Return to Transcripts main page
The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Threatens To Tariff Countries Over Greenland; Trump's NATO Allies Outrage Over Greenland Plan; Machado Says Venezuela Taking First Steps To Democracy; Venezuela's Acting President Delivers State Of The Union; Tensions Escalate At Anti-ICE Protests In Minneapolis; Canada Hails "New Strategic Partnership" With China; Americans Grade Trump's First Year; DOJ Investigating Minnesota Governor And Minneapolis Mayor; Bobi Wine "Forcibly Removed" From His Home; Congress Rejects Proposed NASA Cuts. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired January 16, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump threatens new tariffs on countries that oppose the U.S. simply taking Greenland. Venezuelan opposition leader Maria
Corina Machado says her country is taking the first steps towards democracy, and thanks the U.S. for its support. And Congress rejects
proposed cuts to NASA as the space agency prepares its moon rocket, Artemis II, for a launch next month.
We begin again with Greenland, as President Donald Trump is now threatening to slap tariffs on any countries that oppose his plan to take over the
island, we should note, over the objections of its people and elected representatives. His aggressive rhetoric has angered politicians on both
sides of the Atlantic. A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers traveled to Copenhagen in a show of support for what they are calling America's trusted
allies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): There's a lot of rhetoric, but there's not a lot of reality in the current discussion in Washington. And part of the point
of this trip is to have a bipartisan group of members of Congress listen respectfully to our friends, our trusted allies and partners here in
Denmark.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): When you ask the American people whether or not they think it is a good idea for the United States to acquire Greenland,
the vast majority, some 75 percent, will say, we do not think that that is a good idea. This senator from Alaska does not think it is a good idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A Republican senator from Alaska. Multiple European countries have now responded by sending troops to Greenland. Denmark even invited the U.S.
to take part in joint military exercises.
Our Nic Robertson spoke to the head of Denmark's joint Arctic command in Greenland. Have a listen to that conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Compared to other NATO partners, how tough are the conditions up here?
MAJ. GEN. SOREN ANDERSEN, COMMANDER, DANISH JOINT ARCTIC COMMAND: It is very, very tough. And that's also why we have to train up here.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The Danish commander shaping security around Greenland and by default signaling to President Donald Trump NATO can keep
it safe just got put in the spotlight.
ROBERTSON: So, you're commander of the joint Arctic command for the Danish military. What's your mission here with these NATO troops coming in?
ANDERSEN: It's actually my normal job. It is to defend Greenland and the Faroe Islands.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Aboard one of his icebreaking warships that will be part of the upcoming military exercises. He says he is preparing for their
longest Arctic mission ever, more than a year.
ANDERSEN: I think it's a right way to do it, actually.
ROBERTSON: To do what?
ANDERSEN: To have this kind of training instead of having a lot of troops, putting a lot of pressure on the Greenlandic population. Try to have it all
throughout all year.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): NATO's apparent emerging strategy, a so-called tripwire force, similar to that along Europe's border with Russia, that
could surge troops if an enemy is detected.
ROBERTSON: It's very clear that at the moment President Trump's putting a huge amount of pressure on the Danish government on Greenland because he
wants to have Greenland. Is this a message to President Trump that NATO can provide security here?
ANDERSEN: I will not go into any political thoughts, but for me it is. If you're going to defend the kingdom, going to defend NATO's northern flank,
you simply have to train.
ROBERTSON: In these waters around Greenland, President Trump says there's Chinese ships, there are Russian ships. Do you see Chinese and Russian
ships here?
ANDERSEN: No. We see Chinese and Russian ships in the Arctic Ocean. I've been a commander up here for two and a half years, I haven't seen any.
ROBERTSON: So, what's the success of this mission going to look like, a long mission that projects security?
ANDERSEN: That Russia keeps away. We do that with the U.S., with Canada and all the NATO allies. And that is actually the mission up here. There's no
immediate threat to Greenland.
[18:05:00]
ROBERTSON: As a NATO commander, are you personally surprised that a NATO partner could be threatening another NATO partner?
ANDERSEN: I will not go into politics, but I work perfectly together with the U.S. military. We have done that for decades in Bosnia, in Afghanistan,
in Iraq, and we do it also today.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Even so, this professional soldier, clearly troubled by the turn geopolitics is taking.
ROBERTSON: As a Dane who suffered a lot of losses in Afghanistan, 52 soldiers killed, that's as many per capita as the United States, is it
disappointing to you that we're in this position?
