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What We Know with Max Foster

Source: Israel And Hamas Have Made "Progress" In Talks; Israel Marks Two Years Since Hamas' October 7 Attack; Canadian PM Carney Meets Trump At The White House; U.S. Government Shutdown Triggers Airport Delays, Disruptions; National Guard Troops From Texas Arrive In Illinois. Aired 3- 4p ET

Aired October 07, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:28]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: A possible breakthrough in the Middle East on a somber anniversary.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

During a day of mourning in Israel, there's a glimmer of hope. We could soon see an end to the war in Gaza and the return of those remaining

hostages. A source tells CNN, Israel and Hamas have made progress during the first two days of ceasefire negotiations in Egypt, and the U.S.

delegation led by Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff will join the talks on Wednesday.

Israel today marking a somber milestone two years since the Hamas attack that led to a war that's enacted a tremendous toll on both Israelis and

Palestinians, 1,200 people were killed and 250 others kidnapped that day. Right now, a memorial ceremony for victims of the attack is underway in Tel

Aviv. It's one of several ceremonies being held across Israel for grieving families and their supporters.

Now, 48 hostages are still being held by Hamas, with 20 of those presumed to be alive. Family members of as they've been from the beginning, are

calling for their return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOHAR AVIGDORI, RELATIVE OF RELEASED HOSTAGES SHARON & NOAM AVIGDORI: We are today making it very clear once again, sadly, that this should be the

top priority and that they all should return immediately. And as a result of that, also ending the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Here's CNN's Jeremy Diamond, then on how October the 7th and this devastating war have defined Israeli society over the past two years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For two years, they have been fighting, for sons taken hostage, for daughters killed at a

music festival, and for the future of a country at a crossroads. Two years later, Hamas' October 7th attack and the war it unleashed still define this

small country.

Vicki Cohen knows that all too well.

Hello, Vicki, hi.

(voice-over): Her son is still being held in Gaza, and she is at the forefront of the hostage family's movement, demonstrating in front of the

prime minister's home, inside parliament and in weekly Saturday night protests.

This is another Saturday night.

VICKI COHEN, MOTHER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE: Yeah, but it feels different.

DIAMOND: Feels different know.

COHEN: Yeah.

DIAMOND (voice-over): On the night we join her, the whole country is buzzing about a possible deal to free all of the hostages.

COHEN: It's a mix of feelings. It's excitement, its expectation, it's also fear.

DIAMOND (voice-over): This video shows the moment that changed everything. Her 19-year-old son, Nimrod, conscripted for mandatory military service,

being pulled from an Israeli tank on the Gaza border and taken captive.

This is the Rubik's cube that was in the tank.

COHEN: -- one that was found in the tank. Used to take it wherever he goes.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Heading to another rally, Cohen cannot help but feel hopeful. But she is determined to keep fighting.

COHEN: We will still fight and do everything we did before, until it's settled, until it's final, until they are at home.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Cohen wasn't always at the forefront of the protest movement, but she ramped up her fight after losing faith in her government.

COHEN: -- so many other families realized that we need to be more polite, less polite, and be more aggressive with the fight --

DIAMOND (voice-over): She soon realized she had real power.

COHEN: I heard for so many people who told me, I heard you, and you are asking and you are calling for us to come, and we will come. We are coming

because of you. This is so important.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Israelis are where Vicki found her voice, and where she found a community to fight alongside.

Saturday nights in Israel have represented a chance for the hostage families to raise their voices week after week, with the support of so many

Israelis. Vicki and her son are just about to go on stage.

(voice-over): Today, I was filled with excitement, anticipation and great hope, but also, she tells the crowd concern. The Israeli prime minister was

speaking while Vicki was on stage.

COHEN: Did Netanyahu say something.

DIAMOND: Yeah. He said that he hopes they can be returned during Sukkot.

COHEN: The hostages?

DIAMOND: Said the goal is to limit negotiations to a few days. He doesn't want it to be dragged out.

SIGAL MANSURI, DAUGHTERS KILLED ON OCTOBER 7TH: They thought they were going to be safe here.

[15:05:00]

DIAMOND (voice-over): Sigal and Menashe Mansuri are also still fighting.

