Return to Transcripts main page
The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: High-Rise Blaze in Hong Kong; At Least 44 Dead in Hong Kong Housing Complex Fire; Guardsmen Shot in Washington, D.C.; U.S. Special Envoy Under Fire Over Leaked Call; D.C. Suspect Apparently Targeted National Guard Troops; Hong Kong Apartment Complex Still Ablaze 16 Hours Later. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired November 26, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. We are
following two big stories this hour on "The Brief."
In Hong Kong, firefighters are still battling blazes, damaging several high-rise apartment buildings. Dozens of people have been confirmed killed.
Hundreds more remain missing. And in Washington, two National Guardsmen are in critical condition after they were shot not far from the White House.
Police are calling this a targeted attack. A suspect who was also shot is now in custody. We'll have more on that story in just a moment.
We do begin in Hong Kong, where the deadly fire has now been burning for more than 16 hours. It is now Thursday morning in Hong Kong. Authorities
have just given an update. They say the death toll now stands at least 44. We should note the complex was undergoing renovation at the time of the
start of the fire. Flames spread across bamboo scaffolding and construction netting that had been erected around the building. The towers are home to
some 4,000 people, many of them older than 65 years old.
Hong Kong police have arrested three men in connection with the fire, accusing them of gross negligence. Ivan Watson spent the night at the
scene, and he sent this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A raging inferno lighting up the Hong Kong sky. The deadliest fire the city has seen
in decades, engulfing a public housing development.
The fire was first reported in the afternoon at one end of the complex. But by the time firefighters arrived on the scene, the blaze had already spread
up a tower. It's unclear yet if the bamboo scaffolding and construction safety nets coating these buildings played a role in spreading the flames.
Authorities say they received calls from people trapped on higher floors. Some who did make it out say they had little time to escape.
HARRY CHEUNG, TAI PO DISTRICT RESIDENT (through translator): I suddenly heard a very loud noise. Then I looked outside, and I saw in the distance
that over by Block 5, there was a fire. So, I immediately went back home to pack up my things.
WATSON: The fire department says the flames have spread to seven of the complex's eight towers. And in these predawn hours, the fire continues to
burn out of control. Falling debris is making the firefighting more dangerous. At least one fireman has been killed battling this blaze.
DEREK AMRSTONG CHAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, HONG KONG FIRE SERVICES (through translator): First of all, for those who are still trapped in their homes,
the best thing to do now is to close all the doors and windows. Seal them up with tape and wet napkins. Call us and tell us your unit number and the
amount of people inside your apartment, and we will be in touch as soon as possible.
WATSON (voice-over): This disaster, a rarity for a city with a solid record for public safety. Roughly a third of the residents in these towers
are 65 and older, according to government data. And in a matter of a few hours, more than 4,000 people suddenly lost their homes. Hundreds now
moving to temporary shelters.
With dozens of people confirmed killed by this inferno, there are fears the death toll could continue to rise, since hundreds of residents still cannot
be contacted.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Just an awful fire. Well, joining me now is Xinyan Huang, associate professor of the Department of Building Environment and Energy
Engineering at Hong Kong Polytechnic University. Thanks so much for joining us this evening. Of course, this morning, your time. I wonder what your
thoughts are on --
XINYAN HUANG, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, THE HONG KONG POLYTECHNIC UNIVERSITY: Hi, Jim.
SCIUTTO: -- an initial focus of this investigation, and that is the bamboo scaffolding around the building, because, as you know, and I used to live
in Hong Kong, this is standard fare for scaffolding when buildings are under renovation. Was there something particularly risky that you can
identify here about the cause or the spread of this fire?
HUANG: Yes. The bamboo is definitely flammable material. And also, this is a very dry season in Hong Kong. So, the likelihood of the ignition of this
bamboo is very high. And once it's ignited, the fire spread will be super- fast.
SCIUTTO: Is there any are there any measures taken? Because this has been many decades Hong Kong has used this method for scaffolding. Is there any
method that's required to limit the possibility of spread if there is a fire that begins in the scaffolding?
HUANG: Unfortunately, it's not possible because the material is a flammable and this bamboo are vertically oriented. And so, the fire was
basically spreading up without any resistance.
[18:05:00]
And this is very similar to the other facade of fire with a flammable cladding. Once it's once ignited, there's no time for a firefighter to stop
the fire spread.
