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What We Know with Max Foster

Trump To Protesters In Iran: "Help Is On The Way"; Backlash Grows Over Investigation Into Fed's Powell; Clintons Refuse To Testify In Congressional Probe; Trump Focuses On Manufacturing, Affordability On Detroit Trip; Federal Prosecutors In Minnesota Resign After White House Demands. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 13, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:22]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: President Donald Trump advises U.S. citizens to leave Iran.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

President Trump also sending a message to anti-government protesters in Iran as he turns up the heat on the ayatollahs. In an online post today,

the president wrote: Keep protesting. Take your institutions. Help is on the way or on its way.

The president says he's canceled all meetings with Iranian officials until they end their brutal crackdown. He didn't attend a meeting earlier today

held by his national security team to discuss next steps for Iran. And when asked what Americans in Iran should do, he said it wouldn't be a bad idea

for them to get out.

More than 1,800 protesters have been killed in the brutal crackdown by the regime in Tehran. And that's according to a U.S.-based human rights group.

Straight to CNN's Kevin Liptak at the White House.

It was a very brief post, wasn't it, from the president today. But there's so much in it in terms of developments and, crucially, that, you know,

negotiation doesn't seem to be an option right now.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, which is a complete reversal of the position that we heard yesterday from the White House,

which was that they did believe there was a window for diplomacy and that, in fact, that was the number one choice for the president, that that was

his preferred option, rather than sending missiles into Iran.

And the president seems to have absorbed some of what has been happening in Iran, perhaps seen some of the images, gotten briefings on the number of

protesters killed, although he said earlier today that he hasn't been able to get a firm figure on that and decided that any talks would not be

fruitful, essentially saying that they were off.

Now he says that the meetings were canceled. We don't know that any meetings had actually been scheduled up until now, but it does seem as if

the president is now leaning far more into some sort of action to aid the protesters. What exactly that looks like? We aren't sure. When he was asked

what he meant by help is on the way, he said that we would have to figure it out.

We do know that there are a number of options in front of the president. For example, a cyberattack, something that could potentially stymie some of

the security services that are leading the crackdown here. We also understand that the president has been trying to boost the Internet in that

country. We know he spoke to Elon Musk about getting more Starlink apparatuses into allow. The protesters around this blackout of information.

And we also know that these strikes, potential strikes are still on the table. But of course, the president would have to decide what targets to

select. Does he go after nuclear sites, as he did in June? That's still an option for the president. Or does he target some of the facilities

associated with these security services?

These are all the options that the president has been talking about over the last several days. Behind the scenes, you know, he has received a sort

of informal briefings on what the options are that are in front of him. And then we had understood that the president was going to receive perhaps a

more formal briefing on the options today. It's not clear whether that's still happening.

Senior national security officials did meet at the White House. They're expected here later today as well. And so, it all is adding up to a moment

for the president to make a decision.

Of course, he will also have to weigh the risks in all of these. You know, the Iranians have made pretty clear that there will be a reprisal if the

president chooses to order up a strike, potentially on American military facilities in the region. There's also, of course, a risk in doing nothing

if his threats appear empty, it could embolden the regime.

So, I think clearly, officials have been telling us this. Theres a lot for the president to think about in this moment. What does seem clear is that

perhaps any action might still be several days away.

FOSTER: Kevin Liptak at the White House -- thank you so much.

Well, President Trump is in Detroit, Michigan. He's just wrapped up a speech that was meant to focus on the U.S. economy and affordability. He

also did touch on the situation in Iran and other international affairs high on his priority list since the start of the year, including Venezuela,

of course. At the same time, the U.S. president is intensifying his pressure campaign on the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, days after the Justice

Department launched a criminal investigation into the Federal Reserve.

In a social media post earlier, Donald Trump once again called for Jerome Powell to lower interest rates. Meanwhile, CNN is told that the U.S.

treasury secretary appears to be unhappy with the DOJ's investigation. Central bank chiefs around the world have issued a joint statement saying

they, quote, stand in full solidarity with the Federal Reserve system and its chair.

[15:05:00]

Richard Quest is across all of this.

And actually, that solidarity letter was really significant. Have you seen that before, Richard?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: No, not quite in that way.

