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What We Know with Max Foster
Russia And Ukraine Hold Direct Peace Talks In Istanbul; Trump Leaves The Middle East With Billions In Deals; Gaza Health Ministry: 250 Killed In Last 36 Hours; Pope Leo Offers Vatican For Russia-Ukraine Mediation Talks; Far-Right Candidate And Trump Admirer In Romania Favored To Win Runoff; Newark Controller Details Job Trauma In WSJ Interview. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 16, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:24]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Peace remains elusive between Russia and Ukraine after the country's first direct talks in three years.
I'm Isa Soares, in for Max Foster. And this is WHAT WE KNOW.
Turkey's foreign minister sees this moment as a, quote, important day for world peace. Russia and Ukraine have now agreed to a large-scale prisoner
swap with more talks on the horizon.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy weighed in earlier on Vladimir Putin's absence. And this is what he said. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: That was ready for a direct meeting with Putin, whether in Ankara or in Istanbul, and not just for a
meeting, but to resolve all the important -- all the important issues to my mind. But he didn't agree to anything. I mean, Putin and you can also see
that the Russian delegation that came to Istanbul is of a very low level. None of them are people who actually make decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: We are also tracking a significant phone call, and this picture really tells the story between Mr. Zelenskyy, other European leaders and
Donald Trump. This after the U.S. president claimed there will be no movement until he meets with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin.
Now, Clare Sebastian is tracking the story for us from Istanbul.
And, Clare, it has been pretty much a whiplash week of diplomacy, and it does seem that Ukraine is pretty much where it started. Talk us through
what exactly came out of this for -- for both sides.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Isa, look, I think this was one of those events where the expectations were pretty low to begin with, and
it was pretty clear, I think from the moment that we got the names of the Russian delegation late on Wednesday night, that this was being conducted
on Russia's terms and not Ukraine's.
This all arose, of course, because President Putin called for this meeting, proposed this meeting as a continuation, he said of peace talks that broke
down in the spring of 2022. He did that as a sort of third way. Instead of engaging with an ultimatum from Ukraine and its allies to sign on to a 30-
day unconditional ceasefire or face sanctions. He announced these talks and the announcement of that low level delegation merely confirmed that.
So, what we got today in terms of deliverables, not a huge amount, really. There was one concrete deliverable, which was this promise of a very large
prisoner swap, a thousand prisoners on each side. Now, prisoner swaps are relatively common in this war. This is the only functioning channel of
diplomatic activity. Up until, of course, we saw these first talks today, but still significant.
And certainly, the Ukrainian side is painting this as a win. And they sort of kicked the can on two key discussion points. One, that they would
discuss. The next step being a meeting of the two leaders, Putin and Zelenskyy, and two, of course, that they would both sort of set out their
visions in the in the words of the Russian side for a ceasefire.
Now, I think that is really where the reality sets in here, because of course, the Ukrainian side wanted a ceasefire before even coming to the
table here. And Russia has managed to sidestep this for the last week. And, of course, it's not going to be unconditional if Russia gets its way. We
heard from a Turkish official that Russia laid out terms and said that if Ukraine wanted the guns to fall silent, it had to withdraw from the parts
of those four regions that Russia claims to have illegally annexed, that Russia doesn't even occupy yet a redline for Kyiv. We also know that's a
redline for the U.S., so this is Russia really calling the shots here. And again, we end the day with no ceasefire.
SOARES: Yeah, calling the shots. And really clear its maximalist position hasn't shifted at all. And we've heard just in the last few days from two
U.S. officials telling CNN that Russia is amassing forces on the front line. So, you know, when we hear European officials talk about the -- that
Russia is just trying to delay, talk us through what the strategy is from - - on the ground level here.
SEBASTIAN: Well, look, this this is where it gets interesting, right. Because I think what you really saw today was that while the U.S. wasn't in
the room in these talks, the task of mediation fell to Turkey. They were a very present feature of these talks. U.S. officials met with both sides in
the sort of couple of hours before they went into the room for the main event today, but it's interesting to see the different ways in which the
two sides are balancing this.
On the one hand, you saw President Zelenskyy move very quickly after these talks to speak to President Trump, joined by his European allies,
Ukrainian. The Ukrainian delegation came out in a hastily arranged briefing and refused to paint this as a failure, saying, look, this was potentially
a tentative success in the words of one the -- one of the delegation who came out, but it needs to be consolidated.
