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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

ICE Agents Clash with Protesters in Minneapolis; Trump to Iranian Protesters, "Help is on Its Way"; Actors Timothy Busfield and Kiefer Sutherland Arrested; DOJ: No Basis To Investigate ICE Agent Who Killed Renee Good; Billionaires Ready To Flee California Amid Wealth Tax Proposal; Ultra-Endurance Athlete To Journey From Dead Sea To Everest. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired January 14, 2026 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:13]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michaelson live in Los Angeles. THE STORY IS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're firing the flash bangs again. I knew that was going to happen.

MICHAELSON (voice-over): THE STORY IS in Minneapolis, where there's new video of a clash between federal law enforcement and citizens.

THE STORY IS in Iran, where thousands of protesters are dead and the government is threatening to hang more of them.

THE STORY IS in New Mexico, where actor Timothy Busfield turned himself in and is vowing to fight child sex abuse charges.

And THE STORY IS from the Dead Sea to Mount Everest. Endurance athlete Charlie Engle here live to announce a new record breaking quest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from Los Angeles, THE STORY IS with Elex Michaelson.

MICHAELSON: The top story is in Minnesota, where protests continue after the death of Renee Good. U.S. Justice Department says there is, quote, "no basis" for a criminal investigation into the ICE agent who fatally shot her while she was driving away in her vehicle. At least six Minnesota prosecutors have now resigned after pressure from the Trump administration to shift the probe to the actions of Renee Good and those around her.

On Tuesday, President Trump warned that a, quote, "day of reckoning and retribution" is coming to Minnesota. In a Truth Social post he called ICE agents patriots as hundreds more of them are now arriving in Minneapolis.

Clashes between those agents and protesters are escalating across that city. A few blocks away from where Renee Good was killed another woman in another car was confronted by federal agents on Tuesday. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go! Go! Go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out the streets. Get out the streets.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am being picked up by police because I'm disabled. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up there. That's why I can't move.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let her go!

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just make you feel strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So CNN has reached out to find out what happened to that woman in the video. The Minneapolis police chief explains that his department is trying to manage altercations like the one you just saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're trying to do everything that we can to try and de-escalate situations, de-escalate some of the chaos that's happening on the street, and try and encourage everyone in our community to keep people safe and also encourage federal law enforcement.

If you're out here in our community, please perform in the way that we expect our law enforcement officers to perform their duties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So what's happening on the streets?

CNN's Ryan Young is in Minneapolis tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: Tensions continue to rise, especially when it comes to the idea of some of these protesters watching the ICE agents and Border Patrol agents enter a neighborhood. Today we saw how those two things could collide, and it got nasty pretty quickly. Look at this video. You can see the agents swarming into this neighborhood. You can see the people putting their bodies in the way. Flash bangs, pepper balls, and some of the agents were spread on people in that crowd.

We saw arrests, multiple agents on top of people. Some of the agents were spraying each other. And you have to consider the fact that in this city right now, there may be more Border Patrol and ICE agents than there are police officers in the city.

The people tell us they want to see more action, so they're happy that the -- not only is the state trying to fight back, but they're hoping the local authorities are somehow able to get some of these agents out of the area.

Behind us right now, you can see the vigilance here outside the federal building. And on top of that, there will be a vigil a little later on Tuesday night. People still are concerned about the memory of Renee Good.

Ryan Young, CNN, Minneapolis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Ryan, thank you.

A recent poll by Quinnipiac University shows a strong majority of registered voters disapprove of the deadly ICE shooting of Renee Good. 53 percent say the violent action was not justified. A court hearing set for Wednesday in the Minnesota lawsuit against the federal government's immigration enforcement. That suit is seeking a court order to halt the statewide immigration crackdown by DHS.

[00:05:00]

Now to the deadly crackdown on protests in Iran. A U.S. based human rights group now says more than 2400 protesters have been killed by security forces since late December, which is when anti-government demonstrations first began. The organization says at least 12 of those killed are under the age of 18. CNN cannot independently verify those numbers.