SCIUTTO: Yes. A lot of folks have made a comparison to the Grenfell fire, for instance, in London, where that outside cladding was so central. In
addition to this, this this is just an enormous complex. What -- is there any sign that there was not a plan in place to just get people out quickly,
right? I mean, the scale of this is just is just incredible.
HUANG: It's very difficult. And there are people who have mobile phone taking like videos of these burning fires. But as you know, you have these
scaffolding with plastic nets. It's actually difficult to see where exactly the flame is. You can see some light, but you don't know the exact location
because it's covered by the plastic net.
And even you know the fire, the time for people to evacuate from a 32-story building is essentially very slow. It takes at least 10, 20 minutes, but
the fire spread to the top like in five minutes or less.
SCIUTTO: Wow, that's incredible. Now, we understand police have arrested three people in relation to the fire. They're identified as two directors
and a consultant of the construction company. Based on what you see here, it seems they're being accused of gross negligence. Can you identify
possibilities as to what that negligence would be?
HUANG: So, there are some videos online showing people's the construction workers smoking in the sites near the bamboo scaffolding. But that's one
possibility. There may be other welding, cutting that can generate metal particles that are potential ignition sources. But all these are suspicious
right now. We don't have the direct evidence.
But overall, I think the cause of the fire is not so critical because the building is designed to handle random fire incidents, but it is not
designed to handle such a fast fire spread outside the building and eventually spread back into the building. This is not something is
considered in the building fire code. Very similar to the Grenfell Tower fire in London.
SCIUTTO: Xinyan Huang, thanks so much for joining. We'll continue to monitor developments there.
Well, now to Washington, D.C., where officials say the two National Guardsmen are in critical condition after they were shot hours ago. Not far
from the White House, the assistant police chief explained the details of what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY CARROLL, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CHIEF, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: At approximately 2:15 this afternoon, members of the D.C. National Guard
were on high visibility patrols in the area of 17th and I Street Northwest. When a suspect came around the corner, raised his arm with a firearm and
discharged it at the National Guard members. The National Guard members, there were other members that were in the area, they were able to -- after
some back and forth, able to subdue the individual and bring him into custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We do now have video taken just moments after the attack. It shows the police responding. I just want to warn you, some viewers may find
it disturbing. As you watch this video, you can see the police in the background of the victim is blurred, administering first aid to one of the
downed guardsmen. Officials say they will treat this shooting as an assault on a federal law enforcement officer. Have a listen to the mayor of D.C.,
Muriel Bowser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURIEL BOWSER, WASHINGTON, D.C. MAYOR: This is a targeted shooting. One individual who appeared to target these guardsmen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining us now from the scene is Brian Todd. Brian, obviously a shocking event downtown D.C. before a holiday quite close to the White
House. What are police telling you there now?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, they are still trying to ascertain a motive for this shooting. They were not able to answer that
question when they spoke to reporters a short time ago.
Let me set the scene for you a little bit here. We're at 17th and K Street Northwest. The shooting basically occurred right over there. We have a very
good vantage point at this point. These are two uniformed Secret Service officers in the foreground. A lot of police vehicles here.
[18:10:00]
Now, right behind them, that's the corner of 17th and I Street, that's where Jeff Carroll, the executive assistant chief of the D.C. Metropolitan
Police, you just ran a clip of him, he said that the shooting occurred basically right there at that corner.
And I can tell you also, Jim, that just a short time ago you see that tow truck there, that tow truck arrived a short time ago. Now, whether it's
here to maybe block the roads or possibly tow away a vehicle associated with this crime is unclear. We're asking around about that, about whether
the suspect may have a vehicle that is related to this shooting.
A couple of other details, we can tell you that according to FBI Director Kash Patel, the two National Guardsmen who were shot are now in critical
condition. That's a key piece of information because earlier today, West Virginia Governor Patrick Morrisey had posted a message saying that the two
National Guardsmen who are from the West Virginia National Guard had died as a result of the shooting. Then he went back on that and said that their
conditions were unknown. And just a short time ago we got the update from Kash Patel that the two Guardsmen are in critical condition.
They are treating this as an assault on a federal officer, according to Kash Patel. And according to the D.C. Assistant Police Chief Jeff Carroll,
this occurred at about 2:15 p.m. Eastern time when, again, right over my right shoulder, he says the gunman came around a corner, raised a firearm,
discharged the weapon at the National Guardsmen. After some, quote, "back and forth," he said, that suspect was pinned to the ground. He was taken
into custody.