S. MANSURI: We just know that they went to a festival and they never came back. And we do know that their last couple hours were --

MENASHE MANSURI, DAUGHTERS KILLED ON OCTOBER 7TH: Hell.

S. MANSURI: Were hell.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Two years after their daughters were slaughtered inside this bomb shelter, they are fighting for answers and accountability.

M. MANSURI: We're looking for is the truth.

S. MANSURI: We want to know the truth in a legal way, in a decent way, in a respective way. We want to know what led us to October 7th. We want to

know how come the IDF didn't respond for so many hours.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The couple helped found the October Council pushing for an independent commission of inquiry to investigate Israel's failures

that helped lead to October 7th.

DIAMOND: But two years later, can you believe that you still have to fight for all this? Did you think this fight would last?

S. MANSURI: No.

DIAMOND: This long?

S. MANSURI: No, you know what? It's even more than that. I didn't think that we'll have to fight for this.

DIAMOND (voice-over): But the Israeli Prime Minister has refused, claiming the commission would be biased.

S. MANSURI: When you have nothing to hide. You just how come you so against it? I mean, why are you trying to fight it?

DIAMOND: Do you believe that a state commission of inquiry will ever be set up while Prime Minister Netanyahu remains in office?

M. MANSURI: No.

S. MANSURI: Most likely, and unfortunately no.

M. MANSURI: Country, the State of Israel, need to have the truth about what happens.

S. MANSURI: Along the border where Hamas militants stormed into Israel. The devastation wrought by Israel's subsequent attacks on Gaza is

unmistakable.

Here the fight for Israel's character and its future are also on display.

SAPIR SLUZKER AMRAN, ISRAELI ACTIVIST: We came to the fence today, as close as we can to Gaza to say that not all Israelis support the genocide.

Not all Israelis are supporting the starvation of Gaza.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Others have come to see and revel in the destruction.

RAFAEL HEMO, ISRAELI CITIZEN: It is not -- supposed to be next to us here.

DIAMOND: So, you want Gaza razed to the ground?

HEMO: No Gaza.

DIAMOND: No Gaza?

HEMO: Only building. I see couple buildings there, or it's healthy. I want this flat. If you ask me -- to be in the base here, you're welcome.

DIAMOND: Some would say that's genocide, or that's ethnic cleansing.

HEMO: No, it's not genocide.

DIAMOND (voice-over): For Vicki Cohen, whether Israel prioritizes a deal to free the hostages or a forever war in Gaza will also define its future.

COHEN: It's a fight of something bigger than to release the hostages. It's something very basic that of the Jewish community here in Israel, that we

care for each other, we don't sacrifice the lives for the land --

DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: We have a lot more coverage of the anniversary later in the show. I'm going to speak to the mother of a returned Israeli hostage and a former

Palestinian negotiator about the talks in Egypt, currently underway.

To Washington now, though, where Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney is meeting with President Donald Trump at the White House. It's the prime

minister's second such visit, and it's expected to focus largely on economic matters, specifically, President Trump's tariffs.

The meeting comes amid strained relations between the two countries over the tariffs and President Trump's threats to make Canada the 51st U.S.

state.

Today, Trump again suggested that the United States ultimately wants to annex Canada. And he made it clear he views the long-allied countries as

economic competitors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want Canada to do great. But you know, there's a point at which we also want the same business.

We're competing for the same business. That's the problem. That's why I keep mentioning one way to solve that problem is a very easy way. But we're

competing for the same business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: We've got team coverage of these developments.

Kevin Liptak is at the White House. Paula Newton has been traveling with Mr. Carney today and is at the Canadian embassy in Washington.

Paula, I mean, Carney getting to become a bit of an expert on this.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He really is. I wouldn't say it was a masterclass, but look, any leader right now looking at the scene in the

Oval Office would say he's done well. Two out of two for him. I mean, look, Max, the environment in there is a bit like a rhetorical wrestling ring.

Now, Mark Carney didn't get much of a word in, but that's not the point.

The point is, the president clearly has a rapport with Prime Minister Carney, and a lot of that does have to do with the fact that they talk on

the phone, they text each other, they have a constant line of communication to each other. Does that mean the candidate is getting a better deal

economically? Absolutely not. And that is the kind of criticism that Prime Minister Mark Carney will face at home.

