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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Mark Zuckerberg Testifies About Social Media's Impact on Children; Verdict Expected in Ex-South Korean President's Trial; Eight Skiers Killed, One Missing in California Avalanche; U.S., Mexican Officials Watch for Clues in Nancy Guthrie Case; Bernie Sanders Pushes for Billionaire Tax in California; Democrats Plan Rally to Counter Trump's State of the Union; California Lawmakers Challenge Wasserman's Role at LA28; Can the U.S. Copy Denmark's Vaccine Policy? Aired 12-1a ET
Aired February 19, 2026 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: That's all for us tonight. I'll see you here again tomorrow. "THE STORY IS WITH ELEX MICHAELSON" is next.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson, live in Los Angeles.
Tonight the top story is big tech on trial. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg on the stand right here in Los Angeles. I'll speak to a reporter who was in the room for that testimony.
THE STORY IS in Iran. A source tells CNN the U.S. military is prepared to strike the country as early as this weekend. President Trump now weighing his options. He's yet to make a final call.
And THE STORY IS your health. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us around Denmark to find out why some Americans think their health care model is worth following.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Los Angeles, THE STORY IS with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: We begin with a big question happening at a trial in Los Angeles. Is social media addicting? And what should social media companies do because of it?
Mark Zuckerberg taking the stand right here today. You see the video there. That testimony could lay the groundwork for hundreds of other cases. The Meta CEO was grilled for more than five hours about tech addiction, how social media affects kids, and whether platforms are deliberately trying to get kids addicted.
This is the first time that Zuckerberg has testified before a jury. He's a witness, he's not a defendant, and said that he believes he has handled the safety of young users in a, quote, "reasonable way." His company Meta, which owns Instagram, is one of the defendants in the lawsuit along with YouTube. The suit was brought by a young woman who says that she became
addicted as a child causing all sorts of mental health problems. Her lawyer pressed Zuckerberg on age verification measures. There are also tense exchanges about whether Meta tried to maximize users' time spent on the app and over Instagram's decision to allow beauty filters.
Some parents traveled across the country for this trial.
CNN's Karin Caifa has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARIN CAIFA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg on Wednesday arriving at the Los Angeles Superior Court House to testify in a landmark trial about tech addiction.
Mark, do you have a message to the parents?
(Voice-over): Among those awaiting Zuckerberg's arrival parents calling for accountability for Meta following years of concerns about the impact of Meta owned Facebook and Instagram on youth mental health and safety.
JULIANNA ARNOLD, FOUNDING MEMBER, PARENTS RISE!: They take a vulnerable child. All kids are vulnerable. Their self-esteem and what girl's face, especially on these platforms, is horrifying. To have to go through that and to really has created such a huge mental health crisis in this country.
CAIFA (voice-over): In the Los Angeles trial, Meta and YouTube are accused of intentionally designing addictive features that hooked a now 20-year-old woman named in court documents only as Kaylee as a child harming her mental health. TikTok and Snapchat were also named in the lawsuit. They settled before trial. Former Facebook employee turned whistleblower Frances Haugen says Zuckerberg's testimony about what Meta has known about the risks of its platforms on young people puts a lot on the line for his company.
FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: If they take responsibility, then they're going to have to change their business model and how they do business.
CAIFA (voice-over): Meta argues it was Kaylee's difficult family life, not social media, that led to her struggles. YouTube has also denied the lawsuit's claims.
In Washington, I'm Karin Caifa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Joining me live now is Bloomberg tech reporter Riley Griffin. She covers all things Meta, full time, and she was in the courtroom when all this played out.
Riley, welcome to THE STORY IS for the first time. What was it like in court? RILEY GRIFFIN, TECH REPORTER, BLOOMBERG: The air was taut. It was an
intense, highly anticipated day today, with Zuckerberg testifying before a jury for the first time about teens' mental health. He walked into the room rather inconspicuously, but once he took the stand he was a little bit nervous. He was fiddling with his water, with his eyes. It was a -- it was a tense room, particularly given grieving parents were there as well.
MICHAELSON: I mean, Aaron Sorkin wrote a whole movie about the fact that Mark Zuckerberg has been socially awkward. "The Social Network." I mean, did you see some of that on the stand as well?
GRIFFIN: Yes. And in fact Zuckerberg, one of his lighter moments, admitted to that, conceded to that, said, he's not the best in these settings and he doesn't like media. And so that actually was a moment of levity where he had some laughter.
MICHAELSON: Could you tell how the jury was reacting to him?
GRIFFIN: The jury had poker faces. Honestly, there wasn't a lot to read there. Perhaps more notable was that Kaylee herself was in the room.