One -- at least one law enforcement source has told us that the suspect was taken away on a stretcher, so the suspect could have sustained some
injuries there. A law enforcement source also telling CNN that the suspect is not cooperating with law enforcement at this time.
We also spoke to two eyewitnesses, Jim, who said that they heard the gunshots and then turned and faced this area behind me and saw, one of them
said he saw a man on the ground on his stomach with his hands behind his back. He assumed that was the shooter, and he was being held down by at
least one person. And one lady said that she turned and saw, quote, "a bunch of people" administering CPR to someone who was on the ground.
Neither of the witnesses could make out who the victims were who were being tended to. We assume, of course, those were the Guardsmen who were hit.
Jim.
SCIUTTO: Brian Todd, thanks so much. Well, joining me now, Kristen Holmes, traveling with the president to Florida. And, Kristen, this is, we've heard
several reactions from the president, of course, sadness for the condition of the soldiers, but also, we're hearing from the administration that now
they plan to send more Guardsmen to D.C.?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. So, we actually heard from the secretary of defense today, Pete Hegseth,
who said that President Trump has now ordered, in light of the shooting, 500 additional troops to be on the ground in Washington, D.C. And according
to Hegseth, this is to ensure that the city stays both beautiful and safe.
I had spoken to a number of people who work within the D.C. government, as well as first responders who work for the D.C. government, not federal, who
said that they thought earlier this was likely going to be the case. They saw that this was where this was going next in terms of President Trump's
actions.
We've heard President Trump now a number of times, as you noted, commenting on this, really providing information almost as though he is briefing
directly the public from information he's getting. He was the first one who told us, the public, that two National Guardsmen had been hurt and were in
critical condition and that the suspect was also in critical condition. And as that happened, he also vowed retribution when it came to making sure
that that suspect was punished.
We won't see the president again tonight. He -- they've issued a travel photo lid. That's essentially what they do when there's no more public
appearances by the president. But it is still possible that we'll see another post on Truth Social. What we've come to kind of expect from
President Trump is, in these big, tragic situations, he ends up kind of being the communicator in addition to law enforcement, giving out
information as he gets briefed. So, we will, of course, wait and see if we hear from him again tonight.
But I know the White House is following this very closely. A lot of questions right now within the White House but also the administration as a
whole as to what the motive is. And it doesn't seem clear at this point, I've talked to a number of sources who say they're still trying to work
through that, they're still looking for the answers as to how exactly this unfolded. Obviously, we have our source accounts. We have information from
sources saying that this might have been targeted and certainly seemed that way, given what happened with this suspect just approaching these two
guards and shooting them. But that doesn't really answer the question of motive, of why he did this.
And this idea of these National Guard troops on the ground in Washington has become a political flashpoint for so many, I know you've talked to
Brian Todd, he has spent a lot of time covering this, he's talked to these National Guard members who have been spat at, who have been told to leave
and called names, that's not everybody. It's not that everybody feels that way.
[18:15:00]
But it has turned into kind of a political symbol when President Trump brought them in to kind of fight his crime agenda in Washington, D.C. So,
that's, of course, on everyone's mind. Is that part? Is there a political agenda to this? And just the proximity of where this happened, so close to
the White House. Did that play into why this person chose these two guardsmen, for example? So, there's still a lot of unanswered questions.
But, again, the White House is following this really closely.
And as you've noted and as you've seen, the administration as a whole, this is an all-hands-on-deck situation. It's not, you know, just FBI, it's not
just DHS, you are seeing members of every law enforcement agency on the ground in Washington, D.C., briefing the press but also working this case.
So, they're taking this very seriously. And it just goes to show you, again, how closely they're following this.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though, Kristen, because a federal judge recently ruled that the prior deployment of National Guard troops to D.C.
was illegal. Trump is ordering more to come to the city. Is this a fight with the courts that the president and the administration wants?
HOLMES: Yes. And this has been a fight, just to be clear, that they've wanted with the president and the courts. And I do have something on that
that I was just looking at. Because the Trump administration, about 30 minutes ago, filed an emergency motion to keep the National Guard in D.C.
This was a response to what you were talking about there after the courts had said that they shouldn't be in Washington, D.C. They are obviously
using the events of today as reasoning to be in the District of Columbia saying that it is unsafe and they need more National Guard troops. So, that
is the latest in the court side of all of this.
But, again, to be clear, they've wanted to take the courts on this. This is a fight that they are not only willing to have but eager to have. And one
that they do eventually think that they can be successful at. Now, they actually have an event, a tragic event, a killing of two National Guardsmen
that they will point to and say that this is the kind of crime happening in D.C. And the only way to fix it is to make sure the National Guard stays in
the district.
