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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Senate Agrees to Pass Epstein Files Bill; Trump Welcomes Saudi Crown Prince to White House; Trump Defends Crown Prince on Khashoggi Murder; U.S. to Sell F-35 Stealth Jets to Saudi; Two Ukrainian Citizens Working with Russia Behind Rail Attack; U.K. to Ban Exploitative Ticket Reselling; WH Holds Formal Dinner for Saudi Crown Prince. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired November 18, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: A warm welcome to you wherever you are joining me tonight from
around the world. I'm Richard Quest in New York, and you're about to be briefed.
Ahead of this hour, the U.S. Senate has unanimously agreed to send the Epstein files law to President Trump for his signature. Only one lone
Republican voted nay in the House. President Trump has welcomed Saudi Arabia's crown prince at the White House, while brushing off the killing of
the Saudi government critic, Jamal Khashoggi. The U.N. -- the U.K., I beg your pardon, tackles price gouging for concert tickets. I'll explain what
that means for music superfans.
We begin, though, in Washington, where in just the last hour, the U.S. Senate has unanimously agreed to pass a bill that has already been backed
by the House. As soon as it's received from the chamber, the bill would force the Justice Department to release its Epstein case files. It'll then
reach President Donald Trump's desk. Earlier, the House voted in favor of the bill, 427 to 1.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill is passed, and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, here we have an overwhelming rare show of unity. Incidentally, the single nay vote came from the Republican congressman, Clay Higgins. The
president, President Trump, has said he will sign the bill. He still calls the whole matter a Democrat hoax.
The Epstein files are the various court records and evidence that document Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking networks. In it, it names associates,
witnesses and alleged enablers. The Senate Minority Leader, Senator Chuck Schumer, confirmed the news a few moments ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), U.S. SENATE MINORITY LEADER: To reconsider be considered made and laid upon the table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there an objection? Without objection, so ordered.
SCHUMER: The Senate has now passed the Epstein bill as soon as it comes over from the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: A bit of procedural stuff there. Annie Grayer is with me. So, basically, they're waiting for the thing to arrive physically, but they've
actually done the deed and passed it. So, I imagine once they've done the deed, they -- once they sort of get the bill, they then sign whatever they
do with it. It goes up to the White House. Any idea when President Trump will sign?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, he's -- the president is waiting for the bill to arrive on his desk, but he said that he will sign it, it'll
just be a matter of timing, depending on how late it comes over tonight. So, the Senate is just waiting for the bill to physically be sent over from
the House. And as soon as the Senate receives it, it will immediately be sent to the White House.
This is a remarkable moment, because if you were to rewind just to last week, there were only four Republicans who were publicly supporting this
effort. In fact, the White House and Trump allies and House Republican leadership were trying to peel off any one of those Republicans to prevent
this petition from getting a floor vote.
But as soon as the 218 signatures were clinched, there really was no stopping the momentum here. More and more Republicans started to come out
for this effort, and that's why you saw over the weekend the reversal from President Trump, saying he now supports the release of these files on the
floor vote. You see the speaker now voting for the release of the files, even though he had been delaying the effort for months.
And today is really also just a reminder of how quickly Congress can work when it wants to. Normally, things take months. The votes between the House
and the Senate, there's usually a long delay. Often the House will send things over to the Senate, and the Senate shelves it and never sees the
light of day. But not today. The Republican Party showed that they want to be on the side of transparency, and that momentum is really what shifted
party leaders all the way at the top to the White House to change course here.
Now, Speaker Johnson voted for this measure, but he said earlier today that he wanted the Senate to make key changes to the final legislation. That
does not look like that is going to happen. As soon as the Senate receives it, it will head to President Trump's desk.
[18:05:00]
But I just can't emphasize enough how remarkable it has been to watch today unfold, given the speaker could have put a vote on the House floor at any
time to release the Epstein files. President Trump, at any point, could have directed his own Department of Justice to release all the Epstein
files. And that's not what happened. It took months, and here we are today.
QUEST: Right. OK. But let me jump in here. Essentially what happened, though, is politics now got involved. The very people who were not prepared
to do this suddenly saw the way the wind was blowing and decided to get on board. Now, I know that's saying, there's never the wrong time to do the
right thing, but we shouldn't sort of dress it up. Let me have your thoughts. They suddenly saw the light and decided this was right.
