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What We Know with Max Foster

Maduro Pleads Not Guilty In NYC Courtroom; Trump: U.S. "In Charge" Of Venezuela After Maduro's Capture; Rodriguez Sworn In As New Leader After Maduro's Capture. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 05, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:21]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: Very good evening. I'm Isa Soares, coming to you from London.

Nicolas Maduro has returned to his jail cell in New York City after pleading not guilty to drugs, as well as weapon charges. And it caps

another dramatic day as the fate of the deposed Venezuelan president and his countrymen, of course, lies in the balance. We'll be live in New York

in just a moment.

First, this is how Laura Coates described the scene inside the courtroom to me just a few minutes ago. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It was an extraordinary moment, Isa, to watch somebody who proclaims to be the president of Venezuela inside of

Manhattan, United States, courtroom next to his wife. He was flanked by two attorneys. They had different counsel for each other. He was -- he was

tall. He was self-assured. He was taking copious notes.

Almost before the first ten minutes expired, he had already taken multiple pages of notes. He spoke in Spanish when he was addressed by the court,

asking if he was, in fact, Nicolas Maduro. He began instantly to talk about his innocence. He talked about being a prisoner of war, having been

captured in his very home.

The judge interrupted him and said, there will be plenty of time to discuss the legality of being removed from your home and any pending motions in

international law, but for now, I just want to know, are you Nicolas Maduro? Which he said Nicolas Maduro and talked about being innocent and

not having done what he is accused of having done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Laura Coates speaking to me earlier outside the courtroom in New York.

Meanwhile, conflicting messages from the Trump administration as the U.S. - - to the U.S. involvement in Venezuela going forward before Delcy Rodriguez was sworn in as Venezuela's acting president. That will happen in the last

hour.

If you were following us, that we brought you that live from Caracas, the U.S. president told reporters on Air Force One. The United States is in

charge. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're dealing with the people. We're dealing with the people that just got sworn in. And, don't

ask me who's in charge, because I'll give you an answer and it'll be very controversial.

REPORTER: What does that mean?

TRUMP: It means we're in charge. We're going to run everything. We're going to run it, fix it. We'll have elections at the right time. But the main

thing you have to fix is a broken country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, hours later, the U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting on Venezuela, where the ambassador, American Ambassador Mike Waltz,

looked to justify the Maduro mission and insisted the U.S. is not occupying Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: This is the Western Hemisphere. This is where we live, and we're not going to allow the western

hemisphere to be used as a base of operation for our nation's adversaries and competitors and rivals of the United States. You can't turn Venezuela

into the operating hub for Iran, for Hezbollah, for gangs, for human intelligence agents and other malign actors that control that country. You

cannot continue to have the largest energy reserves in the world under the control of adversaries of the United States, under the control of

illegitimate leaders and not benefiting the people of Venezuela and stolen by a handful of oligarchs inside of Venezuela.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more on all this. Kristen Holmes joins me now from the White House.

Kristen, great to see you. Help us make sense, then, of this mixed messaging we're hearing from the administration as we play there, Mike

Waltz saying at the U.N., we're not -- we're not going to occupy Venezuela. At the same time, President Trump saying and saying repeatedly, as we've

heard in the last couple of days, we're going to run it. So how does administration kind of square these two ideas?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and then you added what secretary rubio said, which was that were going to run policy

but not run the actual country, which is a whole other level on all of this. When we were talking to our sources, U.S. officials, they are telling

us that they are working right now to try and cobble together this interim government. And in doing so, they are focused on two things. One is a

stability within the administration or administrative stability, which is why you're seeing them kind of embrace the vice president, Delcy Rodriguez,

as the president, because they don't want to see a complete overthrowing of the Venezuelan government right now.

The other thing that they're focused on is the rebuilding of the oil infrastructure within Venezuela. You notice one of the things I didn't say

there was an immediate return to democracy, despite what they've said in the past. So, what we are told is that the United States plans on working

with Rodriguez, and what that looks like is a big question mark, because the way that President Trump tells it is that they want Rodriguez to do

whatever the Trump administration wants them to do.

[15:05:00]

Now, we have seen somewhat of a softening of stance when it comes to the now acting president of Venezuela. We saw her come out guns blazing after

Maduro was captured, saying essentially that this was a savage and brutal attack demanding the rightful President Maduro be returned.

