Return to Transcripts main page

Table For Five

President Trump's Low Approval Ratings May Affect Republican Party Candidates in Upcoming Midterms; President Trump Draws Controversy for Running Taxpayer-Funded Ads Promoting His Administration; President Trump to Hold Dinner for Purchasers of His Crypto Coin; CNN Article Discusses Jared Kushner's Financial Ties to Company Involved in Israel's Armaments Industry; Republican Candidates Run Political Ads Turning Away from Trump Administration's Immigration Policy; Republican Senator Eric Schmitt Fails in Attempt to Catch Former Special Counsel Jack Smith in Perjury Trap During Senate Hearing. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired October 03, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:00:34]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Today, the president's unpopularity hits a new record high, but he thinks the diagnosis is wrong.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: I give us an A-plus on the government, on economics, on everything.

PHILLIP: And he knows the cure.

TRUMP: The only thing we're doing badly at is public relations.

PHILLIP: Plus, winner, winner, crypto dinner. Donald Trump is once again called corrupt for getting richer off the presidency.

Also, it used to be his strongest issue. Now Trump is seeing Republicans run away from him on immigration.

And after they insulted and lectured him.

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT, (R-MO): You will go down as a total dirtbag.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY, (R-LA): You make me want to throw up in my mouth.

PHILLIP: A Republican senator tried inventing a conspiracy about Jack Smith but shoots an airball.

SCHMITT: What would you say if I had a series of text messages from your team that said you were in Atlanta at a Warrior-Hawks game?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D-MN): Could it then be that the University of Iowa is the Hawkeyes?

PHILLIP: Here in studio, Sabrina Singh, Joe Borelli, Astead Herndon, and Geraldo Rivera.

It's the weekend. Join the conversation at a "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Hi, everyone. I'm Abby Phillip.

We have no idea who will win the midterms, and most haven't even cast their votes yet. But as Republican concerns mount, Donald Trump is already kicking off the blame game. His popularity has hit a new career low. But if you ask him, blame the fake polls or blame the Republican Party, which he says voters are upset with, not him. And what about the economic concerns?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: Everyone thinks that the prices are high because of me, but they're not. We're the ones bringing down the prices. I just hope you can note.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: They are not. Even Republicans blame his tariffs and his war for the high prices.

And what about the concerns about affordability? Well, he's back calling those phony, fake, just made up by Democrats. What about all the Supreme Court decisions going against him? He blames his own handpicked justices. What about Republicans speaking out against his deportations? He's called one candidate and said that that person should be replaced. And criticism of his pet projects that are growing more and more expensive in Washington, he says sites like the White House are dumps. And scrutiny and reporting of all of his actions? Well, he's blaming the media, saying he never gets positive coverage, going so far as to blame three outlets, including CNN.

The president is characteristically, I guess, Astead, in denial about this. But I think the truth is getting louder and louder and louder, and even he can't ignore the reality, which is that they're going to get punished for what is actually happening, not just his view that this is all just about P.R.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think certainly that reality has reached him, even because some Republicans are growing louder in it. But, you know, I was just in Ohio at a Vivek Ramaswamy event kind of asking the question of how are they dealing with Trump's unpopularity? And the answer is they're not. I mean, you would think that it was the same campaign speech --

PHILLIP: Just ignoring Trump.

HERNDON: Just completely ignoring it from the speech up there.

But when you talk to the people in the crowd, they acknowledge their concerns about prices. They understand the causal link between the Iran war and raising things like gas prices. So when Donald Trump is trying to deflect that, like, those are even connections his own voters are making.

But he's seeing the writing on the wall, and I think he's becoming a more insular figure because of it.

PHILLIP: Is he being given bad advice? I'm sure someone is telling him that this is all about P.R., and I'm sure he fervently believes that, because I think he thinks of himself as the greatest marketer, to the point where he's commissioned these ads that are really just about himself, having taxpayers pay for it. But is he getting bad advice about really what the outlook is in this cycle?

JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: It's probably a bit of a yin and yang, right? Because there are definitely some consultants, pundits, and candidates in the Republican Party who are hoping that the midterm convention, for example, would have been some sort of a reset, a way to recalibrate the party on some of the issues that mattered to voters in 2024 which propelled them to victory.