GRAYER: Right. I think what happened here is the speaker and the president realized that so many Republicans were going to vote for the release of the
files today that they didn't want to be split from the majority of their own members. They didn't want to have that embarrassment play out so
publicly. So, that's why we saw the pivot both from the president and the speaker at the last minute.
QUEST: Right. Grateful for you. Thank you, Annie, on Capitol Hill. A great evening for you. With me, the Republican Congressman Mike Haridopolos. Good
to speak to you, Congressman. When you just heard the question.
Look, again, I emphasize the significance here, there's never the wrong time to do the right thing. But this has been a long time coming. And, you
know, the vault face of the president is unusual, you have to admit.
REP. MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, (R-FL): Well, first and foremost, let's make sure we understand the reality here. For four years, Joe Biden and the Democrats
did absolutely nothing. Zippo, nada, zill. And so, this year, we decided to open up this issue. We talked about it for four years. We wanted to make
sure the innocent were protected so their name would not be exposed. Those people have been victimized by Mr. Epstein, who's gladly no longer on this
earth. And we wanted to make sure we did it the right way. That's why we released 65,000 pages of documentation. That's why we had committees
looking at this. This is where the information's coming out.
And so, Republicans were actually the ones who pushed this for four years. And then we did it in a judicious manner to make sure that everyone knows
that Mr. Epstein was a pedophile. And I'm so glad that he is no longer here. And the Republicans kept this issue alive, as you know very well.
QUEST: On this question, of course, at any given point, the attorney general and/or the president could have just released it all anyway. We
didn't have to go through the whole business of passing a bill when, with a signature of a pen, it could have been done.
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, again, I don't disagree with any of your assumptions. But again, I just want to make sure your listeners know that for four
years, this could have been out there. They could have done this the entire years during the Joe Biden years, the same way as you just described. It
was Republicans who kept this issue alive.
Last week, before the president came out, I came out in support of this. But I -- again, you want to do it the right way. You think of all the
hundreds, if not thousands of victims here who might have now their name out there who didn't want it out there. They didn't want the public to know
that Epstein had taken advantage of their youth. And we're trying to protect that.
But yes, politics did get in the way. The good news is that people can read over this now. And we put this silly episode behind us and focus on what
really matters, which, of course, is growing the economy and make sure that America stays the strongest nation in the world.
QUEST: Just -- before we go to that part, I just want to stay with this. Because now, it really is a case of where the chips may fall. Now, we had
Larry Summers, not that there's any suggestion that he had done anything improper other than keeping in contact with Epstein. There's no allegations
against the president. I'm making that absolutely clear. There never has been. Virginia Giuffre never made any suggestions of that.
But we are going to get names and people who either kept in contact the rich and the powerful on both sides, sir, on both sides. And I'm guessing
you would agree that whoever's involved, they pay the price.
HARIDOPOLOS: Yes, they will pay a price. The reality is that transparency is the ultimate disinfectant. It's the reason why I'm a big supporter of
transparency, not just on these issues, but financial issues as well. It's the reason why we looked at programs like USAID, where there's so much
waste and fraud taking place, or even some of our own healthcare programs. The best way to make sure the government stays open is to make it more
transparent. That was the speaker's goal.
But he wanted to protect the innocent. Of course, did politics get there? The good news is, now that it's behind us, we can focus on things that
truly matter to folks in the future, and that is how do we continue to grow this economy, which is, of course, it turned around in a big way after four
years of failure and high inflation under Joe Biden.
[18:10:00]
QUEST: Do you -- let's leave President Biden to one side for one second. Do you accept that the tariffs that were introduced have raised prices and
caused an increasing affordability issue, which the president has now had to reverse somewhat in the last couple of days on things like various
items, coffee, beef, and the like?
HARIDOPOLOS: Well, first and foremost, the reason why we have tariffs is there was an unlevel playing field. We all believe in free trade when
everyone acts the same way and taxes the same way. Unfortunately, so many other nations did not do that, especially the Chinese, who not only, of
course, had an unlevel playing field, but they have, of course, no respect for human rights. They have no respect for the environment, and we wanted
to push them so that we have a level playing field.
That said, you know about the great deal that the E.U. made with the United States to set up a long-term trading partnership to make sure that both of
our economies are growing, and as you know, after massive inflation, for example, food, rent, and gasoline went up over 30 percent the last four
years. The good news is, despite the tariffs, we have a static inflation rate in comparison to what happened the last four years, but we need to do
more, especially on health care, and we want to drive down those costs that went up so much the last four years.
QUEST: We have a lot more to talk about on the economy, sir, in the future. Congressman, come back on "Quest Means Business," and we'll discuss
the economic aspects. I'm grateful for your time, sir, tonight. Thank you, sir.
HARIDOPOLOS: Thank you, Richard. Have a great night.
QUEST: Thank you. It'll be a great night at the White House, one way or another, because the White House is getting set to host a formal dinner.
It's not a state dinner, because, of course, the king of Saudi Arabia is not there, the crown prince is there, but it's state in all but name.
Mohammed bin Salman was given most elaborate welcome. There were horses and all sorts of things when he arrived for talks at the White House earlier in
the day.
There were planes there, but they were a little bit fast. The White House says the two leaders signed a defense agreement. We haven't seen the actual
terms of that yet. The president approved the sale of F-35 fighter jets. Ah, those were the F-35s that we just saw, only some of them. The White
House also says the country has struck deals on nuclear energy, A.I. technology, and critical minerals.
The crown prince has not been in Washington since the 2018 murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi. The CIA has later assessed that the Prince had
likely ordered the assassination. When this was put to the crown prince and the president in the Oval Office, Donald Trump jumped to the prince's
defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that
you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You
don't have to embarrass our guest.
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI CROWN PRINCE: About the journalist, it's really painful to hear, you know, anyone that has been losing his life for, you
know, no real purpose or in a legal way. And it's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Well, Kristen Holmes, in many ways when I watched it, I mean, besides the whole toe-curling moment, the crown prince was ready for it,
answered it in a way seemingly the president was not.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, you're exactly right. The crown prince clearly was ready for that question. He had an
answer prepared. And before he could even get to it, President Trump stepped in to defend him, berating the reporter.
And it was a really stunning moment there in the Oval Office. I mean, one of the things that you have to keep in mind is just how prevalent the
killing and murder of Jamal Khashoggi was at the time. Businesses pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Countries stopped doing business. And the crown
prince, who had been at the White House the same year earlier in 2018, never came back again until this moment seven years later. But it was
almost as though any dark cloud that hung over the crown prince because of that was completely gone, or at least in President Trump's mind, was
completely gone because of the way that President Trump was just laying on praise when it comes to the crown prince.
And then almost seemingly referencing that Khashoggi himself might have deserved it because he was a controversial figure that many people didn't
like, and then referring to his murder as, quote, "things happen." It was just all very jarring to hear. Particularly, it was his intelligence
agency, his CIA, President Trump's. They were reported to him. It was stacked with his officials that came to the conclusion that the crown
prince probably directed these Saudi agents to kill Khashoggi. That was something that his own team had given him a readout on.
[18:15:00]
But obviously, if you listen to President Trump today, he has moved on from that completely, wanting to just focus on the now and focus on these
different deals that they were talking about. But it was truly remarkable to watch.
QUEST: I'm grateful you're at the White House for us tonight. It's not a state dinner, is it? What are they calling it? A formal dinner? A big bash?
What are they calling it?
HOLMES: They're just calling it a formal dinner in honor of. But it is, for almost all intents and purposes, a state visit. I will tell you, one
thing that our Kevin Liptak did notice today was there was no fife and drums. That is what usually comes with a state visit. But that seemed to be
the only thing they were missing in this round with the crown prince.
QUEST: Do we know what they're having to eat yet?
HOLMES: We don't know yet. We don't know. But I will get to the bottom of it for you, Richard.
QUEST: Oh, I'd be grateful if you would. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Very kind. Kristen Holmes at the White House.
Now, on this question of the somewhat disrespectful, some might say, comments that the President made about Mr. Khashoggi, his widow, Hanan
Elatr Khashoggi, responded to the claim that her husband -- her murdered husband was extremely controversial. Her statement to CNN says, this is not
a justification to murder him. The crown prince said he was sorry, so he should meet me, apologize, and compensate me for the murder of my husband.
My colleague, Jim Sciutto, also spoke to her on Monday ahead of the prince's visit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANAN ELATR KHASHOGGI, WIDOW OF JOURNALIST JAMAS KHASHOGGI: It is very painful for me. It is very painful for me. It would be better if Jamal was
here and receiving the crown prince by himself, and meet with him and share with him his vision and mission and all of his idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: With me, the managing director of the Middle East and North Africa for the Eurasia Group, Firas Maksad. It's a really difficult one, this,
because on the one hand, everybody knows you've got to move on. You know, the business world moves on. Life moves on. It's how you honor the dead and
the murdered move on at the same time. And seemingly, most unsuccessfully, what the president did sort of managed to make a mess of it in the process.
