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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Trump Doesn't Believe Ukraine Will Win War; Tense Meeting Between Trump and Zelenskyy; Trump Denies Ukraine Tomahawk Missiles; Deadly Attacks Test Fragile Israel-Hamas Ceasefire; AWS Says Operations Back Online; Trump Cuts Funding to Colombia. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 20, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington and you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, U.S. President Trump now says he does not believe Ukraine will win the war with Russia after reports of a volatile meeting
with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Colombia recalls its ambassador to the U.S. amid tensions over drug trafficking and military
strikes. I'll speak to the country's former Defense Minister Juan Carlos Pinzon. And the Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners play for the chance
to meet Shohei Ohtani and the L.A. Dodgers in the World Series.
We do begin inside the White House in reports of a heated conversation between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
According to European officials briefed on Friday's meeting, the U.S. president insisted that Ukraine make territorial concessions to Moscow, in
effect freezing the battle lines where they are. It marks yet another shift in the president's thinking. Just last month, he claimed that Ukraine might
be able to win back all the territory taken by force by Russia.
But notably, this latest about-turn came one day after a lengthy phone call between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The pair are now
preparing to meet face-to-face once again, this time in Hungary. On Friday, European officials say President Trump became frustrated and raised his
voice multiple times. Separately, a Ukrainian source characterized the meeting as tense, but this source said there was no shouting. The president
says this now about Ukraine's chances of winning the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They could still win it. I don't think they will, but they could still win it. I never said they would win it. I said
they could win it. Anything can happen. You know, war is a very strange thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Today, President Trump was busy hosting the Australian prime minister, signing a deal for rare earths. Joining me now, Kristen Holmes
from the White House. Kristen, I just wonder how White House officials explain Trump's now frequent reversals. Just at the UNGA a couple of weeks
ago, he said, well, I believe Ukraine might be able to win back all the territory. Now, he says probably not. And notably, that followed the call
with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Do they have an explanation for this?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I'll actually remind you that the first time that he came out and talked about
the fact that he thought Ukraine could get back its territory, that was after a meeting with Zelenskyy. He seems to be going back and forth,
depending on the last person in his ear.
And yes, of course, as we know, the day before the Zelenskyy meeting, President Trump held this two-and-a-half-hour-long phone call with Russian
President Putin. And he came out of it seemingly much tougher on Zelenskyy and Ukraine than he had been, as you said, last month when he had this
meeting with Zelenskyy. Even when we saw that meeting in Alaska after that, we saw this real push to have a meeting with Putin and Zelenskyy. All of
that seems to be off the table now. And now, we're back to this idea of another one-on-one with Putin and Trump. Zelenskyy is nowhere to be found.
And everything we're learning about this meeting, every detail we get, makes it sound like it was more and more tense than we even knew before. I
mean, one of the reasons we know that Putin got in touch with Donald Trump before the Zelenskyy sit-down meeting was because he wanted to talk about
those Tomahawk missiles, those long-range missiles. And Trump had kind of floated this idea or threat that he might give those Tomahawk missiles to
Zelenskyy.
Now, one of the bad things for President Zelenskyy that happened in that meeting was that Trump said he's not doing that. He's not giving them any
of these long-range missiles to help them with the offense. But on top of that, now we know that there was conversations about ceding territory,
which Zelenskyy noted in a press conference afterwards was one of the hardest things and hardest parts of any conversation involving this war,
was this idea that Ukraine would have to give up some of its territory.
But you could see Zelenskyy being far more careful now as he navigates this president, President Trump, who has gone back and forth so many times
between this frustration with Putin, then sitting down with Putin, this frustration with Zelenskyy, then saying Zelenskyy could win the war.
[18:05:00]
It's still really unclear where anything actually stands. And I know that we had this conversation on Friday, but we'll have it again today. This
idea of the meeting between Putin and Trump, a second one-on-one meeting, it's still -- we can't get any answers on what they believe the outcome
will be in terms of a different outcome from what we already saw.
But I will tell you this, we know that there have already been conversations with high-level advisers, including Sergey Lavrov on the
Russia side and Marco Rubio, secretary of state, on the American side. They do want to go into another meeting at least more prepared than they were
last time. They haven't done any of those kinds of high-level preparations. They went in there with President Trump, saying he just wanted to look
Putin in the eye. Clearly now, at least they want to get something or at least have a setup, a structure to get something out of this second
meeting.
