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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Trump: Russia Agrees To Supply Diesel To U.S. And Global Markets; Former ICC Judge Navi Pillay Wins Nobel Peace Prize; Powerful Earthquake Rocks Panama; U.S. Gulf Coast Braces For Category 3 Hurricane; Hurricane Isaias Threatens U.S. Oil Production; Trump Launches New Effort To Oust Fed Governor Lisa Cook; DHS Chief, NYC Mayor Battle Over ICE Shooting. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 09, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in
Washington, and you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, President Donald Trump says Vladimir Putin has agreed to sell Russian diesel to global markets. The U.S. is easing sanctions to
allow that to happen. We'll get a reaction from Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks. Plus, a powerful earthquake rocks Panama. The extent of the
damage is only beginning to come to light. We will have a live report. And a former judge at the International Criminal Court wins this year's Nobel
Peace Prize. Not everyone's celebrating. We'll tell you why.
The U.S. and Russian presidents are trading gifts ahead of the U.S. midterms amid soaring fuel prices. Russia will supply diesel to the U.S.
and other countries, and to make that happen, the Trump administration is easing sanctions on Russia. The president spoke about this just moments
ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think you heard about the oil deal with Russia. That is a big deal. That is massive amounts of oil coming into our
country, and I want to thank President Putin, to be honest with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Of course, Putin is selling that diesel and making money from it. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is criticizing the deal. He
calls it an investment in Russia's war. It comes as a Ukrainian delegation is in Miami to meet U.S. envoys Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. Ukraine
reeling after some of Russia's worst strikes all year. The attacks killed dozens of Ukrainian civilians just this week.
Joining me now, U.S. Congressman Gregory Meeks. He is the top Democrat on the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for
taking the time.
Good to be with you. So, President Zelenskyy's view of this deal is quite clear. He calls this, quote, "additional money for this war." In other
words, the U.S. president giving the Russian president an ability to sell diesel, and therefore, make money. Do you agree?
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Absolutely, 100 percent. Look, this is a betrayal to Ukraine, to our European allies, and it's the very -- this
comes right after there was a bill that was passed in the House that allegedly was going to sanction Russia, which I vehemently oppose because I
knew that there were ways that Trump would try to get around sanctioning Russia. We would never trade sanction Russia.
And so, here we go, whereas you're supposed to be putting sanctions on some of our friends and allies who was buying oil from Russia, and here we do
wave those sanctions and give Russia the dollars that it wants so that it can continue to get the weapons, et cetera, that it's using to brutalize
and kill Ukrainians. It's a disgrace, and I am going to continue to fight the push in this budget.
What we should be doing in the United States of America is giving Ukraine more help. We should be giving them, as I tried to put an amendment in a
bill that we put forward, giving Ukraine $15 billion, giving them ATACMS and what they need to defend themselves, especially during these winter
times when Russia is increasing its attack on Ukraine. It's absurd what this president is doing.
SCIUTTO: Where does this leave these talks in Florida right now? I mean, clearly the Ukrainian president feels that this was happening above his
head and above the head of his negotiators there who were, they say, making a good effort to try to reach a ceasefire.
MEEKS: But here we go again. Look, each time that either Witkoff or Witkoff along with Jared Kushner has gone to Russia to speak with Putin what
results? Another attack on Ukraine. And so, it is futile for, I understand, for President Zelenskyy, who when he came to the United States, he thought
that there was a deal. He thought that the president signing this bill saying that they was going to increase sanctions on Russia would actually
cause some pain to Russia.
Unfortunately, I knew that would not happen. That was my argument all along to be against the bill, that if we want to send a message to Putin, we need
to send a message that by giving the Ukrainians what it needs, to see that the president of the United States also said that he's going to bring the
Russian foreign minister to the United States to attend the G20 meeting, as he did with the G20 finance meeting, bringing the Russian finance minister,
it is clear to me that Donald Trump is in cahoots with Vladimir Putin.
[18:05:00]
And that he's talking about now, because of his fail -- this is what Trump is doing, his failed war that he initiated in Iran, that's causing
Americans to have to pay substantially more money for diesel fuel and gasoline. He's trying to fix it by giving money to Russia so that they can
continue to bomb Ukraine.
It just does not make any sense. And the Americans should not stand for it. And Congress needs to stand up against Donald Trump now. And we should make
sure that we're putting forward a bill that really helps Ukraine, and not a bill that the president just wanted to utilize to seemingly, as he's doing,
to help Russia and not Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: If Democrats win back the House, and perhaps the Senate, will you attempt to force the president's hand?
MEEKS: One hundred percent. I don't want to wait till we win back the House. I want to do it now, as soon as we get back on November the 8th.
Ukrainians are suffering right now. They need help right now. We can do something by putting some money in a supplemental, because we still have to
deal with the budget. We need to do something as soon as we get back, and then send it to the president in a bipartisan, bicameral way, and demand
that he signs that bill to give the Ukrainians what they need. We cannot just sit back and allow him to allow Putin to continue his brutal war on
the Ukrainians.
SCIUTTO: You are the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Where does this leave American credibility, in Ukraine, in Europe, and the
world, for the U.S. president to, I want to say, barely utter a word of criticism for continuing Russian attacks on civilians, but to give the
Russian president, in effect, money, now cash, to continue to wage this war? Where does it leave American credibility?
MEEKS: We don't have any. You know, as I travel and talk to world leaders right now, they all are looking, unfortunately, for alternatives to
America, because they feel that they can't trust America or depend upon America now. We've got a lot of work to do, and that's why this election is
really important in the United States, because one of the things that I will do as the chair of the committee is to go back to show our allies that
we know that they're our allies, and we're going to work with them, because what this president has done is treated our allies like they're our
adversaries.
You know who also likes this deal that he just made with Russia? China likes this deal. North Korea likes this deal. Iran likes this deal. All of
our adversaries like this deal. All of our allies do not. And so, we need a voice from the United States Congress to show where the majority of
Americans and the majority of the members of the House of Representatives really stand. And you will see, once we take over control of the House
again, I will be putting forward a number of bells to show that.
In fact, I had promised President Zelenskyy and other Ukrainian friends that once I become the chair of the committee, the very first trip that I
will take is to Ukraine with a bipartisan delegation to state clearly where the United States is in regards to Russia and its aggression and its war
against Ukraine.
The other thing that we've got to do, Jim, is to take back a lot of our power, and especially the power of the purse, to tell the president that if
he does not do as Congress has directed, then we're going to be looking at the power of the purse and not giving him the resources or money for the
other things that he's been trying to get done here.
So, yes, we have some power, and we will utilize that power once we take over the House and not allow Donald Trump to be the de facto speaker of the
House as he has been while Speaker Johnson is there.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Meeks, we appreciate you joining the program.
MEEKS: Thank you for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, as it is relieving sanctions on Russia, the Trump administration slapped new sanctions on the International Criminal Court
hours after a former ICC judge received the Nobel Peace Prize.
[18:10:00]
The Nobel Committee says it honored Navi Pillay for her exceptional courage and integrity. Here's CNN's Nada Bashir.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Human rights pioneer Dr. Navi Pillay has been awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize, a South African anti-apartheid
lawyer turned international jurist who, in the words of the Nobel Committee, has been instrumental in ensuring that war crimes, crimes
against humanity and genocide are prosecuted.
Pillay first learned of her win while attending an event at the courts that hosted the Nuremberg trials 80 years ago. Her initial response to the news
was simply, is it true? She later quipped, if you clap a little bit more, I may share this prize with Trump.
Pillay has served as a judge on the world's most important courts of international law, including the International Criminal Court, the
International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and the International Court of Justice, as well as serving as the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights
between 2008 and 2014. She also recently led the U.N. commission that concluded Israel committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, which
Israel denies.
In response to Pillay's win, U.N. Human Rights Chief Volker Turk said her award marks a collective win for human rights, but also for seeking justice
and accountability in this world. The president of the International Criminal Court, meanwhile, said the 2026 Peace Prize presents an important
recognition of the vital role that international justice plays as a cornerstone of lasting peace.
In recent months, core institutions upholding international law have come under increased pressure. The chair of the Norwegian Nobel Committee
characterized this year's award as a reminder to the world that, quote, "operating without the rule of law is unjust, unwise and inhumane."
Nada Bashir, CNN in London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: The U.S., of course, is not a member of the ICC. In 2024, Washington slammed the court for issuing an arrest warrant for Israeli
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, which accused him of war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza. And a few years before that, the ICC
announced an investigation into alleged crimes against humanity and war crimes committed in Afghanistan by U.S. armed forces and the CIA.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said, quote, "President Trump will never allow the International Criminal Court to prosecute Americans. That
is why today the U.S. is sanctioning the court. We will ban transactions with this rogue court cutting off their resources and crippling its ability
to operate," end quote.
Another story we've been following, a powerful earthquake has struck Panama. The 7.7 magnitude earthquake, that's big, hit near the southern
coast of the country, this according to the U.S. geological survey. This video shows damaged buildings in an area some 70 miles from the epicenter.
Panama City's public transit system has suspended service on two metro lines.
Authorities say, however, vessel passage was not interrupted in the Panama Canal. This is, of course, the latest earthquake to strike Latin America
this year. Venezuela hit by two devastating quakes in June, which killed more than 6,400 people. Colombia also suffered a major quake in August.
CNN photojournalist Carlos Martinelli joins me now by phone from Panama. And, Carlos, I understand you were in a car as this quake struck. Can you
describe what it felt like and how powerful it was?
CARLOS MARTINELLI, CNN PHOTOJOURNALIST: Hi, good afternoon, Jim. Yes, I was driving with my dad roughly in an area called Amador, which used to be a
fort for the American forces while they were down here in Panama. Yes, it actually felt like my -- I had two flat tires on the car because they were
shaking from side to side.
It was -- my dad actually thought that when people started running out of businesses that they were shooting or something. But, you know, I stopped
the car. I got out thinking that, again, I had a flat tire, but obviously it was not bad. We kind of immediately found out that it was an earthquake
that had hit. I mean, it was very sudden.
We ended up headed back into the city. Right now, we're stuck in gridlock. Pretty much everybody has left the building. They pretty much told
everybody to go home. Unfortunately, everybody has a car here in Panama, so it's gridlock. We've been stuck here for about roughly about an hour and a
half trying to move about maybe three miles. And the local government has kind of told people to not go back into the building for fear that maybe
another big one might hit.
[18:15:00]
There's been roughly about 92 aftershocks as we were driving back into the city. My dad and I also experienced another aftershock and that one was
mild. It was about maybe 30 seconds. But, you know, you never know when another one can actually hit.
SCIUTTO: Of course. Well, first of all, I want to say to you and your father, please stay safe. As you have been driving around or given the
restrictions on driving around, but what you've been able to see, what level of destruction and are you seeing a coordinated emergency response?
MARTINELLI: So, Panama as a city is very -- it's been -- it's built very well. I've lived here, when -- I left when I was 21, I'm 50. And this city,
I've never actually experienced a single earthquake while I was here. I've always heard earthquakes hit, but I've never actually experienced one.
I have seen videos of roughly right now of the Pan American Highway, which is a town headed towards Tonosi, which is where the epicenter of the quake
hit. There are other towns called Chifre, Las Tablas, and (INAUDIBLE) which are all on the way to Tonosi, where I've seen a lot of buildings collapse
on top of cars. I saw a video of a guy essentially yelling at inside a house to see if maybe there's any survivors in there or if there were
people inside. Hopefully there weren't.
But the Pan American Highway has been ruptured in many locations. So, if the actual government in Panama is sending help, it's going to take some
time for officials to actually get there. It is about a five-hour drive, even though it is a two-lane highway, most of the way there.
So, currently right now in the city, pretty much everybody is walking home. Nobody is taking public transportation because, as you mentioned, the metro
has been shut down. Buses are non-existent right now. The traffic right now is everybody that has a car is shutting down the entire roads because this
is red locked. You move a little bit and then that's it. You move maybe a half a car's length and that's it because Panama is just known for its
traffic, unfortunately, and everybody was let out at the same time.
SCIUTTO: Well, Carlos, please stay safe, particularly as those aftershocks come, and we'll continue to stay in touch as we watch developments there in
Panama.
Well, now to a powerful hurricane that is heading straight for the Florida Panhandle. Isaias is expected to make landfall very soon. It is currently a
Category 3 storm. The storms surge already starting along the U.S. Gulf Coast from southern Louisiana all the way over to the Florida Panhandle.
