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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Trump Hits Deep Red States on Midterms Tour; Flooded Roads, Cars Submerged in Istanbul; Student Protests Grow in Albania; Pope Shares First Message After Lung Cancer Surgery; Orangutans Found in India May Be Part of Wildlife Trade; Markets Tumble After Inflations Reports; Americans Continue the Burden of Sky-High Inflation; Ukraine to Resume Strikes on Russian Refineries; New York City Moving Closer to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages. Aired 2:30-3:30a ET

Aired October 15, 2026 - 02:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:31:27]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back to "The Story Is." I'm Elex Michaelson. Let's take a look at today's top stories.

President Trump is scheduled to take part in two tele-rallies from the Oval Office in the day ahead. He campaigned Wednesday in Republican stronghold districts in Arizona and Montana, telling supporters once again to pretend that his name is on the midterm ballot. Some GOP candidates are faced with the dilemma of appearing with the unpopular president or alienating his MAGA base.

Major floods swept through Istanbul on Wednesday after heavy rain across Turkey. The floods caused when a major creek overflowed, causing roads to collapse in two districts in Istanbul. Floodwaters were so high in some areas that parked cars became submerged, and only the top of the vehicles could be seen in this video. There have been no reports of serious injuries, according to the Associated Press, which is pretty amazing given that video.

Protesters clashed with police in Albania's capital on Wednesday as nationwide demonstrations over education issues and corruption turned violent. Video shows protesters throwing stones and police using water cannons. Just a day before, police detained several protesters in a similar demonstration. Albania is the latest of a growing number of countries to see a rise in student-led protests.

Anthony Scaramucci was once a staunch supporter of President Trump. He served a famously brief stint as White House Communications Director, holding the role for just 11 days before he was forced out. But since then, he's found success as a commentator and podcaster, often critical of the president. He's also an author.

His latest book, which came out last month, is called "All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump." He argues that those three decisions were the trade deal with China passed under President Bill Clinton, George W. Bush's wars and tax cuts, and the bank bailouts under Bush and President Barack Obama.

I spoke with him earlier and asked him why he considers those decisions, in his words, to be catastrophic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FINANCIER, AUTHOR AND PODCASTER: Well, they're linked. And again, the book is not a polemic or partisan diatribe or anything like that. It's just an economic and political and historical observation. And the message of the book, Elex, is that we can have very smart, well-intended people that are making decisions expecting one outcome, and they get a totally different outcome.

And so, in Bill Clinton's case, bringing China into the WTO was OK, but what he did was not check them, and there were no politicians that checked them. So they had emerging market rights. When they got to the size of Germany, let's say, they should have been treated like Germany, and they were still given those emerging preferences.

But as it relates to the war, we went to war. We expected that war to last months. It lasted decades, Elex. We cut taxes twice, once in '01, once in '03. Never in U.S. history did we do that before. And so you had two wars, two tax cuts, two decades of fighting, and that was an $8 trillion credit card expense that we put on the American people. And that's 20 percent of our national debt right there.

And so that caused this sort of trajectory to go haywire. And so on those two things, we hurt people's wages. And then because of the deficit spending, we have to monetize the debt. And so that created an affordability crisis for these people, which is why they're so angry.

[02:35:00]

And then the last piece, we gave the money to the banks. And I understand why we had to bail out the banks. I write about that, the historical analysis why. But they should have left some money aside for poor and middle-income people, lower middle-income people. They didn't do that.

The fat cats at the banks paid their buddies, 5,000 people, Elex, got paid $1 million or more in bonuses the year of the bailout. And that, you know, created a lot of anger in the country. That's where Occupy Wall Street came from. That's where the Tea Party movement came from.

And I submit to people that those two movements got together, had a baby, and they named the baby MAGA. And Donald Trump came in and became the godfather of that baby. And that's where we are. We're in a populist divide, where there's people that feel left out of the system. And if you're not going to help me, I would rather hire somebody, like literally an orange wrecking ball, to smash into the system and hurt you.

And we have to heal that.

MICHAELSON: A big part of this also is going to be who's going to lead the country next. You know, we have the midterms in a few weeks. After that, President Trump is essentially a lame duck. And there's real thought about what happens after him.