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She has been absent from the courtroom until now.
MICHAELSON: This is the plaintiff.
GRIFFIN: This is the plaintiff. And she was in the direct line of vision of Zuckerberg and often referred to.
MICHAELSON: So he had to look at her during that entire time, which is interesting, and we remember when he was -- had to testify before Congress, at one point, he turned back and there were a lot of folks who said that they were victims of social media, that he had to address as well.
So what would you say was his weakest moment of the day?
GRIFFIN: Well, the plaintiff's lawyers attempted to pin down decisions that Zuckerberg personally had made that affected youth health. One of those was around beauty filters as you mentioned. They pointed to communications where Zuckerberg had made a decision to allow certain beauty filters, despite pleas from Facebook and Meta employees not to do so. So that was a low, actually pointing to a decision that Zuckerberg had made.
MICHAELSON: And what is a beauty filter for people that may not know?
GRIFFIN: A beauty filter is a filter that goes on Instagram. It allows you to overlay on a photo to improve a person's features. This is something that experts, academics, and otherwise internal folks at the company have said contributes particularly harmful effects to teenage girls who have relied on them. MICHAELSON: So if you're 11 or 12 and you're using a beauty filter, it
could make you feel insecure. You're not supposed to be on the app anyways. But that was part of what they talked about as well, that all these kids that weren't supposed to be on the app are on the app.
What would you say is the strongest moment?
GRIFFIN: The strongest moment I thought was when Zuckerberg said that only 1 percent of the company's revenue is generated from the teenage cohort, that this is not a meaningful business opportunity for them. And so they'd rather create value for teens than try to -- try to reap the business opportunities there.
MICHAELSON: Mark Zuckerberg is one of the most important figures of the last several decades. If you think about the way that Facebook and now Meta has changed the world over, unbelievable.
Talk about this in terms of the Mark Zuckerberg story and how today fits into that, how this chapter in his life story will be written.
GRIFFIN: Yes. Well, Mark Zuckerberg, as of today, is the fifth richest man in the world. His wealth was something that was brought up in the courtroom and was a bit contentious. But Mark Zuckerberg had a chance to tell his own story. He talked about the history of creating this product. He talked about iterating, about having made some mistakes early on, but learning over time on how to improve the product.
But what we haven't seen is a huge body of research on some of these newer tools. Often by the time we're talking about this in the courtroom, the products are still fresh. We don't have evidence yet conclusive about what the effects of teen mental health actually is for those who use this. And so this is a bellwether trial that is going to set precedent for thousands of cases to come. And it really grapples with that question.
MICHAELSON: Yes, and it really is remarkable. You think about this, the fact that he's sitting there having to answer these questions. And for some of the folks there that in itself is a win to have him actually there.
Riley Griffin, thank you so much. Hopefully this is the first of many appearances here on THE STORY IS. Appreciate your hard work.
GRIFFIN: Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: Now THE STORY IS in the Middle East, where the U.S. military is prepared to strike Iran as early as this weekend. Top national security officials met Wednesday in the White House Situation Room, but sources say President Trump is yet to make a final decision on the issue and that he has privately argued both for and against military action and is pulling his various advisers about what he should do.
According to new satellite imagery, Iran is rapidly fortifying several of its nuclear facilities. Photos from concrete and large amounts of soil being used to bury key sites in recent weeks. Here's what Democratic Congressman Jim Himes told CNN's Anderson
Cooper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): The president has now conducted a military attack on Caracas, which went flawlessly, and he's conducted a military attack on the tunnels. You know, the nuclear infrastructure in Iran. That also went flawlessly. So right now the president believes that he can do this stuff without much risk, which is, by the way, a very dangerous frame of mind because there's a lot of risk involved.
I think that both the United States and the Israelis are aware of the fact that the Iranians are doing carefully what they can to sort of restore what was damaged in the initial attacks, and so, yes.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: They are doing that, they're doing what they can to restore it?
HIMES: Yes, yes. Look, they're clearing tunnels. They're restoring electricity. They're doing stuff in tunnels that we can't see. So, I mean, I think they're probably doing everything they can to try to rebuild what was destroyed a number of months ago. So when you say imminent, is it this week? I don't know the president.
The president -- remember, the president will be satisfied with something that is cinematic, that makes a big boom and destroys and breaks a lot of stuff. That's what happened in Caracas. He doesn't care so much about the longer questions of regime change, which are much more challenging.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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MICHAELSON: Meanwhile, President Trump is expected to convene the inaugural meeting of his Board of Peace on Thursday. U.S. officials says the president will run it like one of his Cabinet meetings. The details are still unclear. Officials from dozens of countries are expected to be there, either as members or observers. But several major U.S. allies have already rejected membership.
