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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: France Joins Other Countries Recognizing Palestinian State; Jimmy Kimmel's Late-Night Talk Show Will Soon be Back on the Air; Trump Urges Pregnant Women to Avoid Tylenol; U.N. to Hold Climate Change Conference in November; Russia's NATO Airspace Violations. Aired 6- 7p ET

Aired September 22, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto here at the United Nations in New

York. And you're watching "The Brief."

Just ahead this hour, France says at the U.N. that it will recognize a Palestinian State, joining a wave of countries seeking an end to the war in

Gaza. I'll speak to the Latvian foreign minister about how her country is dealing with the rising threat to Europe posed by Russia. And Disney says

Jimmy Kimmel will return to late-night television Tuesday night.

We do begin with a notable international shift here at the United Nations as more countries recognize a Palestinian State, many of them close allies

of the U.S. Just moments ago, Belgium and Malta became the latest to do so. This comes after France's announcement earlier today. French President

Emmanuel Macron says that Palestinian Statehood is the only solution for peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): This falls to us this historic responsibility. Everything within our power to preserve the

very possibility of a two-state solution. Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Here is a look now at all of the countries around the world that have already recognized a Palestinian State. You can see it takes up much

of the map there. Each announcement isolating Israel even more. And one can say the United States as well, given so many of its own allies have joined

in the call for a state.

While the diplomatic moves behind me continue, the hardship and misery for those on the ground in Gaza is becoming just impossible to comprehend.

Today, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said, quote, "The possibility of self-determination for the Palestinian people is being erased in absolute

violation of the U.N. Charter." Erased, he said.

So, what does that look like? I want to show you some images supplied to CNN of Sheikh Ijlin. That is a coastal neighborhood in the southern end of

Gaza City. Before the war, this area was home to thousands of residents, as well to grape orchards, coffee shops and restaurants dot the coastline.

On October 21st, the response came to the October 7th terror attacks. Craters from explosions dot the landscape, fields, homes, even on the

beach. In April 2024, Israel's ground invasion had reached the neighborhood.

Planet Labs says there were controlled explosions and that some of those orchards were bulldozed. By February 20, 2025, after the ceasefire was

declared, Palestinians returned to northern Gaza. They established tent camps inside the ruins. Then in June, the remaining orchards were cut down

as supplies for heating dwindled. Now, to the situation as of just a week ago.

After the plan to invade Gaza City was approved, people began relocating to the coast. There was a line of vehicles as tens of thousands of people

tried to move to safety. A previous CNN analysis revealed the IDF destroyed or damaged more than 1,800 buildings in and around Gaza City between August

9th and September 5th. Then and now, from June 2023 to today, the landscape of Gaza changed for forever.

Joining me now is Robert Malley. He's a former Middle East advisor to Bill Clinton, a former president of the International Crisis Group, and former

U.S. Special Envoy to Iran. He's also co-author of "Tomorrow is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel-Palestine." Robert, thanks

so much for taking the time. We appreciate it.

ROBERT MALLEY, FORMER MIDDLE EAST ADVISER TO BILL CLINTON AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Thanks for having me.

[18:05:00]

SCIUTTO: I want to ask your reaction to France and seeing so many close allies of the U.S., Canada, the U.K., Australia, in short order,

recognizing Palestinian Statehood. The Trump administration, as you know, has called this performative, symbolic. In your view, is there substantive

meaning to these statements of recognition?

MALLEY: So, Jim, I'd say, first of all, it is making a splash. And there's no doubt, if you're a Palestinian who has felt ignored for decades and

feels that your right to self-determination has not been recognized, there must be some sense, some modest sense of satisfaction. But making a splash

is one thing, making a difference is another. And at this point, I wish I could say that I believe that this recognition is going to change something

on the ground, is going to alleviate what you just described, the unspeakable horrors that are taking place in Gaza, and that it will, at

some point, be a step towards the creation of a two-state solution.

I just don't see it. And nothing that I've heard over the last days or weeks convinces me that they -- that the proponents of this recognition

have a plan for how to get from here to there, when two-state solution has been on the table, as we described in the boOK. for decades, under far

greater and better circumstances, and it hasn't been achieved.

