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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Sets Thursday Deadline For Ukraine On Peace Plan; U.S. Pushes Ukraine Peace Deal Seen As Favoring Russia; Trump And Mamdani Meet; Hidden Graves, Fatal Shooting In Tanzania; Ukraine: "Carefully Reviewing" Draft U.S. Peace Plan; Israeli Settlers Torch Cars In West Bank Attack. Aired 6- 7p ET
Aired November 21, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump says that Ukraine's President Zelenskyy has to accept something after giving him until Thursday to respond to
Trump's peace plan. Trump says he and New York City's mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani found a lot to agree on during their first meeting. And A CNN
exclusive investigation finds evidence that police in Tanzania killed protestors following a disputed election there. All that and much more
coming up.
We begin with what Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls one of the most difficult moments in his country's history. President Trump has given
him less than a week until next Thursday to be precise, to respond to a peace proposal. Ukraine, Europe, and even many Democratic and Republican
lawmakers here see as favoring Russia. The plan was developed without input from either Ukraine or the E.U.
According to a draft obtained by CNN Ukraine would agree to seed further territory to Moscow. The U.S. would issue a de facto recognition of Russian
control of Crimea, which it took by force back in 2014. Moscow would also keep parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia based along the current battle
lines. Kyiv would have to give up any hope of joining NATO and commit to reducing the size of its military. President Zelenskyy now faces a serious
dilemma. If he accepts the plan, he'll break an oath to protect Ukraine's sovereignty. If he refuses, he risks losing the support of the United
States.
A little earlier, a reporter asked President Trump what he believes Zelenskyy must do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Zelenskyy said today that his country would risk either giving up to partner or giving up its dignity. There's been
criticism that this deal --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You mean he doesn't like it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's unclear. He was sort of 10 --
TRUMP: Well, he'll have to like it. And if he doesn't like it, then you know, they should just keep fighting, I guess, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suggestion that he made though was that if he doesn't accept it, that the U.S. would pull back its support for Ukraine.
Is that --
TRUMP: Well, at some point he's going to have to accept something, you know, he hasn't accepted. You remember right in the Oval Office not so long
ago I said, you don't have the cards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We thought their relationship had been repaired since then for his part. President Zelenskyy said he will continue speaking with Washington.
One might say his little choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will not make loud statements. We will work calmly with America and all our
partners. There will be a constructive search for solutions with our main partner. I will present arguments, I will persuade, I will offer
alternatives, but we'll definitely not give the enemy any reason to say that Ukraine does not want peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: In Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin says the plan could form the basis of a final peace settlement in Ukraine, his words, though,
even he noted the U.S. has not secured Ukraine's agreement.
Joining us now from the White House, Kristen Holmes. And, Kristen, I wonder why this sudden demand and deadline today. Today was the first day that
President Trump's new sanctions on Russian oil companies took effect, as you know. Why the rush?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, that's a big question. This seemed to have come somewhat out of nowhere in terms of
they came up with this idea, Steve Witkoff, and we know that Ukraine didn't have any input and then, all of a sudden, they had this deadline that they
had put on Ukraine.
And I do want to point out to one thing that Zelenskyy said that I think is really notable is that ending part of what he said, where he says. That he
doesn't want to give the enemy any reasoning to say Ukraine doesn't want peace. Ukraine doesn't want diplomacy. They're not ready for a diplomatic
solution. And the reason why that's so important is because President Trump, every time he comes out of a conversation with Russian President,
Vladimir Putin, that's what you hear from both him and staff at the White House, that there is a belief that Ukraine might not also want peace, that
they are not ready to make a deal.
And so, you hear that Zelenskyy is aware that this is a talking point that Russia has put on the United States one that has kind of seeped in when it
comes to President Trump.
[18:05:00]
And it's going to be very hard for Zelenskyy to navigate at this point if he doesn't say yes to some of this. It's going to put a severe strain on
the relationship. But also, how does he do this dance where he pushes back, gives other suggestions, without having Russia be able to say, this is them
standing in the way of diplomacy, which of course, this is Zelenskyy trying to protect sovereignty of the Ukrainian people. But it is putting him in
quite a difficult position with not a lot of time on reaction or giving him the ability to react.