President Trump has previewed big announcements for the meeting, including billions of dollars towards rebuilding Gaza and personnel for an International Stabilization Force.
We are expecting a verdict soon in the trial of South Korea's former president. Yoon Suk Yeol is accused of masterminding an insurrection in December of 2024, when he declared martial law. That carries a maximum sentence of the death penalty or life in prison. Yoon also faces charges of abusing his power by ordering troops to storm parliament and jail his opponents.
CNN's senior international correspondent Ivan Watson is following this all. He is live in Hong Kong. Ivan, a historic day.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It sure is. In a matter of hours we're expecting the former president to appear in court in Seoul. CNN has a camera outside the courthouse right now where there are already dozens of supporters of the disgraced conservative president gathered outside waving signs and so on.
And to remember what happened here, I have to take you back to the night of December 3rd, 2024. That's when President Yoon, he was still president, and he made this surprise televised announcement where he was declaring martial law. It really shocked South Korea and I think many other people around the world. And in the subsequent hours you had helicopters, military helicopters, choppering in troops to the compound of the National Assembly Police being sent there.
And at the same time, spontaneous gatherings of protesters who showed up at the gates of the National Assembly to defend South Korean democracy, as well as lawmakers who rushed to the legislature. And within a matter of hours voted down this martial law decree. And in the subsequent weeks, President Yoon was impeached. He was arrested. He was stripped from office, and now he's standing trial in at least a half dozen different cases. Many of them linked to this.
Take a listen to what one opposition lawmaker and former justice minister has to say about the importance of this trial and the South Korean society's reaction to this attempted power grab.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHO KUK, REBUILDING KOREA PARTY LEADER (through translator): At the very least, Yoon Suk Yeol should get a life sentence because he tried to destroy South Korea's democracy. There are many places where democracy is faltering. South Korea's experience shows the power to protect and recover democracy lies within the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: So here's what's important. According to South Korea's criminal code if Yoon is found guilty of leading an insurrection, there are three possible sentences, death, life imprisonment with labor, or life imprisonment without labor.
Now, South Korea hasn't executed anybody since the 1990s. So many experts think it's unlikely he would actually face execution at this point. But you could really have history being made here. After all President Yoon is the first sitting president to have ever been arrested, and several of his former top aides, a former prime minister, as well as another top official, have already been found guilty of insurrection and that's why many people are expecting a possible guilty verdict in the hours to come here -- Elex.
MICHAELSON: That would be remarkable. Even a life in prison for a former head of state. It would be a remarkable moment. When it happens, we will bring it to you live.
Ivan Watson, we'll see you next hour, hopefully with a verdict. Thank you so much.
Meanwhile, breaking news overseas billionaire, Bill Gates has pulled out of India's A.I. Impact Summit just hours before he was set to deliver the keynote address. It is the latest blow to the event, which has experienced organizational challenges and complaints, and it comes just weeks after Gates' name appeared in draft e-mails in the Epstein files. The Gates Foundation says he will not give his address to, quote, "ensure the focus remains on the A.I. summit's key priorities."
No reason was provided for his withdrawal but we do know that Bill Gates was there, was set to do this, and now it's not happening.
We learned just moments ago that multiple people associated with the Sugar Bowl Academy were killed in an avalanche near Lake Tahoe. That academy is a private school in U.S. Ski and Snowboard Club.
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CNN's Stephanie Elam has more on the deaths caused by this avalanche here in California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the final leg of a three-day cross-country skiing trip when the avalanche hit. Eleven skiers and four guides were traversing the backcountry at Castle Peak, a more than 9,000 foot summit in the Sierra Nevada Mountains near Lake Tahoe when catastrophe struck.
SHERIFF SHANNAN MOON, NEVADA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: There were nine women and six men. We were able to rescue one man and five women.
ELAM (voice-over): Eight people died on the mountain.
MOON: All six were rescued off of the mountain. Two of the six were not mobile. They could not walk. One was a Blackbird Mountain guide and five survivors were clients on that tour.
ELAM (voice-over): According to the sheriff's department, the survivors said the group was trying to get out when someone saw the deluge of snow and yelled avalanche. An avalanche of snow, ice, rocks and debris about as long as a football field, according to the U.S. Forest Service. The local sheriff's office received a 911 call around 11:30 Tuesday morning, saying much of the party was trapped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Castle Peak, reported as nine to 10 people buried, three others attempting to dig them out.
ELAM (voice-over): There were storm warnings to avoid the area as early as Friday. The National Weather Service in Reno issued a haunting forewarning.
Will you be able to make it home, with forecasters predicting that the storm would drop several feet of snow when all is said and done? And on Sunday, the Blackbird Mountain guys, the company leading the trip, forecasted a weak layer of snow that could create unpredictable avalanches. Then on Monday, the powerful winter storm began pummeling the Sierras before Tuesday's tragedy struck.
Now, as recovery efforts continue, an urgent plea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please avoid the Sierras.
ELAM (voice-over): Stephanie Elam, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Catholics are observing the 40-day season of Lent. On Ash Wednesday, Pope Leo led the procession and prayers in Rome and expressed his concern about ongoing wars and destruction of the environment. During Lent, the faithful fast, pray and reflect in remembrance of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
In Mexico City, Catholic priests performed the Ash Wednesday ritual for worshipers there. Mexico has the second largest Catholic population after Brazil.
Still to come, I talked to Senator Bernie Sanders about his push for a billionaire wealth tax. But up next, desperate search for Nancy Guthrie and any clues that might lead to her whereabouts. Former FBI agent Steve Moore with us live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MICHAELSON: Painstaking work is underway in Arizona, where local and federal investigators are said to be poring over thousands of hours of video hoping to find new clues in the case of Nancy Guthrie. Law enforcement officials tell CNN authorities had canvas residences, businesses and government agencies in the Tucson area for surveillance video. More than three weeks since Guthrie's alleged abduction, investigators have not identified a suspect nor her whereabouts.
Meanwhile, a source says authorities on both sides of the U.S. southern border have been asked to watch for any clues that could help in the case. That move, we're told, is part of standard investigative procedures.
Joining me here once again live in Los Angeles is Steve Moore, CNN law enforcement contributor, retired supervisory special agent with the FBI.
Steve, welcome back to THE STORY IS. Talk about this FBI-Mexico relationship and how that works and how that worked for you.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that's a tortured relationship at best. There was a time when we wouldn't even carry our credentials into Mexico because we were concerned that some of the Mexican police departments and officers were co-opted. So going down there is something we do. I mean, we have an agent stationed in Mexico City as the legal attache in the embassy so there are ways to cooperate. But there's also some -- there's some distrust and maybe even some bad experiences. MICHAELSON: Wow. So you say it's not totally standard operating
procedure to be on the same page on all this kind of stuff.
MOORE: It's hard to be on the same page with Mexico sometimes because they have different priorities and they have refused to extradite several times. And they also have severe penalties for crimes in the U.S. that would be misdemeanors. And sometimes Americans get wrapped up in that. And it's very difficult getting them home. And they're really not enthused that the FBI is coming in and saying, you know, we want our people back.
MICHAELSON: Meanwhile, there's this phenomenon happening in Arizona of the armchair detectives. Right?
MOORE: Yes.
MICHAELSON: This is people that have shown up there that are sort of doing some of these social media videos. There's plenty of people at home that have their theories that haven't shown up there. How does that impact this case? And when you're working a case, how does that impact you?
MOORE: In the FBI, you tried to keep your head down and not listen. It would be the equivalent of anything you do on the internet here, you would turn off all comments. You know, the FBI doesn't want to hear what's going on out here. And by out here, I mean outside the crime scene and the office because they don't want to be influenced by what the public might think. The FBI has so much more information than the public has.
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I mean, that little bit of video they released, I'm convinced they have a lot more of that. But the world has changed. These, you know, for lack of better term, the armchair detectives have become a force. I think it started in the early 2000s, probably during the Amanda Knox case, that I was involved with, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. I had people all over in Italy and Germany and England just lambasting me because I said she wasn't guilty. And so what is good in some ways can become a mob.
And that's the problem we're having. People are naming names and coming up with accusations. And the only thing you miss in this internet thing is they can't actually have torches and pitchforks.
MICHAELSON: They basically have virtual torches and pitchforks.
MOORE: Exactly.
MICHAELSON: And oftentimes they're naming people that have nothing to do with it. And then their reputation potentially is impacted forever because of that.
MOORE: There are people who have been so hurt by this, and I don't mean their feelings are hurt. But their careers, their lives have been displaced, because of some irresponsible. You know, I don't begrudge people wanting to see justice done.
MICHAELSON: Right.
MOORE: But you don't have the information they have.
MICHAELSON: And there's -- a lot of the old school way of doing things, of checking sources, of being held responsible, potentially being liable can be boring sometimes, but -- and also there's a reason why we do it that way.
MOORE: Exactly.
MICHAELSON: Steve, great to see you. Thank you.
MOORE: Good to see you again.
MICHAELSON: Hopefully one night soon you'll be here when we find Nancy Guthrie.
MOORE: I hope so.
MICHAELSON: And maybe even tonight.
