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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Remembering Dolly Parton; CNN: Darline Graham Wins South Carolina GOP Senate Runoff; Dolly Parton, Country Music Star And Humanitarian, Dead At 80; Darline Graham Wins South Carolina GOP Senate Runoff; Canada Details Upcoming Retaliatory Tariffs on U.S. Goods; Dolly Parton Has Died at the Age of 80; Interview with Chief Curator of Grammy Museum Jasen Emmons; The Legacy of Dolly Parton. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired August 26, 2026 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:00]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Just away, leaving behind a legacy of music, humanitarianism and so much love. Why she's being remembered as one of America's best.

Plus, President Trump's pick, the late Senator Lindsey Graham's sister winning South Carolina's Republican primary. So what really matters most, experience or legacy? We'll discuss Ron Brownstein coming up.

But our top story, tribute pouring in for the legendary country music star and humanitarian Dolly Parton. She died Tuesday at 80 years old at her home in Nashville. Parton's family says at her request, they will hold a small private memorial service.

Parton's publicist says the trailblazing singer, songwriter died after a brief battle with cancer. She rose from humble beginnings to become one of the most beloved, unifying and philanthropic stars in the entire country. She was a fixture in pop culture and a career that spanned more than half a century across music, TV and movies.

Later in life, she funneled her success into philanthropy, founding the Imagination Library, which has gifted, get this, more than 300 million books to children all around the world. She's also funded research for life saving vaccines.

Parton had been open about various health issues in recent years, especially after the death of her husband of 59 years, Carl Dean. He died back in March of 2025. She said after Dean's passing, she didn't take care of herself and let a lot of things go. She should have been taken care of.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOLLY PARTON, AMERICAN MUSICIAN, SONGWRITER: I had no idea that so many people were so in love with our love story. But it is a heartbreaker, no doubt. And you know, I get I'll always deal with waves coming in and out, but at least I've had my work and Carl would expect that. That's all I've ever done, you know, so. But yes, thanks to everybody for the concern.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Parton's music captured the American working-class experience. She wrote more than 3,000 songs, released 49 albums, won 11 Grammy Awards, an Emmy Award, had two Academy Award nominations. She became one of the most successful country crossover artists ever, scoring regular hits on the pop charts. Building on her success, she launched a business empire that spans everything from makeup and jewelry to cookware, even a theme park, Dollywood. Parton says her younger self, growing up dirt poor in her homewards in Tennessee, would be proud of all that she accomplished.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PARTON: Well, I think she'd be very proud. I'm who she dreamed of being all those many years ago. And thank God for America that dreams can come true. And I always love those rags to riches stories because it shows you that dreams can come true. And living in a wonderful place like America, even coming from, you know, from the salt of the earth like we did, I think that makes for wonderful stories.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Of course, tributes for the singer have been pouring in. Fellow country crossover artist Taylor Swift has just shared a message on Dolly's passing, saying in part, "A world without Dolly doesn't feel possible, real or right. But because of the eternally generous way she spent her time on this earth and the countless lives she changed for the better, her legacy will be an everlasting one."

Joining us now live is Billboard's executive editor for the west coast in Nashville, Melinda Newman. Thanks so much for being with us. Welcome to The Story Is for the first time.

MELINDA NEWMAN, BILLBOARD'S EXECUTIVE EDITOR, WEST COAST AND NASHVILLE: Thank you, Elex. How are you?

MICHAELSON: I'm doing all right, although sad about Dolly, and I know a lot of people are as well. I know you are as well. You had the honor of interviewing her several times. What was she like to interview?

NEWMAN: She was wonderful to interview. She really brought all her energy with her, but she expected the same from you. She expected you to be very professional. She expected you to be on time. She expected you to be prepared above all else. And who wouldn't go into an interview with her giving her the same kind of respect that she gave you back? She was just wonderful. And I think just like Taylor Swift was saying, we've lost someone who we really saw as a universal, good, and unique talent that we won't ever see again.

MICHAELSON: You wrote a cover story on her about the business of Dolly, and that was right around the time of the Black Lives Matter movement. And you asked her about that, and that got just a little bit of attention. NEWMAN: It did. It did, because she said to me, and I quote, "who are

we to think our little white asses are the only ones that matter?" And she didn't usually discuss politics, but she had no problem saying what she felt was right.

She was very pro-LGBT. She was very open about just trying to follow Jesus and his teachings, and for her, that meant equality for all.

[01:05:00]

MICHAELSON: What did you learn about the business of Dolly?

NEWMAN: She was as incredible as she was a songwriter. She was equally savvy as a businesswoman. It's kind of hard to imagine someone being equal in equal measure in both of those pursuits. But she was.

She had a team around her, but they would be the first to say she was the one driving the team. She knew what her brand was. She knew what worked for her. And she was incredibly brilliant in business.

And when you think about this is a woman who I think graduated high school, I'm not so sure she even did that. She came to Nashville, I think the day after she graduated high school. But she was a brilliant businesswoman. There's I think they're going to be courses taught on the business of Dolly and how she just managed this whole world. And I think we'll see it a lot.

She said in the story that I did they had already started estate planning. Like they already knew what was going to happen after she died. So I think we'll see.

I don't know if it'll rival Elvis's legacy, but it may. It may.

MICHAELSON: And she did an interview with Morley Safer on 60 Minutes where she said, I look like a woman, but I think like a man, and that helps me a lot in business. And she was open about the fact that she created this caricature of herself and people underestimated her and then she took advantage of them, underestimating her. That was one of the keys to her business success.

NEWMAN: I think she was laughing all the way to the bank.

MICHAELSON: Right.

NEWMAN: And I think you probably only underestimated Dolly once at your own peril, quite frankly.

MICHAELSON: Yes. I mean, there's nobody else quite like her. And the reaction today, which has been as big a reaction as we've seen to a celebrity death in some time, is a reflection of just how loved she was and how unifying a figure she was in a world that is so divided. Melinda Newman, thank you so much for sharing some of your stories. Really appreciate it.

NEWMAN: Thank you. Take care. MICHAELSON: We are following another BIG story tonight. My four favorite words, election night in America. And CNN projects that new U.S. senator from South Carolina, Darline Graham will advance to the general election in November. She will defeat Congressmember Ralph Norman in the Republican Senate runoff.

Graham has held the seat for only about six weeks. She was appointed after the death of her brother, longtime Senator Lindsey Graham. Darline Graham will face Democratic nominee Dr. Annie Andrews in November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARLINE GRAHAM, (R-SC): I want to thank President Trump for all of his support and his endorsement. Mr. President, Lindsey truly loved you and viewed you as one of his closest friends. I appreciate that bond and appreciate all that you've done for our country. Our victory would not have been possible without you. And we are truly grateful.

South Carolina is truly Trump country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Senior political analyst and a Bloomberg opinion columnist. Ron, you have sat next to me on this set the last three Tuesdays. We've talked about this race with Katie Porter and Matt Klink, all with different takes on what would happen. What do you make of the final result, your big takeaway?

RON BROWNSTEIN, BLOOMBERG OPINION COLUMNIST: You know, I think there's a short term and a long-term implication of this. I mean, the short term is that Donald Trump is still very powerful in the Republican Party. He's not as omnipotent as he seemed a year ago. His candidates have lost a number of races and primaries in the last few weeks.

But when he puts his full weight behind a candidate by going to the state, putting money on tv, he still was able to, you know, give her a substantial boost and help get her over the top. I think the longer- term implications of this to me are even more significant. I mean, no one could have watched that debate a few weeks ago and thought that Darline Graham, you know, remotely possessed the kind of experience and the knowledge and the gravitas even that you would expect in a U.S. senator. But that really isn't what people are looking for anymore.

I mean, it's less about the individual and more about kind of a parliamentary choice of someone who will vote with the party. And that is something that she can do. And I just look at this as kind of a change in the way we are thinking about what the Senate is, where it's less of a comparison between two individuals and really even intraparty or inter party, more about which side you want to have in control of the nation's direction.

[01:10:00]

MICHAELSON: So what is then under what you're saying, the qualifications to be a United States senator?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, it's basically being in line, you know, with the dominant view in your state at that moment. You know, one of the biggest changes in the Senate in our lifetime, Elex, is that the correlation between how states vote for president and how they vote for the Senate has gotten so much more intense. You know, there were 38 states during the 1980s that voted three times for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

And at the end of that, in January, 89 Democrats still had a majority of the Senate seats. From those 38 states, fast forward to today. There are 25 states that have voted three times for Trump. Democrats now have zero of those 50.

I mean, and Republicans only have one of the 38 in the 19 states that have voted three times against them. Now, that may be because all of those individual candidate comparisons or, you know, more favorable to the, to the dominant party, but I kind of doubt that and that it's really more about kind of, again, people are picking senators and House members basically around which party they want in control more than the comparisons through.

I don't think it's absolute. I mean, you know, in a different state, in a more competitive state, nominating Graham would have been, you know, might move some voters. But in a solidly red state, I think voters are basically looking for someone who is, you know, essentially going to vote with the party and not really cause too much fuss otherwise.

