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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: U.S. Seizes Crude Oil Tanker Off Venezuela; Maduro Holds Rally as Opponent Awarded Nobel Peace Prize; Russia Welcomes New U.S. National Security Strategy; Nobel Peace Prize Winner Heads to Oslo; Denmark Sees U.S. as Potential Security Concern; Canada's Effort to Recruit Overseas Researchers. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired December 10, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, unfolding military action by the United States off the coast of Venezuela. President Trump confirms a large crude oil tanker
has been seized by the U.S. The daughter of a Venezuelan opposition leader accepts this year's Nobel Peace Prize in Norway. Maria Corino Machado is
expected to make her own appearance in Oslo shortly. And as the U.S. unveils a new national security strategy critical of Europe, Denmark is
labeling the United States a security concern for the first time. That story and plenty more coming up.
First off, our lead, the U.S. has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela as Washington dials up the pressure on Caracas. U.S. Attorney
General Pam Bondi shared this video saying the FBI, Homeland Security, and the Coast Guard, with support from the Pentagon, carried out a seizure
warrant for that crude oil tanker, which was transporting sanctioned oil from Venezuela, they say, to Iran. A source tells CNN the tanker was on its
way to Cuba.
The attorney general says, quote, "For multiple years the oil tanker has been sanctioned by the United States due to its involvement in an illicit
oil shipping network supporting foreign terrorist organizations." Here's how President Trump described it earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As you probably know, we've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela. A large tanker, very large. Largest one ever seized, actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Thousands of Venezuelans marched in Caracas showing their continuing support for the president, Nicolas Maduro. The Venezuelan leader
spoke to CNN during the rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our message to the people of the United States remains the same, peace. Peace above all
else. No to crazy war. No to bloodshed for oil. No to war for oil, the recipe for eternal wars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes joins me now from the White House. And, Kristen, as you know, the administration has successively described its pressure
campaign off of Venezuela as being about drugs, as being about forcing Maduro from power. Explain how this oil tanker fits into this.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is clearly part of a maximum pressure campaign against Maduro. One of the
things that we had heard from administration officials and U.S. officials was this idea that it's not just about putting the pressure directly on
Maduro. It's also about putting the pressure on people around Maduro, on people who do business with Maduro and with Venezuela, which is certainly
what this seems to be about today.
We're trying to see if we can glean more details about the reasoning, how they came up with this idea. Specifically, as you noted, they were able to
obtain a warrant from a federal judge on this tanker because it had previously been associated with Iranian oil. That is how they then came to
seize this. We saw the Coast Guard there, the Navy assisted with this, we are told.
But again, there are still going to be a lot of questions as to whether or not this is just part of the next step of this escalation in this pressure
campaign. We have been told that this is likely to be just the first of many seizures of oil tankers. And we do know, of course, that Venezuela
does so much business when it comes to its oil. But that's one of the things that the U.S. has, or at least U.S. officials have talked about, is
a future in which Maduro is not in power and Venezuela has a deal with the U.S. regarding oil, or a bigger deal with the U.S. regarding oil.
So, look, there are still a lot of questions as this is unfolding. We don't know exactly who owned this. But I will tell you this, Jim. I was told two
weeks ago Trump spoke to Maduro on the phone, and I was told at that time that he gave somewhat of an ultimatum to Maduro, essentially saying it is
better for you or it is best for you to step down and leave this country.
[18:05:00]
Unclear if this direct seizure was part of that ultimatum. But clearly, they are kind of moving into a new phase. And one of the things we've heard
from President Trump time and time again is this threat of these land strikes in Venezuela. I mean, it's been months since he's been threatening
that. And I was told that White House officials -- or at least inside the White House, there's not a huge appetite for doing those land strikes. So,
it does seem as though this might be taking it in another direction, but still trying to ramp up the pressure.
SCIUTTO: Such a good point that this could be a replacement, in effect, for those land strikes. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.
Well, joining us now from the Venezuelan capital of Caracas is Stefano Pozzebon. And, Stefano, you had that moment to speak with Nicolas Maduro. I
wonder, the administration's bet here is that all this pressure will either force Maduro himself to make the choice to leave or those around Maduro to
force him out. I mean, is there any evidence there, based on your reporting, that that's happening?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, not as of now, Jim, surely. Maduro has been under this pressure in the last four months, but also, he
has been under this similar pressure many times in the past. He's a skilled negotiator, and many here, at least in the government coalition, see him as
the minimum common denominator.