FIRAS MAKSAD, MANAGING DIRECTOR, MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA, EURASIA GROUP: Yes, Rich. I mean, it was very clear the president was overly
defensive here, trying to honor the crown prince and deflect some of those difficult questions. But those difficult questions have been answered time
and again. They're legitimate. Saudi Arabia has apologized. It has taken responsibility. It has underwent its own judicial process. Senior officials
were sacked as a result of that. And then ultimately, Saudi Arabia, for years, was ostracized and deemed a pariah, even by the president of the
United States at the time, Joe Biden.
So, yes, things did move on, and realpolitik at the end of the day kind of prevails. But this is something that was costly for the Kingdom, and I
think that's worth keeping in mind.
QUEST: And on that point, today -- as I watched the body chemistry and having seen the CP in -- when I was down in Saudi -- at FII when he was out
giving speeches, it's hard to know where the power dynamic is here, because Trump desperately wants the Abraham Accords. He desperately wants all this
sort of love from Saudi, and Saudi wants the planes, the A.I. So, who has the wet hand, do you think?
MAKSAD: Yes, I think it's absolutely right that Trump very much wants to circle back to normalization, although he knows that right now that path
isn't open because of the complexity of Israeli politics, because of the issues of Gaza and getting to Palestinian self-determination, which the
Saudis are keen on having as a prerequisite. But at the same time, you know, the crown prince and Trump agree that they can't hold the bilateral
relationship hostage to those developments in Gaza and elsewhere.
So, I think both are very keen on moving forward, because this is bilaterally -- or mutually beneficial, I should say, and because this also
very much has to do with great power competition with China.
QUEST: Now, that China aspect, because Saudi has a strong relationship with China, but it makes no bones about it, it is in the West, in the U.S.
camp. There's no question about that. So, the selling of F-35s, the getting of the higher computer chips, do you think Saudi -- do you think the crown
prince eventually does have to weaken his link with China?
MAKSAD: I think that's going to be a very difficult balance for the Saudis to strike. There's no doubt that the commercial relationship with China is
very broad and deep.
[18:20:00]
Most of Saudi oil goes east, and China is a big part of where they sell their market. But at the same time, their strategic defense relationship is
anchored in the United States. And what they're doing, essentially, is offering the U.S., offering President Trump, a leg up against China in key
industries of the future, in A.I. that requires deep pockets that the Saudis have, but also access to cheap energy, in managing oil prices, but
also, critically, those critical minerals that you need to build an F-35, where we saw China weaponize that against the United States in the latest
trade war. Saudis are locking in mineral rights in Africa and developing themselves to be a main processing hub for these minerals.
And so, in key industries, we see the Saudis and the Americans deepening that partnership in a way that disadvantages China.
QUEST: I'm grateful for you tonight, Sir Firas. Thank you very much, indeed, joining us. I appreciate it. As we continue, in a moment, you're
going to hear from the U.S.-Saudi Business Council, who I spoke to earlier in the day. It's the evolving relationship. It's exactly what Firas was
talking about, the strategic partnership, but its base is business. Well, will he get a trillion out of the Saudis?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Let's break out to business in time to look and see. Wall Street was down. The recent tumbles just increasing. You can see the worst of the
day was actually the NASDAQ caught by one and a fifth, the tech heavy. Shares of Meta were down despite winning an antitrust case. A federal judge
ruled that the company did not hold a social media monopoly after it acquired Instagram and WhatsApp. Bitcoin was briefly below $90,000 for the
first time in seven months. It's now erased all of the gains for the year so far.
And the other business headlines, NVIDIA plans to invest up to $10 billion in Anthropic as Microsoft will commit as much as $5 billion in the A.I.
startup. In their partnership, Anthropic will buy $30 billion of computing capacity from Microsoft's Azure platform. It follows weeks after OpenAI
announced a $38 billion deal to buy cloud services from Amazon.
[18:25:00]
Google has launched its latest A.I. model, Gemini 3, emphasizing immediate integration into key products like its search engine. It's also highlighted
this model's strong performance across various benchmarks. It's Gemini 3 and it's initially rolled out to Google's premium A.I. subscribers.
