Return to Transcripts main page
What We Know with Max Foster
Epstein Files Bill Now On Trump's Desk, Awaiting Signature; DOJ: Full Grand Jury Never Saw Final Comey Indictment; Source: Trump Admin. Quietly Working On Peace Plan With Russia; Israel Launches Multiple Airstrikes Across Gaza. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 19, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:30]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: The White House says Donald Trump will sign a bill to release the Epstein files.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
We are watching the House very closely indeed to see whether Donald Trump will sign that bill on the Epstein files, as promised. It could be today.
Of course, it's now on his desk, we understand, after both chambers of Congress approved the legislation in a rare show of unity and rapidity.
In fact, the bill requires the Justice Department to release all files relating to the late child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein within 30 days.
Senators from both parties are urging the DOJ to fully comply.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Just released the damn files, period. I don't care about how the sausage is made. I just want it out in the open for everybody
to consume.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Survivors of Epstein's crimes have been waiting years for these files to see the light of day. One says she absolutely expects roadblocks
ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY ROBSON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I think there will be specific names redacted heavily. And I'm not talking about the survivors. It's
unfortunate that it's come down to that. But when you lose trust and you play the flip flop and the back and forth, and especially with, you know,
women and survivors that have already had misplaced trust and have lost hope in our government to do the right thing, you know, what else do you
want from us?
You want us to believe that this is all like moving fast. Theres no hidden agenda, and this is just going to be handed to us on a silver platter,
like, we have to be very honest with ourselves. And this is just one more obstacle that we've overcome. But we do have a long road in front of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Kevin Liptak is at the White House.
It may well be a long road, mightn't it, Kevin? But it could start today when he signs that document. I mean, what do you know of the plan?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, and the White House had said that the president would sign this essentially as soon as he
received it. So, we expect that that will be a very quickly. I think the president, in his mind, just wants to put this past him, you know, for so
long he had resisted getting these documents out. He had tried to cajole Republicans into opposing this measure, compelling their release before
eventually doing a 180 when it became clear that one that wasn't working, and two, it was only drawing more attention to the matter.
But the president has been pretty explicit that he's just ready to move on and turn focus to all of the other items on his agenda. So, it would stand
to reason that he wants to get this signed and over with pretty quickly. But we haven't heard just yet that he has done that. Of course, this won't
be over even when he signs it, because now it will go to the Justice Department and the Justice Department will have to determine what to
release, when to release it, how to release it.
You know, at this point, we don't even really know what the, quote, "Epstein files" are. It was not that long ago that Pam Bondi, the attorney
general, said that there wasn't even anything called the Epstein files. And now she is saying that she will, quote, follow the law in releasing what
they have.
But what exactly those contents are, I don't think anyone, at least in the public at this point, knows there are some exemptions in this bill about
what can be released. For example, if there's classified material, if there is victims' identities, if there's images of child sex abuse, all of that
would remain under wraps.
You also have this question of whether the ongoing investigation that the president ordered up last week into Democrats who are mentioned in these
files could potentially hamper the release. Remember, he instructed the Justice Department to investigate Democrats like Bill Clinton and Larry
Summers and others who were named in those emails that we saw last week. And so, whether or not the Justice Department uses that as a pretext to
withhold some of these documents, we just don't know.
Now, when Pam Bondi was speaking earlier today, she promised to be transparent. She said that there was new information revealed that caused
her to change course. Remember, she kind of officially closed the Epstein case earlier this year, but is now reopening, according to her, because
there was new information.
And so even though the president I think very much wants to move on from this, I think it's evident that with his signature today and with the
Justice Department's sort of mandate to get these documents out, that in many ways this is only just beginning.
FOSTER: Yeah, it really is. Let us know as soon as it's signed. Thank you so much, Kevin.
Well, Harvard Professor Larry Summers has resigned from the board of OpenAI amid the fallout over the Epstein files. Emails released last week by a
House committee show years of personal correspondence between Summers and Jeffrey Epstein, including Summers making sexist comments and seeking
Epstein's romantic advice.
[15:05:09]
Summers is a former U.S. treasury secretary who once served as Harvard's president. Harvard school paper says the university is launching its own
investigation.
U.S. federal prosecutors have made a stunning admission in court. Former FBI Director James Comey is fighting to get his case dismissed, and the
interim U.S. attorney has now conceded to the judge that the full grand jury never reviewed the full indictment handed up against Comey.