He -- you know, we always reported that the Venezuelan government is a galaxy of different interests. There is the oil lobbies, there is illegal
mining involved, there is, of course, some elements of drug trafficking, military, civilian. Maduro essentially represents the (INAUDIBLE) Squad
just because he has been there for so many years.
But it's also true that we are, in front of our eyes, we are assisting to scenes that we have never seen before. And I think if you can see the video
that the Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, published on social media with that, I think it's a Black Hawk, that literally goes on top of
the tanker, U.S. forces rappelling down and taking control of that tanker, that is the type of images that probably Maduro would fear even more than
an attack in a remote location here in Venezuela, which is something that we've been hearing coming down from Washington for some time.
Clearly, Maduro could afford that some sort of kinetic strikes on the drug trafficking facilities in a remote area of Venezuela. But that video, Jim,
shows that the U.S. are prepared to go after his purse. More than 90 percent of foreign income in this country is dependent on oil. A big share
of that is directly from the United States, thanks to a deal with the oil major Chevron. But another big share of that is, of course, black market
oil that is sold through -- because of -- is sold on the black market because of the sanctions, but it's sold to the likes of Iran, China and
other Asian powers.
We understand from the White House that this tanker was indeed directed towards Cuba and then towards Iran. So, clearly, something that will rattle
Maduro as perhaps nothing that the White House has thrown at him in the last few weeks and months. And we will need to understand how Maduro will
react.
How he reacted, by the way, to the announcement of the Nobel Peace Prize to his arch-nemesis and the opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado. Well, I
asked him about that prize and he immediately pivoted to something else. He didn't even give me a chance to ask her for a follow-up. Take a listen to
what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: Do you not care about the other prize, the one in Oslo?
MADURO (through translator): What matters to us is the life of the people, health, work, housing, the prosperity of our homeland, a new economy. We
want us to be concerned as president with the truth of the people, with the issues of the people, and not want to govern the world. Nobody can pretend
to govern the world. We simply believe in diplomacy, in dialogue, and in respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: I think, Jim, that Maria Corina Machado is only the second Venezuelan in history to receive a Nobel Prize. She's, of course, the first
one to receive the Peace Prize. And as soon as the international media is able to ask the Venezuelan president a comment about that, which you would
imagine in a normal country would be a cause for celebration for the entire people here, well, he immediately pivoted, didn't even address that award
in Oslo, and went back to his usual talking point, saying that he's the guarantor of the stability in this, frankly, crisis-stricken country. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Of course, it's Machado's view that he, and the view of many international observers, that he is not the actual elected president, that
she is the rightfully elected one. Stefano Pozzebon, in Caracas, thanks so much.
Joining me now is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. Senator, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): Good to be with you. Thanks for having me on.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: So, first, I want to talk about Venezuela, if I can. There have been many questions, some of which you've raised yourself, about the deadly
boat strikes off the coast of Venezuela. This seizure of an oil tanker, in your view, is this a legal action by the United States?
WHITEHOUSE: I haven't seen any explanation of what the basis for it is. So, it's hard for me to reach a legal conclusion. The thing to me that is
most notable is that this is being done to a Venezuelan oil tanker, when if you really wanted to bring peace to Ukraine, one of the ways you'd put real
pressure on Putin to come to the table and stop his war criminal behavior would be to seize his shadow fleet of oil tankers.
So, my first reaction to this is, why are we seeing this happen off Venezuela? Why is this not happening to Putin's oil tanker shadow fleet?
That would be something that would be, I think, very, very commendable.
SCIUTTO: So, let's get to that question of why that difference in the application of pressure and military force. Just a few days ago, following
the release of the Trump administration's national security strategy, which many in Europe that I've spoken to have said quite publicly, leans towards
Russia and away from Europe, you tweeted at the time, do you still think Trump-Russia is a hoax? Tell me what you meant by that.
WHITEHOUSE: Well, I think the -- if you understand the Trump language decoder ring, hoax is a term that he usually uses for something that is
indisputably true, right? He calls climate change a hoax. It's indisputably true.
