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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Israel Marks Second Anniversary of October 7th Attacks; Israel and Hamas Make "Progress" in Ceasefire Talks; Carney Talks Tariffs with Trump; Leaked Docs Show Russia Working with China in Training Troops to Invade Taiwan; IKEA Buys U.S. Logistics Firm Locus; Negotiators Hold Indirect Ceasefire Talks in Egypt; OpenAI Releases New Report. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 07, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Hello and a warm welcome to you wherever you are in the world.
I'm Richard Quest in New York. Jim Sciutto is off today and you are about to be briefed.
It is a good morning to you in Asia. Just ahead this hour, Israel has been marking the second anniversary of October the 7th. The Canadian prime
minister, Mark Carney, has been at the White House talking tariffs. And OpenAI releases a new report on how Chinese operatives may be using
ChatGPT.
It is two years since the October the 7th attacks by Hamas on Israel. 1,200 people were murdered and hundreds of people were taken hostage. There are
now positive signs in the effort to release those hostages still being held and at the same time bring a ceasefire to Gaza.
Israel and Hamas are said to have made progress after two days of ceasefire negotiations in Egypt, according to some sources. A U.S. delegation that's
been led by Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff will be joining them on Wednesday. So, will the Qatari Prime Minister all want to establish an
implementation mechanism that everyone can agree upon.
48 hostages are still being held by Hamas and its various allies and groups. The Israeli government believes of them 20 are still alive. At the
site of the Nova music festival where nearly 400 people were killed and dozens of people were abducted. Today was a day -- Tuesday was -- or Monday
was quiet contemplation. Jeremy Diamond now joins us and looks at how October the 7th and the war in Gaza have defined Israeli society in the
last two years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For two years they have been fighting for sons taken hostage for daughters killed at a
music festival and for the future of a country at a crossroads.
Two years later Hamas' October 7th attack in the war it unleashed still define this small country.
Vicky Cohen knows that all too well.
DIAMOND: Hello, Vicky. Hey.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Her son is still being held in Gaza and she is at the forefront of the Hostage Families Movement. Demonstrating in front of
the prime minister's home inside parliament and in weekly Saturday night protests.
DIAMOND: This is another Saturday night.
VICKY COHEN, MOTHER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE: Yes. But it's feel different.
DIAMOND: It feels different.
DIAMOND (voice-over): On the night we join her, the whole country is buzzing about a possible deal to free all of the hostages.
COHEN: And it's a mix of feelings. It's excitement. It's expectation. It's also fear.
DIAMOND (voice-over): This video shows the moment that changed everything. Her 19-year-old son Nimrod conscripted for mandatory military service being
pulled from an Israeli tank on the Gaza border and taken captive.
DIAMOND: So, this is the Rubik's cube that was in the tank.
COHEN: The real one that was found in the tank. He used to take it wherever he go.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Heading to another rally Cohen cannot help but feel hopeful. But she is determined to keep fighting.
COHEN: We will still fight and do everything we did before until it's settled, until it's final, until they are at home.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Cohen wasn't always at the forefront of the protest movement. But she ramped up her fight after losing faith in her government.
COHEN: So, many other families realized that we need to be more polite -- less polite and be more aggressive with the fight.
DIAMOND (voice-over): She soon realized she had real power.
COHEN: I heard from so many people who told me, I heard you are asking and you are calling for us to come, and we will come. We are coming because of
you. This is so important.
DIAMOND (voice-over): These rallies are where Vicky found her voice and where she found a community to fight alongside.
DIAMOND: Saturday nights in Israel have represented a chance for the hostage families to raise their voices week after week with the support of
so many Israelis. Vicky and her son are just about to go on stage.
[18:05:00]
DIAMOND (voice-over): Today I was filled with excitement, anticipation and great hope. But also, she tells the crowd, concern. The Israeli prime
minister was speaking while Vicky was on stage.
COHEN: Did Netanyahu say something?
DIAMOND: Yes. He said that he hopes that they can be returned during Sukkot.
COHEN: The hostages?
DIAMOND: He said the goal is to limit negotiations to a few days. He doesn't want it to be dragged out.
SIGAL MANSURI, DAUGHTERS KILLED ON OCTOBER 7: They thought they're going to be safe here.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Sigal and Menashe Mansouri are also still fighting.
S. MANSURSI: We just know that they went to a festival and they never came back. And we do know that their last couple of hours were --
MENASHE MANSURI, DAUGHTERS KILLED ON OCTOBER 7: Hell.
S. MANSURSI: Were hell.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Two years after their daughters were slaughtered inside this bomb shelter, they are fighting for answers and accountability.
