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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Israeli Government to Vote on Gaza Ceasefire; Israel and Hamas Agree to First Phase of Gaza Ceasefire Plan; Trump Plans to Visit Israel and Egypt; New York Attorney General Letitia James Indicted; Legal Hearings on National Guard Deployments; Israeli Government Formally Approves Gaza Ceasefire Plan. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 09, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Israel's cabinet meets to vote on a ceasefire agreement that could free the last remaining Israeli hostages in Gaza.
Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who brought civil charges against the Trumps, has now been indicted for alleged mortgage fraud. And
the president of Colombia says that a boat struck last week by the U.S. may have had Colombian citizens on board.
We begin, though, with Israeli ministers holding a meeting which started a little more than two hours ago. In that meeting, they're going to vote on a
ceasefire resolution brokered by the U.S. President Donald Trump, Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, and son-in-law Jared Kushner have joined that meeting.
Once the government approves the plan, if it does, a pause in fighting is expected to take effect immediately. Many in Gaza have been welcoming the
long-awaited peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank God the war has ended and the truce has come into effect. It's an indescribable feeling of joy and
happiness beyond words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everyone is happy, and I am happy myself. But at the same time, I hope the war never returns. Two years of
massacres, bombardment, and death for the people of Gaza, and global failure, not only Arab.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump says the remaining Israeli hostages held by Hamas and other groups in Gaza are to be released by Monday or Tuesday.
Israel and Hamas have agreed to the first phase of a 20-point peace plan. That first phase includes a ceasefire, the release of all hostages in
exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, as well as more humanitarian aid to reach Gaza. Israel says that 48 hostages remain held in
Gaza, at least 20 of them believed to be alive.
Right now, we have the Israeli prime minister speaking in Israel as that meeting continues. After the initial phase, new and more difficult
negotiations will follow, including on the more intractable questions, including disarming Hamas, as well as what government will follow for Gaza.
Jeremy Diamond has the latest from Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From celebratory dancing in the streets of Gaza to tears of joy in Tel Aviv's Hostage
Square, Israelis and Palestinians have waited two agonizing years for this moment. A ceasefire agreement has been struck. All of the hostages will be
released, and the war in Gaza is coming to an end.
Amid celebrations, the Israeli cabinet convening to formally approve the deal, which will trigger an immediate ceasefire. Israeli troops will begin
withdrawing from parts of Gaza while holding on to 53 percent of the strip, according to an Israeli official. Within 72 hours, humanitarian aid will
surge into Gaza, and the hostages will go free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump, you have the best crowd in the world. What do you guys have to say to President Trump?
CROWD: Thank you.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did it, thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is amazing.
TRUMP: The hostages will come back. They're all coming back on Monday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND (voice-over): Amid a full court press from the United States, a deal brokered in Egypt quickly rippled through the region. Whoever doesn't
have internet and is not aware the war is over, this journalist shouted in the streets of northern Gaza. A ceasefire has been agreed.
[18:05:00]
By daybreak. The news was everywhere. This feeling is the most beautiful feeling I have ever felt, this man says. Today, after two years of
suffering, hunger and humiliation, we feel reborn. Today is a day of victory. Israel has yet to declare it, but mediators from Egypt and Qatar
say this deal will lead to an end of the war. Hamas says the U.S. also provided those assurances.
We have received guarantees from the mediating brothers and from the American administration, all confirming that the war has ended permanently.
In Israel, a festive atmosphere awaits the hostages.
DIAMOND: For two years, Hostage Square has been filled with the sound of protest. But tonight, as you can hear behind me, it is nothing but
celebration.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Michel Illouz is among those celebrating.
MICHEL ILLOUZ, FATHER OF DECEASED HOSTAGE: I'm familiar with all these kids by poster, and now I will be able to meet them physically. And I'm so
excited for them.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But for Illouz, it's bittersweet. His son Guy is among 28 deceased hostages in Gaza.