[15:05:06]
Russia, meanwhile, isn't making nearly as much effort to sort of appease the U.S. side, to keep the reset that we know that it prizes on track. They
are simply sticking, as you say, to those maximalist goals, and are showing that these threats of pressure from both the U.S. and from Europe, even
though we've yet to see the U.S. follow through on this, are not going to change their position here. And so far, they seem to be able to keep doing
this -- Isa.
SOARES: Yeah, and it's -- and we'll be interesting to see what then happens with the United States and how Europe moves to in the coming days, as its
vowed to add more pressure. Of course, potentially sanctions on Russia.
Clare Sebastian for us there in Istanbul this evening -- thanks, Clare.
And a short time ago, I spoke to Lithuania's former foreign minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, who told me what Europe could do in terms of
stepping up the pressure on Russia as well as Vladimir Putin. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIELIUS LANDSBERGIS, FORMER LITHUANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It has been, you know, since February, how many months that we are talking about the
pressure. We created a group of the willing, but we have not created a group of the doing. So, that has been the biggest European problem that,
you know, we don't believe in our own ability to put pressure on Russia. And there are ways, there are clearly ways -- I mean, sanctions, we could
find a way how to impose real sanctions on Russia so that it would really start to hurt.
But then we need to deal with Hungarian problem within the European union, which again, seems like a far out target for certain member states and, you
know, supporting Ukraine, like really sending serious packages, if not the -- if not the weapons and at least money, so that they could build their
own drones and continue messing up their industry. So, these things have not yet happened. And I'm worrying that just willing for some sort of
result might not be enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Gabriellas Landsbergis there advising there on what Europe should be doing next when it comes to Putin and Russia.
Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is touting new business deals and stronger alliances in the Middle East. The president has wrapped up a visit that saw
him stop, as we showed you here all week, in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, as well as the UAE. Among some of the highlights is $600 billion investment by
Saudi Arabia in the United States, including an expansive defense partnership. Qatar committed to buying $96 billion worth of Boeing planes
in the U.S., and the UAE reached $200 billion worth of deals.
Kristen Holmes joins us now.
And, Kristen, as we just highlighted there, it's been a busy week of pomp, opulence. And as those zero showed, plenty of deal making. How does this
administration assess this week and what it's achieved?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They're feeling very good about it. Remember one of the things that we reported going into this
was that Donald Trump wanted one, the pomp and circumstance. He wanted the big welcome that he knew he would get in the Middle East. But two, he
wanted to come out of this by saying that he had gotten millions of investments from these Middle Eastern countries in America. And as you just
laid out, we saw that he did announce the $600 billion from Saudi.
We also heard this $96 billion Boeing deal that Qatar was going to be purchasing, not to mention that data center that they're building. The U.S.
is building in a partnership in the UAE. That is exactly what Donald Trump had hoped to get out of this first trip. It was going to look a lot
different than had he visited some of our allies in Europe, for example, he wanted the opulence and he wanted an opportunity to kind of curry favor
with some of these Middle Eastern leaders who he knew were eager to curry favor with him, who were eager to make deals with the United States, who
were happy that the president had chosen the Middle East and these specific countries as his first foreign trip.
So, they look back on this and they are feeling very good. Now, one thing I will say today, they're not feeling quite as good as this bill, the big
beautiful bill, as they are calling it, got held up because this is the next thing that the Trump administration is really going to be focused on.
But when it comes to this trip in itself, they feel like they had every win that they wanted to have.
SOARES: Kristen Holmes there for us with the very latest -- thanks, Kristen.
I want to stay in the Middle East. Gaza's health ministry says 250 people have been killed in an Israeli attacks over the past 36 hours. Israel
unleashed -- unleashed, I should say heavy airstrikes and artillery on northern Gaza overnight. And it says it hit terror targets. Many women and
children are among the dead.
Officials in Gaza say a mass displacement is underway as civilians flee the north towards western Gaza to try to escape those attacks. Israel is
rejecting calls for a ceasefire, threatening instead to expand the war and hold on to land that it captures.
Our Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv, monitoring all the strands.
And, Jeremy, we will discuss in just a moment the humanitarian situation on the ground that you have been reporting on for us here all this week. But
first, bring us up to date with intensification of the strikes that we've been seeing all week here.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, a very clear intensification of Israeli air and artillery strikes over the course of
this week, reflected in the fact that hundreds of people in Gaza have been killed just in the last several days.
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In fact, over the last 24 hours, more than 100 Palestinians have been killed, according to the Palestinian ministry of health, which we should
note does not distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths. But it is clear that there are civilians among the dead, including in a strike on the
Jabalya refugee camp in the northern in the northern part of the Gaza strip, where one man, Rafiq al Tatari (ph), said that his sister and 14 of
members of her family were killed in a single strike. Among the dead included her baby grandchildren, the baby grandchildren of that sister.