Then came the next wave, which was essentially Rodriguez saying that she had asked the U.S. to cooperate, to work together a much softer tone. And

President Trump said that the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, had had what he described a cordial call with the now acting president of Venezuela.

But again, it seems as though they are still piecing all of this together. When you talk to U.S. officials behind the scenes, however, they are really

stressing the point that it's not as though the United States is going to be in there running the country. This is the United States kind of putting

the pressure on Rodriguez to run the country in the way that the United States wants that country to be run.

SOARES: I mean, the reality is we have very little in terms of detail, right? Or in terms of policy strategy on that front, because, you know, we

just saw Delcy Rodriguez being, of course, being sworn in in Caracas. And she said, I'm going to quote her, here. I come with pain, pain for the

suffering caused to the Venezuelan people after an illegitimate military aggression against our homeland. She then went on to talk about that

President Nicolas Maduro and the and the first lady, Cilia Flores, so still very much in tune.

I don't know if that's just lip service, but from a strategy point of view and a policy point of view, then what is the priority for the United

States? Because there are about 800 political prisoners inside the country. The word "democracy" wasn't even mentioned. Do we have a sense of what the

priorities are?

HOLMES: Yeah. And just to go back there, when you talk to U.S. officials about the rhetoric that we hear from Rodriguez, they are not worried about

it. They do believe and they have remained cautiously optimistic, that she is going to work with the United States, for whatever reason, that they

believe that we are unclear. But that is something that we are being told over and over again.

Now, in terms of what the priorities are, as you mentioned, no mention of democracy. We are told that the priorities are this idea of rebuilding the

oil infrastructure in the country. Something you've heard President Trump talk about at length? Now, when it comes to oil, one thing to note is were

also hearing mixed messaging on that, because part of this you're hearing from President Trump is this idea that the United States needs to seize

back oil that was stolen from them, or oil that rightfully belongs to the United States.

But when you talk to officials within the administration, they are mentioning several different factors when it comes to oil. One is the idea

of cutting off supply to places like Russia and China and Iran, trying to get our competitors out of the picture when it comes to Venezuela. So

that's one thing they're talking about, not necessarily this idea of just seizing it back. There's also the talk about these investments, U.S.

investments in Venezuela. What will that actually look like? Do these companies actually want to come back and invest in Venezuela? What is the

process behind that?

And I will tell you, you know, we're talking a lot about oil here. One of the things to keep in mind is that the now president of Venezuela was also

in charge of everything related to oil when it comes to the regime, the Maduro regime. And that was something that the Trump administration took

note of when they were planning kind of the demise or the capture of Maduro and what it would look like in the days afterwards.

SOARES: It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Of course, we haven't heard much about democracy. We also haven't heard anything about

sanctions being lifted, which has been incredibly crippling. So, we, I know, will continue to press.

Kristen Holmes, thank you very much indeed, live for us there at the White House.

As we mentioned, both Maduro and his wife pleaded not guilty today in court. They are charged with multiple counts of drug trafficking and

weapons offenses. Maduro told the court he had been kidnapped and said he was still the president of Venezuela. The attorney for Cilia Flores said

she had suffered severe bruises while being grabbed, and she said she needs medical attention.

The Maduros do not ask for bail at this time. Their next court appearance is set for mid-March.

Our senior U.S. justice correspondent, Evan Perez, is outside the courthouse in Manhattan.

Evan, good to see you. Happy New Year.

And what a -- what a way to start the new year. These images that we have seen out of New York, truly dramatic with Nicolas Maduro and Cilia Flores,

of course, inside the courthouse. Just give us a sense of what we heard and what we saw in terms of Maduros demeanor inside that courthouse behind you.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the first things that we noticed, Isa, was that he was essentially trying to take control of

this hearing. This is not a normal way how this goes. Just to lay this out for you. Normally what you do is you come in here and there's a

presentment, and then sometimes later on you have a formal plea process.

In this case, when the judge, Judge Hellerstein, asked Maduro to verify his name, which is a very perfunctory process, he launched into how he was

snatched from his home, that he was kidnapped, that he was illegally brought here, and that he is still the president of Venezuela.

[15:10:07]

And the judge stopped him and said, you know, we can deal with that later. Obviously, that is something that is going to be part of the legal process

going forward, right? The question certainly that that his lawyers have already raised is the legality of the U.S. action to essentially abduct the

leader of a foreign country. The U.S. if you read the indictment that was unsealed over the weekend, the U.S. is saying that he is de facto leader,

that they do not recognize that Maduro is the leader of Venezuela. Again, that's going to be part of the legal fight that goes forward.