All right. In Washington, President Trump is remembering the late Reverend Jesse Jackson as a good man and a hero. Jackson passed away Tuesday at the age of 84. He was a prolific civil rights leader and protege of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The president paid tribute to Jackson, somebody he knew very well over the years during a Black History Month reception at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to begin by expressing our sadness at the passing of a person who I knew very well. Jesse was a piece of work. I want to tell you. He was a piece of work. But he was a good man. He was a real -- he was a real hero. And I just want to pay my highest respects to Reverend Jesse Jackson. He's a good man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: They spent a lot of time together in the '80s and the '90s.
Next hour on THE STORY IS, CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig speaks with Melba Pattillo Beals, a member of the Little Rock Nine. She was one of nine black students integrated into a white school in Arkansas nearly 70 years ago during the U.S. Civil Rights Movement. Hear her memories on that historic event right here on CNN.
But coming up next, California's governor is clashing with Senator Bernie Sanders over a proposed ballot initiative. When we return, why the two allies are at odds. I talked to Bernie Sanders tonight. Plus, our political panel here live to weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MICHAELSON: Senator Bernie Sanders is urging voters here in California to back a tax on billionaires. He spoke at a rally here in L.A. a short time ago.
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A large healthcare union argues that a one-time 5 percent tax would save the state's healthcare system from collapsing.
But California Governor Gavin Newsom is pushing back on the proposed ballot measure. He says it could scare away wealthy residents and businesses who fund large parts of California's government.
Tonight, I sat down with Senator Sanders and asked for his response to Governor Newsom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): What they are saying to the people of California is it doesn't matter to us. We're billionaires, and we're getting richer and richer. And if children die because they can't get to a doctor, tough luck. We have the power, California, and we are going to punish you.
Now, they lie a lot, these guys. When Mamdani was running for mayor in New York City, you may recall, everybody -- all the rich guys were going to leave. It didn't happen.
Now, whether they do or not, I don't know. Who knows?
I'm going to introduce the legislation. It ain't going to pass right away. And if California can do it, this will be a message, by the way, not only to America. It will be a message to the world, because this oligarchy is taking over countries all over the world. So, this is a big deal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Let's talk about this now with our panel. Conservative commentator Elisha Krauss is back, and Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson also here. Welcome to you both.
Dave, let's start with you. You work for this -- this organization that's putting this on. So, full disclosure there: you've got a stake in this thing.
DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No doubt.
MICHAELSON: What's the case for this?
I mean, FOX News, which is crazy to say this. Like, FOX News put out a poll that showed 60 percent of voters in California support this measure.
And I think the challenge for the "no" side is that they're bankrolled by Donald Trump cronies. You've got Peter Thiel giving $3 million -- MICHAELSON: Not just -- OK.
JACOBSON: -- to the "no" side.
MICHAELSON: You've got two --
JACOBSON: I get Gavin's on the other side. But here's the reality.
MICHAELSON: Almost every Democrat that's running for governor, most of state --
ELISHA KRAUSS, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Because they know it's not a winning issue.
MICHAELSON: -- lawmakers. I mean, that's -- it's not just Donald Trump that's against this thing. That seems a bit unfair.
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JACOBSON: I get it, but it's a great foil for the "yes" side to say, guess who's bankrolling the "no" side? The billionaires and Donald Trump's best friends, right?
MICHAELSON: Yes.
JACOBSON: The reality is we've got an affordability crisis in this country. It's one of the reasons Democrats have had the momentum in all these elections that we had last year, and they're winning tough races and red seats.
And at the time you've got this affordability crisis, you have the billionaires saying no; health care cuts coming to California. Potentially, 3 million people could lose health care.
So, you've got this potential tax that some billionaires support. The head of NVIDIA, Jensen Huang, supports it. Tom Steyer supports taxing billionaires.
MICHAELSON: No, he does not support it.
JACOBSON: He doesn't support this measure, but --
MICHAELSON: He came on the air, and I asked him specifically about it. And Jensen Huang said he's OK with the concept of doing some sort of tax. It wasn't --
JACOBSON: And I will -- I will mention Tony Thurmond does support this, by the way.
MICHAELSON: OK.
JACOBSON: He's running for governor
MICHAELSON: Who you're also representing.
JACOBSON: Yes, I am, indeed. MICHAELSON: So, we'll get another shout-out in.
JACOBSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Elisha, your response?
KRAUSS: I think it's insane that Bernie Sanders actually said at that rally this evening that the most significant addiction crisis in the country today is the greed of the billionaire class.
It seems very out of touch, whether you're a mom in Southern California or a tech bro in the Bay Area, to hear him say that and claim that our side, that's anti-additional taxes that have repeatedly not worked to help the state get out of deficit. And fund programs that actually work.
Look at all of the money that is wasted by the government, just doling out and failing.
And there's other problems that I think are greater. I think it has been proven time and time and again, if you get government out of the way, it is going to help that affordability. If you allow people to purchase across state lines, it's going to get -- like, help that affordability. If you allow school choice, it's going to help that affordability.
There's beyond so many things that we could go to.
And I think that Newsom -- don't like the guy -- is actually being politically savvy here, because he recognizes that this is not something that's going to help him win a presidential election in 2028 or appease the voters here in the state of California.
MICHAELSON: Well, and also might not help him govern the state. I mean, the argument that Newsom is making, and most of the candidates for governor are making, is that this is a one-time thing where you might get a lump sum right away.
But then, what if all these people leave? I mean, right now in the state of California, the top 1 percent make up 40 percent of the state revenue.
The billionaires alone make up 23 percent of the state revenue. And if they start leaving the state because of this, long-term, it actually hurts the poorest Californians.
JACOBSON: I think two things. No. 1, there's like 800 billionaires in this country, and they have, like, more than half the wealth of the entire country.
So, fundamentally, I think that's super undemocratic that you have this system where the few have so much, and the poor have so little.
KRAUSS: But did they steal it or did they earn it?
JACOBSON: Not -- not the issue. KRAUSS: Yes, it is an issue.
JACOBSON: And the reality is --
KRAUSS: Because you're saying that you want to take from them something that they rightfully earned that actually benefits not just the California economy, like Elex pointed out, but the United States and international economy and beyond.
The jobs that they provide, the infrastructure that they provide, the things that they provide to, like, our national security apparatus, the list can go on and on.
I don't think that this is something that is beneficial. And if I were in your seat, I wouldn't be saying this. Like, I'd be saying the same thing.
Like, if I were a leftist, I could look at this, and just look at the numbers, and look at the strategy and be like, this is not going to work.
JACOBSON: But I think, bottom line, like electorally, Bernie Sanders is among the most popular Democrats in California.
I was involved in the Prop 50 campaign.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
JACOBSON: We extensively did polling on who were good validators. Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders were the top tested validators for that message.
And I'm doing polling all across the state of multiple races. Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama are still among the most popular Democrats.
MICHAELSON: And Bernie Sanders won this state twice.
JACOBSON: Against Joe Biden. Right, right. So, the reality is --
MICHAELSON: Although it was in the primary.
JACOBSON: -- his validation, I think, carries significant sway in deep-blue California.
MICHAELSON: It does. And the way this is worded is really important, because most people support the idea that billionaires should pay more.
But then the fine print sometimes can be different here, depending on what happens here.
All right. We could talk about this all night. But let's get to another topic. The State of the Union is on Tuesday, and some Democrats are planning an alternative State of the Union.
So, we had the alternative halftime show with Kid Rock. Now, there's going to be an alternative State of the Union for folks who don't want to sit in the chamber and listen to President Trump.
The tradition, of course, has always been that you listen to the president, even if they're from the other party, to show that the country can come together and have a conversation. But some Democrats, not in favor of this. What do you think?
KRAUS: I think I might surprise you both. I'm a fan of this.
I was a fan when that congressman a bajillion years ago yelled "liar" at Barack Obama when he talked about affordability.
MICHAELSON: Really?
KRAUSS: I wish sometimes that the House and Senate, during the State of the Union, would act more like British Parliament. I think it is hilarious when Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch go after each other.
And they can be like "you, sir," and "you, madam." Like, horrible English accent, I know.
But I think that, fine, go do it. We know that they're doing this for the C-SPAN clips that they can pull for those campaigns that this guy over here is going to run, because it looks good to their base and their donor base. I don't think it looks good broadly to the American people.
[00:40:05]
But go ahead. Left, right, center. If you want to walk out, that is your right to do it.
MICHAELSON: OK.
JACOBSON: I will say, like, taking after the Brits would probably increase ratings for the State of the Union, for sure.
MICHAELSON: Yes, I don't know. I'm an institutionalist.
JACOBSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: And I think that the idea of showing respect to the office --
KRAUSS: I get that.
MICHAELSON: -- of the presidency of the United States. Because you want them to be there when you're in charge, because power goes back and forth. And people think that they're never going to change hands, and it always does. And so, I don't know, but --
JACOBSON: Can I -- can I just say, like, if there was, like, a President Mitt Romney that Democrats, like, fundamentally disagreed on issues of, like, abortion, for example, I think that you wouldn't have this sort of, like, boycott, segmented like dynamic.
And you wouldn't have people, like, creating this sort of same dynamic that you have with President Trump.
