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What We Know with Max Foster
Minneapolis School Shooting: Two Children Killed, 18 Other People Injured In Attack; Ukraine: At Least 21 People Killed In Russian Attack; CDC Director Fired By Trump Administration. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 28, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Calls for gun control grow louder in the U.S. after Wednesday's deadly school shooting in Minneapolis.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
This hour, we're expecting leaders in Minnesota to provide new details. A day after the deadly shooting of the Annunciation Catholic School. The
attack took the lives of two children and injured 18 more. A warning, these images may be disturbing when you watch them, a parent who rushed to the
church, a shared powerful video with CNN.
What you're looking at are the initial moments right after the gunfire erupted. Investigators believe the shooter, who graduated from Annunciation
in 2017, likely intended to keep attacking people from inside the church.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, certainly the shooter had been inside the church in the past. We believe, and it would
seem, from his intention to barricade at least the doors on the side, that that the shooter did intend to get inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, health care officials say one child is in critical condition amongst the patients still being treated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JON GAYKEN, TRAUMA SURGEON, HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER: We like to stand here as a hospital, just sort of quietly waiting and being ready for
whatever the hospital or the community needs. And unfortunately, yesterday is something that I didn't think I would ever have to be part of. So I
don't really have good words to describe it. Taking care of one child who's injured. It's difficult. Eight of them is nearly impossible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, this tragedy marks the 44th U.S. school shooting in 2025.
The Minneapolis mayor now calling for state and federal bans on assault weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACOB FREY, MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: We have every obligation, not just to each other, but to these families that call Minneapolis home. We love them.
Let's love them with more than words. Let's love them with the kind of action that will forever make the difference for people in our city. So,
the next go round, there's not another city two months from now that is saying the same thing. Let's stop this from happening. Let's stand up for
our children. Let's stand up for each and every one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem joins us now.
Thank you so much for joining us. I mean, we've been here before, haven't we? Frankly, things haven't changed in the past. There's no suggestion from
the White House. It's going to change this time.
Why do you think you know, the momentum after these events never keeps going and moves closer to gun reform?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, one is there just simply no political will. The Republican Party and the Trump
White House are not interested in gun control, and they will focus on issues around mental health or any other issue, motive, and not the issue
that links all of these shootings, which is access to weaponry that's going to kill school children relatively quickly.
I looked at what happened. And, I mean, I hate to say it, I can't believe the fatality rate was so low. I mean, they're barricaded in there. He's got
a pistol, an assault rifle and a handgun, presumably. And all of them purchased lawfully.
So, this is not an instance where, you know, how did he get access to it? So this will not. There will be no gun reform in the next three to four
years because the president will veto it. But what we -- what the two things we will see is, I think the mayors and, and the Democratic Party
push this, agenda. And secondly, maybe a focus also on what we would call community intervention policies, which would be things like red flag laws,
which allow people to essentially alert law enforcement or judges that that someone may be close to a mass shooting. And then there's some sort of
official intervention.
FOSTER: Which is interesting because that's been the debate here in Europe where the, you know, the gun crime rate is lower, but particularly with
school shootings, the discussion has been, you know, if you look back on these events, you can usually see that there's been a change in the person
ahead of this. It's just we're not very good at noticing it, registering it and calling it out. And there is some work to be done in that area, isn't
there? Because whenever you look back, there are signs.
[15:05:03]
KAYYEM: Yes. That's right. And the research around this, around the possibility for community interventions is quite good and quite strong. In
other words, you know, you can't prove a negative. But there are interventions that clearly helped stop or minimize the potential for harm
that people were alerting their community to. You know, we talk about lone wolf. So, this is just a guy or a girl or someone who was going through
something and they got guns. It's never that way.
If you look at this case and almost every case, they are alerting people. In this case, the killer is online, has manifestos, videos, is purchasing
lots of weaponry. The family and the community are noticing a significant change. There's a sort of, you know, speculation or appreciation of other
active shooters that is being done quite publicly.
All of those are pieces that if communities will engage and conceive of what they might view as the impossible, right, that like, oh, wow, this
person could really do this, we can -- we can begin to intervene more successfully.
Look, there's no -- there is no better cure in the United States than to get these weapons, particular type of weapon, the assault rifles off the
streets. But in the absence of that, because we have to be realistic, there are other policies that are showing, at least some fruitful activity, I
don't -- I don't love it. But we have to try to do something in the absence of gun reform.
FOSTER: Very often school shootings. It's a disgruntled former student or teacher.
KAYYEM: Yeah. Isn't it? Actually, I'm going to leave it there. We're going to come back to that because the press conference in Minneapolis has just
started.
O'HARA: As we continue to move along this difficult path of healing, I want the community to know that even in the face of evil, the Minneapolis
police department and all of our law enforcement partners collectively stand together with you. We stand with our families that have been affected
by this senseless violence, as well as with the parish community. We will continue to be here for all of you.
The men and women of the Minneapolis Police Department who responded yesterday did not hesitate. At 8:27 a.m., 911 began to receive initial
calls of shots being fired. By 8:31, a Minneapolis police officer in a regular uniform with no helmet, no SWAT gear ran into the church and was
met by a parishioner who directed him towards where the gunman had been. The parishioner later told me that was the first time that he, the children
and others there had any sense that they might be safe and survive.
The members that responded yesterday exemplified the motto that is on the Minneapolis police squad cars, to protect with courage and to serve with
compassion. All of our law enforcement partners, first responders and many children, members of the school staff and parishioners of Annunciation
Catholic Church, all showed incredible courage yesterday, in the face of unspeakable horror.
As the investigation continues, we will continue working alongside our county, state and federal law enforcement partners as we continue to be
critical as we piece together exactly what happened at this time. We have identified a total of 20 victims that had injuries resulting from gunfire,
including the eight- and ten-year-old who were killed yesterday. Fifteen of the injured are children between the ages of six and 15, three of those
injured are adults in their 80s.
Those who remain hospitalized need all of our support as we continue to pray for a speedy recovery for all of our victims. During the processing of
the scene at annunciation church yesterday, three shotgun shells were recovered, along with approximately 116 rifle rounds. One live round was
recovered from a handgun that appears to have malfunctioned as the shooter attempted to use it and became stuck in the chamber.
There were four search warrants that were executed yesterday, one at the church. The others were executed at residences believed to be associated
with the shooter. One of those residences was in the city of Minneapolis.
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A second one was in Richfield, and a third one was in St. Louis Park, which are both bordering municipalities. Additional evidence was recovered as a
result of these warrants. Literally, hundreds of pieces of evidence have been recovered thus far, which include electronic devices that will be
further searched and processed. It now becomes our job collectively with all of law enforcement to process that evidence.
And so, this investigation will continue and we will follow all of the evidence to its logical conclusion. I am aware, however, that this may not
ultimately provide the answers that our public is looking for. When something terrible happens, the public expects law enforcement to provide
some explanation for what happened, but the reality is this is an unthinkable, completely senseless act of violence perpetrated against
children worshiping at mass, and no investigation, no evidence will ever be able to make sense of such an unthinkable tragedy.
That being said, we will do our best to determine and identify a specific motive. What we have seen so far is this is an individual who,
unfortunately, like so many other mass shooters that we have seen in this country, too often and around the world, had some deranged fascination with
previous mass shootings and very disturbing writings that demonstrate hatred towards many different individuals and different groups of people.
And he fantasized about the plans of other mass shooters. Unfortunately, again, this has become all too common in our society.
That being said, we know ultimately the purpose of the shooter's actions was to obtain notoriety for the shooter themselves. That being said, I have
only said the name of this shooter once, and I'm asking members of the media to stop saying the shooters name. That was the whole purpose of why
he did this heinous act, to obtain that notoriety for themselves.
As schools in our city are beginning to start this week and next, we are working with all of our law enforcement partners, county sheriffs, state
troopers, and surrounding municipalities that are helping the city of Minneapolis, as we step up police presence both in and around schools and
around all of our houses of worship in the city. Many of our law enforcement partners are also supplementing patrols, and we could not be
more grateful.
This has truly been a collective effort in partnership with our community. We also must say that we will be forever in debt to all of the doctors,
nurses and paramedics who responded, who are caring for these victims in this incident. I cannot tell you how incredibly grateful we are for all of
the love and support that has been pouring in from all around the country, both for the first responders who initially responded entered that church
and dealt with the unthinkable. And for all of the victims and families that have received that love and support, as well.
The Minneapolis police department and our community have a long road ahead of us to heal, and we need everyone to continuing to show their support
after the cameras once again leave this city.
I would like to invite up the acting United States attorney for the District of Minnesota, Joe Thompson.
JOSEPH THOMPSON, ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA: Good afternoon. My name is Joe Thompson. I'm the acting United States attorney
for the District of Minnesota.
Yesterday, Minnesota was attacked. It was an attack first and foremost on our children and our families, an attack at a school in in a place of
worship. It was also an attack on our city, our state and our country.