MICHAELSON: All that being said, the Democrats are doing very well in the polls right now in several states that President Trump won.

BROWNSTEIN: Absolutely.

MICHAELSON: We're talking about North Carolina, Ohio, Texas, Georgia.

BROWNSTEIN: Alaska.

MICHAELSON: Those are all states that Trump won in 2024. Alaska, potentially. So that kind of flies in the face of everything that has been happening. Why do you think that is?

BROWNSTEIN: Because his approval rating is so low, right? I mean, if you go back to his first term, as we've talked about before, Susan Collins was the only Republican Senate incumbent or challenger who won in 2018 or 2020. In a state where more people disapproved than approve of his performance as president.

Some Democrats have won in 22 in states where more people disapprove than approved of Biden. But because Trump so dominates the Republican Party and gives so little room for people to distance themselves or really express any kind of individuality, it's been harder to escape that undertow. So right now, his approval rating in public polling is well below 50 in all of those red states that you just mentioned.

I mean, in every single one of them, North Carolina, Alaska, Ohio, Texas, I mean, all of them, Iowa. He is below 50 at this point.

So we're going to see. This is going to be an interesting test about. You have kind of two major forces in American politics colliding. The inability of Democrats to win in red state Senate races and the inability of Republicans to win in states where Trump is under 50, where he may be even on Election Day, in places where he won by double digits in 2024.

MICHAELSON: And lastly, we see all your political books, all your presidential biographies. But I got to ask you about the big story of the day. What is your favorite Dolly Parton song of all-time, Ron Brownstein?

BROWNSTEIN: Oh, no, no question, "Jolene." And can I say, like, can I say that I've written two books about the intersection of culture and politics over my life. And one thing that really strikes me is that if you look through history, the towering cultural figures are often remembered much longer, more fondly and really more in 3D than their political contemporaries at the same time. I could not tell you who the prime minister of France was in 1924, but I can tell you about what Hemingway and Fitzgerald were doing there.

And you know, it's really true. Dolly Parton is going to be remembered far longer than almost anyone on the political stage today. I mean, cultural figures just have an enormous impact on the way we live. And they really burrow into our hearts in a way that goes beyond what almost any political figure can do.

MICHAELSON: Although love him or hate him, I do think Donald Trump's going to be remembered and talked about forever.

BROWNSTEIN: He will be remembered. He will be remembered. I said almost any political figure.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, yes. Ron Brownstein, thank you so much. Appreciate it as always.

Next on The Story Is we're talking more about Dolly parton, including her 1980 film 9 to 5. More than four decades later, the iconic movie still resonating.

Just ahead, the filmmakers behind a documentary exploring its impact today about the changing role of women in the workface -- workforce. They are live with me on studio next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:19:06]

MICHAELSON: Back to our top story now. The death of country music star and humanitarian Dolly Parton at 80 years old. Memorial growing outside her home near Nashville, Tennessee. And a sign on the gate reads we will always love you. The Grand Ole Opry also writing we will always love you in its post on social media. The message adds, there's no doubt Dolly's mark on the world and on us here at the Grand Ole Opry will be deeply felt for generations to come. There will never, ever be another one like her.

Twin brothers, Gary and Larry Lane knew Dolly Parton pretty well. They directed and produced two documentaries about the country music legend "Still Working 9 to 5" and "Hollywood to Dollywood."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARTON: My boys here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Dolly. Love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Now live on set here in Los Angeles. Welcome to the story is for the first time. What did Dolly Parton mean to you?

[01:20:06]

GARY LANE, DIRECTOR, "STILL WORKING 9 TO 5" AND "HOLLYWOOD TO DOLLYWOOD": She meant so much to us. She's just -- She's one of those people that touches you in so many ways. And, you know, I heard Kaitlin Collins talk a little earlier about going to Dollywood.

Every year we would do that. We were from North Carolina. We would go to the park when she was there, and it was kind of just like -- like Mickey Mouse on the park almost, because she's just that figure.

So to go from being a fan of hers at Dollywood, and then we would interview her on red carpets, and she just kind of always makes you feel like she knows who you are, and she's just a genuine person, and we love her.

MICHAELSON: And, Lary, she did know who you guys were, clearly, from her interaction. I mean, how. How was that for you to even sort of experience that?

LARY LANE, PRODUCER, "STILL WORKING 9 TO 5" AND "HOLLYWOOD TO DOLLYWOOD": Yes, absolutely. Getting to meet her, you know, kind of like he said, on the fan level. But then we started bringing projects to, you know, Danny Nozell. Her managers said, we'd like to do a documentary. And so, then Dolly would always, you know, come on with us and do it.