M. MANSURI: What we're looking for is the truth.
S. MANSURSI: We want to know the truth in a legal way, in a decent way, in a respected way. We want to know what led us to October 7th. We want to
know how come the IDF didn't respond for so many hours.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The couple helped found the October Council, pushing for an independent commission of inquiry to investigate Israel's failures
that helped lead to October 7th.
DIAMOND: But two years later, can you believe that you still have to fight for all of this? Did you think this fight would last this long?
S. MANSURSI: No, no. You know what? It's even more than that. I didn't think that we'll have to fight for this.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But the Israeli prime minister has refused, claiming the commission would be biased.
S. MANSURSI: When you have nothing to hide, you just -- you know, how come you're so against it? I mean, why are you trying to fight it?
DIAMOND: Do you believe that a state commission of inquiry will ever be set up while Prime Minister Netanyahu remains in office?
M. MANSURI: No.
S. MANSURSI: Most likely and unfortunately, no.
M. MANSURI: The country, the State of Israel needs to have the truth about what happened.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Along the border where Hamas militants stormed into Israel, the devastation wrought by Israel's subsequent attacks on Gaza is
unmistakable.
Here, the fight for Israel's character and its future are also on display.
SAPIR SLUZKER AMRAN, ISRAELI ACTIVIST: We came to the fence today, as close as we can to Gaza, to say that not all Israelis support the genocide,
not all Israelis are supporting the starvation of Gaza.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Others have come to see and revel in the destruction.
RAFAEL HEMO, ISRAELI CITIZEN: No Arabs are supposed to be next to us here.
DIAMOND: So, you want Gaza razed to the ground?
HEMO: No Gaza.
DIAMOND: No Gaza.
HEMO: All the buildings. I see a couple of buildings there, It's empty. I want this flat. If you ask me, if Trump wants to build a base here, you're
welcome.
DIAMOND: Some would say that's genocide or that's ethnic cleansing.
HEMO: No, it's not genocide.
DIAMOND (voice-over): For Vicky Cohen, whether Israel prioritizes a deal to free the hostages or a forever war in Gaza will also define its future.
COHEN: It's a fight of something bigger than to release the hostages. It's something very basic of the Jewish community here in Israel, that we care
for each other. We don't sacrifice the lives for the land.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: And one thing to note, in about 20 minutes from now, I'll be talking to Moshe Lavi, whose brother-in-law of one of the hostages, Omri
Miran, we'll be talking to him just about half past the hour.
President Trump and the Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, were at the White House today and they were discussing trade and key issues. It was Mr.
Carney's second visit to the White House this year. And it follows the Canadian economy continuing to feel the negative effects of U.S. tariffs,
35 percent on non-USMCA goods.
President Trump is promising to reach a comprehensive trade deal, but the prime minister striking an -- was striking up -- the prime minister, I beg
your pardon, was striking an optimistic tone as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: There are areas where we compete, and it's in those areas where we have to come to an agreement that works.
But there are more areas where we are stronger together, and that's what we're focused on. And we're going to get the right deal. Right deal for
America, right deal, obviously, from my perspective, for Canada.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: No trade breakthroughs were announced. Canada, says the two leaders, asked negotiators to quickly get deals on steel, aluminum and
energy. Paula's with me, Paula Newton, from outside the Canadian embassy in Washington, D.C. The U.S. -- I mean, the warmth of the greeting, et cetera,
et cetera, is fine. But it reminds me of that old saying, so what have you done for me lately? There was no deal.
[18:10:00]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is no deal, and a comprehensive one is not in the offing yet. Lord knows if it would even happen next year. I
think it is better to lean on two things. One, Richard, is the fact that, loOK. these two men obviously have a good rapport, and that is important in
order to salvage any kind of a trade deal. But point two is understanding that USMCA, Canada, Mexico, the United States, that's over. The president
has made that clear.
I also want to talk about what Prime Minister Mark Carney has been saying in Canada the last few weeks. And he literally, Richard, calls it a
rupture. And he is trying to get Canadians and principally the Canadian economy in shape to deal with the United States that likes tariff, will
continue to keep them in place for the foreseeable future, and to try and pivot Canada's economy away from the United States.
Richard, you know better than anyone how difficult that will be to do. But it is a warning to other allies as well, do not -- as large and lucrative
as the US market is, it will come with strings attached in each and every sector. And even when Donald Trump leaves office, it seems that, you know,
even Democrats may not let go of these kinds of tariffs.
QUEST: OK. But bridge for me, because you are based in Canada, bridge for me the unpopularity -- no, let me rephrase that, the lowering of popularity
that Carney now faces, bearing in mind swept in, strongman, elbows whichever way, and now how is he viewed?
