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What We Know with Max Foster
Trump: Time To "Finish The Job," "Get Rid Of" Hamas; Deputy Attorney General Meets Ghislaine Maxwell For Second Day; Federal Reserve "Honored" By Trump Visit, Despite Powell Spat; France Expects Other Nations To Recognize Palestinian State; President Trump Arrives In Glasgow. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 25, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Well, Donald Trump says Hamas will be hunted down.
I'm Lynda Kinkade in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.
We begin with a stern warning to Hamas from U.S. President Donald Trump, amid what appears to be the collapse of ceasefire talks. It comes after the
U.S. and Israel recalled their negotiating teams from Qatar on Thursday, citing the Hamas response to the latest proposal.
Well, American and Israeli officials are now both saying that they are considering alternative options to try to end the fighting and bring the
remaining hostages home. President Trump told reporters today that Hamas didn't really want to make a deal. He says it's time to finish the job and
get rid of the militant group.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got a lot of hostages out. We took them out in numbers that nobody believed. A lot of them. And I
said, when you get down to 10 or 20, I don't think Hamas is going to make a deal because that means they have no protection. And basically, that's what
happened. Hamas didn't want to make a deal.
REPORTER: Have you seen have you seen that photo?
TRUMP: I think -- I think what's going to happen is they're going to be hunted down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, Kevin Liptak is following the story, joining us live from the White House.
Good to see you, Kevin.
So what exactly does Donald Trump mean when he says they are considering other options, other options are on the table to end the fighting and bring
the hostages home?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It's not entirely clear. Neither the president nor the State Department, nor Steve Witkoff, who has
the presidents special envoy who has been leading these negotiations, has exactly described the contours of what these alternative options might be.
But when the president says and when Witkoff says that they would be used to try and get some of these hostages out, I guess it raises the prospect
that they would organize some kind of commando raid to go in and get those remaining captives out of the strip, as the president grows more and more
pessimistic that a ceasefire and that these negotiations are really leading anywhere, although, you know, no one at this point is really describing
what those options are at any level of detail.
It was, I think, very kind of striking how negative the president did sound on the prospects of a ceasefire coming together. You know, it was only
earlier this month when the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was here at the White House having dinner with the president that Trump said he thought
a ceasefire was only about a week away. Essentially describing it as happening within a matter of days. But now the president, sounding much
more negative, saying that because Hamas is sort of putting up resistance, that it's time for Israel to as his as he puts it, finish the job to go in
and get them all.
And I think that is kind of striking, just given what the humanitarian situation is on the ground there. You know, these images of starving
skeletal children, of some of the need and dire hunger that they're experiencing on the ground there so many people, I think, were hopeful that
these latest round of ceasefire talks, which did seem to have some momentum at some point, would potentially be fruitful and would potentially allow
the aid to start flowing in. But President Trump, I think, sort of saying the opposite today, that it's time for Israel to actually escalate the
conflict and try and bring Hamas to its knees one final time.
Of course, Israel has been trying to do that for the last 21 months and hasn't necessarily been successful in entirely eradicating that
organization. And it's not clear what President Trump thinks that they'll be able to do now that they haven't been able to do since the October 7th
terror attacks in 2023.
But certainly, not necessarily a very hopeful sounding state of affairs, at least from President Trump's perspective today.
KINKADE: Yeah, I mean, the humanitarian situation on the ground is getting worse by the hour. And Israel has long justified the aid restrictions by
accusing Hamas of stealing that aid. But a new report by USAID has found no evidence of widespread theft.
What more can you tell us about that investigation?
LIPTAK: Yeah, and this is something that were just learning about today. And, you know, even President Trump earlier today was talking about why aid
wasn't getting into Gaza. And he pinned the blame on Hamas as well.
But according to this report, it suggests that they have found no definitive evidence of Hamas stealing the aid or getting in the way. They
said that they studied many different instances of this.
[15:05:04]
They looked into 156 incidents of waste, fraud and abuse that was reported by some of these organizations that are on the ground trying to distribute
the aid. And they found, quote, no affiliations with either sanctioned groups or foreign terrorist organizations, which would include Hamas. And
this is what a source familiar with the report told us. There is no indication that there was a systemic loss due to Hamas interference of
theft or diversion.
What the report essentially also found was that they couldn't attribute a lot of these incidents to any particular actor, which of course leaves the
open the possibility that if they aren't able to attribute it, that it could have been Hamas. But what sources have suggested is that unlikely,
because there would have been evidence to that extent, you know.
So the report really kind of downplaying the prospects and accusations that you've heard from the State Department and from President Trump that Hamas
could be responsible for some of this aid going awry.
KINKADE: All right. Well, U.S. President Trump is due to land in Scotland this hour. We will bring those pictures live when it happens to our
viewers.
Kevin Liptak outside the White House, thanks so much.
LIPTAK: Sure.
KINKADE: Well, Israel says it will allow other countries to airdrop aid into Gaza in the coming days. An official says Jordan and the UAE will
carry out the drops. In the past, dropping aid by air has proven to be dangerous. Some people desperately trying to reach those supplies have been
killed. The U.N. and aid groups say the method is very expensive and should not replace the delivery of aid by land.