And she was just always great us. I mean, even in the last documentary, we needed several pickup lines, and Dolly did pick up lines for her. She's just incredible person.

MICHAELSON: Well, and one of those documentaries is about working 9 to 5, right? And you interviewed Dolly and Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin and the whole crew and sort of looked at where women in the workplace are these days. Dolly a part of that?

G. LANE: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Why was that important to you, and why was that important to her? G. LANE: It was just really important because when Dolly, Lily, and Jane did the Emmys in 2017, we kind of was like this. They just had this reunion moment, and we're like, look at that movie. It's been a movie. It's been a song. It's been a TV show, a musical.

So many things. But nothing's really changed in 40 years for working women and what they were initially trying to do for the film.

MICHAELSON: Some things but not enough.

G. LANE: Some things but not enough. Yes. So we kind of had an idea. We took it to Steve Summers, who's Dolly's creative manager, and he really liked the idea.

And he said, I think if Dolly would do this first, I think she would bring the others, which is exactly what happened. And Dolly was our first interview. And, you know, one thing I'll tell you about Dolly, the first interview, we had a lot of questions, because that was the first one. And she got the question list, and she told Steve, she goes, there's so many questions here.

I want to go 30 minutes early and answer all their questions.

L. LANE: To make sure we get through everything.

L. LANE: That's just the kind of person she is. So she did bring -- you know, we did Lily and Jane, and we did Allison Janney, Rita Moreno.

MICHAELSON: Dabney.

G. LANE: Amazing people. Even Dabney before we lost him. So we're so proud of that film to have it out in the world now, because we're kind of losing a lot of the -- the original cast now.

MICHAELSON: Which is hard -- hard to imagine, you know, Jane Fonda still going strong in her late 80s.

G. LANE: I would have never thought that I would wake up this morning and hear that Dolly had passed.

MICHAELSON: Dolly really became a gay icon as well. Why do you think that is?

L. LANE: I just think Dolly, on all interviews, she loves everybody. She accepts everybody. She always gives you a sense of acceptance. I mean, like I said, there's, you know, Southern Baptist ministers that are morning tonight, and there's also drag queens that are morning tonight. Because everybody just loved Dolly across the board.

Republican, Democrat. Everybody said at her concerts, you'd literally have a drag queen sitting next to a minister. And that's the only concert that would probably pull in all types around the world. And I just feel like in 1997, the world stopped with Diana. This is our moment with Dolly, you know, because, I mean, I don't know there'll ever be another person that kind of stops the world like she did today. And it's just --

MICHAELSON: Why do you -- why -- what can we learn from her on that sense?

G. LANE: I think you can learn from Dolly. Dolly never judged anybody. She would always say, I'm not a judge. God is supposed to judge anybody if they need to be judged.

So, I love everybody. I don't judge anyone. I think you should love the God core in everybody, and I think that's words to live by. Dolly loved everybody, and we kind of need that more in the world today.

So it's even more of a sad moment that she's gone, because her philosophy should be out there for everybody.

MICHAELSON: And you guys obviously thought of her as this sort of almost godlike figure. And then you get to know her, was she even better in person? How did the real-life Dolly compare to the image that so many of us saw?

L. LANE: I think when Dolly, when you meet her, like, like Gary always says, she always makes you feel like you're the only one in the room. One of our really dear friends was Leslie Jordan, and he finally got to meet her, like, a year before he passed away. But he said when he met her, she was just, like, petting him and just making sure he was okay. She's just that type of person.

She's more worried about you. But it's really crazy to see when people come up to Dolly and meet her for the first time, she just has such an. Such an impact on that person's life. People start crying --

G. LANE: MICHAELSON: She puts you at ease, and you never know what she's going to say. Because we were waiting for her and Kenny Rogers to come down this one red carpet, and she. When she saw her, she goes, Kenny, these are my twins. And me and him were like, just don't pass out.

L. LANE: I'm not -- I'm not passing out.

G. LANE: Just in the interview, but it's just that you never know what's going to come out of her mouth. But she was just always so gracious. She always hugged us. So, you know, you take those moments and you hold them a little closer.

And a lot of people didn't get to meet her, but. But she still had that impact on her. If you didn't interview on a red carpet or do a movie with her, but you knew her song that you loved, it still had an impact on you.

[01:25:02]

L. LANE: And I think tonight, everybody feels like, I will always love you. That's her goodbye to them. I mean, I think the world is just social media. It's just everybody's embraced her.

MICHAELSON: Yesh. Gary Lane and Larry Lane, thank you so much for coming in. I know it's a tough day for you guys, but we appreciate you sharing your story here on The Story Is.