Trump-Russia is very well documented. Going back to the Mueller report, going back to the intelligence assessment, going back to the bipartisan
Marco Rubio-led Senate Intelligence Committee review, and the efforts to disqualify that, say with the Durham report, found nothing. And over and
over again, there were Trump-Russia connections through the campaign, and there's evidence now that Russia is meddling in our country right now to
help Trump.
And when you look at our foreign policy efforts, over and over again, the common true north in almost every policy choice that gets made is it's
better for Putin. And when you look at the Ukraine conflict, and you're looking at a guy who literally bombs maternity hospitals, there has to be
some other force, some dark star force, that is causing him to make such an amoral decision. And it's not even the fastest pathway to peace. The
pathway to peace is to discourage the aggressor, not to try to make the victim give up more.
So, nothing about this adds up without the explanation of something that is creating the kind of pressure within Trump's mind that makes him veer
always towards Putin.
SCIUTTO: So, if that is true, what is the response of this country? Let's set aside Europe for a moment, because as you know, the vast majority of
your Republican colleagues agree that Russia and Putin are severe threats, not just to Europe's national security, but America's national security. Do
you believe that Congress, under Republican leadership, is willing to check President Trump on this?
WHITEHOUSE: We'll see. There's a package of legislation right now that includes the sanctions, that includes the seizure of Russian assets, and
that includes the declaration of basically a terror state. And that could be brought up by Leader Thune. It would have, I think, a lot of support
from Republicans. I know a number of Republican senators who are pushing for it.
And if you look at our Republican caucus, you've got the chairman of Judiciary, Grassley. You've got the chairman of Armed Services, Wicker.
You've got the chairman of Foreign Relations, Risch. You've got the chairman of Foreign Ops, Graham. I mean, that's a very powerful group, and
not only they, but also their Democrat-ranking members are all staunch supporters of protecting Ukraine and trying to make sure that this does not
turn into a victory for Putin that then puts China in a position to start looking aggressively at Taiwan.
So, there, I think, is a very strong firewall in the Senate, and I hope that that vote will come up fairly soon so that can really be made clear.
SCIUTTO: The trouble is that this is quite a sensitive and important time because it's CNN's reporting that negotiations on a peace proposal for
Ukraine are moving forward, not to an agreement yet.
[18:15:00]
But you have President Trump enormously influential in this process, right? Because the concern I hear from Europe is he might pull the rug out
entirely from Ukraine, withdraw all remaining U.S. support to pressure Zelenskyy to get over the finish line here.
Do you believe that a combination of Ukrainian pushback, European pushback, and, if it comes, Republican pushback on the Hill can keep that from
happening, or might you see President Trump successfully push Ukraine into a deal it doesn't want?
WHITEHOUSE: The thing that I have heard from Republican senators who've met with President Trump recently on this subject is that he is now
extremely frustrated and impatient. And I think a combination of Zelenskyy's firmness, which is justified, and the E.U. stepping up in a
stronger way, and Republican resolve in the Senate, you know, which way he goes with his impatience, he can flip very quickly.
Right now, the pressure is on Zelenskyy. But if he pivots to put pressure on Putin, I think he'll be in a position to get a peace deal better and
sooner. And it's in his interest to try to achieve that rather than keep banging on the ineffectual door of trying to make Ukraine give up territory
and create a potential cascade of foreign policy catastrophes around the world that results.
SCIUTTO: Yes, certainly, as you know, fear in Eastern Europe that they might, they would be next, right, if you're, if Russia calculates it won in
Ukraine. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, good to have you on.
WHITEHOUSE: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Turning back now to our lead story, that is the U.S. seizure of an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. Joining us now, Charles Shapiro,
he's a former U.S. ambassador to Venezuela. Ambassador, thanks so much for taking the time.
CHARLES SHAPIRO, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO VENEZUELA: Pleased to do so, good evening.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I'll ask you a question similar to the one I asked Senator Whitehouse first, and that is, is this a legal use, in your view,
of U.S. force to seize this tanker?
SHAPIRO: I'm not an expert. What I'm reading online is that there is an outstanding warrant for this ship based on its activities smuggling Iranian
oil. So, I'll leave it to the lawyers to sort all this out.