ILLOUZ: I will get him by DNA, by bones. How can I recognize him? How can I be able to bury him without -- to recognize him? And I'm so afraid from
this moment because it's kind of starting of recovery. I hope so.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Adding to the uncertainty, Hamas doesn't know the location of all hostage bodies. And Illouz doesn't know if he'll ever get
closure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, those families have been waiting so long for some relief. Joining me now is Nic Robertson in Cairo. Nic, as you know, the ceasefire
and the hostage release, they're no small issues by any means. But the agreement so far leaves many of the most intractable questions, such as who
will run Gaza? Will Hamas be disarmed? What will become of Hamas? And even the question of the future of a Palestinian State, is there a pathway
forward to answer those questions?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The pathway at the moment seems to be one that's built on momentum, right? The idea was to get
the easy part done and then move on to the other questions. I don't think at this stage it's going to build trust between the two sides. We're such a
long way from that. And one, for instance, is Hamas is expected to disarm. The question that's being raised in Israel by some is, well, is the IDF's
job, their responsibility to be involved in the disarming of Hamas, or is that for the international stabilization force to do? And the IDF is
supposed to move back when the stabilization force is ready to move in to provide security across the whole of Gaza.
So, that -- you can see that from an Israeli perspective, why would they remove their troops from a zone where they believe Hamas still has weapons
and leave it to another body, an international body, a peacekeeping body to do that? And we don't know the mechanisms of how much involvement Israel
will have in that peacekeeping body, who will be in the peacekeeping body, how -- what their rules of engagement will be, when they will be ready,
which countries will control and influence them. So, that's just one tiny aspect that has a myriad different sort of pieces in the puzzle. And I
think that really gives the clue there that there is so much yet to be done.
But the momentum that there is at the moment means that there's a ceasefire, there's a pause, people breathe, the negotiators can get back to
work on some of those thorny issues. But I have to say, a lot of people are looking at this with skepticism, in awe of what President Trump has
achieved, but also in recognition of what has been sort of sped over and not dealt with yet. And that's where the detail, the devil, et cetera, is,
and how hard it'll be to hold it all together.
SCIUTTO: Nic, given you've covered this war since those horrible first hours, just after the October 7th attacks, I can picture you walking along
that road there towards the Nova Festival with all those abandoned cars, not knowing what you would find. Can you describe the sense of relief in
Israel and the region, at least to this step?
ROBERTSON: You know, for -- the trauma that Israelis have been living through since October 7th, the trauma and the shock that their security
wasn't as profoundly strong and as immediately responsive to this threat and the killing and the kidnapping as they expected, that trauma cannot, in
most people's minds, end until the hostages are home.
[18:10:00]
But rebuilding and moving forward in an environment where Hamas has not been disarmed, defeated, as Prime Minister Netanyahu says, is really going
to -- is going to take a lot of courage for people to move on from that moment and feel that they are secure and safe. I mean, look, the same can
be absolutely said on the other side. How can the Palestinians in Gaza trust Israel that keeps going back and keeps striking back at them? And
even in the hours when everyone else has agreed to the ceasefire this evening, since last night, 30 people, according to authorities in Gaza,
have been killed in strikes, which we understand are still going on in Gaza City at the moment and killing people.
So, I think for Israelis, the chance is there to move on, to take a breath, to move into another phase of relationship with the Palestinians. But I
don't think anyone's under any imagination the way the country has shifted to the right, the way the settler movement has become stronger, that right-
wing voices have become stronger, that there's a real question over the future of the judiciary, remembering before October 7th, when Prime
Minister Netanyahu was really trying to shake the foundations of the democracy of Israel, none of that is over. None of those big, deep,
meaningful political questions are over.
SCIUTTO: No question. Nic Robertson in Cairo, thanks so much. Well, here in Washington, President Trump says that Palestinians will not be forced to
leave their homes in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nobody's going to be forced to leave. No, it's just the opposite. This is a great plan. This is a great peace plan. This is a plan that was
supported by everybody. I mean, as I said, they're dancing in the streets of many, many countries right now. It's amazing. I've never seen anything
like it. No, we're not looking to do that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes joins me now from the White House. Do we know that the president will be traveling to the region to mark these releases and
this occasion?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it certainly seems likely. He has said that he's going to travel later in the weekend,
that he could go to both Israel and Egypt. And it's something he wants to be a part of.
I mean, the thing to keep in mind here is that this is something that President Trump and his team have been working on since he was elected the
second time, since he was sworn into office. They view this as the beginning of everlasting peace.