And reminder, in lieu of flowers, the family has requested donations to Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, which of course, they have given over 300 million books out through that Imagination Library, a great cause to support.

Still ahead here on The Story Is major win for Senator Darline Graham and President Trump. Our political panel back to break down Graham's runoff victory in South Carolina.

Plus, talk about Canadian tariffs and more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:30:20]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson.

Let's take a look at today's top stories.

Legendary country music star and humanitarian Dolly Parton passed away at the age of 80. Parton passed away on Tuesday at her Nashville home after a brief battle with cancer.

She was known for more than just her timeless songs. Her father's inability to read inspired her Imagination Library, which has gifted more than 300 million books to children across the globe.

CNN projects that Darline Graham will win the Republican U.S. Senate runoff in South Carolina. She defeated House Republican Ralph Norman.

Graham got a big boost from President Trump, who campaigned with her over the weekend. She will face Democrat Annie Andrews for the seat held by her brother, the late Senator Lindsey Graham.

And Canada is releasing its plan for retaliatory tariffs on about $20 billion worth of U.S. goods. Canada had promised a dollar-for-dollar response to the Trump administrations new 50 percent tariffs on many Canadian goods.

Canada's countermeasures will begin September 8th. They will cover hundreds of products, including a 50 percent levy on U.S. steel and aluminum.

Let's bring back our political panel. Adam Mockler is the host of "The Adam Mockler Show" on the Meidas Touch Network, and Katie Zacharia is a senior communications advisor for President Trump's Truth Social, and Trump Media and Technology Group.

Welcome back, both of you.

Katie, let's start with the senator, Darline Graham's victory, obviously helped by President Trump who endorsed her, campaigned for her, made robocalls for her -- all the rest of it.

But it also sort of seems to be an inflection point for the Republican Party, because she's a different kind of Republican than her brother.

I mean, saying that national security is not her thing, saying that she didn't really agree with him on illegal immigration, that she's going to be harder on illegal immigration.

It seems like Darline Graham is a different kind of senator than Lindsey Graham, potentially.

KATIE ZACHARIA, TRUMP SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR: I think she is, absolutely. Because she's a different person and she has her own track record of experience. She worked in administrative -- as an administrator in the state of South Carolina. For decades, ran the agency with hundreds of millions of dollars of budget and over 150 employees.

So I think she has a very vastly different career than her brother, who was a career politician. And I think she's going to bring a completely different set of circumstances and agenda and experiences to the Senate.

And I'm actually looking forward to seeing a refreshed perspective on what she will bring. And she's also very loyal to the president, to the Republican Party, and will serve the people of South Carolina.

MICHAELSON: But does it kind of indicate the fact that the Republican Party itself has changed a lot since Lindsey Graham first got in there?

ZACHARIA: Well, I mean, were looking at kind of this -- a situation where you have Iran and we're in the -- we're in the thick of Iran. And Lindsey Graham was a very staunch advocate and had been for a very long time, not just on Iran, but international, big in Ukraine and always a very outspoken proponent on the wars that either President Bush or otherwise.

MICHAELSON: I mean, it seems like this could be a bit of an inflection point for how the party's changing.

ADAM MOCKLER, MEIDASTOUCH NETWORK: Yes. I mean, I think it tracks based on what I know about MAGA. They seem to prioritize loyalty to Trump over deep -- or deep policy knowledge, sorry.

And I don't know, it might be a hot take, but I appreciate meritocracy in America. I appreciate people earning this. And I appreciate people having the skill set to take on these challenges as a senator.

And saying that, like foreign policy is not your thing deeply worries me as a young person --

MICHAELSON: National security, it's not --

(CROSSTALKING)

MOCKLER: Sorry -- national security is not her thing. That's even scarier, to be honest. What do you mean national security isn't your thing? We're in a war with Iran. That is ratcheting up our deficit and our debt. And that's going to fall on my generation.

I mean, we pay $1 trillion per year just in the interest. I don't think Darline Graham is going to be voting these wars down.

MICHAELSON: You're shaking your head.

ZACHARIA: Well, first of all, I think MAGA is not just loyal to President Trump. I think -- well, are you MAGA? Can you speak for MAGA? Because I absolutely can.

I can say that, for instance, why I'm grateful we have President Trump is not just Iran as a -- as a standalone issue. But when you look at the greater threat and we've discussed this at length of China, and what China has done, what he has done with Venezuela, what he has done with retaliatory tariffs on China, and bringing the fentanyl deaths down, because he said, I will give you a 20 percent tariff on your country if you continue sending manufacturing precursors, sending them over to Mexico, and then over our border. Our fentanyl deaths are down --

(CROSSTALKING)

ZACHARIA: -- exorbitantly. And our border is closed.

