Return to Transcripts main page
The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Harry & Meghan Planning Move Back To U.K., CNN Understands; U.S. House Ethics Committee Investigating Rep. Jimmy Gomez; Former Engineering Director Testifies Against Meta; Meta on Trial over Alleged Addiction Harm to Children; Ex-FBI Agent Details 1998 Agreement with Murder Suspect; Psychologist: Mom Who Killed Kids Didn't Know Right from Wrong; House Oversight Committee Threatens Leon Black with Contempt; NOAA: El Nino Headed for Record-Shattering Intensity; Moderna, Merck Say Melanoma Vaccine Success in Large Trial. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired August 20, 2026 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was terrible and also I slept to my sister's house, so that was better to my friend's house.
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: So you actually had to leave?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): It's not just Parisians willing to squeeze into these tiny homes, tourists do it too, paying as much as $140 a night to stay in the heart of Paris. And whether they're here for a night or a year, perhaps this is part of what they're paying for.
VANDOORNE: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see the view.
VANDOORNE: Yes, the Eiffel Tower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the Eiffel Tower.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Good for them. I don't think I would fit walking in there at 6'5", but good for them. Thanks for watching the first hour of The Story Is. The next hour starts right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, The Story Is with Elex Michelson.
MICHAELSON: I'm Elex Michelson live in Los Angeles. Coming up, the story is back to the U.K. Prince Harry and Meghan are reportedly preparing to leave California six years after stepping away from royal life. We'll discuss why this decision is so shocking. The Story Is, skyrocketing debt. The U.S. hits a $40 trillion debt milestone, much sooner than expected. What it could mean for the economy.
And The Story Is, back on trial. A former Meta engineer testifies that CEO Mark Zuckerberg fostered a culture that put growth and engagement ahead of child safety. We'll take you inside the courtroom.
Welcome to this hour. I'm Elex Michelson. Tonight, the top story is a reported big move back to the U.K. CNN understands the Duke and Duchess of Sussex plan to return to the U.K. after living in the U.S. for six years. Prince Harry and his wife Meghan left Britain in 2020 after stepping back from their royal duties. They've lived here in California ever since. A couple said that racism, tabloids, online abuse, complex family problems all prompted their original move.
Joining me now is Sandro Monetti, editor in chief of the Hollywood International Film Magazine. Well done on the outfit, Sandro. Never one to disappoint. So, Sandro, why are they moving back? What do we know about this decision?
SANDRO MONETTI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOOD INTERNATIONAL FILM MAGAZINE: Supposedly because their children, Archie, seven, and Lilibet, five, want to go to one of these superior British schools where the semester starts in the second week of September. So they should be back in just a few days.
And of course, after Harry's recent visit to see his dad, to be closer to the King. But speculation has centered on the fact that maybe there are commercial reasons for this after their Hollywood dream has somewhat soured. All I know is that it's a P.R. headache and a constitutional one for King Charles and will the British public give them a warm welcome back? I'm not so sure.
MICHAELSON: We know that Prince Harry has accused the press in the U.K. of harassing his mother, contributing to her death, harassing his wife. He's been concerned about her safety. He has sued the press multiple times. One of the main reasons he's gone back to the U.K. is to be in the courtroom to sue them. Any reason to believe that the press is going to give him more space, more privacy, more safety this time around?
MONETTI: Absolutely none. This story is an absolute gift to the press because they're on the front pages again. So it's very, very surprising that someone who has spent most of his visits going back to the U.K., since moving to America six years ago in courtrooms, has decided to move back to Britain. So yes, it's going to be very uncomfortable ahead for him. But I would suggest a gift to the tabloids and lots of competition for William and Kate for the front pages.
MICHAELSON: Yes, and we just looked at a picture of him with his father, the King, and his brother, the future King. What is his relationship like with them right now?
MONETTI: Better with Charles. Still fractured with William. And also a difficult relationship with the British public. According to the latest Ipsos polling data, Harry has a 30 percent favorability rating. Meghan has 23, the lowest of any major figure in the royal family. But she is at least above former Prince Andrew.