For now, Maduro is back across the river in Brooklyn, New York. This is where the metropolitan detention center he's been held since he arrived

here in New York on Saturday. That is a pretty grim place. It's a notorious prison. And it is not just my words. It's the words of the Justice

Department's own inspector general that is cataloged a number of very inhumane conditions, as judges have called it, in that facility.

One of the problems there, of course, is medical care. Cilia Flores mentioned that she has some injuries, perhaps from the from the raid that

brought her here on Saturday. So all of those things you can expect that the lawyers are going to try to make an effort to try to ameliorate,

perhaps try to move them from that facility, which, again, is a fairly notorious place.

Between now and then, though, the legal process begins, we don't anticipate that this this case is going to trial for perhaps at least a year. The

indictment itself is very simple. However, the legal issues surrounding the abduction of this of the former leader of Venezuela are a lot more

complicated.

SOARES: Evan Perez, I know you'll stay across it for us. Live for us from New York. Thank you. Evan, good to see you.

Well, just hours after that hearing end and Delcy Rodriguez became Venezuela's new acting president. She was formally sworn in in the last

hour. In fact, she sworn in by her brother, who is the gentleman there in glasses after serving as Nicolas Maduros' vice president for many, many

years. Though she initially condemned Maduros capture, she's now offering an agenda of cooperation. That's a quote with the United States.

Over the weekend, President Donald Trump said the United States is in charge of Venezuela, and he warned Ms. Rodriguez if she doesn't do what's

right, she's going to pay a very big price.

Journalist Mary Mena has been following all the developments from Caracas.

Mary, great to have you with us again.

Just give us a sense then what we heard from her. I was going through the transcript of what she said. She alluded again to Nicolas Maduro, to Cilia

Flores as the president. Give us a sense of the mood and her words inside the national assembly.

MARY MENA, JOURNALIST: Well, since early in the morning, it was announced that it will be swearing in Delcy Rodriguez as the new acting president.

She's a 56-year-old politician and lawyer that has been the center of the attention over the past few days, but, Isa, an influential figure in the

government of Nicolas Maduro. We need to say that one of the words that they kept repeating in the national assembly is continuity, and that's what

the government, Isa, is sending the message to his followers that this is a continuation of the Maduro government.

Most of the people that were at the parliament belongs to the previous government of Nicolas Maduro. For example, one of the lawmakers is the son

of Nicolas Maduro, Nicolas Maduro Guerra, who also spoke on behalf of his family, saying that his family is being harassed by the U.S. Also, Jorge

Rodriguez spoke about how the president was kidnapped by U.S. security forces, but they will continue working towards -- to preserve the

sovereignty of the country.

Also, Rodriguez said so. But later, later in the last hours, Delcy Rodriguez has a messaging -- sending messages to the Trump administration

saying, for example, that she's open to an open agenda, a cooperative agenda with the U.S. and this is something unique and similar.

SOARES: Yeah, quite a fine balancing act that she will have to do, Mary. But let me pick up on what you said regarding the continuation.

Continuation there. Of course, members of Maduro's family, we also saw her brother, who's in charge of the national assembly, but she's also flanked

and has been flanked the last several days by two well-known men within Maduro government, of course, that is the interior minister as well as

defense minister. They are well known as the henchmen of Venezuela.

How -- how is this continuation being sold to the Venezuelan people? Venezuelans I know are anxious to speak out, but what is the mood inside

the country, Mary?

MENA: When you try to talk with people about this, you asked them do you think this is a real change in the country? Do you think something change?

So, everybody, everything stayed the same? Some people will tell you that they rather not to respond or answer that question, because they don't want

to mess with politics and they want to remain in silence.

Some people would tell you it is the same because we are seeing the same faces with the exception of the face of Nicolas Maduro, that now is facing

criminal charges in the U.S. Delcy Rodriguez is a well-known figure and it is important to say that is the first female president of Venezuela. But

she is, of course, not an elected position. She was not elected by the population. She's just handpicked by his predecessor, Nicolas Maduro, as it

was handpicked Nicolas Maduro by Hugo Chavez. And then he won the election that after Hugo Chavez died.

SOARES: We shall see how she manages. Of course, the pressures within Venezuela, within the Chavismo camp and, of course, the pressures from the

United States.

