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What We Know with Max Foster
House Votes To Release Epstein Files In Rare Show Of Unity; Saudi Crown Prince Makes First U.S. Visit Since Khashoggi Murder; Court Orders Texas To Return To Previous Congressional Map; North Carolina Governor: Raids Causing "Widespread Fear"; Trump Hints At Diplomacy As He Weighs Venezuela Options; U.S. Senate Could Approve Release Of Epstein Files Today. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 18, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:29]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Republicans and Democrats unite to release the Epstein.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
After what abuse survivors call three decades of being left in the dark, the U.S. House has voted to compel the release of all the Jeffrey Epstein
files. The measure was overwhelmingly approved by both Democrats and Republicans, with only one no vote. The final tally, 427 to one. It now
goes to the U.S. Senate for approval and then to President Donald Trump for his expected signature.
Arlette Saenz joins us from Capitol Hill.
And what a incredible show of cross-party support, Arlette.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this really was a remarkable turnaround when you think about the fact that just months ago, House
Republican leaders had resisted holding such a vote on the House floor, and today, it passed with overwhelming support. This vote came down at 427 in
favor, and one congressman against it.
That was Republican Congressman Clay Higgins from Louisiana. He had actually spoken to our colleague Manu Raju a few weeks ago, saying he would
oppose this bill because he felt that it abandoned criminal justice procedure. And once again, as he explained his vote on social media today,
he said that was the reason why.
There were also a few members who were not on hand, about five who were absent. But this is a significant shift. Both President Donald Trump and
House Speaker Mike Johnson had tried to delay and prevent this vote from happening in months, and it wasn't until they finally got that 218 needed
signature in order to force a vote from happening, that then both President Trump and Speaker Johnson got on board with this plan. The president on
Sunday told reporters that he would vote, or that he would support Republicans voting in favor of that. That really set off a cascade of GOP
lawmakers who said, yes, we are going to vote for this. That's why you had an almost nearly unanimous vote on this on the House floor today.
Now, House Speaker Mike Johnson, earlier today when he announced he would vote in favor of this bill, he said that he still has a lot of concerns
with how it is written. He said that he's spoken with Senate Majority Leader John Thune about some changes that need to be made in order to do
things like protect victims' identities and protect whistleblowers from coming forward in future investigations on this case, Johnson said that
Thune acknowledged that there needed to be some changes, but there are big questions about what happens in the Senate now that this vote has passed in
the House.
The Senate Majority leader has not committed to bringing this up for a vote yet. But the fact that this passed overwhelmingly, with nearly unanimous
support could add some pressure on him to act. Over in the Senate, if all Democrats stuck together, they would need 13 Republican senators to get on
board with this measure in order to pass it there. And if it passes the Senate, it would then head to President Trump's desk for his signature, and
he has said that he would sign it.
After that, there are a lot of questions about how exactly or when these files would be released. There are some proponents of this push in the
House who are concerned that the Justice Department might delay releasing these files, and that is because President Trump in the last week has urged
the Justice Department to conduct investigations into some high profile figures, many Democrats, like Bill Clinton and Larry Summers and their ties
to Epstein. There's a concern that the Justice Department could argue they can't release these files if they are tied up in ongoing investigations. So
that is a big question mark going forward.
But you really can't overstate what a significant moment this is in the House. There had been pressure mounting for weeks, for months on releasing
these files. And after delaying it for quite some time, House -- the House speaker did move forward with bringing it up and it now passed
overwhelmingly. Now all eyes will be on the Senate for what happens next.
FOSTER: Arlette, thank you. Let's bring in CNN's chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny.
I'm wondering, Jeff, how can the Senate resist even taking this case when the house has voted in the way that it did? And the presidents even saying
he's ready to sign it.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Max, it would be an extraordinary thing for the senate to somehow thumb its nose at what
the House has just done in a remarkable fashion, a near unanimous vote. Only one Republican, a congressman from Louisiana, voted to oppose the
release of these. But all other members, more than 400 voted to release.
So, the Senate cannot ignore the thunderclap that has just happened on the -- in the House of Representatives' chamber.
[15:05:02]
My guess is Senate Majority Leader John Thune will want to dispose of this as quickly as possible, effectively think of it as like a hot potato that
he does not want to have ownership of for too long. But, Max, I'm really struck by what we just have witnessed in the House is a moment that we've
not seen before in the Trump era, where there was effectively a small group, and then it kind of snowballed into more and more defied President
Trump. And only in the final hours of this, some 48 hours ago, less than that did President Trump finally say, oh, go ahead and vote for it.
