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What We Know with Max Foster

Trump Makes Unsubstantiated Claims Of "White Genocide"; Israel Faces Backlash After Warning Shots Fired At Diplomats; State Media: Putin Makes First Visit To Kursk Since Russia Claimed To Have Recaptured The Region; Police: Aide To Former Ukrainian President Killed Near Madrid; Trump Agenda Bill Still Facing Roadblocks In The House. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:22]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Donald Trump tries to prove white genocide is happening in South Africa, his words, using information that has repeatedly

been disproven.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Today's meeting in the Oval Office started out pretty smoothly, until the U.S. president zeroed in on his unsubstantiated claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people are very concerned with regard to South Africa, and that's really the purpose of the

meeting. And we'll see how that turns out. But we have many people that feel they're being persecuted, and they're coming to the United States. And

we take from many, many locations if we feel there's persecution or genocide going on.

And we had a lot of people. I must tell you, Mr. President, we have had a tremendous number of people, especially since they've seen this. Generally,

they're white farmers and they're fleeing South Africa. And it's a -- you know, it's a very sad thing to see. But I hope we can have an explanation

of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Those meetings taking place, you can imagine how contentious they're getting. CNN has looked at data, though, from the African police,

found no evidence of white genocide.

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa remained calm while strongly denying Mr. Trump's claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: If there was Afrikaner farmer genocide, I can bet you these three gentlemen would not be here,

including my minister of agriculture. He would not be with me. So, it will take him, President Trump, listening to their stories, to their

perspective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Last week, 59 white South Africans with refugee status arrived in the U.S. with their applications expedited. The administration has

suspended all other refugee resettlement. So, it was a stark scene.

Kevin Liptak joins us from the White House.

I mean, it does have echoes, doesn't it, of the Zelenskyy meeting the way the president was ambushed was something that he clearly wasn't expecting.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. And I've never seen anything like that in the Oval Office. The president and his team clearly

preparing, as you described it, this ambush for President Ramaphosa when it comes to these baseless claims of white genocide, the president asking his

team to dim the lights and then screening what is essentially sort of a political video that he says backed up what he says is persecution of white

South Africans. The video itself did not depict the government of Cyril Ramaphosa. It depicted an opposition politician, Julius Malema, the head of

the communist party, something of a firebrand in South Africa.

President Ramaphosa was very quick to say that he doesn't associate with the language and the rhetoric that was depicted in the video, that it

doesn't represent the governing party of South Africa, and went on to try and sort of pick apart the president's claims, making the point that you

just made that data doesn't show white South Africans being targeted or killed at higher rates than black South Africans trying to use the members

of his delegation, which included not only the white agriculture minister, but also two white South African golfers, that President Trump actually

knows fairly well.

At the end of all of this, it was not clear at all that President Trump had been convinced. In fact, he continued to sort of flip through these printed

out articles that he said backed up his claims and sort of repeated over and over the words death, death, death. And so, it was clear the president

very much still sort of down this conspiratorial rabbit hole when it comes to these claims.

You know, I think it was inevitable that the president would raise this suggestion in the meeting. It's something that he's been talking about for

quite some time, even dating back to his first term in office. Obviously, President Ramaphosa would have come in somewhat prepared to try and rebut

those claims, but I don't think that he could have necessarily expected that kind of spectacle that we saw play out in the Oval Office. We saw just

before they arrived, the screens being rolled in. The president clearly prepared to try in some ways to put him on the spot, to try and say what

exactly is going on there.

He was very calm in how he responded, sort of even keeled. He's clearly an experienced politician and experienced diplomat on the world stage. But

this meeting, you know, quite remarkable in a lot of ways, not something that anyone I think has ever seen before, Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Kevin, that's you saying that as well. Thank you.

So, what we want to know is, is there white genocide happening in South Africa?

[15:05:04]

Is there any evidence? Did Larry Madowo see that in the White House today? He's the person that really knows all of this. So, what did you make of

what the president, President Trump presented to the president of South Africa, Larry?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Max, the short answer is no. There's no white genocide in South Africa. And if there is, we have found no evidence

of it. And we have looked. Trust me, we have.