Now, of course, this is just phase one. This is the return of the hostages. And it was interesting to hear him talk about the removal of Palestinians
from that area. It's something that he, at one point, had said would happen. But when he released that 20-point peace plan, it was in there as
though they would stay in that location.
All we know for certain is what has been agreed upon and made public in terms of this hostage switch, that's an exchange for a number of
Palestinian prisoners who are in Israel. And of course, this ceasefire and withdrawal of Israeli troops.
And while there is a celebration within the White House, they're clearly not taking anything for granted. One of the things that we learned recently
was that Steve Witkoff, the Middle Eastern envoy, as well as Trump's son- in-law, Jared Kushner, sat in on the meeting with the Israeli government, that they presented this peace plan.
And of course, just a reminder that once that peace plan is signed, and they say yes, that's when the withdrawal starts. After the withdrawal,
that's when the hostages are released. So, that's what everyone is waiting for here. But they're not taking anything for granted. They believe that
this is the start. The same group is going to participate in the next phase of negotiations.
But when you talk to a number of administration officials, they're not really under any misconception that it's going to be tough. There are a
number of sticking points for both sides, including disarmament of Hamas. That's one of them. The other one being Palestinian statehood, which Prime
Minister Netanyahu has said is a no-go for Israel.
But those talks right now are being put on hold as they celebrate this moment, work forward in this moment, and make sure that this is executed
the way that they want it to be.
SCIUTTO: And it's no small step, no question. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.
Well, as we've been discussing, Hamas could begin releasing the remaining Israeli hostages as early as Monday. Hostage families expressing relief,
cautious optimism of the 48 hostages still held in Gaza. Just 20 are believed to still be alive.
However, even if their loved ones do reach home alive, their road to recovery is just beginning. Former hostages, such as Abigail Mor Edan,
kidnapped at just three years old, will have to grapple with those experiences for really the rest of their lives. Abigail's great-aunt wrote
a book about her kidnapping by Hamas and later release, "Saving Abigail." You see her picture there.
[18:15:00]
And joining me now is Liz Naftali, the author of that book. Thanks so much for joining. Appreciate having you.
LIZ NAFTALI, GREAT-AUNT OF FORMER HOSTAGE ABIGAIL MOR EDAN: Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: Can you help us describe, just in this moment, a moment of hope for so many families who've been waiting so long for the kind of release
you witnessed? How long the path to healing is for former hostages, in your experience?
NAFTALI: Well, first, I think it's important to talk about this, because it is hopeful, but it's also heartbreaking. Because when you say that
there's 28 people who are coming home deceased, so their families need to bury them, and then the 28 men that are coming home, I know that Abigail
was held hostage for 51 days. These people are going to be coming home after two years, and two days is where we are today. So, two years and a
week.
And they have been incredibly abused. They have been starved, and most of them have had very little fresh air. They've been in deep tunnels. But what
I can say is that the minute they come back and they are with their family, is the beginning of healing for them, is the beginning of the healing for
Israel, the Middle East, and for all of us to start moving forward from this humanitarian crisis. But it's going to be a long -- and like you said
before, it will be with them for the rest of their lives.
SCIUTTO: No question. Your book, "Saving Abigail," has become not just a testimony of her story, but something of an advocacy tool. Have you seen
her story help make a difference?
NAFTALI: I think it does make a difference, because it does a few things. When you tell the story of a three-year-old who witnessed the murder of her
parents and then was dragged into Gaza for 51 days as an orphan, you're telling a truth. And this is the truth of what happened on October 7th. And
it talks about the resilience of a three-year-old in detail, but the resilience of so many Israelis, Americans, people across the world to fight
for the hostages.
And then it talks about hope. And there is hope that we can make a better world for Abigail, the children in Gaza, and for all of us, that we'll be
with peace and dignity, but we'll not be with fighting.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Of course, the most obvious scar is that poor little Abigail lost both her parents. She will live her life out as an orphan. You
mentioned the suffering of children on both sides of the frontier there. Is there an opportunity in that shared suffering for some connection going
forward?
NAFTALI: I think so. I think that -- I'm a mom, first off, and I'm an aunt. And I look at this as we must use this opportunity to find some ways
to have really difficult conversations that are about humanitarian values, moral values. And sometimes, as I heard before, we get into the politics of
it and all the different things that have gone on in Israel and gone on in Gaza. But you also hear from the people that they want to be living in
peace, and they wanted peace beforehand, my family that was murdered.
So, I think this is that opportunity. And I'm going to use my voice, and I hope that the press and everybody around the world is starting to say, OK,
this is our opportunity for us to figure out how to move forward. If we don't, then we -- shame on us, right?
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, it's -- listen, it's an opportunity here, although some of the most difficult questions remain open. For instance, things that
you have called for quite fervently, disarming Hamas, for instance. Who's going to administer Gaza going forward, right? What will be the -- who's
going to do the peacekeeping there, you know, if there's some peacekeeping force? Do you have hope that those questions can be answered?
NAFTALI: I do. First, it does start with the release of the hostages. That is the -- on October 6, there was a ceasefire. So, we all agree on that.
But the one thing that I understand -- first, I'm not in a negotiation position. I really talk about hostages and the struggle to also make sure
that children on both sides are not suffering. That's who I am.
But what I do understand is that President Trump, with Steve Witkoff since the beginning, and with Jared Kushner and Marco Rubio, this administration
is very focused on seeing that this will happen. And I do think that one of the strengths of President Trump is that he has a solid relationship with
Prime Minister Netanyahu and a very solid relationship with most of the Gulf nations. And I think that will be what can bring this forward and that
he wants to be successful. He wants a win. And the win is not just the release, but is as a peace in the Middle East. And it's a real thing, but
he's focused on it.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Liz Naftali, thanks so much for joining and our best if we can -- if you could share it for us to little Abigail as well.
NAFTALI: I will. And thank you for covering this, and may we see the hostages and peace very soon.
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Indeed. Well, coming up just after the break, federal overreach or necessary? Legal arguments about the rights and wrongs of National Guard
deployments in two U.S. cities. We'll be live in Illinois right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: A federal grand jury has now indicted New York Attorney General Letitia James for alleged bank fraud. She's been under investigation over a
mortgage she took out to help her niece buy a home in Virginia. James won a civil fraud case last year against President Trump, his adult sons, and
their real estate business, that case still being appealed. James had this to say about her indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is nothing more than a continuation of the president's desperate weaponization of our justice
system. He is forcing federal law enforcement agencies to do his bidding all because I did my job as a New York state attorney general. These
charges are baseless, and the president's own public statements make clear that his only goal is political retribution at any cost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Katelyn Polantz. And to the New York attorney general's point, Donald Trump's public words, we go back to the tweet,
which seemed to have been intended as a private message to Pam Bondi on September 20th, in which he says specifically, what about Comey, Adam
Shifty Schiff, and Letitia, referring to Letitia James. Comey's been indicted, now Letitia James. Is there a direct tie between the president's
desires and these prosecutions?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we are going to have to wait and see how things play out in court and if a judge
would agree with that possibility. That seems to be something that Letitia James' lawyer, Abbe Lowell, is already trying to tee up as something that
they will bring as a challenge in this case. Lowell also in a statement said that they were deeply concerned as the legal team that this case is
driven by Trump's desire for revenge and that they will try to fight the charges in every process allowed by law.
But Jim, let's look closely at what's in this six-page indictment that would have gone through a federal grand jury in the Eastern District of
Virginia approving the two charges here, bank fraud and lying to financial institutions or a financial institution.
[18:25:00]
This is about a three-bedroom, one-bath house that Tish James bought in Norfolk and got a mortgage on for about $100,000, a $109,000 loan for a
valued house of $137,000. Whenever she applied for that loan, she said it was a secondary residence for her alone. And what the prosecutors are
saying here is that that loan term, it prohibited her from renting it out, using it as a rental or an investment property. And she was able to get
better loan terms, a lower mortgage rate and some other things because she was telling the bank it was a second home for herself rather than a rental
property.
The ill-gotten gains, the Justice Department alleges here, about $19,000 over the life of the loan. So, that's the amount of benefit they're
alleging that Tish James received and should not have received in this allegation of bank fraud. But bank fraud, it carries a very steep possible
sentence. The maximum would be up to 30 years in prison. That is quite a hefty charge.
SCIUTTO: Let's just say right away, that's not going to happen.