And so, we are seeing once again as the bodies are brought to the morgues inside of these hospitals in Gaza, these small bodies that are being
brought in white sheets to be buried. And unfortunately, it seems that things are going to continue to intensify and worsen for the people of
Gaza, as the Israeli military is preparing to expand its ground operation. The prime minister has said that Israel plans to move forward with this
operation to seize and occupy large swaths of the Gaza Strip with military operations that will be devastating for the population of Gaza, without a
doubt.
SOARES: And has even reporters, as we brought the viewers, your report yesterday, the situation, humanitarian situation on the ground is
incredibly dire. Many facing malnourishment, not enough food clearly to go around yet. We are getting more details on this Gaza humanitarian
foundation, which many NGOs, including the un, are pouring cold water on. Youve been able to speak to them, give us a sense of what they're telling
you about how this is going to work, Jeremy.
DIAMOND: That's right. I spoke with Jake Wood, the executive director of this Gaza humanitarian foundation, who says that he expects to get up and
running on the ground in Gaza by the end of this month. And in the meantime, he has asked the Israeli government to allow aid into Gaza via
existing humanitarian channels. He said that the Israeli government has indeed agreed to that, although he said that he could not provide a
timeline on exactly when that's going to happen. He expects an announcement on that front in the coming days.
I also asked him about the criticism that he has been facing from these un humanitarian aid organizations, including from Tom Fletcher, the U.N.'s
emergency relief coordinator, who called this new mechanism a, quote, cynical sideshow and a fig leaf for further violence and displacement. This
is Jake Wood's response to those criticisms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE WOOD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION: I want to stress this plan is not perfect, but this plan will be feeding people by
the end of the month. In a scenario where no one has allowed aid to be in over the course of the last ten weeks, ultimately, the community is going
to face a choice. This is going to be the mechanism by which aid can be distributed in Gaza. Are you willing to participate? The answer is going to
be, you know, pretty critical to whether or not this ramps up to sufficiently feed 2.2 million people in a very desperate situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: And you can see why he is making that appeal and why it is so critical. Because when I asked him whether or not he believes that his, you
know, new Gaza humanitarian foundation can provide enough aid for the entire population of Gaza without the aid stocks, without the
infrastructure and the trucks that these various un agencies provide, he said. It's hard to say.
And so, it is very clear that a lot of the ability of this new mechanism to be successful will depend on whether or not these aid organizations choose
to join. But of course, we have heard from so many of them who believe that this new mechanism, which was approved by Israel and is the only mechanism
that Israel is allowing for aid to get into Gaza, there are concerns that it will facilitate the displacement of Palestinians. Of the four first
distribution sites that this new Gaza humanitarian foundation will establish, three of them, I'm told, will be in southern Gaza, one in
central Gaza. But we know that so much of Gaza's population is in central and northern Gaza.
Now, Wood told me that he wouldn't participate in any kind of mechanism that's going to facilitate the displacement of Palestinians. He also said
that Israel has agreed to allow him to ramp up to create two distribution sites in northern Gaza. But again, there are so many hypotheticals here.
And until these aid organizations feel comfortable enough to participate, it's really, really unclear what the fate of food and hunger and assistance
to the population of Gaza will be in the coming days and weeks -- Isa.
SOARES: I know you'll stay across it for us. Jeremy Diamond for us in Tel Aviv this hour, thank you.
Well, Israel says it bombed and severely damaged two ports in Yemen today, calling them Houthi terror havens.
[15:15:04]
It's also vowing to kill the leader of the Houthis. Israel says it's not willing to sit on the sidelines and let the Houthis harm us. The strikes
come after repeated missile launches against Israel. Houthis says the response to the war in Gaza.
And coming up right here on the show, U.S. President Trump says the clock is ticking. His warning to Iran and Tehran's response. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, a Russian official says the Vatican's offer on Ukraine talks may be considered. The body of the Roman Catholic Church made an offer to
host mediation talks between the Kremlin and Kyiv. On Wednesday, Pope Leo said the Holy See is always ready to help bring enemies together.
Our Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb is in Rome with the very latest for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: You may remember, of course, that the funeral of Pope Francis, that extraordinary image of President
Trump and President Zelenskyy in St. Peter's Basilica, having talks. And apparently, those were quite productive, according to President Zelenskyy.
Look, the Vatican has for a long time sought to play a kind of mediatory role or to offer the space for some kind of peace talks between Russia and
Ukraine. That's something that Cardinal Parolin has emphasized today. He said that the Vatican is there to help.
Pope Leo XIV on Wednesday, speaking to leaders of eastern churches, saying that the Holy See is ready to bring enemies face to face to mediate. He, of
course, has emphasized peace from the word go in his pontificate, saying he wants to be a bridge builder and he's already spoken to President
Zelenskyy, who has himself been warm in regards to Pope Leo's overtures to try and help with this conflict.
[15:20:00]
Now, of course, the problem for the Vatican has been the difficulty in engaging Russia and opening a dialogue with them, and particularly the
Russian orthodox church, that's become very difficult for the Vatican.
So, the Vatican, hoping to help. But the key thing is, of course, bringing Russia to the table. And that's something the Vatican has struggled to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Our thanks to Christopher Lamb there in Rome.
Well, the man who attacked author Salman Rushdie in 2022 has been sentenced to 25 years in prison, the maximum time allowable under the law. Hadi Matar
was convicted of attempted murder as well as assault in February for the brutal stabbing attack that left Rushdie blind in one eye. Rushdie's book,
"The Satanic Verses", published nearly 40 years ago, sparked a sparked angry protests in the Muslim world over its controversial depiction of the
Prophet Muhammad.
Now, it doesn't appear President Donald Trump and Iran are on the same page right now. Mr. Trump says Iran has a nuclear proposal deal being offered by
the United States, but warns they don't have much time to make a decision on it. Just have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Has the U.S. given them a formal proposal as Steve Witkoff handed that over?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have a proposal, but more importantly, they know they have to move quickly or something bad --
something bad's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: But Iran's foreign minister says his government has not received any written proposal from the United States, something a source familiar
with the matter also told CNN just a short time ago.
And what we don't know, has anyone seen a U.S.-Iran nuclear deal proposal?
Joining me now is Vali Nasr, professor at the school of advanced international studies at Johns Hopkins University.
Vali, great to have you on the show. There seems to be some confusion about this proposal. As our correspondent was telling me in the last hour. It
seems that this was over the fourth round, so it's more a technicality here. Do we know, though, at this stage, what -- where both sides stand?
Just talk us through it.
VALI NASR, PROFESSOR, SCHOOL OF ADVANCED INTERNATIONAL STUDIES, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Well, first of all, it took the United States up to the
third round of talks to actually have a team that could deal with the technical side of the discussion. So, largely, it's been the United States
that has been slow out of the gate. And whereas the Iranians from the very beginning had proposals ready to discuss with the United States. Secondly,
President Trump has been saying a lot about the Iran deal during his trip to the to the gulf. But this is largely directed at the domestic
constituency. There's a lot of, you know, grandstanding.
But in reality, the two sides have a much clearer sense of where they are in the process right now. They have met four times. I think they are moving
along in terms of resolving technical issues. And I think there is a certain understanding about what the framework of a deal would look like.
SOARES: Let's talk about then those issues. I mean, what would the Trump administration be asking of Iran? And just give us an idea how far Iran is
prepared to go here? Would Iran be able to enrich uranium under a deal or only lower levels of uranium in exchange for the lifting of all sanctions?
Just talk us through what -- what we're hearing potentially from both sides.
NASR: I mean, the broad framework is fairly, familiar with everybody since the last deal, which is that Iran would not enrich more than 3.75 percent,
uranium. It will not stockpile beyond a certain amount, will not stockpile any uranium, that is -- has been enriched beyond 3.75, would be open to
international inspection, will not use advanced centrifuges. This is all there.
But the -- but where the discussion is, is the pace at which these things would be implemented. Who will do what how much sanctions would the U.S.
lift? How does Iran know that the U.S. will actually lift sanctions? How does it know that it won't back out of the deal? How would the United
States know that Iran is abiding by its commitments?
And also, a lot of the sunset clauses that were negotiated in the previous nuclear deal could look quite different. And then there are also some
additional proposals that have been put on the table and have been discussed, such as whether it's possible to think of a consortium of gulf
countries, including Iran, that would enrich and use the enriched uranium in different electrical facilities, energy facilities.
So, you know, the broad framework is there, but there's a lot of I's that need to be dotted and a lot of T's that need to be crossed before they get
to a signature.
SOARES: Yeah, there's a lot, honestly, as you've just laid out for us, that really we do not know. Look, President Trump said while in Saudi Arabia
that he presented an olive branch to the Iranians but stressed, and I'm quoting him here, this is not an offer that will last forever. The time is
right now for them to choose.
[16:25:03]
And then I'm not sure if you saw my colleague Fareed Zakaria, Vali, who, writing in "The Washington Post", this is what he put. Whatever the past
events have transpired that can make for a better deal today than before, the two fundamental shifts that are most relevant here are Iran's weakness
and Saudi Arabia's strength.
How much -- how true do you think that is? How much is this the best time, the best deal they're going to get? Speak to that. How conscious are they?
Are they that if this doesn't work out, then this may be it?
NASR: Well, look, this is this is the pressure that the United States is putting on Iran, is also putting on Saudi Arabia, because if there is a war
in the Middle East, it will cost the countries of the Gulf as well. And that's why they're so eager for this to be resolved diplomatically.
But I think the readiness on both sides to arrive at a deal is there. And when President Trump talks publicly, he's talking to his base. He's trying
to manage expectations. He's trying to look tough even when he might be making compromises. He likes to continue to push the Iranians and push
their buttons and put pressure on them.
But all of this grandstanding, and if you would, the public speaking is not really part of the negotiation itself. The negotiation is about details.
Yes. Iran is weakened that it needs a deal. Saudi Arabia is stronger and as a result, it can push the United States further to get to a deal.
But also, the United States needs this deal because President Trump clearly is not interested in another trillion dollar war in the Middle East. And he
knows that that the pressure is not just on Iran, it's also on him.
So, we have to read past the smoke screen of his grandstanding and what he says in public. I think that all is tried to portray to the Americans, and
particularly the critics on the Republican side, Democratic side, that he's not giving the shop away, that he's really standing hard against Iran, that
he's threatening him, that he's getting the best deal possible.
We've seen him do this with trade deals as well. But I think if we put all of this aside, I think there is progress. Theres steady progress. Every
time they meet, they're moving further. So I'm still optimistic that the diplomatic solution will be on the table.
SOARES: And we're grateful always to you, Vali, for giving us for blowing away that smokescreen is what we need at this moment.
Vali Nasr, thanks -- thanks very much, Vali. Good to see you.
NASR: Thanks.
SOARES: And still to come right here on the show -- you're very welcome -- peace talks in Turkey have wrapped up for today, though. The question of a
ceasefire remains unanswered. More details ahead on that high stakes meeting between Russia and Ukraine. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:05]
SOARES: And returning now to our top story progress. But no major breakthrough between Russia and Ukraine. Earlier teams from both countries
traveled to Istanbul in Turkey and held their first face to face talks in three years. They have now agreed to a large-scale prisoner swap, with more
talks on the horizon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSTEM UMEROV, UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTER: Our president was expecting the high-level discussions in here, and I think the next step would be that the
leaders level meeting should be organized, and that would be our next step. So, at this stage, we once again would like to reiterate Ukraine wants
peace. Ukraine is focused to people and were able and capable to continue fight. But at the end of the day, we need to finalize this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, what we want to know, will Vladimir Putin change his demands? Demands which European leaders have called unacceptable time and time
again? Even today, Keir Starmer saying, I will not accept Russia kicking a ceasefire down the road. Similar tone were hearing from President Macron.
Joining me now is Ambassador Kurt Volker, who's the former U.S. ambassador to NATO.
Ambassador, great to have you back on the show. Let me ask you, really, the same question I asked our correspondent who was in Turkey today. You know,
we've seen. Really a truly whiplash week of diplomacy, but it seems that Ukraine is pretty much where it started. Is it not?
AMB. KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I would say Ukraine is in a slightly better position.
SOARES: How so?
VOLKER: I think that it has demonstrated a willingness to have an immediate ceasefire and then turning that into a permanent ceasefire. It's
demonstrated a willingness to show up and to negotiate at the highest level. And this is all boxing Putin in a little bit.
That Putin originally said, okay, no ceasefire. You had Starmer, Macron and Zelenskyy and others re-up that demand. And he said, okay, no ceasefire.
Let's negotiate.
Zelenskyy says, okay, let's negotiate. I'll show up. You know, you come to. And then Putin doesn't show up for that. He sends this low-level
delegation.
And now, Zelenskyy has even used that to say, look, we can talk at a low level and we can do a few technical things like a prisoner exchange, but we
need to have a serious negotiation at a higher level, and Putin needs to do that. I think Ukraine has played this very, very well.
SOARES: Yeah, Ukraine. Throughout this week we saw a really calling their bluff. You say its cornering them. But you know, as we've heard today from
these talks, it seems Russia hasn't really moved when it comes to its maximalist position.
So, let's focus, Ambassador, on the diplomacy and the pressure. President Macron saying today that Russia is merely trying to buy time, basically
Russia's stalling.