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, thanks so much. Well, joining me now is a former New York Police Department detective, Andy Bershad. Andy, good to have you.
ANDY BERSHAD, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Thank you, Jim. Good to be here.
SCIUTTO: A shocking event for all involved residents of D.C., the country, of course, to have uniformed U.S. military members of the National Guard
targeted like this. First, I'd like to ask your -- a question, I mean, again, they're looking at motive here. But given that the guardsmen are a
symbol of a policy, right, in effect, they're a symbol of a policy of this administration to deploy uniformed forces to U.S. streets, I imagine that
authorities will be looking into a political -- potential political motive to an attack like this if it does indeed turn out to be targeted, as we've
been hearing.
BERSHAD: Well, I guess as the investigation continues, the political motives will be determined. The bottom line, it was a uniformed presence of
authority that came under attack sheer for being for enforcing -- however they were placed there, decided to put there in any uniform that shows
authority. They were placed in for whatever reason, if they were redeployed. Remember, they are civilian soldiers, you know, certainly
federal. And it'll up the game. And, you know, obviously, the political tones will always be kind of dancing around, if you will.
SCIUTTO: There have been questions as to what the role is of these forces in D.C. Is it law enforcement? Is it largely a visible presence? And law
enforcement officials I've spoken with have at least raised the question how that then impacted the security footing of these soldiers. I live in
D.C. and I've seen them around town. They largely seem to be standing around quite casually, right?
Could a question about mission or should questions about their security posture be asked? You know, were they looking out for an attack such as
this or was their guard down?
BERSHAD: Oh, I think -- I mean, in New York City, I spent almost 30 years with the New York City Police Department and 20 with the Emergency Service
Unit, we had National Guard deployed numerous times during major events, during train operations in large community areas. I don't know their role
specifically, but for us in New York, it was much more of a presence to be a deterrent to additional crime going on.
I certainly don't want to hit the political aspect of why they were exactly deployed. But I found from my experience when we had them in the city, if
I'm a bad guy, I'm going to be a little less to act up. If I see an adult there, an authoritative figure not knowing exactly their role, can they
come arrest me? Are they going to interfere? Can I just go commit some serious crime, a seven-index crime without any ramifications? I would
believe that that's part of it.
[18:20:00]
And also, to free up your regular local patrol, whether it be D.C. or any of the other National Guard deployments to free up your local officers to
be able to do the day-to-day ops and forced crime, answer radio runs, the day-to-day operations that are going to continue regardless through the
major crimes, the minors as well.
SCIUTTO: Andy Bershad, thanks so much for joining.
BERSHAD: Thank you so much for having me, Jimmy. Have a great day.
SCIUTTO: You too. Well, coming up next, we will tell you what President Donald Trump's special envoy is reported to have said in a leaked
conversation with a top Russian official. And what kind of advice he gave him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: President Donald Trump is dismissing criticism over a leaked phone call between his special envoy and longtime friend Steve Witkoff and
a top Russian official. According to the transcript obtained by Bloomberg, Witkoff appeared to advise the Russian aide on exactly how to approach
President Trump on negotiations. The president says the comments were, quote, "standard negotiation." The Kremlin says the leak shows people will,
quote, "stop at nothing to disrupt the peace process."
Many Republicans and Democrats have criticized both the conversation and Trump's initial peace plan. Joining me now, Kurt Volker, former U.S.
ambassador to NATO. Ambassador, good to have you on.
KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR UKRAINE NEGOTIATIONS AND SENIOR ADVISER, ATLANTIC
COUNCIL: Thank you very much. Great to be with you.
SCIUTTO: So, first question is a very basic security question, would you have such a sensitive conversation with a senior official of an American
adversary, mind you, on an unsecured line?
VOLKER: Definitely not. And I think you put your finger on it. Russia is an adversary. They are the aggressor in Ukraine. They are committing war
crimes, killing civilians. They're the ones who created this war and want to continue this war. So, we have to be very careful about how we deal with
Russia. This is an adversary of the United States.
So, I can see how someone like Witkoff is trying to help his interlocutors be successful in talking to President Trump. A lot of people, a lot of
diplomats will do that in many countries around the world.
[18:25:00]
The difference is that this is Russia. This is our adversary. This is someone who wants to break up NATO, to take over Ukraine, to weaken the
United States and to be coaching them. That is a bit of an issue. And to be aligning the U.S., seeing the U.S. as being divvied up, that's also a
problem.
SCIUTTO: As you read those comments there, I mean, the thing is, it looks like the advice worked, right? Because Putin did call Trump before Trump
spoke to Zelenskyy on that day. And after that call -- before the call, President Trump was talking about, at least, sending Tomahawk missiles to
Ukraine. Afterward, he wasn't. I mean, that at least gives the impression, does it not, that the advice worked and helped move the President closer to
Moscow's position?
VOLKER: That's right. And so, to put what you just said into, you know, more specific words, this is helping a foreign adversary influence the
president of the United States to do a different decision than what he was otherwise going to do. So, that's what's troubling a lot of people in
Washington this week.
That being said, if you remember how this played out after that, Putin then promised a summit meeting in Budapest. Trump, wary of his experience with
Putin in Alaska, didn't want to just repeat the same thing, asked Rubio to meet with Lavrov and figure out, OK, are we going to have a successful
meeting? Lavrov was very clear, told Rubio, nope, we're going to just demand our maximalist expectations. Rubio reported this. The summit was
canceled. And it was after that, when the Budapest summit was canceled, that the Russians sent Dmitriyev to Florida to meet with Witkoff to see if
they could go around Rubio and a different route into the administration.
SCIUTTO: Big picture, though, where do you see the president leaning right now? Because he's back to using language that's somewhat reminiscent of the
language we heard in that awful Oval Office meeting with Zelenskyy back in February. Over the weekend, you had him tweeting about not getting
sufficient gratitude from Ukraine. And multiple times he seems to be communicating it's his view that Ukraine is losing and they better make a
deal now closer to Russia's terms or they might lose more territory.
I mean, do you see the president getting pulled back that way? Because some Republican lawmakers are saying that out loud.
VOLKER: Yes. Well, this was a few days ago now. And since then, we've had Rubio negotiate an arrangement with the Ukrainians and the Europeans to
take this abominable plan that the U.S. presented and turn it into a plan that's acceptable to Ukraine, our allies, and ourselves. And this is now
going to be presented to Russia. Witkoff is going to Russia again and also to Ukraine formally with Dan Driscoll going there. And I'm confident that
Russia will be, again, the party who is rejecting a reasonable deal that everybody else agrees on.
So, I think, yes, you heard this rhetoric from the president, but the president's interest has been unchanged. He wants peace. He believes it's
reasonable. It's unreasonable to continue the war. It is reasonable to have peace. And he expects everybody to do it.
And Ukraine, every step of the way, has said they want peace, too. They never wanted this war. They never wanted to be attacked. They would like to
see a ceasefire right away. And it is always Putin who ends up avoiding that.
SCIUTTO: Do you see that, before we go, continuing? I mean, do you see any change or indication of a change in Putin's position here, openness or lack
of openness to a genuine negotiation?
VOLKER: There'll be no change in Putin's position until he begins to feel pressure, that he's got to see that there is force, economic or military,
arrayed against him that he will not be able to deal with. So, until he feels that kind of pressure, he's going to continue doing exactly what he's
doing. That's why the secondary sanctions in the bill that Lindsey Graham and my Bucks County representative from Congress, they've proposed --
SCIUTTO: Fitzpatrick.
VOLKER: Yes, Fitzpatrick, the bills that they've proposed, those are important because they will apply secondary sanctions on those who are
continuing to funnel money to Russia. And then also the long-range ammunition and defense systems that Ukraine needs to hit deep inside
Russia. So, those two things, the economic side, go after Russia's finances with secondary sanctions. And on the military side, make sure Ukraine can
hit deep inside Russia, those military installations that are being used to attack Ukraine. That may finally get Putin's attention.
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Ambassador Kurt Volker, thanks so much for joining.
VOLKER: My pleasure. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we will have more news just after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Returning now to one of our top stories, we're learning new details about the shooting in Washington, D.C. The FBI director says the
two National Guardsmen are in critical condition. Police say the suspect opened fire while the guardsmen were performing what's known as high
visibility patrols, basically a show of force presence in the capital.
Our next video in the wake of the shooting is disturbing, we should warn you. These are images of police administering CPR to what appears to be one
of the wounded National Guardsmen on the ground next to a bus stop there that appears to show shattered glass, perhaps from gunfire. Police now have
the suspect in custody. There is no indication of other suspects, this according to police.
Joining us now as the investigation begins is former Minneapolis police chief Medaria Arradondo. Good to have you on. Thanks so much for joining.