So, recognition in and of itself is not a negative step. It's hard to say how it's going to change the life of a single Palestinian or a single

Israeli, how it's going to change anything in Gaza, the West Bank, or lead to the two-state solution that its proponents call for.

SCIUTTO: As a practical matter, though, if Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, shows no interest in ending this war, even, it seems, over the

advice of some of his own military advisers, and President Trump is showing no desire or will, it seems, to rein Netanyahu in, what gets Israel and the

U.S. and the region closer to that first step you're describing, which is simply ending the war in Gaza?

MALLEY: You're absolutely right, and that should be the number one through ten priority. Everything else at this point should be secondary, because

it's the only -- it's what's happening today. It was, as you say, leading to the destruction of the lives of so many tens of thousands of

Palestinians.

Well, the only way it's going to stop is if Israel feels that there's a consequence to continuing, and recognizing a Palestinian State is not the

kind of consequence that's going to get Israel to stop. There are steps that can be taken to sanction Israel, to hurt it, where -- on things that

Israel cares about.

Now, one of the problems, of course, is that the country that could do the most is the United States, and as you mentioned, President Trump does not

seem to be in the mood to exert any of the leverage that he possesses in spades to get Israel to stop this war. But European countries, those that

have recognized Palestine, can do more at this point to make clear to Israel that there's a price to be paid if it continues what it's doing, and

it can't be doing that with impunity.

SCIUTTO: The Canadian prime minister, as I noticed a few minutes ago, used quite a powerful word today. He said that the -- just the possibility of

Palestinian self-determination is being erased. And as you know, there are some, even inside Israel, who accuse the Israeli leader and some in his

cabinet of having the intention of ultimately expelling the Palestinian people, not just from Gaza, but at least, if not expelling them from the

West Bank, annexing the West Bank. Do you believe that that is the intention here of some in the Israeli government to erase just the

possibility of Palestinian Statehood?

MALLEY: I mean, first, I would say this is not just a characteristic of this government, of Benjamin Netanyahu or his right-wing allies. The vast

majority, in fact, virtually every Jewish party in Israel opposes a Palestinian State. I think when they had the vote recently in the Israeli

parliament, only the Arab parties voted in favor of a Palestinian State.

So, this has -- there's a consensus, virtually wall to wall in Israel today, that there shouldn't be a Palestinian State. And that is something

that's going to be very hard to overcome, again, regardless of this wave of recognitions.

As for annexation, it may or may not happen, but let's not blind ourselves to the fact that whether there is a de jure illegal annexation or not,

what's happening on the ground every day is the incorporation of increasing quantities of land to the West Bank, into Israel, through the settlements.

Since October 7th, the amount of territory in the West Bank that has been taken over by settlers, Israeli settlers in the West Bank, is equivalent to

the size of three times the territory of Gaza. So, annexation, whether it comes up with an official stamp or not, is happening every day, which

again, points to the fact that we can call for a two-state solution. Rhetorically, on the ground, everything is moving in the opposite

direction.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And to your point, not just Israelis, but many Palestinians have given up on the idea of a two-state solution. Rob Malley, we

appreciate you taking the time.

MALLEY: Thanks for having me.

[18:10:00]

SCIUTTO: Jimmy Kimmel's late-night talk show will soon be back on the air, following his suspension. The Walt Disney Company, owner of the ABC

television network, announced just a few hours ago that Kimmel's show will return on Tuesday. ABC took the show off the air, you may remember, last

week after Kimmel made controversial remarks about the suspect in Charlie Kirk's assassination. His suspension triggered a major debate here in the

U.S. over freedom of speech as well as government control of the public airwaves. The head of the FCC all but threatened regulatory action against

ABC unless it disciplined Kimmel.

Elizabeth Wagmeister joins me now. And, Elizabeth, I wonder, because right up until the moment this news broke, there were a lot of folks who doubted

whether Kimmel would ever go back on the air, whether he would be allowed back on or want to go back on. What turned the tide here? And I wonder, did

some celebrity pressure on Disney make a difference?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: LoOK. earlier this morning, Jim, we had 400 celebrities, and I'm talking the biggest names in

Hollywood, everyone from Jennifer Aniston to Meryl Streep. They all signed an open letter that was organized by the ACLU calling for free speech and

speaking out very firmly against government interference.

Now, in that letter, there was nothing addressing Disney or ABC specifically. Again, their focus really being against the government trying

to interfere with free speech. So, of course, when you have mounting pressure like that, not just from celebrities but also from individuals in

the entertainment industry who have been protesting just down the street from here, outside of Disney's offices in Hollywood, outside of Jimmy

Kimmel Live's theater, I mean, that, of course, adds pressure.

But I have to tell you that from day one, Jim, when ABC did take off Jimmy's show off the air, I was told by my sources that this was never a

cancellation and that they were always hopeful to find a path back with Jimmy.

Now, to your point, the big question that remained was, would Jimmy Kimmel want to return after this became such a scandal that played out everywhere

from Hollywood to D.C.? But I had always heard, again, that Disney and ABC, that they loved Jimmy, they wanted to take down the temperature, they were

under real threats from the FCC and station groups pulling the show, refusing to air it, but that they were always hopeful that they could get

Jimmy back on the air.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we'll see how he addresses this issue in his comments when he's back on. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much for bringing us the

story.

Well, President Trump is now urging pregnant women to avoid the common pain reliever Tylenol, citing a link, claimed link, to autism in unborn

children. The president says the U.S. Food and Drug Administration will now notify doctors on the matter of that risk. Experts say autism is in fact

caused by multiple factors and that the science concerning Tylenol use during pregnancy is at least unsettled.

So, let's get perspective on this from someone on the front lines of U.S. health care, joining us now from Atlanta is primary care physician Dr. Saju

Matthew. Doctor, thanks so much for joining.

DR. SAJU MATTHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Yes. Nice to be here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Very simple question. Is there any scientific evidence, peer- reviewed research, that makes a hard link between the use of Tylenol during pregnancy and autism?

DR. MATTHEW: Well, you know, Jim, the simplest answer to that is absolutely not. And the reason that I say that vehemently is there was a

Swedish study that was just released last month that looked at over 2 million children and followed them over 20, 25 years. So, that's a very

long and a good study. And it did not show a direct link between Tylenol, pregnancy, and autism.

But to be fair, there was another meta-analysis that looked at over 46 studies, Jim. And even in that, it did not show a causation, meaning that

women who take Tylenol during pregnancy cause the diagnosis of autism in their unborn child.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because as he was announcing this, the president shared a lot of stories. He even called them rumors about how,

well, the Amish don't get autism and that the Cubans don't, and maybe that's because they don't have access to Tylenol. Is there any factual

basis to those kinds of stories? And as a doctor, as you heard that coming from the president's mouth, did it sound like science to you, is my

question?

[18:15:00]

DR. MATTHEW: Yes. I'm sorry, Jim. I don't know if you can hear me. But, you know, I'm not sure that we can -- I can really comment on those studies

because I don't know exactly what the president meant by that. I mean, obviously there is Tylenol in all these different communities and in Cuba,

I'm sure.

But I think the most important thing as a practicing physician is to realize the dangers of fever in pregnancy. It can cause, basically,

stillbirths, it can cause sepsis, it can cause neural defects, especially in the first trimester. But definitely, the president is 100 percent

correct when he says that we should use the lowest dose possible of Tylenol, really to treat anything, but especially in pregnancy.

SCIUTTO: There's a broader criticism of established science, as you're aware, coming from the new HHS secretary, RFK Jr., and many of those around

him, questioning the efficacy of vaccines. For years, RFK Jr. was pursuing what is now debunked science about a link between the MMR vaccine and

autism, but just broader questions about the COVID vaccine, and that is now becoming policy. There are changing recommendations for parents and

children.

I wonder, are you as a health care provider beginning to see more skepticism about the science from patients coming to you?

DR. MATTHEW: Yes, I think so. You know, if you have patients who don't necessarily have a good relationship with your doctor, they are getting

information from the social media, from TikTOK. and that can be really absolutely harmful to the patient.