SCIUTTO: It's interesting that the criticism of this proposal as outlined didn't just come from Ukraine or Europe. I heard it from both Democrats and
Republicans on the Hill, notably Republican Brian Fitzpatrick. He's pursuing a discharge petition to force a vote on new sanctions on Russia. I
wonder, is there any concern in the White House that Trump might lose members of his own party on this, as he did on Epstein?
HOLMES: It's unclear at this point. I mean, what we've seen on this issue, we've seen President Trump go back and forth so many times. And the
Republicans have largely stuck with him. I think that, yes, they want to get these sanctions passed in Congress. But I don't think that this seems
to be an issue that's really dividing the base the way that Epstein did.
I mean, Epstein was a huge problem for Republican lawmakers because it turned this MAGA base against them. And they had to go with what would help
them secure votes in the next midterm election. And when it comes to Russia, remember, most of the MAGA base is all about America first. They
don't want the U.S. to be involved in this at all.
So, these lawmakers aren't really at the same risk that they were of turning the base against them over the idea of Russia, just given where
most of the base stands on foreign policy issues.
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, we'll keep watching this space. Thanks so much.
HOLMES: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Joining me now, Stephen Pifer, he's former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, now an affiliate at the Center for International Security and
Cooperation at Stanford. Ambassador, thanks so much for joining.
STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE AND CTR. FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND COOP. AFFILIATE, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Happy to be here, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first of all, is this a feasible peace plan or is it, as one Ukrainian military commander told me, a blueprint for surrender by Ukraine?
PIFER: Well, unfortunately, as with previous plans that Mr. Witkoff has worked out, it massively favors Russian demands. And as it is, it's, I
think, very difficult to see Ukraine being able to accept it. But I believe what Mr. President Zelenskyy is trying to do is he does not want to come
out and say flat out no. And there are some elements of the plan that perhaps with some work might be changed in a way that could be improved on
the plan, but it's going to take a lot of work.
SCIUTTO: If Trump doesn't bend in the end, and to be fair, we should be prepared for that because there's been so much back and forth on this over
recent months, can Ukraine, together with its European allies, just reject it and in effect saying, we'd like American support, but we're going to
have to go it alone?
PIFER: I think at the end of the day, Ukraine does not want to have to go down that path. But the Ukrainians do have that option if it becomes clear
that the Trump administration is not prepared to adjust the plan and remove some of its most objectionable elements. And so, I think there will be an
effort by President Zelenskyy. I think there will be support from key European leaders in Germany, Poland, Britain and France to try to help
reshape this plan in a more positive direction.
But at the end of the day, I don't see that President Zelenskyy could accept the plan as is. It would not be acceptable to either his government
or to the Ukrainian people, and in particular, not to the Ukrainian soldiers who've been fighting so valiantly for the past almost four years.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I was in Eastern Europe recently, and what struck me there is that Europe is preparing at least to not just do more of its defense on its
own, but to prepare for the possibility that they might be on their own in the event of, say, an attack by Russia, that they just don't have the same
level of confidence that they had before in their U.S. support. And I'm not talking just about Ukraine. I'm talking about Europe as a whole.
And I wonder if you hear similar and might see in a proposal like this reason for European leaders and officials to believe they might be on their
own going forward.
PIFER: Well, I think there are a number of aspects here that concern not just Ukrainians, but also Europeans.
[18:10:00]
I mean, this was a plan reportedly that Mr. Witkoff negotiated with the Russian negotiator, Kirill Dmitriev. So, you have an American-Russian plan
with no input from Ukraine and then is given to the Ukrainians. And it really violates a precept that the West had pursued going back to 2022,
which was this idea of nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine being there.
And I think for the Europeans, it raises the question for Europeans, might Mr. Trump then try to kind of deal with the Russians over their heads that
could directly affect European security?
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's such a great point. And you saw that in the public comments and reaction today, including the Polish president. And again,
some version of what you just said, nothing for Ukraine without Ukraine. Ambassador Steven Pifer, thanks so much for joining.
PIFER: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: "Productive," quote, that's how President Trump and New York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani described their first meeting at the White
House. Mamdani says their conversation focused on cost of living concerns they both share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR-ELECT: We spoke about rent. We spoke about groceries. We spoke about utilities. We spoke about the different
ways in which people are being pushed out. And I appreciated the time with the president. I appreciated the conversation. I look forward to working
together to deliver that affordability for New Yorkers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This follows months of quite public acrimony between the two of them. The president has repeatedly called Mamdani a communist. Mamdani has
described himself as, quote, "Donald Trump's worst nightmare."