POLANTZ: Absolutely not going to happen.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
POLANTZ: But I'm pointing it out because it is a much heftier allegation than what we often see in federal charges that carry one year in prison or
five years in prison.
SCIUTTO: Right.
POLANTZ: It's a serious allegation that she's facing, and that the judge will look very closely at -- in taking this through the court. But, Jim,
this is something too, in this case, where the decisions of the prosecutors, the prosecutorial discretion, that's what we talk about quite
a lot here, that's going to be looked at very closely. Is she being selectively charged or is she being charged for a political reason?
We did get a statement from the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia in announcing this. This is Lindsey Halligan, who was just
appointed just a couple of weeks ago. The charges, as alleged in this case, represent intentional criminal acts and tremendous breaches of the public's
trust. So, that's something that is very likely to be heard again in the courtroom.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Now, it's CNN's reporting that the person who previously occupied that post resigned rather than pursue this case. Is that correct,
or did not find the basis for this case prior to resignation?
POLANTZ: We do -- we have reported that the prior U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia that the Trump administration had brought in,
his name was Erik Siebert, that he did leave over disagreements around this case and that there was concern that there was not enough evidence for the
prosecutors to use as a case. But we do know now that this was something that Lindsey Halligan herself took before the grand jury in Alexandria,
Virginia today, and that it was something that the grand jury looked at as far as the bank records would be involved there and approved it, saying,
yes, there would be probable cause for a charge here.
But it's a serious charge, and it's one that often would turn on the documents used in this case in the mortgages. And, you know, it is
something, too, where we're going to see how much politics comes into the courtroom. But at the end of the day, again, that ill-gotten gains that
Tish James was accused of winning or wrongfully getting, $19,000, it's not a lot of money.
SCIUTTO: Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much for joining. Well, two major legal battles, many legal battles in this country underway over President
Trump's decision to deploy National Guard forces in Chicago and Portland, Oregon. City and state leaders argue the president is exceeding his
authority, and they want the troops out. The Trump administration says the troops are necessary to fight against, quote, "ongoing and sustained
violence" aimed at federal immigration officers.
CNN's Omar Jimenez is near an ICE detention facility outside Chicago. Omar, I'll ask you a question I asked you yesterday. Trump claims chaos. He
claims a great threat and violence against those federal immigration officers there. You're on the ground there. What do you see?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Jim, I just want to start. We -- just a few seconds ago, as you were talking, we just got news out of out
of the court here that the temporary restraining order has been granted for all of Illinois is what we understand to this point. Remember, the
plaintiff -- and the plaintiff motion will be granted in part. And the plaintiff here is the State of Illinois that was suing to stop the
deployment of the National Guard.
I want to take you through it. I literally just got it a few seconds ago that Judge Perry, in this case, had methodically been going through an oral
ruling here, which he called a high-level summary. We expect a written document to come a little bit later. But she cited previous California
decisions where she described rebellion as being deliberate, organized resistance, openly opposing the government as a whole, and that she has
seen no credible evidence that there has been rebellion in the State of Illinois.
[18:30:00]
Perry, the judge, said the evidence demonstrates that the deployment of National Guard may lead to civil unrest. She finds that deploying the
National Guard will only add fuel to the fire that the defendants have started, that is her characterization. The evidence has shown that National
Guardsmen are not well-trained law enforcement officers. One of the key things here, as we're sort of reading through, she said that the court has
been left with having to make a, quote, "credibility determination." So, your question coming to me is sort of the Trump administration's
description of what's going on. She has called the assessments made by DHS as unreliable.
And then, she even talked about here in Broadview, outside this ICE facility on the outskirts of Chicago, saying that at one recent protest,
there were 200 protesters and there were 100 state and local law enforcement officers on site, and that state and local law enforcement were
able to maintain order here.
So, while we are waiting on the final language to come down from this judge, as we understand the hearing just wrapped up literally in the last
few seconds here, the temporary restraining order has been granted for all of Illinois. So, we will look to see what exactly that means, but it
appears to mean she's going to block the deployment of National Guard, as we understand, for 14 days.