The near-total internet blackout is making it hard for information to get out of the country. The exiled son of Iran's last shah is urging the country's security forces to protect the protesters and to join them. And the president of the United States is urging Iranians to keep fighting against the regime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To all Iranian patriots, keep protesting. Take over your institutions if possible, and save the name of the killers and the abusers that are abusing you. You're being very badly abused. I say save their names because they'll pay a very big price. And I've canceled all meetings with the Iranian officials until the senseless killing of protesters stops. And all I say to them is help is on its way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: The U.S. State Department posted on social media that Iranian officials are planning to execute a 26-year-old protester on Wednesday. President Trump says the U.S. will, quote, "take very strong action if it does so." He has previously warned that that could include military options. The former defense secretary for Barack Obama, Leon Panetta, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm a very strong believer that when the president of the United States says something that the credibility of the United States rests on whether or not he follows through, and whether you agree or disagree, the fact is, the president told the Iranian people that help is on the way. And therefore, I think it's incumbent on the president to take some action here.

Now, it doesn't necessarily have to be a military strike. We've got cyber capabilities. We have covert operations capabilities. We have drone capabilities. We have sanctions that we can strengthen, but I think the United States credibility right now requires that the United States does something to show support for the protesters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Joining me live now, Behnam Ben Taleblou, who is a senior director of the Iran program at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. He just wrote a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed about this very topic. He joins me live right now from Washington.

Thanks so much for being with us. When President Trump says help is on the way, what does he mean?

BEHNAM BEN TALEBLOU, SENIOR DIRECTOR, IRAN PROGRAM, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Well, great to be with you, Elex. It's really at this point right now an open question. There's been commentary, I think, about 48 hours ago that the president was going to threaten tariffs against countries that would trade with the Islamic Republic, as well as with the United States. Conversely, we are doing -- we're having this conversation against the backdrop of 2025 where there was a military defeat last year.

The U.S. took out the regime's crown jewel of its nuclear program, and there was maximum pressure sanctions. But the X factor here is how is that going to affect the average Iranian protester? How is whatever kind of help the president can bring to bear going to put wind beneath the wings of the average Iranian protester here? And even if that does move into the military domain, how can military action or kinetic action pave the pathway forward for Iranian protesters?

And lastly, the real question back in Washington is how can the president nest whatever he does, economic, political, military, with respect to Iran, back into a larger Iran policy?

MICHAELSON: So answer your own question. How can it help?

BEN TALEBLOU: Well, first, it actually requires having a theory of victory. Just recently, I think this is the first time that the president articulated this. He said that it's all about winning. I mean, he may have said this before, but with respect to the Islamic Republic, his endgame was winning. That might mean actually flipping the script on the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism.

That might mean actually being able to empower the Middle East's most pro-American and most pro-Israeli population in the heartland of the Muslim world. But that actually means dispensing with some of the, you know, lockout or freeze out effect of our conversation here in this town about regime change, about providing meaningful support to the Iranian protesters, particularly on the cyber side, getting that country back online is key.

Iranians have been dying in the darkness over the past five and a half, six days. Upwards of several thousand, as you mentioned, have been killed. There's reports I've seen just recently as high as 12,000. But that means fundamentally the end state has to be pushing past an Islamic Republic of Iran because we can't get out of the Middle East. We can't deal with great power competition so long as we keep getting sucked back into a cycle of violence after cycle of violence because the arsonist is lighting a bunch more fires in the Middle East.

[00:10:07]

MICHAELSON: Well, President Trump has repeatedly warned against killing protesters. It's clear been a whole lot of protesters that have been killed. Now there's this threat of hanging protesters, which again President Trump is pushing back on.

Is there any difference between hanging somebody and killing them in the streets? And does the U.S. sort of risk lack of credibility if, after warning about killing protesters, the U.S. doesn't do anything?

BEN TALEBLOU: Well, I don't think this is the U.S. moving the red line here, but the fact that the regime has been killing protesters and now the regime is moving forward to hanging protesters means that, at least rhetorically, they were not deterred by those threats. I, for one, think, given President Trump's track record on Iran, they should really have a wake-up call here, given that six years ago this month, Trump pulled the trigger against the regime's chief terrorist, Qasem Soleimani.

And just six months ago, you know, President Trump took out the regime's major nuclear installations. Moving forward, however, it's an open question as to, again, how the president can put wind beneath the wings of Iranian protesters if, for example, there's targeting of what's left of the regime's nuclear facilities, protesters could end up going home. So again, it's all going to be about acting in a way that is actually seen, that is actually seen and perhaps most importantly and acutely felt as leveling the playing field between the protests in the street and the repressive state.

And that's the real question. It's not, is it about military intervention or economic intervention or sanctions or diplomatic pressure. It's how do you actually meaningfully support Iranian protesters? MICHAELSON: And lastly, it's been so hard to communicate with people

in that country. I know you're well-connected in that country. What are you hearing from people, if anything at all, on the ground right now?

