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What We Know with Max Foster
Border Czar Homan Working On Minneapolis Drawdown Plan; Minneapolis Mayor Says His City Will Not Back Down; Trump: Putin Agreed To Halt Strikes On Many Cities For A Week; Jeffries: Democrats Open To Short-Term Funding For DHS; CNN Reports From Inside Tehran As Tensions With U.S. Soar; Starmer, Xi Meet In Bid To Reset Strained Relationship; A.I. And The Future Of Warfare. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired January 29, 2026 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:31]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: The Minneapolis mayor calls on cities to stand up to the Trump administration.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
U.S. President Donald Trump's border czar says his goal is to draw down the federal presence in Minneapolis. Mr. Trump put Tom Homan in charge of the
Minnesota operation just days ago, hoping it would ease some of the anger and tensions. And though Homan said he wants to do just that, he warned
that federal agents must be allowed to do their job without being interfered with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: When the violence decreases, we can draw down those resources. But based on the discussions I've had with the governor
and the A.G. we can start drawing down those resources as far as those looking for public safety threats being released and do it in a jail with
much, much less people. So, the drawdown is going to happen based on these agreements. But the drawdown can happen even more if the hateful rhetoric
in the impeachment interference will stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: And while the border czar is in -Minneapolis, the mayor of Minneapolis is in Washington. Jacob Frey addressed the U.S. Conference of
Mayors just minutes ago, telling them it's up to cities to stand up to the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS, MN: We are on the front lines of a very important battle, and it's important that we aren't silenced, that we
aren't put down. This is not a time to bend our heads in despair or out of fear that we may be next because if we do not speak up, if we do not step
out, it will be your city that is next.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, for more on all of this, let's bring in CNN's chief law enforcement analyst, you know, it was also interesting to hear the
reaction from mayors across America. There was a big applause at one point, wasn't there? They seemed to sort of agree with him.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I mean, there are mayors who are from Chicago to Washington, D.C. to Los
Angeles who have been beset by these large federal enforcement efforts that have really turned their communities upside down. But not only that, tended
to break relations of trust, that they had worked long and hard to develop between their police agencies and communities that had been estranged.
So, I think the reaction to Mayor Frey from a lot of mayors was you stood up to -- you stood up to the federal government, you stood up to the
president. And remarkably, it seems you got them to bend a little bit.
FOSTER: Yeah, so we hear the border czar talking about drawing down federal agents, but he specifically didn't give any numbers because
obviously protesters want them all to go. He also notably said that protesters have a right to protest as long as it's peaceful, which is an
acknowledgment. We haven't heard from some of his colleagues.
MILLER: Well, that's right. And, Max, one of the most startling things about this, especially, you know, in a nation that embraces protest as much
as the United States does, is the casual way with which federal authorities, whether it was the secretary of homeland security, the
attorney general referred to protesters as rioters and domestic terrorists.
I was in the counterterrorism business and protesting is not terrorism. And I've been in a few riots and protests that we've seen have not amounted to
what a riot is. So, I think the idea of tamping down some of the highly charged rhetoric and name-calling would be a start. And I think Homan has
tried to bring a sense of calm without -- without walking away from the mission.
FOSTER: Yeah, it's been really interesting day.
Chief law enforcement analyst John Miller, thank you as ever for joining us.
MILLER: Thanks, Max.
FOSTER: President Trump says Russia has agreed to halt strikes on many Ukrainian cities for a week meanwhile. Mr. Trump says he reached out to his
Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, citing cold temperatures in the region.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I personally asked President Putin not to fire into Kyiv in the various towns for a week, and he agreed
to do that. And I have to tell you, it was very nice. A lot of people said, don't waste the call. You're not going to get that. And he did it. And
we're very happy that they did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:05:02]
FOSTER: While plans are set for a future meeting on peace talks, the violence on the ground in Ukraine shows no signs of slowing down, though.
Ukraine says at least five people have been killed following a Russian drone strike on a civilian train. This happened on Tuesday in the Kharkiv
region. Nearly 300 people on board that train, which is used to visit soldiers on the front lines.
Ukraine President Zelensky calls the attack an act of terrorism.
Kevin Liptak joins us now.
We are just taking Donald Trump's word for it at this point that there's going to be this weeklong break. I guess we'll see if Putin really follows
through.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, the proof will be in the pudding in a lot of ways. And, you know, in the past the Russians have
discounted this idea of temporary pauses in the fighting. You know, the Ukrainians have raised this repeatedly, you know, a 30 day pause, a 60 day
pause, some effort to get the sides to the negotiating table when they aren't being flooded with drones and missiles. And the Russians have
essentially said no to all of that.
According to President Trump, this time is different, but we don't know when the president spoke to Putin, we don't know what the conditions that
he set were. I do understand from a person familiar with the matter that this idea was discussed during those trilateral talks that took place in
Abu Dhabi at the end of last week. The U.S., the Ukrainians and the Russians all sitting down to work on this peace plan that the president was
proposed, the Americans, as part of their mediating effort in those talks, did raise this idea of an energy ceasefire, essentially pausing all attacks
on energy infrastructure amid this cold snap in Ukraine. At the time, it didn't seem to people in the room that the Russians were going to agree to
it immediately. But I guess President Trump, in his view, seems to have broken through to Vladimir Putin.
But again, we'll see what happens. You know, tonight, tomorrow night, as the this cold snap continues, what you've seen the Russians doing is
essentially trying to freeze the Ukrainians into submission, you know, throw them into darkness, throw them in to coldness as this war proceeds.
Now, we have heard from the president and we heard from Steve Witkoff, his foreign envoy today, that they are making progress on these peace talks.
They say they have come to agreements on the security guarantee. Part of it, they've come to agreement on the financial part of it. You know,
Ukraine will need billions of dollars to rebuild once this war is over.
But clearly what they haven't agreed to yet is this idea of land concessions. That remains the big sticking point. That was the sticking
point heading in to those trilateral talks last weekend. There's no indication that Russia has backed off all of its maximalist demands on that
front. And so, for now, it seems as if the war will continue on.
FOSTER: Okay, Kevin, thank you so much, from a snowy White House.
Elsewhere in Washington, we could be on the brink of a government shutdown. Democrats on Capitol Hill demanding that funding for the Department of
Homeland Security be separated from a larger spending bill. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries suggests his party would be open to
backing a shorter-term funding measure, but warns it cannot be long. He says taxpayer dollars shouldn't be used to, in his words, brutalize
American citizens or kill them or violently target law abiding immigrant families.
Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.
How much support does he have for this one man?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are still serious negotiations that are happening behind the scenes between the White
House and Senate Democratic leaders to avert what would be a very damaging government shutdown will affect almost three quarters of the federal
government, major federal agencies like the Defense Department, State Department, health and human services, the Labor Department and also
central to this fight is the Homeland Security Department. That is what funds ICE and immigration enforcement has been a huge fight in the
aftermath of what we've seen in Minneapolis to American citizens killed by immigration agents and now Democrats demanding changes to the practice and
saying that they will not consent on a bill to move ahead that funds ICE. And the problem is that that homeland security bill is tied to this larger
funding package.
Now, the White House is moving in the Democrats direction has agreed conceptually to pull apart the homeland security funding piece of this
bill, negotiate on ICE, and then pass the rest of those proposals for the rest of the federal agencies through September. That is a big movement in
the Democratic direction. They are still squabbling over how long to temporarily extend funding for the Homeland Security Department, time that
would give them enough time to negotiate a compromise over ICE.
But the fact that the White House has moved in the Democrats direction is a significant change.
[15:10:02]
It's a question that I put to Democratic and Republican leaders, including Senate Majority Leader John Thune, about why the White House and Republican
leaders have changed their approach at this late hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: But is it a recognition that something needs to change?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I mean, I think that, you know, that obviously funding the governments priority number one right now,
and the Dems have dug in on this. So, I think the White House, to their credit, is sitting down and having conversations with them about how we can
come up with a path forward.
RAJU: What has changed here?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Videotapes of the streets of Minneapolis. People have seen it. They're outraged by it. They want us to do something
decisive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And the timing is critical here because 11:59 p.m. tomorrow night is the deadline Eastern Time. That's the deadline where they need to pass a
bill to fund the rest of the federal government. And assuming they make these changes, which would be to separate out that homeland security piece
and pass the rest of the proposals, it would still need to be approved by the United States House after being approved by the United States Senate,
and the House has been out of session all week long, and it almost certainly would not be able to come back to town until Monday, which means
that even if there is a deal, a short term shutdown is possible for a couple of days.
But nevertheless, there's much -- the mood is much better than it was just a couple of days ago, where it seemed like a prolonged shutdown was almost
certain to happen. All because the White House is moving in the Democratic direction. Amid all the outcry after those killings in Minnesota -- Max.
FOSTER: Yeah, a way to go but interesting.
Manu, appreciate it. Thank you.
Election officials in the U.S. state of Georgia are telling President Donald Trump to get out of Fulton County, this after an FBI operation on
Wednesday where agencies 2020 election ballots. The president continues to falsely claim voter fraud in Georgia led to his loss in the presidential
race to Joe Biden. Mr. Trump was indicted in Fulton County on allegations he was part of a conspiracy to overturn the election results. The case was
dismissed. County election officials now say Wednesday's FBI operation could be part of a broader election interference plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MO IVORY, FULTON COUNTY COMMISSIONER: This is not just about Fulton County. Fulton County is right now the target, the only county right now
fighting over an election that already happened. But it is coming to a place near you. This is the beginning of the chaos of 2026 that is about to
ensue. So, if we are starting this early in January, you can only imagine what is going to happen in October.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Elsewhere, the European Union shifting policy on Iran after its deadly crackdown on protesters, saying repression can't go unanswered.
Today, the E.U. designated Iran's Revolutionary Guards a terrorist organization. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen praised
the move as long overdue, saying the label fits a regime that, quote, crushes its own peoples protests in blood. Iran is already facing pressure
from U.S. President Donald Trump, who says a massive armada is heading for the country as he considers military action. The E.U. foreign policy chief
says the region doesn't need a new war, but Iran must face increased pressure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAJA KALLAAS, EU FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF: In Iran, horrific crackdown on protesters has come at a heavy human cost. The E.U. already has sweeping
sanctions in place and today, ministers agreed to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization. This will put them on the
same footing with Daesh, Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda. Those who operate through terror must be treated as terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Iran accusing Europe of fanning the flames of regional tensions, warning its increasing the risk of a full-scale war.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen is reporting from inside Tehran this week, operating only with the permission of the government. He visited the site where the
protests began, eventually spreading nationwide. Fred spoke with some Iranians about their grievances and the government's crackdown on
protesters that has killed thousands of people and arrested many thousands more to protect identities.
We blurred faces in Fred's report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're in the area around Tehran's Grand Bazaar. This is where the protests started
several weeks ago that then, of course, spread throughout the entire country. Then ultimately leading to that crackdown where even the
government acknowledges that thousands of people were killed.
We spoke to some folks around here, and at least some of them said the despair continues. And they said they have very little trust that the
government will be able to resolve the issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In general, the situation is volatile in a way that the prices are crazy high. And, for instance, just yesterday there was a 20
to 30 percent hike in prices.
PLEITGEN: Are you confident that the government can solve the economic issues?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely not. We're certainly sure the government cannot solve it. This is something that I can say for sure.
[15:15:00]
Maybe it is dangerous. I feel this is the end of everything.
PLEITGEN: How deep is the trauma after the crackdown on the protests?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this situation, no one is able to do anything because you either have to go to the streets and be killed by weapons, or
stay at home and die of hunger.
PLEITGEN: When the protests first started here at the bazaar in late December, it was especially the carpet sellers and jewelers who first
walked out. Now, we did speak to some people here who claimed that the situation is now under control.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, the Islamic Republic can solve the problem. Actually, it's done so, 99 percent of it is resolved.
PLEITGEN: All this comes as President Trump continues to weigh his military options here in this region. Iran's leadership has said that any
attack on Iran will be met with very strong resistance. But they've also said they're willing to negotiate, however, not under duress.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Britain's prime minister hoping for what he calls a sophisticated relationship with China. Keir Starmer is there right now, becoming the
first British leader to visit in eight years. He's accompanied by dozens of business executives as he tries to reset ties with Beijing against a
backdrop of rising global trade tensions.
Mike Valerio has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, we're waiting on the deliverables. But we do know that this is a remarkable reset visit because after years of
suspicion really permeating the relationship between the U.K. and China, we now have the British prime minister here in town in Beijing saying that he
wants a relationship between the U.K. and China, delivering security and prosperity for the British people. Quite a reversal from what we've heard
from some members of the British government in recent years.
So, to that end, let's listen to Prime Minister Keir Starmer in his own words. We'll talk about it on the other side. Let's listen.
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: China is a vital player on the global stage, and it is vital that we build a more sophisticated
relationship.
VALERIO: Okay, so quite a statement there in 8-1/2 seconds.
Chinese leader Xi Jinping, very much echoing the sentiment, saying in, quote, in part a couple of minutes ago, quote, China is willing to develop
a long term, stable and comprehensive strategic partnership with Britain which will benefit the people of both countries as well as the world.
So, this reset visit is so remarkable, in part because of the primary ally, the largest and most important ally of the United Kingdom, and that would
be the United States. And we see more and more often allies of the United States, leaders of those allies from Emmanuel Macron of France, Mark Carney
of Canada, coming back to this town, Beijing, reevaluating their ties with China. So, we have not only with the British prime minister traveling with
members of his government, but also bringing with him big business names. We're talking about representatives from Jaguar Land Rover, GSK, HSBC, big
business brands from the U.K. and this is happening as so many companies around the world, myriad companies, are trying to diversify their trade
portfolios, perhaps reduce their reliance on trade with the United States.
So, it will be interesting to see what are the deliverables, what are the tangible results of this trip, especially considering where the U.K. and
China have been. I think one of the low points was certainly in 2020, when the British government said that Huawei needed to be removed from Great
Britain's 5G network, a deadline of next year still existing to remove all installed elements of Huawei technology from Britain's 5G network because
of allegations and security concerns that have been leveled by the British government.
But on the flip side, we have Keir Starmer. Just about a week ago, greenlighting the so-called "Mega Embassy" project across the street from
the Tower of London in the shadow of London's financial district, the heart financial heart of Great Britain. So, we have both of these things
happening, a new path that seems to have emerged, the British prime minister saying that he's not going to choose between relations, good
relations with China and the United States, and the next leader that perhaps will follow in this parade of Western allies coming to Beijing.
We're watching for February for German Chancellor Merkel, perhaps to make his way to Beijing also.
Mike Valerio, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Coming up, A.I. leaps to the forefront of weapons technology. How its being used to make guns even more deadly, and how warfare will never be
the same.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:22:46]
FOSTER: Artificial intelligence is everywhere. It can serve as a personal assistant or a homework tool. Now weapons manufacturers are using A.I. to
make their guns and drones more accurate and deadly than ever seemed possible actually before.
Nic Robertson has a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(GUNSHOTS)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): At an Israeli gun range, a demo of how A.I. is changing up battlefields.
SEMION, HEAD OF EUROPE, ISRAEL WEAPON INDUSTRIES: It will analyze my movements, analyze when I'm stable enough on the target, and it will
release the bullet when it calculates the maximum probability for me to hit the target.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): This tech called Arbel and others like it already in use by Israeli troops in Gaza.
(GUNSHOTS)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): A.I. enhanced weapons on you, but putting them in frontline soldiers, regular guns is cutting-edge.
SEMION: I think we're at the, let's say, the beginning of this revolution of putting A.I. on the soldiers.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The manufacturers are counting on fears of cheap, increasingly lethal battlefield drones boosting sales.
SEMION: Europe has an ecosystem that's feel very threatened by this kind of threat. We see very growing interest in this kind of solution.
ROBERTSON: The lessons of the world's cutting-edge battlefields like Ukraine, if you don't have A.I. tech in your weapon, then you just increase
your chances of getting killed. Manufacturers are racing to keep up, governments hungry to protect their troops.
BOB TOLLAST, RESEARCH FELLOW, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE: Guys are just being, you know, they're being chased into bunkers. They can't get
away. And -- and I think this is what's driving such a massive level of experimentation.
And in Ukraine alone, I've actually heard there were 63 companies just in the drone interceptor market.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): These recent videos from Ukraine show how sophisticated front line drones have become. Smart operators increasingly
helped by A.I. able to hit targets impossible a few years ago.
And it's not just Ukraine's frontline losses ringing alarm bells around Europe's capitals, airports from Denmark to the Netherlands, Germany,
France, the U.K., are also getting buzzed by fast-moving, hard-to-target drones.
The Dutch recently tried unsuccessfully to shoot them down.
As the threat multiplies, so innovation is accelerating both attack and defense, enhanced by A.I. near instantaneous software updates edging
closer.
TOLLAST: It's that iteration loop that's really changed how we're looking at warfare. That's really one of the big lessons from Ukraine, actually.
We're in an age what some people call software-defined warfare.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Even so, experts like Tollast caution against the notion an infantry soldier's A.I. tech being a defining battlefield game
changer just yet.
Back on the Israeli gun range, they're convinced A.I. augmented infantry is the way forward.
SEMION: It really dramatically increases your marksmanship, your lethality, your ability to engage, but this is the best tool to any light
arm scenario you can see at the battle.
ROBERTSON: Is there any way of going back from this now?
SEMION: No.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): What is clear, guns as we knew them are changing, becoming more deadly.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Still to come, the uproar over federal agents on the streets of Minnesota. I'll speak to someone who helped run U.S. immigration
enforcement under Barack Obama, when we come back.
(COMMERCAL BREAK)
[15:30:11]
FOSTER: Returning to our top story, the man U.S. President Donald Trump has put in charge of the immigration crackdown in Minnesota sounds like he
wants to ease tensions there. That's why he was sent there. U.S. border czar Tom Homan spoke to the media earlier today, saying he wants to draw
down the number of federal agents in Minneapolis and urge protesters to let agents do their job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOMAN: What we've been working on is making this operation safer, more efficient by the book. President Trump and I, along with others in the
administration, have recognized that certain improvements could and should be made. You have the right to protest. I'm just asking you to keep it
peaceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey says a meeting between Homan and state officials didn't include a timeline commitment. But during a CNN
town hall on Wednesday, he repeated his demand that federal immigration agents leave Minneapolis now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREY: There was a general consensus that the present status needs to change. There was a general agreement that what has been happening for
these last several weeks should not be happening into the future. Now, I made it very clear that Operation Metro Surge needs to end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: John Sandweg is a former acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He joins me now.
Thank you for joining us.
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING GENERAL COUNSEL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Yeah.
FOSTER: What do you -- what do you make of how Homan's handling this?
SANDWEG: Well, I'm not surprised. I had an opportunity to work with Tom. Spent five years working with him in the Obama administration. He's a
professional. He has a lot of law enforcement experience.
And I think that anybody who has experience working on ICE operations knew that what they saw in Minneapolis was not normal. It was not sustainable.
There's a pathway here where and I think this is what I heard Tom say today, where he wants to get ICE back into a steady state of operations,
where it doesn't mean you're abandoning a commitment to do prioritize immigration enforcement, focusing on individuals with, you know, who pose a
threat to public safety.
But it certainly doesn't look like what we had seen, right where you had roving patrols of Border Patrol agents with these violent confrontations
with protesters and doing non-targeted types of enforcement activities where they're just canvasing neighborhoods, adding a lot of people,
including U.S. citizens.
FOSTER: I think local officials in particular probably welcome the fact that he was talking about an investigation because they've been pushing for
that. Also, that he wouldn't be drawn on the investigation, unlike some of his colleagues who have condemned these protesters. People killed without
an investigation
SANDWEG: Yeah. Yeah, certainly, one of the most surprising things to me, personally, was to see senior leaders of DHS and the White House come out
so quickly and say that, oh, here's exactly what happened. We were completely justified. We were completely in the right. That -- that is
incredibly unusual.
Tom, to his credit, when he was asked first following the Ms. Good's shooting, immediately said there needs to be an investigation. Look,
standard protocol is you conduct an investigation. You can't possibly make a determination in these circumstances, what happened, especially not an
hour or 30 minutes after these incidents happened.
There's just no possible way of just -- you don't have anywhere near enough information. And of course, they came out and made these statements and
then they were quick. Those were undermined right by the videos themselves.
So, listen, an investigation that was good to hear that there will be a proper investigation, of course, whether the public will trust it.
Unfortunately, a byproduct of those statements made by Secretary Noem and Stephen Miller and others is I think it will be hard to believe that the
people will trust it going forward.
FOSTER: Well, I think that's the thing, isn't it? Because if someone had said this earlier, he'd come in earlier. It might have been easier to
convince people. But, you know, sentiment seems so far gone, lack of faith in the White House because of the things that have been said.
And that's going to be the real test, I guess, of Homan, right? If he can convince people that he's being honest with them and he has the backing of
the White House.
SANDWEG: Yeah. I mean, listen, I think when you come out, when the secretary comes out and makes those statements and then the videos come out
and undermines, right, exactly what she said. You know, this was a domestic terrorism intended to massacre. And you see the videos and it just doesn't
match up.
It doesn't just undermine the credibility of the investigation, but the agency as a whole, right? And the administration has been very clear. They
say that the basis for these operations is criminal. You know, public safety, right? We're getting criminals off the street.