[01:04:54]
So her battle to win over the British public is, I suggest, harder than Harry's. But both of them have got sort of real trouble ahead. This isn't necessarily the dream move they might be anticipating. So they'll have to win over the British public as well as the press. And they are going to need the best P.R. officer in the world.
MICHAELSON: Well, it's good that she's got better P.R. than Prince Andrew at this point, or no longer Prince Andrew, as he should be said. In terms of P.R. efforts, I just got to give you credit, Sandro. So we've got the California sign behind you to represent that part of the story. You've got the U.K. flag on your tie. And then you've got the USA line. So you're literally visualizing this story for us with your background.
MONETTI: Much like Meghan and Harry, or especially Harry, you know, I moved to California for a better life and to dream big. I haven't gone back yet. It's lasted 20 years for me, only six for them. I'm half in, half out, what they've tried to be with the royal family. They're not going back as working royals if they were, it would be easier for them. I see trouble ahead, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Well, no trouble with your background. Sandro Monetti, we love having you here in the United States. Thanks so much for your insights to start us off this hour.
The U.S. national debt --
MONETTI: God bless America.
MICHAELSON: God bless America, indeed. And God save the King. The U.S. national debt has crossed a staggering threshold in what economists are calling an unsustainable path forward. The Treasury Department says that the federal debt has now topped the $40 trillion mark. And that will have serious consequences for years to come. A number of factors are involved. Congress has passed multiple packages that cut taxes and increased spending over the past few decades.
Remember when Elon Musk was going to solve all this? Well, here we are. Interest payments are expected to top a trillion dollars this fiscal year. That's a lot of money going to China. And an aging population means that more spending is happening on Social Security and Medicare. The U.S. Treasury has stepped in to try to calm the bond market and address a relentless rise in borrowing costs. Yields on 10- year Treasury notes and 30-year bonds retreated after the government said it would be doubling its buybacks in the coming months.
The 30-year yield hit the highest level in nearly two decades on Tuesday. And the benchmark 10-year yield, which influences mortgage rates, is near the highest it's been since President Trump returned to office. Even so, the President says he's not concerned about the recent selloff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are Americans concerned about this volatility in the bond market?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't think so. Because like I said, our country is doing so well despite interest rates. We have interest rates that are artificially, they're actually artificially high.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Bond yields helped set interest rates across the economy. Their rise this year has led to higher borrowing costs for consumers and fueled concerns about affordability, which of course has been issue number one for people. CNN business editor at large Richard Quest tries to explain how this bond yields actually works.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: So have a look at this. This is you and me as the investor. When you buy a government bond, you are essentially giving the government an IOU. And as the government borrows more and more, those loans become more risky. So the investor, that's you, demands more and more and more and higher, higher in terms of yields, pushing them up. That means overall, the government has to pay more to borrow.
Now, this is all very well known. And indeed, this has been going on for years. Money going that way, interest going that way, coupons going that way, money going that way, backwards and forwards. The only problem is that, the U.S. national debt has just hit $40 trillion. And the interest payments alone come to roughly $2.3 million per minute.
MICHAELSON: Richard Quest, who apparently is like the John Madden of the Telestrator when it comes to economy news. Well done, Richard. Thank you for that.
President Trump now says that the U.S. will be putting more financial pressure on Iran. Earlier on social media, he wrote, "No one has given the Islamic Republic of Iran a greater opportunity to make a deal than me. Tragically for them, they failed to take it. Therefore, today I'm announcing the most crushing economic operation ever taken against any country. This will be economic warfare and isolation on an unprecedented scale." He went on to say that any country that allows its businesses, airports, or government entities to provide a lifeline to Iran will also face major economic consequences, threatening them with a "economic D-Day."