CNN's Katelyn Polantz has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: A revelation in the federal court this morning that changes the tone of the case against James
Comey, the former FBI director.
We were here at this courthouse listening to legal arguments over whether this case had been brought for unfair reasons by the direction of the
president. But the judge in this case, Michael Nachmanoff, here in the Eastern District of Virginia. He grilled the prosecutors on exactly what
happened with the grand jury when they approved the indictment and what they said, what both the prosecutor who is taking the lead in the courtroom
on this case, his name is Tyler Lemons, and Lindsey Halligan, the interim U.S. attorney here in this district sent by Trump, who had secured that
indictment against Comey. They both confirmed that the full grand jury did not look at and approve the document that is now the charges against Comey,
two charges related to his 2020 congressional testimony, where he is accused of lying, misleading Congress.
The way that this came out in court is that the judge wanted to make sure this was the case. There were missing minutes of the grand jury transcript.
He knew that the grand jury had debated for two hours, and that there had been the approval of two charges or an agreement from the grand jury of two
charges, but not a third, that the U.S. attorney's office wanted to levy against James Comey.
But then he asked, what did the prosecutors do? Did they go back and present this document to the grand jury? Was the indictment in this case a
document that was never shown to the grand jury? That's when the prosecutors said, no. The judge took a minute to collect his thoughts, then
had Halligan confirmed this was indeed the case?
We're going to be hearing more from the Justice Department later in the day about what this means, what they perceive it means. There could be a lot of
different ways this could go from here, but at very least it's going to help James Comey argue that things were not as they see the way they should
have been, whenever the prosecutors took this case through this court against James Comey initially, and also as they fight for access to grand
jury records, it could very well play into that as well.
Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Now, the White House quietly working on a new peace plan that would bring an end to the war between Russia and Ukraine. That is, according to a
source familiar with the matter, who says U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff has been leading discussions with the Kremlin. Russian sources also confirmed the
high level talks.
A U.S. delegation is in Turkey, where Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with his Turkish counterpart as they try to jumpstart the
peace process.
Well, amid those diplomatic efforts, Russia launched a massive attack in western Ukraine. Kyiv says airstrikes hit two apartment buildings, killing
25 people and injuring dozens more. A Ukrainian official says entire families are still unaccounted for.
Tension in the region remains high. NATO scrambled fighter jets over neighboring Poland and Romania after Russian drones invaded their airspace.
Our Nick Paton Walsh has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A particularly horrific night in western Ukraine, normally safer compared to
the capital and the country's east. But it seems certainly one KH-101 missile hitting one, possibly two residential apartment blocks, causing the
majority of the dead of 25 killed. Three of those children across the country in this particularly horrific series of strikes, 92 injured, 18 of
those children as well. Nearly 500 drones launched in this attack, and nearly 50 missiles as well.
The extent of Russian activity causing several NATO nations to respond. Poland closed two eastern airports briefly and scrambled fighter jets, and
Romania says that a drone entered into its airspace and caused it to scramble Eurofighters and F-16s.
At the same time, Russia claims it shot down four ATACMS missiles supplied by the United States that were fired into its Voronezh region. Ukraine has
claimed.
So particularly intense night in the skies and significantly distant to the message of a potential new avenue for diplomacy that's been pushed by
senior Russian officials and indeed encourage, it seems to by the White House as well. It's unclear what this new initiative that seems to be
between the Kremlin and U.S. presidential envoy Steve Witkoff involves, in terms of the detail, there's been some reporting suggesting there might be
28 points here, but it's precisely exactly what Russia is willing to offer, that this will all hinge upon, particularly given the new hard line
approach of the Trump administration.
[15:10:09]
On the battlefield. Russia is seeing potentially its best weeks in, you might argue the past year, particularly around the embattled city of
Pokrovsk and to the south of that in Zaporizhzhia, where we've seen some substantial advances in the past week or so. Ukraine's President Volodymyr
Zelensky in turkey to try and kick start possibly a separate diplomatic initiative.
Look, it's clear both sides want to convey the notion that they need peace here. But for Russia's part, it is seeing success on the front lines and
indeed an ability to penetrate deep into Ukraine that we saw last night that would suggest it's seeing progress in terms of the violence its
willing to inflict on Ukraine. That wouldn't necessarily be compatible with a peace deal at this stage.
But another particularly horrific night in Western Ukraine, with a particularly large death toll. The injured and dead involving children.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Israel has launched multiple airstrikes across Gaza some six weeks after a fragile Israel-Hamas ceasefire took effect. Health officials from
various hospitals say at least 28 people were killed in the strikes. The Israeli military says its forces struck Hamas targets across Gaza after
members of the militant group fired on its troops.
CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Jerusalem.
It doesn't really sound like a ceasefire anymore, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's not if you just look at it through the prism of today, certainly not the IDF responding,
they say to fire by what they describe as terrorists. They say no IDF were injured. The strikes 28 people that we're aware of from Palestinian health
officials killed. Of those, nine were told were children, eight of them were women. The most deadly strike in Zaytoun, which is just south of the
center of Gaza City.
So that sort of puts it in northern Gaza, 13 people killed there in a strike on a building, four of them, again, victims were children. Four of
them were women as well. Also 13 people killed in the southern part of Gaza and a couple of other people killed in other areas.
Now Hamas has responded to this by saying they're calling on the United States to restrain Israel in this situation. The last couple of times,
there have been breakdowns in the ceasefire. It has gone back to a to a ceasefire again. The last one took almost 24 hours before the situation was
resolved.
And it does seem to be if it's we're in that sort of cycle at the moment, Israel says its been struck and then it strikes back. But in that strike
back, were seeing reported by Palestinian health officials, multiple women and children being killed and 77 other people injured as well during the
day. Not yet clear if this round of strikes is over yet.
FOSTER: Okay, Nic Robertson, thank you for joining us from Israel.
Now, just across the border in southern Lebanon, the Israeli army is ordering residents to evacuate several buildings. The IDF cites alleged
Hezbollah activity in the area. The warning comes after an Israeli strike on a Palestinian refugee camp near Sidon. The Lebanese health ministry says
more than a dozen people were killed there.
Still to come, a painting with a wild past sells for a record breaking amount at auction. The details later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Now to newly freed Israeli hostage who's back at home with his family and will meet with President Trump in Washington tomorrow. Bar
Kupershtein describes how his father his faith rather helped him survive the conditions during his time in captivity. He says he plans to talk about
all of this with the American president.
CNN's Oren Liebermann had a chance to speak with him ahead of that meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Bar Kupershtein, thank you for sitting down with us. How are you and how is it to be back in Israel?
BAR KUPERSHTEIN, FREED ISRAELI HOSTAGE: It's an amazing feeling, there is excitement every day when you wake up in the morning here and you are alive
and breathing. I thank God every day for this.
LIEBERMANN: Take me back to the 7th of October. What do you remember from that day?
KUPERSHTEIN: Everything. It is etched here in my mind for the rest of my life.
LIEBERMANN: You came out of captivity a month ago. You've told your story. You've spoken at Hostages Square. What is it that even when they hear your
story, people simply can't understand about what you went through?
KUPERSHTEIN: There were moments when they tried to execute us, when they starved us, when they abused us, whether with beatings, physically,
verbally, depriving us from basic human conditions. It was awful, you feel like the most miserable person in the world. Whatever we went through, we
said among ourselves that we are simply in hell. I think that God put us in a kind of test. We told ourselves that we are now at the lowest point, the
bottom of the bottom, and from there we can only go up.
LIEBERMANN: You've talked about your religion and how it became stronger while you were in captivity. How? Why?
KUPERSHTEIN: In captivity, one really connects to God, you talk to him, not once or twice -- I was supposed to be killed, in bombings or something else
in these whole two years, every day was a miracle that I stayed alive -- and you want to express gratitude for that, so you give what you can of
yourself.
LIEBERMANN: You're going to the United States. You're going to meet President Donald Trump. What are you going to say to him?
KUPERSHTEIN: First of all, thank you very much. He played a big part in us getting out of there, and I don't know what else, I guess whatever is in my
heart. I see him as an emissary of God. God said we needed to get out of there and he was the emissary. He did it.
LIEBERMANN: Bar, thank you for your time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Oren Liebermann there.
Now, it's one of the most controversial cases in recent U.S. history. But the U.S. government's indictment of the former FBI director, James Comey,
could soon completely fall apart. This after Donald Trump's own attorney general admitted to a major misstep in the grand jury courtroom. Interim
U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan says she did not present the final charges that James Comey now faces to a full grand jury for approval.
Comey is accused of lying during a 2020 hearing about whether he ever authorized leaks to the press.
[15:20:05]
And he's pleaded not guilty.
So, what we want to know is, could the case against James Comey be thrown out?
Joining me now is CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson.
Thank you.
Must be fascinating for you this case. But as I understand it, there isn't technically an indictment in this case right now.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There may not be, Max. I mean, there are some procedural regularities that are very troubling. So just to reset,
whenever you want as a prosecutor, to hold someone accountable, you go to a grand jury to seek what's called an indictment.
What is a grand jury? A grand jury consists of 23 members of the community, a simple majority of which that's 12 need to vote out an indictment. What
is an indictment?
A document that says not that you're guilty. But number one, there's reason to believe that a crime was committed. And number two, that you committed
it. However, the grand jury needs to vote on that, as noted by a majority. And if the document is not shown to them with respect to, you know, the
actual final charges and signed off on, then where's the indictment after all?
So, from a procedural perspective, there was an admission by Ms. Halligan, who presented the case that the grand jury never saw the final draft of
what actually, the indictment was. And so how can they then approve the actual indictment if they've never had the opportunity to review it? So
that's a major procedural irregularity.
In addition to which, briefly, there's an issue as to whether or not she was lawfully appointed to be the United States attorney. And so, the
argument by the defense is, if you're not a lawfully appointed United States attorney, you don't have any basis to act on behalf of the
government. Therefore, you shouldn't be presenting a case to any grand jury.
And so, on those procedural bases and plenty of others, this particular case looks to be certainly not on fertile ground.
FOSTER: Yeah, it could be. You know, this indictment issue, it could be a clerical error. Right? So, they could just tidy it up quite quickly. But,
you know, there might be an issue that there isn't actually an indictment that could get through, which would be sort of a more fundamentally flawed
part of the whole trial.
JACKSON: Well, listen, a clerical error, okay. That's convenient. And perhaps that does carry the day.
But even if it's a clerical error, there are some more substantive issues. Those are simply the procedural issues. There are substantive issues
relating to the indictment itself. Like what? Like whether or not this was a vindictive prosecution.
You don't indict people in the United States because you don't like them. You indict people because they've committed a crime. That's number one.
Number two, if there was guidance that was reviewed by career prosecutors, noting that we're going to pass here because there is no such crime that we
could move forward on, why is it that you're indicting him when there exists a -- there might exist -- there may not exist, the Department of
Justice didn't say a memo saying that this shouldn't be prosecuted.
And that's not all. In addition to that, you have Truth Social post, that's the social media network of the president, in which he's pretty much
directing his Department of Justice to prosecute. They say, oh, no, that's not a direction by the president. That was he was just waxing poetic.
You can't actually go after your political enemies. You could. But there needs to be some underlying basis. And so, when you have a social media
post saying go get them, and then you have the removal of one U.S. attorney, the installment of your personal lawyer, an indictment within
days of which it could have been an indictment, Max, because the statute of limitations was ending. Boy, does that smell fishy, fishy, indeed.
And so, that -- and that's the tip of the iceberg. There are other issues the judge is considering, but it really looks like it's on thin ice.
FOSTER: He's not going to decide today as we understand it, he's given the Justice Department until 5:00 p.m. to address this issue with the
indictment. So we'll learn a bit more then.
What about, you know, if this case does collapse, could there be a case against Halligan, considering all of the things that you've outlined so
far?
JACKSON: I think you may very well see that. I mean, there are consequences. Certainly. You know, everyone has a boss, right? And she
decided to take this appointment and to move forward against Mr. Comey, against apparently a career prosecutor's advice against apparently there
being any evidence which would suggest he did anything wrong against apparently the procedures in place in which you can secure a lawful
indictment. All of that has consequences.
And so, yes, she may have been directed by the president to do something, but as long as the direction is followed and it's based upon evidence, it's
based on best practices, it's based on the law, the facts, the evidence, that's fine. But when you're misstating things, which we didn't even talk
about to a grand jury, as its alleged, she may have in terms of saying that Mr. Comey may, at trial, have to explain this away. What?
You don't have to explain anything away. You have a Fifth Amendment right against testifying. No person accused of a crime needs to testify. And so
that's something that was said.
In addition to saying that they could perhaps, believe that there might be other evidence other than what I showed you, ladies and gentlemen, that's
even more compelling.
[15:25:05]
So, yeah, go ahead and indict him. And so, these are things that are troubling. When you have a license to practice law, right? It's a
privilege, not a right. And we have a bar association that's very active with regard to going after people who abuse that right. And so, I think
there could be consequences with the bar and there could be consequences in terms of other types of misconduct.
This Department of Justice is not going to investigate her, however, because she worked for the president. So, she has immunities there. They're
not going to prosecute their own. But I think she may have some explaining to do with respect to, at least administratively, the people who oversee
her license.
FOSTER: Joey, thank you.
JACKSON: Thanks, Max.
FOSTER: Still to come, is a possible peace deal with Russia in the works? We'll tell you what the Trump administration might be quietly pushing for.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: The Trump administration is quietly working on a new peace deal with Russia to end the war in Ukraine, and that's according to a person
familiar with the talks. Sources tell CNN, President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, has been in the center of those talks.
Witkoff is said to be moving quickly since Moscow indicated a renewed openness to a deal. Those discussions come on the heels of a major Russian
attack in western Ukraine that Kyiv says killed at least 25 people. Three of those victims were children. Dozens of others were injured. Ukrainian
officials warn the death toll could rise to.
Kylie Atwood joins us now from Washington.
We've also had this confirmed, haven't we, from the Russian end. So, it is interesting.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it is. We're hearing it from the U.S. side and the Russian side now that they are hammering out
the details of a potential new plan that could drive an end to the conflict when it comes to the Ukraine war.
[15:30:05]
Of course, there have been multiple iterations of these efforts, these conversations over the years, and particularly over, you know, the last
eight to 10 months or so, the Trump administration. But those efforts had greatly stalled in recent months and recent weeks. So, the fact that
they're coming back to the fore now after, of course, the U.S. imposed some very aggressive sanctions on Russia's energy sector, are significant.
However, we don't have a sense for, you know, the role that Ukraine has played or will play here. And that's a critical piece of this to look at.
We saw that President Zelenskyy actually met today in Turkey with President Erdogan. And he said that they discussed frameworks for what he said on
Twitter were frameworks for conversation that he supported, but also said that Ukraine would be ready to work in other meaningful formats.
So not necessarily making any commitments to what the path forward looks like here in terms of getting Russia and Ukraine into the same room for
these conversations, we do know that the U.S. secretary of the army, Dan Driscoll, is in Ukraine today, and he will be discussing a way to drive an
end to this conflict. It's significant that he's there speaking with the Ukrainians just because he's a bit of a new player when it comes to driving
an end to the conflict from the Trump administration side, that has been a portfolio that's been owned primarily by Keith Kellogg. So maybe they're
hoping to insert some new players into this as they're trying to get these efforts renewed and ongoing.
But this comes as an administration official said there is interest from the Russian side to engage here. So, clearly, Trump administration is
trying to take advantage of that, whether or not they can put a deal on the table, that the Ukrainians would be in a position to accept is, of course,
the major question.
FOSTER: Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Always the issue with this? You can't negotiate between two sides if one of the sides isn't there. But is
it your understanding that Trump sees himself as a negotiator or Witkoff sees himself as a negotiator? He can then go to Ukraine with this plan and
then go back to Russia? Or do you get the sense that this is a deal that they're going to make with Russia and Ukraine can like it or lump it?
ATWOOD: I don't think we know the answer to that. I do think, however, the administration has been very clear that they want to drive an end to this
conflict. And when it comes to President Trump's perspective on Ukraine, it has ebbed and flowed over the course of the last year or so. At times being
more -- seemingly on the side of Russia, at other times favoring the position of Ukraine.
And it really seems to depend on the last person that he spoke to in terms of which side he is favoring. So, we'll have to watch and see where this
goes. But rest assured that Europeans would be concerned about the U.S. forcing Ukraine into any deal that they do not want to accept.
FOSTER: And not being involved as well.
Kylie, thank you so much, indeed.
Now it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street and stocks are mixed. A jump in alphabet shares helped the S&P 500 gain some ground.
This is our business breakout.
Donald Trump says 270 million or billion rather dollars of business deals were signed today at an investment conference in Washington. The event was
organized by Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Trump addressed the attendees, which included CEOs and senior execs from many of
America's biggest companies.
October's U.S. jobs report, which was canceled because of the government shutdown, will now be folded into November's report instead. The Bureau of
Labor Statistics says the numbers will not be published as their own separate release. The next numbers will be released on December the 16th.
The problems continue for U.S. retail giant Target after cutting its full year profit guidance on Wednesday, shares in the company have already
fallen 35 percent this year. And last month, Target said it was cutting 8 percent of its workforce.