Emily Ngo is a political reporter at Politico and co-author of its New York playbook. Thanks so much for joining, Emily.
EMILY NGO, POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Thanks for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, this was a very positive meeting. And I think given their public criticism of each other, quite sharp public criticism of each other,
it surprised a lot of people. Did it surprise you?
NGO: We did expect that mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani would turn on the charm a little bit and use that charisma that helped him get elected in a shock
to the political landscape on President Donald Trump. But I, myself, certainly did not expect the level of praise that was heaped by Trump on
Mamdani. And he certainly was gushing about him. He actually also undermined a lot of the attacks and arguments that the Republican Party at
large have against Mamdani and we're hoping to use against Mamdani and the Democrats in the midterms.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, I have to imagine that if they do pursue that, you might expect Democratic candidates to play some quotes from the Oval Office
there. Something Mamdani noted, he said that one in 10 voters who voted for him for mayor also voted for Trump for president. And to be clear, you know
this better than me, that kind of thing happens around the country where you have this kind of meeting of the minds at this end of the political
horseshoe here.
And Trump then referenced, you know, the Sanders supporters who voted for him. That's notable, is it not? Because that's where that affordability
issue in particular overlaps.
NGO: Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense, actually, because both Trump and Mamdani are populist. They appeal to working class voters. They've made
a case in their campaigns, their relative campaigns, for affordability, for cost of living.
Mamdani actually, in recent weeks, had said that Trump was right in diagnosing the problem of cost of living in a way that the Democratic Party
couldn't. But Mamdani attacked Trump for not being able to deliver on that. They really seem to have hit it off in this Oval Office meeting, ordinarily
a venue reserved for heads of state.
And certainly, they talk a lot about their common love and shared appreciation and devotion to New York City, their hometown, and this
concept of affordability.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I wonder how much of this is that Trump just likes a winner, right? That Trump does have respect when folks win. And he was saying
there, he's like, yes, you came from nowhere, which is true. You were at 1 percent and all of a sudden, he wins.
NGO: A lot of it is about Trump liking a winner. A lot of it is about Trump liking a show. And certainly, in that press avail, he talked about the
interest from reporters, the hundreds that were gathered outside wanting to get in on this when more higher stakes meetings have been held in that same
space. He loves the attention. He wanted to share the limelight with Mamdani.
Mamdani came from far behind. I mean, he is a 34-year-old backbencher in the New York State legislature. He had not been expected to win the
primary, so he shocked the landscape there. And then he went on to win in the general election. So, yes, it is the president liking a winner. It is
the president liking to be aligned with winners.
SCIUTTO: And one might say that's kind of Trump's political heart too, right? Came out of nowhere in 2015, 2016.
[18:15:00]
Final question. Trump is known to change his mind. Might Mamdani want to be prepared for the end of the bromance?
NGO: Yes, and I do think that the mayor-elect is prepared. I can see a scenario where the president sees some of the press coverage about him
fawning over Mamdani. Maybe he'll get some phone calls from congressional Republicans, and he might roll this back and start to attack Mamdani. But I
do think that they've laid a foundation now with this meeting, with this press avail, on how they could govern together in the years to come and
work together. But they won't always be getting along.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Emily Ngo, thanks so much. Still ahead, Wall Street wraps up one of its most volatile weeks this year amid continuing fears about an
A.I. bubble. Why one leading economist says we may be in a rational bubble. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Brief. Another wild day on Wall Street. U.S. stocks got off a weak start, then finished strong. The exact
opposite of what happened Thursday. Wall Street still posted sizable losses for the week as a whole.
Comments today from New York Fed President John Williams helped pair those losses. He says he could support another rate cut in the near term to
address job market uncertainty. The debate over the Fed's next move has been a key driver of this week's market volatility, volatility, along with
concerns that A.I. stocks are trading in bubble territory.
The chief economic advisor at Allianz, Mohamed El-Erian, told Richard Quest earlier today that stocks may be in a, quote, "rational bubble."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISOR, ALLIANZ: Compare it to the other extreme, the tulip bubble. People were betting on tulips. That was
completely irrational. This is rational. There will be winners. But you're betting on many, many horses, a few horses will get enormous payoffs and
the rest are going to end up in the glue factory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Hard point is choosing. Also, today, an historic session for health care stocks. Eli Lilly finished the session with a market cap of $1
trillion. That's a thousand billion. It's the first drug stock ever to reach that milestone.
