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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

At Least 44 Killed, Nearly 300 Missing in Hong Kong Fire; DHS Identifies National Guard Shooting Suspect; Interview with Representative Maxine Waters (D-CA). Aired 12-1a ET

Aired November 27, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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COATES: -- for watching. Elex Michaelson got the coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michaelson. Welcome to THE STORY IS.

We are following two big breaking stories at this hour. In Washington, two National Guardsmen fighting for their lives after a shooting near the White House. But we begin in Hong Kong, where authorities fear the death toll could rise dramatically in a massive apartment block fire.

As it stands right now, 44 people are confirmed dead. Nearly 300 others are unaccounted for, and many may be trapped on the building's higher floors.

You're looking at live pictures right now from Hong Kong. Its 1:00 in the afternoon right there. Firefighters are working to put out isolated flames. This firefight has been going on for nearly 21 hours.

CNN's Hanako Montgomery joins us live from Hong Kong. She has just arrived to one of the spots where some of the survivors have been taken.

Hanako, what are you seeing where you're at?

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Elex. As you mentioned, I am at the biggest evacuation center in Hong Kong. We're actually just several hundred meters away from where the fire occurred in Tai Po. And I just want to show you some of the things that we've been seeing here. Behind me, there are stacks and stacks of bottles of water. Also, instant food and different types of juices meant for the evacuees, people who are in desperate need of shelter.

And then just down here, if you follow me, I don't want to get in the way of anyone evacuating here. But there's also just a pile of bedding and also mattresses meant for the people who are now taking shelter at this evacuation center.

And, Elex, as you mentioned, at least 44 people have died and a couple hundred people at least are still unaccounted for. And as people have been leaving that massive apartment complex and trying to find shelter, they're coming here. People also who are trying to look for their relatives, people who don't know where their loved ones still are, are coming here to try to get more information from the police, from the authorities.

And as you can see, there are lots of volunteers here as well. I mean, it's been a huge community effort as people are just trying to gather their resources, trying to gather the sufficient aid necessary to help those in desperate need.

Now, also, Elex, I do want to mention here that there have been a couple million dollars donated to Hong Kong from Chinese companies, again, in order to help support those in desperate need of such a desperate situation right now in Hong Kong -- Elex.

MICHAELSON: And we know that three people have been arrested. There is a criminal investigation into what they're calling gross negligence from the construction workers here.

MONTGOMERY: Yes, you're absolutely right. We know that at least three people have been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. Now, those three individuals again, of course, this is very, very early days into the investigation. But authorities have said that the three individuals were tied to one specific company that was responsible for some of the construction efforts and also the materials used to repurpose and rebuild some of these buildings in the apartment complex.

Now, the name of that company was written on these materials. So, again, that is what led in part to their arrest. Now authorities have speculated a number of different reasons why these fires spread so quickly and also so intensely. One concern is perhaps that people weren't evacuated in time, weren't evacuated quickly enough once that initial fire began around 3:00 p.m. local time on Wednesday.

Another concern is that a lot of the materials used at these construction sites were highly flammable. We're talking about materials that are similar to plastic netting, also to canvases, and also bamboo scaffolding. Now, Hong Kong has long used this material in order to use it for scaffolding. But of course, bamboo is a type of wood and once it catches fire, it can be highly, highly flammable.

So again, investigators don't actually know the specific reason, the concrete reason, why this fire was so deadly and spread so rapidly. But there are a number of suspicions and questions that still remain unanswered -- Elex.

MICHAELSON: Yes. So this complex had about 2,000 apartments, some 4,000 residents. We see a lot of the folks behind you. What are people saying, that you've come across?

MONTGOMERY: Elex, I mean, I think the resounding feeling here is absolute fear. I mean, when that fire initially broke out, residents have been saying that they didn't really know the extent of the fire. They didn't know how devastating it was going to be. It was initially, of course, a small fire, and then it began to spread rapidly and rapidly, and spread to multiple buildings in that apartment complex. In fact, my producer spoke to a couple of people at the evacuation

center just moments ago, and they said that, you know, they were on their way home from work when they got a phone call from their family member saying that their apartment was on fire.

