability to ask for asylum, but no ability to go to court and no ability to challenge a lot of
the things that the government tries to do to effectuate a removal.
[18:15:00]
So, there will be some process, but I'm not sure there will be much, because probably the government will take the position that it can take the
fast track with almost everybody at arrest now.
SCIUTTO: If you were to draft, in simple terms, a law, and to your point, very fair under Democratic and Republican administrations, Congress just
couldn't sit down and bang out an agreement, and then they've been talking about this for years and years, what would be a couple key changes that are
necessary?
SHUCHART: Well, there needs to be a graduated set of consequences so that employers who employ workers unlawfully, but also people who are generally
law abiding, who have some kind of technical violation, that there's some ability for the system to deal with that short of the very blunt tool of
deportation or no deportation, tearing apart a family, or not tearing apart a family. There needs to be a better structure than what Congress put into
place in 2003 in the Homeland Security Act.
ICE is now completely discredited. It's hard to imagine ICE continuing beyond the Trump administration because the brand is complete poison. We
need a system that attends to an appropriate balance of fairness, of the need for lawful, you know, labor, immigration in this country, for family
unity and for all of those values and for the system to work with some level of efficiency.
SCIUTTO: If you speak to people in the Latino community, as I have, their suspicion is that they're being profiled and that -- you know, that's in
effect the probable cause. I mean, you hear this phrase driving while being Latino. And you look at the case of my friend here, his -- he says his car
did not have a blinking light. And by the way -- or bad blinker, by the way it was parked when they said it was a traffic stop. So, he suspects he was
picked up because he's driving a delivery van, as many Latino workers do in this country, and that was all they used.
You worked in policy in ICE. Is that -- based on what you can see here, how ICE is basically operating today in many communities?
SHUCHART: I would like to think that until January 20th it was not, but Tom Homan basically said as much, and a judge in Los Angeles found that that is
exactly what ICE is doing. It's not lawful to be to behave that way.
SCIUTTO: Scott Shuchart, thanks so much for joining and walking us through all.
SHUCHART: It's a pleasure. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Appreciate it. Still ahead, another month, another weak U.S. jobs report. It seems that President Trump's firing of the messenger the last
time numbers came out didn't change the message or the facts. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Hamas has released a new propaganda video showing two Israeli hostages it is holding. CNN has geolocated the footage to Gaza City. It is
said to have been filmed about a week ago with the apparent name of swaying Israeli public opinion as the IDF ramps up its assault on the city. At the
family's request, we are not showing the full hostage video.
It was released on the 700th day of this war. A time marked by protests in Israel with continuing and growing calls there for a ceasefire and hostage
release deal. Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Hamas has released a new video showing an Israeli hostage expressing his fear that he will be killed as
the Israeli military launches a new offensive into Gaza City.
In this video, we can see Guy Gilboa-Dalal, an Israeli hostage who is kidnapped from the Nova Music Festival 700 days ago. He is in a car above
ground in Gaza City driving to several locations which we have geolocated and confirmed that this is indeed Gaza City.
In the video, he says that the idea of the Israeli military carrying out an assault on Gaza City is giving him nightmares, and he says it means that we
will die here. He also says that there are eight other hostages also being held by Hamas in Gaza City.
Now, CNN cannot independently verify whether that number of hostages being held in Gaza City is actually accurate. And it's also important to note
that this video, by virtue of it being a hostage video, means that Guy Dalal is speaking under duress here.
But what he is expressing here is exactly the same fears that we have heard from so many of the families of Israeli hostages still being held in Gaza.
There are 48 still remaining, 20 of whom are believed to be still alive. And over the course of the last couple of weeks, we have seen hundreds of
thousands of Israelis taking to the streets, expressing their opposition to this new Gaza City offensive because they fear, like so many others, that
it will endanger the lives of the hostages. And that's actually something that the Israeli military chief of staff has also told the government that
this offensive could put their lives at risk.
We also see another hostage in this video. His name is Alon Ohel. And you see the two of them actually embracing at one point. The Israeli military
offensive to take Gaza City is already in its initial stages. We have been watching as Israel has been intensifying its bombardment and artillery
shelling of Gaza City. Hundreds of people have been killed in Gaza City over the course of the last week. Overnight, more than a dozen people were
killed in overnight strikes, including at least seven children, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.