[01:10:03]
Other political news now, attorneys for a woman who accused a congressman of abuse says she has spoken to the U.S. House Ethics Committee and told them that Democrat Jimmy Gomez sexually assaulted and harassed her. The committee announced earlier this week that it is investigating Gomez who represents parts of Los Angeles. CNN's Alison Gordon has the details and his response. ALLISON GORDON, CNN INVESTIGATES REPORTER & PRODUCER: For months, Gomez has said any relationship he had was consensual, but one of the women involved told the Ethics Committee that it was not. She said she was sexually assaulted by and harassed by Gomez. So that information comes from the women's attorney who released a statement saying, we represent one of the women who was interviewed by the House Committee on Ethics about her experience of sexual harassment and assault by Representative Jimmy Gomez.
His actions were not consensual in nature with respect to our client. We fully expect that the House Committee on Ethics will come to the same conclusion in this investigation. So I reached out to Gomez's office earlier today and he has not yet responded to this latest allegation. But on Monday, the office reiterated to CNN that while he has made past mistakes, he did not break any house ethics rules or break the law. And Gomez said, "I take full responsibility and have committed myself to working through the pain privately with my wife and family."
MICHAELSON: Our thanks to Allison Gordon for that. Let's talk about this with conservative commentator Elicia Krauss and Will Rollins, a former federal prosecutor who also ran for Congress as a Democrat. I know you know Jimmy Gomez, as we all do. Jimmy Gomez was good friends with Eric Swalwell, was one of his campaign co-chairs.
ELICIA KRAUSS, OP-ED WRITER, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Birds of a feather.
MICHAELSON: Also very close with Ruben Gallego. What is your reaction to this and how it impacts him as he's now currently running for reelection?
WILL ROLLINS, FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Elicia and I were just talking about this in the green room. And honestly, it is a weird experience to meet some of these people in real life and think that they are one way and learn later that they're not. And it's very reminiscent of the Swalwell story. And I think there really is an institutional problem in the House of Representatives with the way that women are treated and the way that these men behave towards women who work for them.
And this is a bipartisan problem. And unfortunately, both parties have failed to take steps to protect female staffers and young staffers who are sexually harassed historically and have been for years in Congress. And if the public cares about it, make it something that you demand of the people who are running, that they are going to enact meaningful reform to protect young staffers and to get these people out of the House when there are credible allegations of sexual assault and certainly misconduct of this nature.
MICHAELSON: Of course, he has not admitted any criminal wrongdoing here. It sounds like he's admitted some sort of extramarital affair.
KRAUSS: Yes.
MICHAELSON: But how do you see this issue? KRAUSS: I don't know. The conservative Christian in me is like, could we just have decent men and women run for office? And I get that he's saying like, oh, well, I didn't break any official ethics rules. I kind of think it's unethical to pursue a staffer at all. I even think it's unethical. Who's the one Republican that was like dating a chicken at somebody else's office? Like, just don't. Like, maybe just don't. We have those rules for teachers and professors and coaches. Maybe our politicians should be along the same lines.
ROLLINS: They need an H.R. department there that actually has some teeth, seriously. And they won't vote to impose it on themselves. And this is honestly a huge part of the reason that the public is pissed off with their representatives. And it's -- there's all these structural reasons that we get people into the House that I think are there sometimes for the wrong reasons or who exploit power and position to take advantage of people for the wrong reasons.
KRAUSS: It is the political game though. I mean, it turns out sometimes you have to be a narcissist that's really good at, you know, getting lots of money and that also looks good and sounds good on T.V. And sometimes it turns out those people like power and they like power because they like to abuse those that are under them.
MICHAELSON: Yes, and an interesting situation here because of the way that California has a top two system, he's running against another Democrat. So you have a situation here for Democratic voters who may not be comfortable with this allegations where there's a Democratic alternative. It would be tough for a Republican to potentially win that district. But Gomez thought of as somebody who was probably going to win fairly easily. Now this opponent has a real chance.
ROLLINS: And I would say, I think the Democratic primary electorate doesn't put up with this crap a lot of the time. And so I think he's got a serious political problem on his hands in addition to a legal one.
MICHAELSON: You're talking about the voter frustration. Part of that voter frustration has also fueled the rise of the Democratic socialists of America with a lot of people who feel like the system itself is so broken, screw the system, break the system. Let's try something different.
KRAUSS: Yes, going back to Bernie Sanders versus Hillary.
MICHAELSON: Or even before, so Paul Begala was on a podcast with Jessica Tarlov of "Fox News" earlier. And he's making the argument that this sort of fringe extremist leftists have hurt the party over and over again. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[01:15:05]
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The DSA has their own party. They do. And they have -- here's what they've done for America. OK, they elected George Bush by supporting Ralph Nader in 2000. They elected Donald Trump by supporting Jill Stein in 2016. They helped elect Donald Trump in 2024 by doing this uncommitted nonsense in Michigan. So their contribution to America has been the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the financial crisis, and the Trump presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Does he have a point? Is that a little over the top? What do you think?
ROLLINS: Yes, he has a point. I think you win in the middle. You win with centrists. I've said that again and again on this show. And I think that what the DSA is tapping into and frankly what people like Tucker Carlson are tapping into too, right, are anger and frustration with cost of living and economic populism that has gotten the electorate so pissed off writ large that they are searching for people who are speaking with increasingly radical rhetoric.
MICHAELSON: But to that point, and I say this with love, you didn't win as a centrist, right? And there's a lot of other centrists that did not win. Haley Stevens, more of a centrist than Abdul El-Sayed. You know, Angie Nixon winning last night in Florida as a member of the DSA.
ROLLINS: Totally fair. But I will say that if you look at all the data on this, moderate Democrats overperform in general elections historically. I overperformed top of the ticket compared to Harris versus AOC, right? So there are centrists where, and I was running in a heavily Republican seat. You don't get that close to flipping it without being in the middle and appealing to the other side.
And I think honestly, most Americans, Republican and Democratic, are looking for candidates that can relate to having family members in both parties, to knowing what it means to compromise when everybody's not going to agree with you all the time, to having a sense of humor, to trying to actually get something done for the American people. And so I think that's what's going to deliver victories for the Democratic Party.
MICHAELSON: But we have seen, Elicia, that a lot of times the clicks, the fundraising, the cable news attention, all the rest of it, all favors the people that are the most extreme.
KRAUSS: Yes. But thank God we've also seen that, to Will's point, when push comes to shove, with the electorate, they don't tend to like the most extreme ideas. We've seen this with those Tucker-Fuentes, SNCCO- backed (ph) candidates versus who President Trump and the mainstream GOP are endorsing.
You have Republican primary voters that are like, yes, it turns out we're not for the crazy alt-righters that think that, you know, Israel planned October 7th and Benjamin Netanyahu is puppeteering Donald Trump because they're not winning. Their people are not winning. They might be winning the clickbait, but in the long term, I thank God, I don't think that they're going to win over the conservative movement.
MICHAELSON: Well, you bring up the name Tucker Carlson. Paul Begala also brought up the name Tucker Carlson. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: I believe, this is not having talked to him in years, I believe he'll run, he'll run as a Republican, and he'll win the nomination. He will be the Republican candidate in 2028.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Of course, Paul Begala used to host Crossfire with Tucker Carlson on CNN.
KRAUSS: Yes.
MICHAELSON: As the Republican on the panel, your thoughts on that?
KRAUSS: I think that that's impossible. Tucker likes his fame and his money too much to even, you know, toy with running for president. And then once again, the guy's political record of the candidates that he has had on his show and that he is endorsing hasn't played out when it comes to the Republican population and the voters there. I don't think that this is a real thing.
MICHAELSON: Well, and maybe you have a better sense of the Republican base than Paul Begala, who has spent his entire life in Denver.
KRAUSS: Maybe he has a better sense of Tucker Carlson than I do because I worked adjacent to him. For seven years, I worked for Hannity, but I was on the radio side and interacted with him a handful of times. For the record, like him and many others on the right, right now that are really pissing me off, I could say I told you so about because I was saying I told you so a long time ago.
And so I think that, you know, maybe he knows Tucker more than I do, but I think that you can see a pattern of behavior here and his pattern of behavior is liking to be popular and very rich.
MICHAELSON: But there is, so did Donald Trump, who liked to be popular and very rich and who just made $2.5 billion dollars being president.
