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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
U.S. Government Shutdown; Republicans and Democrats Blame Each Other for Shutdown; Indonesia School Collapse; Fresh U.S. Labor Market Data; E.U. Considers Using Russian Assets to Help Ukraine; Denmark Leads Historic Military Exercise; Dr. Jane Goodall Dies at Age 91; . Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 01, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour the White House says that federal worker layoffs are imminent as lawmakers leave Washington without a deal to end the government
shutdown. Rescuers in Indonesia raced to save nearly a hundred students still stuck in a collapsed school. And Jane Goodall whose work
revolutionized our understanding of primates has died at the age of 91.
We begin with the government shutdown here in the U.S. There is no deal in sight as senators are now leaving town at least until Friday. Healthcare,
airport security, national parks, all that and more at risk. The White House is threatening layoffs and soon have a listen to Vice President J.D.
Vance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: If this thing drags on for another few days or god forbid another few weeks, we are going to have to lay people
off. We're going to have to save money in some places so the essential services don't get turned off in other places. That is the reality of the
government shutdown that Chuck Schumer and Democrats have foisted upon the administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Of course, the administration was quite happy to carry out layoffs earlier this year. As you just heard though, Republicans are pointing the
finger at Democrats. Democrats pointing the finger at Republicans. Leaders of both parties taking to social media to spread the blame.
The key issue, the Affordable Care Act, better known here as Obamacare. President Trump is falsely claiming Democrats want undocumented immigrants
to receive free healthcare. In fact, the law forbids that. Democrats merely want to extend funding for certain tax subsidies that date back to the
pandemic. If they expire at the end of this year, millions of Americans could straight up lose their health insurance. ACA enrollment skyrocketed
under President Biden following the American Rescue Plan and Inflation Reduction Act.
Manu Raju joins me now from Capitol Hill. So, you got senators leaving town for the Yom Kippur holiday. I mean, it doesn't look like they're going to
come to a vote anytime soon to end this shutdown.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean, look, the earliest it would happen would be Friday to vote for a bill to
reopen the government. And then the house is actually still on a session. They did pass legislation to keep the government open for seven weeks. But
that same bill is the one that Democrats have blocked repeatedly. They blocked yesterday on the eve of the government shutdown. And they also
blunted (ph) today on a second time. And Republican leaders plan to keep putting this bill on the floor day after day, hoping enough Democrats will
come their way.
Just three Democrats so far have voted for this. They need eight in order to break a Democratic filibuster to get to a final vote. Democrats are
calling for those additional extension of those expiring Obamacare subsidies. They also want to deal with the Medicaid cuts that were included
as part of Donald Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill Act. Republicans say no negotiations at all on those issues until the government is reopened. So,
there are no talks that are happening.
Meantime, there are these threats of mass federal firings. The White House is now issuing in the aftermath of this shutdown. And I've talked to a
number of Republican senators about this in particular, seeing if there are any concerns about the White House's approach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Would be OK with federal employees being fired?
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Again, that's what happens in the private sector all the time. I don't know why public sector employees ought to be immune
from that process, but it's completely unnecessary, completely unnecessary.
SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): We've seen for some very short shutdowns and that would tend to indicate, no, we don't need firings. But if this goes on a
very long time, that does give the president that opportunity.
RAJU: What about these mass firings the White House is promising? Are you OK with that?
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Well, I'm not nuts for it, Manu.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And that last comment from Senator Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, who also indicated, Jim, that he is concerned about Republicans squandering
their political capital if there are these mass firings and there's this public outcry.
But that's really few and far between. Most members, most Republicans are siding with the president on this. And most Democrats are the ones who are
actually brushing off those threats of federal firings, Jim. In fact, they're saying this president was probably going to fire these federal
employees anyways. We have seen this happen from the beginning of the second term of the Trump administration. So, the shutdown makes no
difference.
But the question is going to be public pressure. Who is it going to build on? Is it going to build on Democrats to get them to vote for this bill
without any conditions to reopen the government, or will Democrats hold firm and demand Republicans coming their way if the pressure builds on the
GOP side? That is a question we don't have the answer to. But that also means this could drag on for some time. And the impact could be very
significant, very severe for so many Americans. Jim.
[18:05:00]
SCIUTTO: I mean, it's somewhat crocodile tears from the administration, is it not, about mass firings, given that that was the explicit goal quite
well advertised from this administration? I'm thinking the chainsaw on the stage with Elon Musk early in the term. I mean, that was what they wanted
to do.
RAJU: Yes, and that's why Democrats are so far shrugging it off. They're saying, well, this was going to happen anyways, these mass firings. We've
seen this happening since the beginning of the Trump administration, since DOGE, since Elon Musk and the like. So, we don't really -- it doesn't
really matter to us.
But we'll see what -- when people start actually feeling the impact that they're having back home and what that does to the calculation on Capitol
Hill. Because in seeing shutdowns passed, they tend to -- the pressure tends to build on one party or the other. Then we start to see negotiations
and an escape hatch. The question is, when did that escape hatch happen and which party starts to do to show some give? But on day one of the shutdown,
neither party is showing some give, indicating this is going to go on for some time, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Manu Raju on the Hill, thanks so much. Well, joining me now is Florida Republican lawmaker Mike Haridopolos, member of the U.S. House
Committee on Science, Space and Technology. Thanks so much, Congressman, for taking the time.
REP. MIKE HARIDOPOLOS (R-FL): My pleasure.
SCIUTTO: So, as you know, healthcare is one of those issues, including Medicaid and Obamacare, actually, interestingly, that a lot of Democrats
and Republicans like. I wonder, are you sure, as a Republican, you want to be on the side of deep cuts to these programs?
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, first and foremost, the number one thing we need to do is keep the government open. This is a fool's errand as far as just holding
a $1.5 trillion spending package to try to move Republicans out of our position. We're very confident in the position we have. We are happy to
talk to Democrats. But in the meantime, let's keep the government open. Why have it where federal employees could lose their job?
Let's keep people working. After all, taxpayers have already paid for these programs and services. We want to keep the government open. We voted to do
just that last week in the House of Representatives. And three Democrats joined us in the Senate last night. And hopefully, a few more will come
along so we can have this discussion about the future of healthcare in the United States.
SCIUTTO: I mean, you don't have to look back too far in political history on Capitol Hill to see when Republicans used exactly the same tactics. So,
why was it OK then, but now, it's a disservice to the American people?
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, let's be clear here. The people who are shutting down the government right now are not Republicans. We voted to keep the
government open in the House of Representatives.
SCIUTTO: I know. But were you and the minority using exactly the same tactic to get things you wanted? And in those negotiations back, for
instance, 2011, President Obama cut $38 billion in spending to get House Republicans on board. 2013, Democrats reopened the government once
Republican dropped demands to defund Obamacare. I'm just saying this is a tactic that's been used before by Republicans. I'm just curious why it was
acceptable then and not now.
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, again, this is contrary to the entire career of Chuck Schumer. As you know, for 13 times during the Biden years, he said CRs are
the right thing to do so you don't shut down the government. Suddenly, he's had a change of religion.
I'm a new member of Congress. And the way I look at things is let's solve problems. But you want to keep the government open so the people who pay
taxes get the services they deserve. And let's have a debate about health care. If the public does not like the result, then, of course, in the 2026
elections, the Democrats could be in the majority.
I'm happy to have that debate, but you can't just accept the current health care system as an acceptable status quo. Let me give you two examples. If
you make $600,000 in the State of Arizona, a family of four, you get subsidies from the government to pay for your health insurance. That's
ridiculous. If you're in Vermont and you're a single person, you make $180,000, you get subsidies. That's ridiculous.
We want to find a common way to help people who are truly in need as opposed to subsidizing health care when other people are paying $1,000 and
$2,000 a month in private sector health care and subsidizing those people who are getting these government tax breaks.
SCIUTTO: You're picking out folks at the higher end of the economic spectrum. But as I'm sure you know, the cuts both to Medicaid and the cuts
envisioned in the current plan would affect a whole broad spectrum of American earners. The -- some have estimated that they would more --
premium payments would more than double on average next year. So, that affects a whole host of folks, I'm sure, in your district as well, who are
not making $600,000 a year. Are you comfortable with those cuts across the board?
HARIDOPOLOS: Yes. Again, the idea is it's not all or nothing. That's what a negotiation is all about. We want to take off these things I just brought
up.
[18:10:00]
It's the same debate we had with Medicaid a few months ago. We said that illegal aliens, we also said the people who lied in their application or
able-bodied Americans who should be working should not get Medicaid. That's not fair because we want to help people who are disabled, who are in
nursing homes, children of low-income families. We want to help those people get Medicaid. They're in a tough spot.