Toyota is investing nearly a billion dollars in U.S. plants over the next five -- in five states. According to the company around 250 jobs and to
increase production of hybrid vehicles. Now, actually, it's part of a previously announced plan to invest up to $10 billion in the United States
by the end of the decade.
The president of the U.S.-Saudi Business Council says relations today between the countries are at a peak. Charles Hallab told me that the warm
ties between the two nations go beyond the U.S. president and the Saudi crown prince.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES HALLAB, PRESIDENT, U.S.-SAUDI BUSINESS COUNCIL: This is really an alliance for the ages, what we're talking about here. We've gone well past
partnership, a transactional relationship built on barrels and moved toward a strategic partnership built on bridges and business.
QUEST: Related to this is going to be the ability of Saudi to square the circle with Israel, join somehow the Abraham Accords. Now, I've heard the
crown prince many times talk on this, but at some point, a deed has to be done if the business is going to flow.
HALLAB: It's above my pay grade for sure, but I'm incredibly optimistic. And based on the things I'm hearing lately. I would say stay tuned for some
positive news in the near future.
QUEST: There are still criticisms of Saudi. And your -- here's the problem for your members, particularly the U.S. side, when you then do hear the
criticisms on human rights, for example, the number of executions in Saudi Arabia, judicial executions, et cetera, et cetera. You see, the difficulty
for you is many of your members, most of them are quoted companies, listed companies who have shareholders, who do take an activist interest. How do
you balance that off?
HALLAB: Well, everything's a balance. And I don't pretend to speak for the kingdom in that regard, but nor do I pretend to speak for so many other
countries that have similar issues that seem to raise less concerns in boardrooms across the U.S. and across the world. I only ask that people
judge it on its merits. And I don't think the story of Saudi Arabia is properly told, either in boardrooms or on main streets across this country.
QUEST: Tell me more about that. I'm interested by what you've just said and how you think that could change.
HALLAB: Well, I've been going to Saudi Arabia professionally for 30 years and otherwise even longer than that. You and I both know that the changes
are mind-boggling. The developments, the advancements, the opportunities that have been created over the last 10, 15 years were previously
unimaginable.
For those who sit from afar and criticize, I only encourage them to go to Saudi Arabia and see for themselves how the lives of girls and women have
changed so dramatically. The opportunities that have been created for ballet classes, for health and surgical procedures, for opportunities to
feed families, whether it's Madill, Oklahoma or Medina, Saudi Arabia, the opportunities are -- and the aspirations are equally important. And those
have been created in the Kingdom beyond our wildest imaginations, frankly, 10, 20 years ago.
QUEST: One of the big differences I think that we saw in Saudi at FII this time is a, it's a subtle message, but it's very clear, which is don't come
to Saudi just to take the money out. The days of going to Saudi just to fill your boots with contracts. Yes, the contracts are still there, Neom
(ph), et cetera, et cetera, not as much as before. But PIF is not just looking to invest out, it's what you can bring in. How is that reflected?
HALLAB: Yes. No, that's exactly right. And it's a very astute observation. Long gone now are the days where American companies or other foreign
companies can show up with suitcases and expect them to be filled with cash or are there simply to sell services and products without engaging with the
kingdom of Saudi Arabia in a material and mutually beneficial way.
[18:30:00]
So, Vision 2030 is the guiding vision for the Kingdom at the moment. U.S. companies, just like all companies, are encouraged to understand what that
vision contemplates and to be part of it. So, it's really partnership these days. How can U.S. companies partner with Saudi companies and with the
kingdom of Saudi Arabia in a mutually beneficial way?
We all know how goods and services can be sold backwards and forwards, but what we're really looking at at the U.S.-Saudi Business Council is that
intersection of the Venn diagram where both U.S. companies and Saudi companies benefit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As you and I continue, a railway explosion in Poland and the prime minister there is calling it an unprecedented act of sabotage. Donald Tusk
now says he knows who's behind it. I'll be talking to the former U.S. ambassador to NATO about how Europe can best defend itself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Richard Quest in for Jim Sciutto tonight. These are the headlines that we're watching for you today.
The U.S. Senate has unanimously agreed to pass a House-backed bill that forces the Justice Department to release its Epstein case files. Now,
before the next procedural stage after it's been received, it's to go to the president, where President Trump has said he will sign the bill. It's
not clear when that will happen.
Saudi Arabia's crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, visited Washington today for the first time since the 2018 murder of the Washington Post journalist
Jamal Khashoggi, a killing that the CIA believed that the prince likely ordered. President Trump called the crown prince a very good friend of mine
and praised his record on human rights, which is an issue for which Saudi Arabia has long been criticized.