So, ultimately, I think one common theme, Jim, that we've seen in the last few weeks with a lot of the CDC recommendations is talk to your doctor,

build a relationship with your family doctor where you can go in and ask them all these questions before you make individual decisions based on

social media or not based on science.

SCIUTTO: I mean, the concern, though, right, is it's not just individual families who seem to be following, you know, recommendations not

necessarily backed by science, but it's senior government officials. I just wonder if that concerns you as a health care provider that we're going to

see consequences. I mean, you're already seeing, for instance, a number of measles cases because of doubts and skepticism about the measles vaccine.

DR. MATTHEW: Yes, of course. I think it's extremely concerning, especially someone like me that's in the trenches seeing so many different patients

and also realizing as a scientist as well that we have debunked the whole myth between vaccines and numerous, numerous case control studies, the link

between vaccines and autism. And now, we're talking about pregnancy and Tylenol. I think it's really important to get solid information and let

science lead the way.

But ultimately, if you talk to OBGYN, my colleagues, nobody's really changing their recommendation when it comes to Tylenol. And remember, Jim,

this is the safest drug in pregnancy to treat fever. And, of course, we know that patients should not be treated in high doses. If you follow the

recommended dose, it's actually a pretty safe drug for treating fever in pregnancy and even with children as well.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen to your doctor. I think we can agree on that. Dr. Saju Mathew, thanks so much for joining.

DR. MATTHEW: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And just ahead, the U.N. is about to hold a key climate change conference as the world falls short once again on efforts to address global

warming. I'm going to speak to the E.U.'s commissioner for climate change next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief," live from the United Nations here in New York. Some are calling it the world's strongest storm this year. Super

Typhoon Ragasa hit the Philippines with destructive winds, torrential rain on Monday. Thousands of people evacuated. The storm is now headed towards

Hong Kong and then the southern coast of China. Ragasa strength equivalent to that of a Category 5 hurricane.

Later this fall, the U.N. will hold the COP30 conference in Brazil. The gathering, a chance for world leaders to recommit, if they're willing, to

the ongoing fight against climate change. However, scientists warn the world is falling far short of some key goals. The E.U. is about to blow

past an important deadline to set emissions targets. That despite plans to announce new climate goals here at the U.N. this week.

Joining me now is Wopke Hoekstra. He's the E.U. Commissioner for Climate Change. Thanks so much for joining.

WOPKE HOEKSTRA, E.U. COMMISSIONER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE: Thank you very much for having me, Jim. Always great to be back in New York.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. So, COP30 is going to happen, but two of the largest economies in the world and biggest polluters here in the U.S., but

also the E.U. collectively, missing their targets. And the U.S. is retreating not just from green policies, but it seems from the science

about global warming under current leadership in the Trump administration. Do these conferences, can they accomplish anything substantive without real

participation from the U.S.?

HOEKSTRA: Absolutely. But let me first just get the record straight. If you would take a look at the numbers, you would find that Europe is at

roughly 6 percent of global emissions. The U.S. is roughly double that number, 12 percent. And we are far from missing the deadline.

As a matter of fact, we're articulating here in New York what the range of our ambition is going to be towards 2035. And if you would look at the way

we're driving down emissions, and you would put it into perspective and compare that with numbers of the others, you would find that the range of

roughly 66 to 72, 73 percent that European Union is coming up with is by far among the very best at the global stage, usually outperforming the NDCs

of countries from across the globe, but potentially with the exception of Great Britain.

SCIUTTO: I don't want to disparage European efforts here. I'm just asking whether the world together can meet its goals, its commitments, without

leadership or participation from the largest economy in the world.

HOEKSTRA: Well, there you do have a point, Jim, and that is precisely why this is so tremendously difficult. Climate change doesn't discriminate. It

doesn't matter where CO2 is being pumped into the air. If we do that at large as humanity, we all suffer from it. And the typhoon you were just

showing is just the latest case in point.

And given the fact that the U.S. is clearly, you know, the most formidable geopolitical player across the globe, is the largest economy and the second

largest emitter after China, it is a major blow to international climate diplomacy that the U.S. is no longer taking part. And yet, the rest of us,

you know, don't have an alternative. We do need to make sure we continue because the problem is getting larger and larger.