You've got this guy who, according to "The Washington Post," lied 30,000 times in his first tenure as president. Right? You've got ICE agents murdering Americans on the streets.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
JACOBSON: Kidnapping children. We can't normalize this guy. And I think that's the -- that's sort of the point the Democrats are trying to make here.
KRAUSS: My counterpoint, though, would be that I've been in politics, in media long enough to know that every single GOP candidate for president and every single GOP president, you guys always say, this guy is the worst.
And we've been hearing that about Donald Trump since 2016.
MICHAELSON: Well --
KRAUSS: But you said the same thing about Mitt Romney. Binders full of women.
MICHAELSON: Objectively -- objectively, Donald Trump has lied more than other people.
KRAUSS: Of course.
MICHAELSON: Way more.
KRAUSS: But it's, like, interesting.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KRAUSS: Hindsight is always 20/20, 20 years too late for a lot of the progressive liberals that, you know, threw John McCain, and George W. Bush, and Mitt Romney under the bus.
MICHAELSON: OK. Just want to get another topic in here quickly
Casey Wasserman is the current chair of the L.A. 2028 Olympics. His name was in the Epstein files. He exchanged flirty messages with Ghislaine Maxwell when he was a married man decades ago, before she was charged with any crimes, before Jeffrey Epstein was charged with any crimes.
He has not been charged with any crimes. The L.A. 2028 board, who know him the best, have said we support him staying in the job.
But there are now a bunch of lawmakers, new ones tonight -- the mayor of Los Angeles -- calling on him to step down. Some of the folks at the talent agency that he owns have left, including Chappell Roan.
What do you make of this reaction? Is it a good reaction, or is it sort of a mob cancel mentality that isn't earned? KRAUSS: Yes, I think it's very interesting that you have Democrats
that are saying, oh, he definitely needs to leave. And that voice of Chappell Roan and other artists that were at his agency, even people within the agency and agents themselves, that are like were not comfortable with this. He needs to leave.
I think I don't -- I don't beholden to the -- if anyone was named in the files, therefore, they are guilty.
But I'll tell you who wasn't in the files: W. I'll tell you who else wasn't in the files. Like, maybe just -- just don't go to Diddy parties. Don't hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. And don't be a creep that tries to cheat on your wife. And then it won't hurt you politically, personally or professionally down the line.
MICHAELSON: What do you make of the -- the politics of this moment? Because it seems like there is momentum against Casey Wasserman tonight.
JACOBSON: I think there's significant momentum, and I saw Tina McKinnor, who's an assembly member, and she leads the L.A. delegation for the legislature here. And she called it a distraction.
I think she's spot on. Like, we shouldn't be talking about this. We need to be planning every day to, like, make sure that we can actually execute a well-thought-out Olympic session here in Los Angeles.
Like, I feel like we're nowhere near that, and it's just two years away. So, this is a distraction. I think he's got to go.
MICHAELSON: Mark Gonzalez is another one of the lawmakers who made that call. He's going to join us live in our next hour.
Casey Wasserman, though, is in Italy representing Los Angeles right now as the Olympics there continue.
Dave, Elisha, great conversation. Really appreciate it always interesting to talk with you guys. Have a great night.
KRAUSS: Thank you.
JACOBSON: Thanks for having us.
MICHAELSON: Coming up, U.S. policy makers are taking a cue from Denmark about child vaccinations. But many Danes say the health care systems in the two countries are quite different. Sanjay Gupta traveled there. The doctor makes a house call, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:48:52]
MICHAELSON: In a controversial shift earlier this year, U.S. health officials slashed the childhood vaccine schedule from 17 vaccines to just 11. They're taking inspiration from Denmark's approach.
CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta went to Copenhagen to find out why some Americans think Denmark's model is worth following.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Denmark has long recommended fewer childhood vaccines than the United States.
Babies here leave the hospital without any shots. By the time they're 12 years old, most Danish children have received vaccines against ten diseases.
Now, compare that to the United States. Until recently, American officials recommended children get vaccinated for 17 diseases. Now, six of those are still available but no longer recommended: Hepatitis A and B, meningitis, rotavirus, flu, and COVID-19.
Some of those, like hepatitis B, are still a serious threat in certain parts of the United States but not so much in Denmark. About six in every 100,000 Americans are diagnosed every year with chronic hepatitis B. Compare that to less than two per 100,000 in Denmark.
[00:50:04]
That means around 18,000 Americans diagnosed every year, compared to about 100 in Denmark.
GUPTA: So, this is a referral hospital?
DR. JENS LUNDGREN, SPECIALIST IN INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That's right.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Jens Lundgren is a specialist in infectious diseases. He sits on the panel that decides which vaccines to give Denmark's children.
