Return to Transcripts main page

What We Know with Max Foster

Israel And Lebanon Hold First Direct Talks In Decades; Source: U.S. Eyes Potential Second Round Of Talks With Iran; IMF Cuts Global Growth Forecasts, Blames War In Iran; How Long Will Iran War's Economic Fallout Last?; Trump Continues To Attack The Pope Over Iran War Comments; U.S. House Members Swalwell & Gonzales Plan To Resign; Suspect To Appear In Court After Attack At OpenAI CEO's Home. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 14, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:34]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Historic peace talks for Lebanon and Israel.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

History being made then. Today, two countries at war since 1948, holding talks in Washington, ambassadors from Israel and Lebanon met face to face.

The U.S. is brokering the peace efforts as it tries to stabilize a ceasefire with Iran. Hezbollah wasn't at the table but was a big focus of

the talks.

Israel and Hezbollah have been exchanging attacks between the broader truce, and Israel is vowing to cement its control of southern Lebanon as a

security buffer zone.

Israel's ambassador to the U.S. says Israel and Lebanon's government are united against Hezbollah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YECHIEL LEITER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: We discovered today that we're on the same side of the equation, and that's the most positive thing we

could have come away with. We talked about a number of things and most importantly, the vision, the long-term vision, where there will be a

clearly delineated border between our countries, and where the only reason we'll need to cross each other's territory will be in business suits to

conduct business or in bathing suits to go on vacation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio acknowledges that the deep rooted issues between Israel and Lebanon won't be resolved overnight. He

calls this a process that could eventually lead to a lasting peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: All of the complexities of this matter are not going to be resolved in the next six hours, but we can begin to

move forward and create the framework where something can happen, something very positive, something very permanent, so that the people of Lebanon can

have the kind of future they deserve, and so that the people of Israel can live without fear and struck by rocket attacks from the terrorist proxy of

Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Jennifer Hansler is in Washington, and I've said it already, but Hezbollah wasn't at the table, and that's who Israel says it's at war with,

not with Lebanon. So how does this actually work?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, that's the big question here, Max. How do you actually implement any sort of agreement

that would be reached through these talks, particularly as Hezbollah has said they would not honor anything that came out of these negotiations. We

just got a statement from the U.S. State Department giving a broad overview of what was discussed in the talks that generally aligns with what we heard

going in to this morning's historic meeting. They said Israel called for the arming of the militant groups in Lebanon, that they said that they were

committed to their own national security there.

Lebanon, according to the State Department readout, called for a ceasefire. And the big news we heard from the Israeli ambassador to the United States

after that meeting was that he did not commit to any sort of ceasefire in the Israeli strikes on Lebanon. He said that they would continue to protect

their own national security. Of course, in the past several weeks, Max, we have seen a barrage of Israeli military strikes, including on civilian

infrastructure, including in Beirut. One last week killed some hundreds of people, according to the Lebanese public health ministry.

So, there is still a wide gap, it seems, between the two sides coming out of these direct negotiations. Now, these talks lasted about two hours here

at the State Department. And as we heard from secretary rubio, he was kind of setting expectations here that this was not going to be a quick process.

This was not going to be a one and done meeting.

The other big statement out of this State Department readout that we just got was that the sides had agreed to meet, again at a mutually agreed upon

time and place, but there were no further details on where the talks go from here, at what level they'll be held at.

The Israeli ambassador sort of indicated that they would again be working level talks in the coming weeks, but we don't know for sure if there's

going to be a lot of concrete progress moving forward as this wide gap remains. But it is significant that these two sides did sit down here for

the first time in decades, and the stakes are incredibly high. The world was watching all of these talks today before they started. There was a

statement from, I believe it was 17 countries calling for a de-escalation of the situation in Lebanon -- Max.

FOSTER: Jennifer Hansler, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Well, an Iranian lawmaker says Tehran will continue talks with the U.S. despite its belief that Trump administration officials are not trustworthy.

That's after a source told CNN us officials are hopeful that negotiations will resume soon.

[15:05:00]

U.S. President Donald Trump told "The New York Post" earlier that something could be happening in the next two days in Pakistan, but didn't provide any

detail.

The ceasefire between the United States and Iran expires a week from today.

CNN's chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, is with us from Riyadh.