KRAUSS: But Donald Trump was actually portraying, but he was actually tapping in to what the Rust Belt and the Bible Belt and some metropolitan areas really cared about at the time and had a more, I think, more dialed in approach to what the Republican voter wanted and needed. And obviously the general election voters too. Tucker does not have that.
MICHAELSON: But to that point, Will, what Trump showed though is being able to communicate to a big audience of people very effectively understanding media, understanding television, understanding where the base is can be very, very powerful. And clearly Tucker Carlson is very good at communicating and getting attention.
ROLLINS: Yes. And I would say after 2016, nothing is impossible.
MICHAELSON: Yes. [01:20:00]
ROLLINS: I think that prediction is totally feasible. I think when it comes to the general election though, the asset that Trump had that I don't think Tucker does is a sense of humor. And he -- if people find him to be --
MICHAELSON: He does have a good laugh though.
KRAUSS: They find him to be funny. His laugh is going to go viral for all the wrong reasons. And he's got a lot of those clips, I think, out there that are going to come back and bite him. He's just done too many weird things.
KRAUSS: Who has a more memorably obnoxious laugh? Kamala Harris or Tucker Carlson?
ROLLINS: Tucker, hands down, Tucker.
MICHAELSON: I mean, it is interesting to see though if some of these bigger figures like Mark Cuban or Stephen A. Smith are people that are just big communicators if they get into politics or not going forward because the skillset required to be president seems to be different now post Donald Trump. Elicia, Will, always fun to talk with you guys. We're already thinking about 2020. We've got to get through 2026 as well.
Big news when it comes to tech. Meta may be facing its most consequential legal fight yet over youth safety and addiction. Hear what a former employee had to say when he took the stand. That's just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:25:26]
MICHAELSON: A former Meta employee is slamming the social media giant for its safety practices, taking the stand in a landmark trial that could reshape Facebook and Instagram. The former engineering director claims that under Mark Zuckerberg's leadership, growth and engagement are often prioritized over child safety.
Twenty-nine states are suing Meta, alleging that the company intentionally designed its platforms to get young people addicted. Meta has denied the allegations and faces up to $1.4 trillion in penalties. $1.4 trillion with a T. Joining me now is Tyler Katzenberger, Sacramento technology reporter for Politico, who has spent time in court covering this case. Tyler, welcome to The Story Is and welcome to CNN for the first time ever.
TYLER KATZENBERGER, SACRAMENTO TECHNOLOGY REPORTER, POLITICO: Elex, thanks so much for having me.
MICHAELSON: Attorneys are telling you that this is a big tobacco moment, an inflection point for the industry. What do they mean by that? KATZENBERGER: Yes, that's certainly what they're trying to argue. What they're trying to do is make a comparison between what social media companies have said about their product to the way that tobacco companies talked about cigarettes in the 1990s and before that. They're arguing that like tobacco companies, social media companies knew that their product was addictive, that they knew it could be potentially harmful to children, but that they didn't communicate that harm to the public and that when they were asked about it in Congress, they weren't forthcoming about that harm.
Now, like you said, the companies, including Meta, deny this. And yet we're seeing the state attorney generals look for large penalties in this case, as you noted, billions, if not potentially into the trillions of dollars. And we're also seeing them call up potentially big name executives to testify. The California attorney general's office told me earlier this week that they do expect to call Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg as a witness in this case.
MICHAELSON: And that will be quite the day. You have been in the courtroom. You've been in the overflow room. What's the vibe like and what are you seeing in terms of parents there?
KATZENBERGER: There's definitely a lot of anticipation. There are multiple parents who were at the courtroom as proceedings got underway on Tuesday. They filtered into the overflow room. They were watching very closely as Meta's lawyers delivered the company's opening statements. And, you know, when Meta's lawyer said things that the parents disagreed with, you could see them roll their eyes. You could see them have offended looks, exchange them with each other in that overflow room.