Mary, as always, thank you very much for your reporting out of Caracas in Venezuela.

While many experts have questioned the legality of the U.S. capture of Nicolas Maduro, the White House is seeking to justify the move as an

essential step to protecting the Western Hemisphere. Donald Trump over the weekend saying American dominance in the region will never be questioned

again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Under our new national security strategy, American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be questioned again. We are reasserting

American power in a very powerful way in our home region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more on this. I'm joined now by Leslie Vinjamuri. She's the president and CEO of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.

Leslie, great to have you on the show.

We played that a little clip from President Trump. We've also heard very similar words just in the last few hours from Mike Waltz, of course, at the

U.N. and from Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who said, I'm going to quote him here, Leslie, this is the Western Hemisphere. This is where we live.

And we're not going to allow the Western Hemisphere to be a base of operation for adversaries, competitors and rivals of the United States.

Just to frame this for us, because this started about -- talked to be about going after drug trafficking, right? And then democracy. And now, we're

talking about a bigger picture here.

LESLIE VINJAMURI, PRESIDENT & CEO, CHICAGO COUNCIL ON GLOBAL AFFAIRS: Sure. And this is, I think, what everybody is worried about it. We saw it in the

national security strategy that the United States has made it clear that this administration wants to enlist its friends to help secure its

dominance in the western hemisphere. And that is a, quite frankly, radical shift from the international order, which has been grounded in states in

sovereignty, in the U.N. charter and in a number of international institutions.

It has not been framed for eight decades as being about America, securing - - securing, controlling and using all necessary means to do so in the Western Hemisphere. So, it's a radical change, just definitionally. I think

many people, certainly Europeans and certainly those in Denmark and especially Greenland, will be googling to see whether they're in the

Western Hemisphere and guess what they are. And so, I think this is --

SOARES: Yeah.

VINJAMURI: -- obviously, you know, it's a very serious point. This is one of the real questions is, is this about Venezuela, Central America, Latin

America, or also about Europe?

SOARES: Look and I think it's important to point out I've reported numerously -- numerous -- on numerous occasions from, from Venezuela, you

know, Cuban intelligence is very present there. Russia has its claws on a lot of Venezuela, and it has for a long time the Chinese as well, in terms

of investment, of course, they rely heavily on Venezuelan oil, about 90 percent.

So, this has always been the case. So why now when you're talking about, you know, the United States going after seeking control of this Western

Hemisphere, why now you think, Leslie?

VINJAMURI: Well, I do think, you know, you've grounded it firmly. This is a U.S. that cares about geopolitical competition. China in America's

backyard. China -- the Chinese just visited Venezuela on Friday.

And when you put that together with a country that is rich in resources and potential if those oil reserves are tapped and exported, ceding that to

China to Russian influence, despite the fact that Donald Trump is friendly with Vladimir Putin on and off, is simply not something that this

administration wishes to see. And it's also willing to push the boundaries of what we have come to see as normal, expected, legitimate, international

behavior in order to secure that dominance.

And that's the thing that I think we are all finding surprising.

[15:20:03]

I think we're finding it, frankly, surprising and shocking when we woke up to see a leader captured. The dilemma, and we all know it is that this is

not a good leader. This is not a legitimately elected leader. This is a leader who has done, frankly, terrible things to his country. And so

there's an argument to be made that if the president had built a case, had built domestic and European and western support, had developed a strategy,

gotten people behind him, and made it clear that there was a limited goal, its possibly the case. We've seen it happen before, that he would have been

supported.

SOARES: Yeah, indeed. Look, let me put out to you and to our viewers what "The New York Times" editorial board has written. "By proceeding without

any semblance of international legitimacy," they write, "valid legal authority, domestic endorsement, Mr. Trump risks providing justification

for authoritarians in China, Russia and elsewhere who want to dominate their own neighbors. More immediately, he threatens to replicate the

American hubris that led to the invasion of Iran in 2003."

So just taking a step back, if you're a leader of, you know, of Denmark, obviously with Greenland or Mexico even, right, Mexico or any other

countries in Latin America, how do you react to this? How do you respond.

VINJAMURI: If you're a weak country, a weak in the sense of, you know, military capabilities? And America has a serious dedicated interest in you,

then you're deeply concerned about what to do. And it takes a long time to build up anything even approximating the kind of resources that one would

need to push off. The still most powerful country in the world. It's not actually possible.