Explain why you would do that. Would it do that because it's playing a long game or because it thinks that -- it hopes that President Trump is going to
lose interest here?
VOLKER: Well, the principal reason that they're doing that is because Putin is driven by his ideology of wanting to rebuild the Russian empire and
extinguish the idea of Ukrainian national identity. He is an ideologue, he's an imperialist, and he's genocidal, and that's what he's going to do.
And none of us should think that he's going to change, that. He's not going to, all of a sudden, say, okay, I give up. I'm not going to do that. No, he
this is what he's going to want to do for as far as we can see.
Now, the situation we're in is he wants concessions first in the direction of his maximalist demands before agreeing to a ceasefire. Well, we have to
do is flip the order there. We have to put enough pressure on Putin that he agrees to have a ceasefire, even though he still has those maximalist
demands later. And then we have to deter him from making future attacks.
[15:35:06]
SOARES: And we have hearing in the last 24 hours from two U.S. officials telling us, Ambassador, that Russia is amassing forces on the front lines
for a possible new offensive, clearly intended to capture yet more Ukrainian territory as we hit the summer. The ground is harder, easier for
them to capture that so that, you know, they're saying one thing, doing quite another.
The pressure then turns not so much to Europe, but mostly to the United States. We have heard a frustration of sorts from the Trump administration
the last few weeks. The tone has shifted. But while they say one thing, Ambassador, there are no red lines. There are no sticks.
What are we likely to see here from Trump now? Because let me read this. The editorial board at "The Wall Street Journal" today writes this. Mr.
Trump has made a sincere effort to broker an end to the war. But the president looks worse the longer Mr. Putin talks peace but prosecutes the
war.
Mr. Trump doesn't want the world to see him looking like a supplicant to the Kremlin. What is then his move, his next move here?
VOLKER: Well, I -- first off, I agree with the position that we need to start turning up the pressure on Putin dramatically, and that should
include consistency in military supplies to Ukraine. So, Putin knows that's going to continue. And secondary sanctions to really clamp down on Russia's
oil and gas and financial industry. Those are what we should be doing.
But I can explain what Trump is doing. What Trump is trying to do is lure Putin in, pull him into a negotiation. He doesn't want to push him away. He
doesn't want to demonize him because he thinks that will scotch the whole idea of negotiation.
I think it's a misunderstanding. I think that Putin views that kind of position as weakness and will exploit it. But I think Trump is very
cautious not to push Putin away.
What I would really like to see now is Congress step into the gap. I think Congress can authorize secondary sanctions that could be applied by the
administration, and they can authorize lend lease legislation for Ukraine. Let them borrow from us, buy American weapons and ammunition. The money
never leaves the United States and yet use that to show Putin that they're going to be fine. Ukraine is never going to lose here. So, Putin had better
get on with ending this war.
SOARES: So, Congress applying the pressure, why President Trump continues a diplomatic dance trying to bring him to the table. That is a tactic. Yeah.
VOLKER: It would strengthen Trump's hand. It would -- it would show -- it would allow Trump to show Putin in the world that look what's behind me.
I've got the authorities, I've got the means. I have people pushing me to do even more. Get this over with now.
SOARES: Ambassador Kurt Volker, always great to get your analysis. Thank you very much, sir.
VOLKER: Thank you.
SOARES: It's been called Super Sunday as millions head to the ballot box across Europe this weekend in Portugal, in Romania and Poland. There, Poles
are voting in a first round, choosing between liberal, conservative and far right candidates all vying to become president.
Meantime, in Romania, the far-right candidate and Trump admirer, George Simion, is the frontrunner. That's thanks to a surge in nationalism, that's
in central Europe over concerns over various things such as living, rising living costs, migration and security threats from Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES (voice-over): A MAGA-style candidate is upending Romanian politics. Far right candidate George Simion handily won the first round of voting in
the country's presidential election two weeks ago and is primed for the second round.
GEORGE SIMION, ROMANIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We totally bashed the globalist here in Romania. We won -- I had 40 percent of the votes and my
opponent in the second round had only 20 percent of the votes.
SOARES: Simion is a nationalist who admires U.S. President Donald Trump and has campaigned to make Romania great again. He's also been critical of the
European Union and opposes military aid to Ukraine. His main challenger on Sunday is Bucharest Mayor Nicusor Dan, a pro-E.U. centrist who came in
second in the first round.
NICUSOR DAN, BUCHAREST MAYOR/ROMANIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I call on all Romanians to be part of this battle, and I am optimistic that we will
win it. The Romania will maintain the Western direction.