And outside of the courtroom, they've been organizing demonstrations, pulling out a banner with names of teens they say died as a result of social media use. They've also brought pictures of their children who, again, they claim died as a result of using social media due to depression, other negative harms that come from social media use, eating disorders. You know, in some cases, they've argued that kids were able to obtain illicit drugs on social media that led to their death.
Now, once again, the companies, including Meta, refute all that. But parents are still there. They're sad, they're angry, and they're hurt. But they're there demanding what they believe to be justice.
MICHAELSON: You are a reporter wise beyond your years, but you yourself are a member of Gen Z. And you say that you're seeing online, attorneys are targeting you and other people your age. How so?
KATZENBERGER: Yes, so I am a member of Gen Z to get that out there. But when I got home from work this evening, I went on Instagram and the very first thing I saw was a paid ad from a trial lawyer's firm telling young adults that if that they -- that if they were addicted to social media or they believe themselves to have been addicted to social media as a teen or as a kid, that they might be entitled to financial compensation. Now, what that shows is that trial lawyers see an opening here to sue Meta and to sue other social media companies as attorneys general and other attorneys are bringing cases arguing that companies and addicted kids and that led to harms. There are critics who say that this kind of approach could lead to plaintiff lawyers almost raiding a cash cow, given how much money Meta and Google make in a given year. But that isn't going to stop these trial lawyers.
[01:30:08]
MICHAELSON: And we know that -- that big changes are coming regardless of what happens with this case. We see California moving to change the rules. We've already seen Australia move to change the rules. France, England looking into this.
So all around the world, the way that people consume social media is either changing or going to change pretty soon as well.
Tyler Katzenberger from Politico. They did well in hiring you. Well done. We'll continue to follow your reporting at politico.com and also as part of the California Politico Playbook as well.
Coming up, new testimony in the murder trial over the killing of rapper, Tupac Shakur. A former L.A. police detective says a suspect on trial spoke to him years ago about the shooting while the detective was investigating a different case. That's next.
[01:30:58]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: Now to Las Vegas and the murder trial over the killing of rapper, Tupac Shakur, 30 years ago. A former FBI special agent testified in court on Wednesday about a confidential agreement made in 1998. It was with Duane Davis, who is on trial on one count of murder with a deadly weapon in the death of the rap legend.
The ex-agent said he spoke with Davis to try to get more information about gang activity as part of an investigation into drug trafficking.
The court also heard from a former L.A. Police detective who was part of a 2006 investigation into the killing of rival rapper, Christopher Wallace, known, of course, as The Notorious BIG -- Biggie.
The detective said when Davis was asked about Biggie's murder, he denied any connection with that incident, but volunteered conversation about Tupac's killing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARYN DUPREE, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Mr. Davis had the gun at first. But they came up on the passenger side of Suge Knight and Mr. Shakur's vehicle, so he couldn't shoot across the driver. So he handed a gun to Dre in the back seat -- Andre Smith. He was afraid to shoot.
Mr. Anderson grabbed the gun and shot across Mr. Smith into Mr. Knight's car. That Mr. Tupac Shakur was in with Mr. Knight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Tupac Shakur was 25 when he was gunned down in a drive-by shooting near the Las Vegas Strip. The trial is expected to resume Thursday afternoon in Las Vegas.
Now to the murder trial of Massachusetts mother, Lindsay Clancy. Her psychologist, telling the court on Wednesday that she did not know right from wrong when she killed her three young children more than three years ago.
That is a key factor in her defense and could determine whether she should be convicted.
CNN's Jean Casarez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paul Zeizel forensic psychologist, extremely important witness for the defense, he said that he met with Lindsay Clancy about 60 times, and it took him almost 40 hours to assess her criminal responsibility, or lack thereof.
He testified that on December 2nd that she was having intrusive thoughts, that she thought her brain was damaged. She thought that she wanted to end her life, that she never thought she was going to get better. And she was concerned that these intrusive thoughts that people were hearing them.
He also testified that she called the suicide hotline two different times. They would not accept her because she did not have a plan.
She checked herself into a mental hospital at the end of December. She was on three different medications, including Seroquel.