SCIUTTO: How about from a policy perspective? Is it clear to you what the U.S. objective is, having placed an enormous portion of its military and
Navy off the coast of Venezuela, continuing these drug boat strikes? But this is, of course, not a drug ship. This is an oil ship. What exactly is
the intention that you can discern from U.S. policy there?
SHAPIRO: Well, the intention is to convince Nicolas Maduro that he needs to leave Venezuela, that he needs to leave the country. Maybe Maduro plus,
you know, some number of the people closely associated with him. But clearly, that's what the United States wants to do. And as the national
security strategy they released this week says, the predisposition is to non-intervention. We want to do it without putting U.S. troops on the
ground.
SCIUTTO: So, to that point, because as you know, and Kristen Holmes reminded us of this at the top of the show, President Trump has been
threatening military action on the ground there up to and including U.S. forces on the ground for some time. Of course, he hasn't delivered.
Is it possible that this seizure could be the step below that, that even Trump himself hesitant to start a U.S. military entanglement abroad in
Venezuela?
SHAPIRO: The short answer is yes. I mean, I'd be willing to bet that the smart people in the National Security Council and in the White House have
got a list of activities the United States could undertake that is short of putting U.S. troops on the ground. And that might involve strikes inside
Venezuela. And they want to keep Maduro guessing and they want to convince Maduro he needs to leave office.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I spoke recently to a Venezuelan opposition leader who -- a politician, I should say, David Smolansky, who said that in his view, the
Maduro regime is, quote, "cracking," that the fissures are beginning to show that the pressure is working. He's still staying there. And we saw him
appearing in public, surrounded by crowds. Do you believe Maduro's leadership, his administration is cracking?
SHAPIRO: The way to judge that -- I mean, I don't have people calling me telling me this is about to happen or that there's cracks in it. You've got
the opposition saying that about their opponents.
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SHAPIRO: That may or may not be true. It could be wishful thinking. And of course, you'd be saying that, too, if you were in Mr. Smolansky's place.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though, given you served in Venezuela, listen, the Venezuelan people, we have a pretty good measure as to whether
they like Maduro in that it's the it's the broad view of observers that Maduro stole the election, right? But given your time there, is the
Venezuelan public likely to welcome U.S. intervention to force Maduro from power, or is it possible that it might solidify his source to -- support,
rather, to some degree?
SHAPIRO: Probably both. I mean, I think people would welcome it initially, you know, then tell me, are they going to welcome it after a week or after
a month? I mean, how long would that take? How would we do while we were there? This is an administration that says it doesn't want to get involved
in nation building, and that's exactly what's needed in Venezuela. So, how would we do that? Are we going to need troops on the ground? How are they
going to act? Is the economy going to respond positively overnight and all the people who are unhappy with Maduro suddenly be happy that things are
fine and on the right track in Venezuela? That's really tough.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SHAPIRO: You'd have to get the police and the military to switch their loyalty. You know, imagine that in any country. Look, you know, you cover
the world, but getting rid of a dictator anywhere in the world is a huge undertaking.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And it's what follows, of course. Lots of lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan. Ambassador Charles Shapiro, thanks so much for joining.
SHAPIRO: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a divided U.S. Federal Reserve has cut interest rates once again in what is being called a hawkish cut. What the Fed chair
says about the policy path ahead. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks finished Wednesday's session with solid gains, this after the Federal Reserve cut
interest rates by a quarter percentage point as expected, their third straight rate cut this year.
The Fed made note, however, of what it calls the uncertain U.S. economic outlook and the continued downside risk to the jobs market. However, two
Fed members voted against a cut at all. Why? Because of rising inflation.
[18:25:00]
Fed chair Powell says this could be the last cut for some time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, CHAIR, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE: Having reduced our policy rate by 75 basis points since September and 175 basis points since last
September, the Fed funds rate is now within a broad range of estimates of its neutral value. And we are well positioned to wait to see how the
economy evolves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Most Fed members see only one quarter point cut all of next year and one more than in 2027. One wild card is who, however, will replace
Powell when his term is up in May and how that might affect policy. President Trump told Politico that whoever he picks will cut rates
immediately. That's his priority, seemingly regardless of the economic data. He said after today's Fed meeting that the Federal Bank should have
cut rates by at least half a percentage point.