SOARES: The political battle is viewed by many voters as a choice between East and West, and comes at a time of great upheaval in Romanian politics.
The last election was voided by a court in December after another far right candidate, Calin Georgescu, narrowly won the first round of voting.
Georgescu bolted from relative obscurity to lead of the polls after a viral TikTok campaign.
[15:40:04]
But the results of that vote were annulled and Georgescu was banned from running again after widespread accusations of election irregularities and
Russian interference, which Moscow denies.
So, Sunday's vote is the second round of voting in a second presidential election. The last two ballots, dominated by anti-establishment candidates.
And all eyes are on what Romanians will decide next.
GABRIELA ISPAS DUMITRU, VOTER: I want a president who's willing to fight, not in a physical sense, but through negotiation in the interest of Romania
and the Romanian people.
TUDOR HRISTESCU, VOTER: I think the direction in which Romania should go is a pro-European, democratic path, as far away from Russia and as close to
the West as possible.
SOARES: The stakes for Romania and its future alliances couldn't be higher.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: A veteran air traffic controller speaking out publicly for the first time about the communication blackout at Newark Liberty International
Airport. Jonathan Stewart supervises the facility in Philadelphia that handles flights in and out of that busy airport outside New York City. He
spoke with "The Wall Street Journal" about the serious challenges that air traffic controllers face.
Here's CNNs Pete Muntean with more on that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: This new reporting from "The Wall Street Journal" comes after I spoke to a controller in the Newark air
traffic control facility at the time of that first systems meltdown 18 days ago. That case brought all the equipment and staffing problems there to
light. And he told me at the time that losing radar and radio is about the worst possible thing that can happen to you on the job.
Five controllers took trauma leave because of that incident, leading to the FAA imposing rolling flight delays. More than a thousand Newark flights
canceled, and this new reporting by the journal says the controller they spoke to experienced a near-miss a few days after this saga began on May
4th.
In his interview, controller Jonathan Stewart said he averted a collision when two planes were pointed head on. He also took an apparent stand
against United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby. After that first Newark systems blackout, Kirby says controllers, quote, walked out on the job.
The controller I spoke to said that was a gross misclassification, and I want you to listen now to this new controller, who told "The Journal" that
Newark controllers love their job, but are stressed to the limit.
JONATHAN STEWART, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: To say that someone would basically game the system and take trauma leave when they were not
traumatized is insulting at best and just quite frankly, misinformed. No way, shape or form. Was that what happened? Nobody walked off the job of
their own free will.
MUNTEAN: One more interesting detail here, Stewart said because of the blackouts, he did not have faith in his radar scopes, so he resorted to
writing down flight numbers in a notebook. We reached out to the FAA and NTSB about that near collision he describes in this new interview with "The
Journal".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Pete Muntean.
Well, testimony has wrapped up for the ex-girlfriend of Sean "Diddy" Combs? The judge requested both sides finish their questions today for Cassie
Ventura due to her advanced stage of pregnancy. The prosecution believes Ventura's testimony shows Combs's and his associates engaged in illegal
activity. Sean Combs is accused of racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. He has pleaded
not guilty to all charges.
Well, singer Chris Brown is being held in British custody over an alleged nightclub attack. Brown is facing allegations that he beat a music producer
with a bottle in London in 2023. Earlier, a judge said Brown would be held until his next hearing on June 13th and that is the same day he was -- he
has a concert scheduled in Germany. The judge requested a bail request, saying the accusation was, quote, extremely serious.
And still to come right here on the show, it's the maker of a blockbuster weight loss drug, and the combined price of all of its shares once exceeded
Denmark's annual gross product. So why has its CEO decided to step down?
Anna Stewart, hopefully, will have all the answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: It was once Europe's most valuable company. Now it's looking for a new leader to try to get back on track. Novo Nordisk, which manufactures
the weight loss drug Wegovy, said its CEO is stepping down and the company's share price has fallen by a whopping. As you can see there, 52
percent in the past year.
Anna Stewart is with me monitoring it all.
Anna, I'm seeing that the reason he's stepping down by mutual agreement, citing recent market challenges. What is that exactly?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there are many.
SOARES: There are many. I'm just thinking tariffs. The tariffs have anything to do with this?
STEWART: I mean, tariffs is a potential headwind currently. Farmers actually immune from tariffs although it's something that President Trump
could maybe target in the future. They're investigating it.
But really this is a tale of competition. This is a company that created two blockbuster drugs, Wegovy and Ozempic. It propelled it to become the
most valuable company in Europe. At one stage, it was more valuable than the annual GDP of Denmark, the company where it is headquartered.