Our Isabel Rosales is live in Gulf Shores, Alabama. And Isabel, we saw you there yesterday before the storm was close and now, of course, it's getting
closer. What are you seeing and what are the dangers?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, yes, looking a lot different today because when I was talking to you, there were still people out there
enjoying what little bit of beach time they could get before Isaias' outer bands came through. Well, it's a serious business now and, in fact, the
City of Gulf Shores is saying the time for preparation is over. It's closed. They want folks to hanker down to weather out the storm and to
certainly not be out on these roads.
We're experiencing, you're talking about the dangers, what are the dangers? Certainly, storm surge. They're expecting here six feet of storm surge in
the Gulf Shores area. There's other areas anticipating up to nine feet of storm surge. But where I'm sitting right now, it's this wind, these
tropical force gusts here reaching 56 miles per hour.
I was speaking to our meteorologist at CNN and that's only going to get worse before landfall here in the incoming hours. 60, 70, topping out at 80
mile per hour wind gusts. This sort of wind that you're seeing as we zoom in on this sawgrass, this wind is enough to topple down trees, to cause
power outages and, in fact, right now in the state of Alabama, 30 plus thousand customers without power. That is going to get worse.
The city says they're anticipating widespread power outages and the city's also responding in different ways. They have instituted a curfew here, Jim,
that's set to start here in about two hours at 7:00 p.m. local time, meaning nobody should be out on the roads. They want that cleared for
emergency crews, although there will be a point where even they will be pulled back because the winds are too dangerous. Roads are impassable. They
won't be able to answer emergency calls.
[18:20:00]
This wind, by the way, speaking of storm surge, the way it's coming in northeast is actually pushing the water back. That's preventing the storm
surge from coming onshore as badly as it normally will. But once that eye wall passes us here, the winds will shift in direction, meaning probably
timing out right at high tide here in Gulf Shores, that water will start to come inland. And that makes for a very dangerous situation.
The good news, though, Jim, people are taking it seriously. This is a ghost town. I'm not seeing them out and about in the streets. And that's the
important part. Just wait this out.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, it's almost oddly beautiful, right, in the midst of all that danger. But please keep yourself and your team safe. And
we'll continue to check in with you. Our Isabel Rosales there on Gulf Shores in Gulf Shores, Alabama.
Still ahead, the Trump administration has announced an unprecedented move in its efforts to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook. The White House appointing a
committee filled with handpicked appointees to investigate her case. We'll have details after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout now, Wall Street wrapping up the trading week with across-the-board gains. Tech stocks
bounced back after a 1.25 percent sell-off Thursday. Oil posted modest gains as traders monitor the major Category 3 hurricane. Now, heading
towards the Gulf Coast. Landfall expected soon, as we just reported. Major oil firms have shut down operations on the Gulf because of that approaching
storm. The U.S. government says 72 percent of the region's daily oil output and 59 percent of its natural gas production are affected. It could take
time to restart production if the storm causes damage.
President Trump is now ordering a new investigation into unproven mortgage fraud allegations against Fed Governor Lisa Cook. Trump announced a hand-
picked committee to study the matter. It was just the latest effort by the Trump administration to fire Cook. An attempt to dismiss her without any
process was blocked by the Supreme Court back in June.
Kevin Liptak joins me now. And, Kevin, Supreme Court was meant to be the final word on this. Clearly the Trump administration not accepting that.
Tell us what this board is trying to do and what, crucially, what power it has, if any.
[18:25:00]
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. And what the board is trying to do is to create the process that the Supreme Court said did not
exist when President Trump last tried to fire Lisa Cook. They seem to have taken that ruling and created this three-person board comprised entirely of
White House officials to create that level of process to try and get, I guess, on the court's good side in order to fire her again and to have it
stick this time.
Now, what powers this board has seems to be entirely created by the president himself. These are his own hand-selected officials, including
people who are very close to him, like Kevin Hassett, the top economist here at the White House. They say that they will hold a hearing with Lisa
Cook on November 5th. They will give her time to present a written argument to them. Before that date, she will be able to follow up in writing.