Joining me now, Richard Quest. So, listen, we know President Trump's interests here. He wants to lower rates. It helps. He hopes that it would
help the economy somehow, perhaps the stock market. The trouble is inflation is pesky. Powell noted that today. By the way, Powell said
inflation is pesky because of tariffs, principally. Does that explain this dissent that we saw in the vote on this rate cut?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Well, yes, it does, because the two members who dissented wanted to leave things as they are
because they believe, A, inflation is sticky and they're not sure on this theory that the tariff cut is a single one hit wonder. And also, we've got
deregulation benefits coming through. We've got one big, beautiful bill coming through. And at the moment, inflation is 50 percent higher than the
target rate and does not show signs of coming down to 2 percent. That's the core point.
Now, you haven't -- you didn't mention Stephen Miran. Stephen Miran, who, of course, is the president's most recent governor appointee. He wanted for
a 50 percent basis cut, same as at his last time. So, he is very much in the president's camp. More rate cuts. They can be afforded. They're not
inflationary. They're needed for jobs.
SCIUTTO: You might say he's lobbying for a job. But let me ask you this, Richard, let's set aside the politics for a moment, right? What's going to
bring inflation down, right? Because Powell says tariffs are still pushing them up. And I'm no economist, but typically cutting the price of money
puts more money out there typically you raise rates when inflation is sticky.
QUEST: Right. Well, yes. I mean, what's happening is that -- what -- we're in that situation where prices are going up just not as fast as they were
before. So, the current rate of inflation, whatever it may be, is sticky. It's not coming down.
Now, there is a sort of consensus building that the tariff hike might just be a one hit wonder. It's not necessarily feeding into the wider wages
claims spiraling up. If that's the case, then we would expect to see inflation moderate off. Prices are still going up, Jim. Prices are still
going up. Let's get rid of any old bromide that they're going to come down. That's just a question of how fast.
My own thinking is that inflation over the next 12 months is going to prove to be far more sticky and far more far more of a of an issue and a
challenge than we're seeing at the moment.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And listen, that has political implications in this country, as we saw in the last election. And yet, President Trump continues to claim
inflation is a hoax.
QUEST: A double, a double, a double, a double, a double, a double, a plus, plus, plus.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Richard Quest, always good to have you. All right. Checking some of today's other business headlines. Shares of software giant Oracle
are falling in afterhours trading after the release of its closely watched earnings. Profits beat expectations. Revenue, however, came up short, a
sign that corporate spending on Oracle's A.I. cloud services could be slowing even as Oracle is spending more on A.I. infrastructure.
NVIDIA says it has seen no evidence that Chinese A.I. startup DeepSeek is using its most powerful chips to train new A.I. models. A report from
online site The Information says that DeepSeek is using NVIDIA's Blackwell chips that have been illegally smuggled into China. The U.S. has banned the
sales of those chips to China. But President Trump, despite everything, recently gave NVIDIA the green light to sell powerful A.I. chips there.
[18:30:00]
A new study says the popularity of A.I. chatbots among U.S. teenagers is now on the rise. The study by the Pew Research Center says that nearly a
third of U.S. teens admit to using A.I. chatbots daily and that some 70 percent of them have used a chatbot at least once. The study says ChatGPT
is by far the most popular one. More than half of all teens say they have used it.
Coming up next, for the first time ever, Denmark is now branding the United States a potential security concern. The United States, a fellow NATO ally,
we're going to look at what's behind the move and what it means.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Donald Trump says an oil tanker has been seized off the coast of Venezuela by the U.S. A source tells CNN it had been traveling to Cuba.
This marks an escalation between the U.S. and Venezuela. Though not the military strikes President Trump has been threatening. Earlier, Venezuelan
President Nicolas Maduro and his supporters gathered in the country's capital. He told my CNN colleague there in Caracas his message to the U.S.
remains one of peace above all else.
Ukraine says it has struck a Russian oil tanker in the Black Sea. Its security service shared this video, which appears to show a seaborne drone
attack. The tanker was part of Russia's so-called Shadow Fleet, which is used to contravene Western sanctions. Ukraine has been disputing President
Trump's claim that Russia has gained an upper hand in the war, as have U.S. allies.