MEDARIA ARRADONDO, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, if this has happened in Minneapolis when you were in charge there, what would be your first steps right now?
ARRADONDO: Well, Jim, unfortunately, back in April of 2021, we actually did have someone fire upon four National Guardsmen in one of their
personnel vehicles while they were doing patrols and at a post in Minneapolis. Fortunately, they were not seriously injured and wounded. So,
this has happened.
I think the first thing, obviously, is that we should all be just really praying for these two citizen soldiers for their full recovery. As many
millions of Americans are starting to gather for tomorrow's Thanksgiving, we just really want to be thinking about them and their families at this
moment.
[18:35:00]
But I think the first thing, Jim, is it what you're actually going to be seeing in D.C. Metro. Assistant Chief Carroll mentioned this. DC Metro is
right now conducting their criminal investigation, as well as Director Kash Patel of the FBI. They will have launching a parallel federal
investigation.
And so, those investigations are going to be critical, getting evidence at the scene, 17th Street, 9th Street there in the district there in D.C. And
so, collecting evidence. You mentioned a tow truck was recently out there at the scene, talking with witnesses, gathering as much CCTV surveillance
video that they can get. And obviously, at some point, search warrants being conducted.
And so, the case is going to still continue, even though it's been reported by D.C. Metro that the suspect in custody is not cooperating with
investigators. That's not as important right now as those entities, both D.C. Metro and our federal partners, conducting their ongoing
investigation. So, that's going to be critical.
SCIUTTO: The president claims this is about keeping D.C. safe. And he's already announced -- his defense secretary has announced, that they're
going to send more, 500 more National Guardsmen. From a law enforcement perspective, and I know you don't serve in D.C., but you did serve in a
performing an essential law enforcement role?
ARRADONDO: Well, certainly we know that these two National Guardsmen were actually specially deputized as U.S. Marshals, and they were performing,
they were armed, they were performing in a sort of law enforcement capacity during these D.C. safe and beautiful patrols. So, they certainly were.
You know, Jim, I think that unfortunately, in this climate today in America, our citizen soldiers and airmen have been politicized. But we have
to constantly just remember that whatever disagreements we may have politically, they're just out there. They're following their direct orders.
They're trying to help out in whatever ways that they can. And so, we should not place any sort of what a person's individual grievances may be
jeopardizing their safety.
And so, I think that, again, whether it's D.C., whether it was back in Minneapolis, I think that the ways these sorts of collaborations work best
is when there's collaboration, when there's a shared communication, when there's mission critical, everyone's on the same page, everyone knows what
their rules of engagement are. And so, you'll continue to see that moving forward. But I just want to highlight that under such a highly politicized
time that we're living in right now in America, unfortunately, many of our National Guard citizen soldiers have been sort of thrown into that. And
that's unfair to them.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Medaria Arradondo, thanks so much for joining.
ARRADONDO: Thank you, Jim. Happy Thanksgiving to you.
SCIUTTO: You too and your family. Well, joining me now on the legal questions here, former federal prosecutor Gene Rossi. Gene, good to have
you, because it does look like we're going to be headed for another chapter of the legal debate over the deployment of uniformed military on American
streets, because the defense secretary, as I noted there, has announced they're going to send 500 more. This, even as a D.C. judge, has ruled the
existing deployment illegal. Where does the law stand on this right now?
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AND FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA: Well, I just want to say this about the
suspect who was arrested, Jim. The government -- the U.S. Attorney's Office has 48 hours to file charges against him. That's number one. And number
two, they probably have set up a war room in the U.S. Attorney's Office and at the Justice Department to write search warrants for various social
media, emails, cell phones, things like that.
But the other thing I would stress is this. Is he alone -- this alleged shooter, is he alone in doing this? Is he a lone ranger? Was there anybody
who helped him, conspired with him, aided and abetted? I would want to know that, because this is such an egregious, horrific act, attempted murder or
murder, depending on the condition of the two guardsmen. But that would be my focus, to see if this is part of any plot to engage in violence against
the National Guard.
Regarding the politics of it, I'm going to stay away from that. There are strong views on both sides, whether this helped D.C. attack crime or did it
just fuel the flames. I would focus on whether he was alone or did he conspire or have somebody aiding and abetting his horrific act.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes, I'm not asking about the politics, I'm asking about the legality of the deployment, right? Because the administration is saying
it's going to deploy more, even as the question of the initial legality of the deployment is still in question, or at least not in question, our
judges ruled it illegal. But on this individual, the suspect here now, charged as assault of a federal law enforcement officer, I imagine that's
deliberate, does that give a path to certain penalties?
ROSSI: Oh, you mean in terms of the crimes that are charged against him?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ROSSI: Right.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ROSSI: Yes. There will be enhanced penalties. When you take the life of a federal law enforcement officer, that just takes it up a notch. And you'll
have hate crimes, you'll have enhancements. Academically, if the guardsmen pass away, you could seek the death penalty. But in D.C., that probably
won't be done. But it does change the dynamics and the whole options that the U.S. attorney could charge.
But this could be a terrorist act, it could be a conspiracy. It could be one just sole lone ranger, but he would be facing presumption of innocence,
he would be facing an allegation of enhanced charges and penalties. Absolutely, because it's two federal guards.
SCIUTTO: Gene Rossi, thanks so much for joining.
ROSSI: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Returning now to our other top story in Hong Kong, as the city deals with a fire that is continuing to burn there some 16 hours later, the
deadliest in Hong Kong, it appears since World War Two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: We're returning now to Hong Kong where at least 40 people have died, nearly 300 remain missing. After a fire has engulfed multiple
apartment buildings, you see them still smoldering there as the sun rises in the morning on Thursday.
Hours later, firefighters still on the scene. You can see from these images the scale of the task those firefighters are facing. The fire department
says they're concentrating their efforts on three of the seven blocks affected while the blaze has been brought under control at the other four.
Rescuers are working to reach residents on the higher floors who've now been trapped for more than 12 hours. Many believe to be elderly.
[18:45:00]
Authorities are investigating the cause of the fire. Police have arrested three men accusing them of manslaughter in relation to the incident. Three
men working for the construction company. Earlier my colleague Paula Newton spoke to Glenn Corbett, an associate professor of fire science at John Jay
College, a former firefighter himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN CORBETT, FIRE SCIENCE ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE AND FORMER NEW JERSEY FIREFIGHTER: Certainly, you know, the fact that it's
still burning tells me that the fire, as I would suspect, burned not only up the outside of the building but then burned into the individual
apartments on each of these floors. This is very reminiscent of the Grenfell fire in London back in 2017 where this was primarily an exterior
fire that made its way into the interior. It's very, very much like this.
The fact that we had, in this case, apparently of course the bamboo scaffolding, which of course is wood, it's combustible, as well as the
netting which is probably polyethylene which is plastic which is also combustible, provide the fuel.
And the fact that, you know, it spread from one building to another tells me that they were close enough that the heat of the fire on the exterior of
the original fire building was able to ignite the netting and the scaffolding on these adjacent buildings.
So, you know, one important point that was brought up here recently is the fact that, you know, in -- virtually every high-rise apartment fire we
always advise residents to stay where they are unless directed to leave. But that proved to be the wrong strategy at Grenfell because people,
there's no time for them, for the firefighters to -- literally there's no ability for the firefighters to extinguish the exterior fire, get to them
quickly. So, I think this is -- that issue will come up as well.
And you mentioned also that three people were arrested. We don't know exactly what their connection to the fire was, if they were contractors or
if they were setting these fires intentionally or whatever, but all that will need to be looked at. But I would suggest to the Hong Kong Fire
Service that they take the time to do a deep study of what happened here, including not just the building itself and the scaffolding and those
issues, but also the response here of what directions we're giving to the occupants of these buildings.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, absolutely, because it's so terrifying. And as you mentioned that tragic fire from 2017, more than 70 people killed in
London. And so, much from that investigation was learned in terms of how it was ignited and how, crucially, as you explain, it spread. If we take what
we learned in that fire to this, OK, we had the scaffolding, we had some kind of a mesh around it as well.
But I think you've hit the nail on the head there. We have eyewitness reports of people saying they didn't know what was going on. They were in
another apartment complex, had plenty of time to evacuate. But they report not hearing any alarm, not having anyone go door to door to tell them, get
out. It is not safe. Your building may not be burning, but you are in danger.
CORBETT: Right. And, you know, that is an issue around the world. Even in New York City, we tried to get a retrofit public -- one-way public-address
system into existing high rises. And we couldn't get it done because of the pushback from the real estate industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now on the phone from Hong Kong is Hanako Montgomery. Hanako, what are you learning speaking to authorities there about the
response to this fire?