I think we are in a very, very difficult set of circumstances with Iran.

MOCKLER: Because of Donald Trump.

[01:34:48]

ZACHARIA: And I think President Trump is doing everything in his power to --

MOCKLER: To ruin us?

(CROSSTALKING)

MICHAELSON: Let her finish. Let her finish.

ZACHARIA: To hopefully keep Iran from having a nuclear weapon. And if it's your position that the world is safer with Iran having a nuclear weapon, I would love to hear that argument, because --

MOCKLER: Why would I ever say that?

ZACHARIA: -- that is why were there.

MOCKLER: No. I mean --

ZACHARIA: Well, you are hostile against it. And the key reason that we are there is what he has said over and over and over again, which is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon --

MOCKLER: I'm hostile against this war.

ZACHARIA: Your position is they can have a nuclear weapon or should.

MOCKLER: No. No, of course not.

ZACHARIA: Then I'd like to hear that.

MOCKLER: I'm hostile against this war because I like what when America wins. I don't like when America enters endless conflicts and that's what this is.

Donald Trump --

ZACHARIA: So how do you win here?

MOCKLER: Donald Trump went into this war with four different objectives: regime change, denuclearization, ending their funding of proxies and ending their missile capacity.

ZACHARIA: How do you win here.

MOCKLER: Right now -- right now, Donald Trump has put himself in an impossible situation. Where is the nuclear material right now?

ZACHARIA: How do you win this war?

MOCKLER: Where is the nuclear material right now?

ZACHARIA: Do you believe -- so, do you believe that there wasn't nuclear material?

MOCKLER: No, no, no. Where is it right now?

ZACHARIA: Is that your position?

MOCKLER: No. Do you -- where is the nuclear material?

MICHAELSON: So how do you win this war right now?

ZACHARIA: Well, I am not President Trump and I am not in briefed in the national security briefings and where we are. I think his blockade was absolutely brilliant with the Strait of Hormuz.

MOCKLER: It's still close.

ZACHARIA: He has leveraged -- he has leveraged the surrounding regional leaders, which other people had not done in the past. Other presidents had not done. And he has brought in allies and even adversaries to -- and as China, as they were saying that they were going to start sending missiles. He brought China back to heel.

(CROSSTALKING)

MICHAELSON: Go ahead.

MOCKLER: So I do not think Iran should have a nuclear weapon. The world would be safer if they don't have a nuclear weapon. But the nuclear material is still in Iran right now. It's buried under rubble and is not inaccessible.

ZACHARIA: So do you think we should have a further military excursion?

MOCKLER: I am not for further military excursions. We are 180 days into this war that was supposed to be four weeks long.

You know what my solution would be? A diplomatic joint comprehensive plan of action. It's almost like we had that back in 2016.

ZACHARIA: With Iran. Like as they negotiate -- they have they been negotiating?

MOCKLER: They haven't been negotiating. Donald Trump's been vacillating between the carrot and the stick.

(CROSSTALKING)

ZACHARIA: Do you think the --

MICHAELSON: Well, of course, you're referencing the Obama nuclear deal.

Let's talk about something else that is being negotiated right now, which is tariffs with Canada, which just have been announced.

There's clearly been a breakdown in the negotiations between the White House and the Canadian leadership. Is this a smart strategy?

MOCKLER: I don't think it's a smart strategy. I think that having strong international order, a strong alliance with countries around us is very, very important. Trump has isolated us from the globe by placing tariffs on our allies, moving closer to North Korea while pulling our troops out of South Korea.

You don't think North Korea is a good country, right? So he's basically said Kim Jong-un treats him so well that he is getting closer to North Korea. He's very soft on Russia. He's even oftentimes kind of weirdly soft on China.

Donald Trump has repeatedly botched this foreign policy. And again, I want to see an America that's strong on the global stage, not one that's isolating Canada.

(CROSSTALKING)

MICHAELSON: Canada's tariffs.

ZACHARIA: Well Canada tariffs, but I do want you to answer how is he soft on China.

MOCKLER: Donald --

ZACHARIA: I studied this very hard. This is one of my biggest reasons I support President Trump is because he's the only president that has gone after China the way he has. No other president has done this.

And as much as he saves face and gives respect to Xi Jinping, he is extremely tough on China behind the scenes.

MOCKLER: He seems to be kind of vacillating on our commitments to Taiwan. Do you think that we should protect Taiwan?

ZACHARIA: How is he tough on China?

MOCKLER: Because Taiwan --

ZACHARIA: How is he lightweight on China?