Here is a little bit of that defense direct examination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us, when we say intrusive thoughts, is she referring to intrusive thoughts like you might think of something coming up next week that's bothersome? Or is this an indication, in your opinion, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to what she was experiencing at that point in January of 2023?
PAUL ZEIZEL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: She wasn't just having everyday thoughts that we all have, reminding ourselves to do something which we make note of, and then we move on.
Intrusive thoughts are unrelenting. They don't stop. They're what we call ego dystonic. You don't want them. They keep interfering with your ability to get through the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she have at this point, intrusive thoughts continuing regarding voices in her head that she heard constantly? ZEIZEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were these voices saying to her?
ZEIZEL: They were getting worse and they were telling her to kill herself.
CASAREZ: Paul Zeizel was also asked by the defense about a Google search that Lindsay Clancy made four days before she killed her children. It was "Can you treat a sociopath".
The response was that when someone is in psychosis, they can make a search that has no relevance to reality at all. On cross-examination, the prosecution brought out records from the hospital that Lindsay Clancy has been in for the last few years, documenting certain dates.
Dates of when Dawson would have been four years old, or when Cora would have been six years old. Dates of the anniversary of the event of when she killed her children. And all of the notes, hands down from that hospital said normal day, no behavioral issues, playing dominoes, going to the coffee club. Her parents came to visit her.
[01:39:51]
CASAREZ: The prosecution will use that to show that there was no emotion in regard to these events and the fact was she was not in psychosis anymore. And this was premeditated, at least deliberate, murder.
Jean Casarez, CNN -- New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Thank you, Jean.
The chair of the House Oversight Committee is threatening longtime Jeffrey Epstein associate Leon Black with contempt of Congress. The committee interviewed Black in June, but he refused to answer questions about nondisclosure agreements between him and other women tied to Epstein, resulting in two subpoenas.
Oversight Chair James Comer says the billionaire has refused to fully comply. Black's attorney says he has turned over one document and accused the panel of a witch hunt.
An investigation is underway into a helicopter crash that left seven people dead in Kenya. Officials say five Americans are among the victims. The U.S. Embassy in Kenya has offered condolences to the victims' families.
Officials say it is still unclear what caused that crash. The helicopter went down near a mountain in central Kenya during a trip organized by a luxury tour agency.
You are watching THE STORY IS.
For our international viewers, "WORLD SPORT" is coming up next. For our viewers in North America, I'll be right back with more live news.
Thanks so much for being with us.
And by the way, we hope you'll join us tomorrow here on THE STORY IS. We will be joined for our panel by former L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti and Mike Murphy. And we will have Congressman Ro Khanna live with us on set.
All that tomorrow here on THE STORY IS.
But come back, especially if you're here in North America for more tonight. Thanks.
[01:41:31
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is already warning that there is a greater chance of strong weather next year. It says that El Nino is strengthening with a greater than 90 percent chance of a very strong event during the northern hemisphere fall and winter 2026 to '27.
The agency had previously been projecting the climate cycle would rank among the largest El Nino events in history. But the change in NOAA's forecast stems largely from how rapidly this current El Nino is intensifying.
Let's discuss all this with Rick Dickert, an AMS-certified broadcast meteorologist and my old pal from the local news days, joining us live from Saint George, Utah.
Rick, reunited and it feels so good. Great to have you on CNN for the first time.
RICK DICKERT, AMS-CERTIFIED BROADCAST METEOROLOGIST: Yes. It's great. Thanks for having me. And you mentioned it, a greater than 90 percent chance that we could see a very strong episode. Meaning sea surface temperatures of two degrees Celsius or above -- higher than what's average.
So when you fuel the ocean with that much warmth, you fuel the atmosphere with the heat and the energy, and you intensify storms across the southern tier states of the United States.
MICHAELSON: So how do we know that this is going to be so big? How do they determine that?
DICKERT: Well, we have forecast models now. When we put that data into the model, it outputs what the atmosphere and the ocean will look like. And all of the models have been trending over the last couple of months, that this will be what we call a very strong or super El Nino, the strongest on this scale.