[00:05:08]

Now, there are also some individuals inside that evacuation center upstairs who haven't been able to contact their family members. They don't know if their loved ones are alive or not, and they still might be stuck inside that building.

Now. Elex, firefighters and rescue operators are still currently trying to access a number of people who still remain unaccounted for. They're trying to get to those higher floors inside those buildings that have been too hot to actually reach, even for those emergency operators. So again, Elex, we still don't know what is the status of those individuals that are remaining to be stuck in those buildings. But of course, there is fear that that death toll can rise in the coming hours -- Elex.

MICHAELSON: Yes, right now at 44. But as you mentioned, almost 300 people still missing.

Hanako Montgomery, we will get back to you throughout the next couple hours of coverage. Thank you for your reporting. Just arriving on the scene there.

Now we go to our other breaking story. This one is in Washington. Law enforcement officials tell CNN that the suspect involved in a shooting that left two National Guardsmen in critical condition has now been identified. His name is Rahmanullah Lakanwal. Authorities say he is -- sources say he's in custody and that he's not cooperating with police.

The mayor of Washington, D.C., Muriel Bowser, says the Guardsmen were targeted on Wednesday while they were on patrol near the White House. The president of the United States, Donald Trump, says the Department of Homeland Security is, quote, "confident" that that suspect came to the U.S. from Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This heinous assault was an act of evil, an act of hatred and an act of terror. It was a crime against our entire nation. It was a crime against humanity. We're not going to put up with these kind of assaults on law and order by people who shouldn't even be in our country. We must now reexamine every single alien who has entered our country from Afghanistan under Biden, and we must take all necessary measures to ensure the removal of any alien from any country who does not belong here, or add benefit to our country. If they can't love our country, we don't want them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So after those comments, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said that all immigration cases for Afghanistan nationals have been, quote, "stopped indefinitely."

The two Guardsmen who were shot are part of the West Virginia National Guard. The state's former governor, who is now its senator, Jim Justice, had this to say after the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): We deserve to be safe in our cities. We deserve to be safe in our homes. All our president is trying to do is reduce the crime and absolutely all of us should celebrate that. You know, but yet this is such a heinous act. It just -- it's off the chart to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: CNN's Brian Todd reports from the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just about every account from law enforcement officials, from sources and from D.C. city officials, this was an ambush. D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser saying that the National Guardsmen were targeted in this shooting. But a motive for the shooting right now not clear.

What we do know from Jeff Carroll, the assistant executive police chief of the Metropolitan Washington Police force, is that at about 2:15 p.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday, a gunman came around a corner, raised a firearm, discharged it toward a National Guardsman who was a mere few feet away from the suspect. The suspect then turned their gun on a second Guardsman, who, according to sources, tried to take cover behind a bus stop shelter.

Sources telling CNN that the gunman and the National Guardsman exchanged gunfire before the National Guardsmen were shot. At the time of this report, we can tell you that FBI director Kash Patel says that the two National Guardsmen are in critical condition.

Setting the scene for you here. This is a heavy police presence right near the scene. The scene 17th and I Streets Northwest is just beyond where these officers are in the foreground, right back there. This was near a Metro stop, a Metro train stop, according to the joint task force.

We did speak to one eyewitness, a young man named Ryaan Aqid (PH), a visiting college student, who said that he heard the gunshots. He tried to hide behind some chairs because he knew what was going on. He then looked toward the scene. He said that he saw someone lying on their stomach on the ground with their hands behind their back, with at least one person holding them down.

He said he assumed that was the shooter. He said he also then saw some people administering CPR to one of the apparent victims. That's a consistent account that we got from another eyewitness, a lady who said that she saw CPR being administered to a victim after she had heard the gunshots. [00:10:09]

As for an apparent motive, we did ask that of the Assistant Executive Police Chief Jeff Carroll. They did not answer that at this time. The two National Guardsmen and the suspect are at local hospitals being treated.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Thanks to Brian.

Let's bring in CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore, who is a retired supervisory special agent with the FBI.

Steve, thanks so much for being with us. What's happening right now behind the scenes in terms of this investigation?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this is going to be a massive investigation. It's going to go multinational. It's going to go multi-state. You have somebody who has been in the country for, what, four years, possibly from Afghanistan, was working with our military, allegedly, in Afghanistan, came over here seeking political asylum and was working or living in Washington state.