ANDERSEN: Frankly, it is.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Nic Robertson, CNN, aboard the Danish warship Knud Rasmussen, Greenland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Frankly, it is. He says, Michael Carpenter is the former U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe,
among other titles. He joins me now. Back when there was security and cooperation with Europe. I mean, this is a genuine rift in the alliance,
because I've been speaking to Danish and Greenland diplomats all week. They say quite clearly, this is a red line. We're not going to let the U.S. take
it over. And there's no negotiation. They're willing to kind of pay the price. And Trump is saying quite publicly he wants it no matter what the
price is. What's the resolution of this?
MICHAEL CARPENTER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE OSCE AND SENIOR FELLOW, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Well, unfortunately, you
know, I don't know that there is a resolution. I mean, the U.S. is intent on essentially imperial conquest, and the Danes are not going to allow that
to happen and neither are NATO allies. So, what this sets up is an unfortunate rupture within NATO, which is needed now more than ever.
If the ostensible reason for the U.S. strategic interest in Greenland is because of Russian and Chinese aims on the Arctic, the best way to give
credence to those aims is to divide NATO and to give an opening to Russia and China. Denmark has been one of our top allies in terms of countering
both Russia and China.
SCIUTTO: It's such an important point. And you heard that from the genuine emotion from that Danish commander there, as Nick noted, that Denmark lost
a number of soldiers in Afghanistan. And I always say when I go to Afghanistan, remind people the Danish did hard frontline combat duty. They
did not, you know, sit behind the lines.
But you just co-penned a piece that listed all the things NATO -- Denmark has done for NATO, one of the 12 founding members, first to support Article
5 after 9/11. Military forces in Afghanistan joined the Iraq operation, which, by the way, as you know, you remember, not a lot of Europe did
counter ISIS efforts in Iraq, Syria, NATO air campaign over Libya, counter piracy operations off of Somalia. I mean, Denmark has more than done its
part.
CARPENTER: They've been one of our most solid allies. And the thing that is, I think, so frustrating in this situation is that they are prepared.
Both Denmark and Greenland are prepared to give the U.S. everything that we could possibly need. We have a space base in Patuxent. They have offered to
give us any kind of basing that we want, any troop deployments, any type of installations that we want to construct, any type of investments that we
want to make. They're open to all of that.
SCIUTTO: Does that reveal to you the president's actual motivation here?
CARPENTER: Yes. I mean, I think this is a feather in the cap, you know, territorial aggrandizement in the 19th century sort of model. It fits with
the Monroe Doctrine. But, you know, as we heard Senator Murkowski say, this is not popular in America because this is going to rupture our alliance.
It's going to come at a tremendous cost to Americans over the long-term.
SCIUTTO: Could it rupture the alliance?
CARPENTER: It could. You know, the Danish prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, has said that it would. And I have no doubt that it would.
Already we've got allies who are questioning whether the United States is going to defend their territory if it comes to an attack from, say, Russia
or China or some other country. And they're going to doubt the U.S. intent even more now that we're taking on an ally.
And not just Denmark. I mean, we've had this rhetoric vis-a-vis Canada. I mean, some people say the president is trolling the Canadians. But the
Canadians don't see it that way. And so, there's a pattern here. And it's unfortunate. It's undermining our alliances around the world.
SCIUTTO: The European approach for now seems to be, OK, let's see if we send more troops there. And I know it was a small number this week, but
this is, in effect, an advanced party. They're going to base some more troops there, do some exercises. They've invited the U.S. to take part in
those exercises to signal we are investing further resources to protect Greenland if that is your motivation, Mr. President. Do you see that as a
potentially successful strategy to satisfy him, or is it a long shot?
CARPENTER: You know, I don't know what's going to mollify the president because, as you said earlier, he does seem very intent on making this play.
I mean, I will say that it's a very ham-fisted strategy because the population of Greenland, which is very small, it's about 57,000 people, but
they are now more opposed to sort of U.S. imperial conquest than they have ever been in the past. They haven't even thought about this possibility.
[18:10:00]
So, if we were trying to co-opt the population or coerce the Greenlandic politicians, that doesn't look like that's going to be a successful
strategy. I think Europeans deploying, showing that they're interested in Arctic security, NATO doing more in the GIUK gap, that's this area between
Greenland, Iceland, and the United Kingdom, one of the most heavily patrolled parts of maritime territory in the world, lots of subs, Russian
subs go through there and we track them. I think doing more of that will show that they're focused on our common security because this is a common
endeavor at the end of the day. It's so unfortunate that we're not seeing it that way.
SCIUTTO: If that's the motivation, right?
CARPENTER: That's right.
SCIUTTO: The trouble is he may just want it so that it looks good on the map.