The U.S. attorney's office, the FBI, ATF and other federal law enforcement are working with state and local partners to investigate this heinous act.
Our investigation is twofold. First, we are seeking to confirm what we believe to be true, which is that the shooter acted alone and that no one
else was involved, that the threat died with the shooter yesterday. We believe that to be true, but well leave no stone unturned to ensure the
safety of our community.
Second, we are investigating the motive. Why and how this happened. The shooter left behind hundreds of pages of writings -- writings that describe
the shooter's plan, writings that describe the shooter's mental state and more than anything, writings that describe the shooter's hate. Pure,
indiscriminate hate.
The shooter expressed hate towards almost every group imaginable. The shooter expressed hate towards black people. The shooter expressed hate
towards Mexican people. The shooter expressed hate towards Christian people. The shooter expressed hate towards Jewish people.
In short, the shooter appeared to hate all of us. The shooter's heart was full of hate.
There appears to be only one group that the shooter didn't hate. One group of people who the shooter admired, the group were the school shooters and
mass murderers that are notorious in this country. The shooter idolized some of the most notorious school shooters and mass murderers in our
country's history. I won't name them, just like I won't name the shooter. They don't deserve to have their names remembered.
As I said, the shooter left behind hundreds of pages of writings. There is a lot to digest, and we'll know more in the coming days and weeks as we've
had an opportunity to go through them. But reading them, one thing is clear, it's going to be hard to hear, but it's important to the question of
why this happened.
More than anything, the shooter wanted to kill children, defenseless children. The shooter was obsessed with the idea of killing children. The
shooter saw the attack as a way to target our most vulnerable among us, while they were at their most vulnerable at school and at church. I won't
dignify the shooter's words by repeating them. They are horrific and vile, but in short, the shooter wanted to watch children suffer.
Yesterday was a tragedy for the city and our state. My heart goes out to the entire Annunciation community. Their loss is unimaginable.
I want the state of Minnesota to know that when a tragedy like this occurs, we all stand together, federal, state, and local law enforcement work
together side by side. The FBI, the ATF, the BCA, Minneapolis Police Department, the Hennepin County sheriff's office, the Hennepin County
attorney's office, including their victim advocates who have been working with the families yesterday and today. The list goes on.
This has been a tough summer for Minnesota, but I take heart knowing that we all stand together in confronting this evil. Thank you.
I'll turn it back to Chief O'Hara.
O'HARA: A little bit for some questions and answer what we can.
REPORTER: The FBI Director Kash Patel put out some details today, including that there was a threat against President Trump, that there were
some messages, such as Israel must fall and free Palestine, and that it is being investigated as a hate crime. There's evidence of a hate crime. Can
you speak to what the FBI director as well?
THOMPSON: I've been talked to Director Patel, but certainly, there's evidence of hate. As I mentioned, the shooter expressed hate towards many
groups, including the Jewish community and including President Trump. So obviously, as in most cases, where there's a mass shooting at a house of
worship or a school, federal law enforcement will work with state and local law enforcement to investigate, to make sure what happened. We know what
happened, and we prosecute as appropriate.
O'HARA: I would just add to that, Matt, that there is no question in this case that this shooter intended to terrorize the children, the school,
school members of the school community, the parishioners were inside of that church. So whatever label we want to put on it is, is almost -- is
regardless of the fact that it is very clear that this shooter had the intention to terrorize those innocent children. Sorry.
REPORTER: One of the manifestos, I guess, mentions a belief that the shooter was under an FBI investigation. Does anyone able to say whether or
not that's true or whether this person showed up on any watch list or any federal radar at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, we did a check of all of our holdings, the FBI holdings. And he was not in our holdings prior to this incident.
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So, we didn't have anything on him at that time.
REPORTER: Okay. And is there any kind of mental health diagnosis that anyone is aware of?
O'HARA: There is no diagnosis that I'm aware of that I can share. I can tell you we are not aware of any state-ordered mental health commitments
for this individual.
REPORTER: Could you talk about some new details come out about the moments inside the church?
O'HARA: Yes.
REPORTER: About the doors being locked. Now that was protected, could you talk to us about that?
O'HARA: So, the question was about the doors being locked at the church. Annunciation Church had a practice that once mass began, they locked the
doors of the church. This incident occurred shortly after the mass was beginning. So there's no question that the fact that the doors were locked
likely saved additional lives. At the same time, we also know that the shooter intended to barricade and barricade the doors on the same side of
the church where the shooting occurred.
So, what's particularly heinous and cowardly about this is these children were slaughtered by a shooter who could not see them. He was standing
outside of the building, firing through very narrow church windows on the level where they would line up with the pews. And even ultimately, when he
got to the rear of the church was an entryway that's, you know, basically all glass and fired out the window where a person could walk in, ultimately
did not walk in.
Yes.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) lock is up from the inside or from the outside, or inside, and you can get out, but you can't get in from the outside.
O'HARA: The question is about the doors being locked. Yes, the doors were locked intentionally by the church from the inside, and that's a practice
that they had in place once mass had begun.
REPORTER: I think his social media postings, troubling post, admiration for previous school shooters. Why was he able to obtain a weapon of that
magnitude?
O'HARA: So, the question was due to previous social media posts, why was the individual able to obtain a weapon? We have nothing in the evidence
that we have acquired so far that would indicate that he is a person -- that he did not lawfully purchase these weapons. He did not have a criminal
history. The only thing that we are aware of is a traffic ticket. He did not have any state ordered commitments for mental health.
So, of everything that we have seen so far, it did not rise to the level where he would have been a person prohibited from purchasing a firearm.
REPORTER: Can you -- can you confirm if the shooter went to the church weeks prior, and if so, how long before the shooting happened?
O'HARA: So, question was, if the shooter did go to the church weeks prior. We cannot specifically confirm that at this time, but that is obviously a
part of the investigation.
REPORTER: Do you know all about his connection to the church and school?
O'HARA: Yeah. So, the question was the connection of the shooter to the church and school. We do know that the shooter did attend mass there
previously. The shooter did attend school, and the shooter's mother was an employee of the parish previously for some time. So obviously, there is a
connection between that shooter and this particular parish and this school there.
REPORTER: Chief, what can you tell us about the 20th victim that you mentioned, another victim you mentioned today? How is that child doing?
O'HARA: So there's one additional child that was injured by gunfire that we weren't aware of at the time of the last briefing. They were transported
by private vehicle to a hospital outside of the city. And the report was actually made to police after they had been treated and released.
So, the injuries to the children range from, in this case I guess you'd call it a graze wound from gunfire all to, again, some very serious, life-
threatening injuries. We have -- we have some victims that have been released by the hospital at this time. We anticipate perhaps a few more
today, but we still have, some victims who are very seriously injured and in critical condition.
REPORTER: Even though there's no criminal record -- even though there's no criminal record, have been able to find any police contacts where there was
odd behavior, maybe that didn't rise to the level of a crime. But in any jurisdiction that's come up.
O'HARA: So, the question was police contacts with odd behavior. There's nothing in Minneapolis where we did not have previous police contacts with
him.
REPORTER: Is there anything more you can say today on the name change issue? I know that yesterday you didn't confirm that, but I know it's out
there. Is there any more you can reveal just about.
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O'HARA: Yes. So, the question was about the shooter's name change. We are aware that a few years ago, I think 2019, the shooter did have their name
changed. We can confirm that. Yes.
REPORTER: I know you kind of asked it, and the FBI spokesperson talked about it, too, had any law enforcement you found made contact with the
shooter's family previously to what happened yesterday?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can try. Hi, everybody. I'm Drew Evans, superintendent, Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. It depends on
specifically what you're asking.
We're aware of some reports in the past. We are gathering those reports now. There will be additional information that we'll be able to share down
the line. But as the chief noted, and we think what is important in this and related to the question, this individual was not arrested for anything
that would prohibit them from being able to purchase a firearm. There is not a substantive police contact with this individual that would have
raised concern to the level that would lead us to believe this sort of a situation would happen today.
The social media, in terms of your question for that, just to be clear, the level set for everybody, there is a specific criteria in terms of how an
individual can purchase a firearm legally in Minnesota. If those posts and information, I'll share it to for everybody that we want to know going
forward. This obviously is a terrible tragedy.
We need the help of the public and everybody else. If there's concerning social media behavior by anybody or that there's concern in their community
that they are contacting their law enforcement so that we can adequately address that in the process, that did not happen in this case.
REPORTER: So, is there evidence found with a search warrant? Were you able to recover additional guns, and if so, were those registered and also
legally purchased?
O'HARA: So, the question was in regard to the search warrant, were additional weapons recovered? The answer is no. Only the three weapons that
were recovered at the scene, a 5.56 millimeter rifle, a shotgun and a pistol. And all three were used during this incident.
REPORTER: Any history of gun training? Because the shooter seemed fairly accurate.
O'HARA: We're not aware of at this time any history of gun training.