NEWTON: Look, he talked a great game during the election, and that was quite a historic win given where his party was before it started. But like
you said, what have you done for me lately?
Canada's unemployment rate is shockingly high right now. You take youth unemployment, again, very depressing outlook for the Canadian economy. Is
Canada technically in recession? No, not yet. But when you look at the unemployment picture and the fact that it continues to rise in key sectors,
those good paying jobs, you bet Canadians are taking it out on Mark Carney. And a meeting like this with nothing substantive coming out of it. Look,
he's got more leeway for sure in the coming months, but not too much.
QUEST: OK. So, the president, pardon the crudity of the phrase, has got him where he wants him, in a sense. And the only thing that Carney can do,
unless he gives ground, is this, as we heard earlier, this longer-term reappraisal of the Canadian economy.
NEWTON: And that will be very difficult structurally. All you have to do is look at a map. After that, look at a map of the energy links between
Canada and the United States. Is it impossible? No, it's not impossible. But it is only ever going to involve a certain segment of your economy.
Canada needs to get more competitive on every level. It is a stark message that even Mark Carney has not come out to the Canadian people to say, look,
this is what you're going to have to do, because we're not getting back all that trade with the United States.
Listen though, on energy itself, President Donald Trump is listening. And on that, there is some hope that the deal will actually look quite good and
perhaps even terror-free at the end of it.
QUEST: I'm grateful. Paula, thank you, outside the embassy. Thank you. Now, newly leaked documents show that China may be working closely with
Russia in its training its troops for a military invasion. CNN's Will Ripley with the details from Taipei.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A trove of leaked documents, verified by a leading think tank, reveals Russia may be teaching
China how to drop tanks and troops from a plane.
This risky Cold War maneuver Russian airborne forces call landing in a train. A former Ukrainian intelligence officer who helped verify the leaked
documents says it's clear why the Chinese want this training.
OLEKSANDR DANYLIUK, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE: It's actually a very critical component which is needed for China being ready to invade Taiwan.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Oleksandr Danyliuk and a team at Royal United Services Institute examined 800 pages of documents leaked by hackers. They
suggest Russia's more experienced airborne forces may be helping China prepare for a Taiwan invasion.
Moscow may also supply armored vehicles, weapons and training A battalion of Chinese paratroopers, the documents say.
DANYLIUK: So, you have this full airborne regiment landing on Taiwanese soil, and it's all around the capital. So, like, the Capital could be taken
in just a few days.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Chinese military planners have long been looking for ways to seize control of Taiwan's sea and air within the first 72 hours
before the U.S. and others have time to respond. CNN has not verified the leaked documents, and it's not clear if the deal is in effect.
[18:15:00]
Taiwan's foreign ministry says they've taken notice of Beijing and Moscow's recent military cooperation. We also asked the Chinese and Russian defense
ministries for comment. So, far, no response.
U.S. Intelligence says China's People's Liberation Army is also rapidly expanding its rocket force -- well over 3,000 missiles, new missile bases
up and down the Chinese coast facing Taiwan.
This base, built in just two years. Look at these satellite images from 2020 and 2022. They're even putting new bases in old buildings.
JOSEPH WEN, OPEN SOURCE INTELLIGENCE RESEARCHER (through translator): This is where the artillery brigade of the 73rd Army Group is stationed. What's
unique, they used a deserted textile factory as their base.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Joseph Wen is an open-source researcher in Taiwan. For the past four years, he's been using satellite imagery to map out
China's massive military footprint.
WEN (through translator): What you're looking at on this map now is Pingtan (ph), the closest point of China to Taiwan. And there are many
long-range artillery units at this location established at the end of 2022, right after Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan.
RIPLEY: So, what does it tell you that China is bolstering its artillery bases that are within firing range of Taiwan.
WEN: In recent years, China has put more focus on lower cost and higher volume, long-range artillery, which could deplete Taiwan's reserves of air
defense missiles.
RIPLEY (voice-over): China's rocket force has been rocked by corruption scandals, and no one knows how well its missiles perform in actual combat.
Experts warn sheer numbers could overwhelm Taiwan's defenses.
The island is responding with military drills, turning city streets into combat zones, subway stations into mock battlegrounds. A message to the
public, be ready.
RIPLEY: Here in Taipei, people would only have a few minutes warning if China fired a missile. That's how quickly they could arrive here.
Experts say China's military buildup is the largest the world has seen since before World War II. And while the People's Liberation Army has
surpassed Russia in almost all areas, the airborne forces are an exception.