As you might imagine, the Trump administration is likely to appeal this decision, as we saw out on the West Coast with some of what the
determinations were made around Oregon and the California National Guard troops. We're still waiting on that decision and out of an appeals panel,
but obviously a pretty big moment here, and we will watch to see what happens with the National Guard troops that have been deployed to this
facility behind us.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Listen, important court decision. Omar Jimenez, thanks so much for bringing that news to us.
Still ahead, we do have an update on the Israeli government decision regarding that ceasefire proposal. We'll bring it to you right after this
break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: All right. The breaking news. We've just learned the Israeli government has now approved the Gaza ceasefire hostage resolution. Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier making a point of thanking U.S. President Donald Trump for getting the deal done, as well as the
president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, you see him there on the right, U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, they were both at that Israeli cabinet meeting
where they took a vote, and that vote has now affirmed this ceasefire proposal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: And central to one of these war aims is to return the hostages, all of the hostages, the living and the
dead. And we're about to achieve that goal. We couldn't have achieved it without the extraordinary help of President Trump and his team, Steve
Witkoff and Jared Kushner. They worked tirelessly with Ron and his team, our team.
And that and the courage of our soldiers who entered Gaza and the combined military and diplomatic pressure that isolated Hamas, I think, has brought
us to this point. I want to personally thank both of you, Steve, Jared. It's been long hours --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Barbara Leaf, former Assistant U.S. Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs. Thanks so much for taking the time.
BARBARA LEAF, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE OF NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS: Great to be here.
SCIUTTO: So, tell us what an achievement this is, because you have not one but two administrations who'd worked for months to get to a ceasefire deal
and get all the hostages out of Gaza, and we're two years and a couple of days since the start of this war. What did it take to get to this point?
LEAF: Look, Jim, it's hugely significant. There's no question. What did it take? It took the personal involvement, the sort of brutal personal
involvement, you might even say, of President Trump, but it also took the combined effort of eight countries with considerable sway in the Arab and
Muslim world coming together. And then, really, I think it was a shrewd move to put Turkey at the table for the endgame of negotiations alongside
Qatar and Egypt, because at that point, Hamas really had no place to go in the negotiations with those three aligned.
SCIUTTO: Tell me about the next phases, because several of the most difficult questions are still unanswered. Do you disarm Hamas? Who
administers Gaza going forward? What does the political leadership look like there? Peacekeeping forces, you name it. Can the two sides get to
agreement, in your view, on those intractable or so far intractable issues?
LEAF: Well, you're exactly right that most of the really, really tough, gnarly questions to be negotiated are still laying out there. And in fact,
Hamas was silent on the issue when it said yes, or sort of yes, but, last week to the negotiations or to the end of the war, it left -- it was silent
on the issue of disarmament, and it was largely silent on an issue that it has opposed all along, which is the issue of bringing in foreign forces,
even if they are Arab and Muslim. So, those are exceptionally difficult issues to negotiate. It's almost like you've got a string of many
negotiations to do along the way on a separate set of things.
SCIUTTO: Hamas has said it's received guarantees from the U.S. that Israel will not resume military action once the hostage exchange is completed. But
if we look at, for instance, the ceasefire in Lebanon with Hezbollah, which has been going on for months, Israel still strikes inside Lebanon when it
finds targets. Can we expect a similar reality going forward in Gaza?
LEAF: Well, certainly that's -- there's a high probability, or at least a high possibility of that. But look, I think that the idea that the war
itself will resume, I think, is a pretty distant prospect if no -- for no other reason than the Israeli public is extraordinarily exhausted.
Thousands are exhausted. Both are united in wanting this war over.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Tell us about the path forward here, really, for the region. Because really, we had three -- arguably four wars, right? Because you had
the war with Hezbollah in the north. You had what President Trump calls the 12-day war with Iran. You had the war in Gaza, the bloodiest of these, and
you have still ongoing conflict with Houthi rebels. How does the region find a way forward, right, is the next question?
[18:40:00]
LEAF: So, the region itself is in a state of great fragility and great plasticity. I mean, you had this remarkable sweeping of change across the
landscape, especially in the Levant, so Lebanon and Syria, but also, all of the effects that were brought to bear on Iran. So, there is an
extraordinary set of possibilities, including with Gaza. Those will be very difficult to capture, to politically reap the benefits, but it's very clear
that with the large destruction meted out to Iran and to Iran's ring of proxies, there is a set of opportunities here that simply haven't existed
for 40 years.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Well, one can hope. Former Assistant Secretary of State Barbara Leaf, thanks so much for joining.