For instance, we looked at the police data from April to December 2024. There were a total of 36 farm murders in South Africa. Of those, only seven

of them were farmers. South African police do not release crime statistics by race, but the farmers tend to be white. The workers tend to be either

black or colored, and that tracks with the general population.

What the white South African agriculture minister did mention are that oval office meeting was true, that there's a rural safety problem. South Africa

can be dangerous. There are many murders, thousands of them in that same period, but they disproportionately affect Black people who make up 80

percent of the population or more. So, the most people who tend to get killed in these violent incidents are also Black.

President Ramaphosa did what you're supposed to do, what every world leader has learned in these circumstances. You flattered Donald Trump. You bring

him a gift. He brought him a 14-kilogram book about golf. He complimented him about the redecoration of the White House. He thanked him for having

sent some equipment during COVID.

And President Trump was initially gracious, said, thank you and were going to have a great meeting. And then he laid out this multimedia ambush with

the 4-1/2-minute video montage of videos taken out of context of printouts, a ream of papers of repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories.

Overall, this was a very good day. It was a gift to the white supremacists of South Africa because they had the president of the United States

repeating their talking points often word for word, without any pushback, because President Ramaphosa had to try and make sure that he keeps on

message, push back against this white genocide, claim that unsubstantiated while focusing on what he really went there to do, which is try and get a

trade deal with the U.S., which is South Africa's second largest trade partner.

I spoke to President Ramaphosa last week. He expected that this would be confrontational, and he said something that I learned at the feet of Nelson

Mandela. We are a rainbow nation. When something's not right, we sit down and talk about it.

And he also said something else that these 59 Afrikaner refugees that showed up in the United States are a fringe group. They are anti-change and

anti-transformation. And they would prefer that South Africa goes back to the days of apartheid.

But President Ramaphosa believes they've gone past that. And that's what he's trying to explain to President Trump today. It did not work out, Max.

FOSTER: We are hearing from some viewers in South Africa who are white and talking about how they feel discriminated against. They accept it's not

genocide. There have been cases of white farmers being attacked.

Just put that into context, though, because were talking about particular cases, aren't we? And this is a country with a very high murder rate.

MADOWO: It's a very high murder rate. There's thousands of people that were killed between April and December. Many of them are black.

Yes, farmers in South Africa fear for their lives. And some of the guests that Ramaphosa brought talked about that and even appealed for us help to

deal with that. The agriculture minister mentioned that they have a rural safety problem. Thats something they have to deal with.

But even those we spoke to on Tuesday before this meeting, farmers, black and white, said there's no evidence of a white genocide. They have safety

and security issues that they want to deal with. But a lot of these claims have been fanned by the famous South African born entrepreneur Elon Musk,

who was also at this meeting.

And it's become a major issue on the right in the United States. It's been embraced by the MAGA right, and they have repeatedly amplified these

instances. Thats why it's gotten to the president of the United States. And that's where we are here now.

The issues exist. And the president of South Africa has to deal with them. I think the major issue was that video of Julius Malema, the far-left

opposition leader of the economic freedom fighters, where he says he sings "Kill the Boer, kill the farmer". This is an old anti-apartheid song, most

popular in the `80s.

It's come back again recently because Julius Malema keeps repeating it, and he's responded to that video being played at the Oval Office, he said. A

group of old white men, a group of old men rather gathered at the White House to gossip about him. He said there's no evidence of a white genocide,

but it will not distract them from their core message, which is land expropriation without compensation. The EFF and Julius Malema would like

South Africa to go a lot further than the law President Ramaphosa signed in January. They want farms to be seized from white farmers.

What the law does, which President Trump does not understand, is it allows the South African government to seize unused farmland if it is deemed to be

just, equitable and in the public interest, Max.

FOSTER: Okay. Larry, thank you for bringing us that context on this remarkable meeting at the White House.

[15:10:01]

Now tensions flaring today in the occupied West Bank. Israeli forces fired warning shots towards a delegation of European and Arab diplomats near the

Jenin refugee camp. The Israeli military says the delegation had deviated from an approved route and entered a restricted area. No injuries reported.