BEN TALEBLOU: Well, just about 12 to 14 hours ago, for the first time in about five plus days, landlines again had somewhat been unblocked. There were calls, a lot of calls, I have to actually admit, going out of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Naturally I will not divulge the calls of friends and acquaintances and what have you in contacts here. But I will tell you this, that many were not going to be speaking as freely because they rightly assumed that the Islamic Republic was going to be listening in on those calls.

But what I have to tell you, looking in at the video, the imagery, the dribs and drabs that we get that still makes its way to social media, that still makes its way to some popular Persian language messaging applications, one can't help but feel a sense of respect and pride for the bravery of the Iranian people, who for 17 plus days now are going up against not just an internet blackout, but against the national security state armed to the teeth.

So whatever it is that the president is going to do, it's going to have to meaningfully level the playing field between the state and the street because the population is fed up and tired.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And unfortunately far too many of them have lost their lives in this fight as well.

BEN TALEBLOU: Absolutely.

MICHAELSON: Behnam Ben Taleblou, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. Appreciate it.

BEN TALEBLOU: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Now to the U.S. economy, President Trump teasing plans to bring down health care costs and housing prices. He says he'll announce some this week and others at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland next week. President spent Tuesday far from Davos in Michigan, first at a Ford plant in Dearborn, where he touted his efforts to bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.

Then he spoke to the Detroit Economic Club, where he rattled off a familiar series of claims, saying inflation has stopped, which it hasn't. Grocery prices are falling rapidly, which they're not, and the cost of prescription drugs is coming down by up to 600 percent, which is not really happening. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And now after less than 12 months in office -- this is the easiest speech to make. I have great people and all I'm doing is spewing off what the hell we've done. Right now I'm feeling pretty good, though, I will say. No, you're so lucky to be here. Under our administration, growth is exploding, productivity is

soaring. Investment is booming. Incomes are rising. Inflation is defeated. America is respected again like never before. The results are in and the Trump economic boom is officially begun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So the latest government data shows that inflation actually rose 2.7 percent in December compared to the prior year, which is slightly higher than expectations. Housing related inflation, sharply rising food prices and higher energy costs all contributed to that increase.

The vice president of the United States, J.D. Vance, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio are set to meet with the foreign ministers from Denmark and Greenland at the White House on Wednesday, but talks are expected to focus on the relationship between everybody. President Trump has repeatedly threatened to take over Greenland, which is currently a Danish territory, saying last Friday that if he's unable to make a deal the easy way, he'll do it the hard way.

The Danish foreign minister says the face-to-face meeting will allow everyone to look each other in the eye and actually talk about these things.

[00:15:06]

But on the eve of the talks, Greenland's leader had this blunt message for the president in a joint news conference with his Danish counterpart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, GREENLAND'S PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Greenland will not be a part of the USA. We choose the Greenland we know today, which is part of the kingdom of Denmark.

Now we are faced with a geopolitical crisis, and if we have to choose between the USA and Denmark here and now, we choose Denmark, we choose NATO, we choose the kingdom of Denmark and we choose the E.U.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Greenland's government says it will not accept a takeover by the U.S. under any circumstances.

A little bit lighter here, THE STORY IS sports. Another high profile coaching move in the NFL. Mike Tomlin, head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers for the past 19 years, is stepping down. His final game was last night as the Steelers were eliminated from the playoffs by the Houston Texans.

Tomlin has never had a losing season with the Steelers. He led the team to a Super Bowl, defeating the Arizona Cardinals back in 2008. He issued a statement, reading in part, quote, "It has been an absolute honor to lead this team. So I want to thank Steelers Nation, your passion, loyalty and high expectations represent what makes this franchise truly special."

Coming up, two Hollywood stars, director and actor Timothy Busfield and also Kiefer Sutherland under arrest. We'll have the latest. Segun is here with that. Plus later, an epic journey from the lowest place on earth to the highest point atop Mount Everest. Ultra endurance athlete Charlie Engle live here to talk about his latest expedition. It's an incredible story and will definitely inspire you. Stick around for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:21:22]

MICHAELSON: Director and Emmy winning actor Timothy Busfield is now in police custody on child sex abuse charges. He turned himself in to New Mexico authorities on Tuesday, just a few days after the Albuquerque Police Department issued a warrant for his arrest. There's his mug shot. He faces two counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor and one count of child sex abuse.

He's accused of inappropriately touching a young boy on the set of a TV series that he was directing, "The Cleaning Lady." In a video obtained by TMZ, Busfield said, quote, "I'm going to confront these lies. They're horrible. They're all lies."

Here with me live to talk about this and more is entertainment journalist Segun Oduolowu.

Segun, what happened here? What's sort of the main allegation here?

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: So what we know, Elex, is that in late 2024, Timothy Busfield is working as a director and an actor on "The Cleaning Lady," a FOX television show, where he comes into contact with these two boys. So they're twin boys. The boys make a statement to their mom that raises her antenna and she contacts a lawyer. The lawyer advises her to go seek a medical professional. After the medical professional examines the boys, now things start to unfold.

What he's been accused of, as you said, two counts of improper contact with minors and the child abuse in the state of New Mexico carries a mandatory minimum of three years. If he's found guilty, again, mandatory minimum, it could be more. He maintains his innocence. He surrendered himself to the police. But again, late 2024, surrendering himself in 2026. That time, we believe, is the police doing their due diligence, trying to find evidence of the accusation.

MICHAELSON: Because he's basically accused of tickling the boys inappropriately over their clothing, including potentially tickling their private parts. That's what the allegation is. He says that's, yes, there was some tickling on the set. It was a fun set, but there was nothing inappropriate.

Warner Brothers produced this show, which is, of course, our parent company as well. They put out a statement to the "L.A. Times" that said this, "The health and safety of our cast and crew is always our top priority, especially the safety of minors on our productions. We have been and will continue to cooperate with law enforcement."

And interestingly, Warner Brothers did their own investigation, right?

ODUOLOWU: Yes, Warner Brothers did their own investigation when this -- the allegations were first levied against Timothy and did not find anything that is separate from the police. The fallout has been an episode that Timothy was supposed to appear in for "Law and Order" episode. NBC has pulled that, and his wife, Melissa Gilbert, an actress herself, has taken -- has basically shut off her social media.

So patience to see this is -- these are serious allegations. We've seen the mug shot. The prosecutors are asking that he be held so we shall see.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And of course, a lot of folks know him from "The West Wing," from other shows over the years as well.

ODUOLOWU: Absolutely. Yes. "Field of Dreams," and movies. And again, he's an accomplished actor, character actor. But as you said, "West Wing" was super popular. "Field of Dreams" was super popular. He's a known entity.

MICHAELSON: And interestingly, he said that he drove himself 2,000 miles to Albuquerque to turn himself in. And then he recorded himself doing this video saying that I'm innocent. So we'll continue to follow that story.

Meanwhile, another well-known actor, Kiefer Sutherland, who so many people know as Jack Bauer from "24."

ODUOLOWU: Yes, "24."

MICHAELSON: Arrested yesterday not far from here in Hollywood involving a rideshare driver? What happened here?

[00:25:00]

ODUOLOWU: Yes, the star of "24," Kiefer Sutherland, has had a bad 24 hours. What is being alleged is an altercation with a rideshare driver that caused him to be arrested, spend the night in jail and be released today on $50,000 bond. What is playing unfortunately against Kiefer Sutherland is his own history. 1989 he was charged with a DUI. 2007 he served 48 days in prison for -- or 48 days in jail for a DUI and a violation of his probation.

And then in 2009, outside of the Met Gala, he head butted a designer, which those charges were later dropped by both sides. But he himself has said, I have an issue. The worst things in my life have happened due to alcohol.

MICHAELSON: Right.

ODUOLOWU: We do not know if alcohol was in play, but his history is what is tainting the way everyone is sort of looking at this until more information comes out.

MICHAELSON: Right. We have not seen any video from this.

ODUOLOWU: Not yet. No.

MICHAELSON: We don't know who the driver was, even what company they were working for or the -- but we do know that it caused him to spend time behind bars once again.

Why do you think all of this celebrity stuff matters?

ODUOLOWU: Actors acting badly is catnip for Hollywood -- for stories, for gossip sites, for social media. And we see so much of it like, to be fair, this is our royal family. We don't have that in America except for our celebrities and celebrity culture. Whether it's the TMZs of the world that are always there or the paparazzi, we eat it up. And so they live in a bubble. And when that bubble bursts, we're the first ones to hear the pop.

MICHAELSON: Yes. So there is certainly an argument that the Trump family is kind of like the royal family of America right now.

ODUOLOWU: So you're saying we have an elected king?

MICHAELSON: I'm not saying that.

ODUOLOWU: That's another segment. We'll do that in another segment. Different segment.

MICHAELSON: Yes. All right, Segun. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

ODUOLOWU: Always a pleasure.

MICHAELSON: The fallout continues over that ICE agent who was killed by -- the ICE agent killing a Minneapolis woman, I should say. The Trump administration is now blaming her, causing a shakeup in the state's prosecutor's office.

Our political panel here next to discuss that controversy and more. Plus, this wealth tax coming to California. John Iadarola and Joel Pollack next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:06]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to "The Story Is." I'm Elex Michaelson.

Let's take a look at today's top stories. A source tell CNN Venezuela has freed at least four American political prisoners. It's the first known release of U.S. detainees under interim Venezuelan president, Delcy Rodriguez.

Her government began freeing people last week in what it called a gesture to seek peace. Rights group says, so far, only 56 of more than 800 political detainees have been released. The U.S. Supreme Court appears poised to side with two states that ban transgender athletes playing on girls' sports teams. Justices heard arguments about whether Idaho and West Virginia are violating the Constitution or anti-discrimination law. A decision expected by the end of June.

The creator of the popular "Dilbert" comic strip has died. Scott Adams was 68. He announced in May he had been diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer. "Dilbert" became a hit in the 1980s and ran until 2023.

It poked fun in everyday indignities of office work with many readers could relate to.

We've got a political panel here tonight to discuss some of the day's biggest topics. John Iadarola is host and executive producer of the Damage Report on TYT Network, The Young Turks. And Joel Pollak is the opinion editor for the "California Post," which is brand-new, former senior editor-at-large for Breitbart News.

Gentlemen, welcome back to "The Story is." Thanks for being here.

JOHN IADAROLA, HOST AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, THE DAMAGE REPORT ON TYT: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Let's start with the -- the big issue of immigration. Yet today, another video showing the way that ICE officers interacted with somebody in Minnesota. Let's show that video.

We see this woman being essentially refusing to get out of her car and then being pulled forcibly out of her car. Don't know that much about her. Don't know much about the background of what happened here.

Although, you know, the images here are -- are tough for a lot of people to watch.

John, on -- on a human level, sort of what's your reaction to seeing this?

IADAROLA: Eventually, I get to an intellectual place, but I start off and stay for quite a while in an emotional place of absolute rage that something like this would be happening for so long in an American city and has already happened in other American cities. It's absolutely reprehensible and utterly un-American what's happening. I hate to see it.

The experience that she had, she appeared to make the mistake of thinking that she was living in America and she could simply drive to a medical appointment or to her job. We're all learning what sort of country we live in.

But that video also is, I think, good evidence of why someone like Renee Good might have thought maybe I should drive away because you see what happens when you don't.

There seems to be nothing you can do that stops you from being brutalized, being detained, being beaten and left outside of a Target.

And that video, I think, hits people pretty hard, especially because it's -- it's another young woman. But there are so many of these videos being generated every single day. And so I'm sure tomorrow we'll bring some new horror.

[00:35:04]

MICHAELSON: Is that a fair reaction, Joel?

JOEL POLLAK, OPINION EDITOR, CALIFORNIA POST: I hadn't seen the video before. And do we know anything about the person in the video? Do you know what happened beforehand?

MICHAELSON: Right.

POLLAK: I mean, with the Renee Good video, people saw one snippet, but they didn't see the full interaction.

And you have a First Amendment right, but you don't have the right to block a road, to block law enforcement. And people can judge me as they may, but I don't feel anything about this.

I feel like we have laws. The laws are enforced. And actually, if local police departments and state authorities were cooperating with the federal government, then more of these interactions wouldn't be as volatile as they are.

So I can't say anything about that video without knowing more about it, but I'm sorry for people who have to go through hardship.

I think probably they are rounding up more people who are not otherwise breaking the law because they have to go into neighborhoods to retrieve and arrest people who are serious criminals because they're not getting the cooperation from local law enforcement. So I -- I feel --

MICHAELSON: You -- you don't feel for like Renee Good's family on a human level to just watch her get shot?

POLLAK: No, I do. But I don't feel that there's any great emotional response to ICE doing what ICE does. I mean, this is what Democrats wanted in the 1990s. This is what our laws say ICE has to do.