So you've got all that going on. You have agents in Washington, you have the legal attache, who's going to be handling Kabul area or possibly Islamabad, working on finding out what they can from him. Agents talking to the military who sponsored him over here. This is a massive investigation.

MICHAELSON: So President Trump is saying basically that everybody from Afghanistan, we're going to stop all immigration cases indefinitely. Do we have any indication so far that this is part of something broader, that the country or other Afghan nationals are involved in this, or is this an isolated incident?

MOORE: We don't have an idea whether it's isolated or whether there are more people involved. I would be stunned if this was a mass movement within the Afghan community. I think what you're probably seeing is one individual, possibly more if he's got some friends who believe what he believes. But it is -- it is not uncommon for when you -- when you realize that you've had one major security breach in a -- in a system of vetting people coming to the country to not necessarily re-investigate everyone, but re-investigate your procedures before you continue.

MICHAELSON: So as far as what you can tell then, do you feel like there is sort of an active threat here or this is something that was unfortunate, but not something larger?

MOORE: I -- what I'm saying is you cannot assume that there is not an active threat.

MICHAELSON: Got it. MOORE: There's no indication from what I've heard that there is an

active threat. However, you have to, when you're talking about shots fired blocks from the White House by a military trained foreign national, you can't assume anything. You have to determine everything.

MICHAELSON: And in terms of when you first heard about this, what was the first thing that went through your mind as somebody who's schooled in this?

MOORE: You know, my first thought was, well, if these are National Guardsmen who were brought in by this current administration in what has been a controversial move it seemed to me very likely that this was targeted against them for political reasons. I still think that's very, very likely. But I was kind of surprised by the nature of the assailant, the alleged assailant. But it is still apparent to me, although this will have to be proven in court, that this was a targeted act of political violence, which is terrorism. It's the definition.

MICHAELSON: We're thinking about and praying for those troops and their families tonight, especially as we head into now Thanksgiving Day.

Steve Moore, thanks for staying up late with us. I really appreciate your insights. Thanks so much, and Happy Thanksgiving to you.

MOORE: You too.

MICHAELSON: Coming up, Congresswoman Maxine Waters went viral this week for calling President Trump, quote, "low down and filthy." She joins us next in studio to defend those remarks and talk about her future.

And we continue to follow that breaking news out of Hong Kong, where rescue crews are still trying to get people trapped in buildings that have been on fire for nearly 21 hours.

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Hundreds of people are missing. We've got reporters on the ground. We'll head back there. Still to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: We take you back live to Hong Kong where we are following breaking news. Authorities in that region have launched a criminal investigation into this high rise fire. It's killed at least 44 people. That number likely going up, nearly 300 others still missing. Firefighters still battling those flames. And what they're doing now also is trying to search for people who may be trapped on higher floors.

[00:20:03]

The leader of China, Xi Jinping, allocating two million yen or about $280,000 to rescue efforts. Chinese companies have announced donations totaling more than $6 million to help affected residents.

Now to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): This is an important press conference that is being held to let you know what we're all doing resisting this low down, dirty, no good, filthy president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: That was Congressmember Maxine Waters this week at a press conference in L.A. to fight back against President Trump's immigration policy. Congresswoman Waters joins us now for the first time here on THE STORY IS.

Welcome to the show. Great to see you.

WATERS: Thank you. Delighted to be here with you.

MICHAELSON: So that comment got a lot of attention.

WATERS: Yes. Yes.

MICHAELSON: You know, low down, dirty, no good, filthy president.

WATERS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Critics say that that's unhelpful, you know, makes the situation in the country worse, deepens the divide. What do you say?

WATERS: I don't care what they say. Let me tell you, the president of the United States calls everybody names. And he just said to a journalist, a woman, a journalist called a piggy. He called someone a big, fat slob.

MICHAELSON: The governor of Illinois.

WATERS: And so he's doing it all the time. He gets away with it. The media does not challenge him, does not resist him. And so, you know, I feel very comfortable and very free hitting him back and talking about what I think about him.