A painting with a wild pass sells for a record-breaking amount at auction. Bidders battled it out for 20 minutes, not that long, over this painting by
the Austrian artist Gustav Klimt. Now the painting, titled portrait of Elisabeth Lederer, made history as the most expensive work of modern art
ever sold at auction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is it. At $205 million, here it is for Elisabeth Lederer portrait, only at Sotheby's here in the Breuer. The
Klimt, Julian, is yours. Congratulations. Congratulations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: In the end, the artwork ended up costing more than $236 million. The six-foot-tall painting was once stolen by the Nazis, then nearly
destroyed in a fire during World War Two.
[15:35:04]
What we don't know is, is modern art the next big thing for investors?
Joining me now is senior reporter at Artnet, Katya Kasakina.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I mean, we've been asking that question for many years. We've got a different category of painting here, though, haven't we? I mean, it's an
extraordinary piece. It's world famous. It's defining for the artist.
So, I guess those pieces are always going to do well.
KATYA KAZAKINA, SENIOR REPORTER, ARTNET: Yes, this is pretty much as good as it gets. It comes with an incredible provenance from the collection of
one of the greatest art patrons in America, and arguably in the world in recent decades, Leonard Lauder. And it's been in his house for most of he
bought it in 1985. And he lived with it for many years until 2017, when he lent it to a museum in Canada.
And, you know, so it's a fantastic painting. They're very rare. These full size, full length portraits of Klimt come to the market. And so, plus,
Leonard Lauder's provenance. It was estimated in the region of $150 million. And the bidding started at $130 million.
And very quickly, five people were competing for it. Which is a very high level to have so many people at that price point. And then the sixth one
jumped in at $171 million and then pushed it ever higher. The final bid was $205 million.
FOSTER: Yeah.
KAZAKINA: We're looking at the underbid. That's David Galperin from Sotheby's. And he jumped in at 171 million.
FOSTER: I know it was extraordinary. And there's a -- you know, there's not that many people in the world that can afford this sort of thing, but when
they're buying it, they know it's not going to go down in price, don't they? Because if you get like a, you know, a perfect piece from a really
sort of historic artist, they always make money.
KAZAKINA: Well, they make money. I mean, we don't have so much data on the works that are being bought at such high levels. Coming back to the market
and being resold at even higher levels. The hope is that, yes, they are like gold, right? And they will hold their value.
But there really hasn't been so many opportunities to test this theory, to be honest. It is more than investment and maybe an investment. It's a
bragging rights. It's a trophy. You know, it brings someone into this very small club of billionaires who own this ultimate masterpieces.
And so, you know, so it has other values in addition to just financial value.
FOSTER: The lower end of the market, as I understand it, is very different, though right now. Theres a lot of trepidation. A lot of people you know,
holding off because they're worried about losing their money, which is, you know, a general story across all investments right now, isn't it, that
people are worried about risk? So perhaps that's supporting the top of the market where there's less risk?
KAZAKINA: Well, it's interesting. The art market has been in contraction since 2022. And prices we've seen on many levels decline for some of the
most prominent living artists, emerging artists. And you know, I think that that created a security for sellers, right, who have discretion whether to
put their price works for auction or not.
And so, we really haven't seen this kind of a level of masterpieces in the past. I would say three years. So, these, of course, are estates, right?
So, this is somebody died and their heirs decided to put it on the market.
And I think that the market was really waiting for something like the Lauder collection because, like I said before, it's really kind of the word
that art market really likes to use is the ultimate. Like, this is a plus. Work provenance and everything.
So, you know, there was so much excitement in the room because finally we had this type of work. And then the result was very encouraging for the
market. So, of course, the question is, is it going to translate into the rest of the segment? Right? Will it translate to gallery sales? Will it
translate to other auctions, other types of categories?
You know, art market has been really struggling. A lot of galleries have closed in the past year. And so, this kind of a sale couldn't have come
soon enough.
FOSTER: We'll watch it. Katya, thank you so much for joining us.
KAZAKINA: Thanks for having me.
FOSTER: Nine years ago, he was paralyzed from the waist down.
[15:40:02]
Now he's preparing to ski the south pole. We'll meet the man who's got this remarkable story, and he's redefining the impossible, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Skiing to the south pole is a challenge that most people would say was impossible, but Darren Edwards isn't most people. And impossible isn't
a word that he wants to use. Nine years ago, he was paralyzed from the waist down after a climbing accident. Since then, the idea of redefining
the impossible has become something of a mantra for him. He's kayaked the length of Great Britain and skied from his wheelchair across Europe's
largest ice cap.
Next month, this record-breaking adaptive adventurer will ski more than 200 kilometers across Antarctica to reach the South Pole in just 20 days.
Edwards joined me in the studio earlier, where he told me about the moment his life changed forever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARREN EDWARDS, ADAPTIVE ADVENTURER: Growing up, I think as a teen I discovered a love. And passion for mountaineering and for climbing, and
that really became such a core part of my life and who I was. And I was very lucky to have adventures around the world in that. And that's kind of
where I saw my future. I thought that in the next few years, I would tick off certain things, and one day, I would climb Everest. That was like my
kind of ultimate goal.
And on a weekend in a beautiful sort of summers day, I went climbing in North Wales with my best friend. You know, someone I climbed with for 10
years. By this time, and we went to a particular rock face that has a brilliant title for what was going to happen. If you want to frame it,
because that -- well, that rock face is called World's End, and it kind of has a reputation for being dangerous, and it's this imposing 500-foot
cliff.
And when you're climbing in a pair, it's the lead climber that takes the risk. And on that day, I was leading. Matt was my best friend was belaying
me and protecting me with the rope. And we get to a ledge that's no more than six-foot wide. And there's one final section to the top, and we're
done.
[15:45:02]
And I kind of, you know, walk along that ridge, and I look up and I start to climb, and a couple of minutes later, I get to the top and you kind of
get that moment of feeling like you've conquered the world and you've done something difficult. I looked down at my best friend, gave him the thumbs
up, and I went to step forward to move away from the cliff towards safety.
And as I took that step, a section of rock that I stood on that was probably four foot wide by two foot collapsed beneath my feet with a split
second warning, a crack, a drop, and then it peeled off the top with me. Stood in the middle of it.
And I think for those next couple of seconds, I thought there was no way I was going to survive, and I wouldn't have survived had it not been for my
best friend who in the 3 or 4 seconds it took for me to go from here to here, risked his life to save mine. So, I hit this ledge. I landed on my
back. I broke my back on impact, and I instantly paralyzed myself.
So, as I began to tumble, there was nothing I could do to stop it. And as I was just about to slip and fall another 350 feet, Matt threw his body on
top of mine, pinned me to the floor, and in that moment, you know, earn the earn the title of best friend for the rest of my life.
And that started, you know, like a three-hour rescue from that face. And three of the most daunting vulnerable, scared hours of my life because I
knew almost instantly that I couldn't -- I couldn't move my legs. I couldn't feel anything below my chest. And I'm sure you can imagine that
you, in that moment, you really -- your whole world collapses on you.
FOSTER: Yeah. So, you obviously had a period of recovery. Mental recovery, I'm sure, as well. And then you reach a point where you make some sort of
change. Just take us through that.
EDWARDS: So, I think the physical scars here quicker than the psychological ones. So I was in intensive care. And then you go from intensive care to
five months of intensive rehabilitation where you're being built from the ground up and your weakest physical or psychological point. But those team
around you, the physios, the OTs, the nurses build you slowly back up.
But for me that five months was like the darkest five months of my life because I was trying to come to terms with a life where I couldn't be me
and I couldn't climb mountains and do the things I wanted to do, and I didn't really see the point. And that's when one of the physios probably
changed my life by saying to me that, you know, it's not about how you feel right now, it's about the man you want to become.
And she challenged me to think of me in four years' time, what do you stand for? Where are you? What have you achieved? And then retrace his steps to
right here, right now.
FOSTER: So, this Antarctic expedition is part of the same journey. This is something you wanted to do, but it's pretty crazy.
EDWARDS: Kind of. Yeah, kind of. So it's all been like a progression and evolution for me. And I think with every step I've taken, -- I've like --
I've challenged my own beliefs of what's possible. And we've called this expedition redefining impossible. I think really, in the broadest sense,
from day one, I was told how much I couldn't do and what's impossible.
And I think we're all guilty of limiting ourselves with the way that we think sometimes. And redefining impossible is about smashing through those
barriers and those limitations. So, we're attempting to set a new world record of skiing to the South Pole, doubling the current world record
distance. And Osiecki is a wheelchair without wheels, two skis, two poles, and a whole lot of grit and effort.
FOSTER: Upper body strength.
EDWARDS: Yeah, and teamwork.
FOSTER: Yeah.
EDWARDS: You know, like, you know, this my whole journey from my best friend saving my life to Dwayne, Lucy and Matthew coming with me to the
south pole, it's all about teamwork. And I think we redefine impossible together. Not alone.
FOSTER: But they're able bodied. And they would probably take a different route, wouldn't they? Because you would have to take a particular route. So
that's what you're talking about in terms of teamwork.
EDWARDS: Indeed. But I think like everything I've done, I've always wanted it not to, just to be good for somebody who is disabled but difficult for
anybody. So, for those three, this challenge will be physically really difficult. We're going to battle through, you know, conditions of minus 40
storms. The south pole is at 9,000 feet. I had no idea.
So, from day one, from our start point to our finish point, we are climbing the whole way. So, I think at the end of every day, it won't just be
Darren's knackered, it will be were all knackered, but were in this together, so. And I love that, you know, I want to do things that challenge
perceptions of disability and empower not just people with disabilities, but everybody in the broadest sense.
FOSTER: Yeah. Because the headline isn't actually the record for you, is it?
EDWARDS: No.
FOSTER: It's the -- what -- you explain.
EDWARDS: It's the -- I think it's the impact. Like I know what it feels like to be at your lowest point. You know, I know what it feels like when
you just can't see the hope. You can't see the light through the trees.
And you know, as a side story to, to me, you know, I lost my dad. My dad took his own life because of that in his darkest moment, he couldn't find
the way out. And I think for me, this expedition and my journey is, is for my dad.
[15:50:05]
And it's for everybody that's struggling and going through it. And we all face adversity, you know, sometimes we don't see it because people don't
share it. But we all know, you know, trouble and struggle and strife and adversity. And it's just about showing people that there's always a --
there's always a way through. And together we can do that.
So yeah, the world records one thing great, but the real reason behind it is to connect with people and empower them to push on and to do what Kate
said to think of right, four years' time, where do I want to be? And who knows where that will take them?
FOSTER: We're about to find out. Edwards is raising money for the spinal injuries charity Wings For Life. We'll keep you in touch with him
throughout his journey.
More news after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Really was a night of celebration and record breaking as some of the smallest footballing nations booked their spots at next year's FIFA
World Cup. Curacao became the smallest nation by population ever to qualify for World Cup, while Haiti ended its 51 year wait to return to football's
biggest stage and party time in Scotland.
Here's the moment they knew they'd qualified for their first World Cup since 1998.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is looking to go for goal from the halfway line is chipped straight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Patrick Snell joins us.
They didn't see it coming, I don't think, Patrick.
PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Max. Oh, to have been at Hampden Park in Glasgow last night. What a night for Scottish football. A
sizzling atmosphere and a match that will be talked about for decades to come. You know, you have to go back to France 1998 for the last time the
Scottish men's team reached a World Cup. The goals that Scotland scored, I just want to say Max against Denmark, just have to be seen to be believed.
A stunning overhead kick from Scott McTominay, the Napoli star, set the tone for the night.
Then we had a laser guided curler from Kieran Tierney in injury time no less when time was running out. And then if you thought that was good to
put the icing on the cake, a Kenny McLean chip from inside his own half, absolutely amazing scenes. A moment the Norwich city skipper will never
forget.
An instant classic of a match four two. The final Scotland celebrates the most famous of wins against the Danes, who are headed to the UEFA playoffs
now. Momentous achievement for Scottish football.
I think one of those where were you when moments, where were you when that happened? A huge night with emotions running very high indeed in Concacaf
qualifying as well. Rarely has a nil-nil draw been so wildly celebrated.
The result meaning, Curacao, what a scoreline for them. They went to the Jamaican capital city of Jamaica -- of Kingston and they get the point they
needed to take them to next year's North American World Cup. A truly historic result for a country, you know, their population just over 150,000
Curacao, ending up as the only undefeated nation in the tournament. They finished top of group B as well.
They're through to the World Cup for the first time in their history. They did it as well without having their storied head coach, Dick Advocaat, on
the bench. He had to return to the Netherlands last weekend for family reasons.
Curacao will be joined by Panama and Haiti as well. What a great story, Haiti is as well. They're through to the World Cup, Max, for the second
time in their history.
FOSTER: I should have been there for the party, Patrick. It looks amazing.
SNELL: Yeah. Maybe I'll get an invite next time.
FOSTER: Thanks for joining us. I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW.
Do stay with CNN.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS
