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The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper
The Rise Of Christian Nationalism. Aired 8-9 ET
Aired March 22, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE WHOLE STORY. I'm Anderson Cooper.
In February, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth invited Pastor Doug Wilson to a prayer service at the Pentagon. Wilson is a self-described Christian nationalist and co-founder of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches known as CREC. Secretary Hegseth is a member of a church that's part of that network.
Wilson believes society should be governed by a strict interpretation of biblical law. This includes women willingly submitting to their husbands, abolishing same-sex marriage, and educating children in classical Christian schools. His church is part of a small but growing movement of Christian churches from all denominations who believe this country should be a Christian nation.
CNN's Pamela Brown sat down with Doug Wilson, and in this next hour, she'll take you inside a community in Texas that follows his teachings. She also looks at why this movement is growing and what it could mean for the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF RIPPLE, PASTOR, CHRIST FELLOWSHIP CHURCH: Are you all ready? All right, let's pray.
Father, thank you for this day. Thank you for this opportunity to come in this place and cry out to heaven. Lord, would you hear our prayer as we humble ourselves before you, in Jesus's name, amen.
CROWD: Amen.
(SINGING)
CROWD: Why do the heathen nations vainly rage. What prideful schemes are they in vain devising. The kings of the earth and rulers all engaged in evil plots and in their sin contriving. They take their stand --
J. RIPPLE: It was in '85 that we moved here, not wanting to stay here, but God gave me a love for this community.
CROWD: Give ear to my words, o Lord. Consider my meditation. PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR (voice-
over): Pastor Jeff Ripple has built this close-knit, faith-centered community in Taylor, Texas.
J. RIPPLE: I've always been a pastor that's been involved in my community.
Joel 2:12 through 19.
BROWN (voice-over): He's been the lead pastor at his church since 2002. At the time, the church was nondenominational. Four years ago, it joined the CREC, the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches.
DOUGLAS WILSON, CO-FOUNDER, COMMUNION OF REFORMED EVANGELICAL CHURCH: With his blood, he purchased all the nations of men. And Father, this includes our nation.
BROWN (voice-over): The network of churches was co-founded by Pastor Douglas Wilson, a self-described Christian nationalist.
Since aligning with the CREC, Pastor Jeff's congregation has nearly doubled in size, according to the church, drawing in new families, like Andrew and Sierra McIlwain.
ANDREW MCILWAIN, MEMBER, CHRIST FELLOWSHIP CHURCH: Once we met the people, their authenticity, their commitment to Christ, I remember we were like, this is absolutely where God wants us.
SIERRA MCELWAIN, MEMBER, CHRIST FELLOWSHIP CHURCH: Come on, can you get the door for me?
BROWN (voice-over): Andrew and Sierra are raising three young children.
S. MCILWAIN: There you go. Thank you.
BROWN (voice-over): When their first son was born, Sierra was on active duty in the Army. Today, she serves in the Army Reserves.
A. MCILWAIN: All right. Watch your step.
BROWN (voice-over): For Sierra, the church has provided stability she has long craved.
S. MCILWAIN: In my mind, I didn't want to be a wife or a mom. And praise God, he had better plans for me. All of the self-dependence, self-reliance, all of the military stuff, none of them have even come close to how challenging and rewarding being a wife and a mother is, submitted under Christ.
BROWN (voice-over): Jonah and Kynleigh Kirby and their four children are also relatively new to the congregation.
JONAH KIRBY, MEMBER, CHRIST FELLOWSHIP CHURCH: This is the most welcoming group of people I've ever met in my life, a tightknit group of people who believe in the mission and live it out. BROWN (voice-over): Jonah describes it as a mission because for the
members of Christ's Fellowship Church, the saying, all of Christ for all of life, isn't just their motto, they say it's their guiding principle. And it starts with education.
[20:05:02]
J. RIPPLE: It was really five families in our church who decided that they wanted to come together and start a classical Christian school.
BROWN (voice-over): Kynleigh is a teacher at Taylor's local classical Christian school. Pastor Ripple's son Caleb and daughter-in-law EJ are the headmaster and headmistress.
EJ RIPPLE, CLASSICAL CHRISTIAN SCHOOL HEADMASTER: We want to equip students to go to higher places than we've gone to influence culture, like we want to make more Christians. We want to spread the gospel. So as they're infiltrating into culture, they're influencing the culture to Christ.
BROWN: And so basically, it's all part of a mission to make this a Christian nation?