A new study says that London's New Bond Street is the world's most expensive retail destination now, beating out Milan's via Monte Napoleone.
[18:20:00]
The street in London's Mayfair district is home to some of the world's biggest luxury brands. They continue to pay massive rents, even as the
luxury sector faces huge economic headwinds. Anna Cooban shows us around.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: I'm standing on the most expensive retail strip in the world. New Bond Street in London has
overtaken Milan and New York as the priciest place to be selling stuff to the ultra-wealthy.
COOBAN (voice-over): According to a new report from commercial real estate company Cushman & Wakefield, rents over the last year on New Bond Street
increased by 22 percent to over $2,200 per square foot per year. Rents in New York on Upper Fifth Avenue stayed at around $2,000 per square foot. And
losing the top spot is Milan's fashion district, Via Monte Napoleone. Again, there have been no rent increases this year. So, why are these
luxury brands scrambling for a spot on this sidewalk?
COOBAN: Burberry, it's an iconic British fashion brand, and the company recently posted its first quarter of growth in two years. Now, its CEO
Joshua Schulman has talked recently about the importance of going back to basics, displaying the iconic scarves and trench coats in the shop windows.
And the report by Cushman & Wakefield has made it clear how important it is for brands to really lean into their flagship stores. Being in person,
smelling, touching, feeling the clothes, that is really good for business.
It's not just coats and scarves that are really pushing up the rents here. I'm here between Burlington Gardens and Clifford Street. Now, this is the
most hotly contested slice of retail real estate in the world right now, and it's where you get your diamonds.
COOBAN (voice-over): It's so easy to get swept up in the glitz and glamour before you remember the price tag. I guess I'll just settle for a spot of
window shopping.
COOBAN: Most people will do their shopping a stone's throw from here, either Oxford Street or Regent Street. But even there, there have been
double-digit rent increases. So, it's going to be an expensive Christmas, not just for shoppers, but for the shops.
Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: I won't be doing much shopping there. Check in some of today's other business headlines. Bitcoin is closing out one of its worst weeks in
years. The cryptocurrency has fallen some 10 percent since just Monday and is now trading near seven-month lows. Analysts say Bitcoin could have
further to fall if it breaks below the key $80,000 level, which it came close to doing earlier today. Crypto assets have fallen this week as
investors pull back on some of the riskier market bets.
The COP30 climate summit was supposed to have wrapped up by now in Brazil, but talks have headed into overtime as officials try to agree on a final
deal. A draft text of the deal contained no mention of how to cut fossil fuels to combat global warming. Many countries warn they couldn't support
the document. One negotiator says no mention of fossil fuels risks turning the conference into, quote, "a clown show."
Japan is now one step closer to reopening the world's largest nuclear power plant. A key regional governor approved the partial reopening of the plant
on Friday. It was shut down after the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011. Restarting the plant still needs final approval from other government
officials. Japan's new prime minister says she supports the increased use of nuclear power to help strengthen Japan's energy security.
Coming up on "The Brief," officials from Ukraine, Europe and the U.S. express concern, even outrage, at President Trump's pressure on Kyiv to
accept his peace proposal. The details after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Trump says Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy will have to like the latest U.S. peace proposal to end the war in Ukraine. The U.S.
president is pressuring Kyiv to accept the proposal that would require Ukraine making a series of concessions, including ceding more territory to
Russia and vowing not to join NATO. President Zelensky says his country has a choice between losing its dignity or a key ally.
President Donald Trump and New York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani met at the White House today. It was a happy meeting. Both said the meeting was
productive. President Trump said he and Mamdani, who he had previously called a communist multiple times could actually work together on crime,
housing and the cost of living in New York.
In Vietnam, torrential rains have caused deadly flooding and landslides. Dozens of people have lost their lives. In some towns, rainfall reached 1.5
meters. That's five feet. The storm has left more than half a million homes without power. There is no sign yet of that heavy rain letting up.