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jim. So, we just landed in Hong Kong. I'm actually calling from a cab right now. So, please excuse any
audio issues. But the fire is pretty far from where we are. Still it's blazing in the north of the island. But I can tell you that already we are
seeing some traffic signs warning of closed roads because of this fire.
Now, as you mentioned, this is the deadliest fire since World War II. And even though fires have been extinguished at four buildings at this complex,
three are still ablaze. And this fire has been going on for more than 16 hours now. We don't know how many people are still trapped in the higher
floors. And local authorities are telling us that it's really difficult to get to these higher floors because it's just so hot, right? The fire is
just so hot that it's difficult for even emergency responders to get up to these higher grounds.
Now, the Chinese President Xi Jinping expressed his condolences to the victims and their families on Wednesday. He also urged an all-out effort to
put out the fire and minimize casualties and losses.
Now, Jim, the authorities haven't told us the definitive cause of this fire yet. It's still under investigation. But we do know that this complex was
under construction, as we just heard from an expert there. And authorities have identified that, at these construction sites, really highly flammable
materials were being used, like plastic covers, another type of Styrofoam, and also plastic canvases.
[18:50:00]
Now, most importantly, these buildings had bamboo scaffolding. And as we know, bamboo is wood. It's also, again, highly flammable. And even though
bamboo scaffolding is an iconic part of Hong Kong and has been widely used for scaffolding for many, many years here in the city, because of how
combustible this material is and given its safety concerns, the city government actually announced in March that it planned to phase out this
material. So, again, lots of questions still about what caused this fire and if it was even preventable.
Now, I should also note that Hong Kong is a really highly densely populated city. It's one of the most densely populated areas in the world. And it
also just has a lot of high rises. But, you know, cases like these are pretty unheard of because of how safe the city is, because of just how high
the building standards and construction standards are. And really, again, it has pretty excellent safety standards.
So, the fact that this fire has been raging for more than 16 hours, claiming dozens and dozens of lives, and there is fear that there are still
more potentially trapped upstairs in these high rises, is certainly a very frightening moment for Hong Kong, Jim.
SCIUTTO: No question. Hanako Montgomery, just arriving in Hong Kong, thanks so much.
Thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. We'll, of course, continue to follow these breaking news stories.
I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. You've been watching The Brief. I'll be right back with "Outfront" in just a few minutes. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:55:00]
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: -- on guard following today's shooting in Washington, D.C., two national guardsmen shot in what officials are calling
an ambush attack near the White House. The New York police commissioner writing on X quote, "This is yet another horrific reminder of the dangers
that members of law enforcement face every time they put on their uniform. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and coordinate with our
partners in D.C." She also wrote that, at this time, there is no known nexus to New York City.
Back with me this hour, Daniel Brunner, retired FBI special agent. So, Dan, we look at this shooting, of course, happening on Thanksgiving Eve. There
are a number of large events across the country. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, one of the largest here in New York City. But you've got
parades across the country, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, multiple NFL games. What does this change potentially in terms of security at some of these
events?
DANIEL BRUNNER, PRESIDENT, BRUNNER SIERRA GROUP LLC AND RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I think that all these locations will have an increased sense of
security. They're all going to be looking out for the normal things. But that's the thing, is they've prepared for these things. They've prepared
for these events. The FBI divisions around the country have a command post on standby to be able to react to these events. Local law enforcement, they
have increased security at events in New York City at the Macy's Day Parade, that's going to be the epicenter of attention. That's going to have
increased. But they've already prepared for it as a major event. So, I don't believe that anybody is going to increase security.
In addition, the JTTF, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, in Washington Field Office, is clearly investigating this. If they develop new leads to new
locations or other individuals that may have assisted this shooter, then that will change the dynamic in those locations. But I don't think across
this country we won't have to and I don't think we need to elevate our alerts.
HILL: What about in Washington, D.C. specifically? We know the president is saying that he would like another 500 additional National Guard troops
in the district. As we wait to see where that goes, do you think that folks there will see an increased presence starting tonight? I should say a
broader law enforcement.
BRUNNER: I think out of an abundance for caution -- yes, I believe out of an abundance for caution, just like anywhere else, if there's an incident,
the law enforcement entities around that location do increase security for just in case there is another individual part of this cell. If it is a
group of individuals or copycats, there's going to be an increased scrutiny, there's going to be increased law enforcement presence.
Follow-on attacks, we've seen that traditionally in other attacks and other types of incidents where there may be a secondary attack. So, I think that
in Washington, D.C., yes, I think they --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