After that date, she will be able to have her lawyers in place while the hearing is underway. Then the board would provide a recommendation to the
president about whether she can be terminated. Now, this all, remember, stems from the White House allegation that she committed mortgage fraud
when she was purchasing a condo in Atlanta.
She said that that was her primary residence, despite mainly living at her house in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Lisa Cook and her lawyers have said that that
was an inadvertent mistake, essentially a clerical error. And they've pointed out that a number of other administration officials, including
Trump appointees, had made similar denotations in their own mortgage paperwork, I guess alleging that this has been something that's commonly
done.
Now, what happens after this hearing, we don't know. It seems likely, if we're going to predict, given the president's desire to see her off of the
Fed board, that he will try and fire her again. But her lawyers have suggested that they, quote, "have grave doubts" that this hearing is a
legitimate one that would conform to the law.
And they're saying that if anything close, if it is anything close to objective, the conclusion will be that Governor Cook did not commit
mortgage fraud, leaving no cause to remove her from the Federal Reserve Board.
But clearly, President Trump not giving up on this attempt to see her gone. We'll have to see how it goes, I guess, next month, whether they actually
decide to try and fire her again.
SCIUTTO: And by the way, once again defying the courts, Kevin Liptak at the White House. Checking some of today's other business headlines, Delta
Airlines says it sees strong ticket demand continuing into next year, despite higher airfares. The company says in its latest earnings report
that fares are up 15 percent from a year ago, due to a 60 percent jump in fuel costs. CEO Ed Bastian said he doubts ticket prices will come down
anytime soon, even if fuel prices were to ease. That's bad news.
More bad economic news for the Trump administration and the Republican Party. Just weeks before the midterm elections, a new U.S. survey shows
consumer sentiment at its second lowest level ever, due, well, to the higher cost of gas and other consumer goods. Americans are feeling worse
about the economy this year than they were even during the COVID pandemic and even during the 2008 financial crisis.
Shares of U.S. telecom firms tumbled Friday on potential competition from Elon Musk's SpaceX. SpaceX has struck an $8 billion deal to buy wireless
spectrum licenses from an investment firm, Starlink, to become a major mobile carrier and a direct threat to firms such as Verizon, T-Mobile and
AT&T.
Coming up after the break, the U.S. Homeland Security secretary and New York City mayor now locked in a war of words after immigration agents shot
a man in a car with a young child in the backseat. The latest reaction next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
President Donald Trump says Russia has agreed to supply diesel fuel to the global markets. The announcement comes as high fuel costs in the economy
look to be critical in the U.S. midterms next month. Sanctions have been applied to Russia since its ongoing invasion of Ukraine. In order to move
that diesel, the U.S. Treasury Secretary says it will ease sanctions through early April. Of course, Russia will make a lot of money from
selling that diesel.
The U.S. Gulf Coast is bracing for Hurricane Isaias. The powerful storm is expected to make landfall near Pensacola, Florida. Florida, Alabama and
Georgia have declared states of emergency. Water levels are rising already. The storm surge is expected to reach as high as nine feet in the Florida
panhandle.
The alleged flight of a hijacker was inspired by the 9/11 attacks. This according to an early investigation carried out in the UAE. It says Hammam
al-Hammami, the suspect and co-pilot on last week's flight from Dubai to Israel, planned to crash the plane into Ben Gurion Airport to cause, quote,
"the greatest possible number of casualties."
U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin is defending the actions of ICE agents who opened fire into a car with a five-year-old boy in the
backseat. The incident in New York City has set off a firestorm of outrage. Luckily, the boy was unharmed. Officials say the driver of this silver
Honda, Oscar Belgal, was wounded. His injuries, though, not considered life-threatening.
This is police body cam footage. Homeland Security says Belgal has gang connections and had two prior arrests on drug and weapons charges. They
also claim he refused to get out of the car and drove into two government vehicles. The incident sparked angry protests in New York City last night
with protesters trying to block government cars.
There were strong words from both New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani and the DHS secretary who said agents did not know that a boy was in the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, NEW YORK MAYOR: ICE operates with impunity, that they sow chaos and terror across our country, that they have killed far more of our
neighbors than they could ever have claimed to save.