REPORTER: Any evidence that you have recovered, has the shooter expressed any grievance against that particular church?
O'HARA: No, we haven't found. No.
So the question was any specific grievance against the church, we mentioned there is a connection to the parish, a connection to the school, but we
have not identified a triggering event or a specific grievance against the church that you could point to to say this is the reason for why this
happened.
REPORTER: Chief, I just want to clarify something you said. Did you say the shooter attended mass in the weeks before the shooting?
O'HARA: I did not say that. So, the question was, did the shooter attend mass in the weeks before? We know that previously, the shooter had attended
that parish and had attended that school when they were younger?
REPORTER: Is there anything you know, any evidence that this person was radicalized or part of some online groups or anything like that that would
have inspired this behavior?
O'HARA: So the question was if the individual was radicalized, I guess, for a specific cause or a part of some online groups. And the answer is no,
we have not found evidence of that. Other than, again, just this fascination in general with many, many different previous mass shootings,
mainly in this country, but also some from around the world.
REPORTER: Any evidence to indicate why this particular church, just to kind of follow up on what others ask, why this particular church was chosen
as the target and not somewhere else.
O'HARA: So Matt's question is the question, why this particular church? And other than the obvious, which we have said, the connection to being
from that church, being from that school, mom having worked there, we have not found a specific trigger for why to target the children at this church.
REPORTER: On that note, though, that the shooter seem aware that there was going to be this mass at this time, that the kids would be there at that
time. So other than the obvious that he showed up and shot.
O'HARA: So the question was, did the shooter be aware? Was the shooter aware of this mass at this church? The answer would be yes. This was a
daily mass, but this was special in that the children were attending to celebrate the first week of school, the beginning of a new school year.
REPORTER: Chief, are you able to give us an update? I know we heard this from HCMC this morning on the injuries. Who's hospitalized? How many
severity? And you did mention that you expect some other kids to be released.
O'HARA: So the question was total number of victims who remain hospitalized. I do not have information that would have to come
specifically from the individual hospitals. Again, I know that some victims have been released, and I believe HCMC mentioned at their press conference
earlier that they anticipate a couple more, maybe released today. But I know both at HCMC as well as children's hospital, that there remain
patients who are in critical condition.
REPORTER: Do you have more than 24 hours to kind of absorb this and kind of process this? Your thoughts on this? As you can see, where we are right
now.
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O'HARA: So, the question was over the last 24 hours, for my thoughts on where we are and moving forward. I think we had dozens of police officers
that responded that entered their -- I shared a story that one parishioner had shared with me of the relief they had seeing an officer running in
towards the danger.
And I know from dozens of officers who did respond that ran into the church and saw the unthinkable with all of these children so seriously injured and
other children that had blood on them from, not because they were injured, but because of blood that was shared from other kids. And just how
confusing it was for the officers, because no one knew if there was specifically just one shooter, if there were perhaps improvised devices
that were there to go off.
So, I think the officers, that were then joined by state troopers and county sheriff's deputies and all of federal law enforcement officers and
others that responded very, very quickly. And I just think did an incredible job at trying to ensure that the threat was eliminated. There
were no additional threats, but also trying to triage as quickly as possible. And get the injured to the hospital.
And I think EMS, all the first responders did an amazing job. And I think going forward, were going to learn countless stories. About many children
and the heroic acts that children there did, as well as staff members and other parishioners.
So, I know this is, you know, incredibly horrific. And just an unthinkable situation, but despite all of that, I think there's just -- there's going
to be countless lessons of bravery from young children all the way up to elders in our community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We'll take one more, perhaps from somebody who's not yet had a chance.
REPORTER: Chief, have you spoken?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that you?
REPORTER: I think I have, but have you got one. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Yeah. Have you guys, spoken with the shooter's parents? And have they said anything about past mental health history? And do you guys, as law
enforcement, believe there might have been any red flags that might have been missed?
O'HARA: So, the question was, have we spoken to the shooter's parents? And if there were any red flags that may have been missed?
I know there were dozens of interviews that have been conducted with relatives, friends, associates of the shooter, as well as people,
obviously, individuals, witnesses that were present at the scene yesterday. I know we have not been successful in talking to the shooter's mother yet
at this time. But there continue to be efforts made to get that done.
REPORTER: Did you talk to the father?
O'HARA: I cannot confirm that. I just -- I don't know. There's been -- you have. Okay.
REPORTER: Did he live alone or did he live with his father?