At the same time, you have the other truth that Trump is the biggest vote getter in the Republican Party.

[14:05:01]

And Trump drives people to vote against him. We know that. But he also drives a tremendous number of people to vote for him. So there is a pretty good theory, and it seems to be the one that they're going with in a lot of states, especially where we'll see him campaign over the next 45 days or so, 40 days or so, is that that he's trying to turn out the voters who turned out for him in 2024. That's kind of been the thing. "I'm on the ballot, too," is the quote he's been using, hoping to turn out those voters who are still with him, still happy with his performance, and hoping that they make an impact.

SABRINA SINGH, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: I guess I'm a little confused on who is giving him the advice, because, you know, he has many people around him that were very successful in launching his second term and getting him elected to president again. And yet it's like, you know, is it like a choice that he's choosing not to read what everyone knows? And like the fact that he's putting himself in these taxpayer-funded ads, which makes my blood absolutely boil, and promoting his image where we know he's at the lowest approval rating he's ever been at, I just, there's some kind of disconnect, and I don't know, understand if it's from the president himself or if it's from advisers, you know, not giving him the hard truth.

Because having been in part of many campaigns, you know, historically, the president or the speaker is not popular. And that's why you just run your own race into what Astead was talking about in Ohio. They're just laser focused on running their own race. Donald Trump doesn't exist.

HERNDON: Doesn't exist.

SINGH: But Donald Trump is everywhere, and he is existing everywhere. PHILLIP: He doesn't want to not exist.

SINGH: Exactly. And that -- and he does not care.

PHILLIP: He cannot do that.

SINGH: He does not care that he's going to bring down his own candidates.

PHILLIP: So Steve Daines, a Republican, is warning that this could be really bad. And he's going actually, a lot of people have been talking about 2018, which was a good year for Democrats. He's going all the way back to 2006. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. STEVE DAINES, (R-MT): There's an argument, if you look at history, that 2026 feels a lot like 2006. Think about the condition of the country back in 06 -- an unpopular war, six in ten Americans opposed to the Iraq war at that point. Gas prices had doubled. Does this sound familiar?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Does it sound familiar to you?

GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST: That's it, absolutely. And he is the principal architect of the mother of all screwups. You know, the Iran war was something that was gratuitous. It was optional. It was not, you know, something he had to do. He had already nuked -- or bombed the nuke plants. Now, you know, he has to deal with the with the impact from what he, you know, that decision. Inflation is crazy. People don't have -- they make the same money, but it's worth less. Gas pump, you walk past it every day. You have -- that's the president's popularity. You're looking at the numbers on the gas. Gas, and you're in Ohio, $4.50. So that's $4.50. And diesel is like seven bucks almost. I mean, that's a -- that's the only people making money are the crypto creeps.

PHILLIP: If you look, it's gas at six bucks. Yes.

HERNDON: We hear it all the time. We were at a gas station, a speedway in Pennsylvania, and his own voters were saying, this is ridiculous. You know, I mean, he's not looking at the signs in front of him. And specifically, the problem is that he's lost himself with those infrequent voters that made him uniquely popular, right? Like, those type of people who only come out for Trump, that's where we've seen the biggest dropoff among Hispanic voters, among the working class people of color who backed him in the last term. That's been where he's really fallen off. And that's driven by the economic concerns.

And so I'm like, he has lost not only his most popular offensive issue in terms of the economy, but he's also lost, I think, credibility, too. And I feel like.

RIVERA: It hurts his feelings.

HERNDON: And --

RIVERA: He's a sensitive person.

HERNDON: And he just digs in.

RIVERA: It feels like he blundered into it.

SINGH: If he wouldn't have, you know, he wouldn't be squandering taxpayer money on, you know, funding these ads that are just self- promotions. I mean, there's no PSA announcement. It's just Donald Trump is great. But --

RIVERA: You know, I wonder if he's the one in the building who, you know, said to run those ads.

PHILLIP: That is what the reporting suggests, is that he is the one who said we ought to do this. And it's because you know that he believes that he is the only thing that matters. And maybe it will turn out to be the case because, to your point, it's about the base.