The incident drew immediate international condemnation, though, while the Palestinian Authority's foreign ministry called for accountability. The IDF

says it, quote, regrets the inconvenience caused.

Israel's prime minister says he believes his military probably killed Hamas's de facto leader, Mohammed Sinwar. This after Israeli sources told

CNN Sinwar was the target of a strike on a Gaza hospital earlier this month.

Here was the prime minister speaking earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We eliminated tens of thousands of terrorists. We eliminated the leaders of

the murderers, Deif, Haniyeh, Yahya Sinwar and most likely Mohammed Sinwar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: More now from Jeremy Diamond. He's in Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, quite a remarkable situation unfolding in the occupied West Bank today. Israeli soldiers

opening fire in the direction of a diplomatic delegation, a group of diplomats from more than 20 countries were in Jenin, going around the Jenin

refugee camp to get a sense of the humanitarian situation on the ground, when suddenly Israeli troops began firing what the Israeli military is

describing as warning shots.

In one of the videos from the scene, you can hear at least seven shots are fired by these soldiers who aimed their weapons above the diplomats who

were all gathered in one area.

Now, the Israeli military says that yes, the diplomats did coordinate their plans for this visit today, but they claim -- the military claims that

these diplomats went to an unauthorized area. And that's why those troops fired those warning shots. What they don't explain is why using live

ammunition was necessary to convey a point that could have been conveyed with words. What is clear, though, is that this has sparked quite a

diplomatic uproar already.

We have seen France and Italy both summoned the Israeli ambassadors to their countries for a formal explanation. The European Union, for its part,

calling for an investigation by the Israeli military into this incident.

Now, also today, we have heard from the Israeli prime minister directly as these cease fire and hostage deal negotiations are still underway, the

prime minister making clear that he is willing to go for a temporary ceasefire that secures the release of some hostages under the right

conditions. He's also making clear, though that he will not end the war, at least not unless Hamas agrees to his litany of demands, some of which have

become clear red lines for Hamas.

The Israeli prime minister saying that he would only end the war if Hamas releases all the hostages, but also if it disarms. If Gaza is

demilitarized, and a new condition that he added to the list today is if Trump's voluntary migration plan for Gazans is carried out effectively, the

mass displacement of a large share of Gaza's 2 million plus population.

The Israeli prime minister also talking about the recent Israeli strike targeting Mohammed Sinwar, Gaza's -- Hamas de facto leader in the Gaza

strip, the prime minister saying that it seems that Sinwar was probably killed in that strike. Still, no official word from the Israeli military.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: While that plays out, Gaza inches closer to famine. In fact, here's what the emergency coordinator for Doctors Without Borders says, the

Israeli authorities' decision to allow a ridiculously inadequate amount of aid into Gaza signals their intention to avoid the accusation of starving

people in Gaza, whilst in fact keeping them barely surviving.

This is what that looks like. Hungry people fighting for food. The United Nations says Israel allowed 100 aid trucks into Gaza. However, that aid

hasn't been distributed. They add the enclave needs 500 trucks of aid per day to survive. A doctor working in Gaza says the entire population is

suffering unimaginable horrors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. TOM POTOKAR, PLASTIC SURGEON, IDEALS CHARITY: This situation is, yeah, it's just -- it's -- it really has reached the point of utter inhumanity.

And, you know, this is not against a few individuals or even a few hundred or a few thousand. This is the whole population of Gaza that is being

absolutely, you know, the suffering they're going through, the stories that we see on a daily basis, of whole families wiped out, children being stuck

under rubble, crying for help, and the rescuers can't even get to them because they're getting shot at trying to get to them. People evacuating

five, ten times to different places, people starving.

I mean, looking around the table this morning of my clinical colleagues was like looking at images that were more used to seeing from other parts of

the world. You know, gaunt, hollow faces. The cases were treating. The wounds aren't healing. They're all getting infected because people can't --

their immune systems aren't functioning properly because of months of stress and months of the lack of food. So, it really is a catastrophic

situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN obtaining radio intercepts and drone video elsewhere, appearing to show Russian soldiers killing surrendering Ukrainian troops.

We'll have an exclusive report on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Russia's president has made his first visit to Kursk since Moscow claimed to have completely recaptured the region from Ukrainian forces.