O'HARA: Well, the question was, did he live alone or live with his father? There's three residences that are associated with this individual. I can't
verify right now which residence he was staying at immediately prior to the shooting, but that's obviously something that will come out with the
investigation as it continues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your question?
REPORTER: Can you say how long the shooter attended the school and what grades?
O'HARA: I don't know. Yeah. So, the question was, how long did the shooter attend --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High school.
O'HARA: Okay. I don't know the period of time exactly.
REPORTER: Is there surveillance video available? Not that we want to see it, but that you can review to know, like, how long he was shooting and how
he snuck out and stuff like that?
O'HARA: So, the question was, is there surveillance video? And the answer is yes. There's surveillance video at the church. Thats how we know for
sure he did not enter and did not fire at all from inside the church.
REPORTER: Do you know how long the shooting took place?
O'HARA: We will know that for sure. The question was, how long did the shooting take place? So, the first call to 911 was --
REPORTER: I just mean, like the shots being fired for how many seconds or minutes?
O'HARA: Yes. We will be able to figure that out. We will be able to pinpoint that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks so much for your time today. You're quite hot. Thank you, chief. A lot more yet to get done today. So I appreciate again
your partnership in helping us get these messages out. Thank you.
FOSTER: The latest update there from Minneapolis police talking about several victims still in hospital. Some are critical. Some are likely to be
released today, which is good news. But the most important, people involved in this two dead, obviously, and some are still critical.
So, the essential update there in terms of the investigation, no triggering event from what they can understand for this shooter, but associations with
the church and the school.
[15:35:01]
The shooter went to the school, the shooter's mother worked at the school.
Interestingly, they haven't been able to speak to the shooter's mother as yet, but they have been to the shooter's home. Three of -- three homes
because, it appears the mother and the father lived in different locations. The father has been spoken to.
But endless writings, as we understand it, which are very telling and obsession with previous mass murderers and school shooters, and a general
level of hate targeted towards Mexicans, Christians, Jews, the police there saying that the one overriding thing that was apparent is that this shooter
hated all of us. Donald Trump also apparently mentioned in these notes, but amid a whole load of other groups and people as well. So not a specific
Donald Trump target. Note as we understand it, from that briefing, but certainly mentioned as part of that.
Juliette was watching that with us.
And, Juliette, it's got the feeling of a lone wolf here because they're not looking for anyone else. And this shooter didn't seem to have any apparent
connection with other groups they're saying
KAYYEM: That's exactly right. Except he had a connection to history and to act mass shooters and school shooters who he was obsessed with. I think
that is what is clear.
And it's a -- it was a, for American audiences. It was a somewhat odd press conference because in the background you had FBI Director Patel tweeting
that this is a hate crime and all sorts of things. And, but in this presser, I think they were trying to essentially say this was a person who
just was filled with rage, and took it out at this particular place. So we don't know what kind of crime is committed.
I will say, I looked at the manifesto the killer actually highlights essentially far right killers. And so that's a part of the ideology, the
anti-black, the anti-Mexican, the anti-Jewish, statements that were relayed by the acting U.S. attorney in the press conference. That is consistent
with, of course, far right shooters. So, so maybe it's just a hodgepodge of hate that we're looking at.
So that was the first piece is that we're still not sure what the motivation is. But its worth saying that in the manifesto, the right-wing
killers are highlighted.
FOSTER: Yeah.
KAYYEM: I -- just one other thing. It is also clear the mother is not talking. And as we were talking before the presser who knew what in terms
of this growing threat is part of this investigation, and I am -- I have become -- go ahead.
FOSTER: No, it's remarkable that no one was aware, considering the amount of writings there talking about. It appears across three different
properties. One of the other things, I think it was the acting attorney general was referring to was that one thing was very clear. The shooter
wanted to kill defenseless children obsessed with that specific idea, a way to target the most vulnerable, whilst they are at their most vulnerable, at
school and in church. And in short, they wanted to watch children suffer.
KAYYEM: Yeah, that's the sense of power and also notoriety that animates a lot of these mass shootings. So, the power is the victim is completely, I
mean, beyond, innocent and also is quite vulnerable. So -- and a remarkable that, you know, remarkable series of events that stopped this from getting
worse as we now understand it, the second is school shooters, particularly those who target children. Both internationally and domestically in the
United States become household names to this network of hate and people who are online, who are getting radicalized.
And so, it's clear that this shooter, wanted to be in the same, you know, same network of the worst of the worst, and that is -- and that's what --
and that's what they wanted, and that's what it's why it's our responsibility not to give them that, they will become famous in the
network of hate. But we don't have to help that.
FOSTER: Yeah. I mean, the police chief saying while they haven't got a motive, he was very clear to say the purpose was to obtain notoriety, as
you've indicated, asking members of the media to stop saying the shooter's name. I mean, throughout the show, we haven't mentioned the name.
[15:40:04]
I mean, what's your advice to the media as a member of the media on this? Because, you know, you've got to have sympathy for that view, haven't you,
when they're saying that the motivation for this was notoriety and an obsession with previous notorious killers. There is a link there. So, if we
can help prevent the notoriety, I guess we've all got a role to play in that.
KAYYEM: That's exactly right. And I've changed on this. I will say, several years ago I thought it was important to highlight the name and to
make sure that we understood what was going on. But this type of mass shooting, where the goal is, is, is the killing and like, and the death, he
knew he was going to die is we don't -- we have no responsibility, in fact, to help it, to help what their goal is. And certainly, we do have a
responsibility to listen to what the community wants.
And, you know, we're news agency. We say the name as a matter of fact, about who this person was. But it's not something that we need to dive deep
into. And we want to treat these killers as the -- as the sort of nothings that they really are.
And I have come to believe that over time, I was again. I always was for saying the name. And now, unfortunately, that's what they want. And so, we
shouldn't feel we give it to them.
FOSTER: Well, over that time, you know, things have changed, haven't they? And motivations have changed. The media has changed as well.
So, thank you for your insights on that, Juliette.
We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Germany's chancellor is not optimistic about the prospects for peace in Ukraine. Alongside French leader Emmanuel Macron, Friedrich Merz
said that talks between Presidents Putin and Zelenskyy will obviously not happen.
[15:45:08]
That's following the second largest aerial attack since Moscow's full-scale invasion three and a half years ago. Ukrainian officials say at least 21
people were killed, amongst them four children, the youngest just two years old. Buildings belonging to the European Union and the British Council were
hit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: I'm outraged by the attack on Kyiv, also hitting our E.U. offices. This was the deadliest drone
and missile attack on the capital since July. And as you can see behind me on the screen, it was an attack also on our delegation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Earlier, the White House was asked about the president's reaction to the aerial assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He was not happy about this news, but he was also not surprised. These are two countries that have been
at war for a very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: So what we want to know is, are Ukraine-Russia peace talks in tatters?
Joining me now is Jill Dougherty, the former CNN Moscow bureau chief.
Thanks for joining us, Jill.
I guess we could even ask, did they even -- were they even a thing in the first place?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that is the question, Max. You know where they stand right now. If you look at this attack and it really was,
you know, major, almost 600 drones and 34 missiles. So it's just a pretty overwhelming.
And so, to say that there is any type of peace process, at least from what we can see, it does appear to be stalled. Now, there could be some type of
talks, you know, behind the scenes and on the European, American-European side with Ukraine, they have been talking about these security guarantees
and that the big question about that is how do you do it? You know, how do you get observers, which would be military? Who are they? Where are they?
What are the rules of engagement, et cetera.?
So, they're trying to work out those details. But if you look at the Russian side, if you look at Vladimir Putin, there is no indication that he
is ready to even sit down or to end this type of vicious attack.
FOSTER: He seems to have been ignoring everything that Donald Trump has been saying to him. What the Europeans have been pushing for and this idea
of, you know, meeting with Zelenskyy. Do you think it was even something he vaguely considered?
DOUGHERTY: You know, I think that this is sadly kind of a the Russian approach, which is they say, yes, we want to get to peace eventually. But
when it gets down to the details, for instance, meeting with Zelenskyy, they continue to trot out that incorrect statement that Zelenskyy is not a
legitimate leader of Ukraine.
And so, at many different points, Russia rhetorically will say, yes, we're on board. But when it comes down to actually agreeing to something or even
adhering to some of the things that President Trump has been talking about, they don't do it. So, I -- sadly, I am not quite sure where we go from
here.
Certainly, there are people on the European side who are saying, we just have to increase the pressure on Putin, but at this point, you know, that
doesn't seem to be working either. Others would say it has to be a military approach, and for that you need, again, more coordination with the United
States.
FOSTER: But there is a lot further the U.S. can go in terms of sanctions, can't they? They could go all the way and that would put pressure on
Russia.
Theoretically, it would. And we know, of course, that the United States has invoked secondary sanctions on India. So, the tariffs on India are
extremely high right now, roughly 50 percent. They haven't done anything about Russia, which was something that President Trump was threatening to
do. He has not done that.