I do want to play J.D. Vance kind of backing into an acknowledgment that prices actually went up under Donald Trump. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENT: -- that under their leadership, they had eight percent inflation under Joe Biden. And in 2025, we brought it down below two percent. And so far in 2026, we've got it down below three percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So if you do the -- if you do the calculations on that, that means -- first of all, he's not right about the bringing it down below two percent piece of it. But when it goes from two percent to three percent, that's also called going up, not down.

[14:10:00]

BORELLI: But the premise is accurate, right? Americans lost more value in their dollar under Joe Biden than any other presidency, four- year term, in history. Americans lost 20 --

RIVERA: I don't buy that. I don't buy that. I don't buy that. What about COVID?

BORELLI: When you're saying when you're saying inflation went up, you know, three percent under Trump last year, whatever it was, and you don't acknowledge that inflation went up nine percent per year or whatever it was under Biden, that's kind of ridiculous to say that one matters and one doesn't. Americans lost 20 percent of their purchasing, purchasing power under one --

HERNDON: It's why Biden lost. (CROSS TALK)

HERNDON: It's why he's the president right now.

OBAMA: That's the vulnerability.

PHILLIP: -- that Biden had bad information.

BORELLI: That's the vulnerability --

PHILLIP: That is actually the issue for Trump.

BORELLI: Republicans have to confront that vulnerability, and Americans are still not feeling like the economy is recovering.

Look, we had a jobs number out today, maybe we'll talk about it later. But the other economic indicators that we track, GDP growth --

SINGH: The stock market.

BORELLI: Investments, stock market, obviously, all these things are actually rocking and rolling. It's just that Americans themselves might not be feeling it. And that is a vulnerability. That's a vulnerability.

SINGH: Yes, because that's a very small percentage.

HERNDON: Yes, yes.

SINGH: You were talking about, we might talk about the jobs report, but that that is significant to the people that don't have access to the stock market or are not investing in the stock market. The stock market, bonds, it's doing very well for rich, for richer people. But for the average person who is literally driving by the, the, you know, the gas pump and seeing the prices and then seeing, you know, ads paid for by the taxpayers running on TV and can't afford groceries, or making the decision to decide what to buy at a grocery store, I think that's deeply problematic for Republicans.

HERNDON: The combination is what he's focusing on. He's not doing something about inflation as he's doing the ballroom, as he's --

(CROSS TALK)

RIVERA: He's also doing things to enrich himself or his children. And so as people are frustrated, as they as they keep slipping and sliding --

BORELLI: But let's respond --

PHILLIP: Well, that's the perfect segue because we are going to talk about that very thing later in the show.

RIVERA: The kids are making all kinds of money and they're not.

PHILLIP: Next for us, a former Obama official says it is the most brazenly corrupt thing that he's ever seen. The president offering another crypto dinner despite many of his investors losing money off of his meme coin.

Plus, is shame dead in our society or is it just with MAGA? How one senator's conspiracy stunt backfired, and he doesn't seem to care.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

PHILLIP: Welcome back. The alleged grift appears to be a family business. We've heard about how rich Donald Trump's sons are getting, which includes government contracts. And now a CNN investigation finds Jared Kushner's private company has the largest stake in an Israeli firm involved in Israel's military campaigns. So what's the conflict of interest? Well, Kushner is also acting as a volunteer envoy for the Trump administration, putting his business role and his diplomatic role side by side. Kushner is now disputing that characterization, calling CNN's report, quote, "deeply misleading", and adding that he has no role in deciding what that Israeli firm buys or sells, and that his company's investment predates both Trump's reelection and Kushner's return to public service.

And when it comes to the president himself, as his net worth climbs by the billions, he's now under fire for another meme coin event that promises high rollers a dinner with him. One former Obama official calls it "the most brazenly corrupt shit" he's ever seen.

Geraldo, since you were discussing this, I mean, one of the things that's so problematic about a lot of this stuff is that there is both the perception and the reality. And I think that both matter to the American people. What normally, when you have people working on international affairs or they're working in government roles, they go through a process where they disclose their conflicts, where they have to go through ethics reviews to avoid the appearance of conflicts. Then, on the other hand, you have the president, who is just literally making billions of dollars off of a scam.

RIVERA: He is unapologetic about it. He thinks that as long as it's not illegal, let the good times roll. And the fact that Jared and Eric and Don Jr. are making all this money with all of these, you know, side businesses, he thinks that that he thinks that's the American way.