We need to find balance here, and that's why we're saying to the Democrats, we have the majority. Let's work on improving the health care system
because everybody knows since Obamacare was actually passed, the costs have risen dramatically. We want to take some of those rough edges off so we can
have a more affordable system that works for all Americans, not just play this subsidy game that's clearly not working.
SCIUTTO: I spoke to a Democratic congressman just about an hour ago, and I asked him when the vice president, J.D. Vance, says, hey, pass this clean
CR now and we'll negotiate about Medicaid and Obamacare afterwards. I asked him whether he trusted, not just the vice president, but he trusted his
Republican colleagues to negotiate in good faith, and he said no. Do you think the Democrats have reason to trust that if they were to pass this
clean CR that there would be a good faith negotiation following on health care?
HARIDOPOLOS: One, again, let's go to priorities first. Let's keep the government open, and then we'll have that seven-week debate about the
future of health care in America. That's a much better system than holding hostage people who just simply want to go to work every day.
Again, I know there's a lot of distrust in Washington. All I can do as an individual member of Congress is to be a fair actor like I'm trying to do
on your show today, laying out kind of the facts so that we can make an informed decision instead of just playing politics.
But right now, there's a lot of people out of work because the Democrats are breaking the promise they made during the Biden years, which said that
government shutdowns are a bad idea.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARIDOPOLOS: I think the government shutdowns are a bad idea, and that's why I voted to keep the House open, and I hope the Democrats will increase
their number from three to seven or eight so we can keep the government open and have a discussion. And if Democrats and voters feel like we're not
being genuine with them, they have the opportunity to vote us out of office in 2026. But this is our opportunity to lead, and we're doing everything in
our power to do just that.
SCIUTTO: So, if it's bad, and I could see it, I know a lot of people who work in the government, that they're furloughed, and they won't be getting
paid to work, might it be equally bad for folks to either lose their health care or pay more or see their premiums double for health care in the coming
-- if the tax that Republicans have passed stay in place?
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, let me just take -- I think you asked two questions there. The first part of it is if you're furloughed, when we open the
government back, you get paid for your furlough.
SCIUTTO: You will get paid, yes.
HARIDOPOLOS: So, there's no loss of income. In fact, you're going to be, in essence, taking time off and not getting paid -- I'm sorry, and getting
paid. I think that all federal workers should work, knowing full well they're going to be paid once we reopen the government.
That aside, on your second point, this is a debate we need to have. Remember, one of the things that we haven't been talking about is that
these people who are getting these subsidies, 35 percent of them did not even use their health care last year. This is why a lot of people are
worried that this is just a giveaway to big health insurance companies.
Think about it, 35 percent of the people who were getting -- who said they were getting coverage, they had that insurance company being paid, yet they
did not receive any health care during the year. So, again, these are reforms I'm willing to talk about. This is why I came on the show today,
because these are the common-sense discussions that we need to have when the government is open. But when the government's not open, we can't even
have these common-sense negotiations so that people's insurance rates don't go up on January 1, just like you're talking about.
I'm glad we're having this discussion. These are the kind of things that adults need to be doing in Washington, D.C., every day.
SCIUTTO: I guess before I go, and I appreciate you coming on the show, if you were in the Democrats' shoes right now, would you trust that there
would be good-faith negotiations following passing a clean CR, based on recent track record?
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, look, I'm a proud Republican, and my speaker, Mike Johnson, has been a very honest broker with Democrats throughout the year.
I trust him completely. John Thune has a great reputation here in Washington, D.C. I think we can work this thing out.
But who is in harm's way right now? People who simply want to go to work every day, and it's creating chaos here. People who have earned Social
Security or veterans' benefits, they deserve to get the service that they earned, and that's why the government should stay open and make it a win-
win proposition. And if the deal that's cut eventually is not to the liking of the voters of America, they'll have their final say on Election Day of
November 2026.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Haridopolos, thanks so much for joining the program.
HARIDOPOLOS: Enjoyed your questions. Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: We're going to go to Indonesia now, and a race against time to rescue dozens of students, aged between 12 and 18, still trapped under the
rubble of a collapsed boys' school for two days. At least six people have died after the school in the East Java province collapsed on Monday during
afternoon prayers. Six others have been located but remain trapped and are receiving food, water and oxygen. More than 90 people are still missing, as
their families face just an agonizing wait.