MICHAELSON: And I know the love is mutual between the two of you.

WATERS: I hardly think so. Yes.

MICHAELSON: We want to talk about a big issue, which is you're on the Financial Services Committee, ranking member on that.

WATERS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Focused on homelessness. One of the biggest issues in California.

WATERS: Yes. That's right.

MICHAELSON: And there's news this week the Trump administration wants to change something called the Continuum of Care.

WATERS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: This is the way a lot of nonprofits are funded around the country.

WATERS: That's right. That's right.

MICHAELSON: And the Trump administration says the way we're doing homelessness isn't working. And so we want to put some checks and balances on this. And so we've got a full screen. They basically want to take this program, which is currently funded at 86 percent, and move it down to 30 percent of all of these different programs to get people into permanent housing. They say homelessness isn't working. We got to change it. What say you?

WATERS: Well, they don't have a plan. They don't have anything better. Homelessness is a big problem in this country. In L.A. County, I think it's over about 70,000 people, 65 -- 70,000 people on the street in this country, maybe 700,000. Here we have something called LAHSA, and we send money from the federal government.

MICHAELSON: That's the L.A. Housing and Services -- yes.

WATERS: And the money comes from the state, from the county. Well, the county has separated now, in order to try and have an agency that understands what is happening in the city, in the county, and fund that money and give that money to nonprofits to be able to deal with the problems that we have. You know, we just don't have enough affordable housing. And so we had a program to get people off the street at one point where they had hotel keys. We're out of those now.

And so Trump really is about cutting. He's about destroying what the Democrats and what we have put together over years in order to deal with many of these problems. But the problem now is not so much that the Continuum of Care doesn't work. We need to have more affordable housing, period. And that's what Democrats are working on.

MICHAELSON: So the Trump administration says we're not just all about cutting, but this program isn't working. The fact that we have all these housing -- homeless people is an example of a homeless industrial complex that keeps taking money, and that instead of doing what's called housing first, which is getting people towards permanent housing, that we need to do shelter first, which is just get people in a roof, under a roof, off the streets. What say you to that?

WATERS: Well, here's what I say. Trump has come in and he's talking about nothing works. And you're writing stories and the media is, you know, helping to talk about he's changing America. This man is undermining all of the programs that have helped people to have a decent quality of life. And so that's not a real plan. All they want to do is cut and put people back on the street, because philosophically, they do not believe that the government has the responsibility. They think that everybody should be able to pick themselves up.

MICHAELSON: Right.

WATERS: And do for themselves. And that's the problem that we're dealing with.

MICHAELSON: So 20 states are now suing to try to stop this from happening, including California and New York.

WATERS: Yes.

[00:25:03]

MICHAELSON: If this goes through, if those lawsuits don't work, what does that actually mean for the people of Los Angeles? What are the -- what happens on the streets?

WATERS: Well, first of all, let me tell you that the Democrats are filing amicus briefs on all of these lawsuits that they are doing and the judges are backed up, but they're listening to what we're saying. And so if the Republicans have their way, they will cut seriously housing. As a matter of fact, Section Eight Housing, that's in HUD, will be cut. That will put people back on the street.

They don't have a real plan. Their only plan is to cut housing and to do away with the assistance to those who they think should be able to take care of themselves and not depend on the government.

MICHAELSON: I want to ask a question about your future.

WATERS: Yes. Yes.

MICHAELSON: So, Nancy, Nancy Pelosi, your colleague who served with for a very long time, recently announced that she's not going to be running for reelection to put forward a new generation. As we know you're in your 80s. Have -- what are your thoughts in terms of reelection? Have you thought how are you thinking about that issue?

WATERS: Well, I'm thinking that there's much to be done. I'm looking at the work that I've done over the years, the successes that I've had, the kind of supports that I've given to all of the people in this country to make sure that we have a consumer financial protection bureau that's not ripping them off, and that we're dealing with junk fees, and we're dealing with credit card fees, and we're dealing with our service members who are absolutely, you know, confronted by others who are coming on their bases to give them phony products and to give them payday loans.

I love the work that I'm doing. I'm very good at it. And I think that I have more to do. And I'm not opposed to younger people running for office. I'm not opposed to them running against me, but they got to be better than me. That's it. And the people will decide that.