MOCKLER: Because Taiwan is a very important international issue. And right now, people are heading into the Senate that don't even know a single thing about Taiwan like Darline.

(CROSSTALKING)

ZACHARIA: That's not a policy position on China. You keep going back to Darline Graham? You're not actually answering my question.

MOCKLER: Should we protect Taiwan?

ZACHARIA: How has he been softer on China? Specifically, give me -- this isn't about Taiwan. This is about Beijing.

MOCKLER: Taiwan is like interconnected.

ZACHARIA: How has been soft on China?

MICHAELSON: Ok, we're getting -- we're getting off --

MOCKLER: Is Taiwan not connected directly to China?

MICHAELSON: Of course. The Taiwan issue is, of course, connected to China, but also the policy hasn't changed on Taiwan.

I mean, there's been stuff that's said, but the actual policy has not changed on Taiwan as of yet, hasn't changed in generations for the United States.

MOCKLER: Of course.

MICHAELSON: Well, let's -- I'll give Katie her point. What is your -- how you think that President Trump has not been tough on China?

MOCKLER: I mean, I think I've explained that. I think that when he's vacillating you said stuffs been said on Taiwan, but it seems like he's retreating from this strategic ambiguity strategy that we've been had -- we've been using for a while.

Strategic ambiguity is when we don't actually say what we're going to do. But Trump has backed off of that. I mean, we should be very strongly fighting for international rights, for sovereignty of Taiwan, of Ukraine. I would call that not being assertive on the global stage.

Also, here's a great one. How about tariffing Canada, which makes Canada now do trade with China. Canada is turning towards the E.U. and China, and doing more trade with them. Do you deny that?

ZACHARIA: Well, I would first say China has a huge problem with the population.

MOCKLER: But no, no, no. Let's answer the question. When Canada is moving towards China -- you tried to pin me down.

(CROSSTALKING)

ZACHARIA: I'm actually answering your question.

MICHAELSON: Do your point. And then we're going to -- we're going to end on something nice. Last point.

[01:39:47]

ZACHARIA: I would say Canada already has a huge problem in the fact that China has, by and large, taken over large parts of Vancouver and city areas with the Chinese population. You don't even need a visa as a Chinese citizen to go to Canada anymore. And I think that is for them a much greater issue with China.

MICHAELSON: Let's end with something nice because it's got a little heated. The idea of Dolly Parton -- why? Why has she brought everybody together? Your thoughts.

ZACHARIA: Well, I p-- watching Dolly Parton growing up was just amazing -- she's an amazing woman. She had so much grace and pizzazz and energy, but also an ability to connect with everyone.

And so Dolly Parton for me was a legend. The big, beautiful blond hair, amazing personality. But she had a warmth that I feel is missing (ph) and a talent that is just for the ages. So she is dearly missed. That was tragic news today.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

MOCKLER: When I first heard the news, I realized that this transcends generations because people in my generation were reacting. My grandparents were equally reacting.

You have to be quite the figure to be able to have an impact on multiple generations. And even I grew up a little bit disconnected from like my grandparents and my mom who were super, super into Dolly Parton.

But I still see friends of my age posting on their stories all across the political spectrum. Pretty sure the DSA and Trump both said, hey, rest in peace to Dolly Parton.

So this transcends generations, age, political spectrum. It's really, really sad.

MICHAELSON: And even brings Adam Mockler and Katie Zacharia together. So there we go. Shake it out. In spirit of Dolly Parton. Thank you guys for coming on. We appreciate it. ZACHARIA: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Civil debate. That's what we got to do. We got to start talking to each other.

You're watching THE STORY IS.

For our international viewers, "WORLD SPORT" is next. For our viewers in North America, I'll be right back.

[01:41:39]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: Take a look at this retrospective of Dolly Parton's career and most iconic fashion moments at the Grammy Museum. The exhibit "Diamond in a Rhinestone World", features some of her most cherished outfits, including costumes from her most memorable album covers, music videos, and live performances. That exhibit was from several years back.

Before that exhibit opened, Dolly Parton said she had a hard time letting go of some of her favorite costumes, but she said she was excited to be included.

I spoke with Jasen Emmons, the Grammy Museum's chief curator, about that amazing collection.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Talk to us about Dolly Parton's importance in the history of the Grammys.

JASEN EMMONS, CHIEF CURATOR, GRAMMY MUSEUM: I mean, Dolly had 55 Grammy nominations. She won 11 Grammys and really is one of those artists who transcends genre like she started in country, of course. We think of her country star, but she's so much more than that. A pop star, somebody who could play anything and was an incredible songwriter.

MICHAELSON: I mean, this museum is about the history of music, sort of what is Dolly Parton's importance to the history of music?