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: I wonder if it's possible. Can the economics of renewable energy come to the rescue to some degree? In other words, has the price of

renewables come down sufficiently? Has the efficiency, for instance, of electricity come down sufficiently? Has the efficiency of electric vehicles

advanced sufficiently to make it such that it's just good business, right? Even for a country like the U.S., regardless of what the politics are here,

that you have to move forward if you want to compete.

HOEKSTRA: Absolutely. And if you would, for example, look at the cost curve of solar, that is absolutely spectacular. That has -- the costs have

gone down by 90, 95 percent, if you would compare that to the beginning of this century, and it is going down ever further. So, there will be over

time the cheapest or one of the cheapest solutions available, and that is fantastic news for businesses and citizens alike.

The problem is that we're late at the party. We are late with tackling climate change, so the damage has already, to a large extent, occurred and

is happening every single day. So, we are moving in the right direction, but we do actually need to walk faster to make sure we truly tackle this,

and that is why it is so hugely important that in the present day we make the most of these type of climate negotiations.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching very closely. Wopke Hoekstra, E.U. Commissioner for Climate Change, thanks so much for joining.

HOEKSTRA: Thank you very much to you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still coming up on "The Brief", the U.N. Security Council has condemned Russia at an emergency meeting for its incursions into NATO

airspace. Latvia's foreign minister will join us to share details and concerns after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto here at the United Nations in New York. And here are the international headlines we're

watching today.

French President Emmanuel Macron has announced formal recognition of a Palestinian State, saying the time has come for peace. France and Saudi

Arabia are co-hosting a summit here at the U.N. on bringing about a two- state solution. Israel's prime minister says a Palestinian State, quote, "will not happen."

The Trump administration has now linked autism in children with the use of Tylenol by pregnant mothers during pregnancy. Earlier, President Trump

announced that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration will be notifying physicians not to recommend the drug to pregnant women. Experts, however,

say autism is caused by multiple factors and that the link between Tylenol use and autism during pregnancy is far from settled.

Thousands packed an Arizona stadium on Sunday to honor the slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk. He was shot to death on September 10th

during an event at a Utah university. In a powerful moment, his widow Erica fought through tears to say she forgives his alleged killer.

Well, the U.N. Security Council had an emergency meeting today to discuss further Russian incursions into NATO's airspace, this time Estonia's, this

as -- ahead of NATO's North Atlantic Council meeting on Tuesday after Estonia requested those consultations. It comes days after Russian drones

violated both Polish and Romanian airspace. Estonia, along with fellow Baltic states, Lithuania and Latvia are strong supporters of Ukraine.

Latvia's foreign minister, Baiba Braze, condemned Russia in today's Security Council meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIBA BRAZE, LATVIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Russia's war in Ukraine and Russia's flagrant violation of Estonia's airspace once again demonstrates

Russia's complete disregard for the authority of this Council and also for the demands expressed by the International Community in numerous U.N.

General Assembly resolutions. And, Mr. President, let me say, we are not facing a Ukraine crisis. We are faced with a Russia crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Foreign Minister Braze joins me now here at the U.N. Thanks so much for taking the time.

BRAZE: Good evening.

SCIUTTO: So, we've now had drones over Poland and jets over Estonia. Is there any doubt in your mind that these were deliberate acts by Russia?

BRAZE: Certainly, they were intentional. So, there is no doubt about that. And that relates both to the drones and to the jets, especially the jets.

And, again, military analysts are giving various options what type of Russian testing that is.

But clearly, in our view, we had the Shahed drone falling on our territory last autumn. It came via Belarus into our territory. We have had Romanian

airspace violated. So, it's not a coincidence this is happening. It's because Russia is waging war in Ukraine. So, whether it's jamming of the

drones or this type of testing, Russia is signaling something to the NATO, something to the International Community.

And that is not only reckless, that is also highly responsible because it can result in an escalation. It is an escalation by Russia, but it can

result in further escalation. So, then, in accordance with escalation spiral, you know, various things can happen. So, that's why the Security

Council today heard the Estonians, heard the whole United Nations Security Council. It was very clear message to Russia, stop it, stop it.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe this is symbolic testing or functional testing? In other words, could it be preparations to attack NATO nations directly?

