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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: U.S.- Saudi Nuclear Deal; Trump Threatens to Target Iranian Infrastructure; June 2027 Date Set for Maduro and His Wife in Criminal Trial; OpenAI Says A.I. Models Went Rogue and Hacked a Rival Firm; Trump Tariff Deadline Looms; Wildfires Scorch Parts of France And Spain; Democrats Push for Justice for Epstein Survivors. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 22, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, the United States has approved a deal that would let Saudi Arabia enrich nuclear fuel on Iran. U.S. President Donald Trump plans
to attack civilian infrastructure every time Iran attacks ships in the Strait of Hormuz. And OpenAI admits a test agent broke into a different
company's servers while trying to apparently cheat on a cybersecurity test. Those stories and much more coming up.
First, though, the Trump administration has announced a nuclear agreement with Saudi Arabia, which officials say could lead to the kingdom enriching
its own nuclear fuel. The 30-year agreement would involve U.S. companies developing the Saudi program. We're told the deal does not require Saudi
Arabia to adopt the gold standard of oversight by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
The deal now heads to the U.S. Congress, where a House Democrat, John Garamendi, says it will likely face fierce debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): We should never, ever do this. Why would we ever set up a situation in which there would be the likelihood of nuclear
proliferation? We've already got around with an ability to enrich uranium to the point of being able to make a bomb, and we're going to turn that
over to Saudi Arabia? No, we're not. This is just terrible, terrible policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: John Erath is the senior policy director for the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. So first, a general question, do you believe
that this is terrible policy as it relates to nuclear non-proliferation?
JOHN ERATH, SENIOR POLICY DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR ARMS CONTROL AND NON- PROLIFERATION: Well, I'm a diplomat, so I'm going to answer diplomatically and say that that really depends. We don't know the details of the
arrangement with Saudi Arabia yet.
We know that presumably they will be able to enrich uranium up to a point. We don't know what safeguards or assurances will be placed upon such
activity. So, the devil will be in the details, as it were.
SCIUTTO: Well, one detail is that it appears Saudi Arabia will not be required to adopt the IAEA's additional protocol accepted standard. Is that
a problem?
ERATH: It is potentially a very big problem. The additional protocol would require a great deal of transparency measures, additional inspections,
additional information provided to the IAEA, which would provide assurance that Saudi Arabia was not engaging in enrichment activities that would lead
to nuclear weapons capability.
In the absence of that, there should be some parallel, reciprocal kind of arrangement to provide the same kind of assurance. If that is not present,
it is a very big problem.
SCIUTTO: Tell us, for the sake of our viewers, what is the gap between domestic uranium enrichment for civilian uses, including power generation,
and having the capability to build a nuclear weapon, to develop the fuel for a nuclear weapon and build a nuclear weapon?
ERATH: If you're talking about nuclear weapons, the key choke point, the point at which you want to direct your nonproliferation efforts, is
accumulating fissile material. That is to say highly enriched uranium or plutonium, the fuel for a nuclear reaction.
Most commercial reactors that are set up to provide nuclear energy use low enriched uranium. You would take the uranium and you would further enrich
it up to weapons grade. The additional protocol would provide information if you were doing that, if you were enriching beyond that necessary for
civilian use.
[18:05:00]
Up to levels that are only make sense if we're building weapons or developing the capability to build weapons. This was the problem with Iran.
They were enriching uranium far beyond that level that would be necessary for any peaceful use.
SCIUTTO: If you're Iran watching this and part of the administration policy here, a strategy as relates to the Iran war is to use military
pressure attacks to get Iran to the negotiating table with the express goal of limiting Iran's nuclear program, if you watch the U.S. making this deal
with one of your regional rivals, Saudi Arabia, does that make Iran more or less likely to negotiate?
ERATH: Iran is likely to negotiate because it is in Iran's interest to do so. That doesn't change. The interesting question is, is the administration
negotiating in parallel with Iran and Saudi Arabia, allowing them the same levels of enrichment capability. That's something that it's very logical to
assume that Saudi Arabia would demand in a negotiation that anything Iran has a right to do, they get the same thing. So, I can see the negotiations
guiding each other.
SCIUTTO: Now, how about then more just in terms of power balance in the region? If you see Saudi Arabia move on this path and at least open a
pathway, a potential pathway towards developing nuclear weapons, is it reasonable to conclude that other regional powers will then calculate that
they need a path to nuclear weapons? In other words, to keep the balance of power.
ERATH: Saudi Arabia has said that if Iran has nuclear weapons capability, they would develop something similar. Other countries have not been quite
so explicit, but it is reasonable to assume that they will reconsider their commitment to non-proliferation should there be two or more nuclear powers
in the region.
Nuclear weapons are seen as providing some sense of security. U.S. policy is that their only purpose is to deter use of nuclear weapons against us.
So, the same dynamic would take place in the Middle East.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And the countries look at the nations that have been attacked from abroad, say Ukraine and Iran without nuclear weapons and ones
such as North Korea that have them, different outcome. John Erath, thanks so much for joining.
ERATH: You're welcome.
SCIUTTO: Well, speaking of the war in Iran, President Trump threatened today to target Iran's civilian infrastructure every time Iran fires at a
ship in the Strait of Hormuz. He says, quote, "any time the Islamic Republic of Iran shoots at a ship in the Strait, whether it be by missile,
rocket, drone, or any other device or weapon, the United States will bomb and destroy one bridge or power plant."
The remains of four U.S. soldiers killed in the Iran war returned to the U.S. today. Iranian strikes in Jordan and Iraq killed those soldiers. Trump
and other top officials stood by their, at their repatriation, what's known as a dignified transfer at an air base in Delaware. So far, 18 U.S. service
members have been killed in the war with Iran. Thousands more remain in harm's way, fighting a war which remains deeply unpopular in this country.
The U.S. has struck Iran for 12 nights in a row in this latest exchange of fire. Iran has been firing back not just at U.S. military bases in the
region, but also U.S. allies.
Kevin Liptak is at the White House. Each side seems to be escalating on its own every day. What is the White House plan going forward? Have they
established any sort of timeline for how long this current chapter, if you want to call it that, of hostilities will continue, or is it until they get
some specific outcome?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: They do not have a timeline, at least one that they're sharing publicly. And you are starting
to hear concerns from administration officials that this strategy of night- after-night attacks just is not doing anything to shake the Iranians off their position. And in fact, American intelligence has assessed the same
thing, that the type of strikes that the president has been conducting over the last 11 days are unlikely to move the Iranian government off of some of
their positions.
Now, the president in policy meetings going over the last week or so has been receiving options for escalating this conflict potentially.
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And you see in the movement of American resources that the Pentagon is preparing for the chance that the president orders up some of those
options. They're rushing the F-16s, the F-35s to the Middle East, they're moving the aerial re-tanking fuelers, they are also moving some forces back
into position if the president decides to go in that direction, but at least for now, he has not ordered up any of the more escalatory options.
Instead, what you see him doing is ramping up his public rhetoric.
You know, today he said that the U.S. would go after one road or bridge in Iran for every tanker that Iran fires on in the Strait of Hormuz. You've
heard him talk about go after -- going after Pickaxe Mountain, that fortified nuclear facility right in the middle of Iran. He even reposted an
article today that reported that he had instructed CENTCOM to, quote, "open up the gates of hell" after the deaths of those Americans. But so far, none
of that has happened. He's just ordered up these nightly strikes, which have so far failed to shake lose any of the concessions that they want from
Iran.
And the phrase that you keep hearing from administration officials, including at the Pentagon, is the Dover test. You know, the president was
at Dover today. And what I think he's weighing is whether the steps that he orders up are worth the consequences that could follow. Are they worth the
deaths of more American troops? You know, the deaths of those four Americans over the weekend just underscore the fact that the president does
not need to order up a ground invasion into Iran. The risks are still very acute for the thousands of U.S. forces that are arrayed across the Middle
East.
And so, he's clearly at a decision point here. I think he's in in these threats. He is openly suggesting that these are things that he's
considering. But at least for now, he still seems on this pathway that has led to something of a deadly impasse.