And no tariffs on China in connection with Ukraine. So, there are more things that could be done but they're not being done. So, you know, the
administration has to make up its mind about what it is going to do next. But there is some -- there's rhetoric. I mean, you've heard from the White
House in that bite that you played just a few minutes ago. You know, the president is not happy.
Well, you know, we've heard that many times. But what does that mean? What will be is there any decision by President Trump to push and act on the
things that he himself has talked about?
FOSTER: There'll be an interesting moment next week, wont there, with Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, actually a military parade in Beijing
because that's the other axis that a lot of people are seeing here.
[15:50:05]
And as long as Russia is in a good position with China, they can probably keep going without the West's help.
DOUGHERTY: It is, I think, an interesting moment. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization, SCO has expanded and China's in it. India's in it. Iran is in
it.
All of those countries actually that have been helping Vladimir Putin prosecute this war. So I'm not quite sure precisely what will come out of
it. Some observers who really do know that organization say it could be just more PR, but the pr does at least the Kremlin hopes, will stress that
President Putin, President Putin, is no longer a pariah.
He's back on the stage. He's in meeting in China with these other members of the SCO. And it's meant to send a message, but also to, I think recharge
the relationship in terms of trade. You know, Russia and China have 200 -- I think it's 240. Some billion dollars of trade, but it's been falling
since January. That 8 percent. So, they want to bring that back.
And obviously, I think they would have to talk about what is next in Ukraine. I'm sure China will be interested in talking about that because
rhetorically, again, so much of it is words. But they've been on board with certain extent, but they haven't really done everything that Russia might
want them to do in regard to Ukraine. So, this will be a, you know, a significant but not -- I don't think earth-changing meeting in China.
FOSTER: No. Okay. Jill, really appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much for joining us from Washington, D.C.
Now, one of the most important health agencies in the U.S. is without a leader today. This after Dr. Susan Monarez was ousted from her role as the
head of the CDC.
Several of her top lieutenants at the CDC have resigned in protest to that move and were escorted out of agencies -- out of the agency on Thursday
morning. Monarez was fired by HHS. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. There are reports that Dr. Monarez has clashed with Kennedy over vaccine
policies.
Let's get some more from CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard.
Worrying to see this very important organization, Jacqueline, rudderless right now.
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, Max, first, I'll just tell you, here at CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia, moments ago, we saw
dozens and dozens of employees walk out in solidarity with Dr. Monarez who was just ousted with and support of those top four CDC officials who are
leaving the agency in solidarity. And we saw dozens and dozens of CDC employees lining the streets here, clapping in support and with solidarity
with those officials.
So, Max, when you think about everything the CDC has been through since the beginning of the year, just months ago, in the spring, we saw sweeping job
cuts at the agency. Just weeks ago, we saw a shooting active shooter incident here at the CDC where 500 bullets were shot towards the
headquarters and where, sadly, a police officer, DeKalb County Officer David Rose, lost his life.
Those are the things that just recently happened here at the CDC. And now, we're seeing a lot of uncertainty, a lot of chaos around the leadership.
And yet dozens of employees just held and staged a walkout ceremony in solidarity with those officials who have announced they're leaving. And
with solid in solidarity with Dr. Monarez.
So that's the environment that we're seeing here at the agency today, as we see a lot of this turmoil happening at the moment -- Max.
FOSTER: Yeah. You wonder what the White House response will be to that. I mean, going on past experience, they'll just let people walk, won't they?
Instead of trying to convince them to come back.
HOWARD: It is interesting, what -- yes, we are curious to see what the response will be after this. But I will say developing overnight, here's
what the White House said in a statement when it did announce that Dr. Monarez was ousted, the White House did say, quote, Susan Monarez is not
aligned with the president's agenda of making America healthy again. Since Susan Monarez refused to resign despite informing HHS leadership of her
intent to do so, the White House has terminated from her position with the CDC.
[15:55:03]
So that's the latest statement we've heard from the White House. But in response to that, Max, Dr. Monarez has said she's been following the
science and she wants to stay in the director role. So, we are seeing this this kind of back and forth happening at the moment around CDC leadership.
And I will tell you, Max, I spoke with some current CDC employees who were out on the streets demonstrating their support for Dr. Monarez and for
other top officials today. And they told me that they admire Dr. Monarez's strength. They said that they themselves are dedicated to following the
science.
And they hope that that is shown in the dedication they made today in support of Dr. Monarez and other officials.
FOSTER: Health reporter Jacqueline Howard, amid extraordinary scenes there in Atlanta. Thank you so much.
I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Richard up next.
END
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