The winner of this year's Nobel Peace Prize, Maria Corina Machado, says she is on her way to Oslo after, unfortunately, she missed today's award
ceremony. The Venezuelan opposition leader, who has been in hiding since last year, won the award for promoting democratic rights in her country.
Her daughter, you see her there, accepted the award on her behalf.
[18:35:00]
And quite remarkable news. Denmark, a NATO ally of the U.S., has labeled the U.S., quote, "a security concern" in its national security strategy for
the first time ever. This is part of an annual report from a Danish intelligence agency citing President Trump's tariffs and the fact that the
U.S., quote, "no longer rules out the use of military force, even against allies."
The relationship between Denmark and the U.S. has been friendly. It's treaty allies, I said. It has grown strained since Trump expressed quite
public interest in taking Greenland, a Danish territory, even by military force.
Joining me now, Rasmus Jarlov, he's a and chair of its defense committee. Thanks so much for joining.
RASMUS JARLOV, CONSERVATIVE MEMBER, DANISH PARLIAMENT AND CHAIRPERSON, DANISH PARLIAMENT'S DEFENCE COMMITTEE: Hello, Jim. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I'd like your reaction to seeing Denmark, a NATO treaty ally, looking across the Atlantic at the U.S. and seeing a potential
threat. Tell me how the two countries got here.
JARLOV: We've had great relations with the United States for centuries, and we have appreciated the relations we've had since the Americans helped
liberate Europe and our country in the Second World War. And we've been very loyal allies to each other for the past 80 years. We've participated
in all the major U.S.-led wars in Korea, in the Gulf, and many other places in Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. So, it's not great that now we're
receiving threats regarding Greenland, which is the main concern from a Danish point of view.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, as I've reminded viewers and others, Denmark did some of the hardest combat duty in Afghanistan as well and lost many of its
soldiers and quite a large percentage of Denmark's overall forces there.
As you know, there are many in this country who disagree with the U.S. president on its approach to Denmark, including both Democratic and
Republican lawmakers. Do you believe there is anything standing in the way of President Trump continuing to antagonize Denmark?
So, I mean, my question is, is this just about President Trump, or do you believe the entire country, in effect, has turned against Denmark?
JARLOV: No, we don't believe the entire United States of America has turned against Denmark or against Europe. We know very well that there's a
lot of different opinions in the American public, and we've also seen polls citing that there's not a majority of the population that agrees with the
idea of starting a war with Denmark to take over Greenland that doesn't want to be part of the United States. So, I would hope that reason would
stand in the way of this happening.
And we hope we can also appeal to the Americans' self-interest. It's not about just loyalty to allies, it's also about self-interest, that there's
no need to have bad relations across the Atlantic. We want to have good relations with Americans. We think it's very beneficial to both countries.
And the Americans have access to everything they could possibly want in Greenland, including natural resources, military access and everything
else. They already have it. So, there is no need for any type of military action or any threat of taking over the country in any other way.
SCIUTTO: At least on paper, the U.S. and Denmark remain treaty allies. They're both members of NATO. But now you have Denmark looking to the U.S.
as a potential threat. Can those two things be true at the same time, or is the reality that that alliance doesn't truly exist anymore?
JARLOV: No, let's not take it that far. I mean, we have NATO and we have not heard the Americans not wanting to be part of NATO or not wanting to
honor the NATO oath. So, let's not take it as far as saying that we don't have NATO anymore and we're not allies. We are allies. We are in NATO
together and we have sworn an oath to fight for each other, if that should be necessary.
We already did it in Afghanistan when the United States invoked the NATO Article 5 as the only country in NATO's history. So, we already went there
and fought for the Americans. And the Americans definitely fought for us in the Second World War. So, we I think we owe each other some gratitude. I
think we owe the Americans more gratitude than the other way around. And we understand that.
We also understand that Americans are tired of paying too much money to protect Europe. That's fair enough. But it shouldn't develop into animosity
and belittling each other and talking about how Europeans want to end freedom of speech and other things that are being said at the moment that
simply are not true. We share the same values. We should be allies. It's much better for both Europe and the United States.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: But given the national security strategy and the harsh words that it had for Europe and frankly, less harsh words about Russia, do you see
the U.S. under President Trump leaning towards Russia and away from its NATO allies?