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Listen, the meeting just wrapped. I -- the office will not confirm it, but I'm going to guess from where I saw the direction that the prime minister

is headed, that he will now be up on Capitol Hill. And that is the kind of lobbying when it comes to these tariffs anywhere in the world that is

important here. You need to get to those states, those governors, those senators, those representatives who really can pull some levers at the

White House and say, look, these tariffs are hurting our communities. They're hurting our states. That is the kind of full court press that Mark

Carney will be putting on here in the coming hours.

In terms of his meeting with President Trump, no real deliverables. I mean, nothing really went on there. But, you know, as I always say, first, do no

harm and we will see what happens in the coming months.

One thing is for sure, that free trade deal that Canada and Mexico had with the United States, it is gone. They will be renegotiating it next year. And

I would guess it will look nothing like the original agreement. That was in fact negotiated by President Trump and his first term.

FOSTER: Okay, Paula, thank you so much.

Kevin, the big domestic matter seemed to be this idea around the shutdown that federal workers won't get back pay if they go back to their jobs after

the shutdown.

I'm just going to hear what President Trump said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of

our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way. Okay? Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Saying that it depends who we're talking about. This speaks to this idea that perhaps it's going to target Democrats supporters or anti-

MAGA people. What's the idea there.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. And that seems to be the implication because remember the White House has been threatening

permanent layoffs as part of this shutdown. They say that they're going to cut programs that don't align with the president's agenda. And this idea of

potentially not paying some workers who are furloughed is sort of the latest step in the White House's efforts to try and put pressure on

Democrats to agree to a deal that would reopen the government.

The president didn't specifically say who wouldn't receive back pay. I was in Norfolk at the naval station over the weekend. He was pretty explicit

there that the sailors who were not receiving pay during the shutdown would eventually be repaid, given that they had to work throughout all of this.

And so, the president is leaving a lot kind of vague there.

He did sign a law back in 2019 when he was in office the first time around that people assumed guaranteed that workers would receive back pay during a

shutdown. But what is happening right now is that the president's budget office is sort of going back through that law, drafting a memo that

suggests that maybe, perhaps that guarantee isn't as ironclad as many people assumed it to be.

I do think the politics here are going to be a little tricky. The White House seems to be wagering that by saying this and putting this threat out

there, that it will bring Democrats to the table and sort of coerce them into agreeing to reopen the government. The fear, I think, will be that the

White House actually follows through on this threat.

You know, it will only be sort of a good sort of coercion tactic if they're willing to follow through on this. And I think the prospect of them coming

up with ways to not pay people who are working could be very difficult for them politically. And that's certainly all part of the calculation, I

think, underway right now.

FOSTER: Okay. Kevin, Paula, thank you both for following that for us.

Now, the newly elected mayor of a town in western Germany is fighting for her life right now after a stabbing attack. Iris Stalzer was airlifted to a

nearby hospital after being stabbed outside her home on Tuesday. German media say she's in critical condition and suffered wounds to her neck and

abdomen. Stalzer was elected mayor less than two weeks ago, would you believe. Police haven't yet made any arrests in that attack.

Coming up, a day of mourning in Israel as it remembers lives lost and families torn apart by events two years ago. We'll talk to the mother of a

released hostage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:09]

FOSTER: More now on our top story. The nation of Israel came to a standstill today to mark a somber anniversary. It was two years ago that

Hamas launched a deadly terror attack that triggered a war that changed Israel and Gaza forever. Memorial sirens rang out in Israel today to honor

the victims. Twelve hundred people were killed and 251 others were kidnaped in that Hamas attack, 20 hostages are presumed to be still alive.

Hundreds gathered in hostages square to continue the push for their release, as talks on the U.S. ceasefire plan take place over in Egypt.

Romi Gonen was one of the Israeli hostages taken that day on January the 19th. This year, she was returned to her family as part of the first phase

of a hostage deal between Israel and Hamas.

Romi's mother, Meirav Leshem Gonen, still advocates today for the hostages left in Gaza, and she joins us now.

Thank you so much for joining us, particularly on such a difficult day. But I know the reason you're doing it is because you want to remind people of

what happened that day on -- in that October.

I mean, how fresh is it in your mind? What do you think of most today about that day?

MEIRAV LESHEM GONEN, MOTHER OF RELEASED HOSTAGE ROMI GONEN: Well, you know, it's fresh every morning. It's like we are waking up into the 7th of

October each morning for more than 732 days. This is how it feels. I can still hear the voice of my daughter when she called me the last time before

she was kidnapped at 10:14, and she was saying, mommy, I was shot, I'm bleeding and I think I'm going to die. Gaya, her best friend, is not

answering anymore, and the driver was already murdered.

And this is how we started the talk in the sound is still in my, you know, in my ear. So, it's every day, each morning. But we are waking up. We're

going out of the bed, and we're doing everything we can to rescue our brothers and sisters back from hell into Israel.

FOSTER: Yeah, well, our thoughts are with all of the families and the survivors and the victims today. You talked about your daughter being

injured. That must have been a horrifying worry for you, but actually, it's one of the reasons she came out sooner than others, wasn't it, in the end.

GONEN: I don't know if 471 days in, in the hell of Hamas is called you know, short or prior to she was not supposed to be in, in Hamas hands on

the first place. So, I don't know, 471 days. It's such a long time.

[15:20:00]

She was badly injured. And in the phone call, I wasn't sure if she was wasn't murdered at the spot. But a week later, I just felt her and I heard

her, you know, in my head telling me, mommy, I am alive and I will be brought back alive.

And this thing held me, you know, it's like really talking to her. And. Yes. And the second agreement that occurred on the 19th of January, which

in this one also, the U.S. helped us a lot to make sure this agreement is happening. My daughter was brought back one of the first women together

with Emily and Doron in 19th of January, 2024, more than a year.

More than a year and three months. She was held in the -- in the hell of Hamas.

FOSTER: I mean, what I was trying to say was she was a civilian, she was female and she was injured. So, she did get in that early phase.

But what's it like for you now? Knowing the families of hostages still alive in Israel, how are you able to help them? I mean, do you sometimes

feel guilty that you were blessed to see your daughter again? I mean, what's the conversation there?

GONEN: First, the survivor's guilt is, is terrible. Horrible. I cannot even explain that because my daughter is here and she's, you know, being

taken care of. And she had already three surgeries. And there are still there in Gaza, in the hands of Hamas.

And I think every morning when I wake up, I have at least one or two meetings with people that can make the change. Civil people, a lot of them.

I met so many people that during the past two years to transfer, you know, to give people the power and the hope to make sure they are coming back.

And, you know, wake people up to do things in order to make Israel us stronger again. You know, that the unity between us, the vouching for each

other, which is so wonderful in Israel and this is what we are doing as the, you know, as civilians. That's what we can do. And we are doing it,

and we are stronger than ever.

FOSTER: You've watched the negotiations come and go to get the remaining hostages out. So, you follow every twist and turn of this.

I mean, are you as hopeful as some people that there's something some more positive momentum this time around? And it could ultimately become positive

for the hostages?

GONEN: We do feel it's pretty, you know, it feels like it was in January when the agreement, the second agreement came to life. So, it feels

somewhat the same. And we are optimistic because President Trump and also a lot of, other leaders in around the world are joining together to make sure

that Israel can make this agreement and still we can feel safe here in Israel.

And, I do hope it will happen now. And I'm optimistic, but we are realistic because we've been there so many times. And the hope sometimes, you know,

it can break you. So, we are keeping the hope. We are holding it very tight.

And we are, you know, we are so grateful for Trump and the other leaders that are supporting us. And we do believe that with this power of the

people that lead the world and know what is humanity and what we need in order to really live good. They are doing everything they can to make sure

this agreement will take place now before it will be too late.

You talked about 20 hostages, 22, I have to say, because we don't know the situation, but we hope that 22 are still alive and we want to make sure

they will come back alive.

FOSTER: Let's hope those hopes pay off. Meirav Leshem Gonen, I really appreciate you joining us on this very difficult day for all of you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:43]

FOSTER: Somber memorial ceremonies today for victims of the October 7th attacks. Grieving families and survivors gathering at the site of the Nova

Music Festival massacre. Nearly 400 people attending that event were killed and dozens were abducted, one woman told CNN after the attack, she

experienced survivor's guilt, trying to find a reason why she survived. Today, she works as a social psychologist, helping others impacted by

October the 7th.

Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid says he's hopeful obstacles around the Gaza peace talks currently underway can be overcome. He talked with CNN's

Oren Liebermann.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YAIR LAPID, ISRAELI OPPOSITION LEADER: The fact that the president, President Trump, has put all his weight into the -- threw all his weight

into the arena, saying, I'm going to make this happen is a cause for optimism. One would think that the Israeli government should have done this

long time ago, but as it is right now, there is more.

It's a somber day today, but I don't want to wallow into self-pity of any kind. So, we are hopeful. We want to see what's going on in Egypt coming

through. And we want this to happen. And there's more than a hint of optimism in the air, even in this sad day.

[15:30:01]

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: The issues, however, are the same issues. Questions about disarmament, questions about governance of

Gaza. Prisoners. Are those issues any closer to being solved, do you believe?

LAPID: Yes. I think the 20-point plan that, President Trump and his team put on the table is tangible and doable. And I think everybody understands

it. And this and the fact that countries like Turkey are -- has moved themselves into this arena is also, a positive in terms of the hostage

deal. So, yes, it is -- it is more doable than it was, I don't know, two weeks before -- ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: On Wednesday, Qatar's prime minister set to join the ceasefire negotiations in Egypt. His visit comes just days after a direct apology

from the Israeli prime minister over the unprecedented September strike targeting Hamas's negotiating team in Doha.

This week's peace talks are providing a glimmer of hope for Israelis and Palestinians in what has been a truly excruciating wait, filled with dread

and uncertainty. We don't know is will Hamas compromise on its demands in these talks in Egypt?

Joining me now, Diana Buttu. She is a former legal advisor to the Palestinian Liberation Organization. Thank you so much for joining us

today.

You know how these talks work.

DIANA BUTTU, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY: My pleasure.

FOSTER: You understand when there's momentum. Do you feel it this time?

BUTTU: I think the bigger issue here is why is it that Palestinians need to be negotiating over an end to genocide? This is something that binds the

entire world and calls upon the entire world to be putting sanctions on Israel. Instead, we've put it -- we've reversed it. We've made it so that

those who are under -- living under genocide are required to negotiate an end to it.

And that's very, very, very problematic. I think instead, we should be looking at how is it that we should be stopping Israel rather than asking

the question, is Hamas going to accept or not going to accept?

FOSTER: I understand. And, you know, that's the bigger debate, isn't it? But right now, it's about what happens in the negotiations. And it does

seem very positive, doesn't it? From the various -- well, all the briefings were really getting from it and all the movement that appears to be there.

BUTTU: I'm not so positive. I have to be honest, because even though President Trump came forward and said that the bombing should stop

immediately, Israel has continued to bomb Palestinians in Gaza. And so, that has not at all let up, even as we see, even as we speak, even as the

negotiating teams are meeting, that bombing is continuing, that genocide is continuing.

So there hasn't been any letup in this. So, while there's -- there are a lot of people who are optimistic and, look, I'm the first person who wants

to see this genocide ended. All Palestinians want to see this ended.

And at the same time, we want to make sure that that this -- that what happens is not going to happen again. We want to make sure that Israel

isn't going to be in a position where it gets to wipe Palestinians off the map again. So that's why for this to happen, there needs to be an immediate

stopping of the bombing, as President Trump has said. But instead, I haven't seen that yet.

FOSTER: One of the issues Hamas is bringing up is obviously governance of Gaza. They want a Palestinian authority of independent independence,

technocrats based on Palestinian national consensus, with the reliance on Arab and Islamic support. Thats slightly different, wasn't it, that from

what Trump was suggesting with this -- this alternative authority, that he was going to chair.

BUTTU: Yes. And the reason for that is that who in the end should be deciding the future of Palestinians other than Palestinians. And so Hamas

said, we're not in a position to be making these decisions on behalf of all Palestinians. This is something that's going to require Palestinian

consensus. And therefore, there should be a Palestinian government, not a government that is imposed upon us, not a government that is coming from

the outside, but instead a Palestinian-led government with -- that is formed through Palestinian consensus.

FOSTER: And in terms of withdrawal of Israeli troops, that's obviously the sensitive part on the Israeli side, as you'll understand. But will that, do

you think, be a red line for Hamas? The Israeli troops need to be out completely.