Well, Palestinians, along with some Jewish Israelis, took to the streets in one Arab town in Israel today to call for an end to the war and the
suffering in Gaza.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Amid the images of starvation in Gaza that have shocked the world, we are here in Israel at one of the
largest anti-war demonstrations that this country has seen. We are talking about a large community of Palestinian citizens of Israel, some Jewish
Israelis as well, who have come to raise their voices not only against the war in Gaza, but in particular against the starvation that many here see as
a direct result of Israeli policies in Gaza.
And as that is happening, we are seeing people come out here with the images of the bodies of many of those individuals in Gaza who have been
starving. We are seeing people banging pots and pans to call attention to all of that. You know, in Israel, we haven't seen a lot of big antiwar
demonstrations, the largest that we have seen have largely been focused on the hostages and the fate of the hostages, with many there also calling for
an end to the war.
But here the focus is very much on the plight of Palestinians, on the plight of Palestinians inside of Gaza. And amid it all, what we are hearing
now are chants against the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who many here see as responsible not only for the war in Gaza but for the
current starvation now underway.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Sakhnin, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney says she answered every single question asked by the second most powerful official at the Justice
Department. He didn't clarify what the conversation was about or why Todd Blanche was there. The deputy attorney general, who is also President
Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, has been speaking with Jeffrey Epstein's longtime accomplice over the past two days.
Well, CNN's Kara Scannell is following the story and joins us with the latest on the Epstein scandal.
Good to see you, Kara.
So, this is the second day that we've seen the convicted sex offender being questioned by the deputy attorney general, which is quite unusual in
itself. What exactly is the DOJ hoping to get from these conversations?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good to be with you, Lynda.
Yeah, this is a very unusual meeting to have the second most powerful person in the Justice Department meeting with someone who is convicted of
this sex related crime and serving a 20-year prison sentence. So, you know, this meeting comes as the White House and the Trump administration is
struggling to tamp down the political firestorm that has erupted over the Epstein files and their about-face decision to not release more
information.
So -- and that's the kind of the backdrop for this meeting. And the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, said that he wanted to meet with Maxwell to
see what she knew about any other crimes committed by anyone else involving Epstein's victims. So, Blanche said he will provide more information about
the details that he learned from this investigation in the appropriate time.
But they haven't laid out a timeline for that, or even what Maxwell could say that they think would help where they're looking in this to, to quell
this firestorm. But also, if there is any further stone to be unturned in this investigation, the Justice Department has said that they looked at
everything in the first instance and that they reviewed the files more recently, that they do not see any other individuals who they could bring a
case against that there is no client list that Jeffrey Epstein kept and that there's no evidence of any blackmail. He held against anyone else.
So, certainly, a big question here for what comes out of this. Now, Maxwell's lawyer has spoken to reporters after the meeting. He said that no
promises were made about this meeting and that he did not know what would - - the outcome would ultimately be. He said he has not spoken with President Trump about a possible pardon, but he says he hopes he exercises his right
and does the right thing. Certainly, a big question.
But his lawyers said that there were there was nothing that was off limits over these meetings that took place over the past two days that were more
than nine hours. In fact, he said that Maxwell was asked about as many -- he said maybe as many as 100 different people throughout these interviews.
And of course, you know, these allegations around Epstein have spanned for more than two decades. We've heard President Trump's name being mentioned.
Prince Andrew, a host of others, all of whom have denied any wrongdoing, not even many of them have been accused of any wrongdoing, but certainly an
expansive period of time, and a lot of people.
And her lawyer says that she answered every question truthfully, and that he was hopeful that there would be an outcome where she could get out of
this prison sentence that she is serving, of which she's only about four years into the 20-year sentence.
KINKADE: All right. We will stay across this story and have much more on it later this hour.
Kara Scannell, thanks very much.
Well, President Trump took his campaign for lower interest rates directly to the source during a rare and at times uncomfortable visit to the central
bank's headquarters. The Federal Reserve says it was, quote, honored to welcome the president yesterday for a visit to our historic headquarters
and promised to see its controversial renovation project through to completion.
Well, the Fed is striking a warm tone despite the bizarrely frosty scenes we saw yesterday when Mr. Trump appeared to ambush the fed chair with a new
estimate of the renovation costs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It looks like it's about 3.1 billion. It went up a little bit or a lot. So, the 2.7 is now 3.1.
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: And I'm not aware of that.
TRUMP: Yeah. It just came out.
POWELL: Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody from the Fed.
You just add -- you just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.
TRUMP: But it's a building that's being built.
POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now for more.
This was such an unusual exchange, seeing the U.S. president corrected publicly in real time by the chairman of the Federal Reserve. Of course,
this is not the first time we've seen any sort of tension between these two. Just earlier this month, Donald Trump referred to him as terrible.
Talk to us about this strange relationship and that exchange we saw.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it was a striking exchange because you had the president of the United States trying
to validate his inquiry and his whole reason for being at the Federal Reserve was to check on these renovations that his administration says are
overbudget and out of scope. And you saw the chair of the Federal Reserve fact-checking President Trump in real time.