BRAZE: No, we don't see that there is direct military threat from Russia to NATO because that would require totally different type of forces. Russia

is weak currently. Don't forget that Russia is fighting full-scale war and hasn't been able to take more than 20 percent of Ukrainian territory since

2014.

So, despite its political objectives of subduing Ukraine, changing the whole Euro-Atlantic security architecture, weakening U.S., first of all,

U.S.'s ties with friends, with allies, despite all of that, Russia has not achieved that happening. So, NATO is the strongest ever, and Ukraine is

fighting and support for Ukraine is strong.

[18:35:00]

SCIUTTO: What should NATO's response be to these incursions then? What is the penalty to Russia?

BRAZE: I think the Polish deputy prime minister today already said that any mistakes like this will end badly for Russia. But again, as NATO, we

are very clear that we are always cool-headed. We are always analytical in that we are not the ones threatening Russia or anything else. We are the

organization for peace, for self-defense, and that is the task of NATO.

So, the reactions like the Italian F-35s that took off and intercepted Russian jets clearly signal to the Russians that they are seeing them, that

they have noticed them, and so on and so forth. So, those are the reactions that, you know, clearly show that we are not there to escalate something.

From other hand, remember, there was a situation when Russian jets were violating Turkish airspace, and they did that like 10 times, you know,

doing shortcuts, you know, near the Syrian border, and Turkey warned them and warned them until they took the plane down. I'm not saying that this

is, you know, what Poland or Estonia or somebody is going to do, because the task is to stop Russia not to do that. Because again, this type of

situations can end badly.

SCIUTTO: But are you saying that if the behavior were to continue, that that's a possibility, that NATO forces would directly engage Russian

forces?

BRAZE: Again, I don't want to speculate, but a reckless behavior, behaviors that create danger, behaviors that is directed towards escalating

the situation, cannot remain without response. So, NATO side, we have now put up a new mission called Eastern Sentry, which will be additional air

defenses, additional planes, additional various capabilities on the whole of eastern border north and southeastern border of NATO. Because again,

NATO is a self-defense organization. You don't want risking some type of situation that can create further trouble.

SCIUTTO: We are many weeks and months since the first time President Trump said that the U.S. is a couple of weeks away. He sometimes changes the

timeframe from imposing new sanctions on Russia, but they still haven't come. Is it past time now for the U.S. to impose further economic penalties

on Russia, given it has still refused the president's demand to abide by a ceasefire in Ukraine?

BRAZE: Well, U.S. has extended existing sanctions actually on Russia and has added a whole package on Iranian, but also Indian and a few other

companies and sectors. So, that's what we are doing in the E.U. We are adding the Shadow Fleet ships. We are adding the people, the companies that

avoid implementation of sanctions or that help Russia to get profits from those operations.

We have also added the whole sector with regard to the ecosystem of Shadow Fleet, which is transporting Russian oil to the third countries, because

Russia finances war from the budget. So, any income in the budget should be limited and should be cut off. Less money for Russian budget, less

capability to fight wars. Pretty directly proportional.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, I heard the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Mike Waltz, use a phrase today that I haven't heard from the Trump

administration yet, or at least from President Trump, and that is that we will defend every inch of NATO. It's a familiar phrase.

BRAZE: Absolutely. They said that last week at the U.N. Security Council emergency debate on the violations of the Polish airspace. It was Charge at

the time who said that. Today it was Michael Waltz, whose appointment we warmly welcome, and it was one of his first sessions today. So, he clearly

said that, and allies are there for each other.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe President Trump backs that?

BRAZE: Yes, absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Foreign Minister Braze, always good to talk to you.

BRAZE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Look forward to speaking again. Thanks so much for joining us.

BRAZE: OK. Thanks a lot.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

BRAZE: Until next time.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, Buenos Aires bailout. President Trump and the president of Argentina expected to meet here at the U.N. tomorrow to

discuss U.S. aid to the struggling nation. All that and more coming up.