So, then the question is, you know, what are your alternatives as you begin to build allies, partners and friends to -- I mean, it's shocking to say,

but to safeguard yourself against what previously for many countries has been their strongest ally and protector.

But, you know, there's a caveat here, which is that I don't think that it's the case that that America wishes to intervene in every country. It's

actually Donald Trump has made it pretty clear which countries he's interested in. So there's a sort of focal point here.

And to your broader question, will the Chinese use this as an incentive, as an open door for Taiwan and elsewhere? A lot of this isn't just signaling.

It's, you know, it comes down to deterrence. The United States still has a very important decision and role to play in deterring China or Russia or

any other country from aggressing and transgressing. The question is whether it will use that?

So, I think the number one concern here is the grave uncertainty that this U.S. administration has layered on to what's already a very difficult

dynamic geopolitically fraught moment in international relations. Having an America that is so deeply, unwilling to commit is, is very unsettling as

everybody's sitting in Europe knows, but also across the United States.

SOARES: And the irony is, if you're president Putin, you're looking at this, you are thinking, well, this could be a military operation of his

kind. And it goes back. And I'm sure you saw and this is circulating the Fiona Hill transcript, of course, to Congress.

And I want to get your thoughts on this because its important, because in 2019, Fiona Hill in her testimony to the U.S. Congress, said that the

Russians were kind of strongly signaling to the United States about some sort of swap arrangement between Venezuela and Ukraine. Page, I think, 19,

she says, and the Russians, at this particular juncture were signaling very strongly that they wanted to somehow make some very strange swap

arrangements between Venezuela and Ukraine. You want us out of your backyard.

So, I mean, do you buy this?

VINJAMURI: I mean, Fiona Hill is a very serious person.

SOARES: No, no, I don't mean -- I don't mean Fiona Hill. I mean the potential of some sort of arrangement here with Russia. Yes.

VINJAMURI: I buy the idea that this current U.S. administration is willing to engage in notions of swaps that many of us, deeply schooled, whether in

or out of government, would consider to be far beyond the pale, difficult to implement, hard to imagine that one would assume the credible commitment

of Russia. In any case, or that that's the key motivation.

But, you know, it's been several years. The facts on the ground have changed. Russia has invaded Ukraine. The United States has led so far a

coalition to resist that, to support Ukraine.

So, the context is not the same. And I think that matters fundamentally. But the basic notion, right? It sort of gets back to this broader question

of are there trades has been discussion of the possibility of a grand bargain, that Trump would allow China to take Taiwan, the United States

would have hemispheric dominance.

[15:25:07]

We know the story of spheres of influence. I think it's very muddy, very murky, very cloudy. But the broader question is Donald Trump willing to

support Europe in its defense of Ukraine? Is Donald Trump willing to deter Russia to, you know, maintain a policy of strategic ambiguity when it comes

to Taiwan? Is he willing to cross boundaries and borders?

Again, what we know is that we simply aren't being given any basis in which to feel confident or secure. And that is the fundamental problem. It's the

uncertainty. It's the unpredictability.

And it's, you know, some people would say it's the predictability that when Donald Trump says wants Greenland, that its potentially -- I mean, one

hates to even say it. It's potentially a very serious risk. It's in the western hemisphere. It's part of the world that is considered by this

administration to be important to its security. And for some reason, Donald Trump does not believe that the Europeans have what it takes to step up.

Therein lies a very serious challenge.

SOARES: We are and we are going to Greenland at some point this hour for their thoughts on this at this juncture.

Leslie, I can speak to you for hours. Thank you so much. Really fascinating.

VINJAMURI: Thanks.

SOARES: Leslie Vinjamuri there from Chicago.

And coming up, we'll have reaction from across Latin America to U.S. capture, of course, of Nicolas Maduro.

Do stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Welcome back.

Columbia's president is on high alert, saying he would take up arms again if the U.S. decides to attack him, or indeed his country. Columbia's

neighbors, Venezuela, and has come under a series of threats from U.S. President Donald Trump over the drug trafficking.

Over the weekend, Mr. Trump described President Gustavo Petro as a sick man who likes making cocaine and signaled the U.S. may be ready to attack.

David Culver reports from near the Venezuelan border on Colombia on how Colombia is responding.

[15:30:02]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of traffic going both Colombia, where we are, and Venezuela, which is that direction just

over this international bridge. And you can see the folks who are entering here into Colombia. A lot of them do this either daily or weekly. It's

pretty common. In fact, they'll go visit family, they'll go run errands, they'll even go to doctor visits and then return back to Venezuela.

Now what's interesting is in the past few days, obviously the significant changes, the removal of Maduro has put folks in a different mindset, but no

real sense of panic or expectation of immediate change.

And some people are even hesitant to speak with us about it. People who are coming from Venezuela who ultimately have to go back because that's where

they live, tend to be a bit more restrained in what they vocalize, perhaps fearing some repercussions once they go back in. Others are more vocal.

They'll tell you candidly that they're quite happy that he's gone, but they're also realistic in that they don't think anything's going to be

imminent as far as changes to their daily lives, particularly, people will mention the economy. They don't think that there's going to be some great

change to the economy that will allow them to find the opportunities that many of them have been seeking.

Now entering into Colombia, there is a massive military presence that has built up, and a lot of this is a signal for Washington, the defense

minister here in Colombia telling us a short time ago that he wants the U.S. to know that Colombia is focused on targeting those who are smuggling

drugs and spreading violence through the region. He's really trying to hit that message hard, because obviously, the rhetoric from the Trump

administration and from Washington has been in many ways accusatory towards the Colombian government for not doing enough, as Washington sees it.

Now, the troops are certainly spread out, and we've spent a lot of time with military personnel over the past 24 hours as they've been patrolling

along the 1300 miles between Colombia and Venezuela. That's the stretch of the border. And they're trying to not only signal to Washington, but also

to folks in Colombia that they're taking really large efforts and trying to make a clear stance that they're going to reinforce the border, they're

going to prevent, as they see it, any further violence from trickling in, should any sort of fracturing from within Venezuela cause spillover,

especially with armed groups, into Colombia.

And ultimately, they say their first priority is protecting Colombians. So that explains what we're seeing here in Colombia. As far as the

reinforcement of troops. But the uncertainty, well, that certainly remains.

David Culver, CNN, Cucuta, Colombia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: And still to come up in the air. Energy and oil stocks rise as Venezuela faces an uncertain future for its crude oil reserves.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:24]

SOARES: Well, energy and oil stocks jumping higher today. This as investors try to assess the prospect of more U.S. companies gaining access to

Venezuela's oil reserves. Several questions remain for both Venezuela's oil industry, as well as the country's political future.

When asked about the hundreds of political prisoners still being detained in Venezuela, President Trump gave this response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you -- are you going to demand that Delcy Rodriguez let opposition figures return or free any political prisoners?

TRUMP: We haven't gotten to that yet. Right now, what we want to do is fix up the oil, fix up the country, bring the country back, and then have

elections. We're not going to spend very much money at all, if anything. But the oil companies are going to go, we're going to take our oil back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's discuss this with my next guest, Francisco Rodriguez. He's a senior research fellow at the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

Francisco, great to have you on the show. We heard that little clip. I'm sure you heard President Trump there was asked about political prisoners.

Clearly, not much detail on that. There are about 800 political prisoners right now in Venezuela. But we didn't hear that. We didn't hear democracy.

The word democracy even mentioned the last time we heard from the president.

I wonder just initial thoughts, Francisco, when you hear the president say the U.S. is going to run Venezuela, what does that mean to you?

FRANCISCO RODRIGUEZ, SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC & POLICY RESEARCH: Well, it's not very clear. I mean, when I first heard him say it,

it really sounded like something taken out of the late 19th or early 20th century when the U.S. effectively took over the administration of Cuba and

the Philippines after the Spanish-American War, or of Haiti and Dominican Republic after it occupied those territories.

But frankly, that is an era of gunboat diplomacy, which we thought was over. And it very much runs counter to what Donald Trump has been

throughout his political career. He's actually rejected the idea of the U.S. getting involved in state building. But then I heard Secretary Rubio

on the following day, and he reinterpreted those words, saying, well, you know, right now we're doing it because we have a quarantine of oil ships

and we have sanctions.

So, he's reframing it as were creating incentives for the Venezuelan government to do what we ask it to do. It's still, you know, in one way or

another, it's really getting directly involved in deciding what ultimately the Venezuelan people should decide. And ultimately, that's the great

contradiction, right?

I mean, we -- you know, countries should have democracy so that they can choose their leaders so that they can decide on their own. Venezuela is

stuck in this situation where it had a dictatorship. You took out the dictator, but you didn't change the system. It continues to be ruled by

exactly the same people. And then how do you then create incentives for that government to do the things that you would want it to do? And that

leads to the question of what is it that you want them to do?

I mean, ideally, we would want Venezuela to move towards a democracy. I don't think that anybody would object that using different types of

pressure to move towards democracy. But Trump is just talking about oil.

SOARES: Yeah. And look, moving towards a democracy, that might be the end point, but we're still not hearing it. And like you clearly said,

Francisco, the people are still in charge. We saw Delcy Rodriguez being sworn in in the last hour or so, and the two people, the two men next to

her, of course, the interior minister, defense minister, they're very much part of the old guard, right? They're very much part and actually even more

slightly -- more questionable so to speak, when it comes to some of the allegations of controlled drug trafficking and so forth.

[15:40:01]

So -- but we did hear very clearly from the U.S. president regarding oil. So, I just think -- just give me your sense of how this will work. So, the

oil companies will go in. How is it going to happen? Because, you know, Venezuela has huge oil deposits, but the actual infrastructure is

completely run to the ground, not just during Maduro, but also during Chavez.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, that's -- it's a much more complex story because Venezuela was producing 2.5 million barrels a day up until 2015. And that was, well

into Maduros time. Now, I think a reasonable case can be made, and I've made it that Venezuela could have been producing a lot more, that if Chavez

had really taken advantage of the economy's oil potential and as well could have been producing five or six million barrels.

So I agree that that Chavismo in this sense was a failure. But Chavismo didn't run the oil sector into the ground. I mean, we have to be realistic

about that. Petro states don't destroy the goose that lays the golden eggs. They keep a functioning oil sector.

And Venezuela had been able to do that until 2015, 2016. It really proved completely unable to do that after the U.S. hit it with very harsh economic

sanctions. First, barring any type of borrowing by the sectors, by the oil sector, not just by PDVSA, but also by the firms, by the joint ventures in

which was affiliated with foreign partners. They couldn't borrow internationally, so they couldn't fund their investment.

And then in 2019, by borrowing PDVSA and these joint ventures from exporting to the U.S., but also trying to block their exports to Europe and

trying to block any, any inputs of machinery, of materials. In my own research, have investigated this in depth and found that sanctions have

significantly contributed to the decline in Venezuelan oil production.

So, I think that once you put in, once you lift sanctions, I mean, you lift the blockade that you have now, you lift sanctions, you allow Venezuela to

restructure its debt. You, you allow it to engage with foreign investors. And yes, there has to be a property rights framework also that works. And I

think that they're negotiating with the U.S. could be quite useful in terms of ensuring that that property rights framework, you will get investment

into the oil industry. And this is an oil industry with tremendous potential.

SOARES: Yeah. That is, hoping that those in charge follow through, right? That is the big challenge on the political stage.

Francisco Rodriguez, thank you very much indeed. Live for us in Denver, in Colorado.

And still to come right here on the show, President Donald Trump says the U.S. needs Greenland for security. A member of Greenland's parliament joins

us with the reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:50]

SOARES: Greenland's prime minister says his country is a democratic society, unlike Venezuela. His comments come a short time ago, as U.S.

President Donald Trump says he's looking at several other countries for security guarantees. President Trump and members of his administration have

given warning to not just Greenland, but also Cuba, Colombia and Iran and Mexico. Mr. Trump specifically points to Greenland as a pivotal region for

the U.S.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Right now, Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place. We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, the prime minister of Denmark is responding to President Donald Trump's talk of needing Greenland for U.S. defense.

In a statement, Mette Frederiksen said, quote, "I have to say it very directly to the United States. It makes absolutely no sense to talk about

the necessity for the USA to take over Greenland." She goes on to say, "The USA has no right to annex one of the three countries in the kingdom of

Denmark." She also called on the U.S. to tone down what she calls threats towards an ally.

Joining me now is Kuno Fencker. He's a member of the Greenland parliament.

Kuno, thank you very much for coming on the show. Just give me your reaction then from what we've been hearing from President Trump. Is this a

threat you think?

KUNO FENCKER, GREENLAND PARLIAMENT MEMBER: No, I don't think it's a threat. And I would say that when Donald Trump is saying that he needs Greenland

for national and international security, it's in a way fully understandable because since 2019, he has called for more investments in the military here

in Greenland, for the surveillance of the waters of Greenland, for the water -- for the submarines and so forth. So right now, maybe Denmark is a

little bit too late in regards to the investments, but it depends on, when it will become necessary, because right out of my window, it's still not

proper winter here. So the shipping routes are opening up here in the northwest passage in the polar area here. And the Greenland area, our

waters here in Greenland will be the utmost important area for shipping routes like the Panama and Suez Channel. So surveillance and also control

of the area will be of utmost importance. And I will also think that we will need the United States to control the area.

SOARES: So let me get this right, Kuno. You are not against the United States taking over Greenland. I mean, do you not see it as a bit of, like,

colonization here?

FENCKER: No. And I have spoken very clearly that our party and me personally, we want Greenland as a sovereign nation. We want our own

citizenship. We want to be Greenlanders and not Danish and -- nor Americans. But we are absolutely willing to work with either both or the

other one in regards to security and defense.

SOARES: Right. But you want sovereignty. But -- so why shouldn't the Greenlanders decide this for themselves rather than getting President Trump

and the United States to come in and annex Greenland.?

FENCKER: And Donald Trump hasn't said anything about annexing Greenland, but --

SOARES: No, I'm not saying -- but I'm saying -- I'm just saying I agree. But shouldn't that -- shouldn't that be a vote for Greenlanders?

FENCKER: Absolutely. And we didn't get that in `53. And when Denmark de facto annexed this area and we didn't get the proper rights to a free

association in 2009. So, I think here in 2026, it's about time that we activate our right to external self-determination and start the negotiation

and further have a plebiscite later on.

SOARES: And Greenland, correct me if I'm wrong, Greenland is a part of NATO, is it not? With Denmark, right? It's part of NATO.

FENCKER: Denmark is a part of NATO.

[15:50:00]

Hence Greenland is de facto a part of NATO.

So, in a -- in a sense, you will say that the U.S. will annex its own defense area. If it does so. So that's also a logic that doesn't make sense

to me.

SOARES: Yes. And then we heard from Frederiksen basically saying talking about any sort of accusing us of applying an acceptable pressure,

describing it as unreasonable attack on the world community. But also what this would mean, of course, for NATO.

If -- give us a sense of how the president's comments regarding Greenland, not just this time, but in previous occasions from administration, how have

those been received in Greenland by Greenlanders?

FENCKER: Some of them are received quite well. If he says that Greenland has the right to external self-determination, or they could join the United

States. It's a big offer from the United States president.

But when he -- when journalists are putting words in his mouth in about annexing and taking over Greenland militarily, that's something different.

So that's not been taken well. But we think that the United States, as the founder of the United Nations and NATO, will adhere to international law as

we do.

SOARES: And if he and if he were to take Greenland by military intervention, like we saw in Venezuela, would you be would you support

that?

FENCKER: Not at all. But you can't compare Greenland with Venezuela. We are a part of the Western Alliance through the Kingdom of Denmark, NATO, and

also the United Nations and, and so forth.

So, the whole system of NATO and the western pact of NATO and the allies will probably break up if something happens like that.

SOARES: Kuno, thank you very much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. Kuno Fencker joining us from -- in Greenland.

FENCKER: Thank you.

SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll see you on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Well, we've been telling you about everything from caution to outright condemnation from governments responding to the U.S. move against

Nicolas Maduro.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

SOARES: They're calling for freedom there.

But for people who have fled Venezuela over the years, this was a weekend of celebration. Venezuelan expats took to the streets of Lima, Peru, to

praise Donald Trump.

[15:55:02]

And in Puerto Rico, Venezuelan exiles talked hopefully about an end to the dictatorship -- dictatorship, pardon me, that has ruled their country for

more than a quarter of a century.

Well, for the people of Venezuela, there's a mix of confusion as well as desperation.

Here's what some of them had to tell us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the situation we're living. There's shortages in hospitals and in pharmacies. There's still a lot missing.

You see, there's no transport. I think the metro was closed. I don't know if they opened it today. We're walking around looking for medicine, for

food. There's anxiety and desperation and we don't know what will happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And I can tell you from people speaking, I've been speaking to inside Venezuela. They are incredibly worried about what the next few weeks

and months will mean for them, because Maduro may have gone. Many women celebrating him. Concerns over this new government in charge.

I'm Isa Soares. Plenty more on this story in the hours ahead. Do stay right here. Have more after this short break.

END

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