EMMONS: I mean, at the heart of it, she's one of the greatest songwriters ever in America, an incredible storyteller. But also somebody who could write in almost any genre, whether it was bluegrass, country, pop. She was able to move seamlessly among different genres and also appeal to everyone.

MICHAELSON: Yes. I mean, it's hard to think of anybody who's more popular.

EMMONS: Yes, yes. It's just one of those people that I think at the essence, it was whatever she did, it was Dolly, which was always so appealing that no matter what kind of music you listen to, you're drawn to her.

MICHAELSON: And she had a role here. You guys honored her here a few years back, right?

EMMONS: We did. In 2019, we did the first exhibit she ever did outside Dollywood in Tennessee. So really honored to be able to sort of showcase her work here at the Grammy Museum.

MICHAELSON: And what was that like? What that looked like? What did you learn from that?

EMMONS: I mean, you know, lots of costumes. She's kept almost everything. She has warehouses full of things. So lots of costumes, style, her maximalist style is such a part of Dolly.

The wigs, she has over -- she had over 3,000 wigs, I think over 6,000 shoes. And I think really kind of what it showed was, of course, great songwriter, but we think of her as such a great style icon. Her look is just so embedded in our culture.

MICHAELSON: And if you had to describe the Dolly Parton legacy in like a sentence, what would it be?

EMMONS: I think an incredibly gifted songwriter in entertainment, an entertainer who sort of broke down tropes about females and did it with a sense of humor and incredible sense of smarts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Our thanks to the folks at the Grammy Museum.

Coming up on THE STORY IS a final look at Dolly Parton's life and legacy.

We'll be right back.

[01:48:18]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOLLY PARTON, MUSICIAN: Well, I think it's wonderful to have ambition. You got to get out and work, too. I mean, a lot of women can kind of hide behind a lot of stuff and just use the excuse that I didn't make it because I was a girl.

Well, you can make it if you'll get out and be willing to sacrifice and work for it. Ain't no man going to stop you if you've got the talent. You might have to work a little harder in your area, but it can be done.

And I am a prime example.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MICHAELSON: Dolly Parton speaking there with actress Reese Witherspoon back in 2018. The music legend will be remembered for so much more than her songs.

CNN's Randi Kaye has a look at Dolly's legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She was, quite simply, an American original.

(MUSIC)

KAYE: In her 70-year show business career. Dolly Parton sang, acted, and charmed her way into the hearts of millions, and built a music catalog for the ages.

PARTON: I love that I can write because I can express everything.

KAYE: Among her iconic hits, a plea to a local bank teller Dolly thought might have eyes for her husband, "Jolene".

(MUSIC)

KAYE: Always true to her Tennessee roots, she was also a pioneer in the world of country-pop crossover artists.

(MUSIC)

KAYE: Dolly songs were so popular, in fact, not only were they hits for her, they became hits for others.

(MUSIC)

KAYE: In time, the movie industry beckoned.

(MUSIC)

KAYE: It turned out Dolly Parton was as memorable on the silver screen as she was on the stage.

PARTON: Well, why wouldn't he? He's got you for poisoning, and me for roping him, and you for acting like he was the first prize at a turkey shoot.

Well, thank goodness, because this is going in the hairdo hall of fame.

[01:54:42]

KAYE: She was so beloved that in 2019, the "New York Times" declared that if there was one thing Americans could agree on, even in hyperpolarized times, it was their love for Dolly Parton.

And if there were those who didn't take her seriously because of the hair and the makeup and the outfits, well, that didn't bother Dolly, who famously said it takes a lot of money to look this cheap, and made it clear early on that she was in on the joke.

PARTON: I know exactly what I'm doing, and I can change it at any time. I make more jokes about myself than anybody because I enjoy it. I know, like I say, I am sure of myself as a person.

KAYE: As for her legacy, Dolly Parton pointed to her worldwide Imagination Library program funded by her Dollywood Foundation. The program gives books away to preschool-age children every month.

PARTON: That's been a wonderful program because my dad couldn't read and write, and so that's what inspired me to do that program.

When you think of me when I'm gone, I'd like you to smile, to think, oh, she was funny. I would just like to be known for what I think I am, which is just a regular person. I always say I'm a -- I'm a workhorse that looks like a show horse. I just hope I leave something good behind for other people to enjoy.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: A workhorse that looks like a show horse. Our thanks to Randi Kaye.

And our thanks to you for watching THE STORY IS.

I'm Elex Michaelson.

The news continues right here on CNN after a break. I'll see you tomorrow.

And Dolly, we all will always love you

[01:56:15]

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