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes at the White House, thank you. So, what do Ukrainians think of all this? Joining me now, Halyna Yanchenko, a member of
the Ukrainian parliament, the head of the Investment Task Force for Defense Industry there. Good to have you back. Thanks so much for joining.
HALYNA YANCHENKO, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER AND HEAD, INVESTMENT TASK FORCE FOR DEFENSE SECURITY: Hi.
SCIUTTO: It must be difficult for you and your fellow Ukrainians to keep track of President Trump's positions regarding the war. Do you fear that
after this latest reversal, that he's preparing to abandon Ukraine?
YANCHENKO: Well, it's really difficult to assess it now. Although I noticed some changes in his rhetoric starting this July. Basically, after
inauguration, President Trump has declared his very clear goal to finish the unprovoked war of Russia in Ukraine. And while for the first six months
he was trying to actually press Ukraine, actually press the victim of unprovoked war, he was not reaching his goal, because he basically simply
strengthened the aggressor, giving him more power, more confidence in what he's doing.
So -- but in July, personally, I saw some changes in the rhetorics of President Trump. So, he started talking about secondary sanctions against
the partners of Russia, like China, India, but actually we should understand that Russia was buying all this time to form a new military and
economic alliance of authoritarian regimes across the world. And we are not limiting it to China and India only, but we also talk about North Korea,
which is a shame to my mind, and we are talking about Iran. And this military economic alliance against the civilized world is becoming stronger
and stronger day after day.
So, while in July, the rhetorics of President Trump has changed and he has started to talk about secondary sanctions, we also saw the clear
difference, the clear changes in the behavior and strategy of President Putin, the Russian aggressor. So, he agreed to actually travel to Alaska
and start discussing the possible end of the war. While earlier, he was absolutely clear that he's not going to do anything right.
SCIUTTO: Right.
YANCHENKO: So, I believe that Putin and Russia understand only one language, is a language of power. So, the clear strategy to finish this war
is to actually implement the power, the powerful instruments that U.S. and President Trump have in their hands.
SCIUTTO: But are you seeing that? Are you seeing Trump pressure him? Because he's talked about further sanctions. He hasn't applied them. He
talked about giving Ukraine more capable weapons like the Tomahawk, he's not giving them. Is Trump showing the necessary strength?
YANCHENKO: I see the statements that he's doing, and these statements definitely help. But it's very important to make sure that these statements
remain the same, first of all. And second of all, it's very important to make sure that statements actually turn into real actions. So, if we are
talking about a very certain goal, and the goal is to finish the Russian war in Ukraine, and I believe we share this goal, Ukrainians really want
this war to be over.
I'm telling you, as a person who is talking to you from Kyiv now, we are living under daily shelling. We don't sleep at night because in 2:00 a.m.
or 3:00 a.m. or 4 :00a.m. the air alarm is starting to actually, you know, making this crazy, annoying noise.
[18:10:00]
So, we have to wake up in the middle of night and go either to shelters or to corridor to make sure that we are protected at least by two walls. It's
crazy to live in these conditions.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Of course.
YANCHENKO: So, Ukraine definitely wants this war to be over. And if President Trump declares that this is his goals, then we should move along.
And he should help the victim and push against aggressor. This is an only victorious strategy. So, I really hope that we will see changes not only in
rhetorics but also in actions.
SCIUTTO: It seems that the price President Trump is demanding from Ukraine to end the war is for Ukraine to give up territory and perhaps even more
territory than it's already lost. The discussion apparently was of giving up all of the eastern Donbas region. You've told me in the past that this
is not just land we're talking about. We're talking about people who live on that land. Is giving up territory an acceptable price for peace for you?
YANCHENKO: No, it's absolutely not acceptable because of many reasons. First of all, of course, we are talking not only about square kilometers
or, you know, just territory, just land, we are talking about settlements, we are talking about cities and villages with people living there with
their homes. So, we can't, you know, trade people. This is absolutely unacceptable.
But in terms of logic, it also makes absolutely no sense. If we are talking about finishing the war, then aggressor should be punished and not
rewarded. And if we are talking about, you know, peace negotiations when aggressor receives more than he has at the moment, this is -- it looks like
a rewarding aggressor.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
YANCHENKO: And if you reward a bully, he will simply go on with his absolutely shameful behavior. So, it will not finish the war. This is a
wrong strategy. It leads to nowhere. He should be punished. This is clear. This is fair after all. And this is about long-term solutions.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, Halyna Yanchenko, appreciate you joining again. And also, I know given the time there, you're approaching those hours in the
middle of the night when the attacks typically come. I hope it's a safe and quiet night for you.
YANCHENKO: Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: Well, Israel and Hamas are both affirming their commitment to the ceasefire in Gaza as it may survive its first major test. Israel rained
down missiles on Gaza over the weekend after it accused Hamas of killing two of its soldiers in Gaza. Both Hamas and its military wing denied
responsibility.
Two of the deal's architects, the American Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, attended lengthy meetings with IDF generals. According to an Israeli
source, Vice President J.D. Vance is now on his way to the region as well. Two, he hopes, push the next phase of the agreement.
Joining me now, Muhammad Shehada, visiting fellow with the European Council on Foreign Relations. Mohammad, good to have you back.
MUHAMMAD SHEHADA, VISITING FELLOW, EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, we are, well, less than two weeks into the ceasefire deal. We've already seen an exchange of fire and deaths. Is the ceasefire holding
in your view?
SHEHADA: It is holding so far, but we're seeing basically Israel, Prime Minister Netanyahu, is trying to test boundaries. He's exploring how much
he can get away with before President Trump pulls back and sort of like puts pressure on the Israelis to abide by the agreement's details. The
ceasefire as an overall agreement is still there. The details of it, that's where the devil lies.
So, we see Israel, for example, preventing reconstruction in Gaza completely, 100 percent no reconstruction in any shape or form is allowed
until now. Israel is still closing the Rafah Border Crossing that is Gaza's main gateway to the world for average people to go out to seek medical
treatment or with loved ones.
And you see the IDF, since the start of the ceasefire, they killed over 80 Palestinians. If you have -- that means an average eight people per day are
killed by Israel in Gaza during the ceasefire, if you have eight people killed in the U.S., you would call that a massacre or a mass shooting, in
(INAUDIBLE) doesn't even make headlines.
And you have preventing people from returning to their homes in over 58 percent of Gaza. And in that depopulated half, Israeli vehicles are
demolishing homes actively, one building at the time. So, there is this series of violations that's under the radar.
SCIUTTO: I wonder if you fear that this is setting a precedent for how this ceasefire will go forward, because if you look at southern Lebanon, we
have something of a precedent.
[18:15:00]
A ceasefire, but Israel continues to carry out attacks there, really without protest from the U.S. or other parties in the region. Do you fear
Israel might get the same leeway, as it were, in Gaza going forward?
SHEHADA: We are seeing Lebanonization (ph) process of Gaza. Israeli officials are not shy about it. A spokesperson of the Likud on the day that
President Trump gave his speech to Israel's parliament, the Knesset, the Likud spokesperson was very open that Israel will try to do the exact same
thing that it's doing in Lebanon, a ceasefire that one side abides by, and then the IDF goes in and bombs specific targets, and nobody bothers with
those details.
But I don't have to look to Lebanon. I personally lived through three Israeli wars in Gaza, 10 military operations, and two planned invasions.
So, this is not just deja vu. For me, this is like Groundhog Day. Each one of those military operations, each one of those wars ended with a ceasefire
agreement that Israel, as soon as the ceasefire entered into effect, Israel violated it in every way that it wanted and got away with it.
SCIUTTO: Yes. You wrote a piece a few weeks ago that highlights, in your view, the absence of clear enforceable guarantees in Trump's broader peace
plan. What does that mean for the hoped-for next phase of this ceasefire and peace plan? Do you see it as realistically coming to be?
SHEHADA: Well, there are two main topics right now that need immediate address to see if the ceasefire would hold or not. Number one is the
Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. The IDF is still controlling 58 percent of Gaza, squeezing 2.4 million people in an area smaller than Brooklyn,
without any buildings there. They're just living in tents. And the withdrawal under the Trump plan is left to the full discretion of the
Israelis. They get to decide when, how, how much, or if they withdraw at all.
The other file is the disarmament of Hamas. And again, you have the devil in the detail here. Hamas is persuaded to agree to decommissioning
offensive weaponry, something like Northern Ireland. Decommissioning is different from disarmament in the sense that disarmament means
capitulation, surrender, breaking the sword, bending the knee. Decommissioning is gradual. It's incremental. It entails a political
process.
And it's basically -- if you look at the Good Friday Agreement, it was not an immediate disarmament, it took up to 10 years of decommissioning. You
basically have full cessation of hostilities. Weapons are put in warehouses or depots. And then, you have a political process rolling through which
disarmament becomes the outcome of peace rather than the prerequisite of it.
On the other side, you have Israel insisting on full disarmament of Hamas immediately as a prerequisite to anything, including reconstruction. And
that is likely to blow up the deal, even though it's still in the infancy.
SCIUTTO: Muhammad Shehada, we know you'll be watching closely. Thanks so much for joining.
SHEHADA: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, hundreds of billions of dollars. That's one estimate of the cost of today's massive global internet outage, the
very latest on the Amazon Web Services meltdown, which I'm sure some of you experience like me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." In today's Business Breakout, green arrows across the board on Wall Street, ahead of earnings reports this week
from firms such as Netflix and Intel. Tech stocks among the best performers. Apple shares hit record highs for the first time this year on
strong iPhone sales. It finished up, as you can see there, almost 4 percent. Gold also had another strong session, rising almost 4 percent
after hitting record highs last week. Thing is, gold is traditionally a safe haven asset, and let's say it's highly unusual that both stocks and
gold rallying at the same time. What is happening?
Checking some of today's other business headlines. Chinese economy continues to feel the effects of the U.S.-China trade war. China says its
economy grew at a 4.8 percent annual pace in the third quarter, the slowest pace of growth for the world's second-largest economy since last year. In
addition to trade, China's economy has been hit by an ongoing property slump as well as reluctant consumers. Beijing says it still expects to hit
its 5 percent growth target for all of 2025. We'll see.
The Argentine peso weakened further on Monday, despite support measures and a heck of a lot of money from the Trump administration. The U.S. began
buying pesos earlier this month. Argentina's central bank now says it signed a $20 billion exchange rate deal with the U.S. Treasury. All this
ahead of make-or-break midterm elections next week for the president, Javier Milei, a Trump ally who pledged to get the economy back on track.
Trump, by the way, has said that money's only coming if his party wins the midterms.
The acting head of NASA says he's ready to open up the bidding process for the moon landing mission, SpaceX, has the NASA contract to land humans on
the moon by 2027. But Sean Duffy says Elon Musk's firm is falling behind schedule. And he says he's ready to open the contract to other companies,
including Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin. NASA has not landed an astronaut on the moon in more than 50 years.
Amazon Web Services says its operations are mostly back online after a massive global outage affecting many millions of people. AWS thought it had
everything sorted out earlier in the day, but problems continue to crop up. I certainly noticed them on lots of apps.
Nearly every corner of the internet has been affected, including airline systems, banking apps, social networks as well. The outage is a reminder of
just how fragile and prone to problems infrastructure -- internet infrastructure can be. The internet monitoring firm Catchpoint says the
total cost of the outage could reach hundreds of billions of dollars.
Clare Duffy joins me now. First of all, is it correct to say the outage is fixed because there's still some apps on my phone that aren't working?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes. Look, I think that Amazon says that things are back online. Hopefully that is the case, given the extreme
disruption that we've seen today. But part of the problem and why this dragged on today was there was sort of a chain of problems. There was one
issue that cropped up early this morning. Amazon said it addressed that issue. It started to bring customers back online. That caused another
issue.
Now, as of about two hours ago, Amazon says its systems are mostly back online. But again, you may see some, you know, ongoing outages, issues with
individual websites as they try to get back up and running as well. And I think the other piece of understanding why the impact was so widespread
today is really understanding what AWS is because it does sit at the heart of so much of the internet.
In the early days of the internet, companies that wanted to have websites or apps would host those on their own computers or servers. But now,
millions of companies basically rent server space from Amazon and operate their websites and their apps on Amazon servers. And most of the time, that
is easier, it's cheaper, it's often more secure, unless you have an outage like today.
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And then, as you said, Jim, you get a sense of just how fragile the ecosystem can be when we're so reliant on this small number of internet
infrastructure providers. I mean, just to name a few of the companies that were impacted by these outages today, United and Delta Airlines, we saw
some flight delays. Customers were unable to access their banking information on PayPal or Venmo. You saw, I was unable to do the Wordle this
morning. That's a problem for me. People were unable to access their banking information or to access the Starbucks app to order their coffee.
And that is part of the reason why this expected impact of this on businesses is expected to be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. It's
because consumers weren't able to spend money normally. People weren't able to do their jobs as they normally would. And that is why we've seen such
significant impact. So, hopefully, these systems do indeed stay online, you know, as per this latest Amazon update.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, the Starbucks app was the first one I noticed this morning, but a whole bunch of others. Just very quickly, do we know what
caused this?
DUFFY: We don't yet have a really good sense of what exactly caused this. Again, Amazon sort of talked about the different parts of its services that
had interruptions today, but we do expect them to go back and do a deeper investigation and hopefully to give customers some more information about
what went wrong here.
Amazon is the largest player in the cloud computing services business. It has about 37 percent of the market, but you have to imagine that it's, the
other competing businesses are going to be watching this carefully to see if there's an opportunity to take some of Amazon's market share after this
major outage today.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, listen, in the military as well, right? I mean, DoD uses AWS. Clare Duffy, thanks so much.
Straight ahead, Trump cuts funding to Colombia after the country's president accuses the U.S. of murder. I'm going to speak to one of
Colombia's opposition leaders right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
[18:30:00]
President Trump has made a new reversal on how he believes to settle the war between Russia and Ukraine. Sources say he's now insisting that Ukraine
make territorial concessions to Russia for the war to end. A notable change from just a month ago when he posted that he thought Ukraine was, quote,
"in a position to fight and win" all the territory back, quote, "in its original form." Those were Trump's words. This follows a lengthy phone call
last week between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, who he is now preparing to meet face-to-face again in Budapest later this month.
President Trump is threatening to eradicate Hamas if it violates the Gaza ceasefire. He was responding to a reporter's question about the killing of
two Israeli soldiers on Sunday, an attack Hamas claims it was not involved in. A source tells CNN U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and the president's
son-in-law Jared Kushner met earlier with IDF generals in Tel Aviv. They've also met with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
Amazon says its web systems are now mostly back online after a major outage caused widespread disruption around the world. Online services began
reporting issues overnight. They began to recover before more companies experienced disruption. Amazon Web Services says the issue had to do with a
system that monitors how much load is on its network. AWS is the biggest provider of cloud services.
President Trump is now escalating tensions with Colombia after the Colombian president, Gustavo Petro, criticized deadly U.S. strikes on
alleged drug smugglers. Petro called the strikes, quote, "murder." Trump announced the U.S. will ramp up tariffs and cut off payments to Colombia.
The U.S. has already provided more than $200 million to Colombia this fiscal year. It is also by far the biggest backer of Colombian security,
sending billions of dollars there every year.
The U.S. has now killed some 30 people across seven strikes like this one on drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean. Some of those were Colombian
citizens. Joining me now, former Colombian minister of defense and former ambassador to the U.S., Juan Carlos Pinzon. Thanks so much for joining.
JUAN CARLOS PINZON, FORMER COLOMBIAN MINISTER OF DEFENSE AND FORMER COLOMBIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, thank you so much, Jim. Thank you
for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, first of all, as you've been watching these strikes, are they, in your view, a violation of Colombia's sovereignty?
PINZON: Well, let me put it this way. Drug traffickers and criminals do not have borders. They violate all kinds of borders. And by the way, with
the money they produce, what they do is basically create violence against Colombians and destroy your country and destroy the Amazon and, by the way,
attack Colombian armed forces. And that's really the problem.
So, at the end, anything that is done to defeat organized crime, terrorism, or those kind of groups is something that is positive at the end for our
own country.
SCIUTTO: It's positive even if you're not certain that these are drug traffickers trafficking drugs? I mean, the question becomes, should there
be a legal process before the U.S. carries out deadly strikes?
PINZON: Well, there's, you know, a full set of international humanitarian law, among other things, that define who a threat can be, who cannot -- and
what they are doing. By the way, usually these kind of guys present themselves a different thing of who they are. They don't keep saying, hey,
I'm a drug trafficker, I'm a bad guy, I'm a criminal, I'm a terrorist. They don't do that. They just present themselves as being good citizens in a big
boat full of drugs, typically.
So, yes, you know, there's an intelligence process, there's a legal process that always needs to be followed, but I have no any doubt that many of
these cases, if not all, are related to drug trafficking and criminals.
SCIUTTO: Tell me about President Gustavo Petro's response to these strikes so far. Do you agree with those responses? He called these attacks murder.
PINZON: I think he has been justifying a lot of criminals in Colombia, and that's a problem now for my country. He has been aligning with Maduro's
regime, which is a big issue for us. You know, Maduro's regime has been hosting terrorists and criminals inside his territory to do things against
Colombians. So, that's the first thing.
Second, he has created a policy called Total Peace, Paz Total in Spanish, that implies that criminals and terrorists are getting benefits with the
hope of peace, but at the end getting all kinds of alternatives. And thirdly, he has justified in public the idea of the business of cocaine and
has compared that even to oil or to sugar, just to mention some. So, of course, that has created a different stance for Colombia.