MICHAELSON: So basically you're saying I'm running. If you want to get in there, beat me.

WATERS: Yes. That's right. Absolutely. You got it.

MICHAELSON: OK. It's Thanksgiving week. What are you most grateful for?

WATERS: I am grateful, first of all, that I'm able to wake up every morning, that I'm healthy and that I can work, and I can be of service to this country. I'm grateful not only for my health, but I'm grateful that I'm able to help others. You know, in addition to my work that I do with public policy creation, et cetera, this past week, I've been on the street and I've been to the food banks, and I've helped to get food delivered.

I've been to, you know, service organizations helping to pass out food. And I've been able to talk with people and give them instructions about what they can do to connect with resources that are so desperately needed. And so I'm grateful that I'm able to be of service to my community, and I'm grateful that I have a wonderful family. I have two wonderful children, and I have two wonderful grandchildren.

And now I have a great granddaughter, and I'm just so pleased and proud that they're well, they're doing well. They're helping others. And they come with the philosophy that I'm very proud of. And that is we have a responsibility not only to ourselves, but to our neighbors and to our community and to others.

MICHAELSON: Well, Congresswoman, thank you for your decades of service to our community. And Happy Thanksgiving to your family, especially your great granddaughter.

WATERS: Well, thank you. Yes, thank you very much. And you have a good Thanksgiving also.

MICHAELSON: Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming in.

WATERS: All right. Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Just ahead, more on that breaking news out of Washington, where two National Guard troops were shot in a targeted attack Wednesday afternoon. Could this mean a change to our immigration policy? David Sanger live on our set next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: We continue to follow breaking news. A live picture once again from Hong Kong, where this firefight is continuing.

[00:34:00]

Firefighters there working to reach anyone who may still be trapped in that high-rise that caught fire nearly 21 hours ago. At least 44 people have been killed, nearly 300 others unaccounted for.

Crews say extreme temperatures inside that building and falling debris are making it hard to get anybody who may have survived.

Experts are also raising concerns about the building's structural integrity. Some concerns that that building may collapse.

Hundreds of residents are now looking for someplace to stay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON KONG, RESIDENT (through translator): I'm devastated. There are so many neighbors and friends. I don't know what's going on anymore. All the apartments are just burning. I don't know what to do. I hope the government can help us to settle down after this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Meanwhile, President Trump may have backed off his Thanksgiving deadline for a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine, but he is still pushing ahead in his efforts to try to stop the fighting there.

The U.S. president says special envoy Steve Witkoff is set to travel to Moscow for more negotiations as soon as next week.

[00:35:05]

And he is also defending Witkoff after Bloomberg published a transcript of an October call between Witkoff and a top aide to Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

According to that transcript, Witkoff counseled the aide on how Putin should approach a call with Trump and even encouraged the Russian official to have Putin speak with Trump before Ukrainian President Zelenskyy held talks with the U.S. president at the White House.

That transcript has caused concern among some Republican lawmakers, including Don Bacon, who wrote, quote, "It's clear that Witkoff fully favors the Russians. He can't be trusted to lead negotiations. Would a Russian paid agent do less than he? He should be fired."

Joining me now here, live in studio in Los Angeles, is David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst and author of "New Cold Wars: China's Rise, Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West." David, of course, one of the top national security minds in the entire world.

It's an honor to have you on THE STORY IS for the first time.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, great to be here with you, Elex, and great to be here in studio in L.A.

MICHAELSON: So, when you hear about this idea of Steve Witkoff saying, this is what you should say, what goes through your mind in that?

SANGER: Well, the first is he wouldn't be the first one coaching world leaders and others about how to go deal with President Trump.

And you saw what happened to poor President Zelenskyy when he walked in, uncoached, in February.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

SANGER: Didn't look -- didn't look so good.

MICHAELSON: Didn't go well.

SANGER: That's right.

MICHAELSON: Wrong outfit, wrong comments.

SANGER: He came back with a different outfit and effusive praise of the president for we can't quite remember what. But that's exactly what Mr. Witkoff basically advised that President Putin do: say, Oh, wonderful job in Gaza. Got the agreement. You're a great peacemaker.