Well, he knew where this was heading, so he did not want to be on the wrong side of it to look like he was defeated. But make no mistake about it, he
was defeated. He has tried for months to keep this a vote from happening. Speaker Johnson has as well.
So now we are at a very interesting moment here. The iron grip that President Trump has long held over his party. We've seen one example of it
failing. Will there be other examples? I don't think there will be a ton, but there certainly might be some on foreign policy and other matters.
So that is why this is -- I mean, aside from just the actual substance of the files with Jeffrey Epstein and that extraordinary drama and horrible
story that's been playing out for decades, this is a major political moment as well today here in Washington, Max.
FOSTER: Yeah. And he looks sensitive about it, doesn't he? Let's just look at how he responded to a question about it today at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's
the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who is highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate and just a terrible
question and you could even ask that same exact question nicely.
You're all psyched up. Somebody psyched you over at ABC, you're going to psych it. You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: I mean, how do you read that? Is that him being stressed? Is it about him trying to create another deflection, or is it just an issue he
has with ABC? I mean, what was going on there, Jeff?
ZELENY: I mean, all of the above. And also, President Trump looking for an opponent. He thrives when he is sort of running against someone or when he
is creating an enemy that does not exist. We've seen him time and time again. Use the press as that enemy when he doesn't have an opponent on the
campaign trail. He sometimes seizes upon the press.
That was Mary Bruce of ABC News, who's been covering the White House for a very long time, since the George W. Bush administration as a producer and
as a -- as the chief correspondent. Now, it was a perfectly legitimate question to ask.
And the president's response was very telling. So I think that, yes, he is exasperated by this. He clearly is uncomfortable by the White House being
unable to keep Republicans in line. You'll remember it was less than a week ago when, in the White House situation room, the attorney general of the
United States, the deputy attorney general of the FBI director, held a briefing for a single member of Congress, Lauren Boebert, trying to get her
to not sign on to that discharge petition, which, of course, that is the arcane procedural format that led to this House vote happening today.
So, the White House is a bit -- has lost its footing on this. And the presidents lashing out there at the press does not change the fact that
House Republicans have defied him on this, on an issue that could have been dealt with months and months and months ago if he would have decided to.
FOSTER: Yeah. Jeff, thank you. Fascinating day in Washington.
ZELENY: Sure.
FOSTER: Ahead of the vote to release the Epstein files, victims of the convicted sex offender spoke out earlier in Washington. The survivors and
family members urged lawmakers to vote to release the files.
One of those who spoke was Sky Roberts. He is the brother of Virginia Giuffre, who was one of the most prominent accusers. He died by suicide --
she died by suicide earlier this year. Roberts explained the impact of the abuse on his sister and others.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: Epstein and Maxwell didn't just abuse her. They trafficked her to a network of the rich and powerful --
princes, prime ministers, politicians, financiers and lawyers. These men committed unspeakable acts against her, against her will and against the
will of countless survivors who stand united with us today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: We're covering this, the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein was an emotional moment earlier today.
CNN's MJ Lee has more on their struggle and what its taken to get to this point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: We have been here since this morning on Capitol Hill as these Jeffrey Epstein survivors
arrived for this press conference.
[15:10:01]
And, you know, when they met outside of the Cannon Office Building, you sort of have the feeling of a joyful reunion. You know, keep in mind that
so many of these women actually have gotten to know each other really well. You know, perhaps some of them knew each other, actually, going back to the
years when they were actually being abused by Jeffrey Epstein. For some of them, they've only gotten to know each other very recently, particularly
leading up to this vote.
But then as we cross the street with them and went over to the site of the press conference, you could really feel that the nerves were running high.
You saw each of the women taking the podium for a few minutes to remind everyone of the abuses that they suffered under Jeffrey Epstein. And I have
to tell you, one of the most emotional moments about this, this press conference, was the fact that for so many of the women they were holding up
pictures of their childhoods, of when they were little, as young as for some of them, 14 years old, they say that is sort of the moment, the year,
the part of their lives when they were abused by Jeffrey Epstein.
And going back to that time for some of these women was clearly incredibly challenging. I want you to listen to a couple of those emotional moments.
HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I know everybody sees us today as grown adults, but we are fighting for the children that were abandoned and left
behind, and the reckoning. This is who you're fighting for.
JENA-LISA JONES, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I was a child. I was in ninth grade. I was hopeful for life and what the future had held for me. He stole a lot
from me by -- at 14.
LEE: And, you know, the last time that these survivors held this kind of press conference here on Capitol Hill was back in September, and I don't
think that any one of them would have expected that this moment would have necessarily come. And that is why I think we saw so much gratitude being
shown to particularly the Republican House members, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was there at the press conference for basically defying
President Trump.
And I'll just quickly note, too, that these survivors are going around Capitol Hill today, meeting with lawmakers, making sure that they are
putting pressure on them. And then, of course, they don't know what comes next once this bill presumably moves to the Senate. And that is why they
are not going to let up on the pressure, is what they're telling me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: MJ Lee reporting for us there.
Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman visiting Washington today for the first time since the 2018 murder of "Washington
Post" journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a killing the CIA believes was one that he likely ordered. The White House is rolling out the red carpet and much
more to welcome the powerful and controversial crown prince.
U.S. President Donald Trump called him a very good friend of mine and praised his record on human rights, an issue for which Saudi Arabia has
long been under fire. The crown prince has denied having any involvement in Khashoggi's murder.
President Trump snapped back at a reporter who asked about it in the oval office today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of
people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen, but he knew nothing about it.
And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, later this hour, I'll speak to the United States' former ambassador to Saudi Arabia about all of that.
Now, a federal court has just blocked Texas from using its newly redrawn Republican friendly congressional map in next year's midterms. The court
ruled that the map was likely unconstitutional and racial gerrymandering. It's a blow for Texas Republicans and President Trump, who had been hoping
to flip multiple Democratic seats in 2026.
CNN's Fredreka Schouten is with me now.
I mean, I mean, it's a real blow, isn't it, because this was a framework that were going to replicate elsewhere.
FREDREKA SCHOUTEN, CNN POLITICS NATIONAL POLITICAL WRITER: Huge setback. As you note. I mean, they had hoped to get five seats in this redraw, you
know, it wasn't guaranteed that they would win them all, but they certainly were creating more friendly territory in Texas for Republicans. And this
set off a whole campaign of redistricting around the country.
You saw Missouri draw its maps. You saw North Carolina redraw its maps. You saw Ohio, where Republicans control the system, draw maps that could help
Republicans pick up two additional seats. And this court, it's a -- it was a 2-1 ruling by a three judge panel said that this amounted to an
unconstitutional racial gerrymander.
And it's really striking. You know, President Trump had been pressuring Texas Republicans to do something for some time. And there was some
recalcitrance. And then the Department of Justice, the head of the civil rights division, wrote a letter arguing that the districts, as they are now
amounted to sort of an unconstitutional -- gave minority voters a racial edge.
[15:15:14]
And that is the actual language that this court used to say, no, you attack this on racial grounds. And that was incorrect.
And so, we're expecting appeals. We've already heard from the Texas governor that there will be an appeal to the Supreme Court. And I suspect
the White House will follow suit as well.
But the bottom line here is that there has been this race to redistrict as, as you know, you know, California responded to the Texas redraw by
redrawing five districts to make them more friendly to Democrats in that state.
And it's not clear now who's going to come out ahead. Is it a wash, or do Republicans end up with fewer seats than they anticipated as a result of
this redistricting? It's really unclear, Max.
FOSTER: Yeah. And as you say, there will be an appeal, I'm sure, won't there?
SCHOUTEN: Yes.
FOSTER: So, it's not over yet?
SCHOUTEN: It's not over yet by any means, Max.
FOSTER: Okay, Fredreka, thank you so much for joining us.
Now, the governor of North Carolina says immigration raids in his state are causing widespread fear, criticizing the tactics of federal agents. He says
they're operating in the shadows, driving an unmarked car, wearing paramilitary gear and randomly stopping people based on their skin color.
The Department of Homeland Security says more than 200 undocumented immigrants have been arrested in the Charlotte area over the past few days.
Now, agents have arrived in Raleigh, the capital.
CNN's Gustavo Valdes is in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And it's these tactics that the agents are using, which is really upsetting people, it seems.
GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It seems like that is the case. Of course, they're also upset that people are being picked up regardless. And
as you can see, this is day two of a small but very interactive protest on the streets of Charlotte. The small group have the banners and the flags
and the people who come by and blow their horn in support of this request that the immigration agents leave the state.
And one thing that we see a change today, for instance, is that big American flag. And it is significant because yesterday, what we saw were
mostly Latin American flags. And that is sometimes part of the criticism that this kind of protests draw, because they feel like this is something
to protect American jobs, American law enforcement, and that people who are migrating to the United States should embrace those values instead of
trying to keep their owns. Not to say that they have to forget it, but today, we're seeing that change. They're trying to show the community that
the migrants that are being detained are part of the fabric of the state.
Many of the businesses in this area that is mostly Hispanic, or one of the ones where a lot of Hispanics do, businesses are either closed or operating
at bare minimum capacity, both because they don't have enough customers and also they don't have enough workers about -- there were thousands of
students that didn't go to class yesterday. This is according to the Charlotte Mecklenburg County School District. This morning there was a
walkout at a couple of schools here in town.
So, we're seeing how the protests are spreading throughout the state. We are hearing reports in other cities, but also what we're seeing is that the
pro-immigrant community have learned from other activities like this, like in Chicago, where now they have a system where they can warn other migrants
of where they believe the Border Patrol, the immigration agents, are operating, and they give them warning.
Something else that we're seeing is that people who are U.S. citizens or even legal residents stop and videotape whatever activity they see when
they see somebody detained. And we're hearing a lot of reports. I've talked to at least three people who've told me that after they start recording,
the agents come and question their legal status in the country, and some of them say they have been polite and some others have not have been not so
polite.
So, this is what we're seeing. And this is something that is spreading. The U.S. government, the secretary of homeland security, says that they chose
Charlotte for this operative based on intelligence, that they're going against specific people. But we're also hearing reports that people who
just happen to be where some activities, some targeted activities happen, they're also being picked up.
FOSTER: Okay, Gustavo, thank you.
Coming up, after weeks of relentless U.S. pressure on Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro, diplomacy might still stand a chance. We'll bring you the latest
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:23:04]
FOSTER: After weeks of relentless U.S. pressure on Venezuela, President Trump and Nicolas Maduro seem to be opening the door to diplomacy. On
Monday, Trump said he would be willing to speak directly with his Venezuelan counterpart at a certain time, which Maduro welcomed, saying he
would be open to a face-to-face dialogue.
This comes as the Venezuelan opposition published a freedom manifesto on "The Washington Post", outlining their vision for a free Venezuela and
calling for Maduro to be tried for crimes against humanity.
Let's now bring in Stefano Pozzebon, who is following this story from Caracas.
So, it does seem as though Maduro would need to reach out to Trump, right? Because that seems to be what Trump would expect. He's not going to reach
out to Maduro. So how close are we to that?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Max. I mean, it's funny to analyze here. It just needed a couple of words from the president, Donald Trump,
saying that he would be open for discussions that now, basically, just like he pointed out. You have both the leader of this country, Nicolas Maduro,
an authoritarian president who has ruled here for 14 years and the leader of the opposition, Maria Corina Machado, who just won the Nobel peace prize
less than a month ago. Sort of like both swaying for Trump's attention on Sunday -- on Monday night, Maduro said that he was open for a face to face
meeting and actually revealed that he had sent a letter to the White House as early as September 6th. So almost to more than two months ago, actually.
And instead, we have this new manifesto laid out by Maria Corina Machado, who is the leader of the -- of the opposition here. She is the champion who
led the opposition to victory in last year's presidential election, election that maduro did not concede. And that's the reason why we are here
in this unfortunately messy story.
But she really laid out what I thought, and I was listening to her speech earlier today really closely. She laid out a vision that that probably was
directed directly at Trump's base.
[15:25:02]
Take a listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Envision a new Venezuela perched on top of the western hemisphere as the premier global
energy hub, a symbol of independence and innovation, a new era of ingenuity in an open marketplace of ideas, catapulting the next generation of leaders
across all business sectors, including high tech, agribusiness, eco- friendly tourism, fintech, artificial intelligence, robotics, rare earth minerals and defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: So, she laid out a marketplace, free marketplace, a energy hub, ecotourism, rare earth. It's a completely different vision from what Maduro
has achieved in the last ten years, and it a vision that definitely would appeal more in my mind to the business insights and instincts of the U.S.
president, who probably envisions a lot of real estate, for example, if Venezuela became liberated. There will be, of course, a lot of real estate
to rebuild this country. Of course, he would envision a touristic hub and of course, like she said, the energy transition and Venezuela sitting on
top of the world's largest oil reserve will definitely come into play.
