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What We Know with Max Foster

U.S. Pulls Negotiating Team From Ceasefire Talks; Border Clashes Intensify Between Cambodia & Thailand; Sources: Trump Was Told His Name Appears In Epstein Files; Soon: Trump Tours Federal Reserve's Renovation Project; Wrestling Legend Hulk Hogan Dead At Age 71. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 24, 2025 - 15:00   ET

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[15:00:24]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas appear to collapse as aid organizations accuse Israel of

causing widespread starvation.

I'm Christina Macfarlane, in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Amid the widespread humanitarian suffering in Gaza, a potentially major blow to the hopes for a ceasefire. The U.S. has decided to recall its

negotiating team from Doha. In an online post a short time ago, U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff blamed Hamas, writing the groups response to

the latest proposal clearly shows a lack of desire to reach a ceasefire deal. He says U.S. officials will consider alternative options to bring the

hostages home.

So with that news, let's get straight out to our Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv.

And, Jeremy, this was not the news anyone was wanting to hear. Do we know why these talks appear to have fallen apart? And what Witkoff was meaning

there by those alternative options he was mentioning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that this is certainly a significant moment and a fork in the road here for these

negotiations. I wouldn't go quite as far as saying that these talks appear to have collapsed quite yet. And that's for the simple reason that we know

that at these critical moments, there are bold moves that can be taken to try and get things back on track or to abandon them altogether.

And so, the question now is whether this tweet by Steve Witkoff, this decision to bring back the American delegation that has been in Doha,

Qatar, at the same time as the Israelis are bringing back their delegation, whether this is a pressure tactic to get Hamas to agree to the remaining

differences here and to reach a deal or -- and we should note whether this is also a decision by the United States to say, look, if the -- if a deal

can't be reached quickly, then we will indeed follow through with that pressure and look for other ways, as Witkoff says, to bring about the end

of the war in Gaza and to bring the hostages back home.

What's interesting about this as well is that earlier in the day, when the Israeli prime minister's office announced that they were bringing back

their team from Doha back to Israel for consultations, I spoke with an Israeli source familiar with the talks who said that this was not an

indication of a crisis in the negotiations, but rather that there were issues that needed to be discussed in person and that couldn't -- decisions

that needed to be made, that couldn't be made with that team in Doha, and that they needed to be here in Israel in person.

So, I think it's very clear that we are at a very significant inflection point here. But I think it's possible that this could go one of two ways.

Yes. This could be spelling the collapse of this negotiating process altogether, but it could also be a moment where some kind of progress is

unlocked here. A lot of that will depend on Hamas's response to this decision. By Steve Witkoff to bring back his team from Doha.

And, of course, on the substance of these negotiations, which, again, the United States saying that they are not abandoning altogether at this stage.

MACFARLANE: All right. Jeremy Diamond from Tel Aviv. Thank you.

Let's get straight into this with Danny Danon. He is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, who is joining me now.

Thank you so much for your time. Just to reflect on what our correspondent Jeremy was just saying there about that statement from special envoy Steve

Witkoff, is this -- is it Israel's belief as well that Hamas are not serious about a ceasefire? And does -- is what we're seeing here, does this

spell the collapse of current ceasefire talks, or is this a moment of progress? How are Israel seeing this?

DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: No, it's definitely not a progress, Christina. We have a proposal on the table, a very detailed one.

We agreed to that proposal. It's not perfect. We made compromises and Hamas already said no a few times, and they came with new demands. And whenever

we agree to the new terms, they come with more, more demands.

So I think they don't want to have a ceasefire now. Unfortunately, we see at the same time that there is a campaign about starvation in Gaza. A very

successful campaign. A lot of lies are spread all around the world.

And I think maybe Hamas today believe that they should continue with this campaign without actually moving forward for a ceasefire. But that will be

a mistake, because this war will not end as long as our hostages are in Gaza.

[15:05:06]

And we could have been now in a ceasefire where aid would have come into Gaza and where hostages would come out of Gaza. But unfortunately, Hamas is

continuing with the games, and it's not us saying it. It's the negotiators who are involved in the negotiations.

MACFARLANE: We'll come on to those allegations of starvation, those lies, as you call them in just a moment. But I just wanted to ask, what are those

alternative options that Steve Witkoff is talking about? Are you aware of those?

DANON: Well, I can tell you about our options. You know, we will apply more pressure against Hamas. You know, if they don't understand that, you know,

we are willing to compromise, but we are not willing to compromise our hostages. So, we have the means, we have the tools, and we will apply more

pressure against Hamas, and it will be more painful. We proved it in the last 20 months.

So that will be the option we have. I cannot speak on behalf of the U.S., but I'm sure that they are frustrated as well because they are into this

process for the last few months and unfortunately, whenever we think we have an agreement, Hamas comes with new demands.

MACFARLANE: Let's move on because as we are hearing now on a daily, hourly basis, Gaza is continuing in the grip of a spiraling starvation across the

nation. There is a logjam of aid at the border crossing between Gaza and Israel, and the U.N. and Israel are at odds over who is responsible.

Before we discuss this, I just want to play a clip from Nic Robertson, CNN's Nic Robertson, who filed this report from Kerem Shalom earlier. And I

want to -- just for you to take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: These are aid trucks. We were just watching them being processed down the road. And I can see on

the cardboard boxes, they have that logo, logo, GHF, that's the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, the Israeli-U.S.-backed foundation that has these

aid facilities set up, aid distribution points set up inside of Gaza. And these are points that have come under a huge amount of criticism for the

number of Palestinian deaths. Palestinian medical officials say over 1,000 people have been killed as they've tried to get aid from these distribution

points.

But what we're witnessing here right now is a movement. It appears, of more of those aid, that aid that is -- that is passed out by the Gaza

Humanitarian Foundation.

But what the U.N. is telling us, and I've asked John to step this way with me a little bit. Actually, there's a couple more trucks coming through

here. Get a better look at them when you see them here, they all -- they all they -- you see GHF on the packaging.

All these trucks here have a number on them. This one's numbered 14. I can see another one coming up behind it. Number 23. The aid that's been going

in here, according to international officials, according to the U.N., according to European leaders, is absolutely insufficient. This handful of

trucks, we have seen a drop in the bucket, according to what medical officials inside Gaza are saying, it's required.

One of the heads, the directors of one of the main hospitals inside of Gaza, today said what Gaza needs right now is 1,500 trucks like these every

day for a month to alleviate the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Ambassador, I want to put to you what Nic has just said there. And that report was filed earlier today, that aid that is desperately

needed is sitting just across the border. All four crossings. We heard Nic say there that aid organizations are saying the aid going in is

insufficient, that it's just a drop in the ocean of what's needed.

But the U.N. are saying that Israel are preventing them from reaching it due to a complicated approvals process that you have and a lack of will on

your part for that aid to get in. What is your response?

DANON: I would advise the U.N. to stop distributing lies and to start distributing aid. You know, as we speak, we there are 1,000 trucks that

were unloaded inside Gaza waiting for the U.N. to pick it up and distribute it. And it's not being done.

So, the U.N. is busy spreading lies against Israel instead of distributing the aid. And I want to remind you, you have two mechanisms for the aid to

go into Gaza. One is the GHF, the fund that distributes hundreds of thousands of meals every day in Gaza. And you have the trucks, both

mechanisms are open, are active now.

But the U.N., I think they want to blame Israel for those claims -- false claims of starvation.

[15:10:01]

It is not accurate. If they would just take the aid that is now waiting in the checkpoint --

MACFARLANE: They say --

DANON: -- they can ease the situation.

MACFARLANE: So are you saying then that there is no bureaucracy on your end tying up the aid, getting in, that you are not putting obstacles in the way

that you do have the will to see this aid go into Gaza, because let's remember, you are the occupying force in Gaza. You have control of 70

percent of the strip. It is in your gift to enable and ensure that this aid will get through, not just is it on the un.

DANON: So I want to remind you that we are conducting this war for 20 months, and we are not fighting the people in Gaza. We are fighting Hamas,

the terrorist organization.

Hamas is doing everything in its power to block the aid, to rob the aid. And they are threatening the drivers. They are actually kidnapping drivers.

But our goal is to ease the situation in Gaza.

But unfortunately, Hamas and the U.N. today are in the same place. They are fighting against the fund instead of actually collaborating and supporting

the work of the GHF with the un officials working against the fund. But for our interest is to support the humanitarian efforts, and Hamas is doing

exactly the opposite.

MACFARLANE: It is in your interest to support the efforts, but it is also your obligation under international law as the occupying force, to ensure

that that population is not going hungry, that they are not starving and that hunger is not being used as a weapon of war. If it is the case that

Hamas are responsible, why then are you not providing more military assistance to enable these trucks to reach their destination? Because

again, surely that is within your power.

DANON: So, you know, it's not so simple. There are areas in Gaza that we have full control, and in those areas, we have no issues. You know, we know

that the trucks can go anywhere. The drivers collaborate with the U.N. and other agencies.

But there are some areas that Hamas is still active there. And unfortunately, it's harder for the humanitarian organization to work over

there.

And, you know, you spoke about other options. You know, we will have to look at other options. I'm sure it will impact also the population in Gaza.

But today, Hamas is trying to use and kidnap the population in Gaza and to spread those lies about the starvation.

You know, when you look at the amount of aid and you showed, you know, dozens of trucks, but I'm talking about hundreds of trucks that enter Gaza

every day. You don't have lack of food.

You have logistical problems. You have terror of Hamas. Those are the issues, not the lack of aid that come into Gaza.

MACFARLANE: On the number of trucks entering the strip, Amnesty International say that between 500 to 600 truckloads of aid entered Gaza

daily before the conflict, and that number has now dropped to around 28 trucks a day.

We heard our correspondent Nic Robertson saying there that what is seen going crossing your borders is a drop in the ocean.

I just want to talk to you about the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, because if were talking as you were just then, about looking at alternative

options, it is quite clear, is it not, after 1,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, that the model of aid distribution by the GHF is

not working. Are you looking to other means to other ways to try and alternate how this age is now being is going to be distributed in future?

DANON: Well, first, Christina, I beg to differ about the numbers you mentioned. You know, Hamas spreading numbers and everybody is buying it.

You know, even the U.N. organization, you know, they say tens of thousands of people were killed. And after a day, they said it was a mistake.

So I don't know from where you got those numbers, but I think it's coming from Hamas. You know, the GHF is doing a very important work. They

distribute hundreds of thousands of meals. Unfortunately, they were incidents that Hamas operatives tried to block people from getting into

those centers or even attack them. And they were like crossfire on those areas.

But in general, I think people should thank the GHF and collaborate with them. And I would expect the U.N. to work with any organization that wants

to actually ease the situation in Gaza today and not to work against it.

MACFARLANE: The U.N. say they were ready to work with any organization if the security levels are there. But clearly on the evidence of the number of

Palestinians being shot at these aid distribution points, that is not the case. So how can they be expected to collaborate?

DANON: From the beginning, the U.N. said they will not collaborate with this fund. Even before it started to operate. And they are threatening

people not to support the work of the GHF.

[15:15:02]

And actually, you know, they do the same thing as Hamas in different methods. So, I think its about time that all those who care about the

humanitarian situation in Gaza will work together and find a way to leave ego aside. You know, there is no monopoly for the U.N., for humanitarian

aid in Gaza. And I think the fund is doing an important work.

Yes, you can improve it. I'm sure you can improve it. But I don't think it's against the people of Gaza. It actually supporting them and allowing

them to receive the aid without the Hamas taking control of it and selling it to the people.

MACFARLANE: Yes. I mean, the numbers may be in dispute, as you say, as to what's been happening at GHF distribution points. But the images we're

seeing are coming from Gaza are not. And we have been reporting on that all week here at CNN.

I want to ask that -- your opinion on this. International pressure is clearly mounting on you, on Israel. This week, 28 countries condemned the -

- what they called the drip feeding of aid and the use of GHF. And a government poll just released -- a YouGov poll just released last month,

said that a few Western European countries see your actions in Gaza as no longer proportionate or justified.

How much of a concern is all of this to Israel, this international pressure and opinion?

DANON: Well, yesterday, you know, I spoke at the Security Council and I told my colleagues, what do you expect us to do? We agree to the ceasefire.

We said yes for the ceasefire that would have changed the situation on the ground.

Hamas said no, rejected all offers and we cannot move on. We cannot move on when the hostages are in the tunnels for almost two years.

So yes, we understand the concerns. We know we listen to that. And if we can improve what we are doing, we will improve what we are doing.

But at the same time, we will not change our commitment to our people, to bring them back home. We're talking about 50 civilians that some of them we

know are not in a good shape, mental issues, health issues, being in a tunnel for almost two years, we will not be -- we will not leave them

behind.

MACFARLANE: Ambassador, it is a desperate situation right now for all of those in Palestine and in Gaza, and we very much hope that a ceasefire

agreement will be able to move forward. And we hope you will come back and speak to us once again --

(CROSSTALK)

DANON: Very quickly, the pressure should not be on us. The pressure should be on Hamas. They are the ones who reject the ceasefire.

MACFARLANE: That is your opinion, and we appreciate it. Danny Danon, thank you.

DANON: Thank you very much.

MACFARLANE: Now, border tensions between Thailand and Cambodia are now boiling over. At least 12 people have been killed in clashes between

civilians and Cambodian troops.

Both countries have recalled their ambassadors and are urging citizens near the border to return home. Japan is urging them to de-escalate, with

Thailand launching airstrikes against Cambodian military targets. The two countries share a land border that's a little more than 800 meters, or 500

meters long. Some areas have been disputed for years.

Will Ripley explains how all of this started.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rocket slams into a 7/11 near a gas station in Thailand's Sisaket Province. The

Thai military says it was fired from Cambodia, just miles away. Local officials say the number of dead is expected to rise.

In Thailand nearby Surin Province, gunfire, families, children scrambled. An eight-year-old boy killed the Thai military says.

This is the deadliest day of fighting between Thailand and Cambodia in more than a decade. A border skirmish now spiraling into a larger regional

crisis, fighting up and down the border between the two countries. Thailand's military accuses Cambodia of deploying heavy weapons into

civilian areas, rocket launchers, artillery hitting villages, homes and public buildings.

In response, Thailand sealed off all 508 miles of its border with Cambodia, raising fears of prolonged conflict.

Diplomatic ties are unraveling. Ambassadors recalled. Cambodia calling for an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting accusing Thailand's far larger

and better equipped army of brutal, barbaric aggression.

Thai F-16 bombed Cambodian military outposts. Cambodia responding by attacking a Thai Army base.

Thailand insists it's acting in self-defense. They say a Thai soldier was wounded in a land mine explosion. Cambodia claims it's only responding to

Thai provocations.

Thailand's military is more than triple the size of Cambodia's, its air force among the most advanced in Southeast Asia. Cambodia has no fighter

jets at all.

Complicating matters political turmoil in Thailand. Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra suspended last month for a leaked phone call with

Cambodia's ex-leader Hun Sen, a longtime ally of her father, the former prime minister.

[15:20:06]

In the call she called the Cambodian strongman uncle, and even appeared to criticize her own country's powerful military that triggered anti-

government protests and accusations of undermining national sovereignty.

On the streets of Bangkok many don't want war. They also say Thailand needs to show strength.

"I want it to end, but if we don't retaliate, they'll think we're weak," he says.

Hospitals are evacuating, civilians are dying. Thailand accuses Cambodia of planting fresh mines at the border in a place were stepping off the trail

can cost you a limb or your life.

Cambodia denies adding to the millions of mines that already blight the region.

This latest clash began near a sacred temple, one of many sites along a colonial era border drawn by France, which both countries have laid claim

to for more than a century, and with no ceasefire in sight, you have two nations armed and angry on a collision course that's getting harder to

reverse.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Coming up, a new day in Donald Trump's Epstein nightmare. Details ahead on the meeting between the U.S. deputy attorney general and

Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche is meeting with Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice today. Ghislaine Maxwell is serving a 20-year prison

sentence after being convicted of sex trafficking. Today's meeting in Florida comes just one day after a judge declined to release grand jury

documents from the criminal probe into Epstein. Amid the uproar, sources now tell CNN that U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi told the president back

in May that his name is in the Epstein files.

[15:25:00]

Theres no indication Trump is implicated in any illegal activity.

Alayna Treene is joining us now live from the White House.

So, Alayna, let's just deal with this meeting which do we know if it's even happened yet? And what the deputy AG is hoping to get from it?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, it's unclear the exact timing. We know it is for today. We know that Blanche is already there in

Tallahassee.

But, Christina, they're being very quiet. Really keeping some of these finer details of this meeting under wraps. And it's unclear if we're even

going to hear anything once it does conclude with the Justice Department not very much signaling that they want to do that at that stage.

But look, as for what they're trying to get, we have to see, I mean, what we heard from the Justice Department and when they were announcing this,

this statement from Blanche earlier in the week, it said that if Ghislaine Maxwell has information about anyone who has committed crimes against

victims, that the FBI and the Justice Department want to hear what she has to say.

And so, really, I think what they're trying to do here is to see if she can give any more insight into any potential accomplices, any names that

perhaps they don't already know of in the files that they had reviewed of this Epstein case that could give them a fuller picture and more context

around this. But I have to be clear here. One is, in my conversations with a lot of our very smart legal experts and other Justice Department

reporters, they say that it's unlikely she's going to have really compelling information that they don't already have in all of the materials

they have gathered on this so far, and that this current Trump Justice Department has already been reviewing.

But then also, I think you can't overstate how rare this is. It honestly, very rarely, if ever, has happened that you have a deputy attorney general

flying to a place like Florida to meet with a convicted felon, particularly for a case as big as this one involving Ghislaine Maxwell, who was so

closely tied to Jeffrey Epstein and of course, involved some of the real, the heinous sex crimes that he was convicted for as well.

And so, this is highly unusual. And I think another point that's worth noting as well is, of course, the politics around this. I mean, part of the

reason many people think that this was even organized in the first place is because there's been so much scrutiny of this administration's handling,

but specifically, the Justice Department's handling of this case.

Overall, a lot of people calling for more transparency, feeling very dissatisfied in that memo they had released earlier this month, saying that

they were closing this investigation and that there was no so-called client list. And so, you know, we have to see what this could yield. But not many

people expecting we're going to learn a lot from that meeting, Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And this coming, of course, just amidst the revelation that Pam Bondi actually divulged to Donald Trump that his name was in those

Epstein files.

Now, this has obviously been knocked back by the White House. Another fake news story by "The Wall Street Journal". But how significant is this?

TREENE: Yeah. And also, just to get to your point, they actually aren't disputing because I spoke at length with many people here at the White

House about this yesterday. They said they're not disputing that the presidents name is in the files. They actually are arguing that they knew

that they would be in the files. They were in some of the materials that the justice department had released earlier this year.

What they're disputing, when you hear from the White House communications director, Steven Cheung, saying that this is fake news, they're trying to

argue and push back against the sense that perhaps he is tied at all to some of nefarious conduct, you know, done by Jeffrey Epstein, that there

was any wrongdoing on behalf of the president. Of course, there is no evidence to suggest that. And no one was really reported that or stated

that.

I think the big thing here, of course, is that when Bondi, the attorney general, briefed President Donald Trump on this in May, she told him, you

know, look, part of the -- part of what is in these documents that we have reviewed is your names. Your name comes up multiple times, as does I should

note the names of several other high-profile figures. The justice department believes. I was told that a lot of this is unsubstantiated. A

lot of what they found, you know, is incredible in these documents.

That's part of why they don't want to release this. But the bigger issue as well, and I think the reason this has caused so much consternation is

because the president was asked just last week about whether Bondi had told him that his name was in these documents, and he said no. And that's just

adding to this bigger sense of, you know, tension and this belief by many people, including many of the president's supporters, that they're not

being totally honest here and being disingenuous in some of their messaging on the case.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And that, of course, is what is continuing to stir this up.

Alayna Treene from the White House, we appreciate it. Thank you.

All right. Still to come, the world is remembering a wrestling legend, Hulk Hogan, who died earlier today. We'll look at his legacy inside and outside

the ring.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:19]

MACFARLANE: In the next hour, President Trump is expected to tour the Federal Reserve Building in Washington. This rare visit comes as Trump

continues to blast Federal Chair Jerome Powell over the Fed's decision to keep interest rates steady.

Last week, Trump said a $2.5 billion renovation of the Federal Reserve Building's could be a fireable offense. In the days since, the president

said he has no plans to fire Powell.

So, what we want to know is what will Donald Trump be looking for at the federal reserve?

Joining me to answer that is Richard Quest.

Richard, is this all about the refurb?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: No. Yes. Sort of.

And, look, Donald Trump, first of all, let's put it into perspective. This is only the third time that a president has made the four-block visit from

the White House to the Fed. It's not very far, but the symbolism of the president going to an institution that's supposed to be independent, is

independent, is enormous.

So, FDR did it. Gerald Ford did it. President Bush did it. But they all did it on major events. The opening of the building or the signing and swearing

in of a new Fed chief.

This is going to examine this $2 billion renovation, which the president and his cohorts and the administration says is full of fraud,

mismanagement, overspending. And so, you have to see it in that context.

This is a highly irregular, unusual visit by a president who spent the last X number of months, six months berating the chairman of the Fed and trying

to get him out.

[15:35:05]

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And it also comes, what, just less than a week ahead of the Federal Reserve deciding on the new interest rate. I believe, in what,

less than a week's time? Got anything to do with that, too?

QUEST: Well, the FOMC is due to meet. They've made it clear they're not going to cut rates. Remember when it comes to cutting rates you have to

telegraph to the market what you're going to do. You don't want to take them by surprise. And the telegraphing is no rate change at the next

meeting. Maybe later in the year.

But the rates are about 4.5 percent. But the president wants them down at 1 percent. And that's the sort of number you'd have if we're in economic

crisis and we're simply not there.

And the U.S. economy is performing extremely well. There is good growth. There is low unemployment, and inflation is coming down. We do not know the

effect of his tariff -- of president's tariffs. And that's the unknown.

So, if you ask why is he going to the Fed? The answer is no one really knows other than to be seen to be putting pressure on Powell in some weird

way to try and force him out, which he can't really do.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And as we've been saying, this coming in a week where President Trump is doing everything, it seems to distract from the Jeffrey

Epstein saga as well.

QUEST: And the problem there is he distracts from the Epstein, but he turns the attention into something quite dangerous economically, which is the

independence of the Fed. Because as economist after economist after economist, Jamie Dimon himself of JPMorgan Chase, has said, if the

independence of the Fed becomes questioned, then all bets are off in terms of market and economics.

MACFARLANE: True statement. Richard, thank you.

QUEST: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: Still to come, more on the desperate situation in Gaza. I'll speak to the former Scottish first minister and his wife, who accused

Israel of starving their family members there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:02]

MACFARLANE: Among the people campaigning for some kind of humanitarian relief in Gaza is a former first minister of Scotland, Humza Yousaf, and

his wife Nadia El-Nakla.

Her family members are currently in Gaza, including a seven-month-old baby suffering what they say is deliberate starvation. They recently shared this

video urging for Gaza's borders to open.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NADIA EL-NAKLA, COUNCILOR, CITY OF DUNDEE: Can you imagine not being able to feed your children, yet, knowing the food you so desperately need is

only a few miles away?

HUMZA YOUSAF, FORMER FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND: Fathers like me, parents like us, children like ours, being starved, displaced, bombed all while the

world watches.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, joining us now is Humza Yousaf and the former first, the former first minister of Scotland and Nadia El-Nakla, the councilor for the

city of Dundee.

Thank you both so much for joining us this evening and what I'm sure is a very difficult time for you.

We just played a clip there of the Instagram post that you put out yesterday. Nadia, you were saying your cousin, her husband, her four

children are in Gaza right now. Can you tell us -- when was the last time you spoke to them and what is the situation they're facing right now?

EL-NAKLA: After we posted the video, my cousin Sally actually got in touch to say that she was just so grateful that we were raising our voices and

that everything we said was exactly the situation that she's in. It's completely desperate. She feels like they're on the precipice of death, and

it's really hard to communicate with her. She just sends us voice notes to let us know how she is.

MACFARLANE: Are they able to get access to any sort of aid? Have they been able to get access to any sort of food? Where are they living?

EL-NAKLA: They're in al-Mawasi, they used to be in Khan Younis, but they've been displaced many, many, many times. They stayed in Deir al-Balah for a

while, had to move again.

So, they're consistently moving to safe places. Although we know nowhere is safe. So they're in a tent and they. She said a few days ago that they had

a small loaf of bread that she was trying not to eat herself so she could keep it for the kids. She also said that when advised her by her sister to

forage for some leaves and grass, that she couldn't even find that to eat.

MACFARLANE: And the seven-month-old baby, does -- does that baby have any access to formula? What is that baby, you know, eating at this moment?

EL-NAKLA: I actually haven't -- I haven't reached out to that family member because it's so difficult to reach out and ask how they are when we know

that they're in such a dire situation. So it's -- I know they've got tins of beans, that's as far as I know that that that family member has.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And I know it's difficult for you to go through the details of this, but we've been reporting extensively on CNN about the

experiences of Palestinians being shot at aid distribution points.

Have your family had any experience of trying to fetch aid at the GHF distribution points?

EL-NAKLA: I know my husband, Sally's husband has been going out every day to try and find food and even that is extremely dangerous. Many days he's

not found anything. He hasn't went to that point as far as I'm aware, but to be honest, because the amount of people there, you have 2 million

people. And already what was before this happened, the most condensed, you know, dense population on earth. It's not easy to move around in the

blistering heat when you've not got any food.

So, it's all I know is that she can't access food and that they're extremely hungry and, you know, I don't question her on how she is -- what

she -- what she's doing to try and get --

MACFARLANE: Yeah, understandable.

EL-NAKLA: -- her that she can't carry.

MACFARLANE: Understandable.

Humza, as a politician, as the former first minister of Scotland, how incapacitating does it feel to you in this moment to be able to do nothing

to help?

YOUSAF: Well, I think first and foremost, I think about it as a human being, as a father of children, myself, with three beautiful girls. How on

earth can we stand by as fellow human beings, let alone what other, whatever other platform we have? In my case, a former first minister, but

it's not just actually my own position. I think about all of the world leaders. I'm a former head of government, so I've been in that position.

I understand geopolitics and I understand it well, but I do question how world leaders who are currently in position right across the world from

Western leaders such as in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom and Europe, right the way through to the Arab and Muslim world as well, and the

Gulf and Turkey and Pakistan and South Asia, all those world leaders must be incensed, must be at least tortured inside by the images of emaciated

children, starving mothers and fathers.

[15:45:07]

How can they not work together to at least allow aid to flow in? Forget the geopolitics for a second. And I know that's hard given the situation we're

dealing with. But surely, we must all be able to agree that starving children must be allowed to have access to food.

MACFARLANE: I think that is a sentiment that so many people are feeling at the moment, and struggling to understand the intransigence of governments,

the lack of urgency. And I want to mention only in the last hour, Humza, have we seen a statement from the UK Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, saying

hell be holding an emergency call with E3 partners to discuss what they can do to stop the killing and the starvation.

Why has it taken this long? And were not really even yet seeing any meaningful action?

YOUSAF: You're absolutely right. Words are not going to feed the children of Gaza. Statements aren't going to put food on the table. And all these

words of condemnation are meaningless.

What we've got to see is action. And if I took the U.K. government, we're speaking to you from Scotland within the U.K. But I thought about the U.K.

government. The very least they could do is stop selling arms to Israel.

And may I remind your viewers, of course, that Israel is headed by a man that is wanted by the International Criminal Court and begin to bring

forward meaningful economic and trade sanctions so that Israel feels the pressure and quite frankly, the same way that apartheid South Africa felt

the pressure when sanctions were brought against it and it changed course. So, until we see meaningful action, I'm afraid we'll continue to see Israel

act with impunity.

EL-NAKLA: Palestinians don't have time, where literally they have a few days before what we could see is just mass deaths from starvation. The time

is not on their side. So, yes, conversations, emergency conversations are needed, but action, emergency action now, not tomorrow or the next day is

needed more than ever.

MACFARLANE: And, Nadia, we really hope and pray that your family will survive this and we appreciate you both coming on and raising your voices

in the way you have been doing. Thank you.

YOUSAF: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: The United Nations is warning that more than 1 million Palestinian children face starvation and malnutrition. We were just hearing

about it with Nadia.

Earlier, our Christiane Amanpour spoke with the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD MUSTAFA, PRIME MINISTER, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: I think the priority, therefore, is for the international community to pressure Israel,

seriously pressure Israel to open the borders and allow food in. There is no need to give excuses.

The starvation is evident. Everybody in the world can see that. The truth is children are also being starving, being allowed to die starving.

Journalists are being targeted, aid workers are being targeted.

So, this got to end. There is no reason to continue this war. We need first the border crossing to open, aid to come in, United Nations and

international organizations be allowed to do their job. A ceasefire to take place, and then Israeli forces to leave Gaza. And then, with the support of

international partners, the Palestinian Authority is more than willing and able to do the job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: The prime minister of the Palestinian Authority.

We will be right back after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:21]

MACFARLANE: Hulk Hogan, one of the most famous professional wrestlers ever, has died at the age of 71, reportedly from a heart attack.

He grew to fame in the 1980s when he appeared in the movie "Rocky 3". Hogan later became the face of professional wrestling as world champion of the

World Wrestling Federation. Last year, he endorsed Donald Trump, calling him, quote, my hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HULK HOGAN, WRESTLING LEGEND: Let Trump-a-mania, run wild, brother. Let Trump-a-mania rule again. Let Trump-a-mania make America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Our Stephanie Elam has more on the wrestling legend's life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HULK HOGAN: Since I'm the number one in professional wrestling, everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon, man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The legend who became Hulk Hogan was first drawn to wrestling as a fan. A young musician named Terry

Bollea, whose height and enthusiasm got noticed by the wrestlers he met.

HULK HOGAN: And they said, man, if you could gain some weight and get in little bit of shape, you got a little charisma there. You know, you might

be able to fit in with us.

ELAM: Bollea received his stage name, Hulk, after fellow wrestlers noticed he was bigger than Lou Ferrigno, the bodybuilder who played the incredible

hulk on tv.

HULK HOGAN: We got hundreds of thousands of Hulkamaniacs. We're going to make Woodstock look like a backyard barbecue, brother.

ELAM: Hogan was not a graceful wrestler, but he was skilled in getting the audience on his side. He became an overwhelming crowd favorite, riding a

huge wave of popularity he called Hulkamania.

HULK HOGAN: For me, you can turn your TV on, on some weekends and catch ten saturating hours of Hulk Hogan or more. So I spent a lot of time in front

of the camera.

ELAM: Hogan's pride in his work got him into legal trouble. In 1984, during a talk show appearance, comedian Richard Belzer asked hogan to try a

wrestling move on him. Hogan put Belzer in a real sleeper hold, causing him to pass out and collapse onto the hard studio floor.

Belzer ended up with a deep cut to the back of his head. He filed a lawsuit against Hogan and the World Wrestling Federation, which was settled out of

court.

But Hogan's star continued to rise, presenting himself as a healthy, family friendly, flag-waving patriot.

HULK HOGAN: Train, say your prayers, eat your vitamins, be true to yourself, true to your country. Be a real American.

ELAM: The peak of his wrestling career came in Wrestlemania 3, when he defeated Andre the Giant with a body slam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this. He slammed him. I don't believe it.

ELAM: Out of character, Hogan admitted that his level of stardom couldn't last forever.

HULK HOGAN: They're excited as heck to see you, and it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And thank God, it's still happening. What if it

wasn't?

ELAM: Eventually, Hogan's wrestling stardom did fade and was tarnished when he was forced in court to admit he had used steroids.

Hogan tried to rebrand himself as a reality TV star. The overprotective dad to two kids, and Hogan knows best.

HULK HOGAN: If we're dysfunctional, we're a normal, dysfunctional family.

ELAM: But that family image was rocked after his longtime marriage ended, and a video later leaked online showed him having sex with a married woman.

Hogan sued the website Gawker for invasion of privacy. The case ultimately bankrupted Gawker and ended with a $31 million settlement for Hogan.

HULK HOGAN: I think we made history today because I think we protected a lot of people from maybe going through what I went through.

ELAM: In the ring, on TV, or even in the courts, Hulk Hogan was a compelling entertainer who fulfilled the celebrity dream he had for

himself.

[15:55:11]

HULK HOGAN: When it's in your blood, you'll do about anything to make it and get the job done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: And finally, tonight, are you struggling to get in 10,000 steps a day?

Well, good news, you can lower that goal and still see the same health benefits. That's according to a new study in the Lancet Public Health

Journal. It turns out just 7,000 steps a day is enough to improve overall health. Researchers looked at 31 different studies that weighed the impact

of the overall step count on cardiovascular disease, dementia, type two diabetes, and cancer.

So, all those years I could have been running around with a bit more time on my hands.

That is it for us for now. That is WHAT WE KNOW. I'm Christina Macfarlane.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.

END

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