[18:35:00]
Colombia for years was the country that fought harder and more organized crime than any other country in the world. We were the example to the
world. And, of course, we have presented a lot of sacrifice. By the way, still today, our military, our soldiers are fighting for that kind of -- or
to those kinds of criminals.
But the bad news is that our president, the president of Colombia, hasn't really complied to, you know, fight them. And the country has justified
that. And that has created this very complicated scenario for Colombia that we never thought we were going to have it, but here we are.
SCIUTTO: Do the Colombian people, in your view, cheer or support these attacks by the American military?
PINZON: What I would say is that the majority of Colombians are really worried about what is going on in terms of deterioration of security. We're
having the largest deterioration in security in decades. I can tell you that we have today the largest production of cocaine in history, the
largest production of illegal gold in history, the largest levels of extortion. Homicide is going back, and other elements of security are
deteriorating.
Not to tell that our armed forces, that used to be the strongest in the Western Hemisphere after the U.S., are now really weakened and in a very
difficult position. So, that's a little bit of the reality that Colombians are perceiving and suffering these days.
So, I wish our president can react and can understand that his cooperation with the United States, with other countries, with the world is the best
way to, you know, fight and diminish crime, but not by allowing them to expand, which is sadly what is happening.
SCIUTTO: Colombia, of course, has national elections just eight months away. Are you planning to challenge the Colombian president in those
elections?
PINZON: I'm thinking seriously on doing that. You know, a lot of people have called me into that, mainly because of the deterioration in security,
in the economy, in the health care system. And because of that, I feel that responsibility on my shoulders. And I feel that I have to do anything for
my country.
By the way, this is the reason why I'm here today in Washington, because I had to come to Washington because the Colombian government has no access
anymore to do things to protect our people. So, if tariffs come to my people, it's going to be bad. If security support is going to be cut, it's
going to be bad for our country. So, I'm here to fight for Colombians and to defend Colombians' interests. That's what I'm here for.
SCIUTTO: If you were to be elected, and granted this is some time from now, would you, under your leadership with Colombia, cooperate with Donald
Trump's and these U.S. military strikes on cartels in the region, including those that carry Colombians?
PINZON: Let me put it this way. Probably they will not be needed, because we will be fighting the terrorists and the criminals inside Colombia, as we
did in my time as minister of defense. We did that before. You know, Colombia was the most successful country fighting terrorism and crime. And
sadly, that looks like now ancient history. We've got to go back to protect our people. We've got to go back to provide to our people the best
opportunities.
And out of security, what you create is the conditions for economic prosperity. Colombia is full of minerals, full of water, full of natural
resources, an incredible capacity to produce food to the world. So, what we have to create is this sense of future and prosperity. We can do that with
some level of law and order, with some level of security for Colombians. And that's what we have lost.
SCIUTTO: Juan Carlos Pinzon, Colombian opposition leader, as you say, former minister of defense, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate
it.
PINZON: Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Well, China's Communist Party, elites kicking off a multi-day meeting to approve the country's plan for the next five years. It's a five-
year plan. Leader Xi Jinping delivered a speech outlining the draft proposals on the opening day. The plan expected to emphasize China's
economic security and tech innovation, including, crucially, artificial intelligence. This comes ahead of a potential meeting with the U.S.
president on the sidelines of the APEC summit in South Korea later this month.
Joining me now from Hong Kong, Simone McCarthy. These five-year plans, of course, they come every five years. I wonder, how do they address the trade
war with the U.S.?
SIMONE MCCARTHY, CNN SENIOR CHINA REPORTER: Well, this five-year plan is very much about China's broader, overarching economic vision. And Chinese
leader Xi Jinping has a vision to restore China's national rejuvenation, to make it both a power on the global stage, as well as prosperous within the
country itself.
And so, as Chinese leaders are looking out at this global environment, they're seeing what they would call external risks. And of course, Jim,
that's kind of an oblique Communist Party speak for these problems that the United States is throwing up, in terms of tariffs, in terms of tech
controls. And really, the way that they want to address that is through self-sufficiency.
[18:40:00]
And so, we see that very much with this technological push for innovation. That is absolutely not new. We've seen that especially over the past five
years in terms of artificial intelligence, semiconductors, quantum computing, and then on the industrial side, with robotics and smart
manufacturing. But what they really see is that they need to be able to make those innovations at home. They do not want to need to rely on U.S.
technologies, especially as the United States continues to expand those export controls. And so, that's why we're seeing that as a fundamental.
But of course, it's also about the domestic economy and making sure that that is strong as well. China's facing this persistent property sector
slump. It has high youth unemployment, there's deflation. And so, a real question is also going to be, what are Chinese leaders going to do to
address those issues?
And the tech side of it is something that we're clear on. They've been -- the messaging on that has been so consistent. What we understand less about
is whether or not they're going to make meaningful changes to really bolster the domestic economy, in particular in terms of consumer
confidence, because consumption really has been flagging. We see deflationary pressures.
And so, all of that together is the big picture for how these leaders that are gathering in Beijing this week think that they will be able to make the
country strong enough to withstand the challenges from the trade war, even if that's not explicitly their focus. It's absolutely the subtext and the
context within which all of these discussions and planning are happening.
SCIUTTO: Days before the event, China announced the expulsion of its number two general, eight other senior military figures. This is part of a
purge we've seen carried out over months and years under Xi Jinping's leadership. What does it say about his grip on power and his intentions
with these purges?
MCCARTHY: Well, certainly these meetings that we're seeing in Beijing, this one is known as the fourth plenum, they're always a time when China
watchers are looking closely to understand more about the inner workings of the Communist Party. And that has been absolutely heightened in the wake of
this ongoing military purge. The removal of He Weidong, that second ranking general that you mentioned, as well as Miao Hua, those were both members of
China's Central Military Commission. That is the body, which is chaired by Chinese leader Xi Jinping, that oversees the 2 million strong PLA.
So, these are incredibly important figures. He was the highest-level casualty in the anti-corruption purge on the military that we've seen thus
far. But, you know, some analysts will say, OK, does this affect China's operability from a military perspective? But I think what it really is
signaling is Chinese leader Xi Jinping's tight control and his confidence.
Because both He and Miao, these are figures that have longstanding relationships with Xi Jinping. And yet he has the confidence to show that,
OK, no one is above reproach here, and that I -- and that he has no problem to take down these officials if he feels as though they're not going along
with the vision that he's seeking out for China and its modernization of its military.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and no one can challenge him for part of the message, it seems to. Simone McCarthy, thanks so much.
MCCARTHY: Thanks so much, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Coming up after the break, Paris coming to terms with a brazen daylight robbery of historic jewels snatched from the Louvre in a massive
security lapse. It's an amazing story. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: The famous Louvre Museum in Paris remained closed on Monday, this after robbers made off with multiple French crown jewels, literally dating
from the Napoleonic era. On Sunday, in broad daylight, they used a truck- mounted ladder to access a window. They completed the heist in just seven minutes, exposing massive security failures at the world's arguably most
famous museum. Experts warn the historic jewelry stolen could never be found. Isa Soares reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diversion. Make a lot of noise over there. So, over here in this room, you can take $100 million off the wall and waltz right
out the front door.
ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No diversion was needed for the four masked robbers who broke into the Louvre Museum in
Paris on Sunday morning, stealing priceless French crown jewels in broad daylight just minutes after the world's largest museum opened its doors.
The Louvre remained closed on Monday as France grappled with one question, how could the world's most visited museum be robbed with such brazen
audacity? It was a plot that played out like a Hollywood movie. Around 9:30 a.m. on Sunday, four thieves posing as workers wearing yellow vests used a
moving elevator ladder to reach the second-floor balcony of the museum. The perpetrators then forced open a window using an angle grinder and entered
the Apollo Gallery, sawing open the display location for the treasures of the French crown jewels.
As alarm bells rang, they grabbed nine of the Louvre's most valuable treasures, the priceless 19th-century French crown jewels, among them a
dazzling crown adorned with 24 sapphires, 1,083 diamonds. Also stolen, a diamond and sapphire necklace and a pair of earrings, seen here in this
painting of Queen Marie Amelie in 1836, and a glittering bow with more than 2,000 diamonds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clever to use a cherry picker and a glass cutter to steal priceless -- well, sentimentally priceless jewels from the Louvre.
The fact that it was done in daylight is also astounding.
SOARES (voice-over): It took only seven minutes for the robbers to re- emerge with nine pieces of jewelry, apparently from the same window.
GERALD DARMANIN, FRENCH JUSTICE MINISTER (through translator): What shows we failed, because someone was able to put up an elevator truck in the open
in the streets of Paris, have people walk up for a few minutes and take priceless jewels and give France a deplorable image.
SOARES (voice-over): Thankfully, one of the most precious items, a crown Napoleon gave his wife, Empress Eugenie, was dropped by the thieves as they
sped away on high-powered scooters along the banks of the Seine. French police says the first 48 hours are key to track down the thieves, who, so
far, are still on the run.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Quite a heist, just remarkable. Our thanks to Isa Soares. Coming up on "The Brief", baseball fans around the world gearing up for a decisive
Game 7 between the Toronto Blue Jays and the Seattle Mariners. The winner heads to the World Series to play a guy named Shohei Ohtani. Our preview is
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Time now for baseball. The Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners will face off in just about an hour to decide who will head to the World
Series. The winner faces some guy named Shohei Ohtani and the Los Angeles Dodgers for the MLB Championship beginning this Friday. We call it the
World Series.
In game four of the National League Championship Series last week, Ohtani hit, in one game, three home runs while also pitching six scoreless innings
from the mound and striking out 10. He became only the third player ever to hit three home runs in a game while also pitching. He's the first ever to
do that in a postseason game, however. Even baseball legend Babe Ruth never did the same.
Joining me now, Levi Weaver, staff writer for The Athletic, author of the Windup newsletter. So, listen, man, you know, I'm a Mets fan, so I got to
suffer through Dodgers games, and boy, are they good, and so on. We already knew he was good. We already knew he was great, OK? He's a two-way player.
But to hit three home runs in a playoff game, pitch six innings, which is, by the way, a lifetime in baseball these days, right, and 10 strikeouts. I
mean, literally never -- does anything compare, is the question?
LEVI WEAVER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATHLETIC: No. I mean, that's not a very interesting answer when I'm being interviewed, but it's no. The closest I
could come up with. I decided that I was going to stop looking at baseball games, because I was like, I don't know. Does it -- you know, Shawn Green
and Nick Kurtz have each hit four home runs in a game and had 19 total bases. Does that count? Well, no, they didn't pitch at all. And, you know,
Don Larsen threw a perfect game in the World Series. Does that count? Well, he went 0 for 2 at the plate in that game. He didn't really hit nothing.
So, it's the only thing like it in baseball.
And the closest thing I've been able to come up with is in football. There was a game in 1998 where Deion Sanders scored a touchdown on a punt return,
an interception and a reception.
SCIUTTO: Right.
WEAVER: Pretty cool. Like that's about the closest thing I can come up with. But in baseball, no, nothing.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the thing is -- you know, the two-way player in football went away a long time. It's just hard for people to, like, maintain, you
know, the skill and endurance and all that stuff on the field. I mean, think about Babe Ruth, right? So, Babe Ruth, and to your credit, The
Athletic call this up, he did hit two home runs in a game. He was pitching, not a playoff game, only had one strikeout. The other thing about Babe
Ruth, right, he eventually stopped pitching, right?
Now, Ohtani had just focused on hitting a whole bunch of home runs. I mean, how long does Ohtani have to keep this up to be the greatest player ever,
as opposed to just having a game and a great career to be the greatest player ever?
WEAVER: Yes. Yes. I think we're seeing the greatest snapshot probably ever. I don't know -- there's never been a player that has done what he's
done over the last few years. And last year, when he was recovering from surgery and wasn't able to pitch, oh, by the way, he had a 50-50 season, 50
home runs, 50 stolen bases. That's never been done before, you know?
So, from a greatest, you know, two- to-three-year or maybe even four-to- five-year window, I think we're already there.
[18:55:00]
As far as the greatest player of all time, I mean, there haven't been any steroid allegations. So, there are going to be some people who say he's
already surpassed Barry Bonds.
SCIUTTO: Right.
WEAVER: I think it will take another five, seven, eight years just to compile the sort of numbers that really allow him to match up against these
guys who have, you know, 600, 700 home runs or, you know, I don't think he's going to get to 3,000 strikeouts. That's out of the picture. But just
the fact that he's been so effective when he has pitched, this is -- I mean, it's a rough estimate, yes. Five or seven years, I think you really
start to have the conversation about him legitimately being the best of all time.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And maybe mounting up championships, right. That's another distinguisher. Well, I'll tell you, as a Mets fan that got my team outbid,
you know, got outbid on Shohei Ohtani. It hurts. But even I will say it's a joy to watch. And I'm sure you feel the same way. Levi Weaver, thanks so
much for joining.
WEAVER: Absolutely.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much, all of you, for joining us. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