[18:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLY ABDULLAH ARIF, UNCLE OF MISSING STUDENT (through translator): What I feel now is, how is my nephew faring? I've been looking for him all day,
and I can't find him until I cried. I'm sorry. I don't know how he's doing, whether he can be saved, whether he's dead or alive. I just hope that the
search and rescue team can evacuate my nephew safely, and I hope my nephew can survive the evacuation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Those poor families. Well, joining me now is Captain Dave Downey. He was the leader of the Miami-Dade Fire Search and Rescue Team in Florida.
You know rescues like these well, and we appreciate you coming on, because you know that time is a factor here. These folks have been buried now for
two days. Chances of survival at this point?
DAVE DOWNEY, FORMER TEAM LEADER, MIAMI-DADE FIRE SEARCH AND RESCUE: Well, I mean time is something that we consider, but, you know, time is not the end
all. It really depends on a lot of factors. Obviously, the stuff we're seeing out of Indonesia, there are survivable spaces. They're talking to
people that are trapped. The goal is to get into these spaces and affect the rescues.
While time is one of the things we look at, we look at the condition, you know, around the collapse. We look at the environment, the temperatures. Is
there anything getting into the environment? Water, smoke, fire, something like that.
You know, our team in Haiti rescued a two-year-old little girl eight days after the house collapsed after the earthquake. So, while we look at time,
time is not the only thing.
SCIUTTO: How difficult would conditions be in there? Because I imagine some folks who may have survived the collapse would have injuries too.
DOWNEY: Absolutely. You know, they're going to have compression injuries, we call crush syndrome, where there's no circulation below whatever's
sitting on top of them. The rescuers are trained to also treat for that. So, even though you get to them, you still got to be delicate in moving
them and treating them while they're still in the collapse.
So, they've got trained rescuers there. You know, it's promising to see that they're using the sophisticated search cameras and listening devices.
And it's a very meticulous process of getting into these void spaces and trying not to have a secondary collapse.
SCIUTTO: Well, we certainly wish them the best and appreciate you sharing your experience. Dave Downey, thanks so much.
DOWNEY: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief", a new indication of exactly where the U.S. labor market is heading, fresh data and not great data from the
payroll provider ADP. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. This is your Business Breakout. Wall Street does not seem to care too much about the U.S. government shutdown. The S&P topped
its prior all-team high set just last week. The Dow also rose to its own record set the day before.
Checking some of today's other business headlines, Walmart plans to remove synthetic dyes and other food additives from its store brands by 2027 here
in the U.S. Walmart says the change would affect about 1,000 products. This comes after other major food makers, including PepsiCo and Campbell's, made
similar announcements. This in response to the Trump administration's Make America Healthy Again initiative.
Shares of Nike jumped more than 6 percent after the company reported better-than-expected quarterly earnings. Nike posted a surprise jump in
revenue despite weakness in China and despite U.S. tariffs. Profit also beat analysts' expectations for the quarter. CEO Elliott Hill plans to
refocus the brand around core sports, such as running.
Peloton unveiled new products with a focus on, imagine this, artificial intelligence. The Plus versions of its bike, treadmill and rowing machine
have a new A.I.-assisted feature which acts like a personal trainer. Following the announcement, the stock fell more than 3 percent. Peloton
shares have lost more than 90 percent from their peak during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Well, the news today, private sector businesses cut 32,000 jobs last month in the U.S., the biggest drop since March 2023. This according to the
payroll processing giant ADP. The leisure and hospitality sector shed nearly 20,000 jobs, the largest loss among major sectors. Many economists
had expected gains after private payrolls added more than 50,000 jobs in August. The ADP data comes as the Bureau of Labor Statistics is unlikely to
release monthly jobs report this Friday because of the ongoing government shutdown.
Martha Gimbel is the executive director of Budget Lab, a nonpartisan policy research center. Thanks so much for joining, Martha.
MARTHA GIMBEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BUDGET LAB: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, how well do these ADP numbers track? Because not only did they see job cuts in September, they also revised downward the previous month, I
believe, to a loss in jobs. Is it a pretty good indicator?
GIMBEL: You know there's two things I want us to keep in mind about ADP. One is that we shouldn't overly rely on these numbers. They're not the best
predictor of the official government data. That being said, we don't know who will have access to the official government data, again, given the
shutdown. And they are signaling and are consistent with other indicators that are showing a continued slowdown in the labor market.
So, did we lose jobs last month? Not sure. But are we adding enough jobs right now for our economy to keep going at the pace it has been? Almost
certainly not.