I mean, what's the thinking from there, Clarissa?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think everyone very much wants to see a ceasefire hold and potentially be

prolonged. And certainly, there have been a sort of flurry of activities in the last couple of days since those talks failed in Islamabad, to get both

sides back to the table once again. While there is still a week left on the clock of the ceasefire, and as you mentioned, Max, we have seen a kind of

back and forth a dance, if you will, on the Iranian side.

Initially, they were saying just earlier today that there was no truth to these reports, that there were going to be a second round of talks held in

Islamabad. Now we hear from this Iranian lawmaker who is saying, okay, we might continue in these talks. But just to expose the U.S. duplicitous

behavior. And now we have heard President Trump himself, as you mentioned, telling "The New York Post" that he hopes to see talks in Islamabad as soon

as in the next couple of days.

Again, there have been a bunch of conflicting reporting, max, about whether they would take place in Islamabad, given how far away it is from the U.S.,

whether they might take place in Geneva. But all of this, broadly speaking, Max, is being received as positive noise, a positive indication that at

this stage, neither side has any interest in reverting back to the full blown kinetic stage of this conflict that we have witnessed.

Here in the Gulf countries, though. Max, there is a real concern that any deal that is struck or might be -- might be struck must include very, very

strict rules about the Strait of Hormuz. They will not accept Iran being an even partial control of the Strait of Hormuz. They will not accept Iran

charging a toll to ships that pass through and for the most part, here in the Gulf, the U.S.'s blockade of the Strait of Hormuz has been seen as

something positive, even though publicly they have been very quiet about it.

But at the same time, they want to wrap this thing up. It has been devastating for the economies of these Gulf countries, and they are the

ones who will be left to contend with a potentially weakened, unstable and aggressive or belligerent Iran long after the U.S. up sticks and leaves.

So, a lot of pressure here to make sure those peace talks take place. Another round with hopes that potentially those divisions that we've heard

about 20 years delay on nuclear enrichment on the U.S. side, five years delay was the counteroffer from the Iranians. The U.S. said that wasn't

enough. This is according to a source who spoke to CNN.

Remains to be seen whether they can find some overlap or come to an agreement. But certainly, a lot of pressure globally to try to make it

happen, Max.

FOSTER: Absolutely. Clarissa in Riyadh, thank you for that.

Well, the war with Iran will affect global growth this year. And the IMF is warning the damage will be a lot more severe the longer the war continues.

The International Monetary Fund now expects a global growth of 3.1 percent this year, slightly down from initial forecasts.

But the IMF says a longer-term war could push the global economy close to a recession. What we don't know is how long will the economic fallout from

the Iran war last?

I guess, Richard, that's because we don't know whether this ceasefire is going to even hold.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Well, it doesn't really matter up to a point, because the damage is done. This cake is baking. So

even if everything was to go right tomorrow, there is enough economic damage now in the system for this slowdown to happen and arguably get

worse.

Oil prices are still over $100 a barrel in the U.S. A price of a gallon is still over $4 a gallon. So, you've got a scenario here. And the reason I

think it's more significant than just the number, you might arguably say, Richard, what difference, 3.1, 3.3, it's all the same because the trend was

getting better. Things were looking up, inflation was coming down, growth was going up. The Fed looked like it might cut interest rates again.

So, the scenario was highly or more favorable. Now it's gone into reverse. And that I think is really what the significance of what the IMF said

today.

FOSTER: Because we've done a lot of reporting on how individual countries are affected. But the reality is this is a global crisis.

QUEST: Completely. And it doesn't matter where you look.

[15:10:00]

Let's just pick a country, any country, as they say, you're talking about India, Southeast Asia, they're running out of fuel, talking about the U.S.

They're paying the same high price because oil is traded as a commodity internationally. You're talking about Europe. By the way, I am now hearing

from aviation officials in Europe and airport officials in Europe who say another few weeks, and we could seriously be looking at running out of jet

fuel in Europe.

FOSTER: Is there a point where we start talking about recession?

QUEST: Oh, yes.

FOSTER: Just slowing growth.

QUEST: Yes. And I'll tell you what I've always said, there is very little difference between growth of 0.3 and recession of minus 0.3.

FOSTER: Easy-to tip.

QUEST: You know, if you're hovering around zero, it feels pretty bad for everybody involved.

What I think is a bit weird today is the way the market is on such a tear. I mean, we're up really very strong numbers and this is on more of a wing

and a prayer because oil prices seem to have eased off just a tad. And there's the possibility of more talks, but it's all -- it's scotch mist.