We have weak El Ninos of a half a degree Celsius above average, with the average sea surface temperatures are out over the Equatorial Pacific.
We're looking at two degrees or above for several months, and we know that because we have observations out over the Pacific, we have buoy reports. We have ships with thermometers on them. And we have satellites which can actually detect the sea level height. When the ocean warms, it expands.
So the sea level actually rises a bit. Satellites can sense that. We can see this warming happening, Elex. And the models indicate that it will continue over the next couple of months and evolve into that super El Nino or very strong El Nino during the northern hemisphere's winter.
MICHAELSON: So what does that actually mean for the average person? What are the biggest impacts if we have a super El Nino?
DICKERT: It depends on what side of the planet you are on. In Indonesia and Australia, we're talking about heat, drought, wildfires.
Where in North America, the southern tier states from California through the Gulf Coast region into the southeast, we could see a very active winter. We could see strong storms impact that region with heavy rain.
Meanwhile, the northern tier states, the polar jet, the jet stream that typically brings the snow and cold to that portion of the country, likely will migrate north, keeping it milder and drier there.
So southern half of the country wet, stormy; northern half of the country could see the opposite, dry and milder than average.
MICHAELSON: And in terms of sort of the western region, there's been a lot of drought problems. We've certainly seen that in places like Arizona, here in California. Could this actually be a good thing in terms of drought?
DICKERT: Absolutely. We need the precipitation and the amount of water that we rely upon across the entire southwest, from Phoenix to L.A. to Vegas, into Utah. There's -- the population there is in demand of that water, and we just haven't had it.
The precipitation totals have been below average, rain and snow, off and on for the last several seasons. So this season could bring that much needed rain and snow.
The problem though, Elex, is if we get too much in too short of a period of time, that's where the problems come. A typical strong El Nino or very strong El Nino that we see in California brings powerful storms, sometimes damaging surf, wind and flooding rains, especially on those burn scar areas. Those recent burn scars, they become more vulnerable to those rock, mud and debris flows that we see.
MICHAELSON: Yes. And that could be the big story this winter, certainly in parts around here we can have real concerns about flooding.
[01:49:48]
MICHAELSON: Rick Dickert, great to see you again, my friend. Thanks so much for all this really important information.
DICKERT: Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: Coming up, a new cancer treatment showing some promising results. This is exciting. Details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: Now to a potential breakthrough in cancer treatment. Moderna and Merck say a personalized mRNA vaccine combined with the immunotherapy Keytruda succeeded in a late-stage trial for melanoma.
The vaccine is based on the same technology behind covid 19 vaccines. The study is ongoing, but so far results have shown the treatment prevented cancer from returning or spreading among high-risk melanoma patients.
[01:54:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: They take the mRNA that codes for those mutations in the patient's actual tumor, and they give that back to the patient and the patient makes antibodies to their own -- their own tumors. This is a customized, personalized vaccine to treat your own tumor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Melanoma is the deadliest form of skin cancer, affecting more than 1.5 million people in the U.S., according to the National Cancer Institute.
Moderna and Merck say they plan to file for approval from regulators within months. The announcement sent Moderna shares soaring as much as 160 percent.
Now to the top stories CNN is following in the day ahead.
An Australian woman convicted of murdering her in-laws by serving them poisonous mushrooms is now appealing her convictions. Lawyers for Erin Patterson raised several issues about the case during a hearing in Melbourne on Wednesday. Patterson has maintained that the poisonings were an accident.
Washington, D.C. and IndyCar are getting ready for the Freedom 250 Grand Prix, the first-ever motor race around the National Mall. President Trump signed an executive order on January calling for a race on the streets of the national capital to celebrate the country's 250th anniversary. The course for Sunday's race will go past some of Americas most historic landmarks and institutions.
President Trump expected to visit South Carolina on Friday to campaign for Senator Darline Graham. She is on the defensive after saying Tuesday that national security was not her thing. Graham says her constituents are more concerned about domestic issues and she will learn about national security.
Thanks for watching THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson. We'll see you back here tomorrow.
The news continues right here on CNN after a quick break.
[01:56:27]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