BUTTU: Israeli troops must be out. That is going to be the only way that this is going to at all happen. You know, the reason that we're in this

position to begin with is that Israel has maintained a 58-year military occupation over the Gaza Strip. If anything, the world should now be

looking at this and saying, enough is enough. It's time for Palestinians to finally be given their freedom, and instead were looking at a scenario in

which they're letting Israel again, decide how much more of the Gaza strip it gets to take.

[15:35:06]

So I think if we want to move forward and I definitely want to move forward, we have to be looking at this as immediately stopping the bombing

and having this swap of the Israelis for Palestinians. By the way, there are over 11,000 Palestinians who are languishing in Israeli prisons. And

then and the Israelis must withdraw.

FOSTER: Do you think the Trump administration are quite flexible because there is a shift here, isn't there, in terms of what's in the plan and what

Hamas is clearly looking to achieve with the negotiations?

BUTTU: I think if they're serious about ending this, then they're going to need to be that 20-point plan that they came up with a little over a week

ago is not a plan that is going to lead to long term stability. And so, I think they are recognizing this after getting the input from a number of

states. And they're going to need to be flexible. Yes.

FOSTER: Okay. Diana Buttu, thank you so much. And we'll see how those talks go. A big day on Wednesday.

Now, it's the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks heading lower. Dow has been down for most of the day. In fact, this is our business

breakout.

In the last hour, Tesla has unveiled cheaper versions of its two main cars the Model 3 standard will retail at just under $39,000, while the Model Y

standard will be at around $42,000. Thats roughly $5,000 cheaper than the premium versions. The new models will be available in November or December.

For the first time ever, the price of gold has hit $4,000 an ounce. A weaker dollar and a rush to safe havens has seen the price surge so far

this year. The billionaire investor Ken Griffin told Bloomberg this week that the rush to gold is really concerning.

And a much-hyped decision from LeBron James has turned out to be a cognac commercial. The basketball legend has promised a second decision,

referencing his famous contract announcement when he moved to Miami in 2010. When the video arrived, it was an ad for Hennessy, so he knows his

marketing game as well.

The U.S. government shutdown has wreaked havoc on American airports, with some air traffic controllers calling in sick at Burbank airport in

California. The control tower was entirely shut down on Monday night. Flights could take off and land, but only after following certain

procedures. Some flights were delayed by 2-1/2 hours.

More and more of the country's busiest airports are being affected.

Pete Muntean is in Washington and some worrying developments really. Today, Chicago, which is a major hub, affected. We're also seeing other airports

affected and that's having knock on effects, isn't it? Because obviously flights can't move in and out from other parts of America.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We know there is a staffing shortage already at air traffic control facilities nationwide, which means

that even if a handful of controllers call out sick during this government shutdown, remember all 11,000 of them in the U.S. working without pay right

now, that equates to an outsized impact.

And this is the latest. The Chicago O'Hare International Airport control tower will be short-staffed tonight from 3:00 p.m. to midnight Eastern

Daylight Time. That's the latest alert from the Federal Aviation Administration. Also, the tower at Nashville International Airport will be

short-staffed from 3:30 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time. And the FAA has already put into place a delay in the name of safety for flights going into

Nashville by two hours.

We are only at the start of what will likely be more and more of these delays. This is not some sort of coordinated sick-out effort by air traffic

controllers. That is what the head of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, NATCA, the union that represents them, just told me in a phone

conversation.

But you have to remember that given the shortage of controllers already, given the fact that controllers are already working mandatory six-day weeks

of ten-hour shifts, mandatory overtime, they've been doing that for years. You can understand that the weight of a government shutdown, the weight of

the idea of having to still put food on the table without getting paid leads to these controllers calling out sick.

I want you to listen now to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. He said he does not support controllers calling out sick, but that the Federal

Aviation Administration will do what it has to do to keep flying safe. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I want controllers to go to work. That's their job. They're important jobs. Eventually, they're going to get

paid. But we've got to be honest, they're humans and they're under pressure. And I do think this can have a rippling effect.

It's a huge problem. And again, Burbank zero controllers came to work. I don't support that. They should -- they should come to work. They're

supposed to come to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: It does not seem like we will see what they saw at Burbank last night, again tonight. That is something a condition called ATC Zero, when

an air traffic control facility goes completely dark.