It was significant, but it was also a bit strange because essentially, what business is it of any of these other central bankers? In a sense, what's

happening within the U.S. judicial system and that -- and their avenue for saying that they're concerned is because of the significance of the United

States economy to the global economy. And drawing this parallel, that what happens in the United States has widespread ramifications for everybody

else.

So, you have them all. You had the Christine Lagarde of the ECB, Bailey of the Bank of England, you had the Reserve Bank of Australia, the Swiss, the

Swedes. On and on it went. All of them basically saying that they are worried that by questioning the integrity of Powell, it weakens the

independence of the central bank, which is the single most important central bank in the world.

FOSTER: Is there a problem with the president calling for interest rates to be cut? I mean, presidents have views, don't they?

QUEST: That's where it gets interesting. No. Is the short answer. The president is perfectly entitled as indeed Karoline Leavitt has said, the

president is perfectly entitled to say, I'd like interest rates to be lower. What he's not supposed to do is then bully, harass, threaten the

person whose job it is to run interest rates. And that's a very fine line.

Now, the most presidents have taken the safe, thick ice route. Interest rates are the business of the central bank. The central bank is

independent.

A strong dollar is in the best interests of the United States. But we're not commenting on that. It's a rubric that people like myself have heard a

gazillion times.

What Trump is doing is browbeating the Fed. And that's very different. Of course, he's entitled to his view. Of course he can say he wishes something

were different, but what he's doing is crossing the line in the views of the critics. And that is browbeating, threatening, harassing and ultimately

weakening the fabric.

FOSTER: If he replaces Powell with someone who does respond to his requests. That's the dangerous area, isn't it? Because he's so

unpredictable and investors won't be able to predict what's going to happen with interest rates, and what impact would that have on the economy?

QUEST: All right. So if he replaces with a rubber stamp or a stooge or a yes man or woman, then that will be very dangerous because although the Fed

chair is one person, bear in mind, Donald Trump's trying to get -- he's already got one guy on. There's a couple of others that are voting to or

leaning towards his way.

If he gets the chair and he gets rid of Lisa Cook -- no, he hasn't yet, then you're starting to look like a fed board. That is basically a rubber

stamp. Then the independence is gone. Interest rates will harden, if not rise. The dollar will weaken.

And the phrase that central bankers and treasury secretaries are using, and its the denigrating phrase, is that the U.S., you know, it'll start to look

like an emerging market. In other words, run for the pleasure of the boss. High inflation, poor standards. It would be very dangerous.

FOSTER: Richard Quest, as ever, thank you so much for joining us.

QUEST: Thank you, sir.

FOSTER: Now, Bill Clinton could face contempt proceedings, would you believe, for failing to appear before a U.S. House Oversight Committee. The

former president and first lady, Hillary Clinton, have refused to testify in the House investigation involving convicted sex offender Jeffrey

Epstein. Their lawyers say they've already provided all the information they have about Epstein and his partner, Ghislaine Maxwell.

Committee Chair James Comer says the Clintons could now face charges for not showing up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): As a result of Bill Clinton not showing up for his lawful subpoena, which again was voted on unanimously by the committee

in a bipartisan manner, we will move next week in the House Oversight Committee markup to hold former President Clinton in contempt of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Let's bring in Stephen Collinson.

I mean, there's different ways into this story, isn't there? The idea that the Clintons see themselves as just above the law, they don't have to turn

up to a subpoena, a legal subpoena. But there's also this letter they wrote, which has some quite compelling points in it as well for their --

for their side of the political debate.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. The Clintons legal point is that the committee, the subpoena is invalid because it has no

legislative purpose. The committee is arguing that it's considering new legislation against sex trafficking and needs to speak to people that came

into contact with Jeffrey Epstein.

[15:10:08]

The Clintons say their experience. And let's remember, President Bill Clinton has not been accused of any wrongdoing in this matter. Their

experience is not relevant to any of that. And ultimately, they may choose to challenge the subpoena in court.

What was also interesting, as you say about that letter, is they were also branding this almost as their part in the resistance against what Democrats

see as the lawfare, the unethical use of the Justice Department and congress to pursue Donald Trump's enemies. So they're almost trying to

build a political head of steam behind their refusal to show up to testify, which, of course, could be somewhat personally embarrassing and politically

embarrassing for the former president.