They just know how to go handle Trump.

The problem is, it comes across as if Witkoff is seriously in Russia's camp, when the United States has spent the past three years, until President Trump came in, basically backing the Ukrainians, because they were struggling democracy, who in the end of the day, were invaded by Russia. And we seem to have sort of lost that -- lost focus on that basic fact.

MICHAELSON: Do you think he actually is, though, in Russia's camp? And do you think he can be sort of an honest broker and get a deal done the way that he got a deal done in Gaza?

SANGER: Well, the first problem we have with this is, as I said, the U.S. has been allied, until President Trump came in, with the Ukrainians: supplied them with arms, intelligence. We're still supplying them with intelligence.

And so, the question is, do you really want to be the honest broker, or do you want to be defending Ukraine's interests and still trying to move toward a peace agreement?

And I think that's where there's a difference among the camps. You've got Mr. Witkoff trying, clearly, from this, to -- to help the Russians along.

Vice President Vance was very clear during the campaign that he really doesn't care what happens to Ukraine itself. He said that. He just wants to get out.

And yet, you have Marco Rubio, who finally had to take control of these negotiations, fly to Geneva this past weekend, sort of wrest back the portfolio and move that document, which read like it had been written in the Kremlin, to something more in the middle.

And now that's, into some degree, his biggest challenge, because it's pretty clear the Russians will not sign onto that document. And that's what Witkoff is going to run into when he walks into the Kremlin.

MICHAELSON: And then, the question is, which side does President Trump end up going on? Because sometimes he gives different answers depending on the day and the location. Meanwhile, he's making news tonight about what's happening in

Washington, D.C.

There's this shooting. The two National Guardsmen who were there, brought in by President Trump. And it is -- apparently, the suspect is from Afghanistan.

Now, President Trump is saying that all immigration cases from Afghanistan should be halted indefinitely. Does that make sense as a reaction from a national security perspective?

SANGER: Well, first, a huge tragedy. I go in and out of that -- that particular metro stop very often. It's right near my office in -- in Washington. I've seen these young National Guard who are there. They're doing what they were told to do, setting aside the question of whether the president was within his authorities, which is now being debated in -- in the courts.

So, awful tragedy, and you have to pray for these -- these two men and their families.

[00:40:03]

That said, the -- let's assume for a moment that the suspect here -- and he is still a suspect -- was exactly what we have heard: brought into the United States during a program during the Biden administration to bring Afghans here.

They were being brought here, because the vast majority of them were helping the U.S., the CIA, U.S. military during the Afghan war.

MICHAELSON: Right.

SANGER: And they were trying to make sure they weren't being retaliated against, or wouldn't be when the country was taken over by the Taliban.

You take some risk when you do that. And there was a lot of chaos, because everybody pulled out much faster than they should have.

During the first Trump administration, they didn't do a very good job of beginning to vet some of these -- these folks. The Biden people, when they came in, didn't do a much better one.

MICHAELSON: Right.

SANGER: And then they had to go do it in -- in a rush.

But then to turn around and say, we're going to stop all Afghans coming in, the question is, what's in our better interest: to show that the United States is going to protect those who help the U.S. forces there?

MICHAELSON: Right.

SANGER: But, you know, you're going to take risks with that. And that appears, tragically, to be what happened with this.

MICHAELSON: You think big-picture about foreign policy all the time. Can you talk about where you see this moment in our history as an inflection point? I know you're especially focused on a recent phone call from President Xi Jinping.

SANGER: Well, Xi Jinping called President Trump -- which is rare by itself. He doesn't usually initiate the calls -- to try to separate the U.S. from its Japanese ally after the new Japanese prime minister basically said, if there's an attack on Taiwan that's going to affect Japan's interests, Japan may have to go get involved.

And this really came down to the central question of the degree to which President Trump is willing to go defend traditional American allies and interests, whether it's involving Russia and Europe -- he cut the Europeans out of that discussion -- whether it's Taiwan or others.

What you have seen President Trump do in his first ten months in office is basically break many of the institutions and commitments that we had after World War II. Not all bad. Some of them were in need of being broken.