[15:40:05]

Though this is still in the very early hours, we are not out of the woods yet. And this may be just one day of many days of these controllers calling

out sick in only day seven of this government shutdown. Remember, it was some controllers calling out sick. A handful of controllers calling out

sick during the 35-day government shutdown back in 2019, that led to a quick end to that shutdown, Max.

FOSTER: Yeah. Okay, Pete, thank you so much for that update.

Still to come, some Jeffrey -- of Jeffrey Epsteins victims have planned to create their own client list, but some are warning might not be the best

way to achieve transparency now. Details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Breaking news. National Guard troops from the state of Texas have begun to arrive in the state of Illinois. The Illinois governor condemned

plans to send troops from other states into the region against his wishes.

Omar Jimenez is in Elwood, Illinois, near Chicago. I think the governor went even further, calling it an invasion, didn't he?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, Max, the governor is not happy, and neither is the mayor of Chicago. Where we are is outside the

city of Chicago, outside this army reserve training center. And the reason we're here is this is where we saw Texas National Guard troops arrived, at

least for a few minutes, before these trucks here were pulled in front of us one by one, so that we could no longer see what was going on this base.

Now, to give you an idea of what we are actually seeing before these trucks were pulled in front of us, one of the reasons we knew these were Texas

National Guard troops is that they have essentially an insignia of a T on their left arms, which matches what Texas Governor Greg Abbott showed when

he tweeted out pictures saying that these troops were on their way to Illinois.

[15:45:03]

Essentially the only vantage point we have at this point is on the tail end of these trucks, where we have seen some activity back and forth, at this

point.

But really the question is, what is the scope of their activities actually going to look like? It's a question that even, leading state and city

leaders in Chicago and Illinois have for these next stages as well. It's even questions a federal judge has, after the state of Illinois sued the

Trump administration over this.

The judge wanted to know where exactly will these guard troops be deployed? How long will they be here? And again, which municipalities will they be

interacting with? A concern that those in the community have is, will those -- will these roles be people facing and community interacting roles, or

will they simply be to protect federal personnel and property, which is what has been laid out so far in a memo from the White House?

So even though this is the beginning of a significant chapter here in this sort of fight back and forth between the Trump administration and local

leaders over -- over safety, over immigration enforcement, in some cases, we still don't quite know what the next stages are going to look like,

including where they are going to be deployed.

One other note I should make is that this is the Texas National Guard that is here in Illinois. The Illinois National Guard is also what is expected

to be deployed per Trump administration wishes. But what the Texas National Guard, they have been used in a variety of fashions over the past few

years, at points being used to help with border security down in Texas, as well.

Remember, Texas Governor Greg Abbott sent migrants from the state of Texas to the city of Chicago during the Biden administration to make a point

about border management. And yet, here we now have Texas National Guard troops who are now being sent to Chicago in real furtherance of what the

Trump administration wants to do as well.

So, this is a particular group of national guard troops that is seem to be used as patchwork in a variety of situations, some of them political in

nature. And in this case, to bolster the Trump administration's wishes.

FOSTER: We'll see how it plays out. Omar, thank you so much for joining us from Illinois. We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The last avenue for freedom for Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell is a presidential pardon from Donald Trump,

and he hasn't ruled it out.

[15:50:05]

She's serving a 20-year sentence for helping Epstein carry out a years-long scheme to groom and sexually abuse underage girls. Yesterday, the Supreme

Court rejected maxwells appeal to overturn her conviction. President Trump says he'll speak to the department of justice about her case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Supreme Court is back in session.

TRUMP: Yeah.

COLLINS: They rejected today an appeal by Ghislaine Maxwell to overturn her conviction. That means her only chance of getting out of prison is a

pardon from you. Is that something you're open to doing?

TRUMP: Who are we talking about?

COLLINS: Ghislaine Maxwell?

TRUMP: You know, I haven't heard the name in so long. I can say this that I'd have to take a look at it. I would have to take a look. Did they reject

that?

COLLINS: She wanted to appeal her conviction. And they said that they were not going to hear her appeal.

TRUMP: I see. Well, I'll take a look at it.

COLLINS: But you're considering that?

TRUMP: I will speak to the DOJ. I wouldn't consider it or not consider it. I don't know anything about it. So, I'll speak --

REPORTER: So why would she be a candidate?

TRUMP: I will speak to the DOJ.

REPORTER: Why would she be a candidate for clemency, sir?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I'd have to speak to the DOJ. I'll look at it. I'll -- I have a lot of people have asked me for pardons. I call them -

- Puff Daddy has asked me for a pardon.

COLLINS: But she was convicted of child sex trafficking.

TRUMP: Yeah. I mean, I'm going to have to take a look at it. I'd have to ask DOJ. I didn't know they rejected it. I didn't know she was even asking

for it, frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The Trump administration has backtracked on its promise to release more files associated with the Epstein case, notably, a so-called client

list. Some survivors have discussed creating and publishing their own list instead, but it's a move that some lawyers warn could put already

vulnerable victims in greater danger.

M.J. Lee has been talking to some of Jeffrey Epsteins victims are just so frustrated, aren't they, that there isn't more transparency?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, a lot of frustration all around, Max, about the lack of transparency coming from the

federal government and the image that we just saw there was footage from that press conference that survivors of Jeffrey Epstein had about a month

ago, and one moment really had stood out at the time. It was when that survivor, Epstein survivor. Lisa Phillips, made the announcement that the

survivors were actually going to come together and create their own Epstein list.

Now, we wanted to find out now that it has been about a month or so since that announcement, whether the survivors had actually come together and

were working to try to create this list.

We spoke with some of the survivors and the lawyers representing the victims. We spoke with congressional staffers here in Washington, D.C. as

well. And what all of them told me, Max, was that they're not aware of, at least so far, any kind of coordinated effort for the survivors to come

together and put this list together and that they hadn't been contacted about this kind of effort as well.

And what's really important, and I think should be discussed when we are talking about this issue, is that the survivors and the lawyers, at least

some of them that I spoke with, actually said that they think this is not a good idea. And there are a couple of reasons for this. For one, they say

this is a dangerous undertaking for the survivors. We are talking about people in Epstein's former circle who were very powerful, very wealthy and

influential, and the idea of sort of publicly accusing them of wrongdoing, they said, will open them up to a lot of threats, whether they're physical

threats or legal threats.

They also just basically believe that this is not their job, that this is the job of the federal government to be transparent and that they shouldn't

have to sort of pick up the slack. They were also making the case that the use of the term client list, and I know that this is a term that's been

used a lot, has the effect of sort of minimizing the folks who might have been in Epstein's circle. Perhaps they weren't directly involved in

physically abusing anyone, but still played a role in financing him, in enabling him.

And they want to make sure that that term doesn't minimize sort of the circle of those people who were involved in enabling Jeffrey Epstein. Now,

I did speak with Lisa Phillips, the survivor who had made this announcement, and she said, look, her intention was to make sure that other

survivors could reach out. She said, if any kind of list exists, that would be in the hands of the lawyers who are involved.

But as you said, Max, a lot of push right now for more transparency. And that certainly is not going away anytime soon.

FOSTER: M.J., thank you for bringing us that.

Pope Leo is planning his first international trip since being elevated to the leader of the Catholic Church. He will travel to Turkey and Lebanon.

That'll be late November, early December. While in Turkey, he'll mark the 17th -- sorry, the 700th anniversary of the Council of Nicaea, which is

considered a foundational event in the establishment of all Christianity.

Finally, tonight, Taylor Swift is revealing more details about her new record breaking album. Swift explained the inspiration behind "The Life of

a Showgirl" with comedian Jimmy Fallon during her first appearance in three years on his late-night show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: And this, I wanted to be the character of the showgirl, which is like other aspects of a person's personality, where

you're like -- you're like funny and feisty and like -- and like having a blast and flirty and sort of tongue in cheek and a little scandalous and

like friendly.

JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: Yes, were feeling all of it. By the way, I have to say, because I'm getting blinded. Congratulations on your engagement.

SWIFT: Oh, thanks. Thanks.

FALLON: Wow.

SWIFT: Yeah. It's --

FALLON: Can I see?

SWIFT: Yeah. Of course.

FALLON: Oh, my Lord, can we look just at the camera? Oh, my --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce gave swift that engagement ring, of course, right after her appearance on his podcast "New

Heights". The two haven't announced a wedding date yet.

I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" up next.

END

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