And I -- look, and it's the most outrageously corrupt situation we've seen ever. Ever. You've never had a situation where people, wealth has increased by the billions. And when it -- when it plays out at the same time as the Congress not passing the insider trader law where they can still own stocks and, you know, trade stocks, even though they're, you know, in office and affecting, you could argue, what happens to, you know, to the thing that's being -- the value of the thing that's being discussed, I just think that it's -- there's a shamelessness to it that I think is really tawdry.

The saving grace, if there is one, is that I am in favor of these monumental buildings that are going on. I'm in favor of Washington being overpoliced and gold leaf being used in Oval Office.

[10:20:06]

I think that we need a, you know, as the as the seat of empire, I don't mind at all that the city looks good and that the monuments will far outlive him and give him something to be proud of, and I'm proud of him for that.

But the scummy thing is what they're doing with this side money and how they're making it, raking it in by the barrelful. And people who are, who are in a tight situation, those are the ones who are most affected and most hurt by it.

PHILLIP: Yes.

SINGH: Can I just add to that? Because, I think just one thing that you said about public office, I mean, people don't go into public office to make money. And yet this president is enriching himself by the millions, billions of dollars.

And when I was at the Pentagon, one of the things that you had to disclose was you have to disclose everything. And I could never imagine myself being at my desk, much lower than someone like Jared Kushner or Steve Witkoff, the president, and having stock in a defense company. I mean, that would just -- that was not allowed. And that's because of the conflict of interest.

PHILLIP: And I would just say, because if that's not -- if it's not clear, both Witkoff and Kushner do not have official roles in the government. They are basically moonlighting. So that allows them to kind of be exempt from all of this disclosure that --

SINGH: And Eric Trump, too.

PHILLIP: Yes. And that is not the way that this is supposed to work. It is not supposed to be that you have people who have potential business conflicts, right, whether they predate the job or not, going in and operating on behalf of the United States government. I mean, it seems transparent --

BORELLI: You're saying this is not supposed to be how it works, but I want to point out that this is probably not how media is supposed to work. So we're spending an entire segment debating the premise that Jared Kushner is corrupt, whereas the article that we're discussing right now, the operable line in it, is that CNN did not find that anything Jared Kushner did in his public role has anything to do with these stocks. This is a --

PHILLIP: Did I say that?

BORELLI: No. But this is the premise. This is the problem --

PHILLIP: No, no, no, it's actually not the premise. That's why --

BORELLI: Yes it is. The point of this article was to put Jared Kushner's name and the word "conflict" in a headline. PHILLIP: Hold on, Joe. Don't put words in my mouth. That is not the

premise, because as I described it here, when I introduced the topic, what I said was, there is a reason that this is not supposed to happen this way, because the appearance of a conflict is problematic enough. Most government officials, all of them, actually, if you work in the government in any capacity, you cannot have that situation. You cannot have ownership in a company that is involved in the thing that you are working on.

BORELLI: Just so the audience is clear. Jared Kushner owns a percentage of this company. This company owns --

PHILLIP: So, Joe, so, Joe, I'm just saying to you --

BORELLI: I think, I think you should be honest about what you're reporting on.

PHILLIP: Do you acknowledge that, regardless of whether there it is influencing him or it is not influencing him, it is a situation that is, a, unusual --

BORELLI: I'm not answering yes or no questions unless you let me explain the context.

PHILLIP: -- and b, it does not apply to anybody in the government, and c --

BORELLI: This is a broader -- this is a company. Jared Kushner owns an investment company. The investment company owns a percentage of an Israeli investment company, which owns $250 billion of assets, including thousands of companies that they own shares in.

PHILLIP: Any other government employee --

BORELLI: Hold on, something like -- hold on. Something like 11 of the 10,000 are involved in the defense of Israel. And that's the premise of this article. The purpose --

RIVERA: You're saying that they have no interest, that there's no connection?

BORELLI: Yes. I'm actually saying that the very article we're discussing said that, not me.

RIVERA: But if their wealth, if their wealth is increasing --

BORELLI: Jared Kushner even --

RIVERA: What, because they're not watching the book themselves?

BORELLI: This is why -- this is why the president has serious objections to networks that he believes treat him unfairly. We have, we have, we have a premise that Jared Kushner is corrupt, whereas the article itself says that, hey, we have no evidence of Jared Kushner ever actually influencing any of the things were saying he is.

PHILLIP: Joe, Joe, again.

BORELLI: But we're going to put the headline that Jared is corrupt, put a picture of him, and put it online.

PHILLIP: If you tell me where it says in the article that Jared Kushner is corrupt, then maybe I'll be down with what you're saying.

BORELLI: No, you don't want to get sued. I know you didn't say that. The whole premise of Jared Kushner has a potential conflict of interest.

PHILLIP: Joe, what your problem is with --

BORELLI: -- is that why we're discussing it.

PHILLIP: You have a problem with the fact that we know about it. And that's what -- that's what I have a problem with.

BORELLI: It's a publicly traded company. All of their trades are available.

PHILLIP: I have a problem with --

BORELLI: It's the equivalent of Fidelity or Vanguard.

PHILLIP: I think a problem with the fact that you think it's wrong that the American people ought to know --

BORELLI: You can see, you can see --

RIVERA: How is it that they're in this particular business, they're in this particular business --

(CROSS TALK)

RIVERA: Hold on a sec --

(CROSS TALK)

RIVERA: They're not in the used car business.

BORELLI: That's the point. They own shares of a company that owns thousands of companies, including the 10 or 11 we're discussing.

SINGH: Joe, they fund a company that buys and sells weapons that Israel is using in Gaza, which Jared Kushner is actually the envoy or engaged in --

BORELLI: Which is a fractionally small part of this company's investment portfolio, which is public. And again, all this --

RIVERA: Is their wealth affected by --

BORELLI: And all this took place before Trump was even in office. So Jared Kushner is an evil, you know, manipulator who decided to --

RIVERA: Joe, is their wealth affected by --

PHILLIP: You've been talking. Can you stop for five minutes?

RIVERA: Is their wealth affected by their public actions? In other words, do the things they do, you know, as the designated, you know, ambassador, whatever you, ambassador per se, whatever you call them, do the things they do affect their personal wealth, yes or no? The answer is, of course it affects their personal wealth. And to and to be childish about it and to be so defensive about it is an indication that this is why the president is losing popularity, because he doesn't get --

PHILLIP: I'm going to let Astead have a quick word.

HERNDON: I just think, like, you know, we could talk about this one specifically, but Donald Trump's grift in this second term has been open. Like, you know, the kids and the prediction markets, like, all the way down.

RIVERA: Crypto.

HERNDON: I also find it to be one of the few things D and R bases agree about. Like, right? Like, I mean, the defense of Jared Kushner individually actually stands outside where the American people are, where the recognition of corruption is honestly universal. And so I think one thing that if there's a hopeful thing about the openness in the way Trump has acted, I think it's actually going to spur action, because I actually think we actually --

RIVERA: They're shameless. They're shameless.

PHILLIP: Probably not in time to stop it from happening. But yes, I mean, I think that I've heard more Republicans complain about this than pretty much anything else that Trump does on a regular basis.

Next for us, more Republicans are running away from Trump on his deportations, especially as they hurt America's workforce. And now there's reportedly tension between Trump and his DHS chief.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:31:24]

PHILLIP: It seems like every week ahead of these midterms, Republicans are running away from Donald Trump on something, a new issue, tariffs, the war. And now it appears to be immigration. The president is underwater on what used to be his strongest issue, thanks in part to ICE and how and who his administration has been deporting.

Now, we saw a Republican senator from the deep red West Virginia state criticize how the deportations are affecting the workforce, and even candidates are calling his actions a betrayal to Hispanic voters. Now, for his part, Trump addressed that voting bloc this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: You know, there's lots of different names. Latinos, they call them, so many different names. But I've used Hispanics, and I got elected, and I got a big majority of your votes, so I'm going to keep using the same, the same word.

There's a tunnel going to what will be, I think, the greatest ballroom ever built. You literally will be the first group ever to enter the premises.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: So be very careful. Don't fall over the edge, because it's a long way down. And only a Hispanic could survive that fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: What a relief.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: Sounds like a great midterm message.

RIVERA: Really.

PHILLIP: They're going to love that down in Texas.