Russian state media reporting that Vladimir Putin on Tuesday visited the Kursk nuclear power plant, which is currently under construction. He also

reportedly met with municipal leaders.

The visit comes as the Russian president withstands pressure to agree to a 30-day ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine.

CNN has obtained intercepted radio chatter, meanwhile, and drone footage that appears to capture Russian orders to execute a group of Ukrainian

soldiers even though they had just surrendered.

Ukrainian officials say the chilling exchange provides further evidence that Russian superiors are ordering the killing of Ukrainian troops in

violation of international law.

[15:20:00]

Nick Paton Walsh has this exclusive report and a warning: the images, some of them are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Arta, listen to me! Ask who the commander is. Take the commander and kill everyone else!

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Before even this moment of surrender, the fate of these six Ukrainian troops was sealed. Ukrainian drone images from the southern front

last November show the horror that comes after defeat. A Russian hiding in the bushes shoots one Ukrainian in the head.

Ukrainian officials gave CNN intercepts of Russian radio orders from their commanders to their troops here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Take them to the road.

WALSH: We can't verify them independently, but they help paint a chilling picture of what appeared to be executions, to order, of a plan to kill

prisoners given from above.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Get the f**k out! Take the senior one and get rid of the others!

WALSH: The Russian in the bushes seems to fit a mask and then emerge. He's joined by another Russian. They talk. There's no visible threat from their

prisoners.

And one captive Ukrainian seems to gesture at them. But nothing changes his fate. Shot in the head calmly.

Another Ukrainian gets up, presumably, the commander, and takes off his armor. But the voice on the radio is impatient.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Did you take them down? That's a question!

WALSH: The commander is led away. In total, six times the order to kill was given, according to the intercepts.

A forensic study for CNN, the files and audio, found no reason they weren't authentic, and a Western intelligence official described them to us as,

quote, credible.

We have geolocated the footage of the killing to this tree line just outside of Novodarivka in Zaporizhzhia region, where fierce fighting raged

late last year. Ukrainian prosecutors say the executions of surrendering Ukrainian troops by Russians are increasing. They say they opened eight

cases in all of 2023, 39 for all of last year. And in just the first four months of this year, 20.

YURII BIELOUSOV, UKRAINE PROSECUTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE: It's a well- coordinated and well-planned policy and execution of prisoners of war, as well as other war crimes which have been committed in Ukraine. I think that

goes up to the -- to the presence of Russian Federation who, who, for example, when it was the example of Kursk area, when there were -- when he

conducted like a military meeting or something, and when he said that we should treat them as terrorists and everyone knows how Putin treats people

who they call terrorists. So it's almost synonym for us to execute.

WALSH: The U.N. special rapporteur on extrajudicial killing told CNN the executions would not happen in such numbers and frequency without orders or

at the very least, consent from highest military commanders, which in Russia means the presidency.

Another video supplied to CNN by a Western intelligence official shows a similar scene, also from Zaporizhzhia. Ukrainians are surrounded and

surrendering to Russians with red tape on their helmets.

But two others join them, white tape on their helmets. They appear to use their radios and then a white helmet opens fire.

As the smoke clears, a red reloads his weapon and shoots another Ukrainian in the head. There's no radio intercept here, but a Western intelligence

official told CNN the order to kill likely came from the white to the red, killings aimed at hitting Ukrainian morale, but also cynically just at

easing Russian logistics.

This affects the morale and psychological state of our guys, he says. We have facts when the Russian military and political leadership directly gave

verbal instructions not to take prisoners and to shoot those captured on the spot, because it complicates military logistics from their point of

view -- a stark window into Moscow's mindset. Surrender means nothing, and mercy is not an option.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now to Spain where police say a former Ukrainian politician is being shot dead just outside the capital. Andriy Portnov had worked as a

senior aide to pro-Russian former President Viktor Yanukovych. Police say Portnov was shot several times as he was getting into a car outside the

American school of Madrid. They say assailants shot him in the back and head before fleeing into the woods.

Al Goodman is in Madrid with more for us -- Al.

AL GOODMAN, JOURNALIST: Hi, Max.