[18:40:00]

SCIUTTO: The Trump administration is now offering emergency financial assistance to political ally, Javier Milei, the president of Argentina.

Milei famously promised to take a chainsaw to government spending in his country. Pictured there. His programs have dramatically reduced the

country's inflation rate. But his austerity measures have caused deep economic pain and have now weakened him politically ahead of legislative

elections next month.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent called Argentina a systematically important U.S. ally. And he says the U.S. is now ready to provide a, quote,

"large and forceful program of financial intervention." Presidents Trump and Milei are expected to discuss the plan here at the U.N. tomorrow. The

Argentinian stock market rallied more than 7 percent on that news, along with the Argentine peso.

Joining me now, Eric Farnsworth. He is a senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Eric, it's no secret that Trump likes

Milei. He's got economic problems and he's about to have elections. And Trump says the U.S. is going to do a bailout. I mean, that sounds unusual,

to say the least. Is that acceptable?

ERIC FARNSWORTH, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, I think it's definitely politically motivated as well as

economically motivated. You heard the treasury secretary say that Argentina is systematically important from the economic side. And what that means is

that Argentina is the largest current debtor to the IMF and is really very much dependent on the continued goodwill of the International Community.

But as you also indicated, the relationship between President Milei and President Trump is close. It's political.

President Milei has strongly supported President Trump in his activities, coming to Mar-a-Lago, coming to the inauguration, being active in the CPAC

movement. So, there's definitely a political affinity between the two leaders.

SCIUTTO: OK. So, practical question, does the U.S. have the ability to rescue Argentina's economy?

FARNSWORTH: Well, that's the 64,000 -- or actually, in this case, probably $64 billion question. Look, it's not a matter of rescue. It's a matter of

getting through this transition period.

Milei has strongly implemented some policies. He's gotten inflation down. He's opened up the economy in terms of international trade. He has reduced

spending, and the economy really has shown some positive results.

[18:45:00]

But it does have a transaction cost and transition cost, and jobs have been lost and people have to operate under austerity measures. That's absolutely

right. And so, the question is, how long are the Argentine people willing to put up with that and pay the cost of trying to get through this period

of transition? I think all this came to a head earlier this month when there was an election, a local election in Buenos Aires that the opposition

won handily, and that really indicated to many investors that the Milei project in Argentina isn't necessarily guaranteed. There's a lot more work

to be done.

So, I really think that a lot of what's going on right now between Washington and Buenos Aires is an effort from Washington to say, look,

we've got your back. We'll get you through the next elections hopefully in late October and try to get you on a more sustainable path.

SCIUTTO: So, that's a question, and perhaps it's unknowable. I mean, the basic question is, what are the best indications as to whether Milei's

economic pain is working for the economy and is setting it on the path to sustained recovery?

FARNSWORTH: Well, you're going to have a very telling indicator, and that's the October 26th elections, the legislative elections, midterms, and

the Argentine people will have a chance to vote whether they agree with the direction that the country is on or not.

This has always been the question of reform efforts in Argentina. Are they sustainable? And we've seen one after another over the years start --

aggressively start with perhaps some positive bounce, but just peter out over time as Argentine politics takes over. And I think that's really what

we're going to see. But beyond the elections, of course, the continued downward trend of inflation, the continued support of international

investors, which Argentina's economy really depends on, and their willingness to put money, not just current money at risk, but to put new

money into Argentina based on what they think the prospects of the country will be over time.

SCIUTTO: Eric Farnsworth, thanks so much for joining.

FARNSWORTH: Great to be back with you. Thanks again.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the Aurora Humanitarian Initiative announces the finalists for its $1 million prize. I'm going to speak to Aurora's co-

founder about those nominees and how they're now grappling with broad U.S. cuts to foreign aid.

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SCIUTTO: My next guest is co-founder of the Aurora Humanitarian Initiative. The initiative just announced its four finalists for its $1

million Aurora Prize, which honors humanitarians who do hard, important work for some of the world's neediest people. This despite the U.S.'s

recent cuts to foreign aid across the world.