E. RIPPLE: Yes.
CALEB RIPPLE, CLASSICAL CHRISTIAN SCHOOL HEADMISTRESS: Absolutely.
BROWN (voice-over): At classical Christian schools, religion isn't a standalone subject. It shapes every lesson, from science to history, through a strict and literal biblical worldview.
C. RIPPLE: We don't like hide from the theory of evolution, for example.
BROWN: Right. So you'll teach them about evolution or Darwinism?
E. RIPPLE: We'll teach it as a theory. Yes.
C. RIPPLE: Yes, we teach it as this is what some people believe, laughably.
BROWN (voice-over): Each morning at this school, they even pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, not the American flag.
DAVID GOODWIN, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF CLASSICAL CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS: We want to enculturate Christian kids. And when we say that, we mean deeply Christian kids, ones who think like biblical Christians all the way down.
BROWN (voice-over): And at the core of what they teach their children is a belief central to CREC.
So do you teach the kids here this is a Christian nation, this was founded as a Christian nation?
J. RIPPLE: Absolutely. Yes. BROWN (voice-over): For some the choice to place your kids in public
schools isn't just wrong, it can be a sin.
You think it is a sin?
GOODWIN: I think it is because in most areas, the education is coming from the state. And that was not what God intended from the beginning. They don't raise children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
BROWN (voice-over): While this doesn't represent the large majority of Christians, some, including members of the Taylor Church, agree public schools should go away altogether.
Do you think public schools should even exist?
E. RIPPLE: No.
BROWN (voice-over): And they also share some other controversial beliefs, like their views on pluralism.
What about people of different faiths? Where do they fit into a Christian nation?
E. RIPPLE: We cannot ultimately live together in harmony with conflicting worldviews.
BROWN (voice-over): Women's right to vote.
J. KIRBY: We think that ideally, it would be a household vote, which if the husband is there, and he's present, and he's dutiful, then that would be his say.
BROWN: So no 19th Amendment?
J. KIRBY: I think maybe amend the amendment.
BROWN (voice-over): And LGBTQ rights.
E. RIPPLE: What matters is what the word of God says.
J. RIPPLE: Same-sex marriage, that's an oxymoron. It's not marriage because the bible defines what marriage is. So --
BROWN: So you think it should be illegal then. You agree with that.
J. RIPPLE: Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
WILSON: No more homosexual marriages, no more Pride Parades.
BROWN (voice-over): And preaching these beliefs at the root of this movement is Pastor Douglas Wilson.
WILSON: Godly women want to feed their men. Godly women are designed to make the sandwiches.
BROWN (voice-over): I interviewed Pastor Wilson last year as his denomination opened its first location in Washington, D.C., an event attended by influential congregants, like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. The move brought Wilson's theology closer to the seat of power.
You just living as a practicing Christian isn't enough for you.
WILSON: It's not enough, no. I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation. I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.
BROWN: Help us better understand your view of civil government, the family, and church, and how the Christian faith is part of that.
WILSON: Those are all creations of God. Since he created those governments, he writes the bylaws.
BROWN: You believe the civil government should be guided and dictated by biblical law, right?
WILSON: Yes.
BROWN (voice-over): These ideas are held by a small but vocal group known as Christian nationalists. The label isn't universally embraced. Some say it's been tainted by extremists and racial politics.
J. RIPPLE: White nationalism and Christianity have been conflated.
BROWN (voice-over): Broadly, Christian nationalism is the idea that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation and that its law should reflect Christian values, a claim rooted in some white evangelical churches. But while many of the founders were Christian, the claim that they intended to establish an official Christian nation is widely rejected by historians.
Wilson's church is just one small part of a movement that draws from many branches of Christianity.
JULIE INGERSOLL, RELIGIOUS STUDIES PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH FLORIDA: If you just look at their beliefs, you would say, well, why do these groups even get together? But if you look at how they see the world, how they think things should be, they merge on some really crucial points that give us the movement that we're calling Christian nationalism. They want to establish a Christian nation. They want us to be a theocracy.
[20:10:05]
BROWN (voice-over): That push is happening at a surprising time. Despite recent signs of stability, Christianity has been on the decline in the U.S.. Even so, some experts say the influence of Christian nationalism is on the rise.
MATTHEW D. TAYLOR, VISITING SCHOLAR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY CENTER ON FAITH AND JUSTICE: That is the paradox of the moment that we're living in right now. In fact, I would even push it further and say, while Christian devotion has been declining for the last three decades, Christian supremacist influence in our government is at maybe the highest point it's ever been throughout American history.
BROWN (voice-over): That influence is gaining traction in Republican politics, and has found an unlikely but effective champion in President Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to bring back our religion. We have to bring back Christianity in this country.
BROWN (voice-over): And while still fringe, for most Americans, these views may be more popular than you think. The Public Religion Research Institute, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization, conducted a survey in 2025 and found that more than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism. But some experts say the ideal has evolved and taken on a more political edge.
TAYLOR: Today, it is synced up with other anti-Democratic impulses that are embodied within the Trump administration that are driving policy and moving our country further and further from the democratic ideals that our founders laid out.
BROWN: What you have laid out sounds like a version of Christian authoritarianism.
TAYLOR: That's the end goal.
BROWN (voice-over): But for some people inside Christian nationalist churches, that end goal translated into a far harsher reality.
KATIE, FORMER MEMBER, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AFFILIATED CHURCH: I started to deal with panic attacks. I struggled with depression.
BROWN (voice-over): Including the women who say leaving was the only way to survive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I own a bead store and we do crafts like this all the time for groups of women.
BROWN (voice-over): These women are making bracelets as a form of therapy, aimed to help process what they call religious trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I've done my church events and then we're putting out pieces, women are suddenly faced with a decision that does not involve somebody else, and it's scary.
BROWN (voice-over): They are working through deconstruction, a journey of unraveling from a religious belief system.
BRITTANY, FORMER MEMBER, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AFFILIATED CHURCH: There are some of us that are still very much Christian. There's some that are completely de-converted. There's -- like there's such a spectrum.
MARGARET BRONSON, CO-FOUNDER, DECONSTRUCTION DOULAS: Beautiful spectrum. BROWN (voice-over): Margaret started this group called Deconstruction
Doulas to provide community and support for women who left their churches after experiencing spiritual disillusionment, or worse, some of them say they were abused.
[20:15:06]
Every woman at this table once belonged to churches aligned with Christian nationalist beliefs, and each say they carry trauma shaped by the rigid, biblically interpreted roles they were forced into.
BRITTANY: So much was weighted upon every decision you made. It was just like, is this God's will? Is this not? And it was like, I had to teach myself that sometimes you can make decisions.
BROWN: You don't have to be like, is this God's will?
BRITTANY: Oh, my gosh. Yes. So many things had this moral high ground, and it was wrong, and it felt like a sin.
BROWN (voice-over): They were part of conservative Christian churches that pressured members to marry young and taught a biblically based ideal of submission, where husbands hold authority over their wives.
WILSON: Just as Christ church.
BROWN (voice-over): It's what Pastor Douglas Wilson preaches in his Worldwide Network of Churches.
WILSON: Within the confines of marriage, the husband is the head, the wife is submissive.
BROWN (voice-over): And while not all these women were previous members of the CREC, everyone we spoke to said Pastor Wilson's teachings influence their former churches. Wilson, for his part, decries abuse and says his teachings should never be used to excuse it. Some couples we spoke to said, in their experience submission creates a stronger marriage.
I think a lot of people wonder about how submission works because for some of our viewers, that might sound jarring.
J. KIRBY: Sure.
KYNLEIGH KIRBY, MEMBER, CHRIST FELLOWSHIP CHURCH: Sure.
BROWN: So help us understand what that looks like.
J. KIRBY: At the end of the day, the buck stops with me. I'm the head of this house. I'm going to be held responsible before God for what has gone on in my house, for what has gone on with the stewarding of our children, our resources, things like that.
K. KIRBY: It's a responsibility that is a great responsibility. And I don't covet that responsibility. And ultimately, me trusting in him and trusting in his leadership is trusting in God. BRITTANY: My husband is wonderful. He always has been. And so I think
for a long time it was like, what is people's issue with this because it works for us. And it's because he always took my opinion. He wouldn't make a decision without me.
BROWN: That's not the way it always is.
BRITTANY: No, no. And so until we saw an abusive marriage that we had to help, and then another one and then another one, until then, our eyes weren't open to how it could be.
KATIE: For me, with my husband, who was emotionally abusive, it destroyed my soul little by little. So I started to deal with panic attacks. I struggled with depression off and on.
BROWN (voice-over): Katie and her husband are in a good place today after seeking counseling outside the church, but that's not the case for many women in abusive relationships. She says many women remain inside churches, where they sit at the bottom of a rigid hierarchy.
What was the hierarchy in your households?
KATIE: God, Jesus, pastor, others.
BROWN: OK.
KATIE: Dad, wife.
GLORI, FORMER MEMBER, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AFFILIATED CHURCH: Older brothers. It's very much you obey and you ask questions later.
BROWN (voice-over): Glori grew up under that religious hierarchy and says it left her unprotected when abuse began inside her home.
GLORI: One of my older brothers sexually assaulted and molested me throughout the majority of my early childhood.
BROWN (voice-over): She says she was taught to obey even when what was happening felt wrong.
And because you were told, well, he's your older brother, he's in charge, you thought what he was doing was OK. He was in charge.
GLORI: He's in charge.
BROWN: And how long did the abuse last?
GLORI: I have memories early as six and seven of like inappropriate, like grooming behavior. And it progressed. The abuse got more and more violent and aggressive. And it kept on going until I was probably 10 or 11.
BROWN (voice-over): Her brother Justice was arrested and ultimately took a plea deal, something Glori says is rare for abusers within her church.
GLORI: I'm one of only so many. But my abuser is the only one who has had any kind of legal repercussions.
BROWN (voice-over): The women say that same hierarchy that led to Glori's abuse as a child followed them into adulthood, governing their bodies, their choices, and how many children they were expected to have.
DANI, FORMER MEMBER, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AFFILIATED CHURCH: Almost everybody, has eight to 12 kids or more. More was not uncommon either.
KATIE: I kept having babies. I was pregnant and/or nursing for 13 years.
BROWN: What role do you think women play in society?
WILSON: Women are the kind of people that people come out of.
BROWN: So you just think they're meant to have babies. That's it? They're just a vessel?
[20:20:02]
WILSON: No, it's not like horses, and pigs, and dogs can do that. They can reproduce. It doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically. But when a child is born and is brought up in a home, the wife and mother, who is the chief executive of the home, is entrusted with three, or four, or five eternal souls. And we think it is a massive downgrade for her to give all that up.
MERCY, FORMER MEMBER, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AFFILIATED CHURCH: They have a really good way of making it sound really nice. The owner of the home, she has these children. What a privilege. Because it is a privilege to be a mother. And it's a privilege to get to stay at home. And it's a privilege to homeschool. But it's not a privilege if you're forced to do it, and it's not a privilege if you don't get to make decisions about your children without your husband vetoing it.
BROWN (voice-over): She said that lack of agency extends beyond the wives to the children.
MERCY: The parents are the earthly representation of authority, like God's authority to a child. So rebellion against a parent, however small it may be, had eternal consequences because it was ultimately against God.
BROWN (voice-over): Within strict reformed churches, disobedience demands discipline, whether from a parent, a husband, or a teacher.
C. RIPPLE: The goal of biblical discipline is to get them back into fellowship with God with one another. And nine times out of 10, our teachers are able to get that done in the classroom.
BROWN (voice-over): But when they can't?
E. RIPPLE: We do have a paddle.
C. RIPPLE: Yes. A paddle. E. RIPPLE: We do have a spanking policy. We'll make a phone call to
the parents and say we have to resolve the issue. So whether it's you coming to pick them up, or you coming and administering your own discipline, or us administering a spanking. The root of the problem is the sinful heart.
C. RIPPLE: We do not ever leave that room after a spanking and the student is sulky, angry, mad. It is always a restoration of fellowship. And it's a beautiful picture. It really is.
BROWN (voice-over): But for the women who have left their churches, the discipline they experienced went way beyond the swats the teachers in Taylor described.
DANI: In my family, it was mostly spankings. Especially when I was small. But I would sit and count the lashes and give up after 100.
BROWN: Give up after 100.
DANI: Yes. My parents picked up that you could spank kids' feet, and that would be more painful and show up less. So that was another punishment that they utilized. There were worse things that happened. I've been kicked with steel toed boots, shoved to the floor and kicked. Yes. Sorry.
BROWN: That's OK. It's OK. Take your time. And the underpinning of all of this idea and the teaching that you have to break the child's will in order to submit fully to God.
DANI: Yes.
BROWN: Right?
KATIE: Because people are sinners.
BROWN: Yes.
KATIE: Because kids are sinners, too.
BROWN (voice-over): Despite different churches and denominations, the same themes kept resurfacing -- sin, obedience, and authority.
You each have your own churches and denominations, but there's a through line here.
MERCY: I think the through line is control.
KATIE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For abusive men, it definitely comes down to control and power.
BROWN (voice-over): This woman is a current member of a strict Christian nationalist church. We altered her voice because the consequences for speaking against church leadership in her denomination would be severe, ranging from social shunning to even excommunication.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a lot of abusive men who aren't necessarily Christians. Right? So it's just that when they are abusers in a Christian community, they can frame their control under those terms of submitting to authority.
BROWN (voice-over): She's quietly working with a nonprofit group made up entirely of members from ultra conservative Christian nationalist churches to aid women in abusive situations. They guide them through disclosing abuse to church leadership, filing restraining orders, and advocating on their behalf.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time I think I know about every abuse case in this denomination, there's another one that comes.
BROWN (voice-over): She says she's helped two dozen women in her time with the group.
Why do you think you can help more on the inside than the outside?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our denomination and church community, it's very insular.
[20:25:01]
There's a fear of the outside. So they're more likely to ask for help from someone within the denomination.
BROWN: And this whole idea of if there's domestic abuse, call the police which is what Doug Wilson has said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have any of us seen that happen? No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they don't know what abuse is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. That's the thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knowing when to call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh. Yes.
BROWN (voice-over): All the women we spoke with know they're describing a reality many conservative Christians may not recognize, but they're speaking out as a warning about what can happen when authority is taken to an abusive extreme and when there's little recourse to stop it.
MERCY: Not every husband is going to be a monster to his wife, but the truth is that there is a thought process with no checks and balances, and there's no repercussions. And there's nothing set up to protect his wife. And we have seen it over and over again when these things do happen. So we lived the natural conclusion of these thoughts.
BROWN (voice-over): Those thoughts didn't come out of nowhere.
PROTESTERS: Life, life, the only choice is life. BROWN (voice-over): They've been building for decades as the political
right and Christian evangelicals joined forces.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm proud to stand with you in the long march for the right to life. God bless you all.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:11]
BROWN (voice-over): For many Americans --
A lot of people in town feel like you're trying to take over the town.
WILSON: That's right.
BROWN (voice-over): It may seem like Pastor Douglas Wilson entered the public eye overnight.
Are they all expected to be domestic and be able to cook and clean in the home?
WILSON: Yes.
BROWN (voice-over): Through most of his career, his views were confined primarily to his church and following.
WILSON: We're not egalitarian in any areas.
BROWN (voice-over): But in the past year, Wilson has taken his message to a much wider audience, giving interviews to high profile outlets like "The New York Times."
WILSON: The only way out is for us to repent and turn to Christ.
BROWN (voice-over): And the "Wall Street Journal."
WILSON: In our polity, households have the vote. Not men, not women. My views on a number of things have become steadily more mainstream, and have done that without me moving at all.
BROWN (voice-over): Experts say Wilson's rise is not a sudden phenomenon, but the latest chapter in a long conservative response to social change. The story begins in the 1960s, a period of profound transformation in America.
BISHOP WILLIAM J. BARBER II, PROFESSOR OF THEOLOGY AND PRESIDENT OF REPAIRERS OF THE BREACH: Most of the groups, like the moral majority, the religious right, claim in the '60s as some kind of bad time. The '60s was a time when civil rights were embraced. Voting rights were expanded.
TAYLOR: There was this real move, a real cultural shift in the United States towards more inclusion.
BARBER: Latino people began to stand up. Women began to embrace more of their rights.
TAYLOR: We moved more and more into being a liberal democracy that preserved the rights of everyone. And now what we're experiencing, in many ways, is the backlash to that.
BROWN (voice-over): Right after the upheaval of the 1960s, Pastor Wilson began building the foundation for the CREC. At the same time, a network of conservative action groups emerged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Born again by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
BROWN (voice-over): Focusing on reasserting a traditional Christian America.
INGERSOLL: There were many people who were sympathetic to what we now call Christian nationalists. But then new Christian right kinds of organizations, like the Heritage Foundation.
PAUL WEYRIC, PRESIDENT, FREE CONGRESS FOUNDATION: The conservative movement --
INGERSOLL: The Free Congress Foundation, the Moral Majority.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to stop the funds for abortion.
BROWN (voice-over): Arguing that rapid social change threatened America's moral and religious foundations.
PROTESTERS: Life! Life! The only choice is life!
BROWN (voice-over): They laid the groundwork for future Republican administrations.
REAGAN: I believe that faith and religion play a critical role in the political life of our nation.
BROWN (voice-over): The merging of politics and religion surged under President Ronald Reagan, who courted evangelical voters with the help of conservative Christian Pastor Jerry Falwell, Sr.
JERRY FALWELL SR., AMERICAN PASTOR AND TELEVANGELIST: Let us pray.
BROWN (voice-over): And aligned mostly white Christianity with the Republican Party.
FALWELL: In Jesus's name, amen.
BROWN (voice-over): And since then, conservative Christians have been a reliable voting bloc for Republicans. Their goal, to push back against a culture that, for some, was changing too fast and to restore an America they believed had been lost.
INGERSOLL: Every time there's a sense of social upheaval, when society is in a point of change and things feel chaotic and ungrounded and unrooted, there are always folks who try to ground their lives in clear cut, simple, structured ways of being. BROWN (voice-over): Enter COVID. Pastor Wilson found a sympathetic and
captive audience when COVID exploded and Americans faced lockdowns across the country.
WILSON: During the height of COVID, it was like a refugee column. People moving here, chased here by blue state governors, chased here by COVID restrictions, chased here by pastors and elders who flaked on them, who closed their church down.
[20:35:11]
And a lot of Christians were discovering that they did not have the Christian leadership that they thought they had. They thought shepherds were supposed to protect the sheep. And when the pressure came, it didn't happen.
BROWN (voice-over): The pandemic became a catalyst, driving a wave of people toward churches and communities that promise certainty and freedom.
WILSON: A lot of the people in the middle, let's call them normies, people who are not -- they're not particularly theological, and they're not hard left either, the last five years has really unsettled them a great deal.
BROWN (voice-over): If Wilson is right, his hometown of Moscow, Idaho, may serve as a bellwether for where the rest of the country is headed.
WILSON: G.K. Chesterton once said in his book "Orthodoxy," if it's true --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo.
WILSON: If it's true --
BROWN: Why did he yell boo? It's because --
WILSON: Because of me.
BROWN: Because of you. You're also in a college town. And there's quite the dichotomy here.
WILSON: Correct. There's a real division. Yes.
BROWN: Do you think that's reflective of the division in America right now?
WILSON: Yes, I think it's about 10 or 15 years ahead of the division in America. I think this has been boiling longer than what came to a head in the rest of the country. But I think it's the same basic thing.
BROWN: And what is that division look like?
WILSON: Well, it looks like a bunch of normies in the middle, committed Christians on one end, and then committed -- I call them intoleristas on the other, who want you to choke and die.
BROWN (voice-over): Many CREC churches never close their doors to worshippers during COVID, and that led to a community that is thriving and spreading to this day. From a start-up church in Idaho to the inner circle of the U.S. government.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:49]
BROWN (voice-over): September 21st, 2025.
TRUMP: America is a nation in grief, a nation in shock, and a nation in mourning. Charles James Kirk was heinously murdered.
ERIKA KIRK, WIFE OF CHARLIE KIRK: That young man, I forgive him.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
BROWN (voice-over): Charlie Kirk, a conservative activist and prominent Christian nationalist, was assassinated. It became a rallying call for those who believed in his message.
TRUMP: Our greatest evangelist for American liberty became immortal.
BROWN (voice-over): And it was a call to action.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: My charge to all of you, put Christ at the center of your life as he advocated for giving his.
TAYLOR: Memorial service was one of the most potent examples of this shift in our culture that we're experiencing right now, where a large segment of American Christians are being activated by these ideas, radicalized by these ideas that say that they are the persecuted ones and that they need to stand up for Christians rights.
A. MCILWAIN: The way we had all these political leaders proclaiming the name of Christ at his funeral, it was amazing.
BROWN: Do you think it marked a turning point for your mission and for America?
A. MCILWAIN: For America? With the rise of interest in Christianity, I think there's a sense that this way of life, the way America has been heading, that's not the answer. Well, where is the answer? Well, we find that answer in scripture in Christ.
BROWN (voice-over): Kirk's death happened at a moment of unprecedented alignment between Christian nationalists and the Trump administration.
TAYLOR: Part of the shift that we've experienced in the second Trump administration is a dropping of all pretenses to say, no, we're here. We're protecting Christians.
TRUMP: We will protect Christians in our schools, in our military, in our government. BROWN (voice-over): Trump has never explicitly said he believes the
country should be a Christian nation, but he is aligned with Christian nationalists and wants their support. And after an assassination attempt during his campaign, Trump said he believes God saved his life so he can lead the country.
TRUMP: My life was saved for a reason. I was saved by God to make America great again.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TAYLOR: Many Christians, who had, especially evangelical Christians, who had previously said, I don't believe in these prophecies, came around because of the assassination attempts and believed that his survival was the hand of divine providence, a sign of God's favor. He's an anointed figure that God has put in this place.
[20:45:03]
PAULA WHITE-CAIN, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE WHITE HOUSE FAITH OFFICE: Now, I dare you to lift your hands because God is opening doors.
BROWN (voice-over): That belief aligns closely with the teachings of Paula White-Cain, a prominent televangelist.
WHITE-CAIN: To say no to President Trump would be saying no to God.
BROWN (voice-over): White-Cain served as a spiritual adviser to Trump during his first term, and is now leading his White House Faith Office.
WHITE-CAIN: He is our greatest champion of any president that the United States of America has ever had.
BROWN (voice-over): The White House declined an interview with us, but told us the White House Faith Office was not created to tell Americans what religion to practice. Trump has also created a task force to eradicate anti-Christian bias.
TRUMP: The task force will work to fully prosecute anti-Christian violence and vandalism in our society.
TAYLOR: 62 percent, 63 percent of the country is Christian. There is no widespread Christian bias being enacted through the U.S. government. We're moving towards a time when we're not going to be a white majority nation, and we're not going to be a Christian majority nation if current demographic trends continue. And so there's this deep anxiety that says we need to protect what we have, and that Trump is an avatar of that protection.
TRUMP: That's a big one.
BROWN (voice-over): And Trump has placed some who have pushed Christian nationalist goals into powerful positions.
HEGSETH: Dear Heavenly Father, thank you. INGERSOLL: Pete Hegseth, he's probably the clearest example of that.
HEGSETH: First of all, thank you for being here.
WILSON: Thank you.
HEGSETH: Thank you for your leadership, for your mentorship, for the things you've started, the truth you've told, your willingness to be bold. Thank you very much.
BROWN (voice-over): Pete Hegseth, Trump's secretary of defense, is a member of a CREC church. In February, Hegseth invited Pastor Wilson to speak at the newly established Pentagon Prayer Service. Hegseth has used his role to push Christian nationalist goals, like removing transgender people from the military and women from combat.
I wonder what you think about Pete Hegseth and the job he's doing.
S. MCILWAIN: I think he's guiding America's military in the direction that is more in line with God's order. I don't think women should be in combat roles. Women are not made for combat.
BROWN (voice-over): Hegseth has long framed global conflict as a religious struggle. In his book "American Crusade," he warns of a battle for civilization between the West and Islam. After the U.S. launched strikes on Iran, he also repeatedly invoked Christianity, including this prayer at the end of a Pentagon briefing on the war.
HEGSETH: Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.
BROWN (voice-over): And then there's Russell Vought, Trump's director of the Office of Management and Budget.
RUSSELL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: I do believe in a -- that America has been, should be, and I hope it to be someday a Christian nation that affords religious liberty to everyone.
BROWN (voice-over): He said last year that he does not identify as a Christian nationalist, but he was a key author of Project 2025, which many religious experts point to as a Christian nationalist blueprint for Trump to remake the federal government.
INGERSOLL: And the administration is following it to a T. The destruction of the Department of Education and the way in which they are doing it is a perfect example.
BROWN: Are you happy with what's happening at the Department of Education being dismantled?
GOODWIN: Yes. I mean, moderately happy because I think it was not that consequential of a department to begin with. But it's good.
BROWN: But this is -- for all intents and purposes, this is what you want to see?
GOODWIN: Yes.
BROWN: The dismantling of the Department of Education, and ultimately getting rid of public schools?
GOODWIN: Yes.
BROWN (voice-over): As federal authority pulls back, a different vision is pushing forward. The Association of Classical Christian Schools has partnered with Charlie Kirk's Turning Point Education to expand what Turning Point calls God-centered schools, an alternative to the public system. For many in this movement, education is the front line. Shape the classrooms and you shape the country. And many see Donald Trump as the vehicle to make it happen in this moment.
BROWN: No matter what he does, they'll stick by him, it seems.
TAYLOR: I think there is a segment of American Christians for whom Donald Trump could start World War III, Donald Trump could destroy our economy, and they would rationalize that and continue to support him unquestioningly because they would say that that is the will of God.
BROWN (voice-over): And for both supporters and detractors of Christian nationalism, everything is at stake.
Is this an existential moment for this country?
A. MCILWAIN: There's no neutral position.
BRONSON: We gave up everything to get out. And it feels like the walls have closed back in again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:12]
BROWN: What was your preconceived notion of what it would be like to get out?
MERCY: So lonely, so scary.
BRONSON: I thought no one would ever understand me. No one would ever want me.
MERCY: You gaslight yourself.
BROWN: What did you find as you explored this new life?
BRONSON: Well, obviously, we found safety with each other, but outside of each other.
MERCY: I found Jesus. I found a good God who loved me and wanted good things for me. I found a true Christian faith that I didn't have before. That is freedom.
BROWN (voice-over): While the women within Deconstruction Doulas have found their way out of the high controlled Christian nationalist churches that once dominated their lives, they say many more women remain inside.
BRONSON: We have friends right now who are fighting for custody of their children with no --
[20:55:05]
BRITTANY: And we have people who won't leave because they're scared.
BROWN (voice-over): And for many, the idea of leaving is daunting by design.
BRITTANY: I know women who didn't get past an eighth grade education homeschooling. We know women who do not have driver's license. We know women who have never had a job. We have women who didn't have Social Security cards. I cannot emphasize the fact that some of them have access to a computer or phone like is incredible because -- yes.
BRONSON: The most vulnerable women we can't get to.
BROWN (voice-over): But they do have a message for anyone watching who might recognize pieces of their own life in their stories.
MERCY: I think women know things. We have intuition. And if anything that we have said has lit that little flame like, just explore it. Just explore it. Because the worst thing that can happen is we're just wrong. But maybe if you explore it, and you lean into it, you might be able to step outside of it enough to get out.
HEGSETH: All honor and all glory belongs to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
BROWN: What is that like to see people in leadership roles right now in the government that are from your former communities?
BRONSON: We gave up everything.
DANI: Yes.
BRONSON: To get out. And it feels like the walls have closed back in again, and we have been doing very poorly.
BROWN: Tell me more about that.
KATIE: I clawed my way out of this, you know, so many of us have. We did all the work to get out. And now, we're saying, OK, we recognize this, and it's scary.
BROWN: What are some of the things that you hear that say that was once in my community? That scares me?
BRONSON: For me, it's the Heritage Foundation stuff. It's the Project 2025. The people who have written that document, we represent the communities that they live in and that they are formed by. And I don't trust them to tell people what they ought to do.
BROWN (voice-over): But those communities and their ideas are spreading.
Would you like to see people in power adopt your Christian worldview? I mean, you have one already in Pete Hegseth.
WILSON: Absolutely. I like it when people in power admit that there's an authority above them. If there is no God above the state, then the state is God.
BROWN (voice-over): Christian nationalists are capitalizing on momentum and uniting across denominations.
J. KIRBY: In these times, we need to have a united front. I can stand next to a Baptist brother and fight against abortion. I can stand against a Methodist and say, hey, no Sharia law here. And so we need to be able to do that right now because we are under siege.
BROWN: You feel like you're under siege.
J. KIRBY: I think the West is under siege.
BROWN: Is this an existential moment for this country? Are we doomed without Christianity?
A. MCILWAIN: Well, I mean, if we keep heading in the direction we're headed, for sure. There's no neutral position. You're either headed in this direction of secularism or you're going towards the cross, going towards Christ.
TAYLOR: Part of the lie of Christian nationalism is that it speaks for all Christians, when in reality it speaks to a narrow segment of Christians who want to remake the nation to fit their vision of Christianity.
BROWN (voice-over): Some experts worry it may be too late to prevent severe democratic backsliding as Christian nationalism rises under a president with authoritarian impulses.
TAYLOR: We're in a moment of very acute democratic crisis in the United States right now. There are some people who question whether we can really call the U.S. a liberal democracy founded on the values of equality for everyone, with liberty for all, and protection for minority rights. These things have been eroded in a very rapid way in the first year of the Trump administration.
INGERSOLL: I see a possible future where the Christian nationalists win. This is a serious turning point. They're gaining power in government, and government is consolidating power. I think that Christian nationalism is going to reshape democracy in the near future.
BROWN: How far off do you see a Christian nation like a full-on Christian theocracy?
WILSON: 250 years.
BROWN: 250 years? WILSON: Yes. Honestly, that's -- yes.
BROWN: That's what you see. But you do think it will happen?
WILSON: Yes, I do. I think that we're in just the very beginning stages.
BROWN: Of making this a Christian nation.
WILSON: We've just begun to articulate what it could possibly look like. We're not going to usher in anything ourselves. We're really, genuinely pioneers.