JARLOV: I mean, you can't reasonably say that the Americans are supporting Russia. The Americans have sanctions against Russia. They don't have
sanctions against Europe. So, they're not supporting Russia. But of course, we would want them to take the war in Ukraine more seriously.
We just read the new American security strategy that came out last week where it says basically that the Europeans should calm down and not be so
afraid of Russia. We are very, very concerned about Russia, because once you reward Russia for invading another country and just let them do it,
they're going to do it again. They've done it repeatedly over all of their history and they break every treaty you make with them.
So, not taking that serious is we just don't agree with that. And we feel like that's a very, very grave concern for Europeans, as well as the
economic attack that was made in Europe at the beginning of this year with the tariffs. Also, it's a cause of dissatisfaction in Europe, of course.
But we still hope we can get it back on track. But of course, there's no denying that the ties have been strained over the past year. We just can't
deny that. And we can't -- we don't mean this in an inflammatory way to say that the United States is a threat, but just objectively, it is a threat
when one country wants to take territory from another country.
SCIUTTO: Rasmus Jarlov, thanks so much for joining.
JARLOV: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, Canada makes a big investment to attract overseas talent. I'm going to speak to the country's industry minister about that
announcement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Now, to Canada, which has been making major investments in its future as the rest of the world is rethinking its relationship with the
U.S. Canada has joined the European Union's initiative to increase defense spending, giving Canadian defense companies more access to the European
market. Canada also looking to recruit more overseas researchers investing the equivalent of more than one point two billion U.S. dollars to attract
more of them to Canada.
Joining me now is Canada's Minister of Industry Melanie Joly. Thanks so much for taking the time.
MELANIE JOLY, CANADIAN MINISTER OF INDUSTRY: It's a pleasure, Jim. Thank you.
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Now, this initiative framed as a response to other countries restricting academic freedoms, including the U.S. I wonder, do you see this
as something of a competitive strategy here, right? As people might reconsider going to the U.S. to work and study that they would shoot
themselves in the foot if they didn't have the resources to do so. So, would you choose Canada over the U.S.?
JOLY: Well, absolutely, because when it comes to attracting talent, we know that there's a global competition and we know that researchers just
want to go to a place where they can be well supported, have money to employ their entire people in their labs, that they can further their
studies and eventually be able to succeed. And a lot of researchers around the world, may you be in artificial intelligence, in chemistry, in medicine
or working much more on the impacts of climate change than the Arctic. Of course, they have a lot of ambition.
And so, because a lot of people want to realize their dreams through their careers, a lot of these researchers can move across the world. A lot of
them are in the U.S. A lot of them are also elsewhere. Now, some countries, as you just mentioned, have decided to reduce funding and cut research and
have also turned their back on academic freedom.
And so, we believe in science. We believe in academic freedom. So, we're doubling down. And indeed, we're recruiting a thousand new researchers with
one of the biggest, if not the biggest, budget in the world, which will be $1.2 billion to attract them.
SCIUTTO: Yes. The other thing, of course, that is happening is that countries like your own are looking to build trade ties with countries
other than the U.S. It doesn't mean the trade completely stops with the U.S., but you're looking to build in places where perhaps you wouldn't have
if we weren't in the midst of a trade war. Of course, the prime minister met with China's Xi Jinping.
Can you tell us how much that is happening? I mean, is there a significant portion of trade with the U.S. that is now being replaced with overseas
partners?
JOLY: Well, we went through an election back in the spring and our mandate given by Canadians was to first take charge of our economy, stop being over
dependent on the U.S., and second was really to be able to diversify our trade. And so, being closer to Europe, closer to Asia. And so, in that
sense, because Canada is the only country of the G7 that has free trade agreements with all other free trade for G7 countries. Well, our goal has
been to indeed be closer to Europe and Asia.
I will give you an example. In a sector that is affected by the tariffs, so aluminum, Canada is a big producer of aluminum. Q1 of this year, before the
tariffs, 4 percent of one of our big aluminum plants, which is called Alouette, was going to Europe of its production. And Q2, it was actually 57
percent of its production that was going to Europe. So, we know that there's been a pivoting.
