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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

Maduro Calls for Peace Amid Tensions with the U.S.; House to Vote Next Week on Release of Epstein Files; Russians Advance in Southeast Ukraine; Israeli Settles Torch West Bank Mosque; BBC Apologizes to Trump Over Misleading Edit; Latvia Bolsters Defenses Along Borders with Russia, Belarus. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 13, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York, and you're watching "The

Brief."

Just ahead this hour, Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro tells CNN he wants peace and urges the U.S. to avoid waging endless wars. The BBC

apologizes directly to President Trump for misleading edits to a speech he made before the January 6th attack on the capital. And I visit NATO forces

in Latvia as they test some of their most advanced weapons in the face of a threat from Russia.

We begin, though, in Caracas, where CNN's Stefano Pozzebon spoke to Venezuela's president, Nicolas Maduro, just a short while ago, the

president urging an end to what he calls endless wars. He was speaking at a rally surrounded by supporters. As more U.S. warships enter the waters

around Latin America, Washington says it is targeting drug vessels. Caracas believes, however, the U.S. is trying to force regime change.

Stefano joins me now live from Caracas. Tell us what President Maduro told you.

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Jim, well, what he actually said is that he wants peace with the United States, so I've asked him if he had a

message in particular for President Donald Trump, and he responded in English saying that his message, and I quote him, is peace, peace, peace.

But what is most stunning, perhaps, what is most important to highlight in this situation is that this interview was definitely not agreed upon. He

was coming onto a march of his supporters in Caracas.

We were there from the early hours of today, Thursday, to try to speak. We wanted to speak with Maduro's supporters. We were not expecting him to

arrive there. Take a look at how it unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON (through translator): President, are you concerned about the possible aggression?

NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We're focused on the people, governing with peace, with these young people building.

POZZEBON (through translator): What is your message to the people of the United States, President?

MADURO (through translator): We unite for the peace of the continent. No more endless wars, no more unjust wars, no more Libya, no more Afghanistan.

POZZEBON (through translator): Do you have a message for President Trump?

MADURO (through translator): My message is, yes, peace, yes, peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: Like I was saying, Jim, what is important to highlight is the context of where this happened, that Maduro is not just the leader of this

country, but he's also a man that has a $50 million bounty on his head from the U.S. Department of Justice.

I think that what he tried to portray with that appearance, not just with us, but an appearance on the streets of Caracas, surrounded by his

supporters who are ultimately regular people without, frankly, too much security around. Because I was able to overcome the circles of security and

get too close to him when he recognized me.

Well, it shows you that perhaps he's not as worried as somebody in the White House would want him to be, and that he's not afraid to take a bold

move, to make a bold move, to be surrounded out in the open. For weeks, we've heard that Maduro was indeed only appearing in, for example,

hospitals or hotels, in a very controlled environment. That environment was not controlled at all, and that is not the environment that you would

expect a leader who is preparing for a war to be, frankly, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I wonder, Stefano, when you speak to the people of Caracas, do they believe that they're on the precipice of a war with the U.S., or at

least military action by the U.S.?

POZZEBON: Well, that, I think, Jim, is the biggest distinction that we need to make. Like not many people here have been here in Caracas since October

19. And when you speak with Venezuelans, both close to the government, opposed to the government, higher-end people who have contacts and sources

with the powers that be, but also just regular people on the street.

[18:05:00]

Nobody really believes that we are on the precipice of a war with the United States, because everybody agrees that Donald Trump is not a

president that would condone, for example, an invasion or a massive military operation here.

But there is definitely the feeling that something will happen in the next few days and weeks, perhaps a targeted attack, the sort of kinetic strikes

that we have seen at sea in the last three months, or perhaps the same targeted attacks that we have seen Trump to be willing to operate,

especially if you think of what happened in Iran just a few months ago with that dropping of a bomb on Iranian nuclear facilities.

Well, I think that there is definitely the feeling that something is building up. Today, by the way, the U.S. Secretary of Defense announced the

launch of a new operation, Southern Spear, Jim, to give it a name to what the U.S. are trying to accomplish in the Southern Caribbean with the

deployment of warships and weapons surrounding the coast of Venezuela, allegedly to stem drug trafficking coming out of Venezuela. But many people

here believe it's to put pressure on Nicolas Maduro himself.

But as you could have seen from that video, he doesn't look like he is bending to any pressure coming down from Washington at the moment, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Stefano Pozzebon in Caracas, thanks so much. Now, back here in the U.S. to the continuing and growing fallout from convicted sex offender

Jeffrey Epstein's emails. Members of the U.S. Congress have successfully forced a vote now to release all of the files from the late financier and

sex trafficker. Speaker Mike Johnson has set the vote for next week earlier than expected.

House leaders are bracing themselves for a large number of Republicans to break ranks and vote for what is a bipartisan bill. However, even if it

does pass the House, it still needs to pass the Republican-led Senate. Then the president must sign it. That's a lot of obstacles there.

The House Oversight Committee released thousands of pages of Epstein documents this week. Several of them include emails mentioning Donald

Trump, a former friend of Epstein's. Epstein claimed in one email that the president, quote, "knew about the girls," apparently a reference to Epstein

poaching young women who worked at the president's Mar-a-Lago club. We should note that President Trump has not been accused of any crime related

to the Epstein scandal.

Joining me now, Stephen Collinson. And he's written an analysis on how Trump has been unable to escape the Epstein scandal so far. Stephen joins

me now. Stephen, in your piece, you say that the overbearing White House response, which has included enormous pressure. I mean, we hear about

Republican Congresswomen taken into the Situation Room to be pressured to change their votes. You say that that's made it worse for the White House.

Tell us how.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Basically, because it looks like the White House and President Trump has something to hide. Every

time that Trump's officials, including in the Justice Department, have tried to make this go away, it's backfired. And they've made this more of a

controversy.

I'm thinking, for example, of the interview that the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, conducted with Epstein's former accomplice,

Ghislaine Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year prison sentence. That made it look as though the White House was trying to get Ghislaine Maxwell to get

Donald Trump off the hook here.

What has been very interesting in the last few days is the growth of the support among Republican senators -- Republican members of the House of

Representatives to have a vote on this issue. It now looks, as you were saying, there's going to be a substantial revolt against the president in

the House. That is exceedingly unusual over the span of Trump's two presidencies, and that is going to send a real message. And it does start

to get very difficult to see, as a political matter, how the president can make this go away.

SCIUTTO: You also draw parallels, really contrasts, between Washington and London, where, of course, in the U.K., we've seen a member of the royal

family, right, brought down by this. President Trump, still, of course, president here, and has managed for now to escape costs. And we should note

again that the president has not been accused of criminal wrongdoing.

But to your point, the administration's made a great effort to keep this under wraps, despite prior to the election talking a lot about releasing

all these files.

COLLINSON: Right. And that is what actually caused a lot of this political nightmare for the White House. The president said in an offhand remark in

last year's campaign that he would release the Epstein files. Attorney General Pam Bondi said on television shortly after taking the job that she

would release the Epstein files. And then she and the FBI turned around a few weeks later and said, well, there's nothing to see here. That gave this

situation real critical momentum to turn into this real political thorn in the White House's side.

[18:10:00]

I think what's going to be interesting to see now, as you alluded to, is what's going to happen in the Senate. A lot of us believe that even if this

did pass the House, it would go to the Senate and die. It would be easy for the Senate majority leader, John Thune, not to take this up.

There is going to be, if there's a very big -- even a veto proof vote in the House, there's going to be a great deal of pressure growing on the

Senate to bring this up. I was listening to Louisiana Republican Senator John Kennedy on CNN's domestic feed earlier, and he was saying that the

senators haven't really talked about this, but he intimated that he thought it was going to be very difficult for the president to quell this

controversy, whether that turns into enough votes to get this through the Senate is another issue.

But I think what House Speaker Mike Johnson has done today, he's admitted defeat and decided, OK, we have to get this out of the House as quickly as

possible because we're going to lose the vote. And it seems like the White House strategy now is to try and send this to the Senate in the hope that

it will die over the weeks and months to come.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching. You have Republicans talking about getting a veto proof majority. Stephen Collinson, thanks so much.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited his troops in the Zaporizhzhia region today. This amid some major military setbacks on the

southeastern front. Ukrainian troops were forced to retreat from positions in the area earlier this week, and now the city of Pokrovsk could soon fall

entirely into Russian hands.

President Zelenskyy is at the same time facing a major corruption scandal in the energy sector while power outages continue to worsen across the

country as a result of ongoing Russian strikes. Evelyn Farkas is the executive director of the McCain Institute, former assistant deputy

assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. Evelyn, good to have you.

EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Thank you, Jim. It's great to be

here.

SCIUTTO: So, first of all, can you tell us the military significance of the loss of this town here? I mean, the amount of effort and fighting that's

been focused on this town for weeks and the enormous losses by Russian forces, many thousands of soldiers killed per week. Is this a strategic

loss on that eastern front? Is it significant?

FARKAS: So, I think it's significant, Jim, because it's a tactical loss and I would argue probably an operational loss because they're getting closer

to a significant train hub that they could use for logistics purposes to get men and equipment in closer to where the Ukrainians are, where the

fighting is. So, that is problematic. Make no mistake.

But it's not a strategic defeat. It's similar to other towns you might remember in the summer, Avdiivka and other towns that were taken, and they

provided the Russians with another toehold, another very gradual move into Ukrainian front-line territory.

So, it's not good for the Ukrainians, but I wouldn't argue that it's going to change the tide of the war anytime soon.

SCIUTTO: At the same time, you have this quite significant political challenge for Zelenskyy, people very close to him who are accused of

involvement in a massive corruption scandal, which has the added insult of, right, involving the energy sector in the midst of power blackouts that, of

course, are the result of Russian attacks. How big of a problem is this for Zelenskyy? And is it potentially a threat to his power?

FARKAS: I don't think it's a threat to his power, Jim, because at the end of the day, Ukraine's in a state of war. According to their constitution,

they can't they can't have elections. And President Zelenskyy still has, I think, 60 percent of the Ukrainian people supporting him.

Having said that, of course, this does put a dent. But it goes both ways, because when you discover corruption, it demonstrates, OK, number one,

there's corruption. But it also demonstrates that the system of discovering, of investigating works. So, in this case, the agencies that

are charged with fighting corruption in Ukraine did meticulous work over the period of months, I think actually it was something like 15 months of

work. They did what they were supposed to do.

Now, some of the problem politically for President Zelenskyy is that he did try to interfere with these oversight boards and oversight agencies that

were that are charged with rooting out corruption. The Ukrainian people and civil society went to the street, demonstrated, and he withdrew legislation

that would have actually, in effect, taken a lot of power away from these institutions.

[18:15:00]

So, you know, President Zelenskyy needs to really now side with the anti- corruption agencies definitively. He did side with them ultimately on the battle to, you know, curtail their power. That was several months ago. But

now he needs to take swift action. He's taken some swift action already because the problem is not just domestic, obviously, the International

Community, Jim, needs to know that the money is not being diverted elsewhere, that the money is going where we are sending it.

SCIUTTO: I wonder how you read Putin's read of this, right? Because even prior to this progress around this town on the Eastern Front, the read I've

heard, and I just returned from Eastern Europe, is that he still believes he's winning. He still believes he can outlast Ukraine and, crucially, NATO

and the U.S. in terms of its support for Ukraine. I imagine his forces take a town like this even at great cost, and that might solidify his view.

FARKAS: Possibly, Jim, yes. I mean, there's no mistake. It doesn't look good for Ukraine right now. But let's not forget, Ukraine just took out a

new drone facility that the Russians were building in occupied Ukrainian territory. The Russians have been striking at refineries and oil depots

deep in Russian territory -- the Ukrainians have been, sorry.

And this actually is a strategic campaign. It looks like they are targeting these oil refineries and these depots with a mind towards increasing the

pressure on the domestic Russian consumption. So, the oil prices have gone up at the tanks in Russia. So, the supply is down. And then they're also

trying to limit the supply or destroy the supply that gets exported because, of course, that's how Russia is still making money. At the same

time, of course, we have sanctions from the U.S. and the Europeans cutting down on the shadow fleet, which is basically illegal shipment of Russian

oil.

So, all of this is actually putting pressure on Russia, Jim. Maybe President Putin's fooling himself and saying he's winning. I don't think

it's fair to say that he's winning either. Yes, if he can drag this out, he has more people and he doesn't care about losing them. But if Ukraine takes

out more and more of his oil facilities, he will not have oil for his military. He will not have oil to make money. So, that's also a stressor on

him.

SCIUTTO: No question. A lot of evidence that he's already losing a good deal of oil revenue. Evelyn Farkas, thanks so much for joining.

FARKAS: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Later on this program, we're going to take you to NATO's eastern front with Russia, an inside look at Latvia as the NATO member nation

reinforces its borders with Russia and Belarus and also develops new drone technology.

In the occupied West Bank, Israeli settlers have attacked a mosque, setting it on fire, spraying it with racist graffiti. The Palestinian Foreign

Ministry says it is holding the Israeli government responsible for the crime and the consequences, saying gangs of settlers are carrying out daily

assaults. The IDF says it dispatched forces, but, quote, "no suspects were identified."

Israel has received the remains of another hostage from Hamas in Gaza. He has been identified as 73-year-old Meny Godard, a resident of a kibbutz

near the Gaza Strip. The handover leaves three remaining hostages so far unreturned.

Doctors at two hospitals in East Jerusalem say Israel is planning to deport sick Palestinians back to Gaza now, even those currently undergoing

treatment. Medical teams at Makassed Hospital and Augusta Victoria Hospital say at least 89 Gaza patients and their family members and loved ones are

due for deportation. They told CNN that while most patients have agreed to return to Gaza, some are being sent to the enclave against their will.

The World Health Organization says, as of last month, 94 percent of hospitals in Gaza are damaged or entirely destroyed.

Still ahead, Trump versus the BBC. The U.K. broadcaster has now publicly apologized to the U.S. president as it tries to defuse its worst crisis in

many years, the very latest after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, an ugly day on Wall Street. All the major averages finished deep in the red, as you can see

there. Tech fell more than 2 percent. Concerns about tech valuations and uncertainty over the Fed's next policy move all weighing on shares. It was

the worst day for stocks in a month. Big tech losers include NVIDIA, which fell 3.5 percent. Fellow chip maker AMD, down more than 4 percent. A.I.

software firm, lots of military conflict, contracts Palantir fell 6.5 percent.

Checking some of today's other business headlines, the latest quarterly earnings report from Disney is disappointing investors. Shares in the

entertainment giant fell almost 8 percent after posting weaker than expected revenues. Disney also warned that its ongoing contract dispute

with YouTube will continue to weigh on the bottom line. Disney's ABC and ESPN content has not been airing on YouTube TV for two weeks now. On the

positive side, Disney's streaming and amusement park divisions posted strong growth.

One of America's largest telecom firms is said to be planning major corporate layoffs. Reports say Verizon is set to cut some 15,000 jobs as

its new CEO gears up for a major restructuring. The layoffs could affect some 15 percent of its workforce. It would be Verizon's largest round of

layoffs ever.

The 43-day U.S. government shutdown may be over. Its effects on the economy could last longer. The Congressional Budget Office says the U.S. could end

up losing some $11 billion in GDP because of the shutdown. White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett says the crisis probably led to the loss of

some 60,000 U.S. private sector jobs.

The BBC is apologizing to President Donald Trump just one day before his threatened deadline to sue the broadcaster for $1 billion. The BBC's

apology stems from an edit producers made to his speech, a speech he delivered the day of the Capitol Hill insurrection in 2021. That was

broadcast during an episode of the documentary program "Panorama." The White House called the edit false and defamatory. The BBC says it was not

made in bad faith but will not air the episode again. It also says it strongly disagrees that there is a basis for a defamation claim. Two top

BBC executives have resigned over the scandal.

Brian Stelter joins me now. So, Brian, you know, first of all, this is a U.K. broadcaster, state broadcaster. Its top two executives have gone. A

public apology here. I mean, I imagine this shows the reach of President Trump's attacks on the media. I mean, we're certainly used to them in this

country, lawsuits, et cetera, but this has jumped the Atlantic.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST AND AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": That's right. More than half a dozen examples this year of major media

companies coming under Trump's pressure. Some have decided to fight and others have decided to fold. We've covered the settlement deals that Disney

and Paramount and Meta and other companies have struck with Trump in the past 12 months.

[18:25:00]

But what's, I think, more telling are the examples of media companies standing up to Trump. The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Des

Moines Register. You know, Trump has sent a number of these threatening legal letters to news outlets this year. He's sent at least one to CNN, for

example. This week it was the BBC.

And, of course, the difference in this case with the BBC is, as you just indicated, a British broadcaster. Also, number two, in this case the BBC

has admitted to an error, a serious editing error. But there's no indication that it was done maliciously on purpose. There's no indication

that it was done with actual malice, which is the legal standard Trump would have to prove if he files a case in the U.S.

So, we will see now if the Trump legal team does move forward with a lawsuit. But it's very telling, Jim, that the BBC is signaling it will

fight. It's not looking to fold. It has not struck a secret settlement. It is not privately paying Trump to go away. It is indicating it will fight if

Trump decides to sue.

SCIUTTO: Can you tell us domestically how serious an issue this is for the BBC's reputation? I mean, the BBC has had other problems as well, unrelated

certainly to the Trump administration. Is this a big blow there?

STELTER: Right. And this editing scandal has played right into the political grievances against the BBC that are very clear and are long-

running. There's been an ongoing conservative campaign in the U.K. to undermine the BBC. And every self-inflicted wound plays right into that

campaign.

But we often see how this plays out with institutions that are under pressure. They are held to a very high standard, while the people

challenging them are held to a very low standard. President Trump oftentimes misleads the public and lies to the press. And yet, news outlets

that cover him are held to an impossibly high standard. And I'm not complaining about that. Journalists should be held to a very high standard.

But it's important to recognize the difference that is -- you know, is in place in a situation like this.

So, we'll see if Trump's lawyers move forward. In the meantime, though, they are pursuing the BBC in the court of public opinion. We've seen the

White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, calling out and bashing the BBC this week. And I think it's notable that the newsroom, you know, does

seem to want the BBC board to defend the newsroom and to take a public stand. And that's what we've seen happen tonight.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's quite a balance there. And to your point, a different standard. We see it every day. Brian Stelter, thanks so much.

STELTER: A different standard, yes. Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," how Latvia and its NATO allies, particularly on the eastern front with Russia, are preparing for growing

threats from Moscow. What I saw firsthand in Latvia. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro is urging Americans to unite with his country for peace. His comments during a rally in Caracas follow the

deployment of more U.S. warships to the Caribbean. Washington insists the military buildup is aimed at disrupting the flow of drugs. President Maduro

believes the U.S. is trying to force regime change.

Republican leaders expect many fellow Republicans to support a bipartisan bill calling for the full release of the Jeffrey Epstein files, breaking

with President Trump. Speaker Mike Johnson has set the vote now for next week, earlier than expected. The bill's supporters are pushing for a veto-

proof majority. That would require two-thirds of the House, about 290 votes.

Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin rocket has launched successfully. It took off from Cape Canaveral, carrying a pair of satellites that are destined to travel

all the way to Mars. Both spacecraft are expected to enter Martian orbit in September 2027. They will evaluate the Red Planet's atmosphere, as well as

radiation, as they test for conditions for future human explorers.

Latvia is shoring up its borders with Russia and Belarus with the help of its NATO allies. Recent military exercises follow suspected incursions into

European airspace by Russian drones. And for years, Latvia and its neighbors have accused Moscow and Minsk of using migrants to destabilize

their countries. I visited Latvia ahead of its Independence Day next week to get a firsthand look at just how the country and NATO are responding to

growing threats from Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): On NATO's eastern flank with Russia, NATO forces launch state-of-the-art drones, in training for tracking and shooting down

enemy drones. This is NATO's DIBAX exercise, where the alliance tests some of its most advanced weapons, here at the Adazi military base in Latvia.

Major General Arnoud Stallman of the Netherlands helps lead the development of NATO's newest combat capabilities.

MAJ. GEN. ARNOUD STALLMAN, NATO ALLIED COMMAND: We are for the future. So, we are developing that very fast. And it's priority number one at the

moment to have drone protection for our troops, but also for the nations.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The drone threat is not at all theoretical. In recent weeks, suspected Russian drones have repeatedly violated European airspace,

according to multiple European officials, shutting down several international airports. Russia has called this, quote, "absurd

speculation."

Today, Latvia is solidifying its defenses along the entire length of its borders with Russia and Belarus. I visited Latvia's new and reinforced

border fence, within sight of Belarusian soldiers.

SCIUTTO: The fence here along the border is mostly new since 2021, and it is the security you can see, the metal, the barbed wire, but also security

you can't see, pressure sensors and, crucially, anti-drone technology.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Here, the threat from Russia is on the ground. Latvian officials tell me in past years, Russia has flown migrants from the

Middle East, Africa and Cuba, dropped them just across the border in both Russia and Belarus, and encouraged them to attempt to cross in waves of

hundreds or more. Russia has long denied this.

SCIUTTO: This is not people seeking economic opportunity, it's meant to destabilize.