RIVERA: This has been the absolutely most militant, negative attack on the Hispanic, Latino population in this country in my lifetime. What they have done with ICE is to humiliate and to, and to victimize tens of thousands of people. They said they're going after the criminal illegals. They went after Juan and Maria, the apple picker and the dishwasher. They are terrorizing entire communities. ICE with that mask -- no other police department, no other cop, no FBI, no one else who has that, only ICE. And they do it because it's shameful, it's shameful what they're doing.

Close the border, fine. Close the border. What about the people who've been here 10, 15, 20 years, never, never once committed a crime or anything other than a speeding ticket?

PHILLIP: Here's Texas Republican Congresswoman Monica De La Cruz. She's in a competitive race. Look, this is where it's going to matter, OK, in November. Here's an ad that she ran just to show you how this issue is playing down there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband and I did things the right way, but we were stuck in a broken immigration system. We need to secure our borders to keep our families safe. But this immigration system is broken. So we reached out to Monica De La Cruz. She helped with my husband's immigration case. I voted Democrat before, but Monica puts people over politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: That's an ad about a DACA recipient that Monica De La Cruz helped get out of ICE custody. And I think that's also emblematic of the other thing that's been happening, which is that Republicans have been saying, oh, they support Trump's immigration policies. But then picking up the phone on behalf of their constituents to get people like the people that Geraldo described out of ICE detention. They've been doing that for the last 15 months.

HERNDON: Yes, they've recognized that where the policy and the politics have shifted, but they're not kind of converging. The reason why we've seen this go from a kind of Democrats and a small advantage to wave potential is largely driven through the collapse of Trump's support among Hispanic voters. I mean, it's been 20, 30 points in terms of reversal. That's driven somewhat by the same kind of economic concerns, but it's really driven by a backlash to the immigration actions.

[14:35:02]

And then, you know, you know, in some way it can be kind of confounding because, you know, Republicans were holding up "mass deportation now" signs at the RNC in 2024. But a lot of those voters believe that that would be targeted for folks who were not -- or targeted towards criminals or people who were violent. That's not what we've seen. The Trump administration tried to make a show out of this, and I think to the point, has tried to inflict, I would say, a form of terror on these communities.

RIVERA: It is terror.

HERNDON: And I think that is the backlash we're seeing.

BORELLI: Look, I think what happened at the border under the Biden administration presented an opportunity for Trump or Republicans in general to use immigration as an issue that propelled them back into power. That's not a secret. And you probably saw the pendulum swing a little too far.

And when you look at historic polling on the issue, it's always been consistent that, for the most part, Americans want a strong border. They want people who are here doing criminal things deported. But for the rest of the people, the people that have been here long and have not committed crimes, there really seems to have always been some issue with, how do we get these people to be legalized? How do we get them to stay? How do we treat them responsible? And I think you're seeing a return to that natural middle by the American public. And maybe there's some -- maybe some of the Republicans are a little slow to --

SINGH: Well, I mean, I would say to that, Joe, what you're talking about is comprehensive immigration reform, something that this president actually could do as the Republicans control both chambers of Congress. But if you had told me two years ago that you would see an ad like that, or the ad that the congresswoman from Florida filmed outside the White House, hitting back on these deportation policies, I never would have believed you because, to your point, this was the exact issue that Donald Trump was very strong at. And now it's almost his albatross. It's like, what's pulling him down.

BORELLI: They should be taking credit. They should be saying mission accomplished. We promised this. We delivered it. And now we're going to work on a path to the future. That would be -- that would be --

HERNDON: It would be one thing if the administration actually agreed with those sort of targeted efforts. We know where this is coming from. The Donald Trump, Stephen Miller version of immigration does not care about that distinction.

RIVERA: I agree.

HERNDON: And so they made an intentional point to be to be excessive. And that is what we saw.