That's because Russia's airborne forces have combat experience while the PLA does not. But they certainly do seem to be preparing for combat.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now, just before we take a break, let me update you and brief you on this news. Five people have been arrested in Ecuador after an alleged
assassination attempt on the country's president. The energy minister says President Daniel Noboa's car was surrounded by a group of about 500 people
who were all throwing rocks. There were signs of bullet damage later found on the vehicle. The minister says the president was not hurt in the attack.
In just a moment, as I brief you on other matters, IKEA, how are you putting together a piece of IKEA furniture? Well, the outgoing CEO, we
discussed the company, and I'd always wanted to see, could he do it? We'll find out after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
QUEST: A warm welcome back. Time for a Business Breakout. Let me break out how the markets did for you. And they pulled back a bit from record highs.
The 500 fell for the first time in more than a week, all three were down. But look, let's not get too excited, bearing in mind the gains that we have
seen. And we're all pretty near the record levels.
The chipmaker AMD was up for a second day in a row on the deal with A.I. It's up another 4 percent, $211. Oracle, though, down 0.5 percent on a
report that its A.I. data centers are less profitable than many had first thought. Larry Ellison, with all those billions, where are they going to
go?
As for gold, gold, it's now about $4,000 an ounce for the first time. That is a record. You know my views on gold. I've never really understood the
whole nature of why and how and what. But it doesn't really matter, $4,000 an ounce. It's amazing. It's risen more than 50 percent. And this is
because of uncertainty and central bank buying. Now is not the time to wish you had got into gold, although there'll be many people who'll say there's
still some room for it to go.
The other business headlines to bring to your attention, Tesla's unveiled a cheaper version of its best-selling automobiles. It's the Model 3 standard
and the Model Y standard. And they're expected to be on the roads by the end of the year. $5,000 less than the premium versions. And now, of course,
whether the discount will attract people, especially since the U.S. tax credits for electric cars has expired. We'll talk about that a little bit
more in a moment or two.
The parent company of the New York Stock Exchange is making a sizable bet on crypto-based betting platform Polymarket. The intercontinental exchange
is taking a $2 billion stake in the firm. It values it at $8 billion. It follows Polymarket preparing to re-enter the U.S. more than three years
after restricting American users.
A new report says renewable energy sources generated more electricity globally than coal in the first half of this year. It was a report from the
climate think tank EMBA. Apparently, demand for clean energy was so great it led to a decline in coal and gas usage. EMBA says it represents a
crucial turning point for renewables, and this is despite Donald Trump's administration's opposition to green investment and the E.U.'s continual
reliance on fossil fuels.
IKEA's largest operator has bought the logistics company firm Locus to improve online sales. The Ingka Group says the move will simplify and save
money on IKEA deliveries. IKEA competes in the U.S. with Wayfair and Walmart, and it's contending with higher costs from new tariffs.
The outgoing CEO of IKEA says his biggest legacy will be bringing IKEA into the future. Jesper Brodin joined me when he explained how IKEA furniture
has been made more durable for second-hand use.
Now, if you're like me, you've always had a bit of a challenge when you've put these things together. So, me and the CEO building -- well, he did most
of the work, an IKEA chair fresh out the box.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I am having palpitations.
JESPER BRODIN, CEO, INGKA GROUP: Here we go. This is going to be a chair in a few moments.
QUEST: Just let's show it.
These are impossible to put together.
BRODIN: Absolutely incorrect and we shall prove it. Let's see.
QUEST: We have three implements.
BRODIN: Here we go. And you've got to be in charge of the assembly structure.
QUEST: Number one.
BRODIN: Yes. You know, can I tell you what's a good number one. Make sure we have all the screws. OK?
QUEST: This is going to get embarrassing even before we've started.
BRODIN: Have you opened these ones?
QUEST: Its open. Yes, it is open.
BRODIN: Yes, I would like to see them here.
QUEST: Oh, no, no. They'll fall on the floor.
BRODIN: OK. OK. Let's see, let's see.
QUEST: No, I mustn't argue. I must not argue with the CEO of IKEA who does actually know what he is doing.
[18:25:00]
BRODIN: We would see that in a moment. So, we are going to start with these legs actually.
QUEST: Take the legs.
BRODIN: Yes. We take the legs.
QUEST: And we want the bit with the two holes at the bottom.
BRODIN: Right. So, which way are they going to go.
QUEST: It goes -- yes, that bit. The prongs point away from the point -- the rounded bit.
BRODIN: OK. Good. Here we are.
QUEST: Your reputation is on the line here.
BRODIN: Yes. I know. This is the risk we were taking, both you and I, I think, but particularly me.
QUEST: What do you think has been your biggest achievement in all of that time?
BRODIN: Well, I think to be honest, I think I've been leading two transformations. I think to be open to change and to be able to -- being a
legacy, strong legacy, to love the past, but also create the future.