CAPT. VLADIMIRS SERSTS, HEAD OF BORDER CONTROL, DAUGAVPILS DISTRICT: Of course, but it's both. Belarusian regime use these migrants -- they're not

migrants on their own country, but these people who are in need of, for example, like you mentioned, economical reasons, they use them, they gather

them, and they're just sending them to us without any control, just to destabilize our security.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): For Latvia, defending its own sovereignty and NATO as a whole from Russia has become a national mission. They worry they could be

next after Ukraine.

[18:35:00]

BAIBA BRAZE, LATVIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Russia is waging war in Ukraine. So, whether it's jamming of the drones or this type of testing, Russia is

signaling something to the NATO, something to the International Community. And that is not only reckless, that is also highly responsible because it

can result in an escalation.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): For now, Ukraine remains the front line. And as the war there becomes an arms race of air, sea, and ground drones, Latvian

engineers are supplying Ukrainian forces with new technology. Latvia's Origin Robotics has just begun sending a new interceptor drone to Ukrainian

forces.

SCIUTTO: So, this is an anti-drone drone, 3D printed, extremely like the idea that this, which costs several thousand dollars, not several million

dollars, is able to defend a place like Ukraine against much more expensive and much more powerful missiles.

Do we have a sense of who is winning the drone war as it is in terms of technology?

AGRIS KIPURS, CEO, ORIGIN ROBOTICS: In terms of technology, we are still ahead.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Back at Latvia's Adazi military base, a NATO combat brigade with forces from 14 different nations is now permanently based

here. It's one of four such brigades forward deployed to the countries NATO sees as most vulnerable to potential Russian attack. Latvia, Estonia,

Lithuania, and Poland. For the commander of Latvian forces here, defending NATO's eastern front is increasingly Europe's responsibility.

BRIG. GEN. AIVARS KRJUKOVS, COMMANDER, LATVIAN NATIONAL GUARD: You need to build something. You need to collaborate together. You need to understand

what you need. You need to cooperate together. And based on that experience, I think we are really, really getting better day by day.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Advanced weapons like these defending Ukraine today and perhaps NATO tomorrow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (on camera): Joining me now is Justina Budginaite-Froehly. She's a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, worked for Lithuania's Defense

Policy Planning Department. Thanks so much for joining.

JUSTINA BUDGINAITE-FROEHLY, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Good evening.

SCIUTTO: I wonder, Eastern allies, including Latvia, but certainly Lithuania, Estonia as well, have been warning for years that Russia is a

threat to Europe, not just to Ukraine. In your view, is the rest of the alliance now catching up with that view?

BUDGINAITE-FROEHLY: Thank you for your question. I think yes. I think the newest decisions, for example, during the Hague NATO Summit that we had

back in summer, signals very clearly that other NATO nations are following. And they heard the warnings coming from the Baltic countries that we have

to step up our defenses and we have to improve our defenses just in order to be able to face this Russian threat. So, what we have now is the 5

percent GDP spending pledge that NATO countries agreed upon. And I think this is a huge, huge improvement indeed for the alliance as a whole.

SCIUTTO: I wonder where you think those military efforts stand now. You know, as you saw there, I visited a military exercise, NATO exercise, where

they're integrating drones, even artificial intelligence into war fighting. But scale is always the problem I hear in terms of getting enough drones,

you know, certainly whether to compete with Russia or even looking longer term with China. Are they doing enough quickly enough?

BUDGINAITE-FROEHLY: This is an important question, of course. And the recent events in the eastern flying countries, the drone incursions, showed

very clearly that we are still not there to defend ourselves effectively against these low-cost threats, actually. So, what we need now is a cost-

effective solutions, indeed, to be able to counter these drone incursions without firing our very expensive missiles to them.

So, for sure, it's more to be done. And both NATO and the E.U., with its funding measures, are stepping up actually in this effort. The E.U. just

also announced its flagship project some weeks ago. One of them is on drone defense.

So, what the E.U. is also talking about together, like based on NATO's defense plans, is that we need a layered defense, anti-drone, counter-drone

defense. And the scale is, of course, a very crucial, crucial component of that, because we have just a couple of drones coming in into Poland and

other allied territory. But we cannot be sure that next time will be that minor as well. We can face indeed a huger amount of Russian drones coming

in and we have to be prepared.

