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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Faces Backlash From NATO Allies; U.S., Russia, Ukraine Holding Peace Talks In Abu Dhabi; Businesses Protests ICE In Minnesota; Leaders Of Denmark And Greenland Meet In Nuuk; Trump Says U.S. Warships Moving Toward Iran; Death-Defying Climb In Taiwan. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired January 23, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, President Donald Trump's claims about NATO troops staying, quote, "a little off the front lines in Afghanistan," stoking
international anger. Britain's Prince Harry says sacrifices of troops deserve respect. Hundreds of Minnesota businesses close in protest to ICE
deployments and tactics. As sources say, President Trump is becoming frustrated. His immigration message is being lost. And no ropes, no
parachute, no safety net. Rock climber Alex Honnold prepares to scale Taiwan's tallest building, Taipei 101. That story and plenty more coming
up.
We begin with swift condemnation from U.S. allies over President Trump's comments dismissing the sacrifice of NATO troops in Afghanistan. British
Prime Minister Keir Starmer sharply and publicly criticized those remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I will never forget their courage, their bravery and the sacrifice that they made for their country. There are
many also who were injured, some with life-changing injuries. And so, I consider President Trump's remarks to be insulting and frankly appalling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Quite strong words from the U.K. prime minister who had cultivated a relationship with Trump. Prince Harry, who served two tours in
Afghanistan with the British Army, issued a statement saying, quote, "Thousands of lives were changed forever. Mothers and fathers buried sons
and daughters. Children were left without a parent. Families are left carrying the cost. Those sacrifices deserve to be spoken about truthfully
and with respect."
Listen to what a retired Polish general who commanded the country's special forces in Afghanistan had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. ROMAN POLKO (RET.), COMMANDED POLISH SPECIAL FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN (through translator): Here I believe President Trump crossed a certain red
line because we shed blood for this alliance. We truly sacrificed our own lives. Polish soldiers and special forces wrote wills before this mission.
But they said, no, we won't evade our duty even if we die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, what sparked all this? These are the president's comments in Davos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll say they sent some troops to
Afghanistan or this or that. And they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the front lines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins me now. Of course, there are two things about this. One, they're factually incorrect
because so many nations did do hard frontline combat duty, but also just completely dismissive of their sacrifice. And, Nic, I wonder, it strikes me
that in the span of a couple of days, you have two cases of strong European pushback against President Trump after months of towing the line, first on
Greenland and now this. And I wonder if you see some significance in that.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is strange and peculiar when President Trump is making such a push for Greenland and where
he's sort of parked his narrative and where NATO have parked their narrative, which seems to be joined up because it was a President Trump,
Mark Rutte, secretary general of NATO meeting that President Trump then came out on and posted that there was an agreement underway. And the
agreement, as we understand it from the secretary general of NATO, is to ramp up NATO forces in the Arctic. And this is because President Trump has
asked for it.
President Trump has played down any cost to the U.S. to get what he wants out of Greenland here. So, it's -- so it is somewhat surprising as the
president is focused on, apparently, on NATO support to achieve what he wants in Arctic security around Greenland, yet so talks down the
contribution of international NATO troops in Afghanistan, where, by the way, Denmark, who's sort of at the center of all of this, lost more per
capita than the United States.
[18:05:00]
It belies two things to me, Jim. You and I both covered NATO, U.S. and other troops. I've spent a lot of time with the British in Helmand, a very
dangerous place. Musa Qala, Grishk just to namem but a couple of the places. I think it belies, obviously, the sacrifice that the British prime
minister, that Prince Harry have spoken about. But it also belies an understanding of the war in Afghanistan.
You know, I was with the Italian troops in Herat in the east, with the Lithuanians when they were just joining NATO and they sent troops to
Chaghcharan in the north of Afghanistan, a forlorn place at best. Polish troops were there, Germans in Taleqan, Canadians around Kandahar in the
south. There weren't front lines in that way that you think about a front line in Ukraine or you think about a front line in the First World War,
Second World War, trench warfare. No, the Taliban were in the population, the troops were in the population. The roadside bombs were going off when
they were driving through towns.
There was no front line. Troops there were in danger when they left their base and sometimes in danger inside their bases. I remember being with some
British commandos way up in Helmand, a tiny little village, the only way in and out of there was by helicopter. They were getting mortars in the
compound that they were camping in. A front line doesn't make sense. And the sacrifice, yes, that came all around.
I saw the helicopters spin up at bases to go out and pick up injured troops and bring them back for medical treatment. It was happening on all sides to
all troops, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And so, many of those casualties, as you know, were from roadside bombs. I was in a convoy hit by a roadside bomb and whether they're on the
front lines or not, they're just as deadly, right? Nic Robertson in Greenland, thanks so much. We will have more on Greenland later in the
program with a former U.S. ambassador to Denmark.
Most of the roughly 3,500 allied troops killed in Afghanistan were American, but more than 1,000 troops from other countries, NATO and non-
NATO, also died there. These are just some of the numbers. Canada, for example, lost 158 armed forces personnel, and out of the 50,000 Italian
soldiers that served, 53 died. As for the British troops who fought in Afghanistan, the U.K. armed forces lost 457 service members, and Denmark,
with a population of only around 5 million when the war began, lost more than 40 of its soldiers. All of those countries, we'll remind you, answered
the call after America was attacked on 9/11.
Joining me now is a former member of the U.K. Parliament, Bob Seely. He's also a retired captain in the British Army. Bob, thanks so much for taking
the time.
BOB SEELY, FORMER BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP, FORMER CAPTAIN IN BRITISH ARMY AND AUTHOR, "THE NEW TOTAL WAR": Hi, Jim. Good evening.
SCIUTTO: So, you did, I believe I have this right, four tours in Afghanistan. I'm certain you lost some of your comrades. What was your
reaction to hearing Trump disparage the service and sacrifice of NATO allies?
SEELY: I think it's a mixture of anger and sadness. So, some of the voices you're going to hear are people who are really angry about what he said,
and some are just sad. I think there's a sense that the president is attacking America's allies and some of his oldest allies too.
And it's not so much -- this story has cut through in -- amongst NATO nations, not because it's about geopolitics or about strategy or something
highfaluting, but it's about human beings and the sacrifice of individual ordinary soldiers, men and women, most of whom at some point served
alongside U.S. forces. So, I think there is a sort of slight disbelief and a sadness that this is actually happening because the commitment that both
U.S. soldiers but also NATO soldiers made was, you know, a profound one.
SCIUTTO: You, of course, served in the military. You also served in government as a member of parliament. I wonder if you think in this
collection of Trump attacks on the alliance, this brief attempt to take NATO territory, for instance, in Greenland, this disparagement of the
service of NATO allies in war, does that have an impact on the alliance going forward? I mean, in the simplest terms, does it make NATO allies less
likely to fight alongside the U.S. in the future, to make that sacrifice?
SEELY: I think it is damaging the alliance, but the alliance is a very robust institution. And if you look at the relationship between the U.S.
and countries not only like the U.K., but the U.K. and others, the relationships are very deep, especially since World War II, and very
profound. And disagreements between individuals, however powerful, is not going to destroy the NATO alliance. It's not going to destroy the
relationship between the U.K. and U.S. navies and armed forces and special forces and the communications people and the spies, et cetera.
[18:10:00]
So, -- but it doesn't help it, especially at a time when we need to be united to deal with the Russians and also with the Chinese.
Trump is right to say we need to be doing more and actually his bluntness is about the only thing that's got through to the Europeans. So, I give him
credit for that and politically he's done stuff that people in Europe admire him for. Some people in America don't like it but the stuff he's
doing on mass immigration, on crime in your inner cities, there is resonance with that. But what undermines it is when he talks in the way
that he does about the U.S. not needing other nations. The only nation that has ever summoned NATO Article 5, the collective self-defense, was the
United States after 9/11. And if you look at the numbers of dead, the Danes, the Brits, the Estonians, and the Canadians all suffered
proportionally higher casualties than the U.S.
So, what he's saying doesn't help. It's not going to undermine NATO overnight but when we need to be united, we're probably going in the wrong
direction.
SCIUTTO: I wonder what it does to the trust within NATO, because ultimately, that trust is existential. Do you trust your ally to come to
your defense if attacked or do you not? And it's interesting, I spoke for instance to Sweden's deputy prime minister the other day who said, listen,
I'm from a center-right party. I support for instance limitations on immigration, et cetera. We have a lot we could agree on but it is a red
line for me for a NATO ally to demand another ally's territory, right?
And that's the question, right, is that it's not just personal here, this division. It's substantial. The question is how substantial?
SEELY: It is. It is, but the assumption, I'm assuming, so my assumption is that in Europe amongst European governments there's an assumption that
there's going to be business as normal after Trump. Now, that is not necessarily an assumption that's going to play out because Trump may run
for a third term but Trump may change his mind on what he says. I mean Greenland seems to have erupted and seems now to have died down almost as
quickly as it erupted.
You know, if he then apologizes over these comments or at least rose back from them you may get a form of business as usual. It is worthwhile noting
that there's no movement of American troops, U.S. troops out of NATO countries in Europe apart from the decision potentially to move a
relatively small number of troops out of Romania. So, that is still solid.
I think the geostrategic danger now is that Putin's Russia sees the weakening, the superficial verbal disagreements between NATO allies and
thinks -- and Putin thinks to himself, do I want to test that NATO alliance? Do I want to test Article 5 by doing something rash or by doing
something that is going to try to undermine the alliance, either against Sweden in the Baltic Sea or against -- in ethnic Russian areas in Latvia or
potentially in ethnic Russian areas in Estonia?
So, this is a time when our enemies, our adversaries may look at us and think are they right for the taking or is there a political victory to be
won in Eastern Europe now if the Russians for example think that the U.S. will not support the Baltic Republics if they're attacked or if there's a
form of political warfare destabilizing paramilitary violence murder, et cetera, that's starting to take place in in Eastern Europe and the Baltic
Republics.
SCIUTTO: And as you know the folks in the eastern part of Europe take that threat quite seriously, particularly the Baltic states. Bob Seely, and to
your point -- your book, "The New Total War," speaks about Russia's -- the new total war about Russia's ongoing campaign against the West going back
really to the to the 2000s. Bob Seely thanks so much for joining.
SEELY: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: President Trump's disparagement of the sacrifice of NATO forces in the Afghanistan war is actually not new. He disparaged and dismissed the
sacrifice even of U.S. military veterans during wartime. Most infamously he dismissed the service of the late Senator John McCain a fighter pilot
during the Vietnam War who after his jet was shot down was painfully injured and then held captive in a Vietnamese POW camp for five years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He's not a war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a war hero. Five and a half years --
TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK. I hate to tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Trump himself avoided military service in Vietnam based on a doctor's diagnosis of bone spurs. His attacks on U.S. veterans have at
times gone further.
[18:15:00]
Former Trump chief of staff John Kelly who served 40 years in the military himself told me in my most recent book, "The Return of Great Powers," quote
"The one thing he didn't want, he didn't want any wounded guys. Kelly recalled. They had two groups of amputees, people in wheelchairs. I don't
want those. They don't look good. Kelly recalled Trump saying to him about a military parade. Why do you people all say that these guys who get
wounded or killed are heroes. Kelly also recalled Trump saying to him about a military parade. Why do you people all say that these guys who get
saying, they're suckers for going in the first place and they're losers."
Trump's comments were particularly painful to Kelly himself given he is a gold star father whose own son was killed in Afghanistan.
U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer and many others including the loved ones of fallen soldiers are now demanding an apology. The White House just
responded to the prime minister saying, quote, "President Trump is absolutely right. The United States of America has done more for NATO than
any other country in the alliance has done combined." Notably no apology.
And this just in, the U.S. military says it struck another alleged drug trafficking boat in the eastern Pacific killing two people leaving one
survivor. U.S. Southern Command added that the Coast Guard has been notified to search for and rescue that survivor. At least 115 people have
now been killed in U.S. strikes on suspected drug boats in the region.
Russia, Ukraine and the U.S. are now holding trilateral talks their first since Russia's ongoing invasion. The three sides are meeting in the United
Arab Emirates. The goal remains ending Russia's war in Ukraine. Talks set to continue into the weekend. Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy says
it is still too early to say how those talks are going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): As for the substance of today's discussions it is still too early to draw conclusions.
We will see how the conversation develops tomorrow and what result it produces. It is necessary that not only Ukraine has the desire to end this
war and achieve full security but that a similar desire somehow emerges in Russia as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining us now is Oleksandra Ustinova a member of Ukraine's parliament. Thanks so much for joining us.
OLEKSANDRA USTINOVA, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Thank you for inviting.
SCIUTTO: So, this is of course not the first attempt to negotiate an end to this war. Ukraine we should notice sending its top negotiators. Russia is
only sending representatives from their ministry of defense not senior officials. What does that tell you about Russia's seriousness or lack of
seriousness about these talks.
USTINOVA: Well, what I can tell you is while we're talking right now there are over 100 drones flying to Kyiv and we will have ballistic missiles and
cruise missiles to follow them. This is what Russia's peace look like. And it is obvious for us that are not willing to negotiate because while we are
trying to negotiate and come up with a deal, they continue to destroy our cities and put our people in a freezing mode, because I can tell you I have
seven cells in my apartment and it is terrible.
SCIUTTO: I believe you. It seemed that some of the frustration you're expressing there, it's similar to what we heard from President Zelenskyy
when he was in Davos. It affects saying to Europe to wake up. We need help. You're being too weak. Do you think he's run out of patience, not just with
Europe but with the U.S.?
USTINOVA: It's not -- he didn't run out of patience. He's just tired to explain people that the danger is really close. Because if you look at the
Europeans the strategy is all about 2030. So, we're going to be prepared for the war with Russia that everybody is talking about. So, -- because two
years ago nobody thought there would be a war. Now, they have drones flying to European cities. So, now, everybody is talking about 2030.
What Zelenskyy is trying to tell them, you don't have five or four years left. It's going to be much faster, and you have to be prepared. And not
just investing money in defense, you have literally to ramp up the production of the weapons. Because if there are no weapons but just money
to be invested, it's not going to help. It's not going to stop the drones.
And unfortunately, so far, we don't see a lot of the European countries ramping up the production being ready. We see protests on the streets of
people not wanting to be enlisted to the armies. And one we can -- one we keep telling people that you actually need to start looking in ground
vehicles, in huge cities on these drones because this is what can replace people at the battleground. We don't still see the European countries
ramping up that production as well.
SCIUTTO: Zelenskyy issued something of a warning ahead of these talks in the UAE. He said, quote, "If someone will play games the war will
continue." Do you know what he's referring to you? And listen, a consistent concern, even on this side of the Atlantic, has been that Putin will get in
Trump's ear again and somehow convince him of his view of the war.
[18:20:00]
Do you think Zelensky was concerned about that as well?
USTINOVA: I think President Zelenskyy understands that the United States will try to keep these negotiations up until probably May, and it is very
difficult to negotiate when the other side doesn't want these negotiations.
Then the U.S. is going to face their internal politics because they have the midterms elections coming, and they will be completely focused on their
internal issues because there are elections to Senate, there are elections to Congress, and there are 36 or 38 governors that have to be re-elected.
So, he understands that this is the threat, and Putin understands it. And that's why he's not willing to negotiate now, waiting for the U.S. to turn
into their own politics.
SCIUTTO: Tell me where you're finding hope now then, given all the suffering that Ukraine is going through, particularly in this cold winter
and the lights going out in Kyiv. I mean, do you rest your hopes almost entirely on Ukraine at this point and Ukrainian forces?
USTINOVA: The Ukrainian forces have always been our biggest hope and our protector. And it's not only our hope, it's Europe's hope. Because as long
as they're fighting there against the second biggest army in the world, Europe can sleep quietly at night. We're not sleeping in quiet conditions,
but we at least know that we're not going to be tortured, we're not going to be killed unless by the missile coming in your apartment.
Our hope is we know that eventually the evil always loses. We're fighting for freedom. We're fighting for democracy. We're fighting for the free
country, free Europe, and free future. And one day, it's going to prevail.
SCIUTTO: Oleksandra Ustinova, we appreciate hearing your hope and your confidence.
USTINOVA: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: 5, 6, 7, 8.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: -- protesters brave the frigid air in Minneapolis to march against ICE in Minnesota. All this as Trump officials defend detaining that five-
year-old little boy right in front of his own home. We're going to have the very latest coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: U.S. Homeland Security officials are defending their decision to detain a five-year-old little boy in Minnesota this week as he was
returning from preschool. At a news conference today, Border Patrol official Greg Bovino defended federal agents' tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG BOVINO, U.S. BORDER PATROL COMMAND-AT-LARGE: Here in the U.S. Border Patrol, I will say unequivocally that we are experts in dealing with
children. Let me say that again, experts in dealing with children. Not because we want to be, but because we have to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Experts at dealing with children, he says. Sources tell CNN that President Trump has expressed frustration that his immigration message is
getting lost amid the chaos in Minnesota.
In Minneapolis today, people turned out in the bitter cold to march to protest ICE policies. Hundreds of businesses were encouraged to close for
the day as well. Omar Jimenez is in Minneapolis. And, Omar, beyond their willingness to brave the cold like you are, to go outside and protest, it
strikes me that the strike portion of this is notable. Is that possibly an ongoing tactic here to go on strike, businesses on strike, workers, et
cetera., as another way to try to influence things?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, I've been here in and out really since the shooting and killing of Renee Good back on January 7th.
And this is really the first time we've seen what they're describing as sort of an economic blackout here in Minneapolis, where businesses were
encouraged to close for the day. And many of the people that you think might be in those businesses were instead out on the streets protesting
against federal immigration enforcement here in the Minneapolis area.
Now, as you noted, it's cold in Minneapolis ordinarily, especially this time of year. But today, especially so, with temperatures well past
negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit, with wind chills even further colder than that. It didn't seem to deter a lot of the folks that were out and marching
through downtown Minneapolis at points today.
There was also another protest that happened at the airport here, where about 100 people were detained and arrested in what was described as a
peaceful protest, but clearly trying to be much more visible in many locations throughout the city, as opposed to what we've also seen, which is
many people, which the Department of Homeland Security describe as agitators, follow many of these Border Patrol agents or ICE agents to some
of the neighborhoods where they're trying to do enforcement actions and to be honest, they try to make their lives as difficult as possible.
But what then happens is either the response or trying to carry out some of those things leads to chaos in the neighborhoods. It attracts other people
to those locations. You start to have protests that become a little bit more spontaneous. And so, that's really the range of what we've seen here
in Minneapolis. And temperatures haven't seemed to stop any of it.
SCIUTTO: Well, we appreciate having you there. Thanks so much, Omar, for joining.
In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks closed Friday session mixed stocks coming off two days of solid gains due to the easing of tensions
over Greenland. That's it. Anxiety in global financial markets remains. Safe haven gold hit record highs again Friday. Is now closing in on $5,000
an ounce. Gold posting its biggest weekly gain since the COVID pandemic in 2020. It rises when folks are nervous.
Also, today, silver topped $100 an ounce for the first time ever. And the dollar suffered its biggest weekly drop since last June. In the tech
sector, Intel finished down a whopping 17 percent after it issued a first quarter profit warning. It's the worst day of trading for the stock in more
than a year.
Checking some of today's other business headlines. Some members of Congress want to investigate the newly completed deal to keep TikTok here in the
U.S. The apps U.S. operations have been sold to a joint venture controlled by American investors. Democratic Senator Ed Markey says the agreement
lacks transparency. He says it's unclear whether TikTok's algorithm is truly free of Chinese influence, which led to that bipartisan legislation
to ban it. TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, will retain a stake in TikTok U.S.
Reuters says Amazon is set to announce a steep new round of job cuts as soon as next week. The tech giant announced job cuts of roughly half that
number back in October. Amazon says artificial intelligence made those jobs obsolete. The company's CEO says the firm has too much bureaucracy as well.
Shares of firms controlled by the Indian tycoon Gautam Adani tumbled on signs that the U.S. is ramping up its fraud and bribery investigation. U.S.
officials reportedly asked the court to help summon Adani and one of his top executives. More than $12 billion in market cap was lost today across
his many publicly traded firms.
[18:30:00]
Coming up, prime ministers of Denmark and Greenland meet in Greenland as the U.S. president continues to demand total access to Greenland for
defense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
Donald Trump has ignited a firestorm of anger by questioning the courage of NATO troops in the Afghanistan war. Politicians and military leaders are
demanding an apology now after the U.S. president said that NATO troops stayed a little back from the front lines in Afghanistan. False, by the
way. More than 1,000 non-American NATO troops died in the conflict.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says it's too early to draw conclusions from trilateral peace talks going on in Abu Dhabi. Officials
from Russia, Ukraine, and the U.S. are holding face-to-face discussions for the first time since Russia invaded, full-scale invasion almost four years
ago. Kyiv's top negotiator says the meeting is focused on reaching a dignified and lasting peace.
Millions of Americans are bracing for a massive winter storm set to slam half the country over the weekend. It is expected to bring heavy snow and
Arctic cold to the northeast, freezing rain and ice to the south, a region not used to those conditions. Shoppers emptied store shelves to stock up.
Power outages could last for days in some areas. Thousands of weekend flights are already grounded.
The prime minister of Denmark went to Greenland today to meet with her counterpart there at the latest show of support for the territory which
President Trump says the U.S. must have. The Danish prime minister made clear, though, her country will not abandon Greenland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
METTE FREDERIKSEN, DANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are in a serious situation, as everyone can see. This is now a diplomatic, political
track that we, Denmark, and Greenland will follow together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: The Danish Defense Ministry says its military exercises in the Arctic will continue in the coming weeks. Joining me now, Alan Leventhal, a
former U.S. Ambassador to Denmark. Good to have you.
ALAN LEVENTHAL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO DENMARK: Nice to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, when you watched events in Davos this week, did European unity and Europe in effect drawing a red line over Greenland, did that
force Trump to back down?
LEVENTHAL: Well, I felt leading up to Davos that we were at the edge of a cliff, Jim, and we were looking into an abyss and we didn't know what was
going to happen. If we had used military force in Greenland, it's hard to imagine how NATO could continue to exist, certainly in the form that it is
today.
And when you think about -- the president also talked about imposing a 10 percent tariff on the European countries who oppose military action and
further increasing it to 25 percent in June, and that would threaten the U.S.-E.U. trade relationship, which is a $2 trillion relationship, the
largest trading block in the world, creating millions of jobs in America. I was very concerned what was going to happen.
So, I was relieved when the president said he would not use military force and he would not impose tariffs. So, I think it was a big change at that
point.
SCIUTTO: Do you see, though, a greater willingness among European leaders to stand up to Trump? You know, after a year of saying, well, we've got to
charm our way through all this, and not just on Greenland, by the way, but their reaction to these dismissive comments about the sacrifice of NATO
service members in Afghanistan has been quite public and quite pointed. Do you think they're learning something through this or at least changing
tactics?
LEVENTHAL: Well, first of all, the comments about not standing up in NATO and not risking their lives, it cuts very deep in Denmark. Denmark views
the U.S. as its closest ally. Denmark has fought side by side with the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. Denmark suffered losses to its men
and women at per capita rates higher than the U.S. So, that is something that cuts very deeply in Denmark. They have been terrific allies.
But I think the point is the European countries have stood up. They took a stand. They were not going to allow the threat of higher tariffs to deter
them for opposing military action in Greenland. So, I think I feel we've stepped back from that cliff. We've made progress, but we still have work
to do.
SCIUTTO: Trump is touting the framework of a deal. It's just not clear what's in that deal. And I've talked to Danish officials who say they're
not clear what's in the deal. Do you have any sense from speaking to your contacts that there is a framework here, a way to satisfy both sides?
LEVENTHAL: Well, Jim, we already had a framework.
SCIUTTO: I know.
LEVENTHAL: We had a defense agreement going back to 1951. You know, we have a Pituffik Space Base, which is less than 1,000 miles from the North Pole.
I went there three times when I was ambassador. Under that agreement, we have the right to build many additional bases around Greenland. So, we have
all the flexibility we need.
I understand the president is looking for more, and it's my hope that that can be worked through with the Danish government and the prime minister.
But you're dealing with a government and the prime minister, they love America. They've been -- the prime minister has been one of the most
strongest advocates of the transatlantic relationship. So, we're dealing with friends here, Danes who fought side by side with Americans. So, it's
hard to understand why we're in this place.
I am pleased that the president stepped back from military action, and also, they stepped back from the tariffs. But we still have to work through
this.
SCIUTTO: Is it possible or is it likely that we're in this place because this is how Trump sees the world? He doesn't believe that alliances are in
America's interest. He doesn't seem to value past sacrifice by allies, and he doesn't seem to care too much about shared values, right? It seems to be
just as willing to make a deal with Russia as with, say, Denmark. I mean, is -- should folks wake up to just that Trump has a different view of the
world and America's place in the world?
LEVENTHAL: You know, Jim, it's very interesting. Denmark is a very good example of what a great ally is, not only serving alongside Americans in
wars and suffering grief as casualties, they've also been the fourth largest provider of military support to Ukraine. They understand how close
that war is.
[18:40:00]
And my residence was in Copenhagen. The distance from Copenhagen to Kyiv is like the distance of Boston to Chicago. It's like next door. People
understand what this war means. And I have to tell you, when Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia makes a comment that if the U.S. invades
Greenland, that justifies the Russian taking of Crimea from Ukraine, we should be very concerned about the consequences of any potential action by
the U.S. in Greenland. I'm pleased that we've stepped back from the cliff, but we still have more work to do.
SCIUTTO: Former U.S. Ambassador to Denmark Alan Leventhal, thanks so much for joining.
LEVENTHAL: Delighted to be with you, Jim. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump says that U.S. warships are now moving towards Iran, though he says he would still like to avoid military strikes.
This comes after Iran's deadly crackdown on anti-government protests, which started in late December. Tens of thousands have been arrested, thousands
killed by Iranian authorities and security forces. U.S. officials confirmed that an aircraft carrier and several missile destroyers, all part of a
carrier strike group, are set to arrive in the Middle East in the coming days.
A final firefight and a crucial two minutes. New CNN analysis takes you inside the incredibly risky U.S. operation to remove Venezuelan President
Nicolas Maduro.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The success of the U.S. military raid to capture Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro hinged on just 120 seconds. New CNN analysis reveals the
extraordinary risks involved in those crucial two minutes. If anything had gone differently or wrong, Maduro might still be president of Venezuela and
not in a prison cell in New York facing charges. Katie Polglase takes us inside that mission.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These ghost- like figures are U.S. helicopters on a mission to capture Venezuelan
President Nicolas Maduro. Now CNN has found the operation's success came down to two critical minutes of extremely high risk, according to a review
of eyewitness videos from the scene. Two minutes in which experts say U.S. forces were effectively sitting ducks landing in and lifting off from
Maduro's compound.
[18:45:00]
We modeled out the area, analyzed helicopter flight paths and synchronized key videos to understand how the U.S. successfully infiltrated a heavily
fortified military compound despite the danger involved.
First, you can see Chinooks, a U.S. helicopter used to transport troops flying into the area from the south. Their arrival is met with a barrage of
Venezuelan anti- aircraft fire. Within seconds, more helicopters, this time Black Hawks and attacking aircraft, are seen arriving and circling
overhead. They release intense fire. U.S. General Dan Caine later described this as multiple self-defense engagements. At least 100 people died in the
overall operation, Venezuelan authorities have since claimed. And aftermath pictures hint at the deadly cost. Blood on the ground, large burnt areas
and blown out cars.
Two of the riskiest moments of the U.S. operation are visible in the videos we're going to show you next, a Chinook coming in to land, a point when
U.S. forces are at their most vulnerable. Then you see a Chinook taking off. You see it again in this video as it's gaining altitude. Then a second
Chinook takes off around 20 seconds later.
We then searched for exactly where these helicopters were taking off from, using identifiable geographical features like this building in the
foreground and this dark hillside behind. Our analysis indicates it took off from this location. It's within Fort Tiuna, one of Venezuela's biggest
military complexes. Satellite imagery taken the day after the operation reveals minor damage to these roofs, too minor to be a direct attack, but
possibly the result of a helicopter hovering overhead.
Where Maduro stayed in Fort Tiuna was previously undisclosed, but CNN's analysis gives the most definitive picture yet of where he was that night
and his likely residence. Past videos show the former president seemingly at home at this location. He was inside a building here in 2024. That
building was converted into a large white complex last year, and he was over here in July sitting outside having coffee.
As the Chinooks take off from this location, attack helicopters can be seen circling overhead and firing to protect the Chinooks as they depart. We
spoke to a former member of the U.S. Air Force's elite special warfare team, Wes Bryant, about this critical fighting.
WES BRYANT, MASTER SERGEANT, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Clearly, you know, I think this was the best move to land right on the compound because the key
here was, of course, speed and surprise. But it was also the timing. They needed to get in and out as quick as possible.
POLGLASE: How many of the helicopters in this operation would be landing right on the compound?
BRYANT: I would say likely up to two.
POLGLASE: So, if it's just one or two helicopters, is there a chance that Maduro could be on board?
BRYANT: There is a chance, absolutely. I mean, he would have been on board one of those Chinooks.
POLGLASE (voice-over): Bryant believes the operation was ultimately quite lucky.
BRYANT: I think it largely had to do with the element of surprise. It's not going to happen again. You know, this seamlessly, by any means. And it
could have gone entirely differently. Just one small factor could have flipped the coin on this.
POLGLASE (voice-over): As he awaits trial, Maduro's fate still rests in American hands, a fact both extraordinary and intensely controversial.
Katie Polglase, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: In response to CNN's findings, U.S. Southern Command said it had nothing further to add beyond General Dan Caine's comments back on January
3rd regarding the operation.
Well, weather permitting, the climber Alex Honnold, of free solo fame, will try what no one has ever done before, that is climb a 101-story skyscraper
without any ropes or safety harnesses. His attempt is scheduled to air live on Netflix in just over an hour. First, however, Honnold sits down. We'll
see you then. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: In today's Good Brief, rock climber Alex Honnold of free solo fame will attempt to do what no one has ever done before, and that is scale
Taiwan's tallest building, the Taipei 101, all 101 floors of glass and steel. And he'll do it as he tends to do.
No ropes, no parachute, no safety net. Netflix will air his attempt live starting in just about an hour, though rain could delay that start. The
husband and father of two young girls sat down with our Elizabeth Wagmeister, and she had a big question for him. Why do this?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX HONNOLD, CLIMBER: Knowing that you're going to die isn't inherently scary. I mean, like, you know that you're going to die. Like, are you
feeling fear about that right now?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: No, but I'm not on the side of a mountain.
HONNOLD: When I'm doing a real free solo, like something challenging, I just -- I'm focused on what I'm doing. And so, I'm not thinking about all
the other things. And that's kind of why you think about a lot of those things ahead of time, to sort of do all the processing that you need and
then commit to the path that you're on. And then when you climb, you're sort of unencumbered by all those other thoughts, ideally. I mean,
sometimes you get up there and you're like, ohm my God, what am I doing?
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Alex Honnold is doing what he loves, but what most would consider an absolute nightmare. Climbing tall, daunting mountains
without the use of ropes, harnesses, or any protective gear using just his hands and feet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's so dangerous.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): That's Honnold climbing El Capitan's more than 3,000-foot granite wall in Yosemite for the 2018 Oscar winning documentary,
Free Solo.
HONNOLD: It's been a lifelong dream of mine to climb the skyscraper.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Honnold's next challenge is something else that's never been done before. He'll attempt to scale one of the tallest
skyscrapers in the world, the Taipei 101 Tower in Taiwan, 101 floors and more than 1,600 feet tall. This time, we'll see his climb as it happens.
The event will be broadcast live on Netflix.
WAGMEISTER: How did this come to you? Was it Netflix or was it your idea?
HONNOLD: Well, so the original idea of climbing a building actually sort of came to some friends of mine like more than a decade ago, and we scouted
some buildings at the time, and it was a proposed TV thing that kind of fell apart. And so, it's been kind of simmering on the back burner. The
production company Plimsoll that I've worked with on several other projects maybe pitched it to Netflix and then it sort of happened.
It will be the biggest urban free solo climb ever.
And it's interesting because even from a live sports perspective or something like a live TV perspective, I'm like it's not that different than
watching, you know, like live football or MMA or other things like that, it seems more dramatic because the consequences are so much higher, but the
risk, the actual likelihood of having an injury are, I would say -- you know, I mean, I would say close to zero, like basically zero. I feel like
it's going to be fine.
Whereas other sports, you know, like people are going to get hurt for sure. They're just probably not going to die. And it's just kind of a weird --
you know, it's like it's funny that people see the high consequences and they're like, that seems crazy. But you're kind of like, well, it's very
low-risk though. Whereas other things that you watch all the time are incredibly high-risk.
WAGMEISTER: To hear you say it's very low risk, 99.9 percent of people watching this are thinking, oh, my gosh, this is very high-risk.
HONNOLD: Well, it's very high consequence. I mean, that's the, -- I think it's important to differentiate. Like if something happens, I would die.
Though actually on this particular building, that's not even totally true because there are balconies every eight floors. Just the geometry of the
building, like the shape of the building is such that you actually could fall in tons of places and not actually die, which makes it in some ways
safer than a lot of rock-climbing objectives.
WAGMEISTER: How did you settle on this particular building?
HONNOLD: Yes, I scouted a few of the tallest buildings in the world over time and looked at tons of photos and kind of like considered things. But
actually, we went to Taipei for the first time, like more than a decade ago. And basically, as soon as I touched the building, I was like, this is
perfect. Because it just hits all the sweet spots. The building, Taipei 101 is singular.
WAGMEISTER: It's pretty incredible.
HONNOLD: It's so striking.
WAGMEISTER: Yes.
[18:55:00]
HONNOLD: It sticks out. It's insane. From a distance, it looks insane, like it looks impossible. But then when you get right up close to it, you start
grabbing the actual metal trim around the windows and things, you're like, oh, actually, this is perfectly suited for a human hand. It's like, it just
works.
I have to fully focus on the task at hand and execute well.
You want to do something that's challenging for the right reasons, that doesn't feel contrived, that doesn't feel like a big deal. It's like
beautiful. It's aesthetic. It's everything. It's perfect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: I've been to the top of that building. I would not climb it. Finally, travelers usually rave about France's high-speed rail service. I
do, though one change earlier this month proves you can't please everyone. The TGV, as it's known, has introduced a child-free premium class carriage,
promising privacy and a dedicated private space for a limited number of passengers without kids.
But that's leading to a huge backlash. Some say it's discrimination against children. This optimum class is being offered on many routes to and from
Paris after facing some pressure to do so for years.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Have a good weekend. Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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