I think it's interesting how in bare and stark terms, both of them are now pitching essentially their visions for the -- for Donald Trump. Maduro is
the stability, the status quo. We can find a way, even if we don't like each other. And Maria Corina Machado says it will be hard to dislodge
maduro from power. But it is -- will be an enormous economic, frankly, opportunity if you go down that way. We will have to see which way Donald
Trump will go to. I -- honestly, I'm not able right now to forecast which way he will go eventually -- Max.
FOSTER: As us.
Stefano, thank you, live from Caracas.
We'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:25]
FOSTER: Extraordinary day in Washington. The U.S. Senate could pass a bill ordering the release of the Epstein files as soon as today we now know.
This after the U.S. House overwhelmingly voted to do so earlier.
Our chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is on Capitol Hill.
I guess it was inevitable when you looked at that vote. But when might we get -- I'll let you go.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The president today said that he -- said, you know, wouldn't -- we know that the U.S. intelligence
committee had concluded that MBS had ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and the president today said that MBS didn't knew nothing about it. Are you
concerned about that?
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Yeah. I mean, I don't want to debate the president on that. I know the briefings I had. I mean, clearly, they had
surveillance in the consulate and the tapes of the discussions and the killing. And look, I was very vocal. He opposed to what was done, and still
am. But I do think it's time to move forward in this new Middle East that we're in.
RAJU: But do you think the president should be essentially covering up for MBS?
MCCAUL: Well, I don't know if he's -- I don't know. I can't speak for the president on this. I can just tell you that, excuse me, sorry. I just
screwed up your piece. I can tell you that I know the president is going forward with the sale of the F-35s. You know, which is chairman of foreign
affairs, I would sign off on that. I think that's a positive move, because to pull Saudi as an ally of the United States in this direction rather than
to China, and it will also solidify normalization in that process in a post-Gaza world.
RAJU: Okay. All right. I'll let you go. Thanks for your time.
Max, I'm not sure if you're still with me here.
FOSTER: I am. Yeah. I mean, that was interesting.
RAJU: Are you there, Max?
FOSTER: Yeah, I am.
RAJU: OK, yes.
FOSTER: Take us through what was happening there.
RAJU: Yeah. So, you know, we're in the middle -- we're in the middle of this moment here on the on the Hill where we're getting reaction from
members on a variety of issues. Mike McCaul is a senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and I was curious about his position on how he
viewed Trump's essentially, essentially saying that Mohammed bin Salman was not responsible for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, "The Washington Post"
journalist who was killed back in 2018, and the U.S. intelligence community concluded that.
The president suggested he knew nothing about it, so was curious about what he said right there. But he didn't seem to take too much of an issue with
the president's comments.
Nevertheless, that's one breaking story. The other one, of course, is what happened just now, moments ago in the United States house by a 427 to one
vote. The vote to approve this plan to call for the release of all the Jeffrey Epstein files. Despite the White House's opposition to it and
despite the president's refusal for months to sign off on this bill.
Ultimately, the president did say that the Republicans should vote for it because the Republicans were going to vote for it anyways. And so, he was a
yes. Ultimately, that forced Mike Johnson, the speaker of the house, to vote yes. And then we saw this overwhelming vote in the House.
And now, big news, the United States Senate indicating they could move on this as soon as tonight. The Senate majority leader, John Thune, just told
reporters he could try to prove it tonight on a unanimous vote. That means all senators have to sign off on it.
If no one objects, that bill could go to the president's desk as soon as tonight, which has been a pretty remarkable turnaround here in the last 24
to 48 hours of an issue that's really divided Republicans and bogged down action in the United States House for months -- Max.
FOSTER: Just explain that. I mean, you speak to the senators all the time. I mean, this idea that it could just get automatically put through
effectively in the Senate tonight, how likely do you really think that is?
RAJU: I think it's very likely because of how the vote, how high of a number this was in the House. You know, you don't see this, you don't see a
427 to one vote in the United States house. It very rarely happens.