[18:40:00]

SCIUTTO: Another thing I heard in Latvia is that hybrid war by Russia on Europe is already underway and you hear public comments from a number of

European leaders to that effect. Drone incursions, cyber-attacks certainly, but also these migrant waves intending to put pressure. Has Europe figured

out a good answer to hybrid warfare?

BUDGINAITE-FROEHLY: I think this is an ongoing effort indeed to deal with that. And as you mentioned, the threat is not new. It started with migrant

flows through the Belarusian border. We had sabotage attacks against critical energy and data infrastructure under the Baltic Sea. We have those

drone incursions. We have assassination attempts.

So, this is a huge array of things happening actually at the moment in those countries. And for sure, it is difficult to answer because these are

asymmetric threats. You will not always know how to attribute correctly. You need very good situational awareness across multiple countries, across

multiple locations. And this is everything we still have to do in order to be able to respond to them.

SCIUTTO: Justina Budginaite-Froehly, thanks so much for helping us understand.

BUDGINAITE-FROEHLY: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Well, this just in to CNN. The Ukrainian capital Kyiv is under, quote, "a mass enemy attack" with explosions felt throughout the city. This

according to the mayor of Kyiv. Ukraine's air force says ballistic weapons fired towards the capital.

Also, just in, sources tell us that President Trump was briefed this week on options for military operations inside Venezuela. The president has

previously seemed cautious about taking military action to oust the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro. His main concern seems to revolve

around whether that would be effective. However, our reporting, my reporting along with my colleagues, Kevin Liptak and Zachary Cohen, is that

Southern Command of the U.S. military has set up cells to develop military options, which they have now presented to the National Security Council.

We'll continue to follow that story closely.

Well, the Trump administration is slashing the number of refugees coming into the U.S. to just 7,500. Most of them will be white South Africans.

After the break, a CNN investigation looks into claims among those white South Africans of genocide and persecution.

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[18:45:00]

SCIUTTO: The Trump administration is dramatically reducing the number of refugees coming into the U.S., but making exceptions almost exclusively for

white South Africans. The White House claims they're being persecuted. In a new episode of "The Whole Story," Senior Correspondent Donie O'Sullivan

traveled there to investigate the surge of misinformation.

Donie joins me now here in New York. Can you tell us, what is the basis of this allegation, in effect, that white South Africans are under such threat

there that they need rescue here in the U.S.?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. I mean, there isn't much of a basis for it, really, is what we found. Look, I mean, crime is a

major problem in South Africa. South Africa has a lot of problems, but it's not something that is affecting the white community exclusively.

In fact, you know, even 30 years after apartheid ended, whites, by all measures, are still doing much better statistically than black people in

South Africa. The white population makes up 7 percent of the overall population. They own 75 percent of the land.

What some white South Africans have taken issue with is there are some sort of affirmative action type laws in the country to try and sort of undo some

of the wrongs of apartheid. And also, of course, there has been violent crimes, particularly farm attacks, attacks on farms against many white

people, but also black people as well.

So, you know, all of this is about painting a picture, I think, in the United States to try and drum up fear here about demographic change in the

U.S. And that's really -- you know, while we were in South Africa, we've heard this term white genocide bandied about here in the U.S. quite a bit.

Even President Trump referenced it a few months ago.

You know, people there say that's not something they had heard, many of them, until they heard it coming from the U.S. about South Africa. So,

really, it's a country that's been sort of been picked up as a talking point in the MAGA verse as such.

SCIUTTO: And you did speak to white Americans who buy that threat, who fear they're becoming a threatened minority here. What kind of things did they

tell you?

O'SULLIVAN: Absolutely. And I mean, I think, you know, it's hard to understate how big an issue this is for, you know, if you're listening to

certain segments of right-wing or far-right media. And again, of course, we hear versions of this coming from the White House and you can see how it's

affecting U.S. policy on refugees. That this idea that if whites, you know, sort of lose control, that the country will go to chaos.

And, you know, incredibly, we met one man in the year 2025 in the United States who is building a whites only settlement in Arkansas. And here's

what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: Right now, there's about 40 or so people living here, give or take. But you told me there's hundreds of people want to move here.

Hundreds of people have applied.

ERIC ORWOLL, CO-FOUNDER, RETURN TO THE LAND: Yes, there are quite a few people waiting to be interviewed.

O'SULLIVAN: Wow. Are they all racist?