FOSTER: Can he be forced to appear? I guess this was an attempt to force him to appear, but this follow up legal action, where does that put him?

COLLINSON: Well, this is where it gets very interesting, because if the Congress voted to hold, President Clinton and Hillary Clinton in contempt,

they could then send a criminal referral to the Justice Department.

And Donald Trump's attorney general, Pam Bondi, would have to decide whether there were grounds to prosecute them. Of course, given what we know

about Trump's willingness to use the Justice Department to go after his political enemies, this makes this very interesting indeed. And there is

the case of several Trump officials during the first term, including Peter Navarro, the trade adviser, who actually went to prison because they didn't

answer subpoenas from Congress to testify about various matters about the first Trump term.

So, there is some precedent here. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. I think were going to see a lot of legislation lot of litigation in this

matter from the Clintons to try and slow this down, to fight back against the committee. They're also arguing, of course, that the committee is not

probing President Donald Trump over his past relationship with Epstein. So, this is a purely political exercise.

But I think this is going to be very intriguing. And just the experience that we have of the way Donald Trump is using the Justice Department makes

this quite a high risk strategy for the Clintons.

FOSTER: Okay, Stephen, thank you so much. It's going to be fascinating to see that unfold.

We're going to go to Detroit now, though, where U.S. president Donald Trump has just wrapped up a wide-ranging speech. It addressed affordability,

tariffs, the situation in Iran, amongst other things.

Kristen's there monitoring it for us.

What stood out to you, Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, max, this is an opportunity for President Trump to actually focus on

affordability and the economy. Republicans across the country are really hoping he is going to use these opportunities when he's traveling the

country to talk about what the administration has implemented. That is, eventually, if Americans are not feeling it now, going to impact Americans

in a positive way, these Republicans, as we head into these midterms, believe that President Trump is the best messenger.

But as you noted, this was a wide-ranging speech. Yes. He touched on some of the policies, particularly were here in Michigan. He talked about

rolling back some of those Biden era regulations on electric vehicles to boost auto factory work here for that industry. Of course, we're in

Michigan.

But that was, among other things, he talked about his tariffs. He talked about fraud in Minnesota at one point. He went on a long tangent about

Democratic lawmakers. He spent the first several minutes actually complaining that many of these elections over the last several years have

been rigged by Democrats.

And then, as you noted, he did get into some of the foreign policy. He touted, again, the military operation in Venezuela and essentially read the

Truth Social post on Iran that he had posted earlier in the morning.

And I do want to point to one line that he said out loud was this idea that help is on the way. That was his direct message to Iranian protesters, and

he had been asked about that message before he said it, because, again, it was in his social post and he said, you're going to have to figure out what

that means.

So, still a lot of questions when it comes to that. We do know that his national security team met this morning for a briefing. He was not part of

that. There is going to be another meeting later this afternoon. Briefings throughout the day as they try to decide what they're going to do when it

comes to Iran.

FOSTER: Okay, Kristen, thank you so much. So many questions about Iran. We wait to see any updates we get from the president.

Still to come, multiple prosecutors in Minnesota have resigned. We'll take a look at why they stepped down. And if more resignations actually are on

the way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:04]

FOSTER: At least three federal prosecutors in Minnesota have resigned amid demands from the Trump administration. Sources tell CNN the resignations

come after pressure from the White House to focus on those protesting and impeding ICE officers.

Last week, a U.S. citizen was shot and killed after a confrontation with an ICE officer in Minnesota.

Whitney Wild joins us now from Chicago.

It really does show how frustrated a lot of the local authorities are getting there with the federal response. But they're walking away from the

problem I guess now. What happens to the prosecutors that come in to replace those that are going?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's an excellent question, Max. You know, normally what would happen in a situation like

this is other prosecutors from that U.S. attorney's office would take over those cases, but it's really hard to see this as anything other than

resignation in protest.

A source is telling CNN's Evan Perez that this comes after the Trump administration had pressured these prosecutors to focus their investigation

of this shooting on the actions of the woman who was killed, a woman named Renee Nicole Good, and the actions of the people around her. And it --

based on Evan's conversations, it sounds like there's real frustration with that.