CARPENTER: Yes. And, you know, of course, the president is a real estate guy and he tends to view things, I think, through that lens, but this is
not just a piece of real estate. And, you know, this sort of smacks of what Putin is doing in Ukraine, frankly, trying to take territory.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this from a legal standpoint. The president may want it. It does not appear that even with a Republican controlled Congress
that they would ratify any sort of annexation claim. Could the president just declare it ours?
CARPENTER: I mean, he could he could declare anything that he wants. The question is, you know, what is the longevity of that claim? Would I mean,
you heard Senator Murkowski, Senator Tillis, various other Republicans have been quite outspoken on this. I think there's a real question as to whether
the next administration would ratify this or perhaps would reverse it. And so, you know, I think both Denmark and Greenland are bearing that in mind
as our European allies.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Michael Carpenter, thanks so much for joining.
CARPENTER: My pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Well, now to Washington, where Venezuela's opposition leader said today that her country is taking its first steps of a true transition to
democracy. Maria Corina Machado warns, however, that her country faces complex, delicate and challenging times ahead. She was also optimistic,
though, about the future. A day after visiting the White House, Machado thanked President Trump and the American people for their support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: The result of a stable transition will be a proud Venezuela who is going to be the best ally the
United States has ever had in the Americas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: At the White House on Thursday, Maria Corina Machado made President Trump an offer he found hard to resist. She gave him her 2025
Nobel Peace Prize medal. The president was asked today why he accepted someone else's Nobel Peace Prize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday, you accepted Maria Machado's Nobel Prize medal. What do you intend to do with it? And why would you want someone
else's Nobel Prize?
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, she offered it to me. I thought it was very nice. She said, you know, you've ended eight wars and nobody deserves
this prize more than in history than you do. And I thought it was a very nice gesture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: One small hitch, the Nobel Committee says the award, in fact, is not transferable. Machado's White House meeting came on the same day that
Venezuela's acting president, Delcy Rodriguez, addressed the National Assembly and met the CIA director, John Ratcliffe, in Caracas.
Joining me now, Stefano Pozzebon. I wonder, given the time that you've spent in Venezuela, what is the situation on the ground there right now? I
know you're in Colombia. Do people feel that they're being run by the old Maduro regime, that they're being run by the U.S. president, something in
between?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, I think that if you ask Venezuelans who is in control right now, they will tell you Delcy Rodriguez clearly. Of
course, she is working with this weird, for lack of a better word, mandate from the White House with a revolutionary left-wing socialist apparatchik
from more than 25 years of Venezuela under Chavismo and then under Maduro, now basically working hand in hand with Donald Trump and the Republican
Party. We've seen that with that meeting with John Ratcliffe.
But I think that Delcy Rodriguez right now in Caracas is the one trying to dispel any doubt that she's the one in charge. She spoke yesterday, for
example, to the National Assembly, Jim, and just a couple of hours ago she was on television chairing a Council of Economic Development, announcing
some economic reforms, especially around the issue of oil and the export of hydrocarbons, that are almost hand in hand with what some oil executives
had asked of Donald Trump back last week.
[18:15:00]
If you remember, on January 9, last Friday, Trump hosted a plethora of oil executives at the White House. They all said that they will be interested
in making investment and going back to Venezuela, of course, the country with the largest oil reserves in the world. However, they do expect some
legal reforms, some changes to the rule of law, and some guarantees that their investment will be respected.
And some of those reforms are being spoken about openly in Caracas now, thanks to Delcy Rodriguez, who seems to be working under the close
stewardship, perhaps, I like the word stewardship, of Donald Trump. However, she's the one in charge in Caracas, and yesterday she was the one
delivering her first State of the Union address.
I think that Delcy Rodriguez is working a very tight line because she needs, of course, to appeal and appease to the left-wing radical base that
she has embodied and her government has embodied for so many years, while at the same time, of course, dealing with the fact that Donald Trump would
take no second chances of removing her from office if indeed this relationship was sour.
A similar delicate line, perhaps, is the saying that Maria Corona Machado needs to work in the International Community. Of course, rallying her
supporters and saying that the capture and removal of Nicolas Maduro is a positive step, but that, however, it's clear by now that the United States
does not want to enter a forever war or a far-off adventure in bringing democratic change in Venezuela.
So, two women, two leaders, both of them with a very tight line to work, and both of them still trying to appease, still trying to work with the
only person that, frankly, right now seems to be capable of changing the fate of that country, and that is Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Although, of course, only one of those women has democratic support in that country, that being Machado.
POZZEBON: Of course, yes.
SCIUTTO: Stefano Pozzebon, thanks so much for joining. Well, the U.S. president appears to be backing off for now his repeated threat to invoke
the Insurrection Act and deploy troops to Minnesota. He told reporters today he would use the act if necessary, to quell protests, but does not
believe there is need to do so at this moment.
Clashes flared up outside the Bishop Henry Whipple Federal Building in Minneapolis today. Federal officers in tactical gear, as you so often see
them, faces covered, pushed back the crowd. They took at least one person into custody.
Shimon Prokupecz is in Minneapolis outside that federal building. And Shimon, I know you've been watching this closely. You know, these are often
described as clashes. Who instigates the clashes based on what you've seen there? Do the protesters charge the police? Do the police charge the
protesters? Is it clear?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's pretty clear. I mean, there's a small group usually within the crowd last
night that I saw. You know, you had a group that was very peaceful, and then you had a smaller group that was really, you know, just sort of
pushing the line, right?
When vehicles occupied by federal law enforcement officials would go into the Whipple building here, the federal building, they would jump in front
of the car, or they would try to attack the car, really going after the vehicle by kicking it. At one point, I saw someone throw a water bottle. It
was a frozen water bottle, and it struck the car. So, we saw that go on last night for probably two hours. I was actually, Jim, surprised that law
enforcement allowed it to go on for so long.
And then finally, as we got into the night, we saw this aggressive move by law enforcement. They came out from one side, and then they came from
another side, and that's when they started using tear gas and pepper balls and smoke and the flashbangs, and then they pushed the crowd back. You
know, I was caught in the middle of all of that. So, that's what we were seeing last night. Today, there have been smaller pockets.
You know, what the protesters here are doing is mostly standing on the sidewalk, holding signs, yelling, screaming, get ICE out of Minneapolis.
And then there are some who clearly come here for trouble. You know, I was talking to a guy just a short time ago. He said, we're the older folk here
in the day, you know. And then at night, you get the younger folks, the younger guys. They come in, and that's who starts the trouble. So, even the
people here understand it.
The thing also, Jim, I've been here now for -- I've only been here for two days, but I've been spending time talking to people, you know, in the
hotel, in stores. It's just really sad what's going on around here and how people feel they're really affected. You know, they're scared. A lot of
them are afraid to leave their homes, their neighbors, their families. Everyone is so worried about what's going to happen. And you can feel that
here. And I think that's a big part of the story, too. And for many people who live here, it's just so unfair.
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: So, they're trying to deal with this, and they hope it comes to an end. But you can really feel that sadness here.
SCIUTTO: Sure. It seems they feel less safe than before. Those agents arrived.
PROKUPECZ: Yes. That's right.
SCIUTTO: Shimon Prokupecz, stay safe and stay warm. Thanks so much.
PROKUPECZ: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead. President Trump's global tariffs are helping bring old economic adversaries closer together. The latest on improved ties
between China and America's neighbor Canada right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks. Finished Friday's session little change, but stocks posted weekly losses overall.
Wall Street closed, of course, on Monday for the Martin Luther King, Jr. Holiday.
Canada and China, two countries hard hit by President Trump's global tariffs are now taking new steps to improve their trade relationship. They
have announced what Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney calls a new strategic partnership. After talks in Beijing, Canada says it will slash
tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles from 100 percent to just over 6 percent. And it says it hopes to see new Chinese investment in Canada's
auto industry. Earlier this week, China announced it ran a record global trade surplus in 2025, even as it sells less to the us due to those
tariffs.
Paula Newton joins me now. And, Paula, this is a big change because I, like you been talking to Canadian officials for months now and they'd hinted,
they said, listen, as the relationship gets worse with the U.S., we're going to look for other partners, and those other partners include not just
Europe, but also China. And here we are. How big is this deal?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The deal itself, Jim, isn't that big, but as I know how much you follow this, think about it, not nine months ago,
Prime Minister Mark Carney said that the greatest security threat to Canada was China. And now, here we are, right, with a new so-called landmark deal.
Look, the deal itself is likely worth a few billion dollars. When we talk about the 6 percent tariff, it really only applies to about 49,000 cars.
There is a quota reminding everyone again, that Canada had actually matched the Biden 100 percent EV tariff, and now they've come away from that.
This is though a good deal for Canada in terms of it really bolsters Canadian farmers and other food product industry here in Canada because
China had just stopped altogether, Jim, in terms of even trying to do business with Canada on so many food products,
[18:25:00]
At issue here though is if China really will invest in the auto industry. I want you to listen now to Prime Minister Mark Carney in Beijing, and we'll
talk on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: This is a return to the levels that existed prior to recent trade frictions. But it's a return under an
agreement that promises much more for Canadians. It's expected that within three years this agreement will drive considerable Chinese investment in
Canada's auto sector, creating good careers in Canada and accelerating our progress towards a net zero future and the auto industry of the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, if China wanted to invest in Canada, why wouldn't it do so on a different timeline? I'm -- many politicians here in Canada and industry
watchers in the auto industry anywhere are very skeptical about what this deal is going to do one way or the other. What they are worried about, Jim,
is whether or not it will compromise negotiations with the United States on that trade review that is happening this summer.
You know, President Trump on his way to Mar-a-Lago just a few hours ago really kind of said, well, yes, what do you expect him to do? He signed a
deal with China. We'll see if that magnanimous position actually holds in the weeks and months to come. But certainly, a risk with Canada that felt
it has no choice, Jim. And I -- giving the thought, right, that Prime Minister Mark Carney actually said that China is now much more predictable
on trade than the United States.
SCIUTTO: Has it changed, though, Canada's assessment of China as a security threat? I mean, in other words, is it trying to live with both still a
security threat, but we can do business with them in certain sectors?
NEWTON: I wouldn't say it's changed the opinion at all. And if you look to the security agencies at Canada, they follow this quite closely. Prime
Minister Mark Carney did indicate that they had a conversation about that kind of foreign interference and about human rights. It will be
interesting, though, to see if China really changes its behavior on the ground in the weeks, months, years to come.
And, Jim, you know how hard it is to parse that, whether anything has actually changed. Mark Carney, though, made a very sharp point of it when
asked this question and said, look, we need to deal with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. And Canada cannot ignore the second
largest economy in the world any longer, especially not with the United States threatening to cut trade ties.
SCIUTTO: No question. With enormous economic costs for Canada. Paula Newton in Ottawa, thanks so much.
Well, there is brand-new CNN polling on exactly what Americans think of President Trump's first year back in office, why it should be ringing alarm
bells for the White House and Republicans ahead of the midterm elections.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief. I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Donald Trump says he is considering new tariffs now on any country that opposes his plan to just take control of Greenland. He insists
the island is vital for U.S. national security. He's facing resistance from U.S. lawmakers, including some in his own party, not to mention the people
of Greenland. A bipartisan group of senators visited Copenhagen to show support for what they called trusted allies.
Venezuela's opposition leader warns that her country faces complex, delicate and challenging times ahead, but is signaling that the first steps
of a true transition to democracy are coming. One day after her meeting with President Trump, Maria Corina Machado told reporters she is grateful
to the American people and the U.S. president for their support.
Ugandan opposition leader Bobi Wine has been forcibly removed from his home, taken to an unknown location in an army helicopter, that according to
his party, Wine is running against the sitting president of many decades, Yoweri Museveni. There have been outbreaks of violence as well as reports
of repression and intimidation around that election.
And we have this news just in to CNN. The U.S. Department of Justice is now investigating Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and the mayor of Minneapolis,
Jacob Frey. That, according to a source familiar with the matter, the investigation centers on alleged obstruction of federal law enforcement. Of
course, both those men are Democrats.
A majority of Americans believe U.S. President Donald Trump's first year back in office is a failure. 58 percent of them, according to a new CNN
poll, just 39 percent approve of his job handling, 61 percent, as you see there, disapproving. Those numbers mirror his marks on the issue which
arguably helped win him the election, the white, the economy.
Political commentator and Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton joins me now.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND U.S. REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hey, Jim, good to see you.
SCIUTTO: Those numbers don't look great for Republicans.
SINGLETON: No, they don't look great. Look, the president has around 88 to 91 percent approval with the party, give or take which poll you're looking
at. I looked at the Democrats where they stand, their numbers have been pretty consistent in terms of how they view Trump and the party, the
Republican Party writ large. The number that, to me, could be decisive, that's independents, those indies.
SCIUTTO: About two to one, right?
SINGLETON: Right. As you know, as well as I know, I presume even our audience is probably aware of this, most races now are one on the margins,
meaning you got to turn out your base, you want that enthusiasm, you want them engaged, door knocking, making phone calls, becoming small dollar
contributors, but you need about 15 to sometimes 25 percent, depending on the district, of those independents who can swing either way to really get
your candidate across the finish line.
I'm worried about 18 Republicans in the House who are running in some of those competitive districts that I'm speaking of who are going to have to
make their case to their constituents why they deserve another two years.
SCIUTTO: So, another notable number in this poll, nearly two-thirds of Americans say Trump has not paid enough attention to the country's most
important problems, and they consistently list the economy at the top of that list. Is Trump getting that message? Because I'm hearing a lot from
him about Greenland and Venezuela and Iran. He seems to be paying some attention to the economy, but is he paying enough?
SINGLETON: Probably not. Look, this is interesting, right? Because for a long time, Republicans have argued we need to grasp culture. I'll get to
the international stuff in a minute. We've always lost that to our Democratic friends. They've maintained the culture, Trump putting his name
on the Kennedy Center, et cetera. Conservatives coming up with podcasts and digital networks. That isn't a tangible thing to the average person,
though, who voted for Trump for two reasons, the economy and immigration.
Now, maybe you disagree with the tactics, but I would argue that immigration, for the most part, has been a success. The economic front is
where the instability still rests. It's remaining and lingering for a lot of people out there. And even on the international front, this is a bit
disparate from what Trump campaigned on, being sort of the isolationist, no prolonged wars that are expensive, that are killing our sons and daughters.
And now, we're seeing the adverse of those things.
[18:35:00]
So, that's not a worry or criticism or uncertainty coming from the American people at large. Also, conservatives are saying, wait a minute here, Mr.
President, we support you, but these are not sort of MAGA tenants. And you've seen some on the right that have been critical of the president as a
result.
SCIUTTO: On the immigration thing, I know that reducing the flow of migrants across the border, actually bringing it largely to a stop. Largely
popular.
SINGLETON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Scenes of federal agents dragging women out of their cars, right, demanding proof of citizenship. Detaining American citizens. Not popular.
And that number is in the polling as well.
SINGLETON: Yes, it has --
SCIUTTO: I mean, ICE is --
SINGLETON: -- for months now.
SCIUTTO: The president though seems to respond by doubling, tripling down on those kinds of tactics. Is that a problem for him?
SINGLETON: I think there is a portion of the base that really feels strongly about this, and I think that's perhaps what the president's
looking at. But this goes back to my assessment from the beginning, which is you got to look at the people in the middle. Electoral politics is about
addition, not subtraction.
I've argued if you want to think about this from an operational perspective, we have done a lot of joint task force in this country. FBI
state local law enforcement, pair ICE with local state law enforcement. Say, hey, we have a director from the president to remove people who are in
our country illegally. Help us find where they are. We're not used to policing American citizens. That's not the onus of their training. You do.
Police people while protecting their constitutional rights to video record to follow, because in this country, that is a right that we permit with our
citizenry. You can do that while also moving forward with the president's mandate successfully.
I do become somewhat worried when I see people's rights being violated. I'm a conservative. That's important -- an important cornerstone of our
republic. It distinguishes us from many, many other countries. We don't want to see that reduced in any significant way. Even those who are here
illegally, they have rights, and I have my thoughts about them being here, but we have to protect that because you can't say, our rights matter, but
the rights of others don't. Then you become a hypocrite effectively.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
SINGLETON: And so, again, I think, Jim, you can do this well, you can have operational efficacy moving forward, but I think the administration has got
to figure out a way to do this where you don't continue to have these powder kegs exploding across the country that's going to make ICE's job
more tedious, dangerous for the officers, dangerous for the American people.
SCIUTTO: You say this kind of critique on the air and we know the president watches television.
SINGLETON: Yes, yes.
SCIUTTO: Is any of that criticism getting through to him from his inner circle, from advisers he trusts or is he sort of insulated inside the
bubble?
SINGLETON: If -- it's interesting that you asked that question, I don't know if you saw the very lengthy interview that he gave to the New York
Times, I think a week ago. And the topic of immigration came up and it was -- his response actually surprised me, and it was clear to me and evident
that there is a bit of a duality going on within the White House. You do have some that are saying, hey, we know we need to do this, but there's a
more structured, more strategic way to accomplish these aims. And then you have Stephen Miller who is more aggressive in terms of how he would like to
move forward.
I think the president is trying to figure out which of those two arguments he would like to listen to. I would argue, Mr. President, the American
people support this. You even have some Democrats that have said, hey, this is a problem. But this is not the way tactically to accomplish that. And I
would advise the president, you got to move in the other direction it benefits you, it benefits Republicans, also to say, hey, look, we're doing
this, but we're doing it in a judicious way.
SCIUTTO: Shermichael Singleton, appreciate you joining.
SINGLETON: Thank you, Jim. Maybe I should run for office.
SCIUTTO: Well, you know, announce it here first. Returning now to that news just in to CNN, that is that the U.S. Department of Justice is now
investigating the Minnesota Governor, Tim Walz, and the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, according to a source, familiar to the matter.
Joining me now is Kristen Holmes. Kristen. It doesn't take a detective to notice the number of prosecutions this Justice Department has initiated of
critics of the president folks who got on the wrong side of the President and democratic lawmakers. Here are two more Democratic lawmakers. Is this a
serious investigation?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly seems that way. Now, we have heard from a source familiar that Walz's
office has not received anything about this investigation. However, we did also get a statement from Governor Tim Walz, and this is what it says. To
your point, says two days ago, it was Elissa Slotkin. Last week it was Jerome Powell, before that, Mark Kelly weaponizing the justice system and
threatening political opponents is a dangerous authoritarian tactic. The only person not being investigated for the shooting of Brene Goode is the
federal agent who shot her.
Now, again, you know, this is a pretty striking development here. We've heard from President Trump who has been slamming walls, who has been
slamming the Minnesota mayor, now, we're hearing that the Justice Department is bringing these charges, or at least investigating -- excuse
me, they're not bringing charges, but investigating over possible obstruction of law enforcement.
[18:40:00]
We'd heard kind of rumblings within the administration. We'd seen posts on Twitter where they accused both Frey and Walz of impeding investigation, of
encouraging violence against law enforcement, particularly against ICE officers. And so, that had been kind of a narrative that we'd seen from
this administration in the aftermath of the shooting.
Now, of course, they have open investigation. And this, again, is just one of many investigations that the Department of Justice has opened into
political foes of President Trump. And we heard the mayor, Jacob Frey, when he came out and he said that ICE should get out of their city, that they
shouldn't be there. And they have both, Walz and Frey, accused the ICE officer, in certain terms, of being the perpetrator in what happened in the
shooting of Renee Good. And of course, he was the person who shot her. And they've blamed having ICE in the city and said that it has caused problems
and chaos.
So, this is the way that we've seen this Justice Department handle this kind of criticism and this kind of pushback. But it is still striking,
nonetheless.
SCIUTTO: No question. We should note that many of those investigations have gone nowhere, right, of some of the administration's targets. Unclear where
this one goes. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much for joining.
Just stunning reports in Uganda saying that the presidential candidate, Bobi Wine, was forcibly taken from his home in an army helicopter to an
unknown location. We're going to have the details coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Now, to Uganda, where a presidential candidate's party says he has been taken by force from his home. The National Unity Platform says that
Bobi Wine was taken in an army helicopter. Just a day after polls closed in Uganda, partial results showed Wine in second place to the current
president, Yoweri Museveni.
Joining me now, Michelle Gavin, the former U.S. ambassador to Botswana. Michelle, thanks so much for joining.
MICHELLE GAVIN, AFRICA POLICY STUDIES SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: You wrote a week ago that Uganda's election was less about the people's choice, more about the state reminding citizens of its power. And
really, when you see the tactics it employs, which you cited, it's like straight out of the anti-democratic playbook, isn't it? You know, activists
abducted and tortured, arrest civil society leaders, rallies dispersed. And now, with this arrest, it seems, of the opposition leader, what's the
significance?
[18:45:00]
GAVIN: Well, you're absolutely right. There's nothing subtle about the Ugandan government's insistence on maintaining power for itself. The last
election cycle, Bobi Wine was placed under house arrest for quite some time. Perhaps this is an escalation from that period. We'll have to see.
SCIUTTO: You argue elections like this can actually destabilize countries over time, but by fueling further resentment, where does it go from here? I
imagine, given all the power that Museveni has, that he's got the upper hand.
GAVIN: Well, he certainly has the guns. And, you know, he's 81 years old. He's been in power since 1986. At some point, because he is not immortal,
there will be a different leader of Uganda, but he's been grooming his son, who is the chief of defense forces and has gone so far as to publish social
media posts about torturing opposition people in his basement.
So, their intent is to continue on this authoritarian path. But, you know, most Ugandans have never known another president besides President
Museveni, but they are connected to the rest of the world. They see the rest of the world getting a choice. And there is a lot of grievance and
anger in that country.
SCIUTTO: Is there any credible opposition when the government can spirit the opposition candidate away? Are there signs of protests, or is the
threat of force just too great?
GAVIN: There clearly have been protests and some lives lost. Certainly, last night, as the vote counting started and opposition polling agents were
not allowed to observe the counting, which by law they should be, there are reports that an opposition parliamentarian's home was attacked by security
forces and several supporters killed. So, it's entirely possible we'll see more of this. There's a complete internet shutdown in Uganda. So, it's hard
to get information out right now.
SCIUTTO: Yes, just like Iran is doing, of course. Has there been any substantive reaction from the International Community? I mean, given that
this has been the status quo there for decades, I'm not going to claim that the International Community should be expected to come to the rescue here.
But is there any outside force that could change that dynamic?
GAVIN: I think, ultimately, it'll be Uganda's citizens who change the dynamic. But yes, the United Nations has, you know, made statements
indicating that this is -- there's nothing remotely resembling a level playing field when every opposition rally is, you know, attacked by
security forces, that people attending are tear-gassed and beaten. So, there has been some, simply speaking the truth, about what is observable
about this process.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, given the President's son brags about torturing members of the opposition in his basement, just one alarming indicator. Michelle
Gavin, thanks so much for joining.
GAVIN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, NASA is preparing to send astronauts around the moon for the first time since 1972. The Artemis II mission should leave the Kennedy
Space Center launch pad within the next few weeks. We're going to learn about what this all is for, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: It's been a busy week for NASA. On Thursday, Congress saved NASA from proposed budget cuts. The White House wanted to slash science spending
by 57 percent, terminate dozens of missions. Early today, NASA experts gave updates about their new moon mission, Artemis II, one of those missions.
The next launch should take place next month, if all goes well.
NASA will roll the Orion spacecraft to launch pad 39B Saturday morning in Florida. It's a slow process. The test flight aims to send four astronauts
further into space than ever before, propel them around the moon and then bring them back again, a first step to a sustained human presence on the
moon.
Joining me now, Casey Dreier, chief of space policy at the Planetary Society. First on this mission, if you can, how important is this mission,
but also the mission to the moon for NASA in terms of sort of, I don't know, proving itself, I suppose, going forward, especially in the face of
private space competition?
CASEY DREIER, CHIEF OF SPACE POLICY, THE PLANETARY SOCIETY: Well, it's huge. I mean, this is the first time NASA will be sending humans towards
the moon in over 50 years, and it has the legacy of Apollo to live up to.
The competition with commercial spaceflight is more distinct because they're partners in this time. So, while this initial mission is primarily
kind of the old way of doing business, future missions, including the first landing, will require SpaceX, Blue Origin and other commercial partners.
SCIUTTO: You noted that a third of active NASA science missions could have been terminated had President Trump cut NASA's budget as planned. Is NASA
out of the woods on that effort now?
DIAMOND: Well, I'm waiting for the president's signature on that legislation, but it seems to be the White House has indicated it will
support the bill. The huge cuts put down to science, 47 percent, 24 percent to NASA, huge cuts elsewhere in science, including getting rid of all
education and outreach capability. All of this is undone by the bill that just passed Congress. And this is a bill that had huge bipartisan support.
This is through Congress with the president's own party.
And so, it's a huge relief for a lot of members of the science community, the space community. But we have to see it implemented. And we have a new
administrator, Jared Isaacman, who has committed to spend every dollar that Congress gives him. So, things are looking a lot brighter. But of course,
this is just for one year, this could all start again in just a few months.
SCIUTTO: Sure. Well, it's a big step given, as you know, there's been a broader assault on federal funding of a whole host of things, including
university public health funding, et cetera. So, do you see this as pushback against that broader push of the federal role in scientific
research?
DREIER: I think it's a huge statement, right? And because it had such large majorities in the Senate and the House, it was really, again, there was no
real positive viewpoint put forward by the administration. The cuts were put out there. They were never defended. They were never argued for. And
they're just kind of objectively were bad policy. Add to that, we had a huge response. My organization is a nonprofit. We don't have professional
members, just regular people.
And we had over 100,000 messages sent to Congress, everyone from every single district in every single state across the country responding and
participating and pushing back. This is a situation that united people to say, this is actually what's really important for as Americans and as
explorers. And, you know, by promoting this kind of pro-science approach, space science is a really good example of something that is a unifying
activity.
And so, we saw that by how many people came out. We saw a really good budget here also for National Science Foundation and NOAA and other aspects
of government. So, again, I think it's a really clear message from Congress that it does not make any sense if we're positioning ourselves as a nation
in the geopolitical competition with China and other nations in the world to really give up on that.
SCIUTTO: Fair points. And space used to be popular, right? One of those unifying issues. Casey Dreier, thanks so much for joining.
DREIER: Thank you.
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: Now, also taking to the skies, the maiden flight of the British Navy's first full-size autonomous helicopter went off without a hitch. The
aircraft named Proteus, or Proteus, was developed under an $80 million program to defend Britain and NATO allies. It's designed to track
submarines and carry out other high-risk missions at a time, of course, of rising tensions in the North Atlantic. It relies on sensors and computer
systems to interpret the environment, make decisions, as many drones do. No windows necessary when there's no pilot.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Hope you have a good weekend. Please do stay
with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