The shooting happened at 9:15 local time this morning, just outside the American school, which is over there. Madrid's regional emergency services

says Portnov received three gunshot wounds, including one to the head.

[15:25:03]

And he died just after the first ambulance arrived here on the scene.

Now, all of this was just minutes after this. This area was crowded with students going in for the start of the school day. The school issued a

statement to parents saying they thought that the victim was the father of a student at the school, pending formal identification. The American school

has just over a thousand students from the United States, from Spain, and from about two dozen other countries.

Now, Portnov was sanctioned by the United States in 2021 for alleged corruption and bribery under something called the Magnitsky Act. He was

accused of trying to influence Ukrainian courts to undermine reforms that have been promoted by Ukraine's uprising. Pro-democracy uprising back in

2014. That's when the president that Portnov was serving was ousted.

The Magnitsky Act freezes assets and prevents entry to the United States for certain Russian officials and business leaders who are accused of human

rights violations. Portnov fled Ukraine just months after Russia's invasion in 2022 there, according to reports. And he ended up here in Madrid -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Al, thank you for that update.

House Republicans pulled an all-nighter. It's unclear -- what is clear, rather, the debate over President Trump's massive domestic policy bill is

far from over. The latest on where it is now, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: More now on our top story. The astonishing Oval Office meeting between President Donald Trump and the president of South Africa, Cyril

Ramaphosa.

[15:30:02]

It quickly turned from a friendly gathering to an extremely tense one, after Mr. Trump's unsubstantiated claims that white South African farmers

were victims of genocide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Look, these are articles over the last few days. Death of people. Death, death. Death, horrible death. Death. You're taking peoples land away

from them.

And those people, in many cases, are being executed. They're being executed. And they happen to be white. And most of them happen to be

farmers. And that's a tough situation.

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity

are not only white people. Majority of them are black people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, in the coming hours, President Trump plans to meet with Republican hardliners who say they're not ready to give his so-called big,

beautiful bill the green light. His other focus today.

Right now, House Republicans continue marathon talks on the legislation critical to implementing the president's agenda with a razor thin majority.

House Speaker Mike Johnson can't afford very many no votes. He told CNN earlier he's hoping to bring the bill to the floor as soon as tonight.

However, the holdouts appear to be standing firm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ANDY HARRIS (R-MD): We demand that waste, fraud and abuse be addressed in Medicaid. It's inadequately addressed in the current bill. And

we believe that as much of the green new scam should be eliminated as is possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is with us.

So are these holdouts a very small group, very powerful group at the moment. Do they all have one single concern the president could negotiate

on, or are they all different reasons for holding out?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a really structural issue with this bill. That is why it's going to be very difficult to

alleviate their concerns. Look, the biggest concern here, Max, is they are concerned about the impacts on the U.S. debt and the impacts on the annual

deficits as well. The projection under one analysis by a nonpartisan group looking at the impact on this bill, that it could add more than $3 trillion

to the deficits over the next several years.

And that's a bridge too far for many of these members, because it would have a sweeping overhaul of the U.S. tax code. It would cut taxes, meaning

less revenue. And as a result, they're demanding deeper spending cuts to offset the revenue loss.

But the spending cuts have been are very divisive. If they go too far on the spending cuts side, then they lose support from some of the more

moderate members in the House Republican conference who are trying to defend some of those programs. One of those key programs, the issue of

Medicaid, that is the health care program for the for the poor and disabled here in the United States. There is a push by those hardliners to cut more

into Medicaid, but that would cause opposition from the more moderate members.

And there's also a push by those hardliners to get rid of green energy tax breaks that were enacted under the Democrats Inflation Reduction Act. But

those same green energy tax breaks are supported by some of the more moderate members.

So therein lies the issues that the president and the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, are contending with. If they go too far one side, they lose

support from the other side. So, expect at this meeting an effort by the president to pressure these Republican hardliners to fall in line behind

his agenda, because he's going to essentially say, this is it, accept it or leave it. If you don't, he will potentially could come after them in their

elections.

We'll see if that pressure campaign works. It has worked on other issues in the past, but on this issue, debt and deficit much different here, Max. And

you know why they have so much power in this House. It's narrowly divided. Just three Republican defections will be enough to scuttle Mike Johnsons

plans altogether.

But the speaker just told me moments ago, Max, he wants the vote to happen. Still, as soon as tonight. So well see who blinks first, whether the

speaker gets his way, Max.

FOSTER: Another late night for Manu Raju there in the Capitol. Thank you so much.

Musk, Buffett, Zuckerberg, we all know their names. They are the richest of the rich. And the past year has been pretty good for them. New analysis

from Oxfam found that the ten wealthiest Americans became $365 billion richer over the past 12 months. By contrast, a typical American worker made

just more than $50,000 in 2023.

The ultra wealthy are now on the verge of becoming even richer, as U.S. congressional Republicans prepare to vote on Donald Trump's budget bill

that would turn temporary tax breaks for the highest earners into -- into permanent ones.

Let's bring in CNN business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkovich.

I mean, it's going to upset a lot of people this.

[15:35:00]

But, I mean, it has been a trend for years now.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly. And the ten richest people in America just got a lot richer in

the last year. And as you mentioned by a lot by (AUDIO GAP) billion dollars every single day in wealth gains.

Also, the average time for, as you mentioned, the American worker who makes about $50,000 every single year, they would have to work -- ten of them,

they would have to work 7,000 -- 726,000 years just to make that much.

Who are we talking about here? You mentioned a few, but we have Warren Buffett on the list. We have Jim and Bill -- excuse me, Rob Walton on the

list of Walmart. Also, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, who really made more than 50 percent of these wealth gains in the last year. And he's on his

way, some say, to becoming the world's first trillionaire.

But as you mentioned, there is a debate in Congress going on right now about this budget bill, and it's being called the One Big, Beautiful Bill

Act. But according to the Congressional Budget Office, it would increase resources to U.S. households. However, the gains would not be distributed

evenly.

And here's what it looks like. If you're looking at this bill, you're going to see the top 10 percent of earners are going to make take home 65 percent

of the gains or the benefits of this bill. The bottom 20,000, excuse me, 20 percent are going to lose an average of $1,000 in 2026. That is because of

cuts that we're seeing to programs like Medicaid and cuts to programs like food stamps. About $1 trillion in cuts to these programs. These are

programs that Americans who do not make as much money rely on.

So what this bill, according to some, some nonpartisan groups are saying, is that this bill is only going to sort of bridge -- make the disparity

even greater between the uber rich and those who are at the bottom 20 percent of earners here in the United States, but just really staggering

numbers to look at, really within this market volatility that we've seen. And of course, in this uncertain time in the U.S. economy, still, the ten

richest Americans making $365 billion in this last year, Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Vanessa, thank you so much. Extraordinary numbers.

U.S. stocks are in the red this hour. So, they might be losing a bit of money. Let's take a quick look. The Nasdaq down 1.4 percent, but they're

all down pretty sharply. The Dow and the S&P down more than 1 percent. Bonds and the dollar also falling today as investors become even more

concerned about the status of American assets.

Moodys decided to downgrade the U.S. credit rating on Friday. But the growing deficit is what many of them are focusing on. Republicans in

Congress are trying to advance that bill. We were talking about that Donald Trump is trying to push through and possibly tonight, Wall Street watching

pretty closely. They'll hear it first from Manu Raju, of course.

Now to a new shocking incident in Mexico. Two top aides for the mayor of Mexico City were ambushed in broad daylight, shot and killed. The city is

widely seen as safe from political violence.

Here's CNN's Valeria Leon. And we'd like to warn you that some of her images in this report are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Murder in broad daylight on their way to work. Two Mexico city officials, the mayors private secretary

and an advisor were ambushed on Tuesday morning on a busy avenue in the country's capital. CCTV capturing the moment when a gunman approaches

Ximena Guzman's car, just as her colleague Jose Munoz, is about to get in and shoots them both.

The country's president, Claudia Sheinbaum, was seen learning about the attack during her daily press conference breaking the news live. Minutes

later.

We express our solidarity and support for the families of these two individuals who have worked in our movement for a long time, Sheinbaum

said.

Authorities said they're investigating the motive for the killings, and added that they've seen a motorcycle near the scene and a vehicle nearby

that may be linked to the incident.

Mayor Clara Brugada was visibly emotional when she paid tribute to her two aides, with whom she said she shared dreams and struggles. She described

him as, quote, a wonderful, tireless and very good woman. And Jose, known as pepe, as quote, one of the most intelligent and responsible people I've

ever met.

[15:40:00]

To investigate, clarify and to ensure there is no impunity, the mayor said. This is our commitment.

As mayor of Mexico City, Brugada holds the second most powerful political position in the country after the president. The two women are allies in

the Morena Party.

Less than two weeks ago, Jessenia Lara Gutierrez, a mayoral candidate in the state of Veracruz, also from the ruling party, was gunned down during a

live stream alongside three other people.

And last year, Mexico saw a record number of victims of political violence. That's according to the human rights organization Data Civica, which

reported a total of 661 attacks on people and facilities. But while the targeting of politicians is a common crime across the country, attacks in

the capital are rare, making the assassination of members of the mayor's inner circle, particularly shocking.

Valeria Leon, CNN, Mexico City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, Italy's labor exploitation case against Dior is closed. But some say the luxury brand is getting off easily. We'll discuss,

just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Dior has agreed to pay more than $2 million over five years to support victims of labor exploitation following an antitrust probe.

Prosecutors in Milan had accused the luxury brand of underpaying workers, some of them undocumented. He made leather handbags and other goods in

workshops. Some critics say the company is getting off easily.

So what we don't know is, are luxury brands underpaying their workers and using their exploitative labor practices?

Joining me now is Aine Campbell, head of KnowTheChain, the Business and Human Rights Resource Centre.

[15:45:04]

Thank you so much for joining us.

I mean, when I saw this story, my first thought was really, you know, this isn't a new story and it's amazing that it's still going on and, you know,

arguably getting worse.

AINE CLARKE, KNOWTHECHAIN, BUSINESS & HUMAN RIGHTS RESOURCE CENTRE: Yeah. So, what we've been seeing and what we have seen historically in our

research on the luxury sector is that they are performing particularly poorly compared to their peers in knowing and showing their supply chains.

So, by publishing supplier lists, for example, and this failure has materialized in the legal action against Dior and Armani and Valentino last

year, where a convoluted subcontracting arrangement diluted company oversight of supply chains, supply chain risks.

And in addition to that, what we're seeing is luxury companies not demonstrating that they carry out robust human rights risk assessments on

their supply chains.

Now, while some risks can be mitigated by sourcing from Italy rather than Bangladesh, for example, the nature of sourcing relationships, insecure and

informal work, continuous downward pressure on prices in an inflationary environment, and the number of women and migrant workers which would be

classified as vulnerable workers involved in garment production, means that no company is immune from labor rights abuse, at least not luxury

companies.

FOSTER: I just think a lot of people will be very surprised to hear that there are 20,000 pound handbag isn't made by an artisan sitting in a attic

in Paris. And it doesn't seem clear that Dior even knows who's making them.

CLARKE: Well, as far back as 2018, allegations were emerging detailing worker exploitation, unauthorized subcontracting and forced overtime in the

sector.

In addition, there has been some investigations done to suggest that luxury companies are exerting the same downward pressure on prices as fast fashion

companies. In the meantime, production cycles for the luxury sector have increased to meet similar to meet the standards of the garment sector.

So, as you were saying, these allegations have existed for a long time. However, market incentives exist to perpetuate, you know, risky behavior

and a lack of corporate accountability across the sector.

FOSTER: But it's terrible for the brand, isn't it? I mean, the, you know, they are very sensitive brands. If they're associated with, you know,

unfair working practices and also, you know, the same quality product in some cases as retail stores. It feels like it's just a chase to maximize

the margins for a product that might not meet the brand, but also may undermine it because it's doing harm to society.

CLARKE: Yeah, absolutely. I think you know, brands need to wake up to the fact that, forced labor and labor abuse exists across supply chains and

across sectors and that they need to be conducting proactive, human rights due diligence to mitigate and address those risks to workers. Currently,

the market does not incentivize that type of due diligence process because it is costly.

And as you were saying, the margin growth, the profit margins between the production costs, the operational costs, and then the sales volume would

then would then decrease but it's not like these companies, which have experienced quite rapid growth over the past number of years,

notwithstanding the difficulties in the market at the moment would have the capital to do that -- would have the capital to invest in those processes

and, and those workers.

FOSTER: Okay. Aine, thank you so much for joining us with your knowledge of all of that. Thank you.

Now, Donald Trump has a new ride. The Pentagon says it has officially accepted that $400 million, 747 from Qatar. The plane will be outfitted

with special security and communications equipment and then put into use as the new Air Force One for Mr. Trump to ride in.

The gift of the plane is controversial, with critics saying the president shouldn't accept such a large gift from a foreign government. At the end of

his term, the plane will be transferred to his presidential library, where he'll presumably be able to use it whenever he wants. We'll have more on

this after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:13]

FOSTER: It was a very close call for a rock climber in California. This video from the Riverside County Sheriffs Aviation Unit shows the dramatic

helicopter rescue of a climber. The climber was scaling Lily Rock in southern California when he fell about 30 feet, had to be rescued by

helicopter crew. We don't know the identity or condition of the person, but officials say they did sustain a limb injury. I can't even look down from

there on camera.

On Thursday, America's top amphibian is giving the commencement speech at the University of Maryland. Kermit the Frog will deliver words of wisdom to

the graduates. His creator, Jim Henson, graduated from that school back in 1960.

Our Sara Sidner got the opportunity to speak with Kermit about the honor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I would like to start with a song.

KERMIT THE FROG: OK.

SIDNER AND KERMIT THE FROG: (Singing) "Rainbow Connection."

KERMIT THE FROG: That's pretty good.

SIDNER: I try. I try. I'm so glad we began this with a song, Kermit.

There's a lot going on in the world, Kermit --

KERMIT THE FROG: Um-hum.

SIDNER: -- as you well know.

KERMIT THE FROG: Yeah.

SIDNER: So what would you say to someone if they said frogs, and puppets, and public television weren't really worth the money?

KERMIT THE FROG: Hmm. Well, you know, what I would say I think all that stuff is part of the arts, and the arts are for everyone, you know -- even

a little humble little frog from the swamp. I'm not sure who I would be if I wasn't an artist. And art and creativity -- they've helped me find out

what I'm good at and meet my people and make millions of people happy.

SIDNER: Your people.

KERMIT THE FROG: Um-hum.

SIDNER: The Muppets.

KERMIT THE FROG: Yeah.

SIDNER: How do you stay calm while leading a group of totally chaotic, all over the place friends?

KERMIT THE FROG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Muppets, alright. When you're a -- you know, you're in something together with friends and with

like-minded folks it kind of feels less intimidating, I think.

You know, it kind of is something that's a little calming. And when it's not possible to be with friends and like-minded folks like I said, you

know, and I'm on stage alone, I just kind of remind myself that I have those friends out there somewhere and they believe in me. So why shouldn't

I believe in me too? And that kind of makes me calm.

SIDNER: I love that. This is a bit impromptu because I was just thinking about it, but when you blow your top it actually makes me feel better

because sometimes I blow my top.

KERMIT THE FROG: Oh, really?

SIDNER: Yeah.

KERMIT THE FROG: Well, I try not to but sometimes the feelings come out, you know? It's better not to just kind of bury those feelings down deep

inside and just kind of like let them out, you know. It can be frustrating. You know what I'm saying?

SIDNER: I know exactly what you're saying.

KERMIT THE FROG: I'm really sorry doing this in an interview situation.

[15:55:01]

You touched a nerve a little bit there.

SIDNER: OK. Are you going to be alright?

KERMIT THE FROG: No, I'm going to be fine. Yeah, I'm going to be fine.

SIDNER: OK. I just want to make sure nothing wild happens while we're doing this.

KERMIT THE FROG: No, nothing wild is going to happen I assure you. Animal is not in the room, is he? No?

SIDNER: I don't see him. But I love Animal. I think he is my spirit animal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Only Sara could have done that interview so well.

I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" up next.

END

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