LEAF: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we will have more on this breaking news out of Israel coming up.
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SCIUTTO: We do have more on our breaking news. The Israeli government has now formally approved the Gaza ceasefire hostage release plan. Our Jeremy
Diamond is in Tel Aviv. And, Jeremy, we also now have this news that the U.S. is sending 200 troops on the ground to provide oversight of the Gaza
plan. That's quite a remarkable decision to put U.S. forces, well, in the midst of what's been one of the bloodiest -- well, after -- the aftermath,
at least, of one of the bloodiest wars in the region in many years.
DIAMOND: Yes, it is a pretty significant and stark decision. I think you may recall, Jim, that back when we had started talking about the
possibility of some kind of international security force, Arab-led, likely with a heavy presence from the United Arab Emirates, there had been
discussions at the time that United States oversight over that force and involvement would be necessary in order to get the kind of partnership of
Arab countries to participate in this and to put really a much more significant presence of troops on the ground.
[18:45:00]
And so, it seems like that is kind of the -- what we are starting to see here, that in order for this international security force to be formed, in
order for this deal to be implemented and monitored on the ground, you know, all of the different parties to this agreement, the different
countries that may eventually contribute troops to this international security force, have decided that they wanted to see significant U.S.
involvement in this.
And those 200 troops, obviously, for Americans, that will be, you know, a not insignificant number, but it will obviously be much smaller, I presume,
than the number of forces that other countries would provide to the actual international security force. And that's likely because these individuals
would be more in the role of monitoring, coordinating, and actually implementing this agreement, although a lot still remains to be seen about
exactly how this will work.
But CENTCOM here, clearly set to play an important role in coordinating between that international security force that is set to come into being
and the Israeli military itself.
SCIUTTO: Yes, notable. And we should note, listen, this would be a strip of land that still would have the presence, at least, of some Hamas
fighters which -- who have proven themselves quite capable in carrying out terror attacks in the past. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, thanks so much for
joining.
Still ahead, Canadian businessman Kevin O'Leary, he's going to join me live here on set to discuss the state of the stock market, the state of the
economy, and new trade tensions between the U.S. and China.
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SCIUTTO: China announced Thursday it is further tightening restrictions on its rare earth exports and related technologies. Under those new rules,
products containing rare earths need Beijing's explicit approval for export.
The Chinese government says it is taking the action in the name of national security. President Trump warned today the U.S. may have to impose new
restrictions on Chinese imports in response to those latest moves. Trump also says he will discuss Beijing's ongoing boycott of U.S. soybeans when
he meets with the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, at the APEC summit in South Korea later this month. That's going to be quite a moment, the two of
them together.
Joining me now, Kevin O'Leary, world-famous entrepreneur and investor as well as a panelist on, well, one of my son's and my favorite shows, "Shark
Tank." Thanks so much for joining.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: Great to be here. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, I got a lot of questions for you. First here, when you look at the China-U.S. trade battle, I don't know if it's quite a war, but it's
an ongoing battle here. China has two big levers of power, right, of leverage, I mean, rare earths and farm products. I mean, is it possible
China's getting the better of this fight?
O'LEARY: Well, it has more than that. It's got one of the largest and fastest growing consumer markets. So, if you're, you know, doing technology
or products in the U.S., that is a massive market. The two countries need each other.
[18:50:00]
What we're learning about what I would call the dance between the two countries is that it's getting down to product category. It's -- you know,
one minute it's technology, chips, and then it's TikTok, and then it's rare earth, and then it's soybeans. This is a -- it's going to be a very long
dating relationship. It's unique to all the other countries because of the scale, but it's going to be and the size.
And so, the administration is doing what it can to set policy, but you can't do a blanket policy with China, because it still remains a country
that does -- you know, I'm a bit of a China hawk, so stealing IP is still a problem, access to somehow resolving disputes in a legal system. They're
using our financial markets in an unfair way because they have lesser compliance costs because they don't actually abide by the rules, we have
for listed companies here. All kinds of little issues that in aggregate, for lack of better words, kind of piss you off.
SCIUTTO: Yes. No, I get it. The thing is that some of those trade issues are seen both by the China -- by China and the U.S. as national security
issues, right? I mean, if you look, for instance, at our export restrictions on chips, it's a national security issue, competition over
A.I., China, you know, is saying, you know, the rare earths exports are a national security issue.
Can the dance work, right, if they see those issues in those terms, because you'd assume they wouldn't be negotiable then?
O'LEARY: Well, you could, you could say exporting Barbie dolls made in China is a national security issue, and that's what they do. It's all part
of the negotiation. In the end, the leverage is unique with China because you can't separate the economies ever. There's just too much
interdependence. And when they joined the WTO and that was during the Clinton era, there was optimism that doing that would bring them into, make
them the G8, you know, make them play by the rules. They never played by the rules.
So, you know, you could blame Clinton or that administration for misreading the signal, saying, let them in and they'll play like big boys. They
basically screwed all their partners. You can find German source code in their technology, French source code, American source code, Canadian source
code. They just stole it and they built a booming economy around it that they claim their own and they're pretty good.
And right now, the one I'm most worried about is energy. They don't care if they take a power plant that burns coal and build a data center with it.
They're kicking our asses right now in the A.I. race because they have access to more power than we do. And they're not restricted in the same way
we've restricted our economy on using power the same way they are.
SCIUTTO: What is going to be -- is there going to be one miracle power source for A.I.? I mean, you hear a lot of talk, for instance, about these
small nuclear reactors, right, or is really the essential response going to be that it's going to be multiple sources kind of across the board?
O'LEARY: Well, for A.I. compute, for the most, I think, important aspect, nuke power is a long way away, a long way. I would say to make it economic,
let's say under six cents a kilowatt hour, I'm in the business of building data centers. Everybody is -- anybody that's ever invested in real estate
right now, this is where most of the capex is going. You need land, you need power, you need fiber, you need water, you need everything. It's the
most complex. But right now, the game is turning to stranded natural gas.
So, if you can get near a pipeline that's not stranded or get near stranded net gas, which is even cheaper, you then need turbines and then you can
create data centers. Nuke power is too expensive. It's too far away. It's a great source and one day will be important but --
SCIUTTO: But we're not there yet. Yes.
O'LEARY: We're talking 14 years from now. By then, the country with the best A.I., has the best drones will be the most powerful militarily.
SCIUTTO: Right. Let me ask you to help solve a mystery here, right? Because I -- and you know this better because you actually own the
businesses. But I talked to business owners, big and small, trade ministers, et cetera, and all of them are saying that the uncertainty of
the trade war, the cost of the trade war, tariffs, et cetera, are hurting business. But it has not shown up in the headline numbers yet.
It certainly hasn't shown up in the stock market. Is that a lag time? I mean, is -- are there hidden economic weaknesses that you're detecting in
the businesses you're involved in?
[18:50:00]
O'LEARY: Well, let me tell you what investors are thinking about the trade wars around tariffs. The truth is we're not that worried about it because
we believe that what Trump is doing is imposing on the U.S. a VAT tax, a value added tax, a consumption tax. He's calling it a tariff. He will
eventually -- or the administration will, because there are a lot of people negotiating these deals all at the same time, whether it's Lutnick or
Bessent or whatever, it's going to be reciprocal. So, if the French put a 14 percent VAT tax on American products being sold in France or Switzerland
or U.K. or Canada or Mexico, in the end, it'll be reciprocal. And most economies can deal with the reciprocal.
I'll give you an example of a country that can't deal with the situation right now. A 39 percent tariff on Swiss. And that's absurd. That's not
good. They can't do that long-term. It's primarily because everybody wants to buy Swiss gold. They don't want anybody else's gold, including American
investors, including me. I don't want anybody else's gold except that Swiss UBS bar with the assay cert around it. That's what I buy when I buy gold.
Nothing else will do.
And so, this administration wants the Swiss to build smelting plants here, use American gold, and the Swiss are saying, what are you talking about?
It's Swiss gold.
SCIUTTO: Well, you just solved that mystery for me, why the Swiss tariffs were so high. Kevin O'Leary, always good to have you on.
O'LEARY: Great to be here. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for joining. And thanks so much, all of you, for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto. You've been watching "The Brief." Please
do stay with CNN.
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