MARKWAYNE MULIN, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: ICE has killed more of our neighbors than they claim to save, just for a record here. Right now,
ICE has in attention 258 illegals that are wanted for murder charges. Just in New York alone. I'm speaking facts. The mayor speaks with political
tone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Senior National Security Analyst Jullette Kayyem joins me now, also a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.
Julia, if I could begin with just exactly what are police or law enforcement standards for firing into a vehicle?
[18:35:00]
Because DHS is saying, well we didn't know a kid was there. I mean, do you have to check to see that there aren't innocent people in the backseat
before you open fire?
JULLETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DHS: So, it's a great question and there's two answers. One is
most major law enforcement agencies, including most federal law enforcement agencies, have prohibitions from shooting into cars. For obvious reasons,
you don't know who's in them. If you shoot a driver while the car is moving, it could harm others. This is just sort of your common-sense
aspects. Unless the car is coming sort of straight for you, most have prohibitions on this.
The second is specific to this case, which is, it shows, how could you not see a five-year-old? I mean, in other words, it shows to me the ICE agents
who are not uniformed. I've looked at these videos, I was looking at it, I was like, who's the ICE agents? You cannot tell. Shoot into a car without
actually looking who is in the car, and it looks like they're not under any threat. I mean, just the image that we're showing right now, they're coming
to the car from the side, it doesn't appear to be moving, and the question is, was there an imminent harm or an imminent need for the arrest? So, in
all sorts of ways, this violates professional law enforcement standards.
SCIUTTO: So, once again, the federal officials are saying that the driver tried to weaponize the car and therefore put the agents in danger and
therefore gave justification to fire on the car. We'll learn more about the specific details. We're beginning to see something from videos, et cetera.
But what is ICE's track record in recent months when it claims that drivers were weaponizing their car, therefore requiring opening fire?
KAYYEM: Almost all of those cases, in fact, all of those cases have proven later on, all of those instances where ICE says they were weaponizing the
vehicle have been proven with later surveillance not to be true. So, in literature, they say, you know, that the narrator is unreliable. And I
think the Secretary of Homeland Security is unreliable in terms of their first, you know, in the early days, they weaponized the person they were
trying to get weaponized the car, when in fact, later on, we are more likely than not to see images that that is not true.
And in the video of the buildup to the moment of interaction, you don't see the car pushing anyone. You don't see the sort of, you know, lots of people
getting out of the way as you would when in instances where people do use vehicles to harm people.
So, I don't -- unfortunately, it's sad for me to say this. I just I -- the Department of Homeland Security is consistently wrong about the first
narrative. And the secretary is not a reliable fact purveyor.
SCIUTTO: Has the Department of Homeland Security have its officers, have ICE officers faced any legal consequences for previous instances where they
lied or claim justification for firing on vehicles or others based on such excuses?
KAYYEM: Not from the federal government, there has been no prosecutions, from what we can tell, there's been no after-action reports, there's been
no sort of statement by the department that the officers are being taken off the street. In most instances, we've come to understand that officers
continue to maintain their jobs on the streets as law enforcement agents. Other reforms that were expected vis-a-vis ICE do not appear to be true.
Well, I don't know why it's taken 24 hours to see the body cam from the ICE agents. The secretary said they were there. They are not I mean, the most
important, they are not they are not wearing anything that's identifying them as law enforcement agencies, at least what we can see right here.
So, honestly, it looks like a bunch of thugs approaching a car. So, I don't know what your reaction would be, but I'd be I might be a little bit more
nervous than not, especially with a five-year-old in the backseat. So, none of the oversight that we expected is actually happening right now.
The only difference from year one of the Trump administration is Secretary Noem, the former secretary who had a lot of bravado and performative
aspects to this. A lot of it is now hidden, but the numbers speak for themselves. This is ongoing throughout the United States. An armed federal
law enforcement agency shoots people without impunity.
SCIUTTO: It's remarkable. And by the way, the ICE agents are masked. The New York police officers are not. Julia Kayyem, thanks so much.
KAYYEM: Yes.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: The U.N. is denouncing the Pentagon's plan to live stream the execution of a former army psychiatrist who killed 13 people at a Texas
military base in 2009.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHABIA MANTOO, SPOKESPERSON, OFFICE OF U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: The live streaming of an execution is tantamount to a public
execution and would breach the absolute prohibition of torture. Failure to respect this prohibition would inevitably render the execution arbitrary in
nature and result in a violation of the right to life. And the absolute prohibition of torture prohibits public executions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Nidal Hasan is set to be executed by firing squad on December 3rd for the mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009. The U.S. president says his
administration will determine if it will in fact be live streamed. Vice President J.D. Vance says he does not plan to watch the execution himself.
This will be the first execution by firing squad by the U.S. military in decades, and it would be the first time the U.S. military showed an
execution live online.
That will be one of the issues President Trump's new White House press secretary must handle. Katie Zacharia will be the permanent replacement to
Karoline Leavitt. Zacharia is a conservative commentator who had been an adviser for President Trump's social media company, briefly worked at the
Department of Homeland Security.
Coming up on "The Brief," growing concerns over a lack of transparency, why the International Community is pressing Russia still to release details
about the death of a young lab worker.
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SCIUTTO: Russia has yet to confirm whether the death of a 28-year-old lab worker in Siberia last week was indeed caused by plague. Local officials
only say preventative measures in the region have been completed. Moscow said the young technician at the plague research lab died from pneumonia of
an unknown origin. The case has sparked international calls for greater transparency.
My next guest says, quote, "It is important that Russia released the details on what pathogen killed Dariya Shipilova and whether offensive
bioweapon activities continue at the Irkutsk lab where she worked."
Marshall Billingslea is a former U.S. Assistant Treasury Secretary for terrorist financing. Also former special presidential envoy for arms
control. Marshall, thanks so much for taking the time.
MARSHALL BILLINGSLEA, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT TREASURY SECRETARY FOR TERRORIST FINANCING: It's great to be with you.
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: You're not alone in demanding more transparency and just really simple answers on one, one of which is the simplest question. What exactly
did Shipilova die of? Is Russia providing any answers to those questions either in public or to our knowledge to the WHO or to the U.S. Government?
BILLINGSLEA: The answer is a flat no. They've not been transparent. They've not given answers yet to the Department of State. I don't believe that
Putin gave any answers to President Trump in their conversation today and likewise with the WHO. They know what killed her.
This is not rocket science. This is basic epidemiology that they perform, but they are refusing to disclose the genome sequence, the nature of the
pathogen. They're also not providing other key details like a timeline of her illness or the results of contact testing of those that she interacted
with. Rather, they're just issuing a flat denial that it's not the plague.
SCIUTTO: Beyond answering that quite simple question, what killed her, what are the other most important unanswered questions at this point?
BILLINGSLEA: Well, the reason that this is so important for us to know is because of what we also already know about that particular lab. We know
from defectors who came to the United States, including the number two in the in the Soviet biological weapons program, that this particular lab was
directly involved in the biological warfare program of the Soviet Union and presumably later Russia.
In fact, we also know later in Russia. Russia maintains an offensive biological warfare program that very much focuses on the plague and other
dangerous pathogens like the smallpox virus. They need to come clean. It's not just what was she working on. We know she was doing gain-of-function
work, which we all know about now from the Wuhan lab and COVID. But we also know that this lab was involved and here she is dying from what appears to
be a plague bacteria.
SCIUTTO: President Trump claims to have a very close relationship with the Russian president. What should the U.S. be demanding now? And what pressure
should it be willing to apply to get those answers that you're describing?
BILLINGSLEA: Great question. And what I can tell you is that the senior leadership within the State Department that are working on this issue, I
know them all personally and they are top-notch and they are asking all the right public health-related questions. Much of those questions are things
we've been discussing online, on Twitter, here with you and others. They're asking the right questions and they're pressing for answers. The Russians
are going to stonewall. The Russians will delay. They'll probably then pivot to some kind of denial. Well, they've already denied, but some kind
of lying activity.
And what will happen is in December when all of the countries that are party to the Biological Weapons Convention, which is the global treaty that
bans having these weapons, Russia is going to have a lot of answering to do. And my hope is it's not just the United States calling them out. We
need to see other countries, including non-aligned countries like Mexico, Brazil, India. The world needs to unite together to tell the Russians this
is irresponsible and come clean.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, we don't have a clear answer yet as to what happened here. What is the best, most informed theory at this point?
BILLINGSLEA: Well, the hopeful -- look, I don't think we're on the verge of a pandemic, OK? So, I would not want the audience to panic over that. It
appears to be contained. The Russian security apparatus appears to be subsiding. So, they think they've got it under control.
Best possible explanation is it's some kind of respiratory illness that got out of hand, a flu type virus that killed her. I have a lot of questions
about why the secrecy, why the non-transparency. If that's the explanation, they could just provide that information to us.
SCIUTTO: Marshall Billingslea. Let's hope we get those answers. Appreciate you joining.
BILLINGSLEA: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
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[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Three former OpenAI safety researchers say there were five fired by the company last week after their probe into why some of the firm's A.I.
agents went rogue and attacked tech firm Hugging Face. One of the workers believes he was fired because he repeatedly raised concerns that OpenAI is
losing the ability to monitor how those A.I. agents think and operate. OpenAI denies the claims. It says the workers will let go for violating
corporate policy on handling sensitive information.
Also, today, news site Axios says the tech leaders are privately discussing how to respond to the political and public fallout that would undoubtedly
come after a catastrophic A.I.-related event. Axios says that Anthropic, OpenAI and other firms are all discussing this so-called day-after
scenario. Industry insiders tell Axios a serious event such as an A.I.- driven cyber-attack could take place within the next six to 12 months.
Maria Curi joins me now, the Axios reporter who broke this story. So, Maria, I've heard this from a number of people watching A.I. closely, that
there's something brewing, that they're worried about some sort of event, A.I.-involved or A.I.-supercharged, in the next several months. What
specifically are A.I. executives worried about?
MARIA CURI, TECH POLICY REPORTER, AXIOS: They're specifically worried about losing control over this technology and a cyber-attack taking place that
could shut down water supplies, energy supplies, the internet, the power grid. And this could obviously lead to catastrophic risk and impact broad
swaths of the population. And what's notable about this too, is that they think that it's inevitable in the next six to 12 months.
And so, a lot of these companies, critical infrastructure players, the Pentagon, they will do these scenario testings to be prepared for this type
of situation. But what is key here is that the people developing this technology think it is inevitable that it'll happen.
SCIUTTO: Wow. OK. Inevitable. That's bad because that means you can't do anything about it. Do they believe, because of course, President Trump, a
lot of these A.I. executives have said, we have to do something, right? We have to -- and government, please help us. President Trump has said, no,
it's fine. You guys can self-regulate. Do they believe self-regulation can handle this?
CURI: So, depending on who you talk to in the industry, they have different takes on this. And so, we saw last month when the President had a dinner
with the largest A.I. CEOs and tech titans that, you know, what Mark Zuckerberg advocates for and what he helped shape and what came out of that
dinner is very different from what Dario Amodei might advocate for, or what Sam Altman might advocate for.
And so, you have the Frontier Labs saying, please regulate us. But when you go over to Congress and you ask lawmakers the nitty-gritty of what is going
to work and make sense, I think they are very apprehensive to take action that is going to result in the slowing down of this technology because
they're worried that China would beat the U.S. in this A.I. race and that the technology, if it's not dominated by the U.S., is dominated by a
foreign adversary that presents its own national security risks.
So, these A.I. executives are thinking that Congress just won't act and won't have the will to do something until after a catastrophic event takes
place.
SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you this then. Is the catastrophic event driven by A.I. agents acting on their own, or is it a state actor for an adversary of
some sort using A.I. to carry out such an attack?
[18:55:00]
CURI: Both. It could be either scenario. And so, in the first scenario, that is something that really is undermining some of the proposals that we
are seeing on Capitol Hill from Democrats, but also bipartisan proposals, for example, around kill switches requiring companies to have a mechanism
to shut down A.I. in the event of a catastrophic risk. But if the own A.I. labs that are developing this technology are losing control of it, then a
kill switch might not be the best option.
The other potential complicating factor here is that the economy is increasingly intertwined with A.I. and so shutting down artificial
intelligence, even after a catastrophic risk could further make the economy weaker.
SCIUTTO: Maria Curi, I kind of hope you're wrong. I hope they're wrong, but clearly folks are concerned. Thanks so much for joining.
CURI: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. We will continue to follow the A.I. story and many others. You've been
watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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