SCIUTTO: Why? I mean, I've spoken to other economists who point to a drop in immigration. Is that one of the biggest factors?
GIMBEL: So, the change in immigration is a huge factor in what's going on here. Part of that's just mechanical, right? You have fewer people
available to take jobs and they're losing jobs. You know, it's also the fact that immigration drives economic growth in the United States. The
Congressional Budget Office has estimated that a lot of the economic growth that we've seen in recent years has been driven by the economic
contributions of immigrants.
So, if we are driving immigrants out of our labor force and are telling other people that this may not be the most welcoming working environment
for them, we're going to see slower economic growth and we're going to see slower job growth.
SCIUTTO: So, the BLS may not release its figures on Friday because of the government shutdown, but you already had kind of an assault on the BLS
figures because the Trump administration didn't like when the BLS reported numbers showing slower growth. Is that a broader problem? Is that going to
become a broader problem for people like you who need hard, reliable data if you fear that this administration won't allow hard, reliable data when
it points in the wrong direction?
GIMBEL: You know, we'll have to see where this goes. I don't want to say that the data is not trustworthy before we know that it isn't. You know,
currently, the numbers at BLS are under the supervision of a very respected career BLS employee. And so, I think at this exact moment, economists are
not concerned about the quality of the data that's coming out of BLS.
[18:25:00]
I do also want to reassure people that it would actually be relatively easy for economists to tell if the data was being messed with. And so, if, you
know, something starts happening to data quality, we will, in fact, know.
That being said, you know, we have been incredibly lucky in the United States to have some of the best statistical infrastructure out there. And
that has really helped economic governance because it means that policymakers have a really good handle on what is actually happening in the
economy. If we start undermining that, you know, we may see less than optimal economic policy moving forward.
And I emphasize that because right now the Federal Reserve is trying to make decisions about interest rates at a very pivotal time in the economy.
And depending on how long the shutdown goes on for, they may lose access to the high-quality data they need at this time.
SCIUTTO: What's your best assessment of the state of the U.S. economy? Because it certainly hasn't fallen off a cliff, as some feared, from the
ongoing trade wars. And I was speaking to an economist in Japan just yesterday -- or in Asia rather yesterday and it showed that in the Asia
region where there was real concern about dropping off a cliff, it hasn't happened. Slowed just ever so slightly. Are you surprised that the economy
hasn't been hit harder or are you looking for signs that we may be seeing lag -- maybe some sort of lag in the indicators?
GIMBEL: So, two things there. You know, when we at Budget Lab have looked at the impact of tariffs specifically, we found a slowdown, but not a
recession, right. Shaving maybe half a percentage point off of economic growth this year. The other thing is, you know, there are these policy
announcements, there's this increase in uncertainty. I think it feels very intense to people and they feel like they want to see that in the economic
data immediately. But that's simply not how economies work, right. It takes time for the impacts to flow through.
We're starting to see rising prices, including in durable goods, which are impacted by tariffs. We've seen slowing economic growth, but we still don't
know how this is going to end. We don't know if the economy will muddle through. We don't know if we'll end up in a recession, how severe that
recession will be. And that's yet another reason why we need access to really high-quality economic data at this time so we know what's going on
and policymakers can make the right decision.
SCIUTTO: Seems reasonable. Martha Gimbel, thanks so much for joining.
GIMBEL: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: E.U. leaders are considering using billions of dollars' worth of frozen Russian assets to fund loans for Ukraine. The Kremlin is calling it
theft. We're going to have the details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
The U.S. government shutdown is underway. The Senate taking a break on Thursday. And the House not set to return until next week. The White House
says some federal workers will be laid off within one to two days. Democrats and Republicans are blaming each other for the stalemate in
funding.
In Indonesia, rescue efforts continue to reach students buried under a collapsed boarding school. Scores of them have now been trapped for some
two days. Officials in East Java say time is running out to reach those still alive. At least 91 people are missing. Six have died, 100 others
injured.
As the White House and the Israeli government await a response from Hamas about the proposed Gaza peace plan, the Israeli Navy has begun to intercept
a convoy of aid ships bound for Gaza. Volunteers say the Israeli military has bordered several of the vessels. Israel says the flotilla is
approaching an active combat zone and is therefore violating a naval blockade.
The Kremlin is warning European leaders against using frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine. The E.U. is considering using those assets to fund
billions of dollars of loans to Kyiv. Russia says that's tantamount to stealing and that anyone involved will be held accountable. Of course,
Russia invaded Ukraine.
The meeting is taking place in Denmark, which has been on a high alert with a temporary ban on drones believed to be coming from Russia. This week, the
prime minister had this warning about Europe's security situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
METTE FREDERIKSEN, DANISH PRIME MINISTER: When I look at Europe today, I think we are in the most difficult and dangerous situation since the end of
the Second World War, not the Cold War anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Russia's advance into Ukraine slowed by almost half in September, this according to the monitoring group DeepState. It says Russia now
occupies some 19 percent of Ukrainian territory.
Joining me now, as you see him there, Yuriy Boyechko, founder and CEO of Hope for Ukraine, a non-profit offering food, shelter and education to the
many millions of Ukrainians affected by the war. Thanks so much, Yuriy, for joining.
YURIY BOYECHKO, CEO, HELP FOR UKRAINE: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: First, you know the need in Ukraine, not just for infrastructure rebuilding following Russia's ongoing assault, but for the many displaced
people. It's been talked about for years, taking these Russian assets frozen in Europe to help pay for the reconstruction that Russia is
responsible for. What's taken so long in your view?
BOYECHKO: So, first of all, let's make it clear, Russia is not winning this war on the ground. But unfortunately, they are winning a war of fear
mongering. And they've been very effective to use fear to control and manipulate Western leaders throughout these three plus years. This decision
that E.U. put forward right now was the right decision, but it's about three years late.
But -- and now, the Russians are trying to label this as a theft, which in fact, this is loans that's going to be given to Ukraine and Russian frozen
assets that held in European banks will be used as collateral. And if Russians are going to start paying back reparations to Ukraine, then
Ukraine will pay back these loans. So, it's straight and simple.
So -- but once again, you know, Russians trying to beat Western leaders to the clock and try to intimidate them from putting forth this plan. Because
otherwise, if there is no money, Ukraine is going to lose the war. And once we have nothing to defend with, this full-scale war will trickle out and go
into the NATO nations. That's plain and simple.
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: One could say another form of fear mongering are these increased drone flights over Europe, including over airports in Europe. So, far,
there have been a lot of statements from European leaders, including statements going so far as to say they might shoot down Russian jets if
they were to violate airspace again. But have you seen a tough enough response from Europe to these air incursions?
BOYECHKO: No. I mean, right now, European leaders and NATO countries need to close the sky over Ukraine, at least up to Kyiv, western side of
Ukraine. And this is for their own good, because in the end of the day, NATO nations not prepared to fight this new type of warfare.
Because right now, let's be honest, there's only two countries in this world who knows how to fight the drone warfare that's going on in Ukraine
right now. These two countries are Ukraine and Russia. We saw what happened in Poland when there was about 20 drones that entered the airspace and
about only four got shot. Well, right now, I think NATO have to step up their game and really learn from Ukrainians how to fight this new warfare.
Otherwise, they're not going to be prepared if the scale of attacks is going to increase, just like what we see right now in Ukraine.
I mean, we're talking about 500, 600, 800 drones a night, drones and missiles they launch on Ukraine. Imagine something like this heading to one
of the European capitals. So, this is really a moment of truth right now. And if NATO is not going to make some hard decision as far as funding and
as far as also closing the sky over Ukraine, then they're going to face consequences that they don't like.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, when you look at President Trump's comments last week, in which he said for the first time that he believes Ukraine might be able
to win back all the territory taken by Russia, do you see a substantive change from the U.S. president now, or do you believe that was just
rhetoric?
BOYECHKO: I mean, so far we've seen a lot of words, but it's time to see some actions, because every day we see rhetoric, we see -- we hear words,
but no action. Innocent people are dying in Ukraine. And you see that Putin is escalating. You see what's happened today. They attacked Chernobyl
nuclear power plant. The power plant was without electricity for extended period of time.
You see what's happening in Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant. That plant is running on emergency diesel generators for like seven days already. They
have about 10 days left worth of fuel. So, Putin is escalating this war, and he wants to turn this into a mass nuclear disaster. So, right now
there's no time for words no more, because we're already three and a half plus years behind the ball. So, it's time to act.
So, European leaders, U.S., they all have to come together and figure out the plan how they can stop, because honestly, I believe we have until like
February 2026 before this full-scale war can spill into the NATO nations. I'm talking about full-scale war, not just some provocations that we see
right now.
SCIUTTO: Your group does so much great work in terms of helping civilians in need in Ukraine. It's been three and a half years of war. So, many dead,
so many injured, many of them civilians. How are they coping?
BOYECHKO: I mean, it's very dangerous right now to do humanitarian work in Ukraine. I mean, our teams on the ground is mostly volunteers. We do a lot
of work in Kherson region. I mean, back two years ago you could drive van of aid there without much problem.
Now, we need to have the whole preparation with people who can scope out the route, who can see to make sure there's no drones. So, it's very
dangerous. So, it's a lot of pressure that's hanging over Ukraine right now, because they really don't know how long they can stand unless there is
serious support provided from NATO nations, from United States, because Putin, obviously, he's not stopping.
He doesn't want to stop. He wants to go past Ukraine and control entire Europe. That's his entire plan, and that's -- he's going to do it unless he
stops, because he has no feelings. You cannot talk him into being good. The only way he understands if -- is strength, and that's what Europe and NATO
nations need to project right now if they want to stop this madness in Ukraine.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Yuriy Boyechko of Hope for Ukraine, thanks so much for joining and for the work that you do.
BOYECHKO: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Now, to the biggest military exercise in the history of Greenland. The Danish colonial authority ramped up its Arctic defense spending by $2
billion this year shortly after President Trump expressed a renewed interest in the territory and questioned Denmark's ability to defend it.
Officials say they're bolstering defenses against Russia and China. However, Washington could be the real target. Matthew Chance was invited on
board a Danish frigate for Exercise Arctic Light.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a vast landscape, remote and virtually untamed. But Greenland has emerged as
a key Arctic battleground as Russia and China vie with NATO allies for Arctic influence.
CNN was invited here by the Danish military to observe their biggest ever combat exercise dubbed Arctic Light.
Much of Greenland, ruled by Denmark for three centuries, is a moonscape of jagged ice. A frozen desert rich in resources the size of Alaska and
California combined. Danish military officials say this unforgiving terrain is virtually unconquerable. But they're training hard to repulse any would-
be attackers.
SOREN ANDERSEN, COMMANDER, DANISH JOINT ARCTIC COMMAND (through translator): We are here to protect Greenland. And in order to protect
Greenland, we have to train. And -- because if you're not up here and conduct training, you're not able to defend Greenland. So, that's what
we're doing.
CHANCE: What are the security threats to Greenland? Who are you protecting it from?
ANDERSEN (through translator): Yes, against Russia. That is the main threat for Greenland. There's not a threat now, but there's a future threat. So,
we are looking into a threat when the war in Ukraine is over.
CHANCE (voice-over): But such a remote danger begs the question why Denmark is ramping up military spending right now to the tune of billions of
dollars and pouring its limited resources into the Arctic.
CHANCE: Well, Greenland has become a highly contested territory, seen as strategically important. And Denmark has deployed its air force, its navy
and its land assets here to show that it is in charge very much and is increasing its presence.
Now, the purpose of this exercise is to deter countries like Russia and China, we're told by Danish military officials, which are increasingly
active in the Arctic region. But the real message, the real target audience for all of this is in Washington and President Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We need Greenland for national security and even international security, and we're working with everybody involved to
try and get it.
CHANCE (voice-over): That ambition appears to have dropped off the White House agenda, at least for now.
TRUMP: One way or the other, we're going to get it.
CHANCE (voice-over): But in the icy fjords of Greenland, with naval exercises underway too, it's still seen as the most pressing diplomatic
challenge.
Although Denmark's top general, who CNN met on board a Danish frigate, was careful not to admit it in public.
CHANCE: Is the real reason for these maneuvers the remarks by President Trump about the sovereignty of Greenland? Is it intended to send a message
to Washington?
MICHAEL HYLDGAARD, DANISH CHIEF OF DEFENSE: This is a military exercise. It is to demonstrate our ability to protect Greenland, and that's the military
side of it.
CHANCE: It's not meant as a message to Washington, that Greenland can protect this -- that Denmark can protect Greenland?
HYLDGAARD: I'm not a politician. So, I have a military task.
CHANCE (voice-over): But as we flew out of Greenland, it was clear that military task carries a key Danish political goal, not just to deter Moscow
and Beijing from ever invading this vast Arctic expanse, but also to convince Washington there's no need to take Greenland as its own.
Matthew Chance, CNN, in Greenland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Still to come, massive youth-led protests turn violent in Morocco, we're going to tell you exactly what they're fighting for.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Violent anti-government protests led by Gen-Z youth erupted for a fourth straight night in Morocco.