GUPTA: Did it surprise you when you heard that the United States is trying to emulate their vaccine schedule on Denmark?
LUNDGREN: Yes, I certainly didn't see that coming. You cannot just take what has been carefully thought through in one geographical location and just extrapolate that and generalize that.
GUPTA: I think part of the reason that they emulate Denmark is because Denmark has the fewest vaccines on the schedule.
LUNDGREN: But, you see, that's not a good argument, right? So -- so why do you want to condense your vaccine program against the fewest vaccine? You want to have the right vaccines for the public health that you have in your population.
GUPTA: You believe these vaccines that we're talking about on the childhood vaccine schedule, you believe they are safe and effective.
LUNDGREN: Correct.
GUPTA: That's not the concern.
LUNDGREN: That's not the debate here.
GUPTA: So, what is it fundamentally about?
LUNDGREN: We have come to realize, after have made some mistakes, also, early on in -- in how the vaccine program, that it's entirely based on trust. The trust. The trust -- the parents needs to trust. When we come with a new vaccine into the program, they need to trust that that's -- that's very sensible to do, and they would therefore adhere to that.
GUPTA (voice-over): Lundgren and his colleagues are now considering adding another vaccine, the one for chickenpox.
Most Danes trust their government. Of the world's most advanced economies, it ranks near the top.
And here's the United States: dead last. Just 28 percent of Americans trust the government.
Danish trust in government goes far beyond vaccines. Even after parents leave the hospital, child rearing looks a whole lot different here.
GUPTA: I want to show you something pretty extraordinary. We've come to visit two-and-a-half-month-old Esther (ph). Of course, we expected to find her inside the house, given how cold it is. But instead, here she is, in a stroller outside, freezing cold temperatures.
GUPTA (voice-over): You'll see this everywhere in Denmark. Parents swear by the fresh air for their heavily swaddled babies.
The family is waiting for a home health nurse to arrive, who will come free of charge 5 to 6 times during the baby's first year of life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
GRAPHIC: Oh, you're so strong. Should we start by weighing you, or should we start by measuring you? Oh, am I getting a smile?
GUPTA: What I'm struck by is Denmark is so different than the United States. You're here. Parental leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GUPTA: Nationalized healthcare system.
KENNETH SEJR HANSEN, FATHER OF THREE: Obviously, there's a lot of people in the U.S. who are not that fond of the government actually running anything at all.
EDITH MARIE NELSEN, MOTHER OF THREE: It's two completely different countries, right? And it's run differently. And politically, governmentally.
But I would want for -- for the people in U.S. to have some of the benefits that we experience. Because I do believe it benefits me as a -- as a parent. I believe it works.
So, I basically trust the system, right; that they have decided it for me and it works.
GUPTA (voice-over): Vaccination isn't the only reason that outbreaks are less common here in Denmark. The National Serum Institute, or SSI, here in Copenhagen keeps meticulous medical records of all Danish citizens, helping them track illnesses to help predict and even prevent outbreaks.
GUPTA: What makes Denmark's superpower, this data tracking?
LONE SIMONSEN, PROFESSOR OF POPULATION HEALTH SCIENCES, ROSKILDE UNIVERSITY: Whenever someone is tested for something, it goes into one database. Whenever someone is vaccinated, it goes into one database. It doesn't go to all kinds of places. It's one place. And then it's quite doable to link all this together.
GUPTA (voice-over): Americans might be uncomfortable with that level of tracking, but it is one of the many factors that makes the Danish system work.
It's easy to see reflections of the MAHA movement here. Danes emphasize personal health to ward off disease, and they are skeptical of too much medical intervention.
But the success of the Danish system is based on so much more than the number of vaccines parents give their children. Nationalized health care, high trust, and a lot of strong co-dependence on one another.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Copenhagen, Denmark.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: A fascinating report. Our thanks to Dr. Sanjay.
Coming up, it took her nearly a decade, but U.S. skier Mikaela Shiffrin is back on the Olympic podium. Her historic slalom victory after the break.
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[00:59:35]
MICHAELSON: Top American skier Mikaela Shiffrin has ended her eight- year Olympic medal drought in triumphant fashion. She took home gold in the women's slalom on Wednesday, with the largest margin of victory in any alpine skiing event since 1998.
Shiffrin was just 18 years old when she won her first slalom gold at the 2014 Olympics. She failed to reach the podium in her signature event ever since.
Now, 12 years later, and at age 30, Shiffrin is the youngest and oldest woman to win Olympic alpine gold. Thanks for watching this hour of THE STORY IS. The next hour starts
right now.