SCIUTTO: Kevin Liptak at the White House. Thanks so much. Well, we now have a date for the criminal trial of former Venezuelan president, Nicolas
Maduro, and his wife, Cilia Flores. Earlier in New York, federal prosecutors and attorneys for the Maduro's agreed to a June 2027 start. A
couple have pleaded not guilty to multiple charges of gun running and drug smuggling, narco-terrorism. They were captured by the U.S. military in
January, flown back to the U.S. to face charges after Maduro's ouster. His then deputy, Delcy Rodriguez, was sworn in as the country's acting
president.
Well, since the January capture of Maduro, the Financial Times reports that the U.S. has seized more than $13 billion in oil revenue from Venezuela.
The Trump administration has said the oil profits would benefit both Americans and Venezuelans. But per the Financial Times, it's unclear
exactly how much money has been sent back to Caracas.
This is Venezuela is in desperate need of aid after last month's deadly and devastating earthquakes. The toll just staggering. U.N. figures report 5200
confirmed dead so far, more than 16,000 injured, almost 18,000 without housing, and many still remain missing.
Joining me now, Venezuelan opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez. Good to have you back.
LEOPOLDO LOPEZ, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION POLITICIAN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, first on the earthquake itself, can you can you give us a sense of how Venezuela is recovering?
LOPEZ: Well, it's been tremendous. It was a double earthquake. As you just showed thousands of victims and still every day, there are hundreds of more
victims that are recognized. And it shocked the entire nation. It hit Caracas and the wider state, but it shook the entire nation. And it was two
earthquakes. But there was a third earthquake that was the incapacity of the state to have any sort of immediate response.
For the first 72 hours, there was absolutely no response by the state. And that show that Venezuela is effectively a failed state. It's a state that
is not being capable of providing security, relief, stability or anything to the Venezuelan people.
SCIUTTO: So, what is the update on a transition to an elected government that is not effectively the remains of the Maduro government? And are you
satisfied with the pace of that transition?
LOPEZ: Well, transitions are a process. And I think that transition started on January the 3rd. And it's very positive that we are seeing now
Maduro in front of a federal judge in Brooklyn because of the crimes that he committed. All Venezuelans know that he is a criminal, and that is very
positive. A large majority of Venezuelans supported that capture of Maduro.
Since that moment, a transition process has started. And that transition, it's a multi-layered process. One that is very evident, and I think that
it's important to note, is the geopolitical transition. Up until January the 3rd, Venezuela was a country under the influence of China, of Russia,
of Iran, of Cuba, of the narcos from Mexico, from Colombia. And that has changed.
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Today, Venezuela is under the influence of the United States. And I believe that that is positive. Then there is the second transition that it's not
going to the pace that many expected, the economic recovery. It's happening. There are more companies interested in Venezuela, more oil
companies, energy companies, and others that have shown interest, but there is still not a deployment of capital that Venezuelans are feeling.
And to your question of the Venezuelan people, they are today not seeing the economy recover. I think that there are two main issues that the
Venezuelan people everywhere in the country are feeling. One, inflation, and two, the lack of electricity. In most parts of the country, there are
electricity shutdowns for 2 to 12 hours.
SCIUTTO: Sure. So, $13 billion that the U.S. has gotten from Venezuelan oil, is any of that money going to the Venezuelan people?
LOPEZ: Well, I don't know. This is something that has been a black box for many years, for many years. So, where do we come from? We come from a
management of the oil industry where sanctions were being evaded, oil was being sold to China at a 30 percent discount, it was being paid in
cryptocurrency, and Maduro himself recognized that more than $20 billion were missing a few years ago.
Now, we are told by the U.S. officials that that funding is going to an account with the oversight of the U.S., with the audit of KPMG. I have not
seen any of the reports. However, I assume that that money will flow to the interests of the Venezuelan people.
SCIUTTO: You have Maduro going to trial in New York, but you have Maduro's deputy still running the country, and all the people under Delcy Rodriguez,
who were part of that same regime, who you've accused of criminal behavior, and the U.S. does as well. Why should we believe the criminal behavior is
stopped?
LOPEZ: Well, I think now there is the oversight of the United States, and that's one thing. And the United States has an effective oversight, not
just on the funds, but on many of the things that are going on in Venezuela. So, things have changed in Venezuela.
Are we where we want to be? No. We want a full transition to democracy, and the most important milestone for that is an election. However, to get to
that election, we need to start that process. And it has been announced that next week, on August -- the first week of August, there will be the
first round of negotiations to decide a new electoral board that will decide the timeline and the elections that should happen in 2027.
And I think that's a positive announcement. I think that that will give certainty, not just for the political transition, but to anyone, anyone
looking at Venezuela from the economic perspective, political, there needs to be certainty.
Delcy Rodriguez does not provide stability, does not provide certainty, and we need a full transition. It will take time. It will be a process, and I
believe that the steps for that process are being taken.
SCIUTTO: Leopoldo Lopez, thanks so much for joining and giving us an update.
LOPEZ: Thank you very much.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, A.I. models going rogue. Why a new disclosure from OpenAI is raising enormous safety concerns for the A.I. industry.
Plus, tech earnings season is officially underway on Wall Street. What results from the Google parent company, Alphabet, say about the state of
the A.I. race?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, a mostly lower day on Wall Street as investors gear up for the start of tech earnings season. Oil
prices settled at their highest levels in almost six weeks amid the expanding U.S.-Iran war and new concerns about the safety of vessels
transiting the Red Sea. Houthi rebels in Yemen are warning ships to avoid using the Bab el-Mandeb Strait to reach Saudi ports. Much of Saudi Arabia's
oil exports pass through that Red Sea waterway now that the Strait of Hormuz is effectively closed.
As for those tech earnings, Alphabet reported stronger than expected revenue growth after the closing bell. The parent company of Google says
cloud revenues spiked more than 80 percent. But its massive spending on A.I. continues to worry. Investors and shares are lower in after-hours
trading.
We have a number of other notable A.I. headlines. A White House tech advisor is accusing the Chinese firm Moonshot of training its lower-cost
A.I. model with Anthropic's more advanced technology. NVIDIA CEO, Jensen Huang, however, told Axios that American A.I. firms have nothing to fear
from China's up-and-comers.
Also, today, OpenAI says two of its experimental models escaped their testing environment and hacked into a rival company without any human
knowing about it. It's the kind of incident that A.I. and cybersecurity officials have been warning about for some time now. They like it to an
engineered virus escaping from a biocontainment lab. Scary scenario.
Bob O'Donnell joins me as the president and founder of TECHnalysis Research. So, Bob, first on the earnings, if I can, because the big
question hanging over the market has been, in effect, does all this A.I. investment and spending, is it getting backed up by A.I.-related earnings?
And when you look at a company like Alphabet, are we seeing that? Is its A.I. spending justified by what it's making from A.I.?
BOB O'DONNELL, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, TECHNALYSIS RESEARCH: Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Jim. Yes, I think it's a great example. And
by the way, I fully expect that this will be the first of many raises when it comes to CapEx spending that we're going to hear over the next week or
two from the other major tech players.
Because what we're seeing out there is that the demand for A.I. services is growing enormously in regular companies, in trucking companies, in food
companies, in financial service companies. They're all spending huge amounts of money on A.I. services. And to power those services, you need
this A.I. infrastructure.
So, Google is spending this money. And they themselves, in this particular case, also benefited from it because their Google Cloud division, which is
the third largest of the cloud providers behind Amazon and Microsoft, grew tremendously, as you mentioned, over 80 percent. So, even they themselves
directly see it, but it's all the other customers that are using these services that are driving it.
Last point I'll make, too, is let's not forget what we just saw both Meta and xAI, part of SpaceX, do, which is to say, hey, even if we have excess
capacity, we can rent it out because the demand is so high. So, whatever is spent to build up this A.I. infrastructure is going to be used by somebody.
SCIUTTO: OK. So, let's look at this OpenAI case now, because we are deep into sci-fi territory here now when you have the model escaping its testing
environment without human knowledge, breaking into another one. I mean, how bad a sign is that?
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O'DONNELL: Well, it is a bad sign. And what makes it even worse and what's even more disconcerting was it was not directed to go after any particular
company. It was directed to complete a task. And it figured out on its own that, oh, well, I think the best way to complete this task is go to this
other site where I think the information I need is and then break into it in order to get the information. It wasn't about breaking in. It was about
getting the information. So, it was sort of a secondary impact of breaking in.
But it just shows you, well, what if it was intentionally trying to do that? And that's really why people, I think, are so terribly concerned.
SCIUTTO: Yes, basically, the machines decided to cheat, didn't they?
O'DONNELL: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Bob O'Donnell, founder of TECHnalysis, thanks so much.
O'DONNELL: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Checking some of today's other business headlines now. The European Union is signing off on the merger of Paramount Skydance and
Warner Brothers Discovery, the parent company of CNN. The E.U. says it will allow the deal to go through as long as Paramount ditches its film
distribution joint venture with Universal Pictures. In the U.S. today, though, a judge placed a 14-day hold on the completion of the merger.
Tesla reported mixed results after Wednesday's closing bell on Wall Street. Elon Musk's EV firm sold more vehicles than expected in the second quarter.
However, profits fell short of expectations. The company's free cash flow fell for the first time in more than two years due to its massive spending
on A.I. and robotics. Shares are falling in after-hours trading.
Elon Musk, though, is recommitting to his criticism of Christopher Nolan's hit film, "The Odyssey," for some reason. Musk says his A.I. platform,
Grok, will now make its own full-length version of the classic work. He says Grok's version will be historically accurate. Musk has criticized
casting decisions in Nolan's film. He says that that Grok A.I. movie will be ready by the end of the year.
Coming up, President Trump's global tariffs are set to expire Friday, but the administration is looking to extend his trade war. I'm going to speak
with the head of the European Parliament's International Trade Committee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Trump has approved a deal allowing Saudi Arabia to enrich nuclear fuel for civilian reactors. The agreement is deeply controversial because
enriching uranium could lead Saudi Arabia to be able to develop nuclear weapons. The U.S. Congress would have to approve the deal for it to move
forward.
The bodies of four U.S. service members killed in the Iran war will return to the U.S. today. President Trump attended what's known as a dignified
transfer ceremony at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where a total of 18 U.S. service members have died in the war so far.
New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani says city police do not have the authority to arrest Israel's prime minister, who is planning to attend the U.N. General
Assembly in September. The International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu in 2024, accusing him of war crimes against
Palestinians. Mamdani had previously said his office was at least exploring the possibility of arresting the prime minister.
A new U.S. tariff hit Brazil today, 25 percent on a range of products, including farm machinery and clothing. When the tariff was announced last
week, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio accused Brazil's president of not negotiating with the U.S. in good faith. The Brazilian president, Lula da
Silva, calls the tariff illegal.
President Trump's 10 percent global tariff, however, expires this Friday. After the Supreme Court blocked his initial set of tariffs, the U.S.
president relied on another statute, which was limited to 150 days. A top German think tank says that more than 60 percent of German industrial
companies have been hurt by those U.S. tariffs. That number climbs to almost 75 percent for German automakers.
Joining me now is Bernd Lange. He's a member of the European Parliament, chair of its Committee on International Trade. Thanks so much for joining.
BERND LANGE, CHAIR, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT'S COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE: Pleasure.
SCIUTTO: So, Politico is giving you credit as the secret negotiator that helped delay a U.S.-E.U. trade agreement, which you and others saw as
damaging to E.U. interests.
LANGE: I would not say that I have really wished to delay the process, but we have a normal democratic legislative process, and we want to be sure
that our legislation respects the deal and also has a lot of safeguards.
And therefore, it took a little bit more time than perhaps the decision in the United States where only one man is deciding everything, sometimes also
on an illegal basis. This should not happen in the European Union. This legislation is court-proof.
SCIUTTO: So, the president is, of course, threading a whole new round of tariff or rounds of tariffs in different categories. Do you still consider
those illegal?
LANGE: I think so, but that's not my job. I guess the United States have a lot of courts and they will decide on. But this is another indication that
there is no predictability, and that's the most important part of the game that we want to have a deal where on both sides this deal is respected, and
therefore, we have security and predictability for a longer time. And that's important for investment and for trade policy. And you see the
figures that a lot of companies are really harmed by this uncertainty.
SCIUTTO: Have you seen any positive movement then? I mean, the Supreme Court decision was supposed to end this, or to some degree. The president
certainly has not shied away, and he's finding new categories and new authorities. But in your negotiations with the U.S., do you sense any
movement towards some sort of agreement?
LANGE: Sometimes I had the feeling that the deal of Scotland last year is respected. But this uncertainty is still there. So, you said some moments
ago that the actual tariff regime is expiring on the 24th of July. That's in a few days, and nobody knows what will happen after that and how this
will fit in the deal we had with the United States. So, this is not a predictable and secure way of dealing with this.
SCIUTTO: You and a number of other European officials, as well as Canadian officials I've spoken with, Asian as well, have said, out of frustration
with the U.S. approach to these negotiations, tariffs, and trade, that they're looking to build business elsewhere. And of course, you can't
replace the U.S. as a trading partner.
[18:35:00]
But is the E.U. finding ways to grow outside of the United States, in effect, to replace some of that trade?
LANGE: Really, replacing is not possible, that's for sure. But the diversification is there. So, we have a lot of trade agreements with India,
with Indonesia, with Australia, and we are looking for new market chances for trade, but also for investment. No doubt about it. And also, the
Mercosur with Brazil, with Argentina, Paraguay, and Uruguay gives a new momentum and a new perspective for European exports.
And I guess, once again, to the question of delaying, I think so. And this is also linked to the uncertainty we saw after the deal of Scotland. We saw
the so-called derivatives, which were really tariffed not for 15 percent, but for 50, a lot of machinery, motorcycles, and agricultural technique.
And then we have this Greenland exercise, where President Trump used tariffs in a coercive way.
And all this together leads really to a clear perspective in European industry looking to alternatives for the business, which United States can
compensate this in a quite reasonable time frame, but to have additional elements for a proper business on a, let's say, secure and reliable basis.
SCIUTTO: President Trump, as you know, says that he uses tariffs because the U.S. has been treated badly or unfairly in trade. From your
perspective, have these tariffs encouraged Europe to be a better trading partner with the U.S.?
LANGE: We are an open and fair-trading partner, and we have this WTO dispute settlement mechanism. If there is any problems, we are open to
discuss this and dispute this in a proper way. But we want to respect the rule of law and not the rule of the power. And therefore, I guess we should
really have a proper discussion and not trying to give pressure to us and undermine the proper legislative basis.
SCIUTTO: Bernd Lange, we appreciate you joining and wish you the best of luck in your negotiations.
LANGE: Thanks a lot.
SCIUTTO: Well, parts of Europe are dealing with yet another intense heat wave, increasing the severity of droughts and wildfires, some scientists
say. It is driven by climate change. In southern France, hundreds have been forced to flee their homes amid a fast-moving blaze east of Marseille. One
official says more than 1,000 firefighters fought all night on Tuesday.
In a different fire to the west, two firefighters have died near the Bordeaux airport. And hundreds of firefighters are battling Spain's largest
wildfire of the year in the central part of the country. Spain's prime minister says the country has had four times as many wildfires this year as
in 2025.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): More than 100,000 hectares have been burned as a result of the wildfire or wildfires
across Spain. To put that into perspective, that is the annual average that Spain experienced over the past decade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just ahead is the nomination of Todd Blanche to serve as U.S. Attorney General. His roadblocks and the Democrats highlight what they call
the abandonment of the rule of law and the lack of justice for the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: As President Trump's attorney general picked, Todd Blanche, faces roadblocks from at least two Republicans for his confirmation. Senate
Democrats hosted a forum today spotlighting what they call the Justice Department's abandonment of the rule of law and its failure to deliver
justice for survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.
In the House, Democrats are investigating whether the late sex offender acted as a foreign agent. Ranking Judiciary Committee member, Jamie Raskin,
is asking for the release of all records relating to Epstein and more than a dozen nations including Israel, Saudi Arabia and Russia.
Jeff Swartz is a law professor at Cooley Law School and a former Miami judge. Jeff good to have you back.
JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER JUDGE, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT AND PROFESSOR, THOMAS M. COOLEY LAW SCHOOL: Nice to see you.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, you know, how serious you look at this investigation because as you know there's been a whole host of suspicions and even
conspiracy theories swirling around Jeffrey Epstein beyond his crimes as to whether he was collecting information for foreign intelligence services
using that information to pressure or extort people. I mean, from your perspective is this a serious investigation?
SWARTZ: I think it's a serious investigation. I think it's a highlight that Jamie Raskin is going to go forward if he becomes the chairman of the
Judiciary Committee. The kind of guy that when he's walking down the streets towards you, you want to turn around and go in the other direction.
But I think that under these circumstances, I've looked through a lot of reports about what Epstein did or did not do, and so far, I haven't heard
anything where he came into the United States and went to federal officials and tried to influence their decision-making process, which is what FARA,
that is the Foreign Agents Registration Act, require that he register to do.
We know that he has been advising and had been advising people in the Middle East, MBS, a former prime minister of Israel and other people even
to the Russian delegate to the United Nations and trying to convince them how to deal with Donald Trump and how to get what they want, but that's not
something that FARA requires him to register for. It's not like Paul Manafort who was getting paid to influence people.
SCIUTTO: So, on the enforcement of FARA, because I remember back a few years ago including in the first Trump administration and of course Paul
Manafort was one of the targets, there was aggressive prosecution under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Is that still happening?
SWARTZ: Well, I think Manafort's problems started before Donald Trump became president. I think it was the Obama administration that actually
indicted him. Trump did nothing to stop that prosecution even though he probably could have because he had a DOJ that would fight back on some of
that stuff.
In today's world the chances are that he would tell them drop it, and I think the same thing would happen with any possibility of going after
Epstein or the people around him at this point. I don't see Todd Blanche letting any of those prosecutions go forward.
SCIUTTO: So, where do we stand months into this Epstein saga -- well, it's years into the saga itself, but in terms of the Epstein files, you know,
promises to release everything comes out in dribs and drabs, still questions as to what came out, what was redacted, and also, certainly just
whether the victims themselves received justice. Has it moved forward sufficiently in your view?
[18:45:00]
SWARTZ: I'm sorry, I'm laughing because I'm seeing on my screen all of the redacted stuff that came out and there's literally nothing there. I had
said a long time ago they need the FBI 302s and they're not getting them and I don't think they're ever going to see them.
This dribs and drabs is all intended to stall off until after the midterms. And then, I think after the midterms this will come to an end. I think the
Judiciary Committee and the Oversight Committee are going to make the FBI and or the Justice Department as a whole turn over all of this material
unredacted so they can see what's there. That's about the only justice that you're going to see, because I don't see the DOJ going after anybody in the
Epstein case at this point until after 2028, and that's probably going to be too late.
SCIUTTO: Such a shame.
SWARTZ: It is.
SCIUTTO: Justice delayed at a minimum. Jeff Swartz always good to have you on. Thanks so much.
SWARTZ: Nice to see you. Take care. Have a good day.
SCIUTTO: Well, French authorities are investigating the death of a professional model scout who introduced multiple young women to Jeffrey
Epstein. Daniel Siad was mentioned in the Epstein file some 2,000 times. CNN had aired an exclusive interview with him just weeks ago. Our Melissa
Bell is in Paris and has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A French model recruiter linked to Jeffrey Epstein has been found dead at his home in the
suburb of Colombe near Paris according to prosecutors. Daniel Siad had been the subject of renewed scrutiny in the wake of the latest releases of the
Epstein files by the U.S. Department of Justice.
For over a decade he'd arranged for the late sex offender to meet several models. CNN's Katie Polglase recently interviewed Siad who said he'd had no
reason to believe that two women he'd recommended to Epstein had been harmed by him even though those two women told CNN that they were indeed
abused by Jeffrey Epstein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL SIAD: My work with him has been strictly professional. I never doubt that -- because I never heard anything from anyone I introduced him
who came back to me that they had a bad situation with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: Siad said he believed that Epstein was a casting director for Victoria's Secret and for a modeling agency. CNN has found no evidence to
support that claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIAD: I didn't know a lot about him until when he comes to Paris and I told you again he said he pays these his due to the government. So, for me
he's free man, he's clean. He was such a powerful person and how can I not trust him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: Epstein ties to the modeling industry are part of ongoing investigations including a criminal probe launched this year in Paris
involving Siad according to the city's chief prosecutor. Now, Siad's lawyer has pointed to the stress that the man was under due to the unbearable
waiting and I quote, "the stigma cast upon him." Siad's lawyer's statement also calling for respect for his loved ones as they mourn adding that he
died and was innocent.
Siad himself was also facing accusations of abuse. A model accused him of rape when she was working in France in 1990. Siad had also denied that
accusation. His death certainly marks the latest macabre twist in the Epstein saga and a reminder of the ripple effects of the revelations from
the Epstein files and of the fact that they are far from over.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: This is in the CNN, Iran-backed Houthis in Yemen claim now to have struck two Saudi oil tankers. The Iran backed militants say the ships
violated the blockade in the Red Sea and that they attacked the two vessels with multiple drones and missiles. The Houthis announced a naval blockade
on Saudi ships in the Red Sea on Monday. Saudi Arabia did not immediately comment. CNN cannot yet independently verify those claims.
Well, seven decades after the Clipper Endeavor vanished, the plane was finally found in waters off the coast of Puerto Rico. We'll explain exactly
what it took to find it so deep.
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[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: 74 years ago, a Pan Am flight crashed in the waters off of Puerto Rico, a disaster that would change the future of airline safety. Now the
resting place of the Clipper Endeavor has finally been found. Search teams using sonar and an underwater drone located the wreckage off Puerto Rico's
northern coast. There are some images there. Our Tom Foreman has details on the discovery and how that crash made modern air travel safer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Look at that.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the search team, the discovery of the lost Pan Am plane is a sensation. After 74 years in the
sand and salt water, many thought this Douglas DC-4 would never be seen again. But there it is, ghostly images of the aluminum body, the wings,
even the logo, found after years of tireless work by the Air Sea Heritage Foundation, the Discovery Channel, and Deep Sea Vision, which brought a
highly advanced underwater drone.
JOSH GATES, HOST, "EXPEDITION UNKNOWN": And that sonar vehicle, which is autonomous, went down to almost 2,000 feet below the surface. When we first
saw the sonar imagery and saw the outline of that plane, it just took our breath away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fly first class or tourist on Pan Am's radar- equipped Super 7 Clippers.
FOREMAN (voice-over): In the decade after World War II, as civilian air traffic boomed, Pan Am was a global leader. The Clipper Endeavor promised a
then-quick eight-hour trip from Puerto Rico to New York City on Good Friday, 1952.
But shortly after takeoff, two of Endeavor's four engines failed, along with efforts to turn back. The old accident report says all aboard survived
the violent watery impact, but passengers were not told where life jackets were located or instructed in their use prior to ditching.
Confusion over life rafts and escape exits followed as the plane sank in three minutes. Seventeen people survived amid pitching seas and swirling
sharks. Fifty-two did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome aboard.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But the flight arguably has saved many, many lives since, because it directly led to the creation of regulations requiring
passenger safety briefings before every takeoff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locate the exit nearest to you.
FOREMAN (voice-over): A legacy for the living from dozens who were lost for so long and whose resting place now has been found.
GATES: This flight and this tragic accident really changed aviation, fundamentally changed it forever, and we're all safer because of this
accident. And so, I think we owe them a real debt of remembrance.
FOREMAN (on camera): Of course, Discovery and CNN are owned by the same company, and Discovery plans to have a special show about all of this later
in the year. What they do not plan to do is in any way disturb the wreckage or the remains of these folks who lost their lives so tragically so many
years ago.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, in Paris, a gallery at the Louvre Museum has reopened nine months after France's crown jewels were stolen in a remarkable heist. The
thieves were disguised as construction workers, you may remember. There have since been some arrests, but the jewels themselves have not been
recovered. Security at the museum is ramping up with the addition of new surveillance cameras.
And finally, tonight, attention world travelers, the most powerful passport around the world belongs to Singapore. The island nation tops Henley's
annual list of the most desirable passports. Passports ranked based on the number of destinations their holders can visit visa-free or visa on demand.
[18:55:00]
In case you were wondering, Afghanistan sits at the bottom of the list. Afghan passport holders only have easy access to 22 other countries versus
192 for Singapore.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciuto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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