And because of this issue is so complex and so sensitive, it's very rare. It's very unlikely we can expect anyone objecting on the -- on the -- on
the Senate side. So, what would happen is the Senate majority leader would go down and ask for what's known as unanimous consent, meaning all 100
senators have to say consent to this bill and ask if anyone objects. If someone objects, that means the bill won't pass.
And the Senate majority leader would have to take steps to schedule a vote, and that could take some time to go through the process. He would need 60
votes to overcome any effort to object. Or if nobody objects, it quickly passes just like that on a snap of a finger, you could go to the
president's desk.
So that's what I expect to happen given that the president now signals he's going to support this and sign this into law.
[15:35:03]
We saw what happened in the House. And now, we're about to see what's going to happen in the Senate as soon as tonight -- Max.
FOSTER: Extraordinary times over there. Manu, I'll let you get to chasing politicians again. Thank you so much.
Now, it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street on another tough day for U.S. stocks. Actually, the Dow lower once again.
This is our business breakout.
Bitcoin prices falling with the cryptocurrency now giving up all its gains for the year so far. The price dipped below $90,000 on Monday for the first
time in months. Some analysts are calling it an inflection point for bitcoin as investors turn away from riskier assets.
Cloudflare, which handles about a fifth of all web traffic, says its back operating normally. This after a major Internet outage, temporarily took
apps like ChatGPT and X offline. Problems at Cloudflare were reported just before midday here in London and were still continuing hours later. Shares
in Cloudflare fell sharply at the open and are currently down around 2 percent.
The online game Roblox has a new way of verifying your age, and that is by scanning your face. An A.I. tool can now automatically estimate someone's
age from a photograph before they chat with other users. It comes amid legal action in some U.S. states that accuses Roblox of enabling sexual
predators to target children.
As we just told you, U.S. stocks are off the lows of today's session, but it's still been a very rocky week and it's only Tuesday. The S&P 500 is
down more than 3 percent over the past week. Investors are turning away from riskier assets, and there are worries about the massive spending by
tech companies as well.
Anna is with us.
I was looking at bitcoin. It wasn't just that the price had gone down. It's that people are trading it less because they're so concerned about risky
assets.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS & ECONOMICS REPORTER: Yes. I mean, a lot of investors are really worried about these riskier assets, a lot of these
frothy valuations and A.I. companies as well. Many investors are worried that these valuations are basically running ahead of the reality.
But it's also a complicated picture on Wall Street today. You've got a number of reasons that are making investors jittery. You've got a jobs
report that was delayed from September coming out Thursday. They're anxiously awaiting that.
You've got an interest rate cut, which was all but certain next month, that now seems less likely and you've got signs that the U.S. consumer is
getting nervous, too.
So Home Depot is, this home improvement company in the U.S. That posted disappointing results. So, it's -- you know, a lot of fears around this
A.I. bubble around bitcoin and its risk profile. But you've also got all this other stuff in the mix, too.
FOSTER: Yeah. So, are people just holding back and not is it a thin trade? I guess I'm asking.
COOBAN: Yeah. I mean, I think we talked about this K-shaped economy before where people on lower incomes are spending less, where people on higher
incomes are spending more and more. And I think that is reflected in these Home Depot results. We're seeing people in an interest rate market where
house buying is more expensive, getting the mortgage to do so in the U.S., that is putting people off from purchasing. And that is also meaning that
we're seeing it roll on to other companies like Home Depot, also involved in the housing market.
FOSTER: Anna, thank you so much for the update.
We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:41:16]
FOSTER: Returning to one of our top stories. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is visiting U.S. President Donald Trump in Washington today. The
two leaders say they're working to secure deals on artificial intelligence, security and nuclear energy, and discuss the possibility of a Saudi Arabia
normalizing relations with Israel as well. They were keen to portray this meeting as a new beginning for both countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI CROWN PRINCE: What we are having today and tomorrow with President Trump, it's really a huge new chapter in this
relation that will add value to both of us.
TRUMP: You know, when you think about it, I'm just sitting here, you're with the future king, a man who's respected by everybody, a man that
doesn't have to be doing this, really. I don't have to be doing it either. And yet, we're sitting here taking questions, anyway -- we didn't say, oh,
you can't talk about this and there's never been transparency like this, even in his country. But there's never been in our country that's been
acknowledged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: What we want to know is, does this meeting mark a new chapter in U.S.-Saudi relations?
Joining me now is Michael Ratney. He was the U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the Biden administration.
Appreciate you joining us today.
I mean, when you look at that meeting, it really does feel like a new era, doesn't it? No discussion of human rights. You know, closing down the
conversation around Jamal Khashoggi. It's extraordinary to see how things have moved on.
MICHAEL RATNEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, the trajectory of the relationship was getting better
anyway. It was getting better during the Biden administration. I think what you have now is this very kind of warm relationship between Trump and the
Saudi crown prince, almost unusually warm what you saw in the Oval Office today, to the point that far from trying to embarrass MBS, as has happened
in some of these senior level meetings. Trump really was going out of his way to laud the Saudi crown prince, although it was a little bit much
during that exchange with ABC about Khashoggi question.
FOSTER: In terms of the Khashoggi question, how do you feel that was dealt with? We are talking about the American intelligence services pointing the
finger at the crown prince, and then you have the president completely denying that, saying it has nothing to do with it. I mean, how did you feel
about that moment?
RATNEY: Yeah, it was unusual, particularly because I think, MBS himself was probably briefed and prepared for the question and ready to answer it
in some way in the past. He said, although, he didn't have anything to do with it, he takes responsibility on behalf of his government. You know,
Trump kind of went even further on that and went beyond what the U.S. intelligence community had said.
So, it was a strange moment. And in fact, it made the story again after -- it probably wasn't going to be the central story of the visit.
FOSTER: How useful is the relationship to Trump, or do you think it's a -- it's a personal liking of the two men?
RATNEY: I think it's both. I mean, they do seem to have a pretty good rapport. Trump, I think, loves the pageantry of the relationship with Saudi
Arabia. He got received in grand style when he went to Riyadh. I also think he sees value in it, whether through the strategic relationship or
commercial relationship with them.
And of course, I think Trump still holds out hope that there'll be a normalization deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel that he can take credit
for. Although at this point, I think that's a ways off.
FOSTER: Yeah. I want to ask you about that. I mean, how much progress are they making about it or is it just words? Because that really would be a
profound moment, wouldn't it, in Middle East history?
RATNEY: Yeah. The Saudis have made clear. In fact, it came up in the press conference today. But the Saudis have made clear that it can't be more. It
has to be rather more than just this current ceasefire that's in place in Gaza.
[15:45:01]
They need, you know, a genuine end to the war. That means the Israeli defense forces out of Gaza, and they need to see some pathway to
Palestinian statehood. Maybe not creation of a Palestinian state tomorrow, but they need to see an Israeli commitment that that's the end state.
MBS even said that essentially during the meeting today. So, I think Trump sort of still holds out hope that they'll get there. MBS didn't rule out
the possibility of it, but he put conditions very clearly down in the meeting today.
FOSTER: And broadly, how would you say Trump's Middle East policy is shaping up? It's very different, isn't it? The kind of relationships he
has, the ties he's making from previous administrations.
RATNEY: Oh, it's highly personalized. And I think what I'm seeing is that most of the leaders in the region are starting to adapt to that. You know,
it was a long time coming. But when you look at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit, which sort of cemented the Gaza ceasefire, you had a lot of Middle Eastern
leaders essentially there to show support for Trump. You had a un security council resolution passed just yesterday with unusual language that
normally wouldn't have made it through the security council, but it made it through because Arab Middle Eastern leaders wanted this to happen.
I think, interestingly enough, they want to keep Trump in the game. They saw it produce a ceasefire in Gaza, which had eluded President Biden for a
long time. And I think they see President Trump putting pressure on the Israeli prime minister in a very unusual way. And I don't think they want
to see that end. So, they're sort of adapting to this personal relationship. And they're kind of living with it.
FOSTER: Okay. Michael Ratner, we appreciate your time today, joining us from Washington. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Still to come, they were one of the most famous set of twins of the 1950s and `60s. And now, they've both passed away. The details of their death
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:49:27]
FOSTER: Entertainment duo the Kessler twins have died by assisted suicide at the age of 89. The German twins, Alice and Ellen Kessler, rose to fame
in the 1950s, embodying the esthetic of the 1950s and `60s showgirl. They represented Germany at the Eurovision Song Contest in 1959, and appeared
multiple times on "The Ed Sullivan Show". The twins had told an Italian newspaper last year they wanted to go away together on the same day, their
deaths were confirmed by the German Society for Humane Dying. Assisted dying is legal in Germany under certain conditions.