Thousands of them filled the streets, clashing at times with security forces. They're angry about the dire state of schools and hospitals in
their country, despite billions of dollars going towards the 2030 FIFA World Cup. It follows similar unrest in countries such as Nepal and Peru,
where the youth are demanding more from their government, sometimes getting change. CNN's Hanako Montgomery reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Moroccans taking to the streets and demanding an end to corruption, better health care, and
education reforms. The nationwide youth-led protests have rocked the North African nation for several days.
This video shows a police van suddenly ramming into demonstrators in the city of Oujda. The fate of those involved remains unclear. The government
issued a statement this week saying it's open to dialogue, quote, "Within institutions and public spaces to find realistic solutions," that's
according to Reuters.
Over in Madagascar, in East Africa, another movement led by young people has swept the island nation, this time over water and power cuts. And not
even the president dissolving the government has put a stop to the unrest.
The United Nations says at least 22 people have been killed and more than 100 injured, but the government rejects those numbers. Morocco and
Madagascar are the latest in a number of youth-led uprisings in different parts of the world.
In Kathmandu, Nepali Gen-Z led tens of thousands of protesters into the streets two weeks ago, furious over government corruption. In Indonesia,
protests swelled after a 21-year-old was killed by police in August. Elsewhere, crowds took to the streets in the Philippines and France. And in
several of these protests, this skull flag has been raised.
MONTGOMERY: So, what does the flag mean? Well, it comes from Japan's best- selling manga, "One Piece."
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): In the story, the flag is the Jolly Roger of the Straw Hat pirates, who don't just hunt treasure but also fight oppressive
powers and demand freedom. For protesters, that message hits home.
EMMAS MUHAMMAD FIRDAUS, MURAL ARTIST (through translator): This is a symbol of warning for the government, so they have to look at their people. Many
Indonesians are hoisting the "One Piece" flag because they want the government to listen to them.
[18:50:00]
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): The protests around the world may have different origins, but the anger is the same. That's why young people have turned
this skull flag into a global banner of defiance and freedom.
Hanako Montgomery, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Just after the break, famed conservationist Jane Goodall has passed away. We're going to take a look at her amazing life and legacy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The conservationist Jane Goodall has died at the age of 91. Goodall was the world's leading expert on chimpanzees. She revolutionized
the study of primates by focusing on their behavior, as well as their emotional connections. Tom Foreman looks back at Goodall's extraordinary
life and work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jane Goodall's love of animals began at an early age.
DR. JANE GOODALL, CONSERVATIONIST: I was told that I was watching earthworms before I could talk.
FOREMAN (voice-over): As a child growing up in World War II London, she escaped into books about "Dr. Doolittle" and "Tarzan."
DR. GOODALL: My dream when I was 11 years old, I will grow up, go to Africa, live with animals and write books about them. And of course,
everybody laughed at me. We didn't have any money. And finally, I was the wrong sex. Girls didn't do that sort of thing.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But that didn't matter to legendary paleontologist Louis Leakey. After hiring Goodall as his assistant, he sent her to what is
now Tanzania in 1960 to study chimpanzees in the wild. With no formal scientific education, Goodall conducted her research unlike anyone else,
giving the chimps names, observing human-like behavior, even gaining acceptance into chimp society.
Her unconventional methods led to several landmark discoveries, among them that chimps use tools and ate meat just like us. Her findings forced
scientists to redefine humankind and reconsider what really separated us from our closest cousins.
DR. GOODALL: They are not just objects, not just things, that they have personalities, minds and feelings.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Goodall would earn a PhD from Cambridge University and be named a Dame of the British Empire. And through her institute, she
became a tireless advocate for animal rights and the environment. One of Goodall's proudest accomplishments, creating a youth program called Roots &
Shoots.
DR. GOODALL: To bring up generations of children around the world to be better stewards of the planet and to be more loving of each other.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Even in her later years, Goodall spent 300 days a year on the road preaching her message. But no matter where she went,
nature was never far from her mind.
[18:55:00]
DR. GOODALL: Wherever I am, I can close my eyes and imagine myself in the forest. Living with the most fascinating beings out in the forests I
dreamed of. Doing some writing, which I love. A little bit of teaching, which I enjoy. I mean, what better life could anybody have?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, and she did a lot of good. Thanks so much to her, and thanks so much to you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've
been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