You've talked a lot about the fact that you describe the Republican Party as essentially a cult of personality. And the one thing that's holding all these folks together is their love of Donald Trump. But in reality, they don't agree on that much, other the fact that they love Trump.

And if you pull Trump out of it, you end up with very different visions for the party. Which vision do you think wins out if Donald Trump is no longer leading the party?

SCARAMUCCI: I mean, it is such a fascinating question. And I think there will be an intellectual civil war for the future of that party.

I do believe that the Trump movement, the MAGA movement, is a personality cult. And so when Trump's political life extinguishes in January of 2029, there will be a vacuum at the top. And I think there'll be a fight between moderate Republicans, populist Republicans, and a whole host of people for the direction of that party.

And so, one of the reasons why I didn't leave the party is I'd like to be a part of that intellectual conversation. I'd like to get things back to something that is a little bit more healing and a little bit less dividing. You know, I mean, even if we just calm down the president's Twitter feed, where he's running A.I. things of him defeating tigers and all this sort of stuff on there, that would be a plus for the country.

MICHAELSON: Is there a presidential candidate on the right that you're excited about?

SCARAMUCCI: I don't really see anybody on the right yet that I'm excited about. But I think this is going to be an election of surprise. Vance looks like the heir apparent right now. But you and I know that two years in politics, man, look out.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

SCARAMUCCI: That's like two decades in other parts of our society.

MICHAELSON: That's a lot of scaramoochies (ph) in two years.

(LAUGH)

SCARAMUCCI: Exactly.

MICHAELSON: And in terms of the Democratic Party, they also are in a bit of a fight in terms of where the party goes from here. We see some energy on the left with the Democratic Socialists. We see more moderates as well pushing back.

Is there anybody on that side that you're especially excited about in terms of the future vision or brand of the Democratic Party?

SCARAMUCCI: Listen, I know you know Governor Newsom well, and I know you live in California. I think California's gotten a bad rap by the right. And I will tell you this, the right knows who their big adversary is, because they went after Hillary Clinton for two decades before she ran for president.

And they knew in 2018-19 that Joe Biden was their main adversary, which is why they got Trump to call President Zelenskyy to see if they could get some dirt on him. The right spends an hour a night on Gavin Newsom, trying to take down the economy of California and all the good things that are happening in California. And so to me, I think he's the number one person that they're the most afraid of.

Now, I don't know if Gavin is running or not running, but he's one hell of a debater. He slayed Ron DeSantis a couple of years ago on Fox News, and he's a hell of a debater. And he has the mechanisms and the machinery around him, and certainly the name recognition.

Does he have problems in California? I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm sure he does. But California went from being the fifth largest economy, if you pulled it out of the United States, to the fourth largest. It has more startups in California than Texas and Florida combined. And California is bringing $86 billion into the Treasury of the United States, more than it's taking out of the Treasury.

[02:40:00]

And of course, those red states like Texas and Florida are in a negative position with the government. So he has a narrative.

MICHAELSON: Of course, the narrative against California would be the most homeless people, some of the highest cost of living, some of the biggest, highest gas taxes and --

SCARAMUCCI: Taxes.

MICHAELSON: -- taxes. And --

SCARAMUCCI: Yeah.

MICHAELSON: -- so there is also a counter narrative to that.

SCARAMUCCI: Yeah. Red tape, red tape.

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

SCARAMUCCI: It's often called blue tape. Yep.

MICHAELSON: Yes, exactly. Which Jamie Diamond coined it in an interview with me.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: Well, you're living there, you're living there, Elex.

(LAUGH) SCARAMUCCI: You love California. You know, you love California.

(LAUGH)

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAELSON: There's a lot of great things.

SCARAMUCCI: You know, the Terminator loves California. You know, I love California.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, you can't beat the weather. And the Terminator and Gavin Newsom were together today, talking about the great climate situation in California as well. Anthony Scaramucci, the new book is called "All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump."

It is so great to talk with you again. I hope we will get to talk to you again soon and come visit sometime when you're in California.

SCARAMUCCI: I expect to be out there to see you, and I really appreciate you inviting me on tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Coming up on "The Story Is," Pope Leo shares his first message after undergoing lung cancer surgery. A live report from Rome on the Pontiff's health is next.

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[02:45:42]

MICHAELSON: Days after U.S. Representative, Ilhan Omar's D.C. area home was searched in an immigration fraud probe, sources tell CNN that the search the Trump administration wanted was unusually aggressive and involved prolonged arguments with the judge. Multiple people familiar with the investigation say the judge went back and forth with prosecutors for several days, ultimately limiting how they could access the Minnesota Democrats' documents.

D.C. courts have traditionally upheld expansive protections around legislative work under the Constitution's Speech or Debate Clause. President Trump mentioned Omar during a rally on Wednesday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Everybody here, you're the people that built America. You're not the people that demand everything like Ilhan Omar, who says -- who comes in from a ninth-rate country. It's not even third rate, ninth rate. She comes over to this country and she said, I have constitutional rights.

I have a constitutional right to be in this country. And then they come over here and they tell us how we should run the United States of America. No, thank you. No, thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Omar has denied any wrongdoing and has not been charged with a crime. Monday's search was unusual because the DOJ generally avoids investigative activity that could affect an election within 60 days of Election Day. And folks in her district are already voting by mail.

Overseas now, Pope Leo thanking fellow Catholics for their prayers in his first message after undergoing surgery for lung cancer in Rome. The Vatican says the pontiff is recovering as expected and will remain in the hospital for a week. Pope Leo has canceled all his public appearances until October 20th as he undergoes treatment, although he is still expected to embark on a long trip to South America next month.

CNN's Stefano Pozzebon is live in Rome. And Stefano, we just got an update about the Pope and eating, right?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, exactly, Elex. Good evening, by the way. Here in Rome, it's early morning. And literally 15 minutes ago, we heard from the Vatican that Pope Leo had a peaceful night. He's awake and he already had breakfast.

We don't know what the American Pope in Rome would have, whether it's scrambled eggs and pancakes or cappuccino and brioche. However, yes, the Pope is continuing his recovery after that successful operation back on Tuesday. They saw a team of doctors remove the lower lobe of his right lung.

But I think like you said, exactly, let's point to the global impact of these sudden and clearly, not scheduled hospitalization. And nowhere more than in Lima in Peru was that felt with hundreds of thousands of Catholics left wondering whether this trip will actually go ahead.

So far, both the Vatican and the Peruvian presidency have told us that the preparation for Leo's visit to the place where he spent more than two decades as a missionary and then as a bishop are going ahead. And look what they've done for him in Lima in the last couple of days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (through translator): We consider the Pope as a family member. When he said he was coming back to Peru, it's like a relative coming back home and you get emotional. You want to have the house beautiful. We're happy.

Now we worry about his health. We all hope he really recovers and the most important is the Pope's health. We all wish him a speedy recovery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: Those were cleaning up the house, unveiling a hyper- realistic statue of Leo back in Lima, Peru. Everything is going ahead as planned. We look forward to seeing the Holy Father out of this hospital just behind my back next week. Elex?

MICHAELSON: What (ph) they made of him?

[02:50:00]

Was that a wax figure of the Pope?

POZZEBON: I understand it's not wax. I think it was carbon fiber. But listen, you know, I spent 10 years in South America. That is very common down there. They like that sort of art. And so, I found it very interesting when I was looking at the wires today, Elex, and I wanted to give it to you and your audience.

Let's see, perhaps in a month, we'll be reporting on Leo actually seeing himself in a statue.

MICHAELSON: That would be quite a moment for him, I'm sure. Stefano Pozzebon, live in Rome. Great to see you, my friend. It's been too long. Thank you so much.

POZZEBON: Cheers, Elex.

MICHAELSON: Still to come here on "The Story Is," we're talking about a story involving some traffic here. We want to put this up. Authorities in India are investigating possible connections to animal trafficking after five baby orangutans were found abandoned last month, thousands of kilometers from Indonesia.

CNN's Rhea Mogul has details on how the global wildlife trade is now affecting endangered species.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RHEA MOGUL, CNN SOUTH ASIA REPORTER: A few weeks ago, this image shocked India. Five baby orangutans were found in a forest in Odisha in eastern India. They were thousands of kilometers from home and they were all alone.

Authorities immediately suspected trafficking, which raised the question, who was behind it and how did these animals get here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you find, early morning, orangutans in Balasore in Odisha, there is no suspicion about trafficking. It is trafficking.

MOGUL: Our investigation showed that the story of these five baby orangutans is one of many in the incredibly lucrative and abusive wildlife trafficking trade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You give me the money, I give you the animals and that's it.

MOGUL (voice-over): The rainforests of Sumatra and Borneo are the only places on earth where orangutans still live in the wild. But these ancient forests are also often the starting point of a global wildlife trafficking industry, one that rips these animals from their habitat and takes them to markets like these, where they're sold as pets, or advertised online in public groups on platforms like Facebook.

CNN spoke to several wildlife sellers online who offered to ship the animals across Asia. One seller said they could deliver a monkey to Mumbai within seven hours. Meta told CNN it will investigate the groups we found to be selling wild animals against their own policy. After weeks of searching, we tracked down a former wildlife trafficker whom we'll call, Booty, who was willing to tell us about the inner workings of the industry.

MOGUL: What role did you play in the wildlife trafficking trade?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do have a role as seller. I just getting animal from Java and then the golden cat and the (inaudible) from the Sumatra.

MOGUL: What's the furthest country that you've sold an animal to online?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the United States.

MOGUL (voice-over): Booty says he ran a network of poachers across Indonesia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main factor that drives me is, yeah, it's easy money, right?

MOGUL (voice-over): He paints a picture of a well-oiled machine that he says funnels animals from the jungles of Indonesia to mansions in the Gulf and private zoos in Asia, lining the pockets of corrupt officials along the way.

LIONEL HACHEMIN, GLOBAL DIRECTOR OF WILDLIFE CRIME PROGRAM, INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR ANIMAL WELFARE: Wildlife crime is an organized crime, which means there is corruption at every stage, like any other crimes that is happening -- drug, weapons trafficking, human trafficking.

MOGUL (voice-over): Investigators have been documenting these trafficking routes for years, taking animals on a terrifying journey across several countries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) animals just die. Yeah, many happens in the transportation, which (inaudible).

MOGUL (voice-over): After years in the trafficking industry, Booty (ph) now works as an informant for a conservation NGO, helping track down the very people he once worked with.

MOGUL: Were you surprised when these five orangutans were found in the forest in India?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What make me surprised is why these smugglers just the baby orangutan there, right? So I think there is some -- some things maybe happened.

HACHEMIN: It's like if you had some traffickers just leaving 500 kg of cocaine in the middle of the forest in plain sight.

MOGUL (voice-over): A month into an investigation led by a special Indian task force, it's still unclear how these five animals ended up in India. Indonesia has requested the animals be returned to their rightful home. For now, the babies are at a zoo in India, learning the life skills their mothers should have taught them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:55:00]

MICHAELSON: Coming up on "The Story Is," some soaring prices and another spike in inflation sends just -- not just Wall Street, but also Asian markets into a tailspin. We'll have the details.

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[03:00:00]

ANNOUNCER (voice-over): Live from Los Angeles, "The Story Is with Elex Michelson."

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michelson. It's midnight here in Los Angeles, 3 a.m. in Washington and 8 a.m. in London. Welcome to a special extended hour of "The Story Is" on a day of special programming for CNN.

Coming up, The Story Is consumer crisis. President Trump keeps touting his economy despite growing inflation.

The Story Is a new fuel deal. Ukraine's president responded to President Trump's agreement with Russia.

And The Story Is the mother of all bombs. We have new exclusive reporting about the potential plan to drop powerful ordnance on Iran.

But first to Asia, where markets are plummeting over worries about the sustainability of the A.I. boom. It is in the afternoon on Thursday in Asia, and you can see that the numbers are not good.

Wall Street tanked on Wednesday after a report on higher than expected consumer price inflation, and that could pressure the Federal Reserve to once again raise interest rates. The Consumer Price Index found inflation rose faster than expected last month. Prices were up 0.6 percent from August and according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that brought the annual rate of inflation up to 3.7 percent, inflation has now outpaced wage growth for six straight months.

Meanwhile, average U.S. gas prices have now been stuck at $4 a gallon or higher for 167 days this year, which is the most of any year in history. The year is not over yet.

Gas costs just under $3 a gallon before the war with Iran. And diesel prices have yet to drop, despite President Trump's much-hyped deal with Russia. During a campaign stop in Arizona, he suggested that high fuel costs are actually a good thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Our country is making more money than it's ever made because of the fact that oil is so high. Now, they're going to say, isn't it terrible? He talked about the fact that he doesn't care about the little person, they call them.

I care more about the little person than I care about the big person. I care about the little person like crazy. But the fact is, because of the price of oil, Texas and Oklahoma, North Dakota and all these places, we're making a fortune.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: CNN's David Goldman has a closer look at the impact of President Trump's policies on the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, undeniably, actually, he is right. The economy looks great, actually.

Unemployment is at 4.2 percent. We call that full employment. Retail sales, 1.2 percent, people keep spending despite high prices. That is a very good sign.

And that is fueling a GDP forecast that's off the charts. 3.6 percent this quarter is a very large growth of the economy. So I think the question you're probably asking is, why do people hate it so much?

And they do. 27 percent of Americans approve of this economy, that means 73 percent do not like it, according to a recent CNN poll.

And there's some history with this. Remember, under President Biden, the economy didn't look all that great to some folks.

Consumer prices were up 21.5 percent under the four years of President Biden. Gas prices were up 31 percent and paychecks were down. You lost out to inflation under President Biden.

And the wealth gap grew significantly. If you were in the top 1 percent, well, your net worth went up 30 percent. But for the rest of us in the middle 40 percent, it only gained 10 percent.

The rich got richer, the poor not so much. So President Trump comes into office. And what does he say he's going to do?

He's going to lower costs, he's going to lower interest rates, he's going to cut spending, cut taxes, and jobs are going to boom. Did he do it?

Well, let's find out. Well, we know that costs are continuing to rise. Well, the fuel prices are going up.

That sounds like the Iran war to me. Interest rates are going up, a consequence of the Iran war. Labor costs are going up, that's A.I.

Imported goods, well, you know, tariffs are a big thing. And then chips and electricity, well, yes, that's an A.I. thing, too.

Let's take a look at Trump's record. Was it his fault?

Yes, partially, yes, maybe no here with A.I. But there's a lot of blame for Trump's policies making this even worse.

And what does it look like now? Well, we have wage gains of 3 percent. That sounds pretty good. Your paycheck is getting bigger.

But inflation, we just found out today, grew at a rate of 3.7 percent over the course of the year. That means inflation is eating your paycheck by quite a bit.

Now, Social Security recipients are getting some good news. 3.6 percent gain in Social Security payouts next year, but at 3.7 percent inflation, they may be losing out. We'll find out next year.

[03:05:04]

This chart shows how over the past three or so years, you were making more money than inflation until the Iran war happened. And then all of a sudden, you have consumer prices going up and you have your pay going down. That gap is not fun for anyone, it means inflation continues to eat that paycheck.

So did Trump deliver on his promises? Did he defeat inflation? Certainly not. Did he lower interest rates? Nope.

Did he reduce government spending? Remember DOGE? Whatever happened with that? Nope. Did he cut taxes? Yes, he did. But did we get the jobs boom? Kind of a mixed bag there.

So a mixed record, but there's a lot to blame for Trump's policies making things worse, not better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tells the "Financial Times" that his country plans to resume strikes on Russia's oil refineries. He also spoke out about what he called a dangerous withdrawal of U.S. intelligence sharing and access to the Starlink satellite Internet service.

Comments come amid growing tensions between Zelenskyy and President Trump. The U.S. President announced last week a controversial deal to buy Russian diesel. And he piled pressure on Ukraine to stop striking Russia's refineries.

Zelenskyy said earlier Wednesday that he felt betrayed after learning of the deal and that it was painful to see President Trump choose one side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Our country has to survive and we count on our real partners, strategic partners, United States. And President Trump, they wanted us not to attack diesel.

My opinion was it's not fair. Energy is fine. It's okay.

It's understandable. I mean, it's the worst version of peace. But anyway, it's some steps to the peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Zelenskyy is set to attend an E.U. summit in Brussels, which begins today. Ahead of that, he met with British Prime Minister Andy Burnham at Downing Street on Wednesday, where he was greeted with a strong pledge of support. Zelenskyy also sat down with Britain's Prince Charles, King Charles.

Back in Ukraine, Russia is intensifying its attacks, launching missiles and drones on Wednesday from it. A Ukrainian official says at least six people were killed when a drone hit a wholesale warehouse hours earlier. Russia targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure.

Oleksandr Merezhko is the chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Ukrainian parliament. He joins us live right now from Kyiv. Thanks for being with us.

There is new reporting that the Ukrainian president says that Ukraine to resume attacks on Russia's oil refineries. Are you hearing that? Can you confirm that?

OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Thank you for having me.

Of course, we just don't have any other choice but to continue to try to destroy Russia, destroy a Russian war machine, because oil refineries is an integral part of Russian war machine.

And the only way to bring peace closer to Ukraine, the only way to force Putin into negotiating in earnest is to continue to do what we do to continue to destroy Russian oil refineries. There is no any other way. We don't have much leverage.

MICHAELSON: That sounds like a strong confirmation. So what does that look like?

MEREZHKO: Well, Russia continues to destroy our energy system, our power grid, and Russia and Putin intends to continue to double down on that during the winter. He is going to weaponize winter and to create a humanitarian catastrophe in the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv, in other cities.

So we need somehow to counteract his aggression in this regard. And of course, we would like to continue to rely on our American friends in this respect.

MICHAELSON: How is President Trump's diesel deal with President Putin playing in Ukraine? What's your reaction to that?

MEREZHKO: First of all, economically speaking, it had absolutely no sense, because it's not going to have any impact upon prices, gas prices or diesel prices within the United States.

It's more political move, which proved to be very damaging for the reputation of President Trump, for his credibility and reputation of the whole country. It was a huge mistake, and I do hope that President Trump will find the ways to correct it.

Maybe it's related to very heated election campaign before the midterms in the United States. I don't know. But we don't want to be a hostage to internal politics in the United States.

MICHAELSON: Zelenskyy says that he feels like he's losing America's support. Let's listen to this.

[03:10:02]

(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)

Maybe we don't have that.

Do you agree with that concept? Do you think you're losing America's support? And if so, what's the leverage to get it back?

MEREZHKO: I would distinguish between support of President Trump and his entourage on the one hand, and America as a nation on the other hand, because we continue to enjoy bipartisan support in the Congress, and American Congress is on our side. The best proof of that is recently passed bill -- recently passed law named after Lindsey Graham.

Secondly, most importantly, American people, prevailing majority of Americans, understand what's going on. They're on the side, they support the victim of aggression, not the aggressor itself.

American public opinion, American press is also, majority of it at least, is on the side of Ukraine. So, and we're grateful to American people for continuing to support us.

MICHAELSON: Oleksandr Merezhko in Kyiv, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate your perspective.

Still ahead here on "The Story Is," two ships go down in the Strait of Hormuz, and the U.S. military weighs using an extremely powerful weapon against Iran. We're live in Abu Dhabi with new reporting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MICHAELSON: Now to some major new developments in the war with Iran. Two cargo ships have now sunk in the Strait of Hormuz within 24 hours following separate strikes.

A Singapore-flagged container ship was hit on Tuesday, and a merchant vessel also went down a few weeks after it was struck. Iran is stepping up attacks in an effort to regain control over that critical waterway.

Also, an exclusive report that the U.S. military is considering using what's known as the mother of all bombs against Iran. U.S. officials tell CNN that that bomb would target Iranian energy infrastructure and nuclear sites. The Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, or MOAB, is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal.

Let's get right to CNN's Leila Gharagazlou, who is following all this live from Abu Dhabi. Some big news there, Leila.

LEILA GHARAGOZLOU, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, this is quite big news in a war that for the last couple of months has really been in a stalemate and has been essentially a big game of chicken, right, between the U.S., Israel, and Iran, trying to figure out who is going to blink first, who's going to attack first. So this really is quite big news and gives us a little bit of insight into what the Trump administration is potentially thinking of doing in Iran.

But, you know, there's a number of things to take into account when we're looking at the potential usage of this. According to the experts that CNN spoke to about the use of this mother of all bombs, it really could be used as a potential psychological weapon, more so than a weapon that could really damage nuclear facilities. It is a very devastating weapon, it can take out nearly nine city blocks with its blast.

But it's not the kind of weapon that can really penetrate a deep nuclear site like the one that is suspected under, let's say, Pickaxe Mountain. So it really has limited use in this potential situation. The other thing that I think is really important to look at when we're talking about the usage of this is what the strategic goals are going to be with it.

It's unlikely that further bombardment is going to change the Iranian stance in this war. So far, nothing has really changed it. We saw the aerial bombardment early in the war, the sanctions, the blockade, and they really haven't changed course.

In fact, we've seen a more entrenched hardline regime really take action during this war. So a bomb like this has very limited strategic success, in my opinion, when it comes to what it can achieve with the actual government.

That being said, it could, as our colleagues reported, have really devastating consequences on any sort of populated area near the sites. If they hit energy infrastructure, a lot of those do tend to be quite close to cities. We've seen the U.S. do that with devastating consequences on the

civilians. So it's going to be interesting to see how they decide to move and whether this could change the Iranian government's decision- making on whether they strike the U.S. or Israel first, before or after the midterms. So a lot to watch here, but a very interesting development in this war that has been at a stalemate and stagnant for a couple of months here.

MICHAELSON: Yes, and again, that reporting, not that they've decided to use it, but that they're considering using it, and so you wonder, even them floating that possibility, is that sort of something they're trying to bring them back to the table by even mentioning that?

We will see in the days ahead. It does not seem like there's going to be any sort of deal before the midterms. Leila Gharagazlou, live for us from Abu Dhabi, thank you so much.

Up next on "The Story Is," horse-drawn carriages are a fixture on the streets around New York's Central Park, but that could soon be changing. Details on an upcoming vote from the city council.

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[03:20:00]

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MICHAELSON: New York City Council is expected to vote this month to ban horse-drawn carriages. Concerns about rider safety and animal welfare are driving the initiative. CNN's Brynn Gingras has the story.

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GRACIE THRASHER, FORT WORTH, TEXAS: I just like the idea of a carriage. It's like a princess. It's like princess treatment all around the big city.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):It's an iconic New York City moment, a horse-drawn carriage ride around Central Park.

AHMET BILICI, CARRIAGE HORSE DRIVER: Are we ready, ladies?

GINGRAS (voice-over): But now it's on track to be part of the Big Apple's past, with New York City set to ban the attraction for good.

BILICI: This is a very popular attraction. It's one of the best things in New York City.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Ahmet Bilici has been holding the reins for more than two decades. He, along with other drivers, are furious about the ban that would force their horses into retirement and take away the only jobs they know.

BILICI: I don't have a house, I don't have a car. I have only a horse carriage and horses over here. This is my life over here. GINGRAS (voice-over): The clash over carriages isn't new. They've

drawn the ire of animal rights activists for years, and the ban has been considered by the city at least a half a dozen times before.

The most recent attempt comes after an 18-year-old tourist died after being thrown from her runaway horse-drawn carriage last summer. It's believed to be the first known death associated with a carriage ride since the tours began.

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GINGRAS: Was that the catalyst for actually making this seem like it's going to move forward this time?

CHRISTOPHER MARTE, NEW YORK CITY COUNCILMAN: I think it put a spotlight on what has been happening. There's been a lot of close calls, there's been horse collapsing, there's been carriages that have been tipped over and drivers being taken out on a stretcher. But that was just a realizing moment of saying, enough is enough.

JULI MENIN, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: To have 42 million people a year visit this great park and our wonderful city, but in a very crowded area, these horse carriages were operating, and it just is not sustainable anymore.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The proposal, supported by Mayor Zohran Mamdani, set to be voted on next week, promises to help the concerned drivers find new work.

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY: I think that we have a civic responsibility to ensure that we are not leaving anybody out to dry.

GINGRAS: You don't trust.

CHRISTINA HANSEN, CARRIAGE HORSE DRIVER: Well, the city doesn't follow their own mandates all the time. This is how I've chosen to spend my life is with these magnificent horses. I love horses, I love history, you know, but then to say like, oh, plug and play.

We'll find you, we'll refer you to jobs somewhere. It'll be fine. You know, it's like, no, it's not fine.

GINGRAS (voice-over): If passed, the ban will take effect in June 2028.

THRASHER: I think I'd be really sad if it was something I wanted to do. And then we came and it was gone, you know, so I'm glad that I'm getting to do it.

GINGRAS (voice-over): So for now, tourists are still capturing that classic New York City moment.

Brynn Gingras, CNN, Central Park.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MICHAELSON: Thanks for watching "The Story Is," we're back in tomorrow in our regular time slot of midnight Eastern or 9 P.M. Pacific. See you then.

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