First whiff of something and it'll disappear.

FOSTER: In terms of the talks, then you obviously want to see them start. But in terms of specifics, what do you want to hear from there? We just

heard from Clarissa saying the Strait of Hormuz is, you know, central obviously to the global economy. But actually, the fundamental issue here

is about uranium enrichment. And that's going to be the long-term answer both sides are looking for.

QUEST: Well, it's the cause and the effect. Yes, the enrichment question, the -- what happens to the stuff that's already there. Those are the

issues. But the solution is how do you get the straits open?

Now you have this very strange situation where the U.S. has decided to blockade the very thing that they're trying to open. But bear in mind, Max,

every single day that there's no oil or gas flowing through the straits makes this economic potential recession much worse. And that is not going

to change. These are economic hard facts.

FOSTER: Richard Quest, more on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS", of course, in the next hour.

Now, Donald Trump is refusing to let his feud with Pope Leo die down. Meanwhile, the U.S. president said Tuesday that the pontiff shouldn't be

talking about the war in Iran because he has no idea what's happening. It comes amid calls from the pope for the U.S. to stop its attacks on Iran.

A long-time friend of the Catholic leader says pressure from Mr. Trump won't cause the pope to back down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FATHER JOHN LYDON, FRIEND OF POPE LEO XIV: My experience living with the pope in Peru, he's not going to back down on that. He's not going to get in

the political muck, but he's not going to back down on the principal values of the gospel, because that's what his responsibility is to the church and

to God himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: All of this is happening as the pope is in the spotlight with the 10-day tour of four African nations.

CNN's Christopher Lamb is traveling with him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Vatican keen to draw a line under the attack from President Donald Trump on Pope Leo, as

the pontiff embarks on his second day in Algeria as part of his Africa visit. Nevertheless, the tensions between the Trump administration and the

pope only growing, including after Vice President J.D. Vance telling Fox News the Vatican should, quote, "stick to matters of morality", and of

course, stay focused on the church.

In a message to the pontifical academy of social sciences from April 1st but released today, Leo underscored his thoughts on democracy, saying,

quote, "Democracy remains healthy, however, only when rooted in the moral law and a true vision of the human person. Lacking this foundation, it

risks becoming either a majoritarian tyranny or a mask for the dominance of economic and technological elites."

Now, today, Leo visited Annaba in northeastern Algeria. What is a very personal pilgrimage for this pope. This is the place where Saint Augustine

of Hippo, one of the most influential figures in Christianity, served as a bishop. And Saint Augustine, of course, is the spiritual inspiration, the

spiritual father for the Augustinian religious order, of which Pope Leo is a member, and a former leader.

Now, Leo visiting the ruins of the basilica where Augustine was a bishop, was a deeply personal and poignant one for the first Augustinian pope, and

it underlines that while Algeria is a Muslim country -- Muslim majority country, it has ancient Christian roots and many Muslims in this country

revere and respect Augustine. This underlining the importance of Christian- Muslim relations on this visit.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Annaba.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Two members of Congress say they will resign after being accused of having sexual relationships with people who work for them.

[15:15:00]

Democrat Eric Swalwell faced a House Ethics investigation over sexual assault allegations. He already suspended his campaign to become

California's next governor. Swalwell has denied the allegations.

Republican Tony Gonzales faced the possibility of a vote to expel him from Congress. Gonzalez previously acknowledged having an affair with the former

staffer.

CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju joins us live from Washington with more -- Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. In fact, just moments ago, Max, these two members announced their resignation, effective

immediately. So, they are no longer members of the House, both Congressmen Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales, now former members amid two separate

sexual misconduct scandals.

But is the situation involving Eric Swalwell that has gotten enormous amount of attention, given that he was a lead candidate to be the next

governor of California, but has seen his career collapse amid these very serious allegations, including an alleged rape. Now, he has denied these

allegations, but many members, including people who are close to him, were taken aback, one of which was Senator Ruben Gallego, Arizona Democrat, one

of his closest friends in Congress, someone who chaired Swalwell's 2020 presidential campaign. He just spoke to me, and as well as some other

reporters, and he indicated that he had no knowledge whatsoever about this, about any of these allegations, even though they were very close and spent

lots of time together behind the scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What about any sort of position that he might have put himself in, any compromising position? Did he -- was he drinking excessively?

SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): We --

RAJU: Was he around --

GALLEGO: Yeah.

RAJU: Did you see any of that?

GALLEGO: I didn't see that. But look, we all heard rumors in Washington, D.C. about Eric Swalwell for -- for many years. And my family, again, was

with him all the time with his wife, with his kids. And we saw a different side of Eric that I never saw.

RAJU: First heard these rumors about flirtatious behavior, should you have done something differently?

GALLEGO: I think I should have talked to him about it. I think I should have told him, you know, this is what I'm hearing out there, and I think,

you know, you should know about it. And if you're doing it, stop.

You know, I fell into the trap again because I think I was too inside the family bubble that I just didn't think it was -- it was that and certainly

did not think of, I never would have imagined it was to the point where we saw right now even, you know, like were talking about harassment of staff.

I never would have imagined that.

And I never heard actual accusations of harassment of staff or predatory behavior towards staff. And it's just, you know, again, when you're -- when

you're in with a family, you've known each other, you've gone through some horrible situations together, you let your guard down.

I let him in. I let him in. I let him into my circle and trusted my family with him. And I deeply regret it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Well, with Swalwell and Gonzales now out, the focus will turn to two other members facing their own ethics problems. Congressman Cory Mills, a

Republican of Florida, and Congresswoman Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, a Democrat from Florida. Both of them could see expulsion votes in the days

ahead as well -- Max.

FOSTER: Manu, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

In California, we're waiting for the arraignment of a man who allegedly attacked the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. Twenty-year-old Daniel Moreno-

Gama faces attempted murder and attempted arson charges. This after authorities say he attacked both Altman's home and the San Francisco

headquarters of OpenAI.

Now, this isn't the first violent case related to anti-A.I. sentiment. CNN's Hadas Gold explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: The alleged suspect in this case is 20-year-old Daniel Moreno-Gama from Texas. He is accused of allegedly going

to Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI's home, in the early hours of Friday morning, throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home before then going to

OpenAI's offices in San Francisco, where he tried to break the front doors, the glass doors with a chair there, before telling security personnel that

he wanted to kill everybody inside.

Police say that nobody was injured. He was arrested at the site of OpenAI's offices. In his possession, they found incendiary materials, and they also

say that they found a manifesto of sorts that he wrote. They called it an anti-A.I. manifesto. They said that it warned about A.I. -- the risk that

A.I. poses to humanity, and that it also allegedly advocated for the killing of A.I. CEOs and their investors.

Authorities say he is now facing attempted murder and attempted arson charges, in addition to federal level crimes, and that he could also face

charges related to domestic terrorism. Take a listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant is alleged to having traveled across state lines with the intent to target an individual and a major technology

company. This was not spontaneous.

[15:20:00]

This was planned, targeted and extremely serious.

GOLD: This is not the first time we've seen violence related to a connected to anti-A.I. sentiment. Actually, just last week in Indianapolis,

a member of the city council there who had expressed support for a data center in Indianapolis, he said that his home was fired on 13 times and a

note left on his doorstep saying, no data centers.

There's been an overall rise in anti-A.I. sentiment. People are worried about not just data centers in their backyard. They're also worried about

A.I.'s effect on the economy, on jobs, on education, and on mental health, as we're seeing rising cases of what some psychologists are calling A.I.

psychosis.

Sam Altman, for his part, he posted a blog post about the incident. He posted a rare photo of his family, saying that he hopes it will help

dissuade the next attack, and he acknowledged the rising fears and uncertainty around ai, writing in part that the fear and anxiety about A.I.

is justified, saying we are in the process of witnessing the largest change to society in a long time and perhaps ever. We have to get safety right,

which is not just about aligning a model and saying we urgently need a society wide response to be resilient to these new threats.

As for the suspect in the attack on Sam Altman's home, he is going to be facing an arraignment this afternoon in San Francisco. We will then learn

his plea.

Hadas Gold, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Coming up, the tactics Russia is using to target its university students. It's an effort to lure them into military service.

CNN investigates when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: As Moscow faces mounting losses in the battlefield in Ukraine, Russian universities are funneling students into the military through a mix

of financial incentives, misleading promises and coercion.

Our Clare Sebastian investigates how universities are applying the pressure, particularly to struggling students, as the Kremlin tries to

desperately sustain its war in Ukraine.

[15:25:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is not a war-themed computer game. It's a recruitment video designed to convince students to

join Russia's drone forces.

"You were told you were wasting time on video games," says this clip. "But there is a place where your experience is especially valuable."

The videos, which began appearing on university websites and social media pages around the start of the year, all advertised military contracts in

Russia's newly formed unmanned systems forces. Here, you see a gamer on the left, a drone operator on the right. One university captioned it, choose

the right skin.

SEBASTIAN: But behind the flashy P.R., there is a darker side to this. Few students will speak out publicly, but some of those we have reached have

told us anonymously that the pressure on them is rising.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Everything changed this year, wrote one student. All the top people in the university are now calling on students to go to

war. Students at risk of failure are a common target, hardly consistent with an effort to form an elite brigade.

In this video, sent to CNN by one student, a woman tells the group, "If I were you, I would consider an option to join the drone forces. It will be

as if you're missing credits never existed."

Another student told us on a single day in February, his university almost expelled a third of our group and forced them to sign a contract on the

spot to keep their place.

Through videos, posters and in-person meetings, sometimes with soldiers serving in Ukraine, students are being promised an easier war experience, a

one-year fixed term and opportunity to serve far from the front line. Huge payouts and high-tech skills.

And yet --

ARTEM KYLGA, RUSSIAN HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Everything is a lie. It's a simple contact with the Russian army without a deadline, without -- without

special term.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): This is the small print Russia's 2022 decree on mobilization, which was never canceled, states every military contract

remains in force until that decree is revoked, no exceptions and no guarantees experts and anti-war activists say that the drone unit is where

they'll end up..

GRIGORY SVERDLIN, FOUNDER, IDITE LESOM: As soon as the person signs a contract, he's literally a slave of ministry of defense, and he can be sent

to whatever unit ministry of defense will need.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): It's not clear yet how many students have been recruited so far. The Russian ministry of defense has not responded to CNNs

request for comment, but none of the students we spoke to are buying it. "I don't find this nonsense convincing," wrote one. I'm deeply opposed to the

military propaganda."

"Among my classmates, no one is considering signing a contract, even those in a very difficult financial situation," wrote another.

Russian losses in Ukraine have been mounting in recent months. Its system of enticing soldiers with huge salaries and bonuses under increasing

strain.

KATERYNA STEPANENKO, RUSSIAN TEAM LEAD, INSTITUTE FOR STUDY OF WAR: There's a lot of estimates in terms of the recruitment getting more

expensive for the Kremlin, which is why coercion is becoming more prominent.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The main battle for peace is inside you, claims this recruitment video. Russia's internal battle for manpower is

escalating.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: The Russian defense ministry did not respond to CNN's request for comment on that.

Well, still to come, J.D. Vance thrusts into the global stage last week with two high profile chances to prove himself. Why those actually fell

flat after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:12]

FOSTER: Very little traffic is leaving or entering Iranian ports on the first full day of the U.S. naval blockade, delivering yet another blow to

the global economy. Data appears to show that at least nine commercial ships passed through the Strait of Hormuz since Monday. That includes a

Chinese owned oil tanker sanctioned by the U.S.

The U.S. Central Command says six vessels turned around and returned to Iranian ports.

Now, Vice President J.D. Vance has accused Iran of economic terrorism by closing the Strait of Hormuz. He told FOX News as long as Iran blocks the

strait, the U.S. will block Iranian ships.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They basically threaten any ship that's moving through the Straits of Hormuz. Well, as the

president of United States showed, two can play at that game. And if the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, were going to

abide by a simple principle that no Iranian ships are getting out either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Now, the vice president has had a week of high profile and high stakes political setbacks. Vance led talks with Iran in Pakistan over the

weekend, but ultimately failed to reach a deal to end that war. A few days prior, he rallied alongside Hungary's populist leader and Trump ally Viktor

Orban. Orban would go on to lose the government for the first time since 2010 this weekend.

And in recent days, J.D. Vance has been thrust into the middle of a feud between his boss and his spiritual leader. Donald Trump has lashed out at

Pope Leo over his criticism of the war in Iran. The pope says he's not afraid of the Trump administration. Vance, who has been public about his

Catholic faith, isn't taking sides but says their disagreement is -- is healthy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: We certainly have a good relationship with the Vatican, but we're also going to disagree on substantive questions from time to time. I think

that's a totally reasonable thing. I certainly think that in some cases, it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to

matters of what's going on in the Catholic Church and let the president of the United States stick to dictating American public policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So what we want to know is, how has J.D. Vance managed this moment in the spotlight?

Joining us now, David Graham, his staff writer at "The Atlantic", and author of "The Project: How Project 25 is Reshaping America".

I mean, it was interesting, wasn't it, David, because we didn't see much of Vance in the buildup to the war. And the assumption was that he didn't

approve of it. And then he could come in potentially and solve it, which may have worked for him. But just how do you think he's handled that --

that story?

DAVID GRAHAM, AUTHOR, "THE PROJECT: HOW PROJECT 2025 IS RESHAPING AMERICA": I think it's a difficult spot for him. And he's, you know, being handed

jobs by the administration that are somewhat thankless. This is going to be a difficult negotiation with such short time and with the Iranians feeling

an upper hand, and the polls in Hungary showed that Viktor Orban was in difficult straits.

[15:35:03]

You know, what the administration says is they did it not because it was an easy political win, but because it was the right thing to do. But I think

Vance is discovering what many vice presidents have, which is that you often get stuck with kind of the grunt work and things that don't benefit

you politically.

FOSTER: Presumably, I mean, how does it work between him and Trump? You say he's been given the grunt work, but there's a discussion. Is he able to

say no to stuff or is he, you know, told what to do?

GRAHAM: It appears that he can sort of absent himself from some things, as we saw in his quietness about the war in Iran and also about the strikes on

Venezuela. But we've never seen Vance really publicly break with the president. His team has put out kind of leaks saying that he disagreed with

the decision to go to war, but, you know, the way Trump operates is if you break with him publicly, he will cut you off and he will really come down

on you very hard.

And I think Vance is trying to negotiate that tension to preserve his own identity and his political future, but also to maintain Trump's patronage.

FOSTER: We also saw that, didn't we, with the criticism of the pope, because one would assume, as a devout Catholic, that he was offended by

that image. And some of the language coming from the president. But he did word around it, didn't he, separating, you know, the spiritual role of the

church, and actually the fact that the Vatican is a country as well. So, he, do you think he skirted that effectively?

GRAHAM: I think he almost skirted it effectively. You know, in some ways, Vance is right. It's totally reasonable and healthy for the U.S. government

and the Vatican government to have different views on things. If you go back to the 1960s, when the U.S. elected its first Catholic president,

there was deep concern that he would simply follow the lead of the Vatican and make the U.S. a vassal state.

So that's sort of differences, I think, are healthy. But his then division that the Trump, the pope should stay out of moral issues or stick to moral

issues, I think is very peculiar. The idea that war and peace are not a moral issue, I think doesn't hold a lot of water. And so that points, I

think, to the difficult role he has in trying to mediate between these two powerful men.

FOSTER: How do you think it speaks to his potential to be -- to replace President Trump or to be a president at some point? Because optics are

important, aren't they? If he's associated with lots of losing causes, it's not going to be good. But presumably, you know, it wouldn't be good to show

disloyalty to a president either.

GRAHAM: Right, exactly.

As we saw with Kamala Harris, you can't be too loyal to the president who you serve, or it could cause problems for you. Vance is a kind of unproven

quantity. He's run two campaigns in his life, and he's won them both. But he won them both, basically, with Trump's help. He won the Senate with

Trump's endorsement. And he won the vice presidency on a ticket with Trump.

We don't really know how good a campaign he is and what his chops are. And so he's sort of working these things out in public. And if he wants to win

in 2028, he somehow needs to both maintain Trump's support, but also keep enough distance that he doesn't get tied to -- to the most unpopular

elements of the Trump administration. That takes a really deft politician. And I don't think we know yet if J.D. Vance is that deft.

FOSTER: Okay, appreciate it. David Graham of "The Atlantic", it's been a big talking point and thanks for talking it through with us.

Now, it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks are up. The Dow is up triple digits actually, are now up for the year as well as a

whole.

This is our Business Breakout.

Donald Trump's treasury secretary has backed the Federal Reserve and says it should wait and see before cutting interest rates. Scott Bessent told

"Semafor" that the Fed is doing the right thing by sitting and watching as the war in Iran knocks the U.S. economy and raises some prices. President

Trump has consistently pressured the Fed to cut rates.

Meanwhile, senators will hold a hearing next week on Donald Trump's nomination of Kevin Warsh to replace Jerome Powell as Fed chair. That's

according to the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, Tim Scott, speaking to Fox Business. Another Republican senator on the committee has

threatened to block the nomination unless the Justice Department drops an investigation into Powell.

A large fire tore through a garage in China owned by the electric car company BYD. Video posted on social media shows thick black smoke billowing

into the air in the city of Shenzhen, the company said the fire broke out in an area for test vehicles and scrapped cars. It said no casualties were

reported.

The International Chamber of Shipping says the U.S. blockade in the Strait of Hormuz is a step backwards. The trade group for shipping companies says

there are 20,000 seafarers stuck in the Persian Gulf right now as the traffic is choked off there.

Its chairman spoke to CNN's Ivan Watson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To understand more, I'm now joined by John Denholm. He's the chairman designate of the

International Chamber of Shipping. So that's a century old trade association.

[15:40:01]

And you represent about 80 percent of global commercial shipping, right? So I'd like to ask you, you know, the -- we're less than a day into a U.S.

naval blockade of all shipping from Iranian ports in the Gulf. What is your response to that American blockade?

JOHN DENHOLM, CHAIRMAN DESIGNATE, INTERNATIONAL CHAMBER OF SHIPPING: I think it's a retrograde step. You know, it's likely to lead to retaliation

by the Iranians to stop other ships coming out of non-Iranian ports. We need to reestablish freedom of navigation in the Straits of Hormuz.

The whole of world trade is based on freedom of navigation. We don't want tolls. We don't want embargoes. We don't want blockades. Let's get back to

ships passing freely through the straits.

WATSON: And let me ask about tolls, because we have reporting that Iran has been charging around $2 million a vessel to transit the strait. What is

your position on that measure?

DENHOLM: That is equally unacceptable to blockade. You know, it's extortion. And it's a really dangerous precedent. You have other narrow

waterways of the entrance to the Mediterranean, the English Channel, and people start charging everywhere.

And we need to reestablish the whole principle of freedom of navigation. That is an international waterway. Ships can pass freely.

WATSON: I've heard the Singaporean government say they oppose this because the Strait of Malacca is a choke point and they don't -- they themselves

don't want to charge money.

DENHOLM: Absolutely. They -- we don't want people jumping on this bandwagon. It's a very dangerous bandwagon and could hugely impact on world

trade. And world trade is so important to the world economy.

WATSON: And let me ask you about that. I think many of our viewers don't typically see the kind of ships that that are out on the world's oceans and

what they move around and things like that. This is not just abstract. We have warnings that in just the Asia pacific region alone, that this could

cost from $98 billion to almost $300 billion, the cost of this disruption.

What are you seeing in in the shipping industry? How is that ultimately going to hit consumers around the world? The last six weeks of disruption,

and if it continues?

DENHOLM: Well, if it continues, we're going to have a real problem. Fuel prices are already high. It's going to get worse. We're going to have

shortages of petrol, but shortage of diesel, shortage of avgas, shortages of fertilizers.

There's a huge amount of commodities that flow through the Persian Gulf and that will drive inflation in the Western world, and the free world. And

that will probably drive recession. It's a really undesirable outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So, still to come, the husband of the American woman who allegedly went overboard, tells us in his words, what happened in the Bahamas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:09]

FOSTER: We have new details about an American woman who went missing in the Bahamas. CNN has obtained an audio recording in which the husband,

Brian Hooker, details how his wife Lynette, went overboard and vanished into the waters on April 5th. Hooker was arrested last week in his wife's

disappearance. He was later released on Monday without charges.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us now with more.

So whats the story, Dianne?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Max, Brian Hooker didn't answer questions from reporters when he left the police

station last night, but he did sit down with several media outlets this morning. And the 58-year-old American told CBS that now that he is out and

is not charged, his main focus is finding his wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN HOOKER, HUSBAND OF MISSING WOMAN: I won't be able to stop looking.

INTERVIEWER: You want to keep looking for Lynette?

HOOKER: I'm going to need somebody with more authority to tell me to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: So he was taken into custody by Bahamian authorities on Wednesday in connection with the disappearance of his wife, Lynette Hooker.

He told police that she had fallen over the overboard, their eight-foot hard bottom dinghy, in rough water more than a week ago. Again, he was not

charged with anything, though he was questioned multiple times during the five days that he was detained.

Now, after he was released, I reached out to Lynette's daughter, who has been just desperate for information throughout this ordeal here in the

United States. And she told me, quote, "as long as there has been a thorough investigation into all the facts, then ill have to live with the

fact that it's an accident. But I don't think this is the end.

She said all she wants is truth and closure. She's headed to the Bahamas a little bit later this week.

But Lynette's family has questioned Brian's original story the whole time, Max. They basically said it doesn't really add up. The couples been married

for about 25 years, but they say that they had an often turbulent relationship.

Now, Brian, through his attorney, has denied allegations of domestic abuse and violence that came from Lynette's family. But they also point out that

they were experienced swimmers and sailors. They documented their journey on social media, all these adventures on their sailboat and their sailing

yacht.

He said that they left about 7:30 p.m. for that sailing yacht on that dinghy off of Elbow Cay, and that they got into rough waters. Lynette

bounced overboard and she wasn't wearing a personal flotation device, and she had the kill switch, which caused the dinghy to lose power. Now he lost

sight of Lynette, he said, she might have been swimming toward their boat. He told a friend in a recorded phone call. But he says that he then tried

to paddle and he drifted for, it appears, about eight hours. Just a few miles across the water to Marsh Harbor. That's where he washed up. And

around 4:00 a.m. on Easter Sunday, reported his wife missing.

Now, police in the Bahamas are asking anybody who has any kind of information about what may have happened to Lynette on the night of April

4th to please reach out to authorities. The U.S. Coast Guard also has an ongoing criminal investigation.

And, Max, above all else, Lynette Hooker is still missing and her daughter wants that to sort of be what people think of right away. Shes had a very

confusing ten days here. Her stepfathers been in custody. She isn't sure what to think about, but she said more than anything, as Brian is now

saying as well, they just want Lynette to be found.

FOSTER: Yeah, of course.

Dianne, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, still to come, a new trial underway into the death of football legend Diego Maradona. We'll take you to Argentina, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:47]

FOSTER: A new trial over the death of Argentinian footballer Diego Maradona is getting underway today. Seven members of his medical team are

facing charges once again.

CNN's Cecilia Dominguez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CECILIA DOMINGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The world was watching as the trial over the death of football icon Diego Armando Maradona unfolded. But a

scandal stopped it in its tracks.

Now, almost a year later, a new trial is about to begin here in the San Isidro courts, aiming to determine who should be held responsible for

Maradona's death

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): There are too many people involved in a conspiracy for someone to end up losing their life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): We hope justice will be served.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (translated): We want to know what happened to my brother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (translated): We're very anxious for this to be over and for everyone who must pay to be held accountable.

DOMINGUEZ (voice-over): In the nearly three months the first trial lasted, there were 21 hearings, more than 40 witnesses and seven medical

professionals on trial. The court reviewed photos and videos as evidence. There was an arrest for perjury, requests for searches, and even a one week

suspension. In the end, one of the judges was removed and the trial was declared invalid.

May 15th marked the beginning of the end. Judge Juliet Makintach was accused of lacking impartiality and of allowing people close to her to film

a documentary during court hearings. A request was filed to remove her. She denied the allegations, but the court suspended the trial for a week.

On may 29th, the trial was nullified.

VERONICA OJEDA, MARADONA'S FORMER PARTNER (translated): For five years we've been fighting. We've been in this trial for two months, and now all

this scandal. Honestly, Diego didn't deserve this.

COSME IRIBARREN, PROSECUTOR (translated): Unfortunately, today is a very sad day for everyone. We never wanted to reach this point, but we had no

other option than to make the request we filed on Tuesday. The truth is, we will have to start over.

DOMINGUEZ (voice-over): More than five years after Maradona's death from heart failure on November 25th, 2020, while under home hospitalization in a

private neighborhood in Tigre, Buenos Aires, a new court will hear testimony from around 100 witnesses, seven medical professionals are once

again facing charges of simple homicide. All remain free and deny any wrongdoing.

DOMINGUEZ: After the collapse of the first trial. This new process will be watched even more closely, not only because of its global impact, but also

for the chance to finally shed light on one of the most controversial deaths in the world of sport.

Cecilia Dominguez, CNN, Buenos Aires.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Finally, tonight, the inductees for the 2026 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame have been announced. Amongst those being honored this year are singers

Billy Idol, Sade, Luther Vandross, Phil Collins, bands being inducted include Oasis, Iron Maiden and Wu-Tang Clan.

Now, early influencer awards include Celia Cruz, Gram Parsons and Queen Latifah. The ceremony will be held November the 14th in L.A. It will air

later in December.

I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW. Stay with CNN.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS