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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Joins The Brief; Netanyahu Predicts Fall of Iranian Government; Anger After Israeli Settlers Attack Palestinian Family; U.S. Forces Exit Iraq; Cornell University Agrees to Independent Investigation Into Handling of Alleged Gang Rape. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 30, 2026 - 18:00 ET
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[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're
watching "The Brief."
This is a special edition of "The Brief." In a moment, I'll be joined by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. There is much to discuss.
We do begin with the remarkable escape for 174 passengers and crew on board a Flydubai flight bound for Tel Aviv. During that flight, Israeli officials
say the co-pilot stabbed the pilot. The attacker was then subdued by a passenger, and the plane was then diverted to Saudi Arabia, where it landed
safely.
Israel is calling the incident, quote, an attempted terrorist attack against Israelis and the UAE. During that altercation, the plane began a
steep dive, faster than an emergency descent. After the injured pilot opened the cockpit door, one passenger is credited with putting the
attacker in a chokehold, dragging him away, and then pulling back on the controls. A second crew on board then diverted the jet to Saudi Arabia.
The passenger, named Hayoun, still had blood on his clothes, as you see there, when he was hugged by the Israeli prime minister at Ben-Gurion
Airport. When Mr. Netanyahu asked how he knew how to stabilize the plane, Yaniv told him he had watched the TV series, "Air Crash Investigation."
Mr. Netanyahu identified the stabbed pilot as Smit Machchhar from India, and said that he demonstrated extraordinary bravery. In Israel, passengers
arrived to cheers from friends, families, family members and well-wishers. One woman described the harrowing scene she witnessed on board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKA BAUMAN, FLYDUBAI PASSENGER: We just felt the plane drop completely and start spinning a little, and everyone was screaming, there were
children crying, and it was just like a death in front of our eyes moment. Like, I was just sure I was going to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just awful to imagine. Joining me now is the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Thanks so much for taking the time.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, as you know, Israeli officials are calling this an attempted terror attack. The defense minister used the term jihadist attack. What
have you learned so far about the pilot's planning, motive, and any associations?
NETANYAHU: What we know is in Omani National, we do know that the plane was approaching Israel itself, and that there were shouts and screams from
the cockpit. One of the passengers, an Israeli citizen, he's a plumber actually, was sitting I think in the back row, row 16 or 18, rushed to the
cockpit, which was blocked, and couldn't penetrate the door.
Apparently, the pilot, the co-pilot who was stabbed, an Indian pilot, showed incredible heroism because bleeding profusely, he somehow managed to
unlock the door. The Israeli passenger burst in, saw the attacking co-pilot hover over the instruments. He wasn't sitting in one of the two pilot
seats, but he was trying to jam the instruments.
The Israeli passenger, Yaniv, took him back, threw him back, took the controls, the stick, and pulled it back. And then another Israeli, and I
think another air crew member, they got control over the attacker, and then the reserve pilots who were in the passenger area came in, stabilized the
airplane. It was difficult because it was in a nosedive, it was just dropping, nose down, and they managed to stabilize the plane. It had a
rudder damaged and the tail was damaged, but they somehow managed to do it.
So, the amazing heroism here of the Indian pilot, the Israeli passenger, and his colleagues, and those pilots managed to prevent a 9/11 disaster
because that's what it looks like was happening. As far as the specific motivations of this -- it's a remark.
[18:05:00]
I'll tell you, Jim, I was in a special unit. I myself was wounded rescuing a hostage, or rather a hijacked Sabina airplane from Palestinian
terrorists. But I'll tell you, and my brother was killed leading the rescue party and the historic Entebbe rescue, but I'll tell you, to see something
like that, to see this amazing coolness of judgment and courage is an unbelievable act of heroism that saved the day.
SCIUTTO: You warned yesterday that enemies were going to attack Israel ahead of the elections. Did you have any warning or intelligence about an
attack such as this one?
NETANYAHU: No, not specifically. What we had is a lot of information streaming in that Iran's proxies, in particular, Hezbollah and Hamas, were
planning attacks against Israel and Israeli civilians abroad. But I can't tell you that we had any specific warning about this.
This is being interrogated right now. The pilot, the attacking pilot, is now being interrogated in Saudi Arabia. I assume very soon he'll be taken
to the United Arab Emirates. I spoke to the president of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed, and he agreed that Israel would join
the interrogation. So, we'll find out very soon if Iran had anything to do with it. But I can't say that in advance of the conclusion of the
interrogation.
SCIUTTO: Saudi, of course, Saudi authorities will be involved in the investigation as well. Will Israel cooperate with the Saudi investigation?
And is Saudi Arabia offering your participation?
NETANYAHU: Well, I spoke to, again, to President bin Zayed of the United Arab Emirates, and he agreed immediately that we should join the
investigation and we'll find out. Look, we know that Iran is sponsoring a lot of this, but I can't speak specifically of this. I can say that they
did stand behind the attack in Britain. We passed that information to the Brits. By the way, didn't prevent them a few days later to sanction Israel.
It's just incredible. I mean, the cynicism and the hypocrisy here is unbelievable.
SCIUTTO: Speaking of Iran, CNN, of course, is reporting that during your visit to the UAA this past weekend, you discussed Iran, specifically
Iranian activity around Pickax Mountain and its nuclear ambitions. Does Israel have new intelligence that Iran is rebuilding or attempting to
rebuild nuclear facilities?
NETANYAHU: No, it will if it can. But I think President Trump's actions, the blockade, is very effective in crippling this regime. And obviously,
yes, they will try to resuscitate their nuclear program. And it's something that we're obviously tracking all the time.
SCIUTTO: And if you see evidence of that, will you and have you discussed with President Trump resuming military strikes then against Israeli --
sorry, Iranian nuclear facilities?
NETANYAHU: No, I spoke to the president today and basically was talking about this amazing, amazing act of heroism that saved a disaster that would
have been not only a disaster for Israel, but you can imagine how it could affect the global aviation. So, we discussed that.
And he was very appreciative of the fact that this this guy who's a plumber, you know, I met him at the airport. He was drenched with blood
that of the Indian pilot. He took off his shoes and they were drenched with the blood of this brave Indian pilot. And but he showed this. I asked him,
what do you do for a living? He said, well, I'm a plumber and I unclog sewage clogs. And I said, you really unclog the big one today.
And he did something that not only saved 174 passengers, but I think he just stiffened the spine of everyone to see that you can fight this
horrific violence and come out winning. And, you know, I don't know if you remember this, Jim, but the first casualty of 9/11 was an Israeli-American,
a brilliant 30-year-old entrepreneur who founded Ackerman. His name is Daniel Lewin. He was also an officer in my unit in the Special Commander
Unit. And he sat in that plane that was bound for the World Trade Center. And he lunged at one of the attackers, stabbed from behind. So, he was the
first casualty.
Another Jewish-American, his name is Jeremy Glick. He was on the plane bound for the White House. And he and fellow Americans assaulted those
hijackers. And that's why the plane crashed in Pennsylvania. So, there's a record of heroism there. And I can say that this time, what distinguishes
this incident from the other tragic attacks was that this time the good guys won.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes, it did have echoes of Flight 93, certainly. About the Iran war, because you mentioned President Trump's approach, he has said
repeatedly that Iranian leaders do want to negotiate and do want a deal to end the war. I wonder if you share that view.
NETANYAHU: Well, you know, I leave that to President Trump, but I think that his goal is our goal, and the goal is to prevent Iran from having
nuclear weapons, because you can imagine that if Iran is doing what it's doing now, choking the waterways, the energy supply, the economies of the
world, imagine what they would do if they had nuclear weapons. And remember, they chant death to Israel, death to America, but they call us
the little Satan and America the big Satan, and ultimately what they want is you. They're going after America. I think it's a lunatic regime, and it
should not have nuclear weapons. That's clear.
And President Trump, I think, has been very successful with the blockade. It's really crippling the IRGC economy, this terrorist dictatorship, and
it's really reeling from this economic blockade, and I'm sure the President will continue with it.
SCIUTTO: I know President Trump has said he will never allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon, but I was in Israel in the early days of this war, and
Israeli officials told me repeatedly that the war's objectives would not be complete unless Iran's highly enriched uranium, hundreds of kilograms of
it, was secured or confiscated. That hasn't happened yet, and there is, it appears to be activity at nuclear facilities there. Has the war failed to
achieve Israel's objectives?
NETANYAHU: Well, I think, first of all, it achieved a great objective. There are the verge of manufacturing nuclear weapons, atomic bombs, and if
we hadn't acted, they'd have them already, and they probably would have used them, and that would have changed history.
SCIUTTO: What do you base that on, though? Because that statement is something you and the president have both said, that if the war hadn't
happened, they would have had the bomb and used it. What intelligence assessment do you base that on?
NETANYAHU: It's not intelligence assessment. It's intelligence. We had it very clear. That's why we had to act, and we embarked on this in order to
prevent them. Now, you know, it's like having cancer. You know, you have a big lump of cancer, and you know one thing. If you don't remove it, then
you're going to die. But it doesn't mean that the cancer can't come back.
So, we have to be on constant alert, and the president's goal, which is our goal in doing what he's doing, the blockade is to make sure that Iran is
under the pressure to relinquish that enriched material and not be able to manufacture a nuclear bomb.
SCIUTTO: As you know, I don't have to tell you, if your election's coming up later next month, you are aware of reports, recent reports, that Egypt
and the UAE warned you prior to the October 7th attacks. Do you take any personal responsibility for not doing enough to prevent them?
NETANYAHU: Well, first of all, those reports are false. They didn't give me any such warnings. That's completely false. And it's obvious, you know,
there are elements, both in our neighboring countries and also political opponents who are putting forth these lies.
In fact, we didn't have -- I didn't receive such warnings, but the more important thing is that we -- I would say we recovered so quickly after
this monstrous attack on October 7th that for Israel, you know, to kill 1,200 Israelis in one day is equivalent to murdering 40,000 Americans in
one day. And that's a big, big hit. But we recovered very quickly, pushed back these Hamas monsters, and obviously we're absolutely committed to
making sure this never happens again.
Gaza has to be -- or rather Hamas has to be disarmed, Gaza has to be demilitarized, and of course Gaza has to be de-radicalized from this insane
lunacy that these fanatics propagate.
SCIUTTO: I was in Israel soon after the October 7th attacks. I talked to victims. I talked to a father who lost his daughter in the South. And as
you know, it's not just foreign actors or officials who are assigning blame to you. You have Israeli officials. You have a military officer who said
they sent letters in advance warning of a major attack. You have Ronen Bar saying he warned you of an impending disaster.
I suppose I'm just asking you, is there anything you wish you had done prior to prevent or to respond more quickly to those attacks?
NETANYAHU: Well, I think we all recognize that there was no solid intelligence assessment. In fact, intelligence assessments were the exact
opposite, including days before the attack, days before the attack.
[18:15:00]
I mean, we had security meetings and basically people were saying Hamas is deterred. Hamas just wants, you know, economic benefits and so on. So,
clearly, we were all blindsided by this. But I think that the important thing is, what do you do when that happens? What do you do when you have a
9/11? What do you do when you have a Pearl Harbor? You don't just ask, oh, how come we didn't see it? We do ask that question. And we're going to come
to the bottom of it, obviously, with a proper investigative effort.
But I think the real question is, OK, then what do you do? What did you do after Pearl Harbor? What did you do after 9/11? You went after the bad
guys. And that's what we did. And the important thing is, it's a network, really. It's a network of Iran that pushed, that created these terrorist
fortresses right next to our border, spitting distance from Tel Aviv with Hamas, spitting distance from the north of Israel with Hezbollah. And we
pushed them back, really hammered them very hard.
You remember the beepers and other things that we did, making sure they cannot invade our country again, and doing all the things that we can to
prevent Iran, the head of the octopus, of this toxic octopus, from having nuclear weapons. That's been our goal. And I think much of it has been
achieved. But there's still work to do. You're quite right.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, you're aware of the situation in the West Bank. You have blamed a handful of settlers for carrying out attacks there. But
earlier this week, on a single day, 100 settlers took part, attacked even Israeli security forces as they were responding there. Has your government
lost control of settler violence?
NETANYAHU: Well, the settler violence thing is a tremendous hoax, not because there isn't settler -- it's not settlers, actually, it's about 150,
200 juvenile delinquents who are doing this. And I can't stomach that. I won't -- I can't accept vigilante who are a country of laws. So, I put the
Shin Bet, our security services, against them.
But I want to give this a proportion, because people create a symmetry between the acts of these people, who what they do is cut down olive trees,
they throw stones. And in one or two cases, they also claim the lives of Palestinians. But let me tell you what's happening --
SCIUTTO: Well, there have been 1,600 settler attacks this year, 1,600 just this year.
NETANYAHU: Well, actually, if you look at the actual numbers, not settler attacks, be clear, attempts to take lives. So, in 2025, there were 1,400,
1,400 lethal attacks and lethal attempts against Jews. I got the numbers here. You have to hear it, because here's the facts. 717 planned shootings,
630 explosive device attacks, attempted stabbings, car ramming, suicide attacks, and kidnappings, OK? That's the -- in that year, 25 Israelis were
killed, two Palestinians were killed in the kind of attacks that you're talking about.
In recent days, you've just seen the son of our ambassador to Washington, Ambassador Leiter, he was rammed, car ramming, basically, you know, he's
fighting for his life. A day before -- and he's a father of four. A day before that, a father of six, an Israeli French citizen, was stabbed to
death, was killed by this horrible attack. So, these attacks occurred daily.
And to compare the thousands and thousands of lethal attacks by these terrorists, Hamas-sponsored and others, against Israeli civilians,
families, mothers, pregnant mothers with their children, to compare that to what these juvenile delinquents are doing, to create that -- to create a
symmetry of that is a hoax. It's one of the big lies.
I'm not saying that these things don't happen, but to put them on the same level, where you have thousands of attacks, thousands between 2025 and
2026, lethal attacks to these juvenile delinquents, is just -- it's just the false symmetry that propagates this anti-Israel propaganda. Look, we're
fighting the battle against the barbarians. These people are barbarians.
SCIUTTO: And I'm not going to take issue with responding to terrorism. I'm just saying you have members of your own government who've encouraged these
kinds of things. And so, I'm asking, is it something that you, as prime minister, particularly as you're running, you know, to stay in power, once
again, is this something that you will address?
NETANYAHU: I've already addressed it. I've condemned it, condemned these vigilante actions, because I can't tolerate vigilantes and I can't
tolerate, you know, uncontrolled violence or any kind of violence that is directed against civilians. That's not something we accept. But to compare
this is like to compare an olive to a toxic tree. You know, that's what it is.
[18:20:00]
And the proportions here are important. This is putting -- you know, just creating this false facade of the equivalence is wrong. We in Israel act
against these violators. In fact, the Palestinian Authority in Judea and Samaria, they are actually saying -- they actually congratulated the car
ramming that may claim the life of our ambassador's son and so many others. So, that -- there is an asymmetry here both in the degree of actions that
are taking place against us. And also, I think in the attempt, the Palestinian Authority actually pays the terrorists, they are pay for slay,
the more Jews you kill the more you get paid. You and your family in case you were killed as a terrorist.
So, there's just complete asymmetry here. And I think this is one of the things that has to be corrected. And so, I welcome the opportunity, Jim, to
state the truth.
SCIUTTO: Well, and listen, of course on today we see what may very well have been a terrorist attack as well. Before we go, as you know the Gaza
ceasefire largely still holding. However, the next phase of the Gaza peace plan, which arguably is the more complicated phase involving a whole host
of things including disarming Hamas, but it also calls for the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.
Will Israeli forces withdraw from Gaza? How much longer do you expect them to be there?
NETANYAHU: Well, I think we're in Gaza in order to make sure that Hamas that is still there, still calling for our destruction, annihilation, still
planning attacks that they're not able to carry out a repetition of this. And I think once they're disarmed and once Gaza is demilitarized and
obviously deradicalized that opens a different future for Gaza.
And the same thing is true of Lebanon. In Lebanon we would have made peace with Lebanon a long time ago. We're in discussions with the government of
Lebanon. And the problem there is that you have another Hamas there, it's called Hezbollah. And both of them are supported by Iran. And they also
basically seek our destruction. They openly say so. So, we're there at both in Lebanon in a security corridor and in Gaza in a security corridor and in
order to make sure that they can't do it.
Once these two malign forces, these terrorist monsters are defeated then I think a whole new opportunity for peace and for prosperity occurs in the
Middle East, both for us and for our neighbor.
SCIUTTO: One can hope certainly. Prime Minister Netanyahu, we appreciate you taking the time and joining the program.
NETANYAHU: Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we will be right back right after this with more coverage of that Flydubai attack.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Returning turning now to our top story, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told me just a short time ago, what he knows about the
midair stabbing on a passenger jet bound for Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: We do know that the plane was approaching Israel itself, and that there were shouts and screams from the cockpit. One of the passengers,
an Israeli citizen, he's a plumber actually, was sitting I think in the back row, or row 16 or 18, rushed to the cockpit, which was blocked, and
couldn't penetrate the door. Apparently, the pilot, the co-pilot who was stabbed, an Indian pilot, showed incredible heroism, because bleeding
profusely, he somehow managed to unlock the door.
The Israeli passenger burst in, saw the attacking co-pilot, hover over the instruments. He wasn't sitting in one of the two pilot seats, but he was
trying to jam the instruments. The Israeli passenger, Yaniv, took him back, threw him back, took the controls, the stick, and pulled it back. Then
another Israeli, and I think another air crew member, they got control over the attacker. Then the reserve pilots who were in the passenger area came
in, stabilized the airplane.
It was difficult, because it was in a nosedive. It was just dropping, nose down. They managed to stabilize the plane. It had a rudder damaged, and the
tail was damaged, but they somehow managed to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A remarkable tale, certainly, from inside that passenger jet. Joining me now is CNN aviation analyst Peter Goelz, former managing
director of the National Transportation Safety Board here in the U.S. Peter, good to have you on.
I mean, you must be watching this with your educated eye, with amazement. I mean, the first question I was going to ask you is, you've got a plumber
who goes into the cockpit. Beyond the act of bravery, right, subduing the attacker, stabilizing the plane, how hard is that to do?
PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It's extraordinarily hard to do, and it's a good story. And as the investigation goes on, the facts will come
out. And one of the things I want to point out is that this is going to be an extraordinarily complex investigation. You know, the aircraft itself is
in Israel. The incident took place over Saudi Arabia, and it is a fly-Dubai aircraft manufactured by the United States.
Under Annex 13, which governs these kinds of international incidents, Saudi Arabia has the responsibility to conduct the investigation. So, we'll see
where it's going to go.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Tell us about the history. And again, it's early. What we know to this point is alleged that the co-pilot attacked the
pilot and tried to take control of the plane. We don't know to do what, right? There are a number of possibilities. How often does that kind of
thing happen or something like that happened?
GOELZ: Well, it happens more often than you think. Since 1999, over 750 passengers and people on the ground have been killed by accidents caused by
pilot-induced actions. And if you include MH370, which is still up in the air and still a great mystery, that number climbs to almost 900. That's a
large number of passengers that have been killed. And it's an issue that the industry really is reluctant to address.
SCIUTTO: No question. I mean, is there -- again, each circumstance is different to some degree. I remember that German wings example, right,
which appeared to be a suicide. You know, the Israelis are saying this was terrorist. So, you don't. I mean, that if it's confirmed, you get two
different motivations there. Then you don't know what the target is. How do you screen for that kind of thing?
[18:30:00]
GOELZ: Well, it's very difficult. And in retrospect, in the German wings accident, there were, you know, there were tip offs that the co-pilot was
facing some problems in the Egypt air where 219 passengers were killed. The co-pilot who drove that aircraft into the ocean was facing disciplinary
problems and the end of his career. So, there are tip offs on occasion. But not always.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I covered that crash. I mean, the specific circumstances of this one are arguably unique to this case, because in this case, an Israeli
bound flight, they had extra pilots on board, right. Now, imagine the circumstances, co-pilot injures the pilot who seemed to be quite severely
injured, right. The options aren't that great because, yes, the plumber stabilized the plane, but he didn't land the plane.
GOELZ: No, that would have been a tremendously challenging situation. And that's one of the unintended consequences of 9/11 was that we moved quickly
to address the issue of folks getting into the cockpit. And then we created some unintended consequences, which is what happens if the threat is in the
cockpit already? Yes. And locked up inside it. How do you get at them? You can't. So, it's a very challenging issue and one that the I say that the
industry, the regulators and government need to really revisit, I think, on a serious basis.
SCIUTTO: Well, to your point, this one has a long way to go in the investigation as well. Peter Goelz, always good to have you on.
GOELZ: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still coming up on "The Brief," the U.S. has now completed its troop withdrawal from Iraq. The move ends more than 20 years of U.S.
military presence in the country. So, what does this mean for Iraq's security and the regions? That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
An investigation is underway after a pilot was stabbed on an Israel-bound flight. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told us a short time ago
the co-pilot aboard a Flydubai flight had attacked the pilot. The passenger is now out of harm's way. Netanyahu embraced one of those passengers who
said he managed to stabilize the plane himself.
The British prime minister says there are strong indications that Iran was involved in an alleged plot against an airbase in England. Andy Burnham
said his government is working closely with the U.S. and will say more in due course. Iran has denied involvement. Five men were arrested on
suspicion of terrorism, then later released on bail.
U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is trimming the top ranks of the military. He targeted 20 percent cut in the number of generals and flag
officers during a speech to junior officers. Hegseth says the Pentagon needs to streamline leadership. He also announced a new autonomous warfare
command.
The U.S. is completing its military withdrawal from Iraq after more than 20 years, with troops leaving their last remaining base in the Kurdistan
region's capital, Erbil. A Pentagon spokesperson says, quote, "This milestone reflects the success of a 12-year campaign that defeated ISIS as
an organized military threat in Iraq and across the region." President Trump called it a victory for both the U.S. and Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This is a great day for America, and importantly, we leave with Iraq. Having a wonderful new prime minister, Ali
al-Zaidi, fantastic guy, friend of mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This comes after the two nations agreed to a phased troop withdrawal back in 2024. Iraq's central government is marking the event
with a four-day holiday. The group in Baghdad is celebrating. You see a few Iraqi flags. Most belong to Hezbollah brigades. They're a Shia militia tied
to Iran.
Joining me now is CNN global affairs analyst Brett McGurk, former Middle East and North Africa coordinator for the White House National Security
Council. He's also the author of a new book, "Brink: Inside the Race to Free the October 7th Hostages."
Brett, it's good to have you, given your direct involvement in Iraq through the years. I do want to get to your book. Before I do, I just wonder, how
does this administration prevent this Iraq withdrawal from looking like the last one, when the U.S. got dragged back in? What are the guarantees that
doesn't happen again?
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST AND FORMER MIDDLE EAST COORDINATOR, WH NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Well, I think, Jim, it's great
to be here. It is good to reflect on what was the counter-ISIS mission. U.S. leadership, we built a coalition of 80 countries around the world
across three presidential administrations, both parties, and it was a success. It was a successful campaign. And so, I think we have to note
that. It's important to remember where we were 10 years ago.
At the same time, I'm a little uncomfortable because I have seen where we pull back. Unfortunately, those vacuums are filled by actors that
ultimately draw us back in. And I hope that's not the case here, but I'm concerned about it, and we'll have to see. I mean, this arrangement was
discussed in the last administration with Iraq before the October 7th attacks, before the whole region fundamentally changed. It was always based
on conditions, and whether those conditions have really been established to ensure that our complete withdrawal, including from the Kurdistan region,
cannot open up a vacuum as we saw before, I'm not really convinced of that.
So, let's see. I think it raises some risks. You just mentioned Kata'ib Hezbollah. They are Iran's marquee faction inside Iraq. They were supposed
to have disarmed. That was a policy of the Iraqi government. I think no surprise to anybody that has not happened. And they're now -- you know, I
think they're going to kind of spread their wings.
SCIUTTO: Yes. You know, as a practical matter, the argument is, and we saw a similar argument following the Afghanistan withdrawal, right, was that
the U.S. can respond to threats from inside the country from outside the country, right? If, for instance, there's another threat, they could do it
from abroad. In your experience, is that effective?
MCGURK: Having a presence, there's no replacement for having a presence on the ground.
[18:40:00]
I mean, having a presence with special forces and, again, I was in Iraq in 2014 when ISIS burst through Mosul and then coming down to Baghdad, a
desperate time. We almost evacuated our embassy, Jim, before we got some special forces into place to be able to have better situational awareness.
And I still to this day, I ask myself, had we had those forces present, given the situational awareness you have by having a small presence,
sustainable presence, not talking about U.S. forces in combat, it really draws down risk. If you pull back too much, and I've seen this before, and
I just hope this is not a repeat of the same movie, you end up getting drawn back in.
You know, back in 2021, we withdrew our military presence from the Middle East quite significantly, our naval presence, our air defense presence. We
wound up coming in even more. So, let's hope this is a milestone. The counter-ISIS campaign was successful. That's what it was all about. But
there are other actors here on the field, particularly given that we are in an ongoing conflict with Iran, and Iran has always seen Iraq, goes back to
the 1980s. They have always seen Iraq as kind of their main prize. So, the Iraqi government's got a lot of work to do.
SCIUTTO: I was going to ask you then, how does Iran read this withdrawal? Obviously, it's got a lot of its own problems right now, but does it view
it as an opportunity?
MCGURK: I think whoever is making decisions in Iran, probably Ahmad Vahidi, the head of the Revolutionary Guards, whether the supreme leader,
the new supreme leader is even alive, nobody really knows. But, yes, they will tell themselves that this shows that, you know, they -- time is on
their side. But I wouldn't -- you know, we'll see.
I mean, if you really went down to a -- got back into major combat operations against the Iranians, this is kind of getting on a war footing
because we wouldn't have troops in Iraq that they -- that the Iranians try to target. Even after October 7th, which is one of the topics of the book,
Jim, you know, these groups had stopped attacking us, and after October 7th, the attacks just massively escalated at the direction of Iran. So,
they used our presence as a vulnerability, and then we would have to take measures to deter.
Just to the key point, Jim, you asked, I think it's always better to have a sustainable U.S. -- small U.S. military presence. You can do a lot with
that. And now, we're out entirely.
SCIUTTO: Yes. That was always the debate about would it have made a difference in Afghanistan. So, to your new book, "Brink," which I should
note is releasing on October 6th, it's about, as we said, U.S. work to free the October 7th hostages, but also avoid a wider conflict in the Middle
East. You described there being a lack of a zone of possible agreement.
I wonder how you bridge those gaps now on the larger, more intractable issues in the next phase of the Gaza peace plan, like disarming Hamas, or
like, as I was asking the Israeli prime minister, the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. Can you find that zone of -- can they find that zone of
agreement?
MCGURK: Well, Jim, this book would come out -- it'll come out next week. It really brings readers inside the -- inside all the rooms, from the
situation room with 200 missiles in the air to the Oval Office to sitting with the Israeli prime minister to negotiating with Hamas downstairs,
Israel on another floor with intelligence chief and princes and everything. You really are in the room to understand what this is like.
And you mentioned ZOPA, Zone of Possible Agreement, to try as a mediator to bridge gaps and try to end a war and get hostages home. It's easy to say
you have to end the war. Hostages have to come out. How do you actually do that and use leverage and negotiation and power and influence to do that?
It's extremely hard, especially when, in a hostage negotiation -- because what's so perverse about a hostage negotiation is the hostage taker always
has a price. So, they say, you meet our price, you get the hostages. But often that price is so extortionist that no state can accept that I've
dealt with that in hostage negotiations with Iran.
And on Hamas, their core demand was always, we stay in power. After October 7th, we killed over 1,000 Israelis. We have the largest mass hostage crisis
in modern history. And the price is we're going to stay in power, permanent ceasefire. And that -- to try to bridge that when the Israeli government
and whether this government or another government, you've probably heard it from even those who are opposed to Prime Minister Netanyahu in their
upcoming elections, they will not accept Hamas remaining in power.
And that is now a demand of the entire International Community, backed by a U.N. Security Council resolution. And to have any hope in this most
polarizing, horrific, difficult issue, we do have to have Hamas relinquishing power in Gaza. There's now an interim transition in Gaza led
by Palestinian kind of independent officials. I've met with many of them. I think it's worth getting behind that process, because so long as Hamas is
clinging to power, there's just no way forward. And, of course, the Israelis will have a very important election. And we can be hopeful they
come up with a different configuration in their coalition government. So, a lot of pieces still have to -- still have to get in place.
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Wide open question. Brett McGurk. The book is "Brink."
MCGURK: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for joining.
MCGURK: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We do have this just in to CNN. Cornell University says it has agreed to an independent investigation now into its handling of an alleged
gang rape this back in 2024. The local district attorney has reopened the case and says he was initially not provided with the transcript of the
accuser's interview with police. The university student newspaper was the first to report on a civil lawsuit setting off a firestorm of anger on
campus.