But it's so curious because after that moment, something changed, because when we heard President Trump coming out of that meeting, that tour, and he
held a little bit of a press conference, he says, I want to help him. I want to help the Federal Reserve get this job done, get this renovation
finished. And then on Truth Social, just a short time after he said that the cost overruns are substantial. But on the positive side, our country's
doing very well and can afford just about anything, even the cost of this building.
And he said with all of that being said, let's just get it finished. And then we heard from the president this morning who called Jerome Powell a
very good man. That is very, very different from calling him terrible. Listen to more of what he said this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think we had a very good meeting. Forgetting about the building that's out of control and all that. But I think we had a very good meeting
on interest rates. And he said to me, I don't know if he's going to say this on Thursday or every speech, but he said to me very strongly, the
country is doing well.
He said, congratulations. The country is doing really well. And I got that to mean that I think he's going to start recommending lower rates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YURKEVICH: Okay. So it appears that the president has moved on, at least for now, from the renovation project at the Federal Reserve. He is clearly
still focused on interest rates. He has been pushing for months now to get Jerome Powell and the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates. Of course,
it is a 12-person board that votes on what to do with interest rates, not just up to Jerome Powell.
The Fed is meeting next week, and most people, most economists analysts believe that the Federal Reserve will continue to hold rates steady.
[15:15:06]
They've been doing that all year long.
Obviously, that is something that the president has been very upset with, saying that that's holding back people from being able to buy homes because
the Fed funds rate very much translate into what mortgage rates look like, which are at almost 7 percent here in the United States.
But the president, really striking a different tone with Jerome Powell in the past 24 hours since that visit at the Federal Reserve, remains to be
seen, though what happens in the next week, especially next week, when the Federal Reserve does make their decision on interest rates? Do we start to
hear more from the president if the Federal Reserve decides to hold rates steady, Lynda? Which is what many experts believe is exactly what's going
to happen.
KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. We will watch and wait and see.
Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks so much.
YURKEVICH: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, still to come, France will now recognize a Palestinian state. So, will other major nations follow suit? We'll have that story,
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade.
France will soon recognize a Palestinian state and expects other nations to follow suit. The news was welcomed by the Palestinian vice president. A
senior French official tells CNN that, quote, the idea is to put a bit of pressure on other countries following President Emmanuel Macron's surprise
announcement on Thursday.
Well, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned the decision, saying that it rewards the terrorists. President Macron says he will make a
formal announcement in September at the United Nations General Assembly.
Well, Israel and the U.S. have condemned the decision as rewarding Hamas and setting back peace. This would make France the first major western
country to change its diplomatic stance after Spain, Ireland and Norway formally recognized Palestinian statehood last year.
CNN's Saskya Vandoorne has the details.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN PARIS BUREAU CHIEF: This is a historic move from France. It says it will recognize the state of Palestine at the United
Nations this September, becoming the first major western power to do so. And the timing is no accident.
French front pages this week show images of skeletal Gazan children, victims of the hunger crisis, pushing the Palestinian question back to the
top of the agenda.
As ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas again look to be stalling, an Elysee spokesman said Macron hopes the move could add pressure on Jerusalem
at a critical moment.
So why has Macron done this? Despite strong support for Israel after the October 7th Hamas terror attacks, he says this isn't about Hamas. It's
about reviving the two-state solution.
We must build the state of Palestine and ensure it contributes to security of all, he wrote.
JOSHUA ZARKA, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO FRANCE: Hamas are looking at what's happening, are looking at what is being decided in international community
and from their point of view, it will be an encouragement to continue. It is going to be harmful not only for the future, but for the continuation of
the war. It will encourage basically Hamas to say, well, it's working. Why should we stop?
VANDOORNE: Meanwhile, President Donald Trump dismissed the move.
TRUMP: His statement doesn't carry any weight. He's a very good guy. I like him, but that statement doesn't carry weight.
VANDOORNE: The decision follows Spain, Ireland and Norway who recognize Palestine last year. The stakes are high for Macron, as France is home to
the largest Jewish and Muslim populations in Western Europe. And yet a May poll found 63 percent support statehood.
And pressure came from within France, too. This week, prominent French historian Vincent Lemire warned Macron, quote, if you wait any longer,
you'll end up recognizing a cemetery.
For Macron, it's also about legacy, following in the footsteps of President de Gaulle, Francois Mitterrand and Jacques Chirac, all of whom were
sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, Macron may be taking the lead and adding symbolic gesture, but for now, there's little hope the French
decision will change the reality on the ground in Gaza.
Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: So what we want to know is will the French declaration encourage other G7 nations to follow its lead?
Joining me now is CNN global affairs commentator Sabrina Singh. She's also a former deputy press secretary at the Pentagon. Good to have you with us.
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Thanks for having me.
KINKADE: So President Macron's decision to formally recognize a Palestinian state is a major diplomatic move. What kind of message does this send, both
globally and specifically here to the U.S.?
SINGH: As you said, this is a major move. I mean, this is very significant as France is the only G7 country to recognize Palestine as a state.
So, I think, you know, what Macron did is take a significant amount of risk. But I think this is tremendous pressure that it's going to put on
other countries within the G7 to see if they follow Macron's lead. And you're already seeing the U.K. and Germany holding emergency meetings and
discussing, you know, the path forward of what you know, how humanitarian aid can get into Gaza. There's a lot of pressure building within their
national community to put more pressure on Israel to get humanitarian aid into Gaza.
And I think Macron saw an opportunity here to really force that conversation. So, it's greatly significant. Now, I don't think this
administration, the United States, is going to join and follow Macron. But I do think that Macron's decision puts more pressure on European leaders.
KINKADE: Yeah, certainly, the U.K. prime minister said it will recognize a Palestinian state as part of a peace process deal. I want to ask you about
the humanitarian situation in Gaza because Israel has long said its restricted aid because of Hamas stealing supplies. We've now got this USAID
investigation that has found no widespread theft of aid.
How much leverage could that potentially give the U.S., should it want to use it to push Israel to allow more aid in?
SINGH: Look, I think that you've seen Steve Witkoff try and engage with Israel and, you know, with Hamas to try and get a ceasefire. But we're not
seeing enough pressure from this administration to force humanitarian aid to get into Gaza. And that that is something that really does differ from
the previous administration. I mean, when I was serving in the Biden administration, we were constantly almost every single conversation,
sometimes daily conversations with the Israelis were about opening up those land access routes.
That is the most effective way to get aid in. And since Donald Trump came into office, what you've seen is basically these privatized aid sites open
only in the southern part of Israel.
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But that leaves the North completely exposed to what you're seeing of these devastating photos of famine and hunger and long lines at these
distribution sites that are turning into incredibly deadly clashes because people are just starving. So, while I do think this administration is
engaged in trying to bring a ceasefire to a close, there's not enough coming from the top to get humanitarian aid in.
And regardless of if there's a ceasefire tomorrow or 60 days from now, people are dying because they do not have access to food and water. And
that needs to be the conversation right now.
KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we saw the UNICEF report saying that a 54 percent increase in malnutrition related child deaths have happened since
April. And the pictures we are getting in from the Gaza strip are horrific.
Given that Israel controls most of that strip, what are the pressure can be applied?
SINGH: Well, look, there are certain leverage tactics that the United States and other countries can put on Israel. I mean, of course, the United
States continues to stand in support with Israel, whether it be economically, financially or of course, you know, in providing foreign
military sales. These are all conversations that can be had at very senior levels that can influence how the Israeli government operates within that
strip. And you can have conversations to say, hey, essentially we are going to turn off certain mechanisms and support to you if you don't allow these
humanitarian aid trucks to get in.
And I mean, it truly is in Israel's benefit to feed these people, to feed starving people. It really doesn't make sense why you would withhold
humanitarian aid. I mean, we're talking about little babies.
And so, you know, at this point, you know what I would like to see from this administration is more senior level, high level conversations
pressuring the Israeli government to open up those land access routes to allow the U.N. and other organizations in to help with the distribution of
humanitarian aid.
KINKADE: Israel has said it will now -- will soon allow airdrops from foreign countries like Jordan and the UAE. But airdrops come with
significant risks, right?
SINGH: Absolutely. I mean, airdrops are -- you know, it's sort of a last resort mechanism. And that's something that we did do under the Biden
administration.
I mean, U.S. Central Command partnered with the Jordanians and did do airdrops, but those airdrops, I mean, you're dropping pallets of food that
are thousands of pounds into the water, and then people have to go out into the water and retrieve them.
And there's a real art to it. You have to take into effect the air and to make sure that these food pallets don't land on buildings and crush people.
So ultimately, airdrops. While it is an immediate way to inject aid in, it's not -- it's nowhere near enough. What you need to feed nearly 2
million people.
You need those land routes to open up. You need those trucks to get in, and you need the safe distribution of aid.
KINKADE: All right. Sabrina Singh, appreciate your perspective on this issue. Thanks so much for joining us.
SINGH: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, still to come. You can see right now the U.S. president touching down in Scotland. There he is of course on a four-day trip to the
U.K. where he will meet with the U.K. prime minister to discuss trade. He'll also be opening a new golf course.
So, he is expected to draw quite a crowd there. We've already seen some pictures of hundreds of people gathering there to see his arrival there on
the outskirts of Glasgow.
President Trump on Air Force One, unclear just how many supporters are turning up and how many protesters there will be, but we have seen
certainly some interesting front pages of the newspapers there.
I want to bring in our Jeff Zeleny, who is in the in the country covering the president's arrival and the trip.
So, talk to us about the president's agenda over the next four days, Jeff.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, this is President Trump's fifth international trip since taking office. The
first obviously, here in Scotland, his first return back since he returned back to power. And this is largely designed as a working vacation with a
lot of golf on the side.
But as these things often happen, a few more agenda items have been added along the way, including a meeting on Sunday with the president of the
European commission, Ursula von der Leyen, as well as that meeting with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Monday. Obviously, trade and tariffs
are front and center in that, as well as many other issues to talk about.
But again, it is golf is the reason that President Trump is landing in Scotland, as we can see right now. And of course, he has a bit of family
history here in Scotland. His mother was born here and she emigrated to the United States at the age of 18 years old.
The reason we're talking about that now is the golf course will be dedicating a new 18-hole golf course is named after his mother, and that's
on the northern coast of the country.
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He'll be doing that early next week. So that is the purpose of the trip. But of course, there are many other things on the agenda. But as is normal,
this president plays golf on weekends, most every weekend actually, since taking office. This is no exception.
KINKADE: And I'm wondering, Jeff, what sort of reception he's expected to get there, considering the front page of one of the newspapers there, the
national newspaper, it read convicted U.S. felon to arrive in Scotland.
ZELENY: Look, I mean that certainly sets the table and shares the view of what many in Scotland have toward the U.S. president. Protests are expected
here in Edinburgh, as well as in some other cities tomorrow. We will see if they materialize and are as large as they were back in 2018 during his
first visit.
But while the president holds a fond view of Scotland, it is less clear if Scotland holds a fond view of the U.S. president. There have been many
objections over the development of his golf courses here over the years. Some promises that have never materialized in terms of development and
building hotels and the like. Some of that just simply hasn't happened.
You know, there certainly is a view here, at least public opinion polls will show that a broad majority of residents here dislike and disapprove of
Donald Trump. But of course, he's coming here anyway. But he's not expected to be anywhere actually in public. He's going to do all of his meetings on
his golf courses again, one at the Trump Turnberry course on the western side of Scotland. And then on Monday, he'll be going up to his northern
property as well.
So, he spends a lot of time on his golf courses again this weekend is par for the course.
KINKADE: And, of course, just before he took off France, the French president said he would formally recognize Palestinian statehood. The U.K.
prime minister was also asked about that and said the U.K. would consider that too. As part of a peace process deal.
How could that potentially drive a deeper wedge with the U.S. on this issue, given the U.S.'s stance?
ZELENY: That is a central question also, hanging over that meeting with the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, on Monday.
Certainly, the U.S. president, Donald Trump, said before leaving Washington earlier today. He acknowledged rather bluntly that Hamas is not interested
in seeking further steps in terms of a peace deal, but that deepening humanitarian crisis, you know, shocking to the world, no doubt. It could
drive a wedge between the U.S. and European leaders that are seeking to recognize the Palestinian state. So, we will see how that develops here.
There is no question that the Middle East and Gaza hangs over this as the as the images that we have seen of the starvation and things have been
discussed by European leaders and others, much more than they have been by President Trump.
KINKADE: Yeah, it certainly seems that the pressure is growing. We are hearing more and more from European leaders, especially when it comes to
the delivery of aid to allow more aid in. In light of the UNICEF report, the 54 percent increase in malnutrition related child deaths since April,
what sort of pressure do you think the U.K. prime minister may apply? When in -- when he comes to those discussions on Monday with the U.S. president?
ZELENY: Look, it's unclear what type of pressure he can apply, but I think, you know, as one leader after another, obviously, French President Emmanuel
Macron are beginning it. And then Prime Minister Starmer continuing it.
I mean, it does become kind of a gathering storm, and President Trump in the U.S. clearly are, you know, need to do more. At least that is the view
of many leaders around the world. And what is the role of the United States in this?
I mean, certainly complicated by the United States already tense relationships with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But aid and a
food delivery is something that is a deepening humanitarian crisis, there is no doubt.
But again, President Trump has not focused on that nearly as much. We will see if British Prime Minister Starmer helps shine a brighter light on that
during their Monday meeting.
KINKADE: Yeah. Air Force One just almost coming to a standstill there on the tarmac on the outskirts of Glasgow there. I understand he's going to be
meeting with the Scottish secretary and no doubt there are plenty of people there on the tarmac to see -- to see the president get off that plane.
In terms of the trade discussions that Keir Starmer will have with Donald Trump on Monday, what's expected to come from those talks?
[15:35:05]
ZELENY: Well, look, the trade discussions between the U.K. and the U.S. are largely worked out. At least a framework of the trade discussions are
perhaps the bigger open question is the E.U. The E.U. is facing yet another, another deadline in this on again, off again wave of tariffs that
is really, you know, been one of the through lines of this administration that August 1st deadline is something that the European Union is trying to
work out a deal with the United States before that to avoid a blanket tariff rate of some 30 percent.
So that is why a meeting on Sunday, which has just been added to the schedule, perhaps that is a bit more interesting. The U.K. trade deal has
largely been agreed to in principle, but it is because of the warm relationship that the British prime minister has really tried to engender
with the U.S. president that has led to the U.K. getting a better shake, if you will, than many other allies and many other countries as well.
But the unpredictability of the Trump tariff plan certainly has been something that has sort of been off putting to many countries and, and
world leaders that is really defined the first six months of the Trump administration. So, we will see if there's any resolution or production
here. Again, this trip was intended to be about golf, not necessarily about business, but the trade deadlines have added on to it.
There's going to be a second state visit that President Trump will be returning to the United Kingdom in September for a formal state visit at
Windsor. The king invited the U.S. president back for a state visit, which is pretty rare. I mean, Donald Trump had an official formal ceremonial
state visit with Queen Elizabeth back during his first years in office, and to have him come back to do it with King Charles is certainly
extraordinary.
So, this meeting and this visit is something of a prelude to that which is coming in September.
KINKADE: And, of course, he leaves the U.S. with the Epstein files and the questions surrounding that hanging over his head. We know for the second
day, the U.S. deputy attorney general has been questioning Ghislaine Maxwell, who is, of course, a convicted sex trafficker. In terms of whether
or not he will pardon her, that certainly was a question that he was asked, and he said that he does indeed have the ability to do that should he
choose.
Jeff, I mean, why would he do that? And what sort of risk does that carry if he even considers that?
ZELENY: Look, that was an interesting and important question that was asked. And the president noting that he does have the power to do so. Of
course, the Jeffrey Epstein scandal has been hanging over this administration for several weeks, largely of their own making, because
they, of course, were raising questions about conspiracy theories and the like for the better part of a decade with the disgraced financier Jeffrey
Epstein, who is a longtime former friend of the presidents.
But the pardon specifically, whether the president would or would not Pardon Ghislaine Maxwell, that became important because, again, as you
said, she had a meeting today for the second day in a row with the deputy attorney general of the United States. That shows just how high of a
ranking priority this is for this president and this administration to try and get something from her.
So that is why a pardon -- a discussion is relevant here. We will see if the president does that. But one thing being here now landing in Scotland,
the White House and the president certainly hoping that they can put the questions of the Jeffrey Epstein matter behind them, leave them in
Washington. We will see if that happens, because every single day there have been new developments in this White House has struggled to get through
this political crisis.
KINKADE: Yeah. And it's interesting particularly with this crisis, that it's not so much a one sided political attack. People in Trump's own base
want more information about who is in the Epstein files.
How unusual is it that that you're seeing this sort of scrutiny from some of Trump's most staunchest supporters, really?
ZELENY: It's very unusual. I mean, we have seen Republicans in the House of Representatives, in Congress voting to subpoena documents, effectively
going against the wishes of their party. This is really one of the rare, rare examples of something where it actually has divided the party.
And the reason for that is for, again, the better part of a decade, many of President Trump's early supporters, some of his loudest supporters, have
been raising questions about the what they believe is a conspiracy theory about the Jeffrey Epstein case, that there were people who were being
protected by this, by the Biden administration, even the Obama administration going way back.
[15:40:12]
Well, when the Trump administration is now in charge, Republicans have been left sort of flat footed and empty handed in terms of getting some of these
answers. So even as the president and the White House have tried to tamp this down and move on, that has not been enough for some of their
supporters because they've been led to believe that there is more there.
And it's unclear if there actually is more there or not. It is unclear if there actually is any type of a conspiracy. We do know that President Trump
had a long standing relationship with Jeffrey Epstein from the late `80s until 2004, when they had a falling out.
We've learned that, you know, the extent of their friendship was quite close. But the president is mentioned in some of these files, but that the
context is unclear. And he, of course, has not been accused or suggested of any wrongdoing.
Jeffrey Epstein had many friends, but that is why its dividing the Republican Party, because some of the president's own supporters want more
answers to this. So, it's one of the burdens of being in power, positions of power. You actually have to make these decisions here. And the Trump
administration has been flat-footed on many of them.
KINKADE: And just for our viewers, we just saw the U.S. president, Donald Trump, touching down there in Glasgow, Scotland, as part of a four-day trip
where he's going to be opening a new golf course and also meeting with the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, to discuss trade and of course, the
situation in Gaza.
Our Jeff Zeleny is standing by for us right now.
It looks like Donald Trump may be taking some questions. Let's listen in.
TRUMP: We'll be meeting with the prime minister I guess tomorrow. It will be tomorrow and the next day. And we're going to do some great things. Do
you have any questions?
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
TRUMP: What?
Yes, I'll be meeting with the E.U. on Sunday, and we'll be working on a deal. We'll see if we make a deal. Ursula will be here, highly respected
woman. So, we look forward to that. That'll be good.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
TRUMP: We'll have numerous executives that were meeting with. A lot of them. We're going to be meeting with a lot of people. A lot of people will
be staying at Turnberry, and then we're going to Aberdeen, which is the oil capital of Europe, actually.
REPORTER: Mr. President, can you explain what is kind of what is missing in the U.K. deal that you have to work out?
TRUMP: Nothing. We just -- I think it's more of a celebration than a workout. It's a great deal for both. And we're going to have a meeting on
other things other than the deal. The deal is concluded.
REPORTER: So French President Emmanuel Macron just said that France will officially recognize the Palestinian state. What's your comment?
TRUMP: Well, that's what he does. I mean, you know, he -- that's fine if he does that, that's up to him. It's not up to me. I'm with the United States.
I'm not with France.
REPORTER: And the situation in Gaza, we hear very dire warnings about --
TRUMP: I think it's terrible what happened with Hamas. They tapped everybody along and we'll see what happens. We'll see what response Israel
has to that. But it's getting to be that time.
REPORTER: Are you concerned about the impact?
REPORTER: There's a 50/50 chance of a deal. What is left to work out? What are the final sticking points?
TRUMP: I don't know. With the European Union, I think we have a good 50/50 chance. That's a lot.
REPORTER: What are the sticking points?
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to tell you what the sticking points are, but the sticking points are having to do with maybe 20 different things. You don't
want to listen to all of them.
Yes?
REPORTER: Are you going to have for our prime minister about free speech, very important to people here?
TRUMP: Well, it is, but I like your prime minister. He's slightly more liberal than I am, as you probably heard. But he's a good man. He got a
trade deal done.
And, you know, they've been working on this deal for 12 years. He got it done. It's a good deal. It's a good deal for the U.K.
So, no, I'll be seeing him tomorrow I guess, tomorrow evening. And this is our wonderful ambassador, as you know, he's doing a good job. He'll be --
he's a very, very successful man. He'll be doing a good job.
REPORTER: The Royal and Ancient says you're going to have to improve infrastructure at Turnberry to bring the open back. Is that something?
TRUMP: I don't know. The best course, the best course anywhere in the world is Turnberry. The players all want to be at Turnberry. Everybody wants to
be at Turnberry, so we'll see how that works out.
REPORTER: The infrastructure needs to be --
TRUMP: I think the -- well, the infrastructure in the course is good. In fact, the Royal and Ancient, I don't know if you're aware of this. They
spent a lot of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars or probably into the millions of dollars, and they've laid all the wire for television and for
electricity under the halls of Turnberry, so that when the open gets there, they have it all done. They paid for that.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
TRUMP: I don't know, I don't know what you can do. All I can tell you is that it would be the best place anywhere in your country to have. There's
no place like it. There's no place like Turnberry. It's the best -- probably the best course in the world. And I would say Aberdeen is right up
there also. Aberdeen is great.
And while we're here, I'll be with my son and he's going to cut a ribbon for the second course at Aberdeen, which is just about equal to the first.
I mean, it's going to be a battle, you know, it's -- as you know, they're very highly rated. And the second course is great.
Sean Connery helped get me the permits. If it weren't for Sean Connery, we wouldn't have those great courses.
REPORTER: Mr. President, (INAUDIBLE) your name appearing in the Epstein files ever?
TRUMP: No, I was never, never briefed on it.
REPORTER: Did you ask how --
REPORTER: What are you hoping Todd Blanche interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell - - what are you hoping that they get out of that?
TRUMP: I really have no -- really nothing to say about it. She is being talked to by a very smart man, by a very good man, Todd Blanche. And I
don't know anything about the conversation. I haven't really been following it.
A lot of people are asking me about pardons. Obviously, this is no time to be talking about pardons, but a lot of people have asked about pardon. This
is just not a time to be talking about pardons.
Todd will come back with whatever he's got. You make it a very big thing over something that's not a big thing you should be talking about. If
you're going to talk about that, talk about Clinton, talk about the former president of Harvard, talk about all of his friends. Talk about the hedge
fund guys that were with him all the time. Don't talk about Trump.
What you should be talking about is the fact that we have the greatest six months in the history of a presidency, according to a lot of people. And we
had an amazing six months. And this is sort of an example of it. Now, we're meeting with the European Union, having -- we're also meeting with, as you
know, the head of U.K., prime minister. And I look forward to that.
But we're meeting -- in terms of a deal. We're meeting with the European Union. And that would be actually the biggest deal of them all. If we make
it.
REPORTER: Did you ask House Republican leaders to not vote on the resolution about Epstein files?
TRUMP: No, I was never -- I was never involved in that. I'm focused on making deals. I'm not focused on conspiracy theories that you are. I mean,
I watch you people. It's so sad.
You ought to talk about the success of our country instead of this nonsense that you talk about over and over again.
REPORTER: You're doing an amazing job on illegal migration in America.
TRUMP: I have.
REPORTER: People here are very worried about the situation. Record numbers.
TRUMP: Well, I say, I say two things to Europe. Stop the windmills. You're ruining your countries. I really mean it. It's so sad.
You fly over and you see these windmills all over the place ruining your beautiful fields and valleys and killing your birds. And if they're stuck
in the ocean ruining your oceans stop the windmills.
And I also, I mean, there's a couple of things I could say, but on immigration, you better get your act together or you're not going to have
Europe anymore. You got to get your act together.
And we, you know, as you know, last month we had nobody entering our country. Nobody, shut it down. And we took out a lot of bad people that got
there with Biden. Biden was a total stiff. And what he allowed to happen.
But you're allowing it to happen to your countries and you got to stop the this horrible invasion that's happening to Europe.
Many countries in Europe, some people, some leaders have not let it happen, and they're not getting the proper credit. They should. I could name them
to you right now, but I'm not going to embarrass the other ones but stop this -- immigration is killing Europe.
And the other thing, stop the windmills killing the beauty of your countries. Thank you very much, everybody.
KINKADE: You've just been listening there to the U.S. president, Donald Trump, who has touched down in Glasgow, where he will be spending the next
few days there on what is both a personal trip, a business trip, a plus a political trip where he'll be meeting with both the U.K. prime minister,
the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, to discuss trade and the war in Gaza.
[15:50:01]
And he'll also be meeting with E.U. leaders to discuss a trade deal, said there's a 50/50 chance that it will happen. But he also said there are
about 20 different sticking points that remain, and he spoke, of course, about what he's there to do with his golf courses at Aberdeen and
Turnberry.
Kevin Liptak is standing by who just also listened in this. It's an interesting trip because it really does blur the lines between politics and
personal promotion of businesses there. We just heard Donald Trump talking about his golf courses being the best in the world, at the same time
discussing trade deals and international wars.
What stood out to you?
LIPTAK: Yeah, just for some context, the basis of what the president was saying there about Turnberry being the best course in the world, he was
asked whether the Royal and Ancient, which is the organization that runs the British Open, would eventually award the yearly tournament to
Turnberry, the course on the west coast of Scotland.
It has -- it's in the rotation for the British Open, but it hasn't been held there since 2009. The R&A says that there aren't enough hotel rooms
there, that the rail infrastructure isn't robust enough, and the president, on the one hand, says that he isn't really thinking about that too much,
but then went into that sort of lengthy answer, describing Turnberry as one of the best courses in the world, and then also describing his clubs on the
other side of Scotland in Aberdeenshire as also the best in the world, and this new course that he'll cut the ribbon on Tuesday is perhaps competing
in that.
So, you do see the president there to promoting his own businesses. At the end of the day, you know, we kind of have lost sight of the president's
conflicts of interest sometimes. And a lot of ways they seem quaint, given everything else that the president is doing that is controversial. But this
is just evident that it does remain something of an issue. And that's exactly what he's doing in Scotland this weekend is sort of attending to
those courses.
You know, you heard him talk about the E.U. and he will -- and he did confirm that he'll meet the European commission president, Ursula von der
Leyen, on Sunday evening, saying that he thinks that there's about a 50/50 chance that they strike a deal. And describing this prospective trade
agreement as the big one, you know, bigger than all of these other ones that he has so far negotiated.
But then you heard him go on this kind of lengthy screed about non-trade related issues in the European Union, whether its immigration, which is
obviously one of his biggest domestic political issues, whether it's windmills, that has been sort of a constant criticism of his, particularly
actually, when it comes to Scotland, obviously, Scotland is not in the E.U., but he has criticized Scotland's use of windmills, which he says sort
of destroys the view from some of these golf courses that he owns. So quite a lengthy sort of screed on that.
And then, of course, he's asked about the Epstein matter, repeating some of what he said earlier today, saying that now is not the time to talk about a
pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell, suggesting that this is all kind of a distraction from the most important business that he's focused on and
criticizing the media for being focused on a conspiracy. Although we should note that the conspiracy was ginned up by some of the president's own
supporters, some of whom are now serving in his administration. That's sort of why this is in the spotlight right now.
But the president clearly just trying to move on from that.
KINKADE: Yeah, it was certainly a lot to break down. In terms of what he went through in terms of the Ghislaine Maxwell and the Epstein files, you
know, he did for the first time, then just say, I've been asked about a pardon. It's not the time to talk about that right now. And he sort of
almost tried to shut down some of that discussion, saying nothing to say about it, but certainly he did -- he did talk about the U.S. deputy
attorney as being a very smart man, who, of course, was his former personal attorney, right?
LIPTAK: Yeah. Exactly. Right. You know, his answer here, I think, is trying to tamp it down. When I asked Trump about the pardons earlier today when he
was leaving the White House, he said he hadn't thought about it. But the most important thing that he said in that answer was that he had the power
to do it.
That answer actually caught the attention of Ghislaine Maxwells attorney, who is down in Florida with her today, saying that they had heard what the
president said there and that they were still hoping that he would exercise that power to the extent of his ability, not necessarily saying explicitly
that she wanted a pardon, but making very clear that they heard what the president said and making clear that that is something that they will be
sort of tracking going forward.
And so, you know, the question of the pardon is important because as Ghislaine Maxwell sits down there with Todd blanche, the question is what
she is trying to get out of it. You know, she's been appealing her sentence. She maintains her innocence. And there's sort of a thought that
she's not going to talk to Todd Blanche and give him all the information that he wants. If she is not getting something herself in return.
She's already been convicted. So, a plea agreement is not on the table.
[15:55:00]
What does seem to be on the table is some of these powers of presidential clemency, whether it's a pardon or commutation, that would allow her to
leave prison early. That in itself, I think, raises some questions about her own credibility. If she thinks that a pardon is on the table here, how
can you necessarily trust what she's saying is to be true? She's clearly trying to get something out of it. And the president's answer to that is
that he's known Todd Blanche for a long time, that Todd Blanche has been in some of these situations before, and that he trusts him to sort of
ascertain her trustworthiness in all of this.
KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. But certainly, a lot of questions around her credibility and to your point, what she'll get out of this in potentially,
you know, answering some of these questions in the way she determines is the right way to answer them.
Jeff Zeleny, certainly a lot of questions about that, but we are going to cover this at the top of the hour. Thanks so much, Jeff Zeleny outside the
White House.
I'm Lynda Kinkade. This is WHAT WE KNOW.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
END
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