And typically, what happens here is that there's an investigation of the totality of the incident, which would include investigating the actions of

the officer. And according to Evan's source, it appears that the shift here was that they wanted to focus not on that officer, but instead on the woman

who was killed.

Max, this is a really curious moment, especially when you consider who is resigning. The top prosecutor here is the first U.S. attorney, assistant

Joe Thompson. He had been the acting U.S. attorney earlier in the summer. He had acknowledged that he had planned to carry out the administration's

priorities.

And in fact, in December had announced a sprawling fraud investigation, one that he thought could reach into $9 billion of fraud of Minnesota's social

safety net programs.

And so, on its face, it looked like he was providing the administration with what they wanted, which was proof of fraud in Minnesota. A case like

that, and many others was a real justification for this major immigration crackdown that, as we know, resulted in the death of Renee Nicole Good. And

so, it's curious that the man who had first given them, you know, like I said, given them what they wanted, had quickly drawn their ire when he

refused to prosecute them or at least investigate the case in a way that they wanted.

Moving forward, Max, the big questions that we have are what is going to be the impact for these cases? There are a list of cases that the U.S.

attorney's office is still aggressively pursuing. One of them includes the shooting death of a state lawmaker there, her husband, as well as the

shooting of another lawmaker there and his wife.

That case is -- has been going on for about six or seven months now. And so that is really, you know, still a very important case for them. It is

continuing that that case shows no signs of slowing down. And so now the question is who is going to take over that case.

The top prosecutors here include someone who had been the head of the criminal investigation and also one of the lead attorneys for that case.

The defendant there is Luther Vance Belcher. Moving forward, there's also a question about, you know, who is going to handle this case at the state of

Minnesota had filed against the Trump administration in Minnesota.

And I'll leave you with this, Max, for locals, you know, local and state officials, this is a huge blow. These relationships between local law

enforcement, state law enforcement and the Feds are incredibly important. They have been absolutely instrumental in ensuring that there's justice for

cases like the shooting death of that lawmaker and her husband.

Governor Tim Walz has weighed in saying that this is just a huge loss for the state of Minnesota, Max.

FOSTER: Yeah. Whitney, thank you so much. A huge story.

Still to come, one world leader says the brutal regime in Tehran appears to be nearing its end. If that were to materialize, who would decide Iran's

future?

We'll examine that with an expert in the region.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:28]

FOSTER: U.S. president Donald Trump says all meetings with Iranian officials are canceled until the Tehran regime ends its violent crackdown

on protesters. In an online message to those demonstrators today, Mr. Trump said help is on the way.

National security teams met earlier to discuss U.S. options concerning Iran. The president didn't attend that meeting, though.

Meanwhile, the death toll surging in Iran, where more than 1800 protesters have been killed. That's according to a U.S. based human rights group. CNN

hasn't been able to independently verify those figures, though. Germany's chancellor says the Iranian government appears to be finished.

Friedrich Merz told reporters today. I assume that we're now seeing the last days and weeks of this regime, when a regime can only stay in power

through violence, then it has de facto reached the end.

So, what we want to know is who will decide Iran's future.

Joining me now for us, Firas Maksad, he's the managing director for the Middle East and north Africa practice at Eurasia Group.

Thank you so much for joining us. You know, the demonstrators appear to have done as much as they can. Can they go any further with what they want

to turn into a revolution without some sort of foreign assistance?

FIRAS MAKSAD, MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA MANAGING DIRECTOR, EURASIA GROUP: Well, yes and no, Max. I mean, you started the conversation by asking who

will determine Iran's future? No doubt. No doubt. It's going to be these protesters on the streets of Tehran that ultimately bring down that regime.

However, doing that on their own is simply not going to be enough. We know that in terms of popular uprisings and revolutions, there's usually a

confluence of factors that have to come together to allow that kind of change to take place.

What's happening in the region, the balance of power, the way that the Iranian regime and its axis have been degraded over the past two years on

the back end of the October 7th attacks, first, Hezbollah in Lebanon, kind of like their ace, their ace in the game, has been destroyed and

demolished. The loss of the Assad regime, their primary foreign ally in the region, and then more recently, Maduro in Venezuela, again a key ally of

the Iranian regime, all mean that Iran, its regime are weaker than they've -- they've ever been. And the people on the streets are very much sensing

that looking to take advantage of it.

FOSTER: Donald Trump says we'll have to wait and see what his plan is. He's cut off negotiations, which is crucial, isn't it? That suggests he's

going to do something aggressive. But there are so many different options on the table, from cyberattacks to attacking the nuclear facilities to

perhaps taking out, you know, military sites or even government sites.

I mean, which of those options would help the demonstrators most?

MAKSAD: How about all of the above? I think these are all currently under consideration. The national security team will convene again in the White

House, I think, at the top of the hour. The president is due to make a decision. All these items and options have been placed on the table.

I suspect that there is, at this point, no way around kinetic action. The president will have to reinforce his red line. It's very clear in

Washington that the president doesn't want to draw the analogy with Obama. When he drew his red line on the use of chemical weapons in Syria and did

not end up backing it up.

"Trump is not Obama" is the message. So there will be military action in the coming days. I suspect that that's the crackdown continues. There will

also be economic sanctions and perhaps non-conventional cyber aspects of this, too.

FOSTER: But the economic sanctions are obviously going to help the protesters who are protesting about what started all of this and why it's

so uniting, it seems, is they're complaining about prices and just struggling to make ends meet.

Any sort of economic sanctions, even these tariffs would harm the protesters, wouldn't it? Probably more than the regime.

MAKSAD: I disagree with that analysis. And in fact, I think that the chancellor of Germany, Merz, talking about the end of days for the regime,

I think he's probably off when he's talking in terms of days and weeks. This is a regime that is well-entrenched. But if you look at what's

happening in Iran, the various cycles of violence in 2019, 2022, and now, it's very clear that the regime in Iran does not have answers to its

chronic economic problems.

And when a regime resorts, as it currently is, to printing money in direct cash infusions to families and people, that is only going to feed into

hyperinflation.

[15:30:07]

So I do think that the regime is economically very vulnerable and that those sanctions will have an impact long term.

FOSTER: Some people talking about targeted assassinations, if you like, if you look at what happened to Maduro focusing on him and taking him out of

the country, that's very difficult to do in Iran, isn't it, because this conservative movement, much of it much more conservative than the

ayatollah, even, is so entrenched. You can't really take it out in the same way.

MAKSAD: Iran is not Venezuela. What you're able to accomplish with Maduro is unlikely to repeat itself with Khamenei, the supreme leader in Iran.

But that said, part of the reason why the people are currently in the streets is they realize that Iran is a house without a roof. It was very

apparent during the 12-day War between Israel and Iran last June that the Israelis, but also American intelligence, have thoroughly penetrated the

regime and its agencies.

So it's not unthinkable for that kind of penetration to yield in the assassination yield, assassinations, high profile assassinations in the

days to come, or even eventually down the road, something similar to what transpired in Venezuela. But simply put, it's very easy -- it's very

difficult to predict that kind of scenario right now.

FOSTER: Firas Maksad, I'd really appreciate such a complex country to understand in this context. Thank you.

Now, it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks lower. The Dow is off almost 1 percent. After we had some important inflation data.

This is our business breakout.

So, inflation remains higher than normal in the United States with new numbers showing consumer prices rose 2.7 percent in December. Last month's

data showed that food and energy prices are rising sharply, but one economist says there are signs that inflation is starting to moderate.

Jamie Dimon says it's probably not a great idea to target the Federal Reserve's independence, with the Fed Chair, Jerome Powell, facing an

investigation from Donald Trump's Department of Justice.

The JPMorgan CEO says the move could raise both inflation and interest rates.

Microsoft has been taking flak for hoovering up electricity for its new data centers. Now it says it will volunteer to pay higher energy bills in

places where its building new plants. Areas near data centers have been -- have seen their electricity costs more than triple, according to one study.

Microsoft says it will pay to invest in local schools, libraries, infrastructure, all to help compensate.

The price of gold surpassed $4,600 per ounce for the first time this week. And as prices rose, so did the number of treasure seekers.

Polo Sandoval has more on a mini gold rush for prospectors in Australia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The lure of gold is drawing treasure hunters to Australia's Victoria state, an area known as the Golden

Triangle, where, historically, some of the world's biggest gold nuggets have been discovered. But there was no eureka moment for this gold seeker.

KELLY SMITH, GOLD HUNTER: Ah, there it is. Shotgun pellet.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): But it's not quite striking out, according to some hobbyist/prospectors, if the quest is part of the reward.

SMITH: I like to walk through the bush, seeing the wildlife, and if I'm lucky, finding a little bit of gold.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): It may not be the gold rush of the mid-19th century, where hundreds of thousands of people flock to California trying

to find their fortunes. But demand for recreational mining permits in Victoria is hitting an all-time high. There are more than 100,000 active

permits, which allow people to search for gold using only hand tools and keep anything they find.

It's a chance to potentially hit pay dirt after the price of gold search last year to over $4,500 a troy ounce.

DAMIAN DUKE, GOLD HUNTER: Seeing what nuggets, they're finding out there and what they're actually getting for them is definitely a big boost,

because that can help us pay off a lot of bills, take kids out and stuff like that. So, it's a big kicker for me.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Tony Mills, a gold hunting tour guide, says he's one of the lucky ones and has found some pretty sizable stones.

TONY MILLS, GOLD HUNTING TOUR GUIDE: The best one was the 80-ounce nugget. Yeah, and I found a 70, and I found a lot of 20 ones, and yeah, I found

alot of decent nuggets, not recently, other than this, 3-1/2 ounce two months ago.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): And though most of the people dream of hitting the mother lode, others are happy to just find a little something in the dirt.

A guide estimated this pebble of gold to be worth about $27. A jackpot for those that prize the experience,

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel very good, very happy. My heart is singing a nice tune.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:35:00]

FOSTER: Brilliant.

Still to come, "We will not be part of the U.S." Those words coming from Greenland's prime minister. But do his fellow Greenlanders agree with him?

CNN is on the ground in Nuuk to speak to people affected after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Greenland's prime minister is asserting that being part of Denmark is better than being governed by the U.S. His remarks come as Danish and

Greenlandic officials are heading to the White House, where they'll be discussing developments with Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of

State Marco Rubio.

Now, the prime minister said earlier today that Greenland now faces a geopolitical crisis, but made clear it was the choice of the people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, GREENLANDIC PRIME MINISTER: Greenland does not want to be owned by the USA. Greenland does not want to be governed by the USA.

Greenland will not be a part of the USA. We choose the Greenland we know today, which is part of the kingdom of Denmark.

Now we are faced with a geopolitical crisis and if we have to choose between the USA and Denmark here and now, we choose Denmark, we choose

NATO, we choose the kingdom of Denmark and we choose the E.U.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN's Nic Robertson has more now from Nuuk in Greenland.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): It's 11:00 a.m. daybreak off the coast of Greenland. The strategic Danish island

President Trump wants for American security. A hundred fifty miles from the Arctic Circle, it is a winter wonderland of stark, snowy beauty.

ROBERTSON: Out here in these remote fields, it seems impossible to imagine that this tranquil arctic wilderness could really be at the heart of a

geopolitical crisis that has the United States pitted against its NATO allies, potentially threatening to upend decades of global security.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Aron Josvassen, an Inuit, a native Greenlander, is taking a seal hunting -- food from the land and sea is a core Inuit

connection with nature, a cultural totem.

ROBERTSON: So I know we're waiting for the sea and looking out for the seal, but Donald Trump says there's Russian and Chinese ships here. Where

are they?

ARON JOSVASSEN, CAPTAIN: There's no from China or Russia.

ROBERTSON: Donald Trump says that it's not enough just to be friends with Greenland and have a treaty, but he has to own it. What do you say?

JOSVASSEN: I'm afraid the nature will destroyed, and many animals will disappear.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Greenland is massive. More than 1,600 miles from Arctic tip to Atlantic tail. So wide it straddles several time zones. It is

also geographically strategic, sits right between the U.S. and Russia, adjacent to newly thawing polar shipping lanes. But despite its size,

barely 57,000 people live on the ice shrouded island. Most of them, like Aron, Inuit.

SARA OLSVIG, CHAIR, INUIT CIRCUMPOLAR COUNCIL: We are a people of the Arctic. We have specialized skills in surviving and thriving in the Arctic.

Inuit have been here in Greenland for 4,500 years at least, maybe longer.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sara Olsvig is also Inuit, a former Greenland politician in the Danish parliament stands up for Inuit rights.

ROBERTSON: But President Trump now says that he has to own Greenland. That's the only way, psychologically, that he thinks that the deal will be

right.

OLSVIG: If the case is so that he really thinks that Greenland is so important for the U.S., well, then there's something to talk about and lets

solve it through dialogue.

ROBERTSON: Is there a dignified dialogue right now?

OLSVIG: I think we are far from what would be called, we would call a dignified dialogue. I think that's obvious.

ROBERTSON: How --

OLSVIG: Silence has a significance in our culture.

ROBERTSON: So how do you deal with somebody loud like Donald Trump and be heard?

OLSVIG: Hopefully, they will continue to be a path in a respectful manner for creating stronger bonds of partnerships. But that doesn't mean you know

that coercion or taking over or annexing.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inuit are traditionally quiet. But what they say now will be the single biggest factor facing a Trump takeover near Chemnitz

is a successful businesswoman has been silent until now.

ROBERTSON: Does Donald Trump understand Greenland?

MIA CHEMNITZ, FASHION DESIGNER: I'm afraid that he understands everything and that he doesn't care.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): She specializes in Inuit clothing. Her store is doing well with locals and tourists, but she's got orders to fill, so she's

taking us to her workshop.

CHEMNITZ: Donald Trump and his government. They know about all the agreements between Denmark and Greenland and the U.S. They know everything.

They are very welcome to invest in Greenland. We're always looking for investments. We want to develop. I don't think it's about that.

ROBERTSON: What's it about?

CHEMNITZ: I think it's about land.

ROBERTSON: Donald Trump wants a big country.

CHEMNITZ: I'm afraid so, yeah

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inside her tiny workshop, she is busy, ready to hire more staff, items like seal mitts, jackets and trousers. Making a

comeback. Exports possible because the animals are hunted for food as well as the hides.

But Trump's Greenland grab is crimping her business, putting her own expansion plans on hold.

CHEMNITZ: Well, if you don't know which country you're living in in a month, then you know --

ROBERTSON: It's that real for you right now.

CHEMNITZ: No, I don't want it to be real. I really try to push that thought down. But that is the worst case scenario that, you know, in a

month, I'm American. We don't even have military in Greenland because we don't do war. So, of course, you know, there would be -- I don't know, you

know, we wouldn't be able to resist the American military. No one can resist the American military.

ROBERTSON: Trump isn't the first president to try to get Greenland. The U.S. tried shortly after buying Alaska from Russia more than 150 years ago.

Tried again in 1910. And then after World War II, U.S. President Harry Truman secretly offered Denmark $100 million in gold.

This time, Donald Trump seems determined to have it his way.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to do something on Greenland, whether they like it or not, because if we don't do it,

Russia or China will take over Greenland.

[15:45:00]

And we're not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Trump also says he wants Greenland's rare earths and minerals. Deposits are scattered along Greenland's rugged, remote

coastline.

Under the 1951 Greenland defense agreement between the U.S. and Denmark, Trump already has missile bases and sweeping rights to military activity,

as well as access to any amount of rare earths and minerals. The U.S. desires.

JORGEN HAMMEKEN-HOLM, GREENLANDIC DEPUTY MINING MINISTER: We have welcoming United States for many years. It doesn't seem that that the

commercial way to do things have been of interest for them.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Jorgen Hammeken-Holm is Greenland's deputy minister for mining resources, has agreed to talk, but such is the

sensitivity around Trump's possible land grab, he is limited about what he can tell me.

ROBERTSON: What happens if the United States does take control of Greenland? What happens to the minerals and resources then?

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: I have no idea.

ROBERTSON: From a sort of a personal perspective, how big a deal for Greenland is, what's happening right now.

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: Big, very big.

ROBERTSON: Have you ever seen anything this big?

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: No.

ROBERTSON: Does it scare you?

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: Absolutely.

ROBERTSON: Why?

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: The unknown situation on what is going on.

ROBERTSON: What does your gut tell you is going to happen?

HAMMEKEN-HOLM: I have no idea, but I have hopes and expect the worst.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): He is not alone. Greenlanders across the country are struggling with Trump's dogma just as much as the deputy minister

trying to wrangle American attitudes against Inuit logic

ROBERTSON: But he says he's going to do it the easy way or the hard way. What is the hard way mean?

JOSVASSEN: I think he wants to use the military I think.

ROBERTSON: And what will you do then?

JOSVASSEN: Like, I cannot do something, I cannot do something. Just -- I just say, "I give up."

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Greenland's options, it seems in the balance, diplomacy, the preference, all else as potentially unforgiving as its

Arctic surrounds.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Nuuk Fjord, Greenland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, it costs more than $10 million, fits into a backpack, and investigators say could be used as a sonic weapon. The

Pentagon is testing a mysterious new device.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:15]

FOSTER: Well, has the pentagon got its hands on a mysterious sonic weapon? That's the question investigators are now asking, according to sources. The

pentagon is alleged to have spent more than a year testing a device it acquired during an undercover operation. It fits into a backpack, and it

uses radio waves that may be linked to what's being called Havana syndrome, where U.S. spies and diplomats over the years have reported strange

illnesses like headaches and vertigo. Various investigations have been held but haven't been able to verify claims that were caused by some kind of

energy attack from a foreign government.

What we don't know is, then, could this secret device be used as a sonic weapon?

Joining us now is Nicky Woolf, host of "The Sound," the podcast on the Havana Syndrome mystery.

Thanks for joining us. I mean, what have you heard about this thing they've got?

NICKY WOOLF, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: So, there's a lot that we don't know about what exactly it is that they have obtained. One of the things that is

notably absent in what they've said is exactly how this device that they've got works, looking into Havana syndrome. There are lots of different

proposals of how it would work.

When you say directed energy, there's radio waves, there's sonic waves, there's microwaves.

What has not been told is which of those mechanics, this device that they have uses. So there's a lot of questions still to be answered about what

they've discovered.

FOSTER: So, they've acquired it. So they've acquired a device from another nation. Which would that be? What's the most likely one?

WOOLF: Well, let's be clear. This is Russia. We're talking about Russia.

FOSTER: Yeah.

WOOLF: Even in Havana, the -- this was a question of how is Russia doing this to American diplomats? There was no question about that during the

time in which this was becoming a news story.

And one of the questions that I've looked into is who else has the potential capability of doing this? There's certainly Russia. It was very

strongly intimated that China has this capability, but it's also been very strongly intimated and I've got a couple of sources on this that America

already had the capability to produce this kind of device, but it's unclear whether this is proof that this kind of device exists or if this is proof

that someone else has been busted using it.

FOSTER: But they've spent a year testing it. Does that imply to you that they can't figure out how it works, or that they just want to fully

understand it.

WOOLF: So, none of the -- none of the proposed mechanisms for this device working are particularly difficult. The -- if it's a microwave energy

device, it's fundamentally the same basic science that your household microwave uses. The question that I suspect they are looking into is where

were the parts made? Where were they deployed? How were they transported?

But I don't think any of the science involved is remotely in question. I think there's a lot of spycraft involved in what they're trying to find

out.

FOSTER: And there's very little data and information because its spycraft, obviously. But, you know, you've done more research on this than anyone.

Are you convinced that Havana syndrome actually exists?

WOOLF: So when we were talking to people during the research for this show, a lot of people are very convinced that there was a psychosomatic,

that people were convincing themselves that something was happening. And then there's a lot of people who are convinced that what they were

experiencing was real. What we didn't see a lot of was the idea that both of those things can be true, that they can have been a device deployed at

the core of -- in Havana, in what was going on. And then once it went global, of course, there is a certain amount of psychosomatic transfer.

Some people will be experiencing something. Well, some people will be experiencing the power of suggestion.

But after a year of researching this, I was pretty convinced that something at the very core of it was being deployed. And we -- we attempted to prove

this by building one.

[15:55:00]

We had a physicist friend of mine cannibalize a whole bunch of microwaves, and microwave energy was the most likely structure that we found out. The -

- what the U.S. government has said today was quite vague about what kind of directed energy was involved, but we certainly managed to long distance

direct microwave energy just from something that a mate of mine built in a garage. So certainly, the science of this is not remotely impossible.

FOSTER: Okay. Nicky Woolf, thank you so much.

We've got very little to go on because of the nature of that business, but appreciate your insights on it.

I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW.

Stay with CNN. We'll have much more after the break.

END

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