Now, to our exclusive investigation. CNN has found stunning evidence that police in Tanzania killed protesters following a disputed October election
there. Thousands of people had taken to the streets angry over those election results. A forensic examination of videos and satellite imagery
has now revealed police security forces opened fire on civilians who were demonstrated, as well as signs of mass graves.
Before we show you Larry Madowo's report, I need to give you a warning, some of the images are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Election Day, Tanzania, bloody scenes across the country. The streets have become a hunting ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what the police have done to the people.
MADOWO (voice-over): Security forces crack down on protesters, angry at the government of President Samia Suluhu Hassan amid claims of an unfair
election.
Three weeks on, the true scale of the bloodshed is still emerging. In an exclusive investigation, CNN analyzed dozens of videos showing protesters
shot and found evidence linking security forces to the killing of civilians, as well as signs of mass graves that conceal the extent of their
brutality. The main opposition party says at least 2,000 people were killed during the week-long protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need our freedom in my country. Why are you here? Why are you killing us?
MADOWO (voice-over): With eyewitnesses now too terrified to speak out, CNN, alongside open-source investigator Benjamin Strick, has examined what
happened across the country.
In the city of Arusha, forensic analysis of video reveals how two people died near this intersection. It's mid-afternoon. A group of protesters
gather at this corner as armed police approach. Note the man in the red T- shirt holding what appears to be a rock, who we'll come back to.
[18:30:00]
At this point, the police are here on the map. Two minutes later, chaos as people run down the street, the police advanced to the intersection. Then,
shots ring out.
The woman in purple, carrying a stick and a rock, is hit by a bullet in the back. You can see the hole in the fabric of her shirt here. She falls
instantly. People try to help her, as she lies bleeding, more gunshots.
A minute later, across the street, a group of men takes cover, among them the man with the red T-shirt.
From a video filmed on the other side of the road, we can see police in our position at the intersection, around 100 meters away. A protester shouts
profanity in their direction and then, the man in red is shot in the head.
Audio forensic analysis of these videos confirms the gunshots that killed both of these protesters came from the direction and distance of the police
position.
The woman in purple died from her injuries in the street. She was three months pregnant and was the breadwinner for her husband and two young
children, according to a source close to her family.
The man's wife shrieks in grief over his lifeless body. These two lives lost are just a fraction of the bloodshed across Tanzania over late October
and early November, as the government tries to stamp out the protests.
In Mwanza, Tanzania's second largest city, grim scenes outside the regional hospital. Bodies piled up. One doctor, who was too afraid to speak on
camera, told CNN the morgue was full from those killed during the crackdown, saying on one day alone, there were, quote, ""four trips with
piles of dead bodies taken to the mortuary, until it was full, just for others to be piled outside." He said when doctors tried to save the
wounded, quote, ""the police would refuse and take them to the mortuary directly for them to die there."
In Dar es Salaam, another morgue overwhelmed. The government called this video fake, but CNN verified the location as Mwananyamala Hospital. One
woman told CNN she recognized her missing brother among the dozens of bodies spread across the floor.
The scale of the killing may never be fully revealed. Police are accused of dumping bodies in mass graves in an effort to conceal numbers.
At this location north of Dar es Salaam, a video shows a wide area of freshly turned soil. This matches testimony shared with CNN that young men
were ordered to dig the site for mass burials. While CNN cannot independently verify the existence of mass graves, satellite imagery at the
Kondo Cemetery before and after the protests shows disturbance in the soil which supports the allegation.
The Tanzanian police and government have so far refused to confirm a death toll and dismissed the opposition's numbers as, quote, ""hugely
exaggerated." They did not respond to CNN's request for comment for this story.
For this devastated family, a burial of their missing loved ones' belongings is the nearest they will get to closure for now, as the final
fate of so many of Tanzania's young people remains unknown.
MADOWO: President Hassan has launched a commission of inquiry into the unrest across Tanzania, but she drew new outrage by suggesting that the
protesters were paid to go on the streets. Hundreds of young people have been charged with treason, an offense that carries the death penalty if
found guilty.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Johannesburg.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Such an important and disturbing story. Thanks to Larry Madowo. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: With news of President Trump's peace proposal for Ukraine, I spoke to multiple senior officials from Ukraine to Europe to Capitol Hill and
heard widespread outrage at the president's ultimatum to Kyiv.