[15:50:01]
Joining me now is Professor Lukas Radbruch, chair of the palliative medicine at the University Hospital Bonn in Germany.
Really appreciate your time today. Just explain to us, you know, how Germany struggled with this story, as many countries do with this issue.
LUKAS RADBRUCH, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF PALLIATIVE MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL BONN: Yes, we -- the whole issue is something that Germany has
been struggling for a number of years now to be honest. Assisted suicide was never illegal in Germany, so there has been legislation from 2015 to
`20 prohibiting assisted suicide if it was done in a businesslike manner. So, organizations could not do it. But the individual physician or family
caregiver would not be punished, if we would do something like that.
The German federal constitutional court overturned that in 2020, and since then there is no legal requirement actually on suicide assistance. And it's
really broader than in any country worldwide, because, for example, there is no restriction on severe illness or life limiting disease. It should be
available to everybody who does a volunteer and sincere request.
For the Kessler twins, that's probably true. They talked about this for more than a year before it's also probably a little bit sad because they
both were healthy and, well, living alone in their house with no major physical impairment, or cognitive decline.
So, one of the questions would really be, why not wait some more and enjoy life to the fullest and the longest possible?
FOSTER: Do you think the country will reevaluate that and perhaps add some legal restrictions, which you say currently aren't there?
RADBRUCH: Well, actually, the German constitutional court gave that as homework to the parliament and said that probably there needs to be a
regulatory framework to protect the vulnerable and prevent misuse. I'm not sure whether for the twins this was misused because there were, as I said,
there were -- they expressed their volunteer wish. But German parliament hasn't been able to do that in the five years that have passed since the
ruling of the constitutional court.
There were two attempts in parliament to draft such regulation, but both were turned down. There is a group of parliamentarians right now working on
a new draft, but that may take some longer time. And until then, were kind of left to the organizations. Some of them have their own rules and
regulations, like the German association for humane dying, which has some pretty strict rules, and they're trying to adapt that as well. But it's
more voluntary and there's no -- as I said, there's no federal regulations in place. It's much more liberal than, for example, the federal states and
the U.S.
FOSTER: I think what was interesting about the Kessler twins as well, because there's been so much debate about this in Germany, but you don't
actually hear about the people who do die by assisted suicide, do you? Because they're anonymous cases. But, you know, when there's a very public
case like this that people, many people in Germany grew up with these twins, then it suddenly sheds a whole new light on it, doesn't it?
So, this is a very, you know, made the debate very real for people, when in the past. It was quite academic.
RADBRUCH: Well, there has been continuous press activities, media activities about assisted suicide in the last years and even before this is
a topic that is discussed, discussed very much. There is also a self- regulation from the media in Germany because, you know, suicide prevention is also a big issue.
And we know that if the media reports on suicides favorable or not, then that may lead to a rise in subsequent suicides. We had the one of the
German football players, national players the goalkeeper, anchor committed suicide some years ago, and you could really notice how similar suicides on
train tracks increased in subsequent days, and even months. So, the German media was really reluctant to report on them. They reported on the death,
but not on the assisted suicide. At least many of them did. And only now there is rather careful comments in the journals and newspapers and radio
and TV.
And quite often with the with the addition that, you know, if you feel like suicide, call the local helpline.
FOSTER: Okay. Lukas Radbruch, really appreciate you joining us today on a very sensitive issue. Importantly, help is available if you or someone you
know is struggling with suicidal thoughts or mental health matters.
[15:55:01]
In the U.S., call or text 988. The suicide crisis lifeline globally, the International Association for Suicide Prevention and Befrienders Worldwide
have contact information for you for crisis centers around the world.
Finally, tonight, Cambridge Dictionary has unveiled its 2025 word of the year. Parasocial. It was actually coined back in 1956 by sociologists. But
the academic term has now become more mainstream. It refers to a connection people feel with someone they don't know, or even something like A.I.
Cambridge cited the example of Taylor Swift, who announced her engagement to NFL star Travis Kelce and received an outpouring of feelings from fans.
They also used ChatGPT. We're not suggesting she's an A.I.
I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW.
Stay with CNN. We'll have more after the break.
END
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