QUEST: Number three, so now we've put these screws.
BRODIN: Now, we take the small ones. Yes. Right. One-and-a-half years ago, we actually said in the aftermath of the pandemic, we decided to as we were
coming out of pandemic, we saw a little bit sluggish sales because people bought a lot of home furnishings during the pandemic, and we decided to
actually reset after the inflation.
So, we invested 2.1 billion euro in lowering prices, which actually made our last year's sales in money was flat, but the pieces and the customers
grew, incredibly.
QUEST: Right. OK. So, that's number four done.
BRODIN: So, --
QUEST: Now, we are on to number five -- oh, now come on. This is oh -- this is -- oh, dear. This is really -- this is --
BRODIN: You're going to make it. It is probably going to slide into this one, right?
QUEST: What? Slide?
BRODIN: How about that?
QUEST: Oh, I see, yes, it is sliding in there.
BRODIN: It is quite simple actually.
QUEST: No. Yes, there you go. There you go. So, here we are.
How much is the reputation? You know, everybody loves IKEA stuff. And the quality level is good, but people still would like to see the -- sometimes,
just does it last? Does the furniture? Do you need to work on that more?
BRODIN: Well, we did actually, to be honest, back in 2000, I think '12 or '13, we took a good look at ourselves in the mirror and we had excellent
quality and we had some beauty spots, if I say like that. So, we did a total wash. But the interesting thing, the most interesting thing, Richard,
was our products weren't actually designed and engineered for a second hand. So, the first assembly works, but when you disassemble it and
assemble it many times, it actually starts to crack.
QUEST: Oh, that. when you've built it.
BRODIN: So, you had to actually redo all the engineering for a second hand.
QUEST: Right? So, what would you prefer to do? Keep the obsolescence involved? In other words, once you've disassembled it, it is useless or not
as good or re-engineer so that second assembly is --
BRODIN: No, we made the decision those years way back, actually. We have to do it for second hand. So, --
QUEST: All right.
BRODIN: All right, time has come to do the last moment here and we are so far so good and here we are.
QUEST: When you design these things, it is really clever how you actually design it, so --
BRODIN: You know, it is a very interesting design formula. It is called a democratic design. It is five things -- it is form, function quality,
sustainability, and then the most tricky one of all, low price. So, you need to do all of this and still make sure that it is -- and that is why
engineering is so important.
QUEST: How often does your sustainability come into conflict with low price?
BRODIN: Today, honestly.
QUEST: Yes.
BRODIN: Sustainability is one of the biggest drivers for us to get cost and price down and when you look at it, it is not that difficult, right? If
you manage to make the flatpack flatter, you will save cost. If you find a way to save material, it will save cost. If you're building circular flows,
you save cost.
If you have renewable energy in your production, in your transport, you will save cost. So, again, for us today, actually sustainability is one of
the big business driver.
Here we are. Beautiful, democratic design with a flexibility in it. Now, you have to try it and see if you like it.
QUEST: All right. It is classic, isn't it?
BRODIN: It is. It actually has the flexibility as well. So, it is built for comfort. It should be safe.
QUEST: What could possibly go wrong?
BRODIN: Nothing. We made it. So, thank you so much.
QUEST: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As you can see, he did most of the work and he even signed it at the back. And it is still holding my weight, although perhaps I shouldn't
put too much testing on it. I will brief you more in just a moment. This is CNN. Good morning to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
QUEST: A warm welcome back. I'm Richard Quest. This is "The Brief." Let me brief you on the headlines that we are watching for you.
President Trump met with Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney at the White House. The discussion was on trade. The Canadian prime minister described
the meeting as successful, positive and substantive. The talks continue to reach deals on steel, aluminum and energy.
U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has been grilled by senators on Capitol Hill. Senate Democrats claim she's using the weight of the department to go
after President Trump's perceived enemies. The attorney general faced tough questions on the prosecution of the former FBI Director James Comey, as
well as the Jeffrey Epstein files and the Trump administration's push to use the military in U.S. cities.
Israelis are marking the second anniversary of the October 7th attacks like paying respects to 1,200 people killed that day. 48 hostages are still held
by Hamas and its allies. The Israeli government believes 20 of the hostages are alive. Negotiations are taking place in Egypt for their release and an
end to the fighting in Gaza. Some pro-Palestinian groups are also holding rallies, drawing criticism for the timing of their rallies.
Joining me now is Moshe Lavi. He is the brother-in-law of Omri Miran, who was kidnapped from Nahal Oz on October the 7th. Moshe, thank you for
joining us. Very, very difficult, obviously, two years that you, your family, the country has faced. But as you hear negotiations -- well, first
of all, the Trump plan, then negotiations, and then a willingness by Hamas to release all the hostages, that is a hope that you can have for the first
time.