And unfortunately, this is the situation that not having a border policy, other than open borders, has put us in as a country. We can't have millions of people in the country illegally. There has to be some kind of internal enforcement.

And I think it's very hard to be an ICE agent, hard to work for these agencies and be demonized constantly. I think they're doing the best they can.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And -- and, John, what do you make to Joel's point that their local governments could honor detainers and work with ICE behind bars to target a lot of criminals. They could cooperate in a different way. These are the laws of the land passed by Congress and who's supposed to enforce these laws but them?

IADAROLA: I -- I think it's a good question. I would love to see local law enforcement get more involved. I think there's been a lot of evidence over the past week that they should be out there protecting the people of their area from these invading forces.

I think it would have been great to have some police there helping to stop ICE from harassing Renee Nicole Good. She might well still be alive if that had happened.

I think it's all well and good to say that this is what ICE is supposed to do. Yes, ICE is supposed to do something abstractly, zoomed out a mile, you know, away, something like this, but ICE has not always had, as J.D. Vance says, a policy of going door to door.

We don't often see people being asked on American streets. American citizens being told to present your papers. I don't carry my passport with me everywhere I go and I don't want to live in America where I have to.

ICE wasn't doing this two years ago, four years ago. And even in the '90s, I agree with you, there have been plenty of Democrats that have wanted a vigorous ICE that might do stuff just like that. I disagree with those Democrats the same way I disagree with Republicans pushing for that.

POLLAK: Well, what does it look like when local law enforcement opposes ICE being in a community? I mean, are you suggesting that they should draw their weapons and have a fight? Who gets to be here, who doesn't? I mean, that's civil war.

I mean, is that what we're looking at that state and local authorities that don't want to work with ICE are going to confront with their weapons, ICE agents and federal immigration enforcement? Is that where we are?

I mean, it seems excessive. It seems unnecessary because these are the laws of the land. Our Constitution says that the federal government has authority over immigration.

I think that unfortunately, some of the rhetoric is taking us in that direction. I don't think that's what anybody wants though. I don't think that if it came to that, people would be happy to see that happen, but that is how some Democrats are talking.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Meanwhile, another topic now. Democrats fighting in the state of California over a concept of a wealth tax.

Some union leaders want to put this on the ballot. It would essentially be a five percent tax on people who make over a billion dollars, a one-time tax for them.

We have seen some of those billionaires already starting to leave the state to move their money elsewhere so that they don't have to pay it.

Governor Newsom is opposed to this. Says long-term, it's bad because this state is so reliant on rich people's income to fund basically everything that happens in this state. Your reaction to this concept.

POLLAK: Well, this sort of thing has never worked anywhere. It's been tried. I mean, it's not just a tax because when you say tax people, think about the kind of taxes we pay in the ordinary course of business. We pay income tax. We pay sales taxes.

This is wealth confiscation. This is basically saying, OK, what are your assets and what's five percent of what you own? You might have paid taxes on that already.

But if you have assets in a company, shares, if you're a founder of a company, maybe you have to sell those shares. Maybe you have to give up ownership of your company just to generate the cash to pay the five percent tax.

[00:40:07]

So it's really counterproductive. And frankly, it's socialists or almost communist. It's going to ruin the California economy.

And it ruins the idea of who we are in California, a place where people can come and innovate and live the dream and become wealthy, yes, but become wealthy by providing things of value, that things that make other people's lives better.

And if the figures are to be believed, we've seen a lot of numbers. But if there's $2 trillion of wealth in the hands of California billionaires, and $1 trillion has already left the state, you've already lost half the tax revenue that you were going to pull in from this tax.

And --

MICHAELSON: Yes.

POLLAK: And I think the governor opposes it, but what has he done to stop it from getting to this point? Because it's one thing to say you oppose something, but it's on the ballot. And the reason --

MICHAELSON: Well, it's not on the ballot yet.

POLLAK: Well --

MICHAELSON: They're trying to write. (INAUDIBLE) a thousand signatures. We'll see.

POLLAK: But they'll -- they'll get the signatures. You know, they -- they -- they have the companies that go around and stand outside the grocery stores. No. They'll get the signatures. So then once it's on the ballot.

California voters are interesting because they don't just automatically vote for everything that's --

MICHAELSON: Especially tax increases. POLLAK: Yes. But -- but I think the billionaires who have left aren't taking their chances and it's retroactive so that if this passes, it goes back a couple years.

MICHAELSON: Your reaction real quickly.

IADAROLA: Yes. So, look, wealth tax can be constituted in a lot of different ways. This is a very specific thing where it wants to be this one-time thing at this certain amount. I have no idea where I to be advising him if this is how I would do it necessarily.

But I think that the people who are pushing for this feel like we've been put into a pretty desperate position where the rich have come up with so many ways over the past couple of decades to evade paying their taxes, to evade actually investing in our country. And they've been assisted.

Every time a Republican gets elected, another four to $5 trillion goes out the door in tax cuts in individual taxes, in corporate taxes.

And I think more and more people, especially as they're being economically crunched, just feel like the people who have been doing the best, especially the past few years, are not actually contributing.

And I have no idea if this is the best way to get them to finally contribute. Maybe it's not, maybe it is counterproductive. Clearly something has to be done.

MICHAELSON: Before we go, I want to give Joel, you, an opportunity to weigh in on the loss of Scott Adams, who I know is a good friend of yours. Somebody you're writing a biography on.

POLLAK: Right, right.

MICHAELSON: And what do you want people to know about his life?

POLLAK: Well, in your introduction, you talked about his work with "Dilbert." That's how he became famous and successful.

But he also became an author who provided incredible business advice. He had this fantastic book, which if you really want to get into the heart of his philosophy, "How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big." It's an amazing book.

And then he started getting into political commentary. And he predicted -- before he really knew much about the political world, he predicted that Donald Trump would win the Republican nomination and then the presidency, at a time when nobody thought that was possible.

Then he started predicting other political events. And people started tuning into his daily live stream, which was called "Coffee with Scott Adams." And he would offer his reflections on the news of the day, but he also offered advice. He created a whole online world of classes, how to succeed at various things in your life. And people loved him because he gave so much of his time to them. People's lives were changed because of advice that he gave, about exercise, about quitting alcohol, quitting drugs, moving ahead with a business idea, getting a job, getting married.

And he was just an incredibly positive person. And this whole idea was that you could reframe elements of your experience to understand them in a more positive light.

And he shared his struggle with cancer with millions of people every day. And in a way, he reframed mortality. And he faced it with a kind of joy.

I asked him in the last few days before he died, are you scared of death? And he said he wasn't. He just wasn't scared of death. And that he had lived a fantastic life. And the only sadness was that he had to say goodbye to people who he loved so much.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And he felt like he lived a life well-lived. So we send our condolences to you and to Scott's family. And I know there's so many people we know that have lost their life to cancer. It's such a horrible thing.

But we appreciate both of you being here tonight. Thank you so much --

IADAROLA: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: -- for sharing your perspective.

We'll be right back, more of "The Story Is." Still ahead, including a very inspiring story. Stay with us.

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[00:45:56]

MICHAELSON: Ultra-endurance athlete Charlie Engle is gearing up for an epic journey. He is aiming to travel from the lowest place on earth, the shore of the Dead Sea, to the highest point, the peak of Mount Everest.

To do this rare feat, he'll need to swim, run, paddle, cycle, and climb his way across thousands of miles of terrain, more than five vertical miles in altitude. The 4.5 month journey, part of his goal to become the first athlete to track from the lowest point to the highest point on every continent.

Charlie Engle joins us here live. He's in one place right now. In addition to being an ultra-endurance athlete and motivational speaker, he's also the author of the book "Running Man: A Memoir" of ultra- endurance.

Charlie, welcome to "The Story Is."

CHARLIE ENGLE, ULTRA-ENDURANCE ATHLETE: Thank you so much. Glad to be here. MICHAELSON: So we start with a basic question. Why are you doing this?

ENGLE: Yes. That is -- that is the question I asked myself quite often, you know.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

ENGLE: You know, 33 years ago, I found my way into sobriety after about a decade of shenanigans and struggle, real struggle, as -- as many people do.

[00:50:00]

And running was this thing that I had always done even during those bad years. And when I took away the -- the drinking and the drugs, running just really struck home for me.

And I started running races and long, long races and figured out that that endurance gene that I that I also had as an addict really translated well to athletics.

MICHAELSON: Yes. I mean, because essentially you were a drug addict, right?

ENGLE: Yes. Of course.

MICHAELSON: And so you were at the lowest point of your life and this is some symbolism here.

ENGLE: Yes.

MICHAELSON: You were going from the lowest point on the earth to the highest point and -- and was running basically a comparable addiction, like, that was the addiction you're getting.

ENGLE: In a sense. In a sense. Although, you know, as I like to say, you know, I never sold my car to enter a marathon. But, you know, I did that occasionally, you know, for drugs.

And so the -- the comparison is fair, but with drugs and alcohol are about hiding, about being invisible and anybody who's ever run, even a, you know, a marathon, like, there's nowhere to hide. You are fully visible. That bright light is shining on you and you're -- you're present to feel everything.

MICHAELSON: So, what are the logistics? How do you actually do this journey?

ENGLE: Man, you picked the -- you picked the hardest part of this, zero in on because people always think, oh, training is the hard part. No, the logistics.

You know, because this is a four and a half month expedition. I'm going to free dive, run, bike, mountain bike, sale, climb. And so the logistics of the different countries, permissions, getting help in those countries, doing the specific training for the different legs is all -- it's a lot to cram into.

Right now, I have about almost a year still before I start January of 27, but this year is going to be packed with five or six other events in preparation.

MICHAELSON: Yes. I mean, because how -- how -- how do you even go about training for something that nobody's ever trained for before?

ENGLE: Yes. Well, the good news is I'm -- I'll be 64 years old when I do this. And I say that's the good news because the -- the -- the 20 year younger version of me would have done nothing but train all the time.

And this version of me at this point understands that age is actually an advantage for me. It's not a disadvantage. It's my experience allows me to mentally be able to do this and to know how to not quit and to know that some days you're just going to have to dig in and get through the hardest parts.

MICHAELSON: And your sons are going to be part of this too. We got some photos of them, right?

ENGLE: Yes. Yes. My two boys, Brett and Kevin, are going to be part of this and they're 33 and 31 at this point, both good athletes. And there's Brett.

And, honestly, when they were younger, I was doing these big adventures all around the world.

And -- and the honest truth was they told me they would have liked to have had me around more sometimes. And so one of the things -- this is a -- a healing journey for us a bit too.

MICHAELSON: So you were featured about 20 years ago and -- and something called Running the Sahara, which was nominated -- or narrated by Matt Damon, a documentary --

ENGLE: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- at that time. Here's a clip of you surprisingly running the Sahara.

Is this going to be a big documentary production too? What's going on with that?

ENGLE: It is. It is. I mean, always -- you know, storytelling is the whole part. People -- this is an athletic feat, but honestly, how much watching me run across a desert or a bike can you really watch.

So it's way more about interaction with cultures. I consider it cultural exploration where, you know, I'm going to go in and I'm going to meet people. I'm going to talk to them and see how they live.

And I've partnered with Charity: Water, which is one of the top charity, you know, charities in the world, quite honestly. But they are the premium clean water nonprofit in the world. MICHAELSON: Sure.

ENGLE: And they are -- what they are, are brilliant storytellers. And -- and water is a problem across all the regions that I'll be, you know, I'll be crossing. So together, we're going to solve some problems too.

MICHAELSON: What's the most important thing you want people to learn from your story from watching this?

ENGLE: You know, got to love that question. Thank you. It's -- it's really what happens to us isn't nearly as important as what you do about it. You know, we all have struggles. We live in this crazy world right now and it's easy to get fixated on all of that craziness or even get attached to long-term goals in such a way that you -- you find yourself never getting where you want to go.

And I think that the important piece for people to remember is it really is the old mantra of like 12 step recovery, which is one day at a time, you know. The only miles I can run when I'm out there are going to be the ones right in front of me.

So during the hardest of times, if I can just focus on, you know, getting to the end of that day and knowing that the next day I get to do it again, that will be a victory.

MICHAELSON: Well, it's an amazing, amazing story. Congratulations and people can follow along. It's amazing to see you sitting down and to see you.

Can you relax?

ENGLE: Not my natural state.

MICHAELSON: Can you relax? Can you just chill out --

[00:55:00]

ENGLE: Not my natural -- it's --

MICHAELSON: -- on a Sunday?

ENGLE: It's hard. It's hard.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

ENGLE: It's hard.

MICHAELSON: All right, Charlie. Good luck.

ENGLE: A real pleasure. Thank you.

MICHAELSON: I'm excited to follow along.

ENGLE: Thank you. MICHAELSON: Still to come. A visit from space. The final frontier. I'll ask actress, Gina Yashere, about the newest entry into the Star Trek universe, what it's like celebrating 60 years of Trek. She joins me on set, talk about the brand-new show debuting this week.

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