We saw so many videos of the bodies of small children being taken out on stretchers, some of them dead, some of them injured and burns, many severe
burn injuries were witnessed here. One Gaza civil defense firefighter said that he saw a mother crawling on the floor, burning her hands as she was
searching for her children in the rubble.
We also saw that the Israeli military targeted a high rise building in Gaza City, dropping several munitions on that building and sending it into an
enormous plume of smoke as the Israeli military said that Hamas was using that building in order to direct attacks against Israeli troops. That's
something that Hamas has denied.
But there's no question that the Israeli military offensive is moving forward here as the Israeli defense minister, Israel Katz, says, the gates
of hell are now being opened on Gaza City.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Russian President Vladimir Putin is out with a new warning to countries willing to send peacekeeping troops to Ukraine. He told the
Russian Economic Forum that he opposes any deployment of western troops in Ukraine, calling them legitimate targets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Regarding possible military contingent in Ukraine, this is one of the root causes trying to
involve Ukraine and NATO. So, if any troops appear there, especially during the ongoing hostilities, we assume there'll be legitimate targets for
defeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Targets for defeat. Two weeks ago, President Trump gave his Russian counterpart yet one more two-week deadline to advance peace talks
with Ukraine. That deadline, like so many Trump deadlines before it, has now come and gone. There is no indication this White House is ready to
impose new costs on Russia.
Joining me now is Max Bergmann. He's the director of the Europe, Russias and Eurasia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Max, good to have you. First question --
MAX BERGMANN, EUROPE, RUSSIA AND EURASIA PROGRAM DIRECTOR, CSIS: Great to be with you.
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: -- as Putin calls foreign troops in Ukraine targets to defeat, I mean, is he threatening to attack NATO troops?
BERGMANN: I think that's exactly what it sounds like. And I think this sort of notion of Europeans sending forces into Ukraine to reassure the
Ukrainians and to monitor a ceasefire was simply never going to be accepted by Russia and Vladimir Putin simply just confirmed that.
Now, I think part of what Europe is trying to do is send a signal to Donald Trump that they have skin in the game and are willing to back the
Ukrainians. But I think what we've just witnessed from Putin is that we're a long way away from there being any sort of ceasefire or any sort of peace
agreement, and that he would see any Europeans that are on the ground, any European forces as, essentially NATO in Ukraine, and for him, that would
mean he would have lost the war because he is trying to stop Ukraine from really not just joining NATO, but essentially joining Europe and
experiencing a European future. So, it's not a huge surprise that he said this, but I think it is rather clarifying.
SCIUTTO: Isn't it yet one more sign that Russia and Ukraine, frankly, are nowhere close to an agreement, right? Because Ukraine needs, wants security
guarantees for any peace agreement and they just don't trust Russia. So, they'll want some sort of European participation there, and if Putin is
saying he can't live with that, where do you see the outlines of a workable deal at this point?
BERGMANN: No, I don't see a workable outline. It reminds me a bit like when I just picked up my kid from school, spun him around on the merry-go-round,
he was all excited. He got a little dizzy, got a little sick. And, you know, when he got off at exactly the same spot that he got on. And all --
the sort of six months of talks have basically been a distraction from what's actually happening on the frontline, which is Russia is making
gains, U.S. weapons deliveries to Ukraine are declining because the United States is not going back to Congress to ask for more money, and the
president is not prioritizing aid to Ukraine. And so, we have a situation where Vladimir Putin thinks that he's winning the war, and that if the war
goes on for another six months or a year, that the Ukrainian military might break.
So, I think where we are is this war is just continuing and a lot of the diplomatic talks that are happening are just that, they're talks and not
really resulting in any sort of meaningful concessions really by the Russian side. And so, I think we're looking at a war that's just going to
continue on.
SCIUTTO: What is the significant then of not just Putin, but also President Trump putting the blame on Europe to some degree for slowing progress
towards peace?
BERGMANN: Well, I don't really see how Europe's at fault here particularly when President Trump cut the Europeans out of any sort of peace
negotiations in the beginning part of this process. I think what he came into office believing was that Ukraine was at fault for this war, and that
if he put pressure on the Ukrainians, as he did in that terrible Oval Office meeting, that, you know, that would get Ukraine to agree to
ceasefire.
But the real aggressor in this war is Russia. They're the ones bombing Ukrainian cities constantly and engaged right now in a ground defensive
against the Ukrainians. And he has not shown really any willing to -- willingness to throw the book at Russia. He has threatened sanctions
against India or tariffs against India, but that has not resulted in India buying less Russian oil, and he is not really committed to providing
Ukraine with weapons. He's agreed to sell some weapons to the Europeans to then sell to the Ukrainians.
But what we're seeing is the United States gradually quitting on this war and pulling back, and that is leaving Ukraine, I think shorthanded. And
it's also meaning that the Europeans are really stepping up and they are stepping up to support Ukraine. But it means that Russia thinks it can win
this war. Why do you agree to peace terms when you still think you can win a -- win this war? It's sort of the opposite of what President Trump has
said that he would do, which is peace through strength. And we're basically seeing the U.S. pull out and looking very weak in this conflict.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And that's a gift certainly to Putin. Max Bergmann, thanks so much for joining.
BERGMANN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: You are watching "The Brief." Please do stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. Here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Trump has announced a major rebranding of the U.S. Defense Department. He has assigned an executive order renaming the Defense
Department as the Department of War. The president says the new name sends a quote, "message of victory." He questioned whether Congressional approval
is required, though it was an act of Congress that created the Defense Department back in 1949.
Police in Serbia have used tear gas and stun grenades on protestors at a university campus there. Thousands of people gathered to call for snap
elections and to demand the removal of President Alexander Vucic. Demonstrations have been taking place for months following the deaths of
more than a dozen people last year when the roof of a newly renovated railway station collapsed. Protestors are blaming corruption for that
disaster.
There is political turmoil in the U.K. after Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner announced her resignation over a property tax scandal. She failed to
pay about $54,000 in taxes after buying a second home earlier this year. David Lammy will replace her as part of a broader cabinet reshuffle.
We are turning now to one of our top stories. U.S. jobs growth slowed to a crawl last month, and the more you dig into the latest numbers, the worse
it looks. Only 22,000 jobs added to the U.S. economy in August. Far fewer than 76,000 expected. It's a sharp slowdown from July, which so upset
Donald Trump that he fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the office that collects and compiles and releases jobs data.
Trump claimed last month, with no evidence, that the BLS head, an appointee of the Biden administration, rigged last month's report to make him look
bad. But here are the numbers, and they've only gotten worse. Trump now says it will take a year to see what he calls real numbers from the agency.
Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick tried to discredit the BLS even before the jobs report was released today.
[18:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: If the leader is bent in -- against Donald Trump, then they're going to have, you know, such errors and
those things are bent. We've seen that in all sorts of agencies throughout this government. The people, the holdovers from the Biden administration
were just -- they're just bent against the president's success. They're rooting against America and against Donald Trump, and that's got to end.
So, he can't replace somebody, you know, two weeks ago and you expect fundamental change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: They don't like the facts. Not only were August numbers bad, June numbers were revised down. It now appears the U.S. lost 13,000 jobs in
June. The first negative jobs reading since the pandemic. The previous read was a gain, as you see there, 14,000 jobs.
The U.S. unemployment rate rose to a nearly four-year high. Teenage unemployment now above 10 percent. African American unemployment at the
highest level in almost four years. The report virtually assures a Fed rate cut now later this month, but the numbers were so weak that U.S. stocks
fell on fears. the economy is slower even slowing even faster than expected.
Joining me now is Justin Wolfers, professor of Economic and Public Policy at the University of Michigan. Justin, good to have you.
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: My pleasure, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, Trump and friends, they don't like the numbers, but they don't like bad news in effect. And here we have some more bad news. Is this a
sign, a clear signal that the broader economy is slowing?
WOLFERS: There's literally no chance right now that the economy's doing anything other than slowing. Late 2024, the economy was growing at a very,
very healthy clip. We're growing at a much, much slower rate. Over the past three months, we're creating 29,000 jobs per month on average. We were
seeing jobs growth of over 200,000.