The Department of Homeland Security is expanding its immigration crackdown to Raleigh, North Carolina, after a weekend of mass arrests in Charlotte.
At least 130 people were taken into custody in Operation Charlotte's Web. Local leaders say aggressive tactics have put communities on edge and shut
down businesses.
[18:35:00]
Berlin says it's identified two perpetrators behind Sunday's attack on a railway line that's been used to deliver aid to Ukraine. The prime
minister, Donald Tusk, says two Ukrainian citizens are believed to have been responsible and that they're working with Russian services. The
Kremlin has denied any involvement. No one was injured in last week's attack, in which an explosive device was used to blow up a key section of
the railway. Additional damage was also found further down the same route. Warsaw's calling it an unprecedented act of sabotage.
Ivo Daalder is the former U.S. ambassador to NATO and senior fellow at Harvard's Belfer Center joins me now. Ambassador, I guess this is what
happens, isn't it, whether it's cutting undersea cables, incursions into airspace, or something as old-fashioned as blowing up a railway. But this
is interesting because here, the Polish prime minister says it's collaborators.
AMB. IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD'S BELFER CENTER: Yes. I mean, collaborators with the Russians who
apparently were able to escape across the border with Belarus before they were identified, which is unfortunate. I mean, clearly, what we have is
Russia is engaged in a covert war against Europe. We are seeing an escalating series of activities. This latest one is just the latest one.
We see drone activity recently in France and in Belgium, in Denmark. We saw, of course, the 19 drones that came into Poland from Belarus as well a
few months ago. Aerial incursions of one form or another. And this is all par for the course.
What Russia is trying to do is to destabilize Europe by creating divisions within Europe about how to respond and to weaken Europe's ability and
willingness to help Ukraine. I don't think it's working, but it is serious.
QUEST: Now, the interesting thing is how Europe responds, of course. Now, we saw, of course, the French offering to sell jets. We've seen more and
more deals being done. This is the sort of escalation, though, coming both ways that President Putin says he won't stand for. But it -- you know, the
West, Europe, however you want to describe it, is becoming further and more enmeshed into it.
DAALDER: Yes, clearly today, Europe is far more involved in the war than it was even three years ago, when the fear of having a direct confrontation
with Russia limited the kind of weapons that were being provided and the extent to which there was an imprint, a Western imprint, a NATO imprint on
that. That all is gone because this war is no longer just being confined to Ukraine. It's now actually happening inside Europe on an almost daily
basis.
And the real question is, is it time for Europe to start thinking about, do they need to hit back somewhere else, like in Russia or Belarus?
QUEST: Now, that's what I was going to ask you, because from your private conversations with European leaders, military officials, policy makers, are
the scales falling from the eyes that they can't avoid some form of physical military activity?
DAALDER: Well, there clearly is a debate, and the risk level that one country is willing to tolerate is different from another country. And that
is what's making it difficult. So, I don't think we're going to get a collective response, a NATO response. I don't see the United States, which
doesn't talk a lot about what's happening, being involved in here.
So, the real question is, what are individual countries going to do? What is Poland going to do, or perhaps the United Kingdom, which has long seen
what is happening as worrisome?
QUEST: Let's just quickly talk, if I may, about Hungary. You'll be aware, of course, that Orban's on dodgy ground for his election next year. Still a
long way off, still some time off. But Hungary is the one country that's the naysayer on most of the E.U. issues relating to Ukraine. Do you see
that changing at all?
DAALDER: Well, clearly, if Hungary is a changing government, which is a big if, not because Orban is unpopular, but he has created a system in
which he has all but control the outcome of elections. But let's assume for a moment the election is so overwhelmingly against him, then yes, there
will be a change in Hungarian policy.
[18:40:00]
But, and that is a but, the Czech Republic in the meantime has elected a government that has a minority partner that is very pro-Russian. The Slovak
government is led by a party that is pro-Russian. So, we still have other E.U. countries who are going to make a more difficult task to get
consensus. On the other hand, they're smaller than Hungary and they're less willing to oppose the consensus than perhaps Hungary has been willing to
do.
But that's the problem. The problem is getting a united front when the escalation is not as clear or as direct or is more covert as we are seeing
today to have a response.
QUEST: I saw the comments yesterday, the other day, of President Stubb of Finland. You'll see them. He talks about Europe's going to need the sisu,
which I remember him once describing what the sisu is. You're probably familiar with it. It's this fortitude of spirit. It doesn't really
translate very well into English, but you know what I mean. And that sisu that he refers to is missing at the moment, or is it there?
DAALDER: Well, it is there in the sense that I think most Europeans are committed to seeing Ukraine succeed in this war. A lot of money is being
authorized and spent to buy weapons to help Ukraine to defend itself. The German parliament has just passed another bill for 11.6 billion euros to
buy arms for Ukraine. Ukraine is investing in its defense industry. There's help on helping its energy supply and its stations that are being
bombarded.
What -- the line that has not been crossed yet is a direct military response to the kinds of sabotage and covert war activities that we've
seen. And we may not see that. In fact, the response that may come may not be overt itself. It may be covert. And perhaps that is the shadow war that
we are now entering to, a phase of conflict that we see in the shadows, but not in the open daylight.
QUEST: I'm grateful, Ambassador. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it.
DAALDER: My pleasure.
QUEST: And as you and I continue tonight, in Britain, fans of some of the biggest names in music will benefit from a new law that bans the resale of
event tickets at a big profit. It's designed to prevent scalpers from ripping off genuine fans. But here's the trick, will it work, or is it just
going to create a different type of market? And you'll get the time. We'll talk about it after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
QUEST: Britain is set to ban the resale of tickets for concert shows and sporting events at inflated prices, taking on the ticket touts who often
rely on bots to hoover up huge quantities of tickets for popular events. I'll give you an example of what we're talking about. Reuters says tickets
for Radiohead's upcoming tour in London are amongst the highest price on resale sites. On Friday, standing tickets were originally 85 quid, about
110. By Tuesday, they're on the resale or secondary market via Gogo for 682, about 900. Viagogo says finding ways to verify tickets would be a more
effective way to stop illegal bot activity.
Radiohead has joined Coldplay, Dua Lipa and others in an open letter calling on the government to fulfil its promise to take on the ticket
touts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL GUMBLE, HEAD OF COMMUNICATIONS, U.K. MUSIC: Music fans are the lifeblood of the live music industry. You know, without fans, we don't have
that. So, they need to be the priority in this. So, they deserve the fairest deal possible. They should not have to pay exorbitant prices for
their tickets, whether that's primary or secondary selling. So, it's -- this is hopefully a great move and a great thing for music fans going
forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: If it works. And that is the key question. Entertainment journalist Segun Oduolowu joins me. We've been here before. I've heard this in a
million different ways. It's easy to say, difficult to do.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Absolutely. And well said, Richard. You know, this is channeling Churchill in so many ways. So, it's
appropriate that I speak with you because Churchill said that the price of greatness is responsibility. And it took the responsibility of these stars,
these singers to sign a petition saying enough is enough. You cannot keep price gouging the fans.
As you showed with the graphic, we're looking at eight times the ticket -- the face value of a Radiohead ticket. I mean, that's preposterous. Because
in this music business, the most visceral energy exchange is between the stars on stage and the fans. And that's being, you know, tarnished by these
touts, these scalpers selling tickets at exorbitant prices, utilizing technology. Of course, Churchill also said when you're going through hell,
keep going. And this is just starting.
QUEST: But here's the problem with it. The idea of this law, as I understand it, is that the commercial companies will be allowed to charge a
ticket fee. It's just -- and of course, there'll be a certain amount of fact and degree of how much that is. They just won't be allowed to scalp
the actual price of the ticket. But, you know, if somebody is prepared to pay that price, then isn't that just a free market economy?
ODUOLOWU: Well, it is and it isn't because it's not that someone is prepared to pay that price, the person has no chance to pay another price.
The touts and the scalpers are using technology, these bots, to scoop up as many tickets as possible before you or I or the regular person who isn't
locked in their basement, sweatily hacking on their computer --
QUEST: Can I just pause? I'm just stopping you there, sir. Just stopping you there. If you can see the screen, we're just looking at pictures at the
White House. Forgive me and feel free to join in. We're looking at White House pictures. President Trump and the first lady greeting the crown
prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman. Terrible night in Washington. The weather's appalling.
But they have just arrived at the White House. It's not a state dinner. But just about everything you can possibly think of has been pulled out for
tonight's event.
I'm sorry, I completely sidelined you there. These are big events. Believe me, sir, you can't buy a ticket for this. Actually, that's not true. Give
enough money to politics. I've just realized you can a buy a ticket.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no sidelining at all. And I promise you behind those doors is a better show than most people will ever see on a concert stage
because there will be a lot of singing for supper by my current president. But let me not get too sidetracked and make an enemy of the current regime.
[18:50:00]
But this -- therein lies what we were talking about earlier. It's do we have any recourse to stop the exorbitant prices? And this law that is being
suggested has no teeth because you have yet -- they have yet to define what the punishment will be if someone is caught. So, a law is being proposed
with no yet a punishment to be enforced.
QUEST: Sir, you are a class act. The grande elegante way that you took it from that to the White House and back again. If I was wearing my hat, I'd
take it off to you, sir. Thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.
ODUOLOWU: Always a pleasure, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you. Now, Scotland has secured a World Cup spot for the first time in nearly three decades. The highlights, next. Ah, it's worth a bell.
No, I could do a bell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: As the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, is visiting Washington, football superstar Cristiano Ronaldo is expected to make a rare
U.S. appearance. According to the White House, Ronaldo is currently playing in the Saudi Pro League. He hasn't made a public appearance in the U.S. for
years following legal allegations that were later dismissed.
There are high-stakes World Cup qualifiers today. Don Riddell is with me. Don, always lovely to see you.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes, good to see you too, mate, Richard, it has been an exhilarating night of action in the qualifiers and the events
at Hampden Park in Glasgow will be pretty hard to forget. We have just witnessed a remarkable game packed with so much drama and emotion and a
disclosure here. I was born in Edinburgh, so I'm a wee bit hoarse.
Scotland haven't played in the World Cup since 1998, but they have a deafening Hampden Park crowd at their backs for this last game of the group
against Denmark. The winner would go to the World Cup. Scotts, look at that, an incredible start, leading in only the fourth minute with a
sensational overhead kick from Scott McTominay, a dream start, still a long way to go though.
Denmark came back hard, leveling the scores just before the hour mark. Rasmus Hojlund smashing his penalty into the back of the net. A draw would
send Denmark through automatically to the World Cup, but their job got a lot harder when Rasmus Kristensen was sent off for a second yellow card.
Scotland now playing with an extra man for the last half hour and they made the most of it, regaining the lead through Lawrence Shankland in the 82nd
minute. Scotland now on the brink of an historic World Cup return.
But this was a desperately anxious night in Glasgow because when Patrick Dorgu turned the ball into the back of the net, it was advantage Denmark
again. Remember, Scotland had to win this game and they were running out of time, but there was one more twist. In the 93rd minute, Kieran Tierney
curled in a sensational winner. Just an absolutely epic moment.
Denmark still could have drawn it. They were chasing desperately for an equalizer, but then look at this, Kenny McLean put the icing on the cake
with another incredible goal, emphatically sending Scotland back to the World Cup with a strike from the halfway line. Everything about this game
was just incredible.
[18:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNY MCLEAN, SCORED SCOTLAND'S 4TH GOAL ON TUESDAY: The atmosphere in here, the whole place deserves it. It's been a long time obviously. We knew
we had the ability to do it, but to do it obviously later on feels that bit more special just to finish KTGC. We scored the third best goal in the game
and it was a belter. It's amazing how it's everybody's family up there. We've obviously spoken about it the last few days and we knew it was
possible, but to go and actually achieve it. Incredible, honestly, incredible.
KIERAN TIERNEY, SCORED SCOTLAND'S 3RD GOAL ON TUESDAY: One of the best feelings ever. Unbelievable. This group, the staff, all the fans, everyone
deserves it, man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIDDELL: Don't mind admitting it, Richard, I enjoyed that game immensely. Back to you.
QUEST: Are you Scottish?
RIDDELL: I am, yes.
QUEST: I never knew that.
RIDDELL: Yes, I lost my accent when I moved to London, but yes, I lived there till I was 10.
QUEST: All right. You've got 10 seconds, how far do they go in the World Cup?
RIDDELL: Well, they have never, ever made it out of the group, ever. And they haven't been there for 30 years. Just being there is great.
QUEST: All right. If they make it out the group, dinner on me, restaurant your choice. How's that?
RIDDELL: Fabulous. Can't wait.
QUEST: Good. Good to see you, Don.
RIDDELL: All right.
QUEST: And that is our program for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Good morning to you if you're in Asia, have a great day ahead. You have
been briefed, because the news never stops. This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
