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What We Know with Max Foster

Trump Holds Oval Office Farewell For Musk; White House Grapples With Whiplash Legal Rulings; U.N. Warns Gaza Is "Hungriest Place On Earth"; Trump Administration Seeks To Revoke Visas For Many Chinese Students; Supreme Court Allows Trump To Undo Biden's Migrant "Parole". Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 30, 2025 - 15:00   ET

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[15:00:25]

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST: Elon Musk bids farewell to the White House but says he will remain a close friend and adviser to U.S. President Donald Trump.

I'm Eleni Giokos. I'm in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Tech billionaire Elon Musk is saying farewell to his time in the Trump administration as the leader of the Department of Government Efficiency,

known as DOGE.

Now last hour, U.S. President Donald Trump thanked Musk while the two met in the Oval Office. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It goes to a very special people and I thought I'd give it to Elon as a presentation from our

country. Thank you, Elon.

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: Thank you. Thank you.

TRUMP: Take care of yourself.

MUSK: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Well, the pair discussed the impacts of DOGE. And here are some of what Musk said where its accomplishments. And of course, importantly, they

did a stocktake of what was done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: The DOGE team will only grow stronger over time. The DOGE influence will only grow stronger. It's -- I'd liken it to sort of Buddhism. It's

like a way of life. So, it is permeating throughout the government. And I'm confident that over time we'll see $1 trillion of savings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: While in charge of DOGE, Musk oversaw sweeping cuts to the U.S. federal workforce in an effort to reduce government spending. But some

experts claim DOGE could end up costing taxpayers in the long run due to staffing shortages at key federal agencies.

Now joining us, we've got Jeff Zeleny from the White House and media correspondent Hadas Gold to unpack the Oval Office briefing.

I want to start off with you, Jeff. And I mean, really interesting to listen to President Trump and doing a stocktake, essentially, of what Elon

Musk had achieved during his time, in government. Give me a sense of what really stood out to you.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, both men were clearly making the case that this is a very fond farewell, a very

friendly separation, if you will. But the reality is, in recent days, Elon Musk has talked about some of his frustrations about the size of the

government spending bill that was passed just last week by the House, as well as the difficulty in terms of reining in the size of government.

The reality here of the departure is that Elon Musk has been facing the pressure, the heat, in a business point of view from his shareholders at

Tesla. Most specifically, you know, which really have revolted against his -- the time spent in government. But also, we do not know really how this

DOGE is going to impact the government long term. It will take months to really decipher the lock, the loss of institutional knowledge that has

happened inside the government.

But the president made clear he's leaving on good terms and wants Elon Musk still in his corner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're totally committed to making the DOGE cuts permanent and stopping much more of the waste. Elon is really not leaving. He's going to

be back and forth. I think I have a feeling. It's his baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So even though it's been only about four months, a little bit more than that since this administration has been in power, Elon Musk was once

talking about saving two trillions of dollars, then one trillion. It has not reached anywhere near that. And now Elon Musk is really acknowledging

how much more difficult it was to cut government than he thought.

But the biggest question, perhaps going on from here, will Elon Musk remain a political player? He had vowed to help Republicans in the midterm

elections. He has since pulled that back and saying it's time for others to step forward. So, a $275 million investment in Donald Trump seemingly got

him elected and came to at least a bit of a conclusion here today.

GIOKOS: Yeah, I mean, Jeff, really interesting because the optics does they do come across as this very fond farewell and basically very complimentary

to one another.

ZELENY: Right.

GIOKOS: Hadas, I want to bring you in here. The question of influence in the government and of course, President Trump was saying, well, he's not

going to be completely gone. It sounds like he still will have his ear.

Give me a sense of what kind of influence we can expect Elon Musk to have in the government because President Trump categorically said he was one of

the most consequential government employees ever.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, he's the richest man in the world. He controls one of the biggest social media platforms in the

world. I think President Donald Trump completely recognizes that, recognizes that power and wants to keep align with it, saying that Elon

Musk, as he says, he doesn't necessarily agree with everything that President Trump does, but he wants to also keep that line open and continue

talking with them.

[15:05:08]

Elon Musk saying its not the end of DOGE. We are seeing a lot of senior DOGE figures, especially those like Steve Davies, Amanda Scales, who had

been with Musk at his companies, are also leaving DOGE, leaving the government and returning to Elon Musk's companies.

And as Jeff said, this was an obvious show off of the relationship. Musk on his platform X, has been reposting tweets of other people saying, you know,

people are misinformed, saying that the relationship was broken down between the two men. The relationship is great.

I mean, take a listen to what Elon Musk said about how he will interact with the president going forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: I expect to continue to provide advice whenever the president would like advice.

TRUMP: I hope so.

MUSK: I mean, I'm -- yeah, it's -- I expect to remain a friend and an advisor. And, certainly if there's anything the president wants me to do,

I'm at the president's service.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: And one very important connection that Elon Musk is taking with him as he leaves government is Katie Miller. She was a senior spokesperson for

DOGE at the White House. She's the wife of Stephen Miller, the deputy chief of staff.

And I reported, along with our colleagues, Alayna Treene and Kristen Holmes yesterday, that she is now going to be working for Elon Musk in a personal

capacity full time, helping him set up interviews and things like that. That's an obvious direct connection that will still exist between Elon Musk

and the White House.

But what's been really interesting to me over the last week or so is listening to Elon Musk in interviews show a sort of disillusionment and

disappointment in politics and in his experience in Washington, D.C. He said, I probably spent too much time on politics.

Walter Isaacson, who famously, of course, of course, wrote that big biography on Elon Musk, said in an interview this week, Musk was going to

get frustrated because he doesn't own the federal government, and essentially he couldn't make the changes he really wanted to make.

Elon Musk is now saying he's back to spending 24/7 focusing on his companies, many of which, like Tesla, need his help. Investors have been

clamoring for Elon Musk to come back. We've seen Teslas share price steadily increase as the news of Elon Musk departing Washington came

forward.

And he says that this is where he's going to be spending his focus. And a lot of his talk recently, its back to Mars, back to getting, the humans to

be a multi-planetary species. You know, all of these far out ideas. This is where his focus on now, I think he was very disappointed with what happened

in Washington.

GIOKOS: Yeah.

Jeff, look, this was a really interesting briefing because it was wide- ranging. It wasn't just about Elon Musk. We heard about trade. You know, basically starting off with this trade deficit for the month of April,

which has dropped quite dramatically. There were a lot of things on trade and China and other issues as well.

But the sense that you get is that President Trump is obviously trying to sort of show Americans and the world that his administration is on track,

despite the fact that Elon Musk and DOGE is now in question.

ZELENY: Sure he is, and was really specifically talking about some of those recent court rulings this week that have thrown into question one of the

centerpieces of his economic agenda, and that is his tariff policy. Of course, on Wednesday night, a federal court in New York, the court of

international trade, had put a pause on his tariffs. The U.S. appellate court here in Washington has lifted that, but only temporarily.

So, look, the bottom line here, there are many uphill challenges for this president and the administration in terms of their tariff policy. But not

just that, it's not happening in a vacuum that is used to or intended to be used to essentially fund his tax cuts. So, what has been a challenge here

is, is all the legal cases are going on. And it really has been a roller coaster of legal challenges.

What does that do to the trade deals that are not yet worked out? The administration still says they have several trade deals still to be almost

done. Well, we shall see about that. We've heard that repeatedly that there are going to be deals announced. So, we shall see.

So even though Elon Musk is leaving the challenges facing the president are more acute than ever in terms of a legislative challenge, starting with the

Senate, when they come back to Washington next week and start debating and going over and likely changing that House big budget and spending bill that

they passed before last week -- Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah.

All right. Jeff Zeleny, Hadas Gold, thank you so much for that update.

And at this hour, economies, businesses and consumers are stuck in a holding pattern, caught in the back and the forth legal battle over

President Donald Trump's sweeping global tariffs. Those tariffs are back on after an appeals court paused an earlier ruling from the Court of

International Trade blocking those levies, administration officials say they're working to try to forge new trade deals before a 90-day pause on

some of the highest tariffs expires.

Last hour in the Oval Office, President Trump praised those days, ruling by the appeals court. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If we didn't have the power to counteract their powers, you wouldn't have a country left. We have to act fast. We have to be fast and nimble, as

they say. And that was a really great moment I think yesterday when that stay was lifted. And hopefully now, we'll go to court and just win that

battle, because if we don't have the power to do what they're doing to us, we are going to be a great nation no longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Well, topping the list of things businesses and investors do not like, of course it is uncertainty. I want to take a look at U.S. markets

and in fact, the uncertainty on the tariff front is really seeping into market sentiment.

S&P 500 down slightly, and Nasdaq down half a percent. And the Dow is up slightly. And it's basically ending a winning month on a negative note. It

is Friday and it seems this entire week, big focus on tariffs. And importantly, what we've been seeing on the possible confrontation with

China once again.

We've got senior White House reporter Betsy Klein with us to give us an update. I want to talk about China and what we've been seeing. And of

course, President Trump has been talking about China. Not keeping to their agreement on the truce front. Seems like we could be getting into another

full confrontation.

What are you hearing? And what is Trump accusing China of in these violations? It seems to be centered around rare earths.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. Well, President Trump really went after China this morning in a post to social media, as White

House officials have been telling us that they're really not believing that China is holding up their end of the trade deal that was negotiated in

Geneva just a few weeks ago. After those talks, U.S. officials had expected China to ease export restrictions on rare earth minerals. Of course, those

are the building blocks for things like iPhones, fighter jets, dishwashers, everything.

But the president said in a post to social media earlier this morning, quote, China, perhaps not surprisingly to some, has totally violated its

agreements with us. So much for being Mr. Nice guy. But the president did appear to deescalate when asked about this in the oval office earlier

today.

Just moments ago, he said China violated a big part of the agreement we made. But he went on to say, I'm sure that ill speak to President Xi and we

will work that out. So that's going to be a very closely watched phone call.

But ahead of that, Trump had taken a series of punitive actions against China. He revoked the visas of Chinese students. He also limited critical

technology sales to China. And as you mentioned, and as Jeff laid out, all of this comes amid so much uncertainty for the president's broader economic

agenda. Of course, President Trump has spent the last few months really reshaping and transforming the role of the U.S. economy in the world with

his tariff policies.

Now the courts are having their say, trying to transform his economic agenda themselves. We saw that ruling by the three-judge panel from the

U.S. court of international trade. That includes one judge that Trump himself appointed during his first term. They blocked the president global

tariffs. And then another appeals court ruled restoring Trump's ability to keep those tariffs in place. Of course, a temporary reprieve while this

plays out.

But Trump in a post called that ruling wrong and political. He expressed hope that the Supreme Court would reverse what he described as a horrible,

country threatening decision.

Now, there has been so much uncertainty, as we've mentioned, two key questions here going forward. Number one, what happens to these trade

deals, a lot of these countries that the U.S. is negotiating with, want to wait a beat for this to play out in the courts, see what happens. The U.S.

officials, of course, are saying let's carry on, proceed, see if we can get these deals completed as though there is no interference from the court.

And separately, what happens to that so-called Big, Beautiful Bill? It passed the House. It has not yet passed the Senate, but it really relies on

revenue from those tariffs to offset the cost of those tax cuts. So, both questions the White House is really struggling to have answers to. At this

stage, we'll be watching quite closely.

GIOKOS: Yeah, exactly. And actually, President Trump in the Oval Office a short time ago said that he wanted to see more and more aggressive tax

cuts. So, who knows how this will play out.

Betsy Klein, great to have you with us. Thank you so much.

And coming up on the show, more chaotic scenes at a new aid distribution site in Gaza. Palestinians say they are forced to dodge gunfire while

waiting for food. We'll bring you that story right after this short break.

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:42]

GIOKOS: Welcome back.

The U.N.'s humanitarian office says Gaza is the only place in the world where the entire population is at risk of famine, calling it the hungriest

place on earth. It says Israel is still blocking all but a trickle of aid, with almost no ready to eat food, reaching people in need. Palestinians

have been crowding a handful of new aid distribution sites run by a U.S.- Israeli backed foundation. The U.N. says the operation is drip feeding food into an area on the verge of catastrophic hunger.

The U.S. and Israel say the controversial mechanism for distributing aid is meant to keep it away from Hamas. But Palestinians tell CNN there is no

screening at the new facilities at all. The new operation has been marred by chaos yet again, and we've seen people running from what appears to be

gunfire.

Asked about the gunfire, the U.S.-Israeli-backed foundation said it was unaware of those claims. And listen to one Palestinian man's account.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHER AL-JARBA, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): They have been firing at us since the morning. There are injuries. It's humiliating. We have had

enough. We can't bear any more of this. I came here to receive aid so I can feed my children. That's the only reason that brought us here. The entire

population is starving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: All week, we've been hearing stronger condemnation of Israel's actions from leaders in Europe. And French President Emmanuel Macron says

Israel has hours or days to improve the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, or face a tougher stance that could include sanctions.

Mr. Macron also said the creation of a Palestinian state is a moral duty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): If we don't see a response that matches the humanitarian situation in the next few hours or

days, we will obviously have to take a tougher collective stance and in any case, apply the rules we have set for ourselves. This means putting an end

to any ongoing processes that pre-require respect for humanitarian rights, which is not the case today, and apply sanctions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Those remarks come just a day after Israel announced plans to dramatically expand settlements in the occupied West Bank.

[15:20:02]

Israel's foreign ministry has replied, accusing President Macron of being on a, quote, crusade against the Jewish state.

Joining me now from Israel is political analyst and human rights attorney, Diana Buttu.

Diana, really good to have you with us.

Look, there's a lot that's happening. I mean, in the background of all of this. We also know that there's a potential ceasefire that is on the table

that has been approved by the United States, as well as Israel.

I want to touch on this first, because Hamas has issued a response to Steve Witkoff's latest proposal with countermeasures. And I'm curious to find out

from your perspective, do you believe that there is a chance that we could see some resolution or some kind of negotiation?

DIANA BUTTU, POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think I have to be honest in saying that there shouldn't need to be a negotiation over this. The standards are

clear. Israel is violating international law. Israel is using food as a weapon of starvation. It's using starvation.

And instead of demanding negotiations, we should be forcing Israel to end this by putting sanctions on Israel. This isn't an issue that's up for

negotiation, and that's what's gotten us into this bind to begin with, is that when we view all of this as being somehow up to negotiation, that

human rights are up to negotiation, then we create a world in which there is chaos, in which human rights abusers are allowed to get away with

literally using food and starvation as a weapon of war.

So, it's time now for the international community to step up and stop just issuing condemnations, but actually do something to end this mass

starvation. And Israel's made it clear that they're going to use starvation as a weapon. They said it from day one.

GIOKOS: We've just heard from President Emmanuel Macron basically saying they're ready to take a tougher stance against Israel if the humanitarian

situation does not improve and the U.N. specifically said that there are drip feeding food into Gaza right now.

When you hear that from a European leader, what sense are you getting in terms of the message that the U.S. and Israel are hearing with regards to

not only the images we're seeing, but also the dire situation in Gaza?

BUTTU: The question becomes whether they're going to back those words with actual deeds. And we've been hearing this for quite some time, but what I -

- what we are really looking for is whether those words are going to be matched by deeds. Again, you know, the Israelis made it clear from day one

that they were going to not allow food in, that they were not going to allow water. They weren't going to allow fuel in, and so on. And this is

what we've seen.

And so, the fact that Israel has been able to get away with this for nearly 20 months shows you that the international system is simply not working. If

the international system is to mean anything, it's supposed to have actions. And this is where its vitally important for the weapons to be cut

off from Israel and for sanctions to be placed on Israel and not let Israel, a state that's made it clear that they want to starve Palestinians

and expel them, not let them continue to do as they want to do.

GIOKOS: I want to talk about the new settlements that have been announced in the West Bank as much as 22, from what we heard, has been met with

condemnation. We're also hearing that Saudi Arabia's foreign minister will be going to the West Bank for solidarity. Saudi has been pushing for the

recognition of a Palestinian state. There was, of course, hope, which seems like it's very distant now in terms of normalization with Saudi Arabia and

Israel.

What message do you believe Saudi Arabia is sending to the United States, as well as Israel, by visiting the West Bank?

BUTTU: Well, I certainly hope that they're sending the message that they stand in full solidarity with Palestinians and with our desire to see an

end to Israel's military occupation and an end and finally, to see Palestinian freedom. I'm very concerned about all of this talk of

normalization.

A country that has made it clear that they want to carry out and has, in fact, carried out war crimes, war crimes that many human rights

organizations have already said is genocide. We should there should not be any normalization with countries that are carrying out genocide. So, I

certainly hope that the message that they're sending, the message that is being received by the United States, is that the world stands in solidarity

with Palestinians, that the world wants to see an end to Israels military occupation, and that the world wants to see Israel to be held to account.

I'm not so sure that the U.S. is going to get that message, because everything that they've been doing so far has been to fund Israel, to

continue to provide weaponry to Israel, and to not really do anything about all of these mechanisms that Israel has put into place to actually starve

Palestinians. They've been complicit in it. So, I certainly hope that the Trump administration steps up and does something.

[15:25:00]

GIOKOS: Well, I mean, in the meantime, and this is a big question in terms of who's actually negotiating right now and where is the sphere of

influence? Is it in Doha? Is it in Gaza? What exactly is going on, given that the architects of October 7th seem now to all have been killed?

Mohammed Sinwar is the last.

What are you reading into who is negotiating right now? Who's looking at this potential ceasefire and the proposal that is on the table?

BUTTU: It remains unclear. And I -- and this is precisely the problem, is that that we shouldn't be in a position where we're in -- we're back and

forth negotiating and so on, because there are 2 million people who are on the verge of starvation. Instead, the United States should be making clear

that these policies are not going to last, that they're not allowed to happen.

And instead, the world should be demanding that Israel end not only this policy of starvation, but that it end its military occupation and end this

war completely. Without that, then the message that Israel continues to receive is that everything that it is doing is okay. This is why you've

heard Netanyahu say that he wants to push Palestinians into the Sinai and elsewhere, unless we have clear international leadership, then

unfortunately, we're going to continue to see an escalation of Israel's war crimes, not an end to it. And those war crimes, by the way, include the

establishment of settlements.

GIOKOS: Yeah. And we're seeing I mean, what's fascinating about that is, you know, whether the United States is really focusing intently on what's

happening in the West Bank and whether that could derail U.S. policy overall.

Diana Buttu, it's great to have you with us. Thank you so much for those insights.

And still to come on CNN, U.S. president Donald Trump calls out China once again. What the president is saying about the trade deal between the two

countries?

We'll be back right after this. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:44]

GIOKOS: President Trump remains hopeful that the White House will prevail in the legal battle over U.S. tariffs alongside Elon Musk, he told

reporters a short time ago. It was a great moment when an appeals court on Thursday paused another court order blocking those tariffs. The U.S.

secretary -- treasury secretary says the White House planned plan should be allowed to move forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The president absolutely has the right to set the trade agenda for the U.S. Anything that the courts do to

get in the way, they both harms the American people in terms of trade and in terms of tariff revenue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: The ongoing legal roller coaster is once again leaving many around the world wondering what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ART HOGAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, B. RILEY FINANCIAL: We've gone from de- escalation on tariffs to where we thought we had a template for trade, looking at the UK deal to where we just don't know where we stand. So, I

think we've elongated the process and that's probably not a great thing. And the market likely will see this as not as negative as the post-

liberation day when the massive, chaotic reciprocal tariffs were announced, but much more of a, you know, we thought we were getting closer to the end

of this game. And it seems like we just extended and went into overtime. And there's multiple more innings to play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Well, President Trump as I mentioned earlier, is accusing China of violating a trade agreement between the two countries. The U.S. president

also saying he will speak to China's President Xi soon on social media.

He said China walked back on an agreement to mutually roll back tariffs and trade restrictions for critical minerals. The Trump administration is

reportedly preparing for additional trade action against China.

Now, China has yet to publicly comment on President Trump's accusation on social media.

Here's CNN's Marc Stewart with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Keep in mind, there is a 12-hour time difference between Washington and where I am in Beijing, China. So, it's

quite possible we may not get any reaction from Chinese government officials until early next week at the earliest. It's possible we may see

some commentary from Chinese state media about President Trump's remarks, claiming China totally violated its agreement with the U.S.

Earlier on Friday. A government spokesperson was asked about some remarks made by Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on Fox News that talks are a bit

stalled, but that official said China has made its position clear in the past and China tends to keep a measured approach to these things. And if

there was a sticking point, it wouldn't necessarily address it immediately. Its position has been consistent. There are no winners in a trade war.

Protectionism is harmful and goes against the will of the people.

There is no question it's a tense time. As Secretary of State Marco Rubio said, the United States will, quote, aggressively revoke visas for Chinese

students. It's a move being met with opposition from China. On Thursday, the government said it lodged a formal protest.

Marc Stewart, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GIOKOS: And still to come, wildfires in Canada already burning through an area more than twice the size of New York City. We're speaking to a local

journalist about what he's seeing.

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:07]

GIOKOS: Well, as we were saying before the break, the Trump administration is considering several actions against China. Earlier this week, Secretary

of State Marco Rubio announced the country will aggressively revoke Chinese student visas. While a federal judge has placed a temporary halt to a

similar order, the White House says the issue is critical to U.S. national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: We are going to stop the practice of allowing China to conduct espionage through the student visa

program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: A Chinese national who just graduated from Harvard addressed her fellow graduates about the situation. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YURONG "LUANNA" JIANG, CHINESE NATIONAL & HARVARD GRADUATE: But today, that promise of a connected world is giving way to division, fear and conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Well, the student you just saw, Yurong "Luanna" Jiang, joins us now live.

Great to have you with us, Luanna.

And I have to say congratulations on your graduation and what a time to be graduating with so much love. What have you got in your hand there? Show

me.

JIANG: That is the globe. That is the symbol of the Harvard Kennedy School. So all of the graduate students will be holding this at their graduation

ceremony. I think it's timely to bring it here.

GIOKOS: Yes. And really important time, because your message was, you know, a connected world is now being disrupted. It's giving way to, you know, I

think what we've been seeing just so much confrontation and I think you really hit that home.

You're a Chinese student. You're an international student at a time where U.S. President Donald Trump wants to revoke student visas for Harvard, even

though a court order yesterday has temporarily blocked that plan. Give me a sense of how you felt yesterday graduating in this tumultuous time.

JIANG: So that was certainly a very interesting time. And in terms of how I feel, and I think a lot of international students will resonate with me,

which is paradoxically, we felt more supportive than ever, especially on this campus. Sometimes, it's really under external pressure that you really

see the strength of solidarity with the people around you.

Yeah, it was a great day. It was a difficult time, but I'm very glad that we are holding hands with each other.

GIOKOS: Yeah. I mean, Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, is saying that they're looking at revoking visas for Chinese students. What is your

response to that, given that, Chinese students in the United States were top of the rank biggest number in the U.S. until last year, around 270,000

Chinese students were registered in the year 2023 to 2024.

We're talking about people that are very much entrenched in the higher education institutional framework.

JIANG: Right. It is my deepest belief that education and universities are for humanity. I understand that knowledge is a national resources, but it

is also a shared human pursuit. And many of us international students, including the Chinese students, came to the United States with a deep

commitment to serve the world.

For example, two of my other classmates, Chinese, they had planned to spend their summer in Kenya and Rwanda. One of them will be working on public

health. The other one will be working on economic development. But now with a lot of movement in the policies, they are facing a very difficult

decision. If they were to leave the U.S., then there's a real risk that they wont be able to return or they can do remote work.

But, you know, in the field of development scheduling, a one hour Zoom call with a village chief is just not the same as paying them a visit in their

house, hearing all their story as a dining table.

So, development work really requires proximity and trust. You just can't build the trust through a screen. I think universities should be for

humanity.

GIOKOS: Yeah. Do you feel that the trust has been eroded with this administration for international students? And you're obviously watching

very closely the trade confrontations and specifically the rhetoric between China and the United States. What are you -- what are you thinking and

feeling right now?

JIANG: I mean, it is also my deepest belief that China and the U.S. are the top two most powerful countries on Earth. And we have faced a lot of

problems as human beings, and a lot of the problems cannot be solved without these two countries. Joint force with each other. And also, just

seeing my fellow Chinese students who wanted to do good and serve the world, being entangled in politics, that they didn't opt in for.

It was pretty heartbreaking. It was very hard to see that.

GIOKOS: Luanna -- absolutely. Before I let you go, you wrote an incredible piece. Theres a bit of information on you on the Harvard website where you

say you were looking at your friend who was a fishmonger's daughter, and how she wasn't able to escape that reality. But you were.

Could you give me in a few words, just insights into the importance of international students, specifically finding opportunities in the United

States?

JIANG: Oh, well, that piece. I think -- well, because back then, my fellow classmates, she is the daughter of a fishmonger. And she realized that

education was her only way to change her life. And I think there's a lot of international students coming into the U.S. because they wanted to learn to

better themselves and potentially find opportunities here or abroad or go back and serve their countries.

I think education is the most critical piece of anyone's growth and character development.

GIOKOS: Right. Luanna Jiang, thank you so much for your insights. Thank you for your time. Congratulations on your graduation once again.

JIANG: Thank you very much.

GIOKOS: A big win for Donald Trump -- pleasure. A big win for Donald Trump in the U.S. Supreme Court today. The court ruled the president can revoke

temporary protections that have allowed more than 500,000 migrants from Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti and Nicaragua to remain in the U.S. and they'd been

granted an immigration parole by former President Joe Biden for urgent humanitarian reasons.

Now, the Trump administration is free to begin deporting them rapidly.

I want to bring in CNN's Paula Reid. She's got more information on this. The Supreme Court ruling that the administration could lift these

protections, but it isn't a final decision.

So, take us through what this ultimately means in terms of implementation.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This holds for now. And it's significant because it will allow the Trump

administration to begin to expand the number of people that they are able to remove. Again, they have to be from these specific countries.

And this is notable because we know this is a priority for the Trump administration. And right now, the Supreme Court was looking at a Biden era

program that granted parole, not the traditional sense of parole, but parole, meaning that they can live and work here for a specified term if

they came from these countries.

[15:45:07]

Now, there was no question that Department of Homeland Security secretary could rescind this program. Trump signed something on day one saying he

wanted to end this program. The question, though, is whether they could do this, this revision for the entire group or if they had to go case by case

because each individual has a different circumstance. Some of these people could argue that if you send them back to their home country, they could

face persecution or other hardship.

But here, the Supreme Court allowing the administration to go forward, rescind these protections and proceed with these removals. Now, the

underlying case that got before the Supreme Court with this question, that still has to work its way through the courts and be litigated. But this is

the second time this month that the Supreme Court has sided with the Trump administration in his efforts to revoke temporary protections for certain

groups of migrants.

The last time they agreed to remove those protections for hundreds of thousands of individuals from Venezuela so they can proceed with these

removals, though these larger policy questions will continue to work their way through the courts.

GIOKOS: All right, Paula Reid, thank you so much.

Moving on, and Taylor Swift is now the sole owner of her entire catalog of music. She bought back master recordings of her first six albums with no

strings attached, posting this on her website. All of the music I've ever made now belongs to me. That includes music videos, concert films, album

art and photos, as well as unreleased songs. The Grammy winner says she was able to buy the music from Shamrock Capital after the success of her Eras

Tour. Her former record label had sold the master recordings about six years ago.

All right. We're going to a short break. I'll be back right after this. Stick with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GIOKOS: States of emergency have been declared in parts of central and western Canada as wildfires, they are continuing to intensify. The massive

fires have forced large scale evacuations, including about 17,000 people from the province of Manitoba. Officials say it's the largest evacuation

the region has seen in recent memory. The smoke has begun traveling across the border to the United States, Midwest and is already affecting air

quality in some places.

We've got Eric Westhaver, a reporter working in Manitoba, for us with an update.

[15:50:00]

We're seeing these images. They are dramatic and absolutely scary.

Eric, give us an update on the current status of these fires and whether they're active.

ERIC WESTHAVER, REPORTER, THE REMINDER: They are active. They are very active. A lot of these fires have been spurred on by dry conditions. There

hasn't been rain in parts of northern Manitoba and northern Saskatchewan for quite some time, weeks in some places, the bush and the brush that is

around the area is incredibly dry.

And right now, a lot of the fuel that would be needed to grow a forest fire, it's readily available. It's been frightening moment to see as

somebody who's from the north and somebody who's lived in the north my whole life, areas that are affected by this, it's frightening to see.

And we can just hope that the weather cooperates, that the wind blows it away from inhabited areas, away from infrastructure, away from homes, and

that everybody can get back as safely as they can as soon as possible.

GIOKOS: And 17,000 people have now been evacuated. I want you to give me a sense of what is going on in terms of trying to contain the fire. Is there

air assistance in terms of dropping water? What kind of resources and capacity has been have been deployed?

WESTHAVER: It has been sort of a mixed bag on that. Normally the book on tackling a fire like this is to attack it as much as possible from the air,

usually using helicopters and air tankers or in local parlance, water bombers. Those water bombers have been unable to fly at portions of this

struggle because the smoke has been too thick for the pilots to get through and to drop payload.

Helicopters have still been flying. They were flying around the Flin Flon area before the evacuation order was dropped on Wednesday, and they're

still around now? Provincial fire crews from Manitoba and Saskatchewan, both because this fire started right on the border between the two

provinces. The one that I'm most watching because it's close to my home.

They're working on that. It's my indication that, firefighters from other provinces will be coming in to help some of the blazes that have grown to

large proportions in different areas. I also know that local fire departments in smaller communities throughout Manitoba and Saskatchewan

specifically, have gone up north to try to help the fire.

I was saying earlier when evacuees, people like me were heading out down the road to the south, there were people police, paramedics, whoever they

may be coming north the other way with sirens on. And that was -- in a pretty dire moment, that was encouraging to see.

GIOKOS: So you were also evacuated, Eric?

WESTHAVER: Yes, yes.

GIOKOS: Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we've been covering wildfires and they're getting more aggressive. I personally have covered wildfires for

the last few years in Greece, and it is absolutely petrifying the air quality. Theres so many things. And I want to ask you this question in

terms of the severity that you and people in Canada have been experiencing over the past few years, and whether this fear that this is just going to

get worse.

WESTHAVER: It may. I wish I had a crystal ball and I could read and predict the future. It would make my job a lot easier. It probably make your job a

lot easier. And the fire crews around as well. But, you know, I do know in recent years that the forest fire situation in northern Manitoba and

Saskatchewan as a whole has been volatile.

Fires do not typically start with this sort of intensity this early in the season. It's worth noting, we have three more months of summer left. It's

not even June yet, and we've already -- we're talking about evacuations in different communities, Flin Flon, Creighton, Denare Beach, Sheridan,

Pelican Narrows, Pimicikimak, Ottawa, all sorts of places. I'm sure I'm missing a few. Lynn Lake, a lot of communities right now where people would

rather be going about their lives, and now they've had to take drastic measures.

I'm lucky I'm staying with family members. They've taken great care of me and my family and a lot of other people from the region have had that same

luck. Other people have had to go into shelters, and there have been some hiccups along the way of how to receive, aid, compensation money or

something like that. It's been tricky and it's not easy to move that many people out at one time. It's, I think, gone about as smoothly as possible,

and I can just hope that things will go well in the future.

GIOKOS: Well, Eric, I wish you all the best and good luck, and we're hoping and praying that that those fires, multiple fires and multiple fronts and

soon -- Eric Weshaver.

All right. Suburban neighborhood in cape town, South Africa -- we're shifting now onto another story -- got an unexpected visitor this week.

[15:55:04]

I want you to take a look at this very cute elephant seal. The massive one- ton seal made his way into town more than half a mile away from the coast. Nicknamed Gordie by the locals, he took his time to see the sights,

relaxing there on a police car, posing for photos -- posing for photos, as well as stopping traffic. After nine hours of crawling, the portly and

rather charming creature, Gordie was safely returned to the sea. And there he goes, back in the ocean.

And finally, tonight we would like to introduce you to Pepper, Batman, Chanel and their friends. They are the stars of Kyiv's Piglet Cafe. It is a

new therapy space where Ukrainians are coming to escape from Russia's war and to spend some time relaxing with Kyiv's cheekiest residents. These

little ones are less than two months old and have already put a smile on the faces of dozens of visitors, and I hope they put a smile on your face.

I'm Eleni Giokos. This is WHAT WE KNOW. Stay with me. I'll be back with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" right after this.

END

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