It's partly slowing because of demand. People don't feel that the vibes are right and it's partly slowing because of supply. Tariffs make it harder and
more expensive to bring things in. Huge shifts in immigration and making it hard for businesses to get the fruit picked, get the workers that they
need. And so, you've got an adverse demand shock and an adverse supply shock at the same time.
SCIUTTO: And is it right does it make sense that this is the result of the terrorist policy?
WOLFERS: Well, the timing sure looks good, doesn't it? If you were to look at a graph of this, jobs growth basically fell off a cliff as the president
uttered the words liberation day and announced his chaotic tariffs.
Look, we don't actually know, but what we do know is that jobs growth has slowed tremendously. It could be tariffs, it could be the enormous rise in
uncertainty that we've seen in recent months. It could be the lack of -- the loss of confidence in this administration by many in the small business
community. Whatever it is, it's a serious moment calling for a serious response. And simply denying the numbers or complaining that the ref was
biased against you, that was something I did when I was playing under eight soccer.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WOLFERS: But it's not a serious response equal to the moment.
SCIUTTO: So, the trouble is, if the Fed cuts rates, I imagine the trouble is that prices are still -- price growth is still relatively high. I mean,
are -- is inflation under control enough for the Fed to begin cutting again?
WOLFERS: Right. So, let's provide some context here for the viewers. As we know, after the pandemic that led to a sharp rise in prices and inflation
got as high as 9 percent. Then came what we sometimes call the immaculate disinflation, other times we call the soft landing, which is Jay Powell and
the Fed managed to get inflation down from 9 percent to 3 percent without causing a recession, and in fact, without even causing the unemployment
rate to rise.
3 percent is close to where we want to be, but it's not all the way there. That's where we are stuck. The problem is we're stuck there and all the
inflation that's coming out of the tariffs is really yet to hit. It's hit producers, the businesses have taken a hit to their bottom line. They're
going to adjust in the next few months, and that's when you are going to see prices at the store start to rise even faster.
SCIUTTO: Do you see, and folks have been worried about this for some time, the ingredients, at least at this point, for stagflation, lower growth,
higher prices?
WOLFERS: Yes. So, so stagflation is two things. Stag, stagnation, a slower economic growth. And already we've seen the unemployment rate, as you said
at the intro, at its highest level in four years, unemployment's starting to drift up. Jobs growth has really fallen off a cliff. Stagflation is
inflation. And so, already we have 3 percent inflation. That's not something to panic about, but as tariffs start to push that higher, we're
going to get two bad tastes at the same time, rising unemployment and rising inflation.
SCIUTTO: The stock market though, is still at record levels. I know it took a little bit of a hit today, but as you know, it's full of a lot of air and
based on historical measures, a whole host of, you know, price to earnings ratios, et cetera.
[18:40:00]
I mean, it's really high. And I know you're not a stock market guy, but does that indicator match up with the economic fundamentals in your view?
WOLFERS: I think one has to be careful about how one reads the stock market. I think the stock market has a lot of information for us. So, I
want to juxtapose two facts for you. Every time Trump has lent into the Trump agenda, which is every time there's been tariffs, every time he's
attacked the BLS, every time he's attacked the Fed, stocks have fallen, almost immediately as he does it. Every time he's backed off that agenda,
stocks have risen. That's the market saying, if you think you're helping us, you're not.
The second fact that's true though is that stocks have continued to rise and are pretty much at an all-time high. What's going on there? Realize the
stock market is the biggest American companies. As we've moved from sort of free market capitalism to a more crony capitalism, more -- a greater
direction from the White House, that helps big companies dare the cronies.
If Apple needs something fixed, Tim Cook goes to the White House and gets it fixed. But Apple used to be a tiny com company. It used to be two blokes
in a garage, tinkering around with big ideas. Tariffs are getting in the way of that. Those guys can't get to the White House. Realize the stock
market tells us about the top end of town, tells us nothing about the entrepreneurs tinkering in their garage.
SCIUTTO: Justin Wolfers, always good to have you on. Thanks so much.
WOLFERS: My pleasure, mate.
SCIUTTO: Still to come on "The Brief," relations between the U.S. and Venezuela deteriorating fast as both sides ramp up threats and warnings and
military deployments. We're going to have a live report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Tensions rapidly escalating between the U.S. and Venezuela as a series of events play out in the Caribbean. The U.S. now says it's ordering
10 F-35 advanced fighter jets to Puerto Rico to boost its military strength in the region. This move comes after two Venezuelan military aircraft flew
near a U.S. Navy ship on Thursday. The Pentagon calls the move, quote, "highly provocative." With President Trump warning a short while ago that
Venezuelan jets would be shot down if they put U.S. forces in a, quote, "dangerous position."
All of this triggered by a deadly U.S. military strike on this boat there allegedly linked to Venezuelan drug cartels.
[18:45:00]
Some accused the Trump administration of carrying out an attack illegal under both international and U.S. law. Joining us now from Caracas, CNN
Contributor Stefano Pozzebon, I wonder what you're hearing there from officials and members of the public, do they fear a larger military
conflict with the U.S.?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think that the main feeling here, Jim, in Caracas is still dead of surprise. We've been here for the last three
days, and most of the people we're speaking with are generally mesmerized that these change in the narrative from the White House. They, of course,
perceive the United States and the White House as a single block. We appreciate that there is a difference between maybe the tune of a Marco
Rubio compared to the one of President Trump who has been historically more isolationist.
But it's a fact that this country has frankly collaborated in the last few months with some initiatives dear to President Trump, for example, they are
accepting migrants. We were here on Wednesday when 200 migrants from Texas were taken back to their original Venezuela.
At the same time, this is a country where the government is very much used to the confrontation. And so Maduro, is the president of Venezuela, Nicolas
Maduro is responding to the rhetoric and those actions from the White House with a similar tune. They have called for militaries for military drills of
the Bolivarian militia. This is a civilian corpse associated with the Venezuelan army who are tasked with the defense of the Fatherland in case
of an attack.
I was able, just a couple of hours ago, to ask one of these militia men what would happen if indeed the United States took an even more decisive
action against Venezuela. Here's the answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEANT CARLOS SANCHEZ, BOLIVIAN MILITIA OF VENEZUELA (through translator): Not just one Vietnam, but 100 Vietnams in every neighborhood,
in every community. Not only here in Venezuela, but the whole region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: So, you can see that there is this rhetoric. And frankly, I think we've even moved past the point of rhetoric and inflammatory discourse. We
have seen here a very dramatic decisive action from the United States. A speedboat has been taken out, killing at least 11 Venezuelan citizens,
raising questions about the legality of that strike. And yet, distinctions are yet to percolate where we are here in Caracas with most people too
preoccupied to carry on with their daily lives, day to day lives, and maybe even -- not even entertaining the hopes of a government change here in
Caracas, especially because President Trump, at the same time, did say today that the United States is not interested in a -- I quote, "regime
change" in Venezuela.
So, a little bit of surprise for many Venezuelans and these two dimensions of the crisis. A lot of drama on the international waters, but not much
action here. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Smart point. Stefano Pozzebon, thanks so much. Coming up on "The Brief," something lighter, the Savannah Bananas hitting a home run in the
world of baseball. What makes them such a big sensation? Their play-by-play broadcaster is here to share all the secrets.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Now to the Savannah Bananas, the baseball phenomenon. The exhibition team is known for a unique entertaining approach to the game,
often called the Harlem Globetrotters of baseball. You see them there. Look at this, outfielders back flipping as they catch fly balls. I couldn't do
that. This player going to the batter's box on stilts. The Bananas are quite popular on social media with more than 10 million followers on
TikTok. It's a lot more than me. My New York Mets have about 800,000 followers on TikTok for comparison.
Ticket are extremely in the high demand. The team uses a lottery system for fans to have a chance just to buy those tickets. Joining me now is Biko
Skalla. He is a play-by-play broadcaster for the Savannah Bananas. Good to have you on.
I mean, it must be fun. I mean, it must be like fun and hard, right, to be a broadcaster for this because you're not just talking baseball, stats and,
you know, runs and hits and so on, I mean, you got to like -- you're like - - I don't know it's entertainment commentary, right?
BIKO SKALLA, PLAY-BY-PLAY BROADCASTER, SAVANNAH BANANAS: Fun and hard are great words to describe my job. Yes. I don't think I could be doing
anything better right now at 28 years old in life. I'm in Petco Park in San Diego. We got a couple games this weekend in the home of the Padres. Yes,
it's a super-fast paced game. I still pride myself on making sure I nail play-by-play and tell these guys stories when I have the chances and
sprinkle in the stats that matter.
But obviously, there's also a lot of dancing and shenanigans and nonsense that arises that I have to figure out how to describe and add some color to
as well.
SCIUTTO: So, where do these guys -- I'm -- we're watching this guy doing a back flip as he catches a fly ball. He -- and then he throws it in. He
obviously knows how to play baseball, but where do they find guys who could do both, right, play baseball well but also do all these tricks?
SKALLA: It is all about baseball ability. So, athletes and guys who are tremendous baseball players, all of our players have had really good
college careers. A ton of our guys are from professional baseball. A lot of guys are from the minors. We've got former first, second, and third round
draft picks who -- it didn't pan out for them in affiliated ball. And they come here to Banana Land, you just have to have an open mind, some dancing
ability is helpful, but you do not need it to get in the door. And obviously, some acrobatic skills are good too.
But like the guy who invented the back flip catch, DR Meadows, he had never done a back flip before becoming a Savannah Banana. He just realized, I'm a
super athlete. I think I could probably figure this out. And then, realized he could catch a ball while flipping as well. So, that's a plus.
SCIUTTO: So, I remember as a kid, I actually went to some Harlem Globetrotters games, and I mean, those were really performance, right,
because you had the Washington Generals that always lost and all that kind of stuff. I mean, are the games real baseball?
SKALLA: Yes, the games are legitimate competition. So, both teams really want to win. There's only four teams right now in the world of Banana Ball.
So, the teams play each other a ton, which really helps the rivalries grow, and we know how that folks will celebrate if they do earn a walk off,
because in Banana Ball, if you win an inning, you immediately -- if you're the home team, can celebrate, you've won an inning. If you score more runs
than the opponent, you earn a point, and points on the way you win Banana Ball.
And there are things, if someone gets hit by a pitch, we know how the guys will get the person to first base as long as the guy isn't injured. There's
things like that where if certain things happen in a game, we know the entertainment that will come, but you never know what's going to happen in
a ball game. Currently, the Party Animals are actually the best team in Banana Ball. They're a game and a half up on the Savannah Bananas with a
month to go before our postseason tournament.
SCIUTTO: The Party Animals, that must -- they must be fun to hang out with. OK. So, what's the craziest thing you've seen on the field?
SKALLA: Oh, my gosh. That is a tough, tough question. We've had 300 Banana Ball games. Tonight, we're going to have 301 and 302 because the Party
Animals and Tailgaters are playing in Frisco, Texas while the Bananas and Firefighters play right here in San Diego. The craziest thing from like an
athletic standpoint, DR Meadows, the back flip catch guy, he's nailed two barehanded back flip catches in his life. That's the craziest trick play,
is what we call them, that we have ever seen.
Last year in Salt Lake City, a Bananas outfielder, Reese Alexiade, hit a home run to dead center where it's 420 feet away from home plate in an
entire ski outfit with the boots and goggles on, like had a terrible swing and miss on the first pitch, then connected on a bomb the next one. That's
one of the most wide things I've ever seen.
[18:55:00]
And we've had three out of the park home runs in showdowns, which is our version of extra innings. And in showdowns, if you hit the ball out of the
park, it ends the game immediately. So, it's only happened three times in 300 games. But those are always electric moments. And actually, we just had
one last week in PNC Park in Pittsburgh.
SCIUTTO: Wow. I got to get to a game. That sounds like fun. Biko Skalla, thanks so much for joining.
SKALLA: Thank you for having me, Jim. It's my pleasure.
SCIUTTO: So, in today's Good Brief, proof that age is just a number. 102- year-old has become the oldest person to climb to the top of Mount Fuji, breaking a record. He set himself. Kokichi Akuzawa was a youthful 96-year-
old when he last got to the summit of Japan's tallest mountain. Six years on, he's overcome heart issues, shingles and stitches to make history a
second time. Akuzawa says he almost gave up halfway to the top, but managed to keep going with the support of his loved ones, including his 70-year-old
daughter who climbed up with him. Good for them.
Thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Have a good weekend and do stay with CNN.
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[19:00:00]
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