And in the last year we have seen share price falling more than 50 percent, wiping off $300 billion off its market value. Now. Why? Well. It's having
to cut its profit forecast. It's cutting its sales forecast. The sales of Wegovy came in pretty weak last week. As a result, the CEO is being ousted
and the competition is last year, the U.S., FDA, the regulator in the U.S., decided to allow copycat drugs because there was such a shortage of the
drug. Novo Nordisk couldn't make enough of the stuff.
Then you have Eli Lilly, which is a big U.S. brand, and they have two very successful, very similar drugs. They got Zepbound and Mounjaro. Those are
selling extremely well. So, this is a case of competition.
SOARES: And it's what a turnaround for them. As we look at the last two years of their share price. And you know, probably one of the very few
companies that you've been looking at where really tariffs haven't been the driving force, right? And there are many, many, as you and I have discussed
on the show, you have been looking at potential tariffs in the film industry here in the U.K., what have you -- what have you found?
STEWART: It's been quite hard to keep up with the many targets of tariffs from the U.S.
SOARES: I know.
STEWART: One of the targets is of course the film industry. President Trump doesn't like that some of the big American Hollywood studios actually
outsource a lot of their production for a number of reasons. Overseas, where there is cheaper location costs, tax breaks. Also, whether it's just
niche talent and expertise that has been nurtured for many decades, like costume making, which has, you know, I love costume making.
SOARES: I know you do.
STEWART: Huge presence in Europe, particularly in London. And I had a lovely opportunity to go take a look and see how worried they were about
tariffs.
Let's have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART: Oh, this looks fun. I can see bonnets already.
(voice-over): We're stepping into another world, certainly a different era.
OLIVIER STOCKMAN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, SANDS FILMS: This is the Marie Antoinette, used the famous pink dress in the Marie Antoinette.
STEWART: Wow. That's beautiful.
From Marie Antoinette --
(VIDEO PLAYING)
STEWART: -- to Les Miserables --
(VIDEO PLAYING)
STEWART: -- and more recently, Snow White.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
STEWART: British company Sands Films has been making period costumes for films like these for some 50 years.
OK. Well, looking through the endless rows of costumes, this is one you may recognize. This was in the movie "Little Women". Now, clearly, this is
based on an American novel. It was produced by an American company, Columbia Pictures, and it was largely filmed in Massachusetts, but the
costumes were designed and made here in South East London.
Some of Hollywood's biggest blockbusters are made in Britain, like the latest "Mission" Impossible".
(VIDEO PLAYING)
STEWART: -- whether it's the location or in the case of Barbie --
(VIDEO PLAYING)
STEWART: -- the Warner Bros. Studio in Leavesden, Hertfordshire. Last year, Hollywood spent more than $1.8 billion in the UK, employing nearly 200,000
people in the industry, and President Trump isn't happy about it.
TRUMP: They have the nice sign and everything is good, but they don't do very much.
STEWART: His threat to slap tariffs on foreign-made films has its skeptics.
STOCKMAN: I would say it's impossible to put a tariff on the film because the film is a non-tangible asset. That is the -- that's the issue at stake.
That's what they want to do, is to bring back employment in Hollywood. Now, to do that, they would have to make the financial environment for the film
production to find it more attractive to do in Hollywood than to do it in Pinewood or in Hungary or in Australia, for that matter.
STEWART: Businesses like Sands Films aren't worried. They plan to be making costumes for all the eras and sizes for decades to come.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: It doesn't seem they're very worried about it.
[15:55:01]
STEWART : That costume maker is certainly not worried, and I think a lot of people question, even if this threat comes true, even if this were to
happen, how would you implement a tariff on parts of movies being made elsewhere? It's not a good that you import/export. It's kind of unclear how
any of this would work.
So, at this stage it feels like quite an empty threat. But we'll see.
SOARES: But it goes back to the point that you've been making around so many of the tariffs, which is, you know, President Trump doesn't have the
infrastructure in place in the United States to even -- even if they did take away to actually do something like this back home.
STEWART: And the only way to make it really worthwhile is to offer great tax incentives to bring it back as well. So even if you did have the
infrastructure and all the labor that you required to bring everything back to the United States, it's going to be hard for those Hollywood studios to
make that make sense.
SOARES: Appreciate the piece, Anna. Shame you didn't get into the costumes, though. It would be great.
STEWART: Large, pregnant for it.
SOARES: That does it for us. Thanks very much for your company.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Paula Newton up next. Have a wonderful weekend.
END
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