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What We Know with Max Foster

Trump Escalates Threats To Target Iranian Infrastructure; Trump Attends Dignified Transfer Of Four Fallen Soldiers; Trump Approves Civilian Nuclear Deal With Saudi Arabia; Mamdani Says NYC Lacks Authority To Arrest Netanyahu; Maduro Appears In U.S. Court As Trial Date Set For June 2027; Zelenskyy Picks New Top Commander For Ukraine's Military. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 22, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:27]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: U.S. President Donald Trump escalates his threats against Iran.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Trump threatening to target key civilian infrastructure in Iran amid the struggle over the Strait of Hormuz. On social media, the president vowed

that the United States will bomb and destroy one bridge or power plant anytime Iran fires on ships in the Strait. He also had this warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're going to pay a big price. They're getting -- they're being decimated. Nobody wants Iran to

have a nuclear weapon. Do you want Iran to have a nuclear weapon? Do you think it's good?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, the U.S. and Iran have traded strikes for 11 straight days now. The Iranian Health Ministry says at least 53 people have been killed

in the last two weeks.

President Trump today honored four fallen U.S. service members killed in Jordan and Iraq by Iranian attacks. He attended the dignified transfer of

their remains after meeting privately with the soldiers' families. A total of 18 U.S. troops have died in the war with Iran.

Betsy Klein is with us from the White House.

So, a very clear message coming from Donald Trump today, a like for like in terms of attacks. That's the way he's pitching it.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, Max, that very solemn moment as President Trump observed the dignified transfer of those four

fallen U.S. service members, really underscoring this human toll that this U.S. war with Iran has taken, and it is increasingly unpopular with the

American public. Eighteen U.S. service members have died since this conflict began back in February. That includes four of those service

members killed over the weekend.

And that is the first time that there have been deaths since that ceasefire deal fell apart and the fighting has really escalated. The president

honoring the service and sacrifice of those four, including First Lieutenant Tyler Feehan, Sergeant Michael Swinton, Sergeant Angel

Ramperstad, and Private Isabella Gonzales.

This is the third time in this conflict that President Trump has attended a dignified transfer and spent time behind closed doors with their family

members, putting on that consoler in chief hat. As he has said, this is one of the toughest things that he has to do as commander-in-chief.

But there is both a human cost here and a financial cost. Trump administration officials said yesterday that they have spent $37.5 billion

on this war so far. are requesting now an additional $67 billion in government taxpayer dollars. And this comes, as you mentioned, this

particularly violent moment for this conflict, the U.S. launching an 11th consecutive day of strikes yesterday. And the president is weighing next

steps, the possibility of a diplomatic off ramp, but also issuing this new warning in a post to social media. The president saying, quote, "From this

point forward, any time the Islamic Republic of Iran shoots at a ship in the Strait of Hormuz, whether it be by missile, rocket, drone, or any other

device or weapon, the United States will bomb or -- and destroy one bridge or power plant, including those located next to or in the capital city of

Tehran."

So clearly, showing no signs of de-escalation. And this war, Max, is deeply unpopular. A new Washington Post/Ipsos poll out last week said that 68

percent of Americans think that this war is not worth fighting. The price of gas has ticked up over that psychological barrier of $4 a gallon. It's

now at $4.06 per gallon. And all of this weighing on the president as he plots a path forward with less than four months until those midterm

elections, Max.

FOSTER: OK, Betsy Klein, appreciate that update. Thank you so much.

U.S. officials say President Trump has also signed off on a landmark nuclear agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia. The 30-year

deal could allow the Saudis to enrich uranium for civilian energy purposes, such as data centers, but it's fueling concerns that the kingdom may

eventually have the capability to produce nuclear weapons.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Jerusalem.

Obviously, it's the idea of nuclear weapons that's raised concern here in terms of non-proliferation, but this would primarily be for energy purposes

initially, Nic, I understand.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What makes this deal different? And there's a deal that the United States, for example, had with

the UAE in 2009, a nuclear civilian energy program there that was sort of described as the gold standard.

[15:05:09]

The enriched uranium is not enriched, in that case, in the UAE, which is -- that style has become the norm for countries moving into nuclear power.

They tend not to be enriching the uranium themselves. The difference for Saudi Arabia is, it appears it would be allowed to enrich the uranium

itself.

Another part of that gold standard deal that the UAE and so many other countries have is that there would be careful oversight by the

International Atomic Energy Agency. Additional protocols, as the term is known, would allow those inspectors, international inspectors, to go and

visit sites. Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be subject to those same additional protocols and scrutiny. In some ways, this sounds exactly like

the sort of deal that Iran would be pushing for, where it wouldn't have -- where it would be able to do its own enrichment and wouldn't have stringent

oversight.

Saudi Arabia, and I think if we take a big step back here, Saudi Arabia has a military treaty, a pact with Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

Saudi Arabia is widely understood in the region to have helped fund Pakistan's nuclear program. And it's widely believed that if Saudi Arabia

felt it needed to call on nuclear weapons to defend itself, it could call on its treaty partner, Pakistan.

We don't know all the terms of the deal that the White House has agreed with Saudi Arabia at the moment, but it's these points, the enriching

uranium themselves and the less stringent oversights that's giving rise to concern, particularly here in Israel, where it was widely seen under

President Biden that Saudi Arabia would get a civilian nuclear program as part of its normalization with Israel.

Well, of course, the Gaza Hamas attacks, Israel's response following that has put Saudi Arabia in a position where it won't normalize with Israel

until Israel accepts and recognizes. a Palestinian state. So, from Israel's perspective, this puts in the position of having a neighbor, another

neighbor, with the potential for nuclear weapons, and also it puts criticism on Prime Minister Netanyahu for his relationship with President

Trump that would have allowed this to happen.

So, yes, it raises a lot of concerns. Maybe not all of them are justified at this stage until we hear what the White House has to say about this

deal.

FOSTER: Nic Robertson in Jerusalem, thank you so much.

New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani walking back on a campaign threat to have Israel's prime minister arrested if he steps foot in his city. The

International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu in 2024, accusing him of war crimes. Mamdani says his office has

reviewed all of its options and cannot legally execute that warrant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal, the architect of a horrific genocide against the Palestinian people. He is

responsible for the killing of more than 73,000 people. It is clear that we do not have the independent legal authority to enforce this warrant. The

federal government, however, does, and I call on them to join the ICC and execute this warrant. And I want to be equally clear: Benjamin Netanyahu is

not welcome in New York City.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The U.S. isn't actually a member of the ICC, and President Donald Trump has made clear that Mr. Netanyahu will not be arrested in any way,

shape, or form. Israel's prime minister is expected to return the U.N. General Assembly in New York in September.

Israel's ambassador to the UN says Mamdani is the one who should be arrested. Danny Danon said the mayor was elected to serve New Yorkers, not,

quotes, "Hamas propaganda".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We know it will happen. Prime Minister Netanyahu will come to the U.N., will speak in the General

Assembly, will defend our country. And if you want to arrest someone, I think we should arrest Mayor Mamdani, because he continues to incite

against Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: We're joined now by CNN contributor Lulu Garcia-Navarro. She's a "New York Times" journalist, host of "The Interview".

Thank you so much for joining us, Lulu. A lot of this latest round of discussion started with a "New York Times" interview, didn't it, with

Mamdani?

What do you think he's trying to achieve here, knowing that he's not actually going to be able to follow it through?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, I sat down with Mayor Mamdani, and as you noted, his comments to me are what kicked this off.

[15:10:01]

He's been very clear that he is exceedingly invested in shifting specifically the left's position on Israel, and specifically on what

happened during the Gaza war. And so that was part of his pitch to New Yorkers when he ran for mayor. He promised to enforce this ICC warrant, of

course, as you noted.

It really has no legal basis. The United States is not a signatory to the ICC. So, in many ways it was sort of an empty threat when he made the

promise. And then when asked once he was mayor what he was going to do about it, he sort of fudged and said that he was looking into it, he was

discussing it with lawyers. And as many people pointed out on CNN's air and elsewhere, that was really never going to happen.

So, he was kind of forced into making this announcement, and it has had very predictable responses from the Israelis and from the United States

government, which is, of course, run by the Trump administration, who are competitors of the Democratic Party to which Mr. Mamdani belongs.

FOSTER: So as part of his campaign promise, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think New York has the largest Jewish population in America and

one of the largest in the world outside Israel. So how did that work during the election? Were some of them supportive of this idea? I mean, how was

that vote playing into this?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, this has been incredibly divisive, and there's no question about this. It has split the Jewish community. It has split the

Democratic Party. And there is an active discussion going on right now what the position should be in the face of what actually, at this point, the

majority of Democrats view as a genocide in Gaza committed by the Netanyahu administration.

And so, Mr. Mamdani is speaking in some ways to his base, but he is also trying to push the Democratic Party. to take a more active position on

this. And I think that that is where that speech comes in, because that speech is not just a speech to the international community, to the

Israelis. It is really a speech to the Democratic base and the Democratic Party writ large, who he wants to, you know, kind of force them into taking

a stronger position vis-a-vis Israel.

And so, when it comes to the Jewish community themselves -- I mean, polling shows that actually Mamdani is more popular among American Jews than Bibi

Netanyahu of Israel, which just goes to show you how far the Israeli government has fallen in public opinion in the United States. But in New

York itself, this has been incredibly divisive. We saw comments from the Wiesenthal Center. We saw comments from other Jewish civic groups and

activist groups really condemning Mr. Mamdani's comments, Mayor Mamdani's comments, calling them divisive, calling them anti-Semitic, something that

I will say he denies.

FOSTER: Yeah, and there's something you make a really good point there about Jewish communities around the world, many of which don't support the

Israeli government. We link them too closely, don't we? I think that's certainly true of many of the Jewish community in London, many of them very

anti-Netanyahu.

But it's fascinating to see the mayor rise up as this counterweight to Trump. And I'm not just talking about in America, but globally. Very

quickly, he's gained this status where he's gaining so much global support. I mean, is that something that you've seen amongst your audience as well,

this rise of this global figure that came out of nowhere.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, I mean, he really did sort of come out of almost nowhere. He was just, you know, a very minor political figure in New York

City, and he ran this incredible campaign which really captured the imagination of New Yorkers, where he was very focused on affordability. And

this issue he's always been very clear about. I mean, when he spoke to me, he spoke about moral clarity. that this is a position that he has always

held in his youth. He was a part of an activist organization, a pro- Palestinian activist organization. And so, this is consistent with his worldview. and the issues that he cares about.

He is now trying to make those issues into core issues for the Democratic Party. And that is where we face some difficulties here in the United

States, because it is a divisive issue. There is no consensus on Israel. There is no consensus over what happened to the Palestinians.

There is a lot of sympathy towards the Palestinians. There's a lot of horror over October 7th and what happened subsequently in the Gaza war, but

it is still an issue that is incredibly divisive, not only here but around the world.

[15:15:07]

And Mamdani has kind of -- is almost in some ways speaking the unspeakable. It has been a taboo in American politics to speak out against the Israeli

government, to speak out against Israel properly. And he is really taking those positions very vocally, very strongly, and he's found a lot of

support.

FOSTER: Yeah, it's been fascinating to see him lean into it.

Lulu Garcia Navarro, as ever, thank you so much for joining us today.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You're welcome.

FOSTER: Now, a date has been set for the criminal trial against former Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores. Earlier in

New York, federal prosecutors and attorneys for the Maduros agreed to June 2027 as a start date. Now, the couple have pleaded not guilty to several

gun and drug charges. They were captured in Caracas in January, flown to the U.S. to face prosecution.

Let's go straight to Maria Santana.

I believe you were in court, weren't you, Maria? What was the atmosphere like?

MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh yeah, Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, entered the courtroom at about noon today and they both

looked very relaxed. Maduro's physical appearance. You know, he looked well. He was sporting what seemed to be a fresh haircut, a very trimmed

mustache. He was speaking with his attorneys at one point, joking with them.

He always makes it a point to say hello or at least acknowledge the public in the courtroom. So, he did that as he came in and he left. But he did

learn today that his trial and that of his wife, Cilia Flores, will start on June 1st, 2027. Now this was a very brief hearing, only about 13 minutes

that was solely focused on establishing that pretrial schedule. Maduro's attorneys indicated that in the next few months, they plan on filing

several motions and chief among them will be a sovereign immunity challenge. They argue that Maduro cannot be processed in U.S. courts

because he was effectively kidnapped from Caracas by U.S. forces while he was the legitimate head of state of Venezuela.

Of course, the U.S. government, they reject those arguments that they do not recognize Maduro as the legitimate president of Venezuela, not now and

not when he was captured, but other than that, it was very brief. Like I said, he was in very good spirits. His wife also looked well.

They are both being held at a federal prison in Brooklyn and will remain there while they await their trial -- Max.

FOSTER: Maria, appreciate the update. Thank you so much. That trial next year, then.

Now, coming up, a change at the top. The Ukrainian military has a new commander-in-chief. We'll tell you what it means for the men on the

battlefield when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:21:05]

FOSTER: There's a new man in charge of Ukraine's military, Mykhailo Drapatyi, was named as the new commander-in-chief. The 43-year-old is seen

as a radical departure from his older predecessor, Oleksandr Syrski. He was ousted after days of protests in Kyiv. Protesters demanded new leadership

as Ukraine embraces drones and robots and shifts its military focus from men to machines.

Joining us from Kyiv is Ukraine's former deputy minister of defense, Alina Frolova.

Thank you so much for joining us, because we're fascinated by why this general had to leave in the first place, because President Zelenskyy has

actually heaped praise on him. So why was he fired, do you think?

ALINA FROLOVA, FORMER UKRAINIAN DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENSE: Well, the Ukraine is like a very young and vibrant democracy and people means a lot.

And this is in our national tradition that the people raise their voice if they do not consider some kind of policy, right? Ukraine is now very

involved in war, of course, because many of us are on service in army and there are a lot of civilians who join the armed forces and almost every

family, I would say every family in Ukraine is affected by the war or we have relatives, kids, husbands, daughters in armed forces or we are

affected as a civilians by war.

That's why so many intention is paid by publics to these changes, and that's why there was a rise of the voice for changing the military command,

because people feel that we need some kind of new asymmetric approaches, and in general mind, Drapatyi is more relevant to that position than

Syrskyi. Of course, we cannot make this decision, but it was a pressure for changes. more than for some person and president made his decision like

hearing these voices.

FOSTER: So you're saying it was a response to public pressure as opposed to an alternative argument is that Syrskyi was starting to become a

political threat to Zelenskyy?

FROLOVA: No, I don't think that Syrskyi became a political threat. Rather, he started to accumulate some kind of negative effect of the public

pressure. And Syrskyi, at my opinion, is like a great general with great experience in war. However, probably the current stage of war really

requires some kind of new approaches. And as I said, that many people who've been always civilian now joined the army, and they have some kind of

other vision of technological war. And the party felt more relevant to these trends.

FOSTER: How much longer do you think Zelenskyy can go without having an election? Obviously, It's normal not to have elections during wartime. But

there are increasing questions that this is turning -- you know, Ukraine is turning into an autocracy. As the years go on, one man in charge, anyone

that threatens him somehow ends up out of his circle.

You know, whether or not that's true or not, that's beginning to become a narrative, and it's not good for the president, is it, to have that

narrative?

FROLOVA: Well, I that Ukraine became an autocracy and the latest events are demonstrating that that. Well, I became an autocracy and the latest

events are demonstrating that that if public is not agreed with the politics of the president or some government, people are going on the

streets and they clearly declared their vision.

And in most cases, not in most -- but in like all cases, the government had to follow the public's opinion, which says that we are democratic states,

like a very democratic state. However, you are right that the discussion about the election is here. Ukrainian society still considers that there is

no time for elections now, because for all those who live in Ukraine, that's obvious that, first of all, we cannot guarantee the security of

election.

The second, we cannot guarantee that millions of people who join the armed forces and other defense forces can relatively participate in these

elections. That's why I don't think that before the war will come to some calming stage, and where we at least can have like an involvement of those

people who are on the front line and organize some kind of relevant elections, that elections will take place, I mean, the presidential

elections.

FOSTER: Okay, Alina Frolova joining us from Kyiv.

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: Yes.

Okay, thank you so much, Alina, for joining us today. Big talking point in Ukraine, of course.

Now, French authorities are investigating the death of a professional model scout who introduced multiple young women to Jeffrey Epstein. Daniel Siad

was mentioned in the Epstein Files some 2,000 times, and CNN had aired an exclusive interview with him just weeks ago. Melissa Bell is in Paris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A French model recruiter linked to Jeffrey Epstein has been found dead at his home in the

suburb of Cologne near Paris, according to prosecutors. Daniel Siad had been the subject of renewed scrutiny in the wake of the latest releases of

the Epstein files by the U.S. Department of Justice. For over a decade, he'd arranged for the late sex offender to meet several models.

CNN's Katie Polglase recently interviewed Siad, who said he'd had no reason to believe that two women he'd recommended to Epstein had been harmed by

him. even though those two women told CNN that they were indeed abused by Jeffrey Epstein.

DANIEL SIAD, MODEL RECRUITER: My work with him has been strictly professional. I never doubt that, because I never heard anything from

anyone introduced him who came back to me. that they had a bad situation with him.

BELL: Siad said he believed that Epstein was a casting director for Victoria's Secret and for a modeling agency. CNN has found no evidence to

support that claim.

SIAD: I didn't know a lot about him until when he comes to Paris, and I told you again, he said he passed his due to the government. So, for me,

he's free, man, he's clean. He was such a powerful person, and how can I not trust him?

BELL: Epstein ties to the modeling industry are part of ongoing investigations, including a criminal probe launched this year in Paris

involving Siad, according to the city's chief prosecutor.

Now, Siad's lawyer has pointed to the stress that the man was under due to the unbearable weighting, and I quote, the stigma cast upon him. Siad's

lawyer's statement also calling for respect for his loved ones as they mourn, adding that he died and was innocent.

Siad himself was also facing accusations of abuse. A model accused him of rape when she was working in France in 1990. Siad had also denied that

accusation.

His death certainly marks the latest macabre twist in the Epstein saga and a reminder of the ripple effects of the revelations from the Epstein files

and of the fact that they are far from over.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, an unprecedented moment in the history of artificial intelligence. We'll explain how an open A.I. model escaped its

test environment, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:31]

FOSTER: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says Iran is not serious about talks to bring the war to an end as Washington and Tehran once again trade

threats.

U.S. President Donald Trump posted this online message that the U.S. will bomb or destroy one bridge or power plant every time Iran targets a ship in

the Strait of Hormuz. In turn, a senior Iranian official warned that Tehran will consider striking infrastructure across the region. Iran's foreign

ministry is accusing the U.S. of using the suspected nuclear site, Pickaxe Mountain, as an excuse to launch more attacks. That's after President Trump

threatened a U.S. strike there pretty soon.

In an historic agreement sending reverberations across the Middle East, President Trump has approved a U.S. nuclear deal with Saudi Arabia. A U.S.

official tells CNN the 30-year agreement would allow the kingdom to enrich nuclear fuel for civilian reactors. In theory, that could at some point

lead to the production of nuclear weapons.

Now, the White House says it'll send the deal to Congress, where it'll likely face fierce pushback, especially from Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): We should never, ever do this. Why would we ever set up a situation which would be the likelihood of nuclear

proliferation? We've already got Iran with a -- an ability to enrich uranium to the point of being able to make a bomb. And we're going to turn

that over to Saudi Arabia.

No, we not. This is just terrible, terrible policy. We ought to be going in the other direction. And presumably that's why Trump was attacking Iran in

the first place was to stop them from being able to develop a nuclear weapon. Now we're going to go on the other hand, go the other side of the

Persian Gulf and have Saudi Arabia with the power to enriched uranium? Enriched uranium can be made into a nuclear weapon.

This is really, really bad, bad policy. Now, if you want to do an energy issue, that's another matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So what we want to know is, could Saudi Arabia soon develop a nuclear bomb?

Joining us now, James Acton. He's the co-director of the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

James, thank you so much for joining us.

It's just this idea, isn't it, that away from which country it is, another country being able to enrich uranium is very alarming for a generation

that's got used to the idea that we should be reducing the number of countries that can enrich uranium. Being able to enrich uranium is very

alarming for a generation that's got used to the idea that we should be reducing the number of countries that can enrich uranium.

[15:35:01]

JAMES ACTON, NUCLEAR POLICY PROGRAM CODIRECTOR, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: And that's been a long-standing tenet of U.S.

nonproliferation policy. The United States has worked extremely hard over the course of 50, 60 years to try to prevent other states from inquiring

enrichment technology. And that's because the same technology that can produce low enriched uranium for a reactor can produce highly enriched

uranium for a nuclear weapon.

So, in general, it's important to prevent the spread of this technology. And it's particularly important to prevent its spread to potential

proliferators. You know, senior Saudi officials have said very overtly, very explicitly, that if Iran gets the bomb, they will get the bomb too.

And this is the means for them to do so.

So I -- you know, I agree with Congressman Garamendi. I think this is just terrible policy.

FOSTER: And as I understand it, There's no plan for oversight here either.

ACTON: I don't think that's quite right. The specific issue is something called the Additional Protocol. This is a IAEA International Atomic Energy

Agency safeguards document that gives the agency particular rights to inspect undeclared sites.

Now, the reporting, and we haven't seen the U.S. agreement with Saudi Arabia yet. So, this is all a touch speculative right now. But the

reporting is that Saudi Arabia has refused to accept an additional protocol. Apparently, it has its normal safeguards agreement with the IAEA.

Apparently, it's agreeing to some kind of bilateral safeguards with the United States as well.

But, you know, the first thing is the additional protocol is really important, and I think it was It's a serious weakness that Saudi is not

accepting it. But even if Saudi had accepted the additional protocol, I still think enrichment in Saudi Arabia would be a really bad idea.

FOSTER: I mean, the question we were asking, could Saudi Arabia soon develop a nuclear bomb? What's your answer to that? Because obviously,

they've liaised very closely with Pakistan about nuclear. So they've got the knowledge there, presumably.

ACTON: We don't know how much knowledge, if any, Pakistan has transferred to Saudi Arabia. But the big picture is once Saudi has enrichment

technology, if indeed it ultimately gets that technology, it will have the single most important technology for building nuclear weapons. You know,

with an enrichment plant that's sized for a commercial reactor, you can produce enough highly enriched geranium for a nuclear weapon within days,

frankly. The scale of enrichment plant that you need for nuclear weapons is actually much smaller than the scale that you need for a bomb.

So, Saudi would have the ability to build the highly enriched uranium -- sorry, to manufacture the highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon very

quickly. There's a bunch of other activities you have to do to build a bomb. You know, realistically, one might be looking at a year or two after

Saudi has enrichment technology. But this would be a key enabler. It's the most important enabling technology on the way to the bomb.

FOSTER: James Acton, it's a big moment, isn't it, in that long-term story about nuclear proliferation. Thank you for joining us.

Now, it's the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks are flat. The Dow barely moving today as investors wait for big tech companies, Alphabet

and Tesla, to report their results, which is later today.

This is our Business Breakout.

There's a new blockade threatening ships in the Middle East. Four oil tankers in the Red Sea have been forced to turn back as Houthi rebels from

Yemen try to block off a major waterway. The Bab al-Mandeb strait has become a key alternative to the strait of four news for ships. One analyst

says a full blockade could send oil prices above $100 a barrel.

The U.S. Trade Representative says the Trump administration will not stop using tariffs as part of its trade policy. That's the word from Jamieson

Greer during a Senate hearing today. He adds that new tariffs on some Brazilian goods came into effect today. He also said negotiations to

continue with both Mexico and Canada over the North American trade deal that President Trump renegotiated in his first term.

Samsung has unveiled three new foldable phones ahead of Apple releasing its own foldable iPhones in September. The cheapest of the three models starts

at $1,200. Samsung is expected to be the market leader in foldable phones this year, even after Apple releases its own model.

Now, the head of OpenAI calls it an unprecedented moment in the history of artificial intelligence. An A.I. model, being securely tested without

internet, managed to escape its test environment, then break into the servers of a totally different company. OpenAI says it was testing how good

its new models were at hacking.

Our A.I. correspondent, Hadas Gold, is in New York.

Hadas, I really feel this is one of the big stories of our time, because when I posted about this, one of the most common comments was the rise of

the machines. It's this idea that the creators of some of these agents might not be able to control them. That's utterly frightening.

HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: It does sound like the basis of a science fiction movie, but this is something that A.I. and cybersecurity

experts have warned about for some time. I will walk you through sort of exactly what happened here so we can understand just how incredible this

breach was.

So, what happened was OpenAI was testing some of its model on their offensive cybersecurity capabilities. As you said, essentially, could they

hack a system? And you can understand why they'd want to be able to test out these models to see what are they actually capable of. They removed

some of the model safeguards, but they placed it in what's known as a sandbox. And this is supposed to be a contained testing environment similar

to how a lab might test some viruses.

But then the model, it was given the cybersecurity test, and on its own, without any human intervention, it hacked OpenAI's own internal systems to

get access to the Internet, which it wasn't supposed to have access to the open Internet. It did have some access to be able to download some software

packages, but it used that little narrow access point to try and gain access to the open Internet.

And then on its own, it decided that Hugging Face, which is a popular repository for open source A.I. models and data sets, was going to have the

answer to the cybersecurity test and hacked into Hugging Face's own systems. Now, it was actually Hugging Face who first noticed the hack and

actually notified law enforcement to say, hey, we've been hacked. They didn't know who it was at first.

And then they talked to OpenAI. OpenAI talked to them and they figured out this was actually a test case from OpenAI and that they're working together

now to try and solve this.

Now, OpenAI has said in a statement, we consider this incident to be an unprecedented cyber incident involving state-of-the-art cyber capabilities

and are responding accordingly. They say they're sharing these preliminary findings to help defenders understand what is going on.

Because, Max, just imagine what would happen if instead of them testing out, you know, a cybersecurity test, they were testing out, you know, how

strong are a bank's defenses? And then an agent escaped this testing environment and actually hacked into a bank or some other critical

infrastructure or critical utility that we all need to use.

So, this has really raised the alarm amongst the cybersecurity and A.I. community that has long warned about what these A.I. agents could be

capable of. Now we're actually seeing this in real life for the first time, and I think it's only going to further raise the need for, you know, not

only the industry to get together and raise the defenses, but also for regulation over these new models down to even, you know, how are they

examined and tested?

Very similarly, really, when you think about it to how do we test new viruses that you know you don't want a virus to escape a lab and cause a

pandemic same way that you don't want necessarily an A.I. agent to escape its testing environment and start hacking. into systems.

FOSTER: Yeah, I think labs are a bit more regulated as well, Hadas. Thank you so much.

Now, still to come tonight, India's government is under growing pressure as thousands of young demonstrators keep filling the streets of the capital.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:45]

FOSTER: In the world's biggest democracy, young protesters are demanding reform from Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government. They say the

national exam system cheats millions out of opportunities. The cockroach movement, which started online as a joke, is now refusing to back down. For

days, thousands have taken to the streets of New Delhi, sometimes clashing with police.

CNN's Rhea Mogul brings us this update from the protests.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RHEA MOGUL, CNN SOUTH ASIA REPORTER: Well, the mood in Delhi right now is definitely one of anger, but it's also one of determination. Thousands of

protesters have gathered and reclaimed their main protest site in the heart of New Delhi after police dismantled it earlier this week. And many of them

say that they're not going to leave until India's education minister resigns.

Now, this defiance comes after clashes between police and protesters. that ended in a crackdown on protesters. And many protesters that we've spoken

to on the ground in Delhi say that that crackdown has only intensified their resolve, and it's broadened their support as well.

Now, just yesterday, the political opposition in India capitalized on that anger, and they staged a sit-in protest outside Indian Prime Minister

Narendra Modi's residence. The leader of the opposition, Rahul Gandhi, said that he wanted Modi to resign, and he was briefly detained by police during

that sit-in.

This started off as an online movement, but it's really grown into a much bigger political story. Prime Minister Modi hasn't directly responded to

the protesters, but yesterday he did send a message via a senior official from his party. And that official said that Modi is and his administration

is determined to stop paper leaks from happening, and he reassured the Indian youth that they were important to his administration.

Now, it's very important to note that Modi is a leader who doesn't typically respond to criticism, and he doesn't typically respond to wide-

scale protest movements. He's weathered a lot of, you know, storms during his 12 years in power. And that's just sort of his style.

But what analysts say and they're watching this very closely is that Modi, Khan, or any Indian government, for that matter, can't afford to lose the

support of the young people in India, because they're one of the largest young populations in the entire world, and they're such an important

political force for the country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: CNN's Rhea Mogul reporting for us there.

Now, in Chile, at least 30 people have been killed, and more than 100,000 isolated after massive flooding. The central and southern regions of the

country were inundated by heavy rain, damaging homes and roads. On Tuesday, at least 87,000 customers were without electricity. President Jose Antonio

Kast says the top priority is delivering food, drinking water, and emergency aid to the hardest-hit areas.

Still to come, seven decades after this plane vanished, it's been found by an underwater drone. Up next, what it took to find it at the bottom of the

ocean.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:22]

FOSTER: It's been 74 years since a Pan Am flight crashed off Puerto Rico in a disaster that would change the future of airline safety. And now, the

resting place of the Clipper Endeavor has finally been found. Search teams using sonar and an underwater drone located the wreckage in the deep waters

of Puerto Rico's northern coast.

Our Tom Foreman has details on the discovery and how the 1952 crash made modern air travel safer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a plane. Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a plane.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the search team, the discovery of the lost Pan Am plane is a sensation. After 74 years in the

sand and salt water, many thought this Douglas DC-4 would never be seen again. But there it is, ghostly images of the aluminum body, the wings,

even the logo, found after years of tireless work by the Air Sea Heritage Foundation, the Discovery Channel, and Deep Sea Vision, which brought a

highly advanced underwater drone.

JOSH GATES, HOST, "EXPEDITION UNKNOWN": And that sonar vehicle, which is autonomous, went down to almost 2,000 feet below the surface, and when we

first saw the sonar image, and saw the outline of that plane, it just took our breath away.

ANNOUNCER: Fly first class or tourists on Pan Am's radar-equipped Super 7 Clippers.

FOREMAN (voice-over): In the decade after World War II, as civilian air traffic boomed, Pan Am was a global leader. The Clipper Endeavor promised a

then-quick eight-hour trip from Puerto Rico to New York City on Good Friday, 1952.

But shortly after takeoff, two of Endeavor's four engines failed, along with efforts to turn back. The old accident report says all aboard survived

the violent, watery impact, but passengers were not told where life jackets were located or instructed in their use prior to ditching. Confusion over

life rafts and escape exits followed as the plane sank in three minutes. Seventeen people survived amid pitching seas and swirling sharks, 52 did

not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome aboard.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But the flight arguably has saved many, many lives since because it directly led to the creation of regulations requiring

passenger safety briefings before every takeoff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locate the exit nearest to you.

FOREMAN (voice-over): A legacy for the living from dozens who were lost for so long and whose resting place now has been found.

GATES: This flight and this tragic accident really changed aviation -- fundamentally changed it forever. And we're all safer because of this

accident. And so I think we owe them a real debt of remembrance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:55:00]

FOREMAN: Of course, Discovery and CNN are owned by the same company, and Discovery plans to have a special show about all of this later in the year.

What they do not plan to do is in any way disturb the wreckage or the remains of these folks who lost their lives so tragically so many years

ago.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

FOSTER: In Paris, a gallery at the Louvre Museum has reopened nine months after France's crown jewels were stolen in that shocking heist. The thieves

are disguised as construction workers. There were some arrests, but the jewels haven't been recovered. Security at the museum has been boosted with

the addition of new surveillance cameras.

And here's something that might make you feel a little bit old. Prince George, officially now a teenager, 13 today. To celebrate George's parents,

the Prince and Princess of Wales posted this picture of the prince on social media. Happy birthday to the young royal.

I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW. Do stay with CNN.

END

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