Still coming up on "The Brief," we will have much more on the violent incident on a passenger jet bound for Israel. A remarkable escape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Flydubai flights to and from Israel will be temporarily suspended while an investigation into the apparent hijacking continues. That,
according to a spokesperson for the airline. The 737 plummeted thousands of meters after officials say the co-pilot stabbed the pilot. The flight had
to be diverted to Saudi Arabia after passengers helped subdue the attacker. Just a few minutes ago on this program, the pilot was shot in the head.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised their bravery. The passengers have now arrived safely in Israel.
Richard Quest joins me now. Richard, good to have you. I mean, first, I'm going to ask you, some of the news from the prime minister's interview with
us is that UAE has said, Israel, you're welcome to join the investigation. I suppose we still have to learn what Saudi Arabia's position is because it
took place over Saudi Arabia. They're involved as well. But that would presume to say you're on your way to some sort of multinational effort to
get to the bottom of this.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: There are numerous investigations that will take place. There's criminal. There will be air
accident investigation because the plane was damaged and the rudder was ripped off and it was nearly a crash situation. So, there will be lots of
investigations.
And I think what I heard from the prime minister in that excellent interview that you did with him, Jim, was that they are absolutely
determined to cooperate as best they can and to show a united front. Because it's also important to bear in mind that Emirates, Flydubai, these
are three major carriers that are not quite the only.
[18:50:00]
Obviously, there's El Al, but they form Emirates, Flydubai. These are three major carriers that are not quite the only -- obviously, there's El Al, but
they form an important part now of Israel's aviation infrastructure. So, they most certainly are going to want to get to the bottom of what happened
here, ensure that it can't and doesn't happen again, and at the same time, maintain good relations with, of course, almost their new best friends in
the region.
SCIUTTO: I have to ask you, Richard, because you know aviation well. When I look at that plane on the ground with that damaged tail, when I hear the
tale of the pilot and the co-pilot incapacitated and a passenger who's a plumber stabilizing the plane, I mean, it's a remarkable escape, isn't it?
QUEST: The prime minister was right. This is absolutely unbelievable, miraculous. Choose your adjective. Look, the fact is, this could have and
very, very, very nearly did end extremely badly. It was because the captain, according to the prime minister, managed to open the cockpit door.
If he had not, and if the co-pilot had managed to lock it, then we would have been in a German wings situation, managed to crash the plane. So,
let's not underestimate.
And then, of course, you have the fact that this plane, which had been in a very steep descent, that, you know, if it had gone much further, it would
have been very difficult to have pulled it out of that descent without structurally damaging the plane even further.
So, there were -- you know, the Swiss cheese, the holes in the Swiss cheese theory about how they've all got to marry up before either you have total
success or total failure. Here they were lucky. Everything married up as it needed to for a successful conclusion. But the range of options and the
narrow line to failure here was enormous.
SCIUTTO: No question. No question. Just remarkable. Richard Quest, I bet you've never seen one like that. Thanks so much for joining.
QUEST: Absolutely.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: More now on our breaking news. New details emerging about the mid-flight stabbing on a Flydubai plane, traveling from Dubai to Tel Aviv.
Passengers have now safely arrived in Israel. You see them there. Their flight plummeted thousands of feet after an altercation in the cockpit. The
plane then had to be diverted to Saudi Arabia. The Israeli prime minister, who I spoke to at the top of the hour, says the co-pilot tried to crash the
plane after stabbing the pilot.
Earlier, Netanyahu greeted a passenger, who says he put the alleged assailant in a chokehold before then grabbing the controls in the cockpit
to stabilize the plane.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YANIV HAYOUN, FLYDUBAI PASSENGER (through translator): Mr. Prime Minister, I apologize in advance. I asked ten times for my luggage so I could change
clothes for this meeting.
NETANYAHU (through translator): This is the honor, you are the honor. You are the hero. How did you do it? It's amazing.
[18:55:00]
HAYOUN (through translator): We are a nation of lions, aren't we?
NETANYAHU (through translator): A lion-like people?
HAYOUN (through translator): Absolutely.
NETANYAHU (through translator): I watch you a lot. You know when I watch you, thank you, I see a lion. I see a great hero. Wow.
HAYOUN (through translator): Is this him?
NETANYAHU (through translator): Yes, that's him.
HAYOUN (through translator): Unfortunately, we couldn't revive him. I think it will take him some time to recover.
NETANYAHU (through translator): Listen, you're amazing.
HAYOUN (through translator): Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The Israeli prime minister with the man credited with stabilizing that flight. Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Sciutto in
Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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