But what he hasn't done is explain what replaces that and what principles underlie that replacement. That it's not just a series of power politics.

I mean, his argument in Ukraine is Russia's stronger; therefore, has to be given land. In China and Taiwan, you can imagine that applying, as well.

And I'm not sure we've seen the new administration get to a point where people can say what it is the U.S. stands for today.

MICHAELSON: Or maybe it stands for whatever is the most beneficial deal in that moment.

SANGER: That -- that's right. But the U.S. over -- over its long history --

MICHAELSON: Right.

SANGER: -- has usually looked beyond the immediate moment.

MICHAELSON: David Sanger, happy Thanksgiving.

SANGER: Happy Thanksgiving to you, Elex.

MICHAELSON: For you and your family, as well.

SANGER: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: It's great to have you in SoCal.

SANGER: Great to be here.

MICHAELSON: We will be right back with more. You're watching a busy news night here on THE STORY IS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:48:12]

MICHAELSON: Back live to that breaking news in Hong Kong.

Authorities expect the death toll there to rise in the massive apartment block fire in that region. At least 44 people have been killed. Nearly 300 others are still missing.

Firefighters are battling isolated flames in several buildings, searching for people trapped on higher floors. It looks like they have made some progress on the fires there.

Officials believe the fire started in a building that was undergoing renovations, clad in bamboo scaffolding.

Now to other news. THE STORY IS technology. This week, President Trump signed an executive order, launching the Genesis mission regarding artificial intelligence.

The goal of the whole thing: to solicit private-sector and university partners to use their A.I. capability to help the government solve engineering, energy, and national security problems.

Here to talk about that and more is Chris Mattmann, the chief data and A.I. officer at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Chris, welcome to THE STORY IS for the first time.

CHRIS MATTMANN, CHIEF DATA AND A.I. OFFICER, UCLA: Elex, thanks for having me. Beautiful new set for a great guy. Thanks for having me here.

MICHAELSON: Thank you very much.

So -- so, how does Genesis work and why does it matter?

MATTMANN: Elex, this is a big deal.

Right now, you might have heard about Grok being used in the military and the government. That's one of the large language models. There's ChatGPT. There's others. There's A.I.

Largely thus far, it's only been purchased and used, but not applied to scientific problems and to the government's real problems with data.

Science data is difficult. It involves space and time. It might be materials engineering, bioinformatics, earth science. It's never been applied in that way.

So, the goal of the Genesis mission is basically a Manhattan Project 2.0 for science data. MICHAELSON: And -- and this is about the competition with other

countries, right? Because how is the U.S. doing on this compared to other places like China?

MATTMANN: You know, Eric Schmidt, who used to be the CEO of Google, published a report a few years ago, talking about how far the U.S. is behind in A.I. and especially with respect to China, with respect to applying it to government problems.

[00:50:11]

A lot of the things that we're concerned about -- ethics, who we're applying this to, collection of personal data -- it doesn't apply to some of our foreign adversaries as it does to us.

And so, it's critical and imperative now. And Michael Kratsios, who heads the OSTP -- OSTP is the Office of Science and Technology Policy for the White House. They're trying to turn the instrument internally to government problems.

MICHAELSON: And some of this is working with universities. You lead this effort at UCLA, one of the world's great universities.

What are you seeing on the ground when it comes to students? Gen Z, the way that they deal with A.I., as compared to maybe some of their millennial or Gen X professors.

MATTMANN: Yes, Elex, I've got one of them. I've got a teenager. You know, he's not at UCLA yet. Hopefully. Or, you know, maybe another great school, too.

But you know, what I'm seeing with them is that they're all A.I. fluent. But the challenge that we have is that they're encouraged to use A.I. tools, not as many students are actually taking it, and building the data, the necessary capabilities and everything. They know how to use a large language model, but not necessarily how to build one.

So, we're trying to basically shift that mentality at UCLA. We're saying, hey, you know what? Become a builder of A.I., not just a user of it. And to try and increase A.I. literacy from that perspective.

MICHAELSON: And -- and how -- what's the reaction to that?

MATTMANN: I mean, from the students, I think they all want to build things and be involved in something entrepreneurial.