And I think, you know, unfortunately, when the -- when the leader of the department makes statements that call into question her credibility and the
credibility of the department, it undermines the credibility for everything the department is doing.
But I agree with you. Listen, Tom is a straight shooter, and I thought he was very candid today. He was conceded things had not gone as well as
possible, that things could be done better, that they need to change things.
This will be the test going forward, you know, but credibility is critical. I could not agree more.
FOSTER: Protesters. I think everyone in Minneapolis wants justice, don't they? I mean, something clearly went wrong here.
[15:35:00]
Everyone seems agreed now that something went wrong.
But ultimately, two people died after the investigation. They'll want justice. Do you think they'll get that? If you look at how things are
moving forward.
SANDWEG: I don't know. I think there will be a -- look, I -- it depends on what happens with this investigation. I think it's certainly possible for
there to be a full and fair investigation. It is also possible, though, that remember these U.S. use of force investigations. You operate from
generally there's strong immunities, not absolute immunity but immunities that the officers enjoy when they're acting in their official duties.
And the questions are going to be, was the use of force justifiable in that moment? What -- did you operate from a belief that there was an imminent
threat to the safety of yourself or others? And every case is different.
And again, I'm not going to hazard a guess here based on, you know, the videos I've seen. I know you need more evidence that you need to, you know,
hear the interviews with that officer. You need to look at other videos and interview witnesses. But the bottom line is, more often than not, in these
kind of cases, there's a decision that it doesn't.
Maybe there is -- there's findings that there was misconduct but doesn't or that mistakes were made, but it doesn't rise to the level of a criminal
prosecution. And I think that just given the tone and the politicized tone that was set early on, if there's a decision that this doesn't rise at the
federal level to a prosecution, I suspect there'll be a lot of people who feel like justice was not properly served.
FOSTER: John Sandweg, I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Now, it's the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks are down, the Dow Jones slipping today. As you can see, global shares weighed down by a
sharp drop for Microsoft after releasing quarterly results. All eyes now on apple whose results come out tonight.
This is our Business Breakout.
Donald Trump has once again lashed out at the chair of the Federal Reserve for not cutting interest rates. President Trump posted on social media that
Jerome Powell has no reason to keep them so high. Jerome Powell has refused to cave to political pressure from him. The Fed lowered interest rates
three times in 2025 but kept them unchanged this month.
Reporters at "The Washington Post" White Douse desk have written a letter to owner Jeff Bezos urging him not to shrink the outlets newsroom. There
have been several signs recently. "The Post" is about to announce imminent cuts in areas like sports and foreign affairs. Whilst the White House team
does not appear to be at risk, the reporters say cutting jobs from other areas diminishes the entire newsroom.
Oil prices are rising as investors fear the global oil supply might be disrupted if the U.S. attacks Iran. President Donald Trump is weighing a
major new strike as talks over Iran's nuclear program stall. Brent crude oil is currently at around $68 a barrel.
Elon Musk is discussing the future of Tesla, and it's not electric cars that he's talking about, but robots. During an earnings call on Wednesday,
the CEO announced Tesla would discontinue its model S and model X instead, the company will focus on making more of its Optimus humanoid robots. Musk
says the goal is to make 1 million units a year.
Hadas Gold joins us now from New York.
Obviously, issues with his cars are there. We've seen that in the results as well. So he's pinning more on the robots. I mean, how do we read this?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, for a while now, Elon Musk would say, hey Tesla, you should not think of it as a car company.
It's actually an A.I. robotics company. And now this is one of the first times we're seeing that come into reality. He made the surprise
announcement that Tesla is going to be completely discontinuing two of its models, the Tesla Model X, the Tesla Model S, and converting that factory
space into making these Optimus humanoid robots.
And as you noted, the goal is to make 1 million of these robots per year at this factory space. I should note that we don't know exactly how many
Optimus robots Tesla is making right now, but it's definitely in the thousands, potentially in the hundreds right now. So that would indicate a
really, really huge ramp up if they eventually want to reach.
Now, Musk has very futuristic sort of utopian visions for what Optimus will be. He says that it will be everything from a factory worker to somebody
who can help clean your house to something that can actually perform surgery. It's a key part of his mission to Mars, in a way. And he also has
talked about how he believes that humanoid robots, and Optimus in particular, are the key to even eliminating poverty and making work
optional.
Not everyone believes in this utopian vision of his. I've been speaking to a raft of experts who say, listen, humanoid robots are incredibly
complicated. They can have upwards of 50 motors. Even just the thought of, you know, trying to grip something. For us, it's very easy to know how to
grip a glass, let's say, whether it's wet, whether its dry versus gripping a sheet of metal that is incredibly hard to emulate in a robots hands.
It also is, in a way, as one expert told me, almost more complicated to get a robot to tie a pair of shoes than to get a rocket into space. That goes
to show you how complicated it is. And the industry also has a lot of competition, especially coming out of China. So, this isn't sort of a wide
open space for them to go into.
[15:40:01]
But Elon Musk says Optimus could potentially even be up for sale at the end of next year. I will note there's been a lot of times in history Elon Musk
has made predictions about timelines that he does not meet at all. But another key issue of all of this is that Optimus is a key part of that $1
trillion pay package that Tesla shareholders approved for Elon Musk. If he wants to hit that $1 trillion pay package, he needs to produce 1 million of
these robots, deliver them within the next ten years.
FOSTER: Well, they can already dance better than me.
Hadas Gold, thank you very much for joining us.
Still to come, some of Americas closest allies are saying, I think we should see other people. We'll look at what caused this rift.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Are America's biggest allies keeping their options open? Well, earlier we showed you the British prime minister in Beijing calling for a
more sophisticated relationship with China. U.K. not alone. Canada recently signed its own trade partnership with China, despite complaints from Donald
Trump.
The U.S. president has been focused on new threats of tariffs and unpredictable foreign policy. Last week in Davos, Canada's prime minister
said the old order was coming apart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much.
It seems that every day, we're reminded that we live in an era of great power, rivalry, that the rules-based order is fading. Let me be direct. We
are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: And America's allies aren't just turning to China. India and the European Union agreed a massive trade deal on Tuesday, and with the spat
over Donald Trump's wish to annex Greenland, one European diplomat says were dealing with a new volatile reality.
What we don't know is how Americas allies given up then on the old order.
Joining me now is Clayton Allen. He covers Washington for the Eurasia Group.
Appreciate you joining us today.
[15:45:01]
I think the India-E.U. deal was very interesting because they've been talking about that for 20 years, and both sides said it happened now
because of issues with trade with America. So that's a really strong example of the reaction amongst allies to what America is doing. They're
basically coming closer together themselves.
CLAYTON ALLEN, U.S. PRACTICE HEAD, EURASIA GROUP: I would absolutely agree with that. I think that you've seen that across a number of different
dynamics, post-Greenland. Greenland and Trump's ambitions for control. I think, took concerns over U.S. unpredictability and untrustworthiness from
the theoretical to the practical for a number of global leaders in Europe, Asia and beyond. The E.U.-India trade deal, the Canada-China trade deal and
certainly the increasing openness that we're seeing from European capitals towards Beijing are all different expressions of that same concern.
FOSTER: Yeah. So Starmer, who's in Beijing right now under huge pressure from some of the opposition parties, for example, saying, you know, the
Secret Services have described China as one of the main security threats. But Starmer pointing out that this is a major ally, economic ally that we
need to work with, and there is a compromise there, but we need to move ahead with it. And obviously, the weakening ties with America play into
that.
ALLEN: That's exactly correct. I think that what you're seeing is in certain circumstances, I think it's a combination of the middle powers. As
carney put it, combining their forces to try to offset U.S. interest in others. Its single major powers, the U.K., Germany and others looking for
economic relation with China, or at least stability because they see the U.S. as potentially a less predictable economic partner. Even taking away
the security discussion, tariff threats, threats of trade barriers, unpredictable direction on any number of negotiation fronts, all of those
reinforce the need for, if not an opening to China on the part of European allies, at least an effort to maintain stability there.
FOSTER: What about the impact on America? Because presumably, if you've got India and Europe with a free trade deal, they're more likely to buy
from each other when they can rather than the U.S.
ALLEN: I think it's really a story of where things go in the future, not necessarily eroding from where things are today. With India, that's a
growing market. It's a market the U.S. is very focused on accessing. There's a trade deal that, in theory, has been completed and has been
sitting on a shelf for months. It hasn't been finalized because of last minute demands from the U.S. side around weapons purchases and reduction in
Indian purchases of Russian crude. It's also a case of U.S. and India trade negotiations have historically always taken a very long time at the 11th
hour.
But the U.S. is trying to access that same market. I think that's a clear reflection of where the U.S. sees potential demand growth, potential
economic growth, growth in FDI. And certainly, the Europeans are now better positioned, at least as of today, to take advantage of that.
FOSTER: Is there something in the fact that China now looks so stable compared with America? And if you're going to sign long-term deals, you'd
rather do it with a nation which is really strategic, with a really long term goal than one, you know, you can't even predict from day to day?
ALLEN: I'd be careful about over ascribing stability to China or framing the deals that have been struck as the very long term binding commitments.
Look at the Canadian agreement to call this a sweeping free trade agreement. I think massively overstates the import of it. It's more an
effort to ease marginally some of the restrictions and some of the measures that have been taken, especially during the Biden administration, to try to
close off Chinese access to western markets. That marginal relaxation does not a free trade agreement make.
So, I think that we're yet to be at the point where you can say definitively, oh, China is this much more stable, much more strategic
partner. No, it's just a partner or it's just a market at this point that seems to have more immediate stability.
I think long term, the picture for China, the questions about their own economic growth, the sustainability of that, and certainly the impact of
domestic fiscal stimulus within China all raise questions about their ability to continue to, you know, fill the role of a good trade partner or
a productive one.
The Europeans, I think it's understood, are also concerned about Chinese dumping of overcapacity into their market, if this continues for long
enough.
FOSTER: Okay. Clayton Allen from Eurasia Group, thank you. Fascinating chat.
Protests in Texas at an immigration detention site will have more on that, and the latest calls to release a five-year-old and his father detained in
Minnesota.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:52:28]
FOSTER: A Democratic lawmaker in Texas is calling on President Trump and his adviser, Stephen Miller, to visit the immigration detention facility in
Dilley, Texas. That's where five-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos is being housed, along with his father, who was detained by ICE in Minneapolis last
week.
Since then, Dilley has seen protests calling for Liam's release. And Congressman Joaquin Castro met with Liam and his father on Wednesday.
CNN's Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): You can see from the picture that I posted that he was lying in his father's arms. His father said that Liam has been
very depressed since he's been at Dilley, that he hasn't been eating well. I was concerned with -- you see how he appears in that photo with his
energy. He seemed lethargic.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congressman Joaquin Castro met with five-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos and his father,
Adrian, during a visit inside the south Texas family residential center in Dilley, Texas.
For more than three hours, the congressman says he met not only with Liam's family, but also with hundreds of other detainees.
Castro said Liam has been asking about his family and his classmates back in Minnesota.
CASTRO: He said that he misses his classmates and his family and wants to be back at school, and he keeps asking about that hat and that backpack
that are in the picture. I think they took that from him.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Liam and his father were taken into ICE custody last week in suburban Minneapolis amid the Trump administrations
immigration crackdown in the state, sparking anti-ICE anger within the community and across the country.
The Department of Homeland Security says Liam's father was in the country illegally, and that agents only took the five-year-old boy after his father
asked that he stay with him. An attorney for the family disputes that, saying Adrian Conejo Arias hadn't committed any crimes and was following,
quote, all of the established protocols for seeking asylum in the U.S.
Outside the facility in Dilley, Texas, hundreds of protesters clashed with Texas state police demanding Liam and his father and other families be
released immediately.
While federal officials claim the family inside are cared for. An attorney who says he represents a family there says the conditions are, quote, worse
than people think.
ERIC LEE, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: The water is putrid. They have to mix baby formula with water that nobody wants to even smell. The food has bugs in
it. The food has dirt in it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:55:00]
LAVANDERA: After spending more than three hours in this family detention facility in Dilley, Texas, Congressman Joaquin Castro says these families
should be released. He says he met a two-month-old baby who has spent days inside the facility already, and after emerging from his visit there, the
congressman went on to call for the disbandment of ICE, as well as the impeachment of Department of Homeland Secretary Kristi Noem.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: And finally, in the coming hours, Melania Trump will walk the red carpet for the premiere of a documentary that bears her first name into a
building that bears her last name. The "Melania" documentary captures 20 days in the life of the first lady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, U.S. FIRST LADY: Everyone wants to know. So here it is.
Hi, Mr. President. Congratulations.
TRUMP: Did you watch it?
M. TRUMP: I did not, yeah. I will see it on the news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: The whole project is something unprecedented for a sitting first lady and pretty unprecedented as well for the movie industry. We'll see how
it goes.
I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW. Stay with CNN.
END
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