PHILLIP: All right, next for us, a pretty wild moment during a Jack Smith hearing on Capitol Hill when a Republican senator tried to make a perjury trap. But the only problem was the trap was just a conspiracy. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:53]

PHILLIP: Is shame officially dead? Well, it might be, at least in MAGA world. Once again, Republicans hauled Jack Smith to a hearing to insult and lecture him about his prosecution of Donald Trump. And once again, there was no evidence of a smoking gun or illegal behavior. But that didn't stop one senator from trying to insinuate that by inventing a conspiracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT, (R-MO): What would you say if I had a series of text messages from your team that said you were in Atlanta at a Warrior-Hawks game on February 3rd, 2024, the day after Willis and Wade announced their affair? I don't think you know that we have this stuff, so I'll give you a second to process it so you don't, you know, perjure yourself.

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: You just took it down really quick. If I could look at that again?

I recall going to a University of Maryland basketball game. It was Maryland playing Iowa, I think February of 2024. But again, that's -- you can check that out if that's what we're talking about.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D-MN): Could it then be that the University of Iowa is the Hawkeyes? Could that be it?

SCHMITT: Who's questioning is this, by the way, Mr. Chairman? Are you, are you using, your time, Senator? Is this what this is?

KLOBUCHAR: No.

SCHMITT: Are we just are we just having, like, an open session here? KLOBUCHAR: I will begin my questions? I just in shock.

SCHMITT: I'm glad you're trying to rehabilitate the witness, but it's not --

KLOBUCHAR: You are calling a witness a dirtbag and showing him --

SCHMITT: I presented him with text messages about him wanting to meet with people that could have obviously been related to the prosecution that was coordinated with his office in Atlanta.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I'm going to begin my questions now, but I think that people should have their facts straight before they accuse someone of being a dirtbag and not get the teams wrong.

SCHMITT: I stand by that statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That's Senator Eric Schmidt from Missouri, has yet to apologize or acknowledge the bogus evidence. In fact, he went to MAGA media to do some victory laps.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you had text messages from his team confirming that he was going to a Hawks game. And he sat there acting dumbfounded and completely clueless.

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT, (R-MO): It was the only it was the only NBA or NCAA men's game going on at that time in Atlanta. He claimed later that he was at another game. I don't, you know, here's the thing. My job is to ask the questions. He's already -- and if that's what his answer is, then that's what his answer is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So there's that.

I have to say, even if he were in Atlanta, that would also be one of the dumber conspiracies that I've ever heard.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: That he went to, he went to a basketball game in Atlanta to collude with Fani Willis.

SINGH: About what?

PHILLIP: About what?

BORELLI: And both parties use hearings like this on polarizing issues to -- they each try to lecture and get their one minute viral clip. The problem is when you make the viral clip and you're the person that has to like sink into the bushes after what you're saying. It's just, you know, the rake just came up and whacked him in the face, and you're better off just firing the staffer, apologizing, and moving on instead of doubling down on it. Find something else out about Jack Smith that you don't like and harp on that.

[10:45:04]

PHILLIP: But it was worse than just the viral clip. I mean, he was literally trying to insist -- to claim --

BORELLI: Now, he was the meme. You ever see the meme where the guy has --

PHILLIP: He was claiming that Jack Smith was perjuring himself, which is a crime.

SINGH: Well, you asked at the beginning, is shame dead in MAGA world? And I think, yes, shame is -- there's no shame anymore. Because to your point, like if he had just apologized, said we got it wrong, I think we would not still be talking about this on a Saturday. But we're talking about this, you know, and it's been almost a week. Like, it's embarrassing for him.

RIVERA: About the "dirtbag" thing. I'm really irked in a very personal way when people use that kind of provocative insult to try and get -- score a political point. Jack Smith is a lot of things. He's not a dirtbag. I think he went too far in the investigations of particularly the documents at Mar-a-Lago. I think they made a whole big thing out of something that should be nothing, as it was with Biden. It was nothing.

But Jack Smith's over-aggressiveness, certainly, doesn't justify the conduct and the thinking of these politicians that, you know, conspiracies and then, and Smith is looking to take down the republic. You know, it's ridiculous.

HERNDON: An embarrassing moment, embarrassing not to -- embarrassing to double down. I think it shows how coordinated this was a play with MAGA media that he immediately was jumping on there.

PHILLIP: There were people tweeting that exchange literally as it was playing out.

HERNDON: Immediately as it was happening. And so I'm saying, you see that kind of coordination playing out more.

But I do think to the question of shame, like, we have seen more and more politicians trying to take the Donald Trump playbook of never apologize, move forward, and just never give an inch. And so I think that that's mostly -- that's mostly like been Republicans to follow that standard. I remember Jasmine Crockett not apologizing when she got old boy's name wrong about on the congressional forum. I think there's been more people who have taken that on.

BORELLI: We're supposed to be debating the merits right now of Jack Smith's investigation, of which half the country thinks one way, half the country thinks another thing. And it's a rallying cry. And there's a genuine question of his intentions, the timing of it, all that. Instead we're talking about one senators dumb gaffe because it was so dumb.

SINGH: Yes, because there was there there with the hearing. That's the problem.

RIVERA: Why investigate Jack Smith at all in House since the Supreme Court --

(CROSS TALK)

HERNDON: If they would have landed the blow on Jack Smith we would be talking about that.

BORELLI: Yes, I think the actions that Jack Smith took deserve scrutiny. You released the timing of when the special counsel was called, when the report was -- when the indictments were released. All these things indicate a political willingness to interfere --

SINGH: That's what the hearing was for. That's not --

BORELLI: And that's what we should be talking -- and that's what we should be --

PHILLIP: The issue is that they want to accuse Jack Smith of committing a crime, and they have zero evidence of it. You might not like -- I think it is totally fine. Just like Geraldo said, he doesn't like the way he carried out certain investigations. That's a very normal thing, and it's fine --

BORELLI: How come you didn't like it when I said it? I said the same thing.

PHILLIP: No, I'm just saying it's fine to not like it. But what they're -- what they're trying to do is accuse the man of criminal conduct, which is a very high bar. And they've got to come with the goods. And they had nothing. So that's one of the other reasons that this whole fiasco was embarrassing, not just for Eric Schmitt.

All right, next for us, the panel's unpopular opinions.

But first, a quick programing note for you. A new CNN flash doc explores Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and his lasting impact on social media. "Zuckerberg, Facebook, and the Cost of Connection" premieres on Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on CNN and the next day with an all- access subscription.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:29]

PHILLIP: We're back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. Astead, you're up.

HERNDON: Unpopular opinion, polls matter less as we get closer to Election Day. We could stop talking about them three weeks out. They're bad at understanding late decided voters. We mostly know all the information we need to know about the macro environment. And I think also, it's the point in the cycle where the takes get untethered from reality. And so I'm like, put your poll brains down. We basically know the stuff we need.

PHILLIP: Yes, all the what about this place? And what about that place?

HERNDON: Yes, yes, yes.

PHILLIP: That's not. All right.

RIVERA: I think Secretary of War Pete Hegseth is right to demand of the armed forces that they become more lean and mean and lethal and less H.R., less political correctness. No trans surgeries on the Defense Department budget. I think that making the military a profession that people can be proud of and have a certain, you know, expectation when they see a soldier or marine or sailor or airman. I think that Pete's on the -- that aspect of what he's doing will be remembered well.

PHILLIP: OK.

SINGH: Well, I certainly did not go political or serious.

(LAUGHTER)

SINGH: I think -- my unpopular opinion hot take is I don't think you need jelly in the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I think it's just good with just peanut butter. And --

HERNDON: That's a different thing.

(LAUGHTER)

SINGH: Yes, exactly. I just think jelly is the weakest ingredient. And I know it's very unpopular.

PHILLIP: OK. That actually is a legit unpopular opinion.

[14:55:00]

SINGH: I know, I know. Just peanut butter and toast. That's all we need. Yes.

PHILLIP: All right.

BORELLI: We're not going to invite her back, right?

(LAUGHTER)

BORELLI: OK.

PHILLIP: No, that's kind of foreboding.

BORELLI: So my opinion is that United Airlines is the best airline. It's time we stop --

(BOOS)

PHILLIP: Oh my gosh.

BORELLI: There was this whole hullabaloo over --

HERNDON: Fly out of Newark.

BORELLI: Yes, so you know me. But they had this whole hullaballoo with Delta not having Starlink. And then the CEO was bashing Elon Musk. And it just revealed to the public that United is just the best. They have the best product.

PHILLIP: So show me your stock portfolio.

(LAUGHTER)

BORELLI: I may have U.A., I may have U.A. stock, I may.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: All right, everyone, thanks for being here. Thank you for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". And you can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. eastern with our news roundtable. But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)