From the faculty, we're seeing a lot of mixed results, but you can imagine that. You know, faculty last a long time. They're there. They're -- you know, it's difficult for them, also, to see how the students use A.I., especially in knowledge worker to write things, to do things, and to actually guard against them, maybe doing it in a way that they shouldn't be: for a test and things like that.

MICHAELSON: So, when people hear A.I., there's all sorts of different reactions. Some people are excited; some people are scared; some people are worried. What's the one word to describe the way you feel about A.I.?

MATTMANN: You know, for me, Elex, I see it as opportunity. For me, we're all -- it's not that -- I really love the phrase. It's not that you're going to be replaced by A.I., but there's a potential that you might be replaced by someone who uses A.I. to do your work.

And I actually really believe that. I believe that, you know, we can't stick our heads in the ground. It's a tool. It's one set of tools that we can use. It's not the only tool.

But it's something that, in the next 2 to 3 years, is going to be so transformative -- and it already is -- that we all have to see it as an opportunity.

MICHAELSON: Well, Chris, can't wait to have you back to help explain it more to us, because it's very -- my word is "confused." So, I need -- I need your help.

Happy Thanksgiving.

MATTMANN: Happy Thanksgiving.

MICHAELSON: To your great family, as well.

MATTMANN: Thank you so much.

MICHAELSON: Appreciate it.

We'll be right back, continuing to follow that breaking news. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:57:25]

MICHAELSON: Will you be watching football in the coming of hours? Well, millions of Americans will be tuning in before and after their turkey dinner. Andy Scholes explains why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS (voice-over): Family, food, and football. That's what Thanksgiving is all about.

Do you ever wonder why the Lions and Cowboys play every Thanksgiving? Well, it all started back in 1934.

The Detroit Lions were a brand-new team, struggling to fill their stadium, so owner George Richards came up with a brilliant idea. Host a game on Thanksgiving day and broadcast it nationwide on his radio network.

The Lions sold out that first game, and the tradition stuck.

Fast forward to 1966. Dallas wanted in. The Cowboys were still building their fan base, and general manager Tex Schramm figured a Thanksgiving game would put the Cowboys on the map.

And he was right. The ratings soared, and outside of a couple of years in the '70s, Dallas has been a Thanksgiving mainstay ever since.

So now, every year, Detroit kicks things off early. Dallas takes the late afternoon spot. And since 2006, the NFL has added a primetime game to make it a full day of football feasting from sunup to lights out.

This year's slate has two great divisional matchups: the Lions hosting the Packers in an NFC North division showdown. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens host the Bengals in the nightcap. And Patrick Mahomes will make his Thanksgiving day debut as he returns home to Texas to take on the Cowboys.

PATRICK MAHOMES, QUARTERBACK, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: It's about rebounding fast, trying to be better, even better this next week, going into a big environment, a big game, and trying to get that win. You know, it's going to be -- it's going to be a lot of fun going to Dallas and getting to play on Thanksgiving.

SCHOLES (voice-over): For my entire childhood, John Madden and Pat Summerall were the voices of Thanksgiving.

JOHN MADDEN, FORMER NFL COACH/FOOTBALL COMMENTATOR: It's fun. We're here. It's football. Turkey football. You can't beat that.

SCHOLES (voice-over): Starting in 1981, they began a run of calling Thanksgiving games together for two decades. And in 1997, they helped introduce the world to the turducken.

MADDEN: What a turducken is, is a de-boned duck, stuffed in a de-boned chicken, stuffed in a de-boned turkey with stuffing. Now you're talking.

SCHOLES (voice-over): Even Tom Brady loves him some turducken.

TOM BRADY, FORMER PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER: How did the duck and the chicken get roped into this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.

BRADY: They thought turkey was a Thanksgiving hog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that's good.

SCHOLES (voice-over): Madden introduced the players of the game, celebrating with a turkey leg back in 1989. And it's a tradition that is still going today.

From the Lions and Cowboys to the turkey legs and turducken, Thanksgiving football is more than a game. It's a holiday tradition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: What a great story, Andy. And that turducken felt a lot more authentically a part of John

Madden's diet than Tom Brady's diet. Doesn't it?

[01:00:00]