[18:50:00]

This year's finalists include a woman who has provided care everywhere from Bosnia-Herzegovina to Gaza, a doctor running his hospital amid Sudan's

civil war, an OB-GYN treating women in war zones, and a physician providing much-needed care in South Sudan. The winner will be announced at the end of

this week's webinar.

Joining me now is the co-founder of Aurora, Noubar Afeyan. He also co- founded the biotech company, Moderna. Thanks so much for taking the time.

NOUBAR AFEYAN, CO-FOUNDER, AURORA HUMANITARIAN INITIATIVE: Thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first, you've said so often publicly that you try to focus on local humanitarians doing the work locally because they get the help needed

to the people who need it most, the quickest and most efficiently. Can you tell us how these four finalists were chosen with that in mind?

AFEYAN: Sure. This is the 10th anniversary of this prize. And every year we solicit nominations. This year, we unfortunately received 860 of them.

And I say unfortunate because we wish that there weren't so many worthy recipients of this. And through a rigorous process that involves about 80

experts around the world, we winnowed those down to 15, which was then presented to a selection committee of 10 members, which include five Nobel

Prize winners, country presidents, former presidents, and humanitarian activists who help us select down to three to four finalists and then,

ultimately, choose a laureate, which will happen in November.

SCIUTTO: Does this sort of grassroots, if that's the right word, approach, how does it work better than the old model of top down, you know, big

international institutions kind of landing, helicoptering in to deliver the aid?

AFEYAN: Well, Jim, the prize was set up 10 years ago to mark the centennial of the Armenian genocide. And at that time, there were no

organizations, maybe Red Cross at most, but many of the lives were saved by those who just stepped in, ran towards the fire, if you will, and saved the

lives of many, including my grandfather, which is why I exist today.

So, when it came to marking this, we really wanted to pay special attention to the human part of humanitarian and not the institutional part, although

that's very important. And we realized that there are people all around the world who do this work for no particular reason, and they find themselves

in a situation where they can help the lives of some hundreds, if not thousands of people, save them, improve them.

And we wanted to shine a light on them and enable their work through both financial and network relationships that can advance their work. We think

they're a very important global army for good at a time when, I would argue, in the last few years, it seems like the inhumanitarians are

winning. People who are inflicting crises, inflicting pain, they seem to be on the rise. So, we really thought we needed to increase the humanitarian

forces to counteract that.

SCIUTTO: What has been the impact of the U.S. defunding so many overseas aid programs? Have you seen that in the areas where these humanitarian

teams are working?

AFEYAN: Well, certainly the context within which they work benefited a lot from international funding. The U.S. funding cuts have impacted that

broadly. We're seeing that in every conflict region, but also many regions where there are no conflicts, where these were conflict prevention

approaches.

But at the level of the people that we are honoring through the four finalists, their work often is below the radar of what the large

organizations support. And so, in their case, their work's even more needed. For example, one of our past laureates, Dr. Tom Catena, cares for

60,000 lives alone as the only medic in an area in the Nuba Mountains in Sudan. We honored him nine years ago. In this year's selected finalists,

same types of stories where they're lone actors taking care of 40,000, 50,000 people.

So, I think while the context has changed, the heroism continues, and we hope that the context reverses in time because we need both.

SCIUTTO: Before I go, given your work with Moderna, which of course developed one of the most successful COVID vaccines, in cooperation with

the NIH in the U.S., are you concerned to watch the rise of vaccine skepticism in this country, even from some senior government officials,

right, running health programs here and reducing recommendations? Do the health -- the public health effects of that worry you?

[18:55:00]

AFEYAN: I think, Jim, that what worries me is the conflation between what is fact and what is opinion and the degree to which that can cause

confusion at a time when in fact many thousands of people a year, tens of thousands die from respiratory infections like COVID, like flu, like cancer

and many others we're seeing in measles.

So, yes, I do think that society had been on a steady march of having first grade science -- first class science drive recommendations. And there seems

to be confusion, which we really need to help counteract because people's lives are at stake.

SCIUTTO: No question. Noubar Afeyan, we appreciate the work you do and of course, the work of your finalists for the award. Thanks so much for

joining.

AFEYAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for watching today. I'm Jim Sciutto just outside the United Nations in New York for the U.N. General

Assembly this week. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

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