And meanwhile, also, we're investing more to build one strong domestic market here in Canada. So, we've been invested in major projects, maybe
critical minerals, investing in LNG projects, investing also in different important ports. And so, we know that we can take charge more of our
economy and ultimately create more jobs amidst this trade war.
SCIUTTO: Can you give us a sense of where negotiations stand with the U.S.? President Trump, of course, halted talks with Canada because he was
upset by an anti-tariff ad that quoted Ronald Reagan. Do you see the prospect for renewed negotiations anytime soon?
JOLY: Well, the prime minister is in charge of the negotiations and we'll let him negotiate. Meanwhile, we're always ready to be at the table. The
USMCA review is coming up in the next year. So, obviously, we'll be engaging with Mexico and the U.S. on this.
But meanwhile, we'll protect our workers. Our plan is clear. We need to protect jobs. And there are four sectors that are tariff right now. It's
aluminum, steel, lumber and auto. And meanwhile, we have zero tariffs on the rest of our economy. Then we need to create jobs. So, we're investing
massively in defense. And so, we're rebuilding our industrial base through our defense investments and also investing in major projects such as those
I've just mentioned to you.
[18:50:00]
And finally, we're attracting talent and investments. And that's why that thousand researchers, which we think will be really bringing a lot of
great, great talent, a great, great infusion of knowledge to our universities, and that will have also obviously an impact on our different
industries.
SCIUTTO: Melanie Joly, always good to have you on the program. Thanks so much for joining.
JOLY: Thank you, Jim. Take good care. Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Coming up next, farewell to Facebook, sayonara to Snapchat as Australia's social media ban for children is officially underway. We're
going to look at how the country, particularly the kids, are responding.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Reaction somewhat divided to Australia's new ban on social media for all those under 16. Now, in its second day, Meta is claiming the ruling
will make teens less safe by isolating them from online communities and information. There's also some concern teens could use VPNs to bypass
restrictions or simply move to platforms not covered in the ban. Anna Cooban has more on the law and the reaction from those it's meant to
protect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS & ECONOMICS REPORTER: Waking up to a new world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens when you try to log in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It says my account is banned and I can no longer log on or use the app at all.
COOBAN: Children under 16 in Australia are getting used to life without social media. The Australian government says that that's for their own
good.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: This is indeed a proud day to be Australian because make no mistake, this reform will change lives.
COOBAN: And parents who have suffered tragic losses agree.
MATT O'BRIEN: It means so much. You know, it's a very emotional day.
COOBAN: Matt O'Brien's daughter, Charlotte, died in September 2024, aged just 12. Her family say that she had been bullied online. O'Brien was at an
event in Sydney to mark the new law.
O'BRIEN: We're also incredibly proud. You know, we're proud of Charlotte and the role that she's played.
COOBAN: And the prime minister says that this law is just the start.
ALBANESE: But I've been asked this morning in media interviews, what will success look like? Success is the fact that it's happening.
COOBAN: Back at Australian schools, young people understand the arguments for this law, even if they're worried that they might miss out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a good way to reduce destruction because with doom scrolling and everything, it reduces concentration and can just impact
your schooling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going to be definitely different because some people find social media a way of expressing themselves. They find it
comforting sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do wish it was a lower age, but that might be biased because I'm 15 years old.
[18:55:00]
COOBAN: Australia's prime minister hopes the rest of the world will follow his example. But for children, success of the ban could be measured in
simpler ways.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We deserve time with real people to learn body language, tone, empathy and all the social cues you can't get from a
screen. We also deserve boredom, too.
COOBAN: The rest of the world is now watching to see if this big idea becomes a success.
Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: We also deserve boredom, she says. Speaking of technology, this is a bit more ancient. Archaeologists have discovered the earliest known
fire made by humans at a site in eastern England. Researchers found evidence of a hearth, pyrite and other indications that people were able to
start and control a blaze. Get this, the site is 400,000 years old. That's 350,000 years older than previous evidence of fire making.
Finally, tonight, just a terrifying moment on the highway in Florida when a small plane made an emergency landing on a highway on top of a car. Look at
this. Wow. That's footage from a dashboard camera which showed that twin engine plane coming down on a busy road to make that emergency landing.
Authorities say the driver amazingly only had minor injuries. The plane's pilot and passenger not injured. It's a lucky escape.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciuto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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