Trump is stubbornly pushing Ukraine into capitulation and also humiliating Europeans, a Ukrainian military commander told me. The whole idea looks
naive and stupid. In deliberately colorful terms, Ukrainian member of parliament, Halyna Yanchenko, told me, quote, "It looks like they are
pissing on your boots and telling you it's raining."
In Washington, both Democrats and Republicans condemned the plan as reported. If this is indeed the plan, I am embarrassed for my country and
for our reputation across the world. Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley, who is co-chair of the House Ukraine Caucus, told CNN. Neville Chamberlain
would blush at this. Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick posted on X, quote, "This Russian drafted propaganda must be rejected and disregarded
for the unserious nonsense that it is. Noting Trump's interest in winning a Nobel Peace Prize for ending the war, Quigley added, you don't win it by
being a grand appeaser.
European officials are now scrambling to communicate to the White House with one voice, expressing their opposition to a deal that they see as
granting virtually all of Russia's demands while maintaining U.S. support for Ukraine at the same time, they hope. I hope it is not the victim that
has restrictions on its ability to defend itself, but it's the aggressor whose aggressive potential should be restricted, Polish Foreign Minister
Radoslaw Sikorski said.
Several European officials noted that today is when new U.S. sanctions on Russian oil companies take effect, accusing Russia of attempting to
encourage the U.S. to rescind those sanctions with talk of new negotiations. I hope we don't see today's decision that the sanctions are
postponed, the E.U.'s High Commissioner for Foreign Affairs and National Security, Kaja Kallas said, because then this is exactly what Russia wants.
The question I hear now is, can U.S. allies persuade President Trump to apply pressure not to Ukraine, but to Russia that, of course, began this
war with its full-scale invasion.
Joining me now, Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He sits on the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee for Defense. Senator, thanks so much for
joining tonight.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Great to be on with you.
SCIUTTO: So, you heard those reactions from across Europe. In your view, would this plan represent surrender?
COONS: Yes, this plan would sacrifice the years of hard work, fighting and blood by hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, and give Vladimir Putin what
he wants on a silver platter. This proposal couldn't be worse if it had literally been written by the Kremlin.
I'm at a summit in Halifax, Canada, with a bipartisan delegation of eight U.S. senators. We just finished meeting with a group of Ukrainian
parliamentarians, and there are folks here from the Canadian government and from a dozen other U.S. allies across the world. In general, there's
widespread concern, rejection, even despondency over this being the Trump administration's proposal, and a real hope that President Trump can be
talked out of it, because years of war should not result in the aggressor being rewarded and the victim being punished.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: I wonder if you're hearing there any sense that, listen, if this is Trump's position, then Ukraine and Europe have to go it on, go it alone,
in effect. Are you hearing that as a possibility, one? And two, do you think that's possible, doable, for Europe?
COONS: I don't think it's possible, and we, earlier today, had a discussion about how critical is U.S. support for Ukraine. Our intelligence support
for the Ukrainian warfighters is irreplaceable. Certainly, our partners and allies in NATO and in Europe can provide helpful tactical intelligence, but
the United States has an irreplaceable intelligence capability, communications capabilities, and military resupply capabilities.
Today, most of the cost of arming and supporting Ukraine is being borne by the Europeans. After a very successful NATO summit earlier this year, where
our NATO allies stepped forward and said they will take on much of the burden of European defense and of buying U.S. military hardware and
delivering it to the Ukrainians, I had thought we were moving in a positive direction.
And given that Trump seemed to have finally recognized that Russia is the aggressor that continues night after night to pound civilian targets in
Ukraine, I was hopeful that we were moving forward. But this latest move by Trump seems driven more by a lack of interest in a real, just, and lasting
outcome, and more motivated by an interest in just ending the fighting on any terms possible, as quickly as possible.
This will hurt Ukraine. This will hurt European security. This will hurt America's reputation around the world.
SCIUTTO: It's CNN's reporting that Trump wants to duplicate the success of the Gaza ceasefire somehow in Ukraine. I wonder, is there anything truly in
common, in your view, between these two conflicts? I mean, are those apples and oranges in effect?
COONS: These are fundamentally different conflicts. Russia unilaterally invaded Ukraine, a sovereign democracy, a country that the United States
has provided training and equipment to for years. Remember, Russia's initial invasion of Ukraine started more than a decade ago, in 2014, when
they seized Crimea, and then began to expand into the Donbass.
In 2022, Russia launched a broad spectrum, very significant invasion, the largest war in Europe since the Second World War. And our previous
president, Joe Biden, mobilized more than 50 countries worldwide to come to Ukraine's aid and support.
Our European allies and other countries around the world have provided tens of billions of dollars of support, of financial assistance, have welcomed
millions of refugees, and the Ukrainians have bravely fought the Russians to a standstill. They recaptured much of the territory, more than half,
that Russia initially occupied in 2022. And now, there is largely a stalemate.
This agreement would hand Russia territory of Ukraine that they haven't been able to conquer on the battlefield. It would hamstring Ukraine's
ability to defend itself in exchange for an ill-defined American security guarantee, and it would permanently take off the table any NATO membership
for Ukraine. This is not a good deal for Ukraine, for Europe, or the United States.
SCIUTTO: There is now talk of a discharge petition in the House to force a vote on new sanctions in Russia. And it was even, as I noted earlier in the
broadcast, a Republican member of the House, Brian Fitzpatrick, who brought that up again. Do you see Republicans, not just in the House but in the
Senate, among your Republican colleagues in the Senate, as willing to defy Trump potentially on Ukraine? I mean, we saw them defy him on Epstein.
Might they do the same here to pass a punishing sanctions bill?
COONS: I certainly hope so. Look, Senator Roger Wicker is the Republican chairman of the Armed Services Committee. He put out a very forceful
statement opposing this so-called peace plan earlier today. Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator from South Carolina, has worked hard with
Senator Dick Blumenthal of Connecticut, to put out a sanctions bill that would impose punishing sanctions on those countries that buy Russian oil,
that has more than 80 co-sponsors in the Senate.
So, I do think there are Republicans willing and able to speak up and to stand up for Ukraine in this moment, after so much blood has been shed and
so much fighting has been done by brave Ukrainian defenders. I don't understand why we would appease Putin's aggression now.
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Senator Chris Coons, we appreciate you taking time out of your Friday evening.
COONS: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, now to the occupied West Bank, where extremist Israeli settlers have set scores of cars on fire in the town of Huwara. Some 150
cars were destroyed in the attack at a scrapyard on Thursday. The owner says at least a dozen people attacked the site. This happened as the
Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was convening a security meeting on rising settler violence. And a new Human Rights Watch report
says Israel committed war crimes when it expelled 32,000 people from three refugee camps in the West Bank at the beginning of this year. Israel says
the camps posed security threats. Nic Robertson has the latest on the ongoing and growing settler violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's clearly an issue that's caught international attention. The U.N. has said since 2006 that
it's the highest level of settler violence, on average more than eight attacks a day. Last night there were more attacks, not just that scrap
dealer who had 150 cars incinerated, it's a scrap dealership, but so many Palestinians rely on these second-hand parts to keep their aging vehicles
running in the West Bank.
So, this was a source of income for his family, but it's a tactic that we've seen the settlers turning to more in recent weeks, targeting
businesses. It was a dairy distribution processing plant that was targeted last week, and as I say, some of the other places that were targeted last
night, again by settlers, were businesses.
I was in the West Bank just yesterday with a group of Israeli peace activists, and they had taken us there to show a pattern where they say
these groups of settlers that the prime minister calls a small group of extremists are now moving out of their targeting of sort of rural
Palestinian communities, small farmers, and are moving their attacks to sort of be more close to towns and putting more pressure on Palestinian
towns and businesses.
And I think one of the things that not just the Palestinians in the West Bank look for, or the Israeli peace activists look for, would be for the
prime minister to instruct his defense minister, Israel Katz, who when he took over the post late last year, one of the first things he did was to
remove administrative detention for the settlers.
Administrative detention is something that Israel uses a lot to hold Palestinians in detention in the West Bank, but many people see the absence
of that administrative detention for settlers as an implicit open door for them to continue, that there's no penalty for what they're doing.
Now, we've heard Avi Bluth, the IDF commander for the West Bank, calling the settlers, this violence, calling them anarchists. They've spray-painted
graffiti during one of their attacks, saying they don't care what he says. And I think it's risen to the level of concern here that you now have
opposition figures saying, look, we need to treat this settler violence, treat it as we would Palestinian terrorists, call it Jewish terrorism, and
treat them as such.
So, there is a lot more public debate and discourse about it, but aside from that government meeting last night, we're not seeing steps that people
could interpret as curtailing the freehand the settlers perceive that they have.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Nic Robertson there in Jerusalem. You are watching "The Brief." Please do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: The sequel to "Wicked" is finally in theaters just ahead of the holidays. It is one of Hollywood's most anticipated films per variety. The
movie has already made more than $30 million on previews alone. "Wicked: For Good," starring, of course, Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo, opens in
theaters across the U.S. and beyond today.
Joining me now, media journalist Segun Oduolowu, who's been watching very closely. So, my first question to you is, have you seen it yet? Because my
daughter actually has tickets for tomorrow afternoon and I might be going with her.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: OK. Jim, first, thank you for having me. Yes, I have seen it. And what I will tell you and your daughter,
be careful depending on how old she is. This second half of the movie of Wicked is darker than the first. It is stronger themes. There is fascism
and different political, you know, themology that comes out in this film.
So, if it's a young -- if your daughter is really young, it might not be for them. I'm not taking my five-year-old to see it. She can wait. Plus, I
don't think she's going to be able to sit through the two -- almost two and a half hours of filming.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because it's been split into two movies and we've seen this before with Hollywood. I mean, they did it with like the
"Mission Impossible" franchise, which is a way one might imagine to squeeze more money out of you and my pockets here. I mean, sure -- I mean, there's
no way otherwise it would have been like a five-hour long movie. But does it have like the material to be two movies?
ODUOLOWU: Well, the play itself, which is the source material, if people remember, was a two-hour play with a 15-minute intermission. We're getting
a five-hour movie series with a year intermission.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Does it have enough meat on the bone to keep you there? I'm going to say it really doesn't. The first -- "Wicked" part one was fantastic with
bigger songs and it sets the stage for what happens in this film. But the songs aren't as good. The storyline isn't as strong and it feels like
there's a hodgepodge of things thrown on screen to try and in that Hollywood parlance, go after the bag, maybe you're going to see another
remake of "The Wizard of Oz" later on as they add elements of Dorothy.
So, it felt a little money grabby to me. I think it missed the mark in some areas. And it has such a star-studded cast, Cynthia Erivo, as you
mentioned, Ariana Grande, Jeff Goldblum, Michelle Yeoh. Like it should -- there should have been a little bit more or a little bit better.
But listen, Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande, they can sing the dictionary to me and I'll happily give them my money.
SCIUTTO: So, final question, because I think I would call myself a traditional. I grew up watching "The Wizard of Oz." You know, we watch it
once a year on television back when people watched stuff on TV. So, I've always been a little skeptical of like, hey, wait, she was always the bad
guy, right? I mean, you know, that scared me when I was a kid.
Does this film take the story to, in effect, "The Wizard of Oz"? Does it kind of like clean the storylines up to get there?
ODUOLOWU: It starts the process of, oh, look, let's introduce Dorothy and this girl from Kansas and then there's going to be a back story. What
happened to the animals? Why couldn't they talk? And why did we get a tin man and the lion? And all of these things that we see in "The Wizard of
Oz." Yes, this movie is setting a stage for what comes next.
And I would bet dollars to donuts and my own yellow brick road that we're probably going to see another film, especially with what it's projected to
do at the box office this year.
SCIUTTO: I would probably bet along with you. Segun, thanks so much for joining. Have a good weekend.
ODUOLOWU: You as well.
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: A Superman comic has become the most expensive comic book in history. The first run edition of Superman number one sold for a record-
breaking $9 million this week. It was published back in 1939 by DC Comics, who are now owned by CNN's parent company, Warner Brothers. The historic
comic easily eclipsed the previous record, which was just $6 million. The sellers were three brothers who said they had no idea the magazine was in
the family until they came across it in mom's attic. She'd bought it back before World War II when it was being sold for just 10 cents. That's quite
a find in the attic.
In today's Good Brief, a pair of giant pandas in China having lunch and plenty of fun. This is Chun Ye and her younger brother Qiu Ye with sticks
of bamboo. Maybe the one of the six tastes better. Who knows? They were fighting like siblings do. The footage comes from the China Conservation
and Research Center for the giant panda, dedicated to the breeding and conservation of one or two, in this case, of China's, and I think one could
argue the world's, treasures.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciuto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Have a great weekend, and do stay with CNN.
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[19:00:00]
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