MOSHE LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF HOSTAGE OMRI MIRAN: Thank you for having me this evening, Richard. It's been a really difficult two years for us as a
family and as a nation, as you pointed out. And I think for the wider region as well. We've been trying to hold on to the hope that we can bring
Omri home after he was kidnapped brutally in front of my sister, Lishai, and two nieces, Roni and Alma.
[18:35:00]
And yes, Trump's plan, Trump's framework, appears to have broke some deadlock that we've had in the past few months over the new vision, both
for the hostage crisis and for the latter stages of the conflict. And I hope that we'll find the breakthrough as well in the negotiation room in
Sharm el-Sheikh. The road is still very long, sadly, and time is of the essence. But I am confident that Trump's administration is doing everything
they can to expedite things.
QUEST: I suppose, for your sister, she -- it's not an easy way to put it, is it, Moshe, but she dare not hope, in a sense. She hopes to the nth
degree, but having had so much disappointment and so much heartache so far, that to be so close now to the end is tantalizing.
LAVI: I want to differentiate between hope and optimism. We as a family, and my sister included, are always hopeful, always hopeful that the future
will be better, that we'll see Omri reuniting with her. But as you pointed out, we can't be too optimistic. We've been disappointed time and again by
the conduct of different stakeholders. And, of course, we don't expect much from a terrorist organization that brutalized Israelis on October the 7th,
brutalized us even before that through terrorist attacks and rocket- launched on -- to my hometown, Sderot, for decades. And so, we can't trust them.
And to a degree, negotiations will be tough, like any other negotiation of a war. But we hold on to the hope. We have to, for the girls, for Roni and
Alma, so that their father will be home soon.
QUEST: You said in an article that you had published in the Times of Israel, you said when Omri comes home, Israel will be able to breathe
again. But then you go on to say the Israel that he will return to is not the same country. The Israel you knew, sir, has gone. The Israel you longed
for is still waiting to be rebuilt, not from strength but from compassion and truth. What do you mean by that?
LAVI: What I meant when I wrote this, and it came from the heart, is that October the 7th really changed our perception of security, of safety, in a
way, of the foundations of our society. And the crisis ever since illustrated on one hand that Israelis are willing to fight for their
country, willing to sacrifice themselves, both in the home front and the battlefield, for the rescue of the hostages, but on the other hand, that we
have normalized some terrible things, including the fact that hostages have been held for so long.
And so, we have to bring the hostages back in order to bring back a sense of the unity we have and also the sense of prioritizing and sanctifying
life.
QUEST: Right. Do you and have you ever doubted that the government's primary goal was the return of the hostages? I know that's a very difficult
thing to even contemplate. I understand that. But at a time when, you know, the negotiations are now in the last stages, we believe, has there been a
moment of doubt?
LAVI: At the moment, I don't have doubt that my prime minister is trying to find a resolution to the conflict. He's committed to Trump's plan, and
he stated it publicly. And I hope that his envoys in the negotiation room are presenting that stance.
However, there are members of our government from the radical right who have pointed out time and again that they are an obstacle to negotiations.
And I differentiate them and the majority of the government and the majority of the people of Israel who in every poll state that they want the
hostages back, that this is the primary objective of this war for us.
QUEST: Moshe, please, I mean, what can one say to you and your family other than we wish you well and we wish for the happiest of outcomes when
the negotiations are over. Sir, I'm grateful. Thank you for taking the time to join me tonight. Thank you.
LAVI: Thank you.
QUEST: This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
QUEST: OpenAI is releasing its latest public threat report. And it says suspected Chinese government operatives have asked ChatGPT to help write
proposals to develop surveillance tools. Now, this is extraordinary because the report also includes examples of how hackers and scammers are trying to
use A.I. in their operations. So, Jim Sciutto sat down with OpenAI's principal investigator.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: So, reading this threat assessment, one thing that stands out, of course, is that state actors are very active in the
space of attempting to maliciously use artificial intelligence. And the People's Republic of China, one of the leading practitioners. Tell us how.
BEN NIMMO, PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR, OPENAI: So, something that we've been seeing for a while now, probably over a year, is that it looks like there's
a push within the People's Republic of China to get better at using artificial intelligence for large-scale things like surveillance and
monitoring. And as part of that, you get individuals in China who seem to have an idea for here's some sort of tool that I can develop or a tool that
I can pitch. Some of them appear to be linked to the government. Some may be contractors just doing a pitch. But with some of them, it looks like
they're not really quite sure how to write that pitch.