ORWOLL: Well, it depends on what you mean by racist. Are they racist in the sense that they hate other groups of people and want to deprive other

groups of people of resources or opportunities? No.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): People like Eric are afraid that white Americans are being replaced. And a projection from the U.S. census has them worried.

O'SULLIVAN: I think America is due to become a minority white country for the first time in the 2040s. Are you concerned about that?

ORWOLL: Of course, I'm concerned about that. And look what's happened in South Africa. Right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And, Jim, I mean, most of the people we spoke to in South Africa pointed out to us that there are Afrikaners, whites out

Africans who are sort of on the more fringe side of things who are coming to the U.S. and are sort of being embraced by the White House or being

embraced by the far-right to sort of paint this picture of the country.

But look, I mean, in terms of the folks we met, it's many blacks and whites living alongside each other, trying to get along, trying to get on with

their lives, all acknowledging that there are many, many problems in the country. But it's not as though that whites are being singled out or

persecuted in the way that's being portrayed here.

SCIUTTO: That's why it's important to go there and see for yourself. Doni O'Sullivan, thanks so much. You can watch Donie's full report on the "Whole

Story," 8:00 p.m. Eastern time on Sunday.

[18:50:00]

Norway, now moving closer to securing a spot at the World Cup for the first time since 1998. That and much more from today's qualifying matches just

after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Two goals from Kylian Mbappe help send France to the 2026 World Cup with a win over Ukraine. It was a different story for Portugal, though,

as star Cristiano Ronaldo was sent off for elbowing a defender in a shock defeat against Ireland. CNN's Don Riddell joins us now. So, Don, I mean, is

Ireland going to go to the Cup now?

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: They've got a little bit of work to do, but that was a huge result for them tonight, Jim. The tournament is getting

closer and closer. The draw is just now three weeks away. And going into today's games on Thursday, we knew the identity of 28 teams who had

qualified. We can now make that 29 after France clinched their spot.

Les Bleus made it all the way to the final at the last World Cup, losing only on a penalty shootout to Argentina. They have secured their return

with a big win against Ukraine in Paris. Mbappe got them going with an audacious penalty, and he was on target again for his brace late in the

second half. France easing to a 4-nil win, as we say, qualification secured.

Portugal are on the brink of securing their iconic. Cristiano Ronaldo, a record sixth World Cup appearance. But that's going to have to wait, and

Ronaldo is going to have to cool his heels after a tough night in Dublin. Ireland were 2-nil up at halftime, thanks to a brace from Troy Parrott at

the Aviva Stadium. That's how the game finished, a huge upset.

And Ronaldo, well, he was pretty upset. He'll be in a real hurry to forget this game. He was sent off for swinging his elbow just before the hour

mark. It's his first red card in 226 games for Portugal. If they had won that game, Portugal would have qualified for the tournament. They'll have

another go against Armenia on Sunday.

Now, it's been a long time since Norway made a World Cup appearance. They last were there 27 years ago. But a comprehensive win against Estonia in

Oslo means they are almost certainly now packing their bags for North America. All the action here came early in the second half, as Norway blew

their opponents out of the water. Alexander Sorloth scoring a quick-fire brace, two goals in the span of just three minutes. And then just four

minutes after that, the inevitable happened, Manchester City's goal machine Erling Haaland made it 3-nil. And just six minutes after that, he got

another for his brace. A comfortable 4-0 lead now. Estonia got a consolation, but this was Norway's night. They know they are very, very

close to a World Cup return.

And I'll tell you just how close they are to qualifying. Norway are going to play Italy next. Italy are going to have to overturn a 17-goal deficit

to spoil their party.

[18:55:00]

The Azzurri's qualifying run has been really hard. They almost didn't even score against Moldova today. Not for the one of trying. 30 attempts on

goal, but it wasn't until the 88th minute that they found a way through. Gianluca Mancini making it 1-nil. Two minutes then into stoppage time,

Francesco Pio Esposito made it 2-nil Italy. For context, if it wasn't for those late goals, Norway would have clinched their qualification today.

Italy still have work to do if they want to make it to their first World Cup tournament since 2014.

There is CONCACAF action to come later today and more teams from Europe can qualify on Friday. Remember, Jim, this is a newly expanded competition. 48

teams are going to be heading there. There is room for another 19. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Crowded field. It's been tough for Italy lately. You know, they've got to do something. Don Riddell, thanks so much.

Thanks so much all of you for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

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