And so, occasionally, what we see is that they'll turn to ChatGPT, and they'll ask ChatGPT for help in writing this pitch or this documentation or
this plan for some kind of big surveillance tool. We don't see any indication that they're then trying to use ChatGPT to develop the thing.
But it gives us just a little snapshot of the way people in China who appear to have government links are trying to develop A.I.-powered tools.
So, they might be trying to develop some kind of tool for surveillance of the Uyghur population to see, like, who's moving in and out of the Xinjiang
area. They might be trying to do large-scale social media monitoring to look for terms that are dangerous to them. But it's this very curious case
where the idea seems to be let's use big A.I. tools to do this. But we don't quite know how to do this, so we're going to ask ChatGPT instead.
And so, you get this very fine snapshot of just a moment where people in China seem to be trying to develop these tools. They're not using ChatGPT
to deploy them. And the interesting thing is that that gives you kind of the direction of travel. It tells you they're trying to develop a tool
which is meant to do this. But if they're only writing the project pitch, they're not there yet.
SCIUTTO: How much more effective does A.I. make these tools? Because you mentioned, for instance, monitoring the Uyghur population or other
influence operations, disinformation campaigns, things that they've done before. But they're using A.I. to basically try to do it better, right? And
are they succeeding?
NIMMO: They start plugging A.I. into different parts of their chain of operations. It looks like in some ways they're avoiding mistakes that they
would have otherwise made.
[18:45:00]
So, the classic example would be Chinese covert influence operations have always been notorious for being really bad at English. And if you use a
large language model, one of the things it's good at is language. And so, maybe they'll be able to generate more effective social media posts. So,
they're avoiding those language errors, but they're still running them from fake accounts which have zero followers, zero friends, zero engagement,
zero likes.
So, it's like you're avoiding the language errors, but you're not doing anything to solve the other problems that you have. And it's very much this
kind of piecemeal approach. You do find that sometimes -- for example, we had a case in February this year where again a Chinese language operator
was trying to sort out some code for what looked like a very large scale model to analyze very large social media flows.
And in theory, A.I. is meant to be pretty good at that. But the problem was this guy's code wasn't working. And so, he dumped the code into ChatGPT and
basically asked, why isn't it working? And so, thereby, he blew the cover of his operation.
SCIUTTO: Right. So, that gives you an opportunity, I imagine, to catch. I've seen Sam Altman speak, and he often speaks in terms of, you know, this
is -- OpenAI is meant to be A.I. for the democratic world, right, espousing democratic values. And you do have actors, undemocratic actors, attempting
to use it as well to their advantage. Are you able to get it before it's deployed effectively?
NIMMO: It's a mixed picture, particularly with the really scaled stuff, the sort of building a tool for scaled monitoring. What we tend to see in
our little snapshot of the bigger picture is effectively somebody saying, this tool's not working, and I need to do this and this and this to make it
work. That implies that the intent is there, but something hasn't quite got through yet. If it does work, then they're not going to come to our model.
So, we don't get to see that part of it.
In the influence operation space, what's interesting is that we have seen influence operations which are getting much better at generating fluent
English text, and maybe they're generating images as well. But then they're posting them on social media accounts which have no followers and no
friends and no likes. And it's almost as if it doesn't matter that your content is better if nobody's seeing it.
SCIUTTO: There are other tells.
NIMMO: There are other tells. And if you have an account which is -- the name on the account is completely different from the name in the link, and
then maybe that the name in the link is male and the profile picture pretends to be, you know, a blonde girl from the United States. There are
so many giveaways, and the use of A.I. doesn't seem to be addressing any of those.
So, it's as if A.I. solves one set of problems, but it doesn't address any of the others. And they haven't quite worked that out yet.
SCIUTTO: So, scammers have been around long before -- you know, since the beginning of time. And of course, scammers have discovered the power and
benefit of A.I. Where do you see them most active and how do you catch them?
NIMMO: The weakness in that is that the underpinning is that even if the language is perfect and you're making prolific use of emojis, you're still
sending a WhatsApp message from an unknown number saying, hey, come and work for this company for $5,000 an hour for clicking three -- there's an
inherent implausibility to it that the language -- the improved language won't actually make a difference to.
But the really big thing we're seeing on the scams front is it turns out that large language models are pretty good at calling out the indicators of
scams. And something that we've seen is millions of times a month, people are -- real people are asking ChatGPT words to the effect of, I just got
this text message. Does it look like a scam? And ChatGPT will -- you know, and they'll paste in a screenshot or they'll drop it into the model and the
ChatGPT will say, well, this company is probably not going to be phoning you from an Indonesian phone number or a Filipino phone number, and they're
probably professional recruiters don't often use that many emojis. And you look at the link that they're sending out and the model will say, yes,
that's probably a scam. So, don't click on the link and don't reply and do report it and do block it.
And we're seeing that happen millions of times a month. And we think it's - - our estimate is roughly that that's happening three times more often than actual scammers using the model.
SCIUTTO: It's a good tool to keep in mind to spot this stuff. Ben Nimmo, OpenAI, we appreciate you joining.
NIMMO: Thanks very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now, interestingly, asked about OpenAI's findings, a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington said the following, we oppose groundless
attacks and slanders against China. The government's introduced a major policy plans and ethical guidelines, as well as laws and regulations on
algorithmic services, generative A.I. and data security. China's foreign ministry said back in February, we are against drawing lines along
ideological difference, overstretching the concept of national security or politicizing trade and tech issues.
So, there you are. The new affordable versions of electronic vehicles from Tesla, affordable. Now, are they just stripped-down versions of the real
thing? In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
QUEST: Tesla has unveiled the long promised cheaper version of its two primary electric vehicles. They're labeled standard, but they're only
slightly less expensive, around $7,500. But this all follows the $7,500 tax credit expiration for electric vehicles that happened on September the
30th.
The new Model 3 will cost a little more than $38,000. Some comfort and tech features have been removed. The Y starts around $41,000. It's about 5K off
the premium versions and they're available towards the end of the year.
So, let's find out exactly what they are. Joining me now is John Murphy, the managing director of strategic advisory at Hague Partners, a firm
specializing in auto, truck, and RV dealerships. So, these new cars, sir, these new style -- I love that phrase, standard, isn't it, that sort of
means it's -- that's the norm. I mean, what are we not getting? That's what I want to know. What am I not getting?
JOHN MURPHY, STRATEGIC ADVISORY MANAGING DIRECTOR, HAIG PARTNERS: Well, I think, Richard -- well, first of all, thanks for having me. I think as you
look at this, there's a lot of folks scratching their heads. When you look at, you know, new product cycles for the auto industry, and I've been
looking at this for, you know, about 30 years now, it's incredibly important to have, you know, new products that the consumer perceives as
new and different.
And when you have something that looks fairly similar and, as you very rightfully pointed out, is downgraded, it's not something that really spurs
a tremendous amount of interest for the consumer. And it creates a lot of risk in devaluing your product and maintaining price for existing product
is incredibly important in the auto industry.
QUEST: And essentially, this is just a net wash, isn't it? Because the EV credit was slightly larger than the lower price on this. So, what you've
gained on the swings, you've lost on the roundabouts.
MURPHY: Yes, I think they refer to this, Richard, as shrinkflation to some extent in consumer and consumer products. And you're seeing it happen in
the auto industry and specifically here with Tesla. But it's really important to remember sort of that the relative gap between new and used
pricing is vitally important to the consumer in the auto industry. And when you start cutting price and devaluing the product, it means the existing
product that's in the market, hundreds of thousands of Tesla Model 3s and Ys that are in the U.S., have now also been devalued.
So, when those consumers come back in to trade in those vehicles and try to use the equity in their vehicles to buy the next new Model Y or 3 or other
vehicle, it's going to be very difficult for them to do so. And their equity is a lot lower. It's a big problem.
QUEST: Is it worth doing all this for 5K?
MURPHY: You know, I think that's a very good question. And the reality is it will probably spur sales in the near-term and boost a lot of interest in
the product. Two to three to four to five years out, it's creating probably more risk than it's worth.
And you really want to come out with a new product. I mean, the folks that, you know, create Apple iPhones that are essentially black bricks, know they
need to change the form factor and make it look a lot different to really spur consumer interest.
[18:55:00]
QUEST: OK. So, this leads me to say, choosing my words carefully, has the sort of the DOGE political stigma that did attach itself to Tesla because
of Musk's involvement in the administration, has that abated gone away or is it just still there grumbling?
MURPHY: You know, I think it's probably faded quite a bit. And when you look at the American consumer over time through all sorts of tragedies,
they tend to eventually look through things and forget that. So, I think over time that that won't be a big impact to Vines.
But really, they need to come out with new, really attractive, better priced product. And this is, you know, new product that's not really that
great, that's, you know, a little bit lower priced, but it's really, you know, not going to spur long-term fundamental growth for this company.
QUEST: I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you. That's the way I put it for tonight.
MURPHY: Thanks, Right.
QUEST: Thank you very much. Now, I'm grateful, too, for your company. Jim's back tomorrow. I'm Richard Quest in New York. It's kind of you to be
with us wherever you are in the world. If it's your evening on one side of the ocean or your morning